Ex-Premie Forum 7 Archive
From: Nov 07, 2001 To: Nov 13, 2001 Page: 5 of: 5


__ AJW -:- The laugh of liberation. -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:31:13 (EST)
__ __ JHB -:- Anth, do you have the power? -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:36:52 (EST)
__ __ __ AJW -:- Alas John, No. -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:50:09 (EST)
__ __ Pat:C) -:- If you hear laugh of liberation.... -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:34:49 (EST)
__ __ __ JHB -:- Ah, my mistake! -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:37:38 (EST)
__ __ __ __ AJW -:- Yes, Thanks Pat. -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:53:05 (EST)

AJW -:- Latvian Flower Power. (ot) -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 14:45:20 (EST)
__ such -:- Latvian Flower Power. (ot) [nt] -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 17:40:37 (EST)
__ JHB -:- Obviously Insane? -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:54:31 (EST)
__ __ AJW -:- The Latvian Connection. -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:05:36 (EST)
__ Sir Dave -:- See also -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:53:23 (EST)

gerry -:- Hey Nottingham Bunnie -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 13:22:24 (EST)
__ Nottingham Bunny -:- Re: Hey Nottingham Bunnie -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 14:34:59 (EST)
__ __ AJW -:- Hey Nottingham Bunnie -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 14:47:50 (EST)
__ __ __ Nottingham Bunnie -:- Hi Anth -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:04:48 (EST)
__ __ __ __ AJW -:- Re: Hi Bunny. -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:10:23 (EST)
__ __ cq -:- I think Gerry thought it was 16mm -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 14:44:11 (EST)
__ __ __ Nottingham Bunny -:- Re: I think Gerry thought it was 16mm -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:13:47 (EST)
__ __ __ __ cq -:- sounds a great idea. But where? -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 07:28:56 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ magiclara -:- Re: sounds a great idea. But where? -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 07:36:49 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- Curry in Bradford? You might be right -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 12:45:01 (EST)

Joe -:- Maharaji Cult Attack Websites -- Day 5 -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 12:53:48 (EST)
__ AJW -:- The new websites. -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:27:16 (EST)
__ __ Richard -:- Not to worry Anth -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:36:35 (EST)
__ __ __ AJW -:- Aaaaagh. No not that. -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:12:55 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Richard -:- Just kidding, Anth -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 21:57:08 (EST)

cq -:- Meditation under the microscope -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 12:49:19 (EST)
__ Jerry -:- Fascinating stuff, eh? -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 21:42:10 (EST)
__ __ cq -:- Re: Fascinating stuff, eh? -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 10:47:31 (EST)
__ AJW -:- Meditation makes you go blind. -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:44:30 (EST)
__ __ cq -:- where's your glasses you say? -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 10:44:33 (EST)

Jean-Michel -:- Every detail on the CREAM conspiracy -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 12:37:18 (EST)
__ david m -:- Re: Every detail on the CREAM conspiracy -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 13:19:56 (EST)
__ __ david m -:- Pie in the eye detroit style -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 13:26:18 (EST)

Vicki -:- Newly exiting premies -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 12:36:17 (EST)
__ Moley -:- Re: Newly exiting premies -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 23:20:31 (EST)
__ Peter Howie -:- Re: AND -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 22:47:59 (EST)
__ AJW -:- Come on in the water's lovely. -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:01:21 (EST)
__ __ Vicki -:- Re: Come on in the water's lovely. -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 23:02:36 (EST)
__ __ __ Pat:C) -:- But, Vicki, you took to it like a duck to water -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 03:40:11 (EST)
__ Joe -:- Very True, Vicki -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 13:40:09 (EST)
__ __ Francesca :C) -:- Hate to be a devil's advocate but ... -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:41:59 (EST)
__ __ __ Joe -:- Other Names -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 17:36:55 (EST)
__ __ __ JHB -:- This is what happened on EPO -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:55:36 (EST)
__ Peg -:- Re: Newly exiting premies -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 12:56:06 (EST)
__ __ AJW -:- Different Forum. -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:06:37 (EST)
__ __ Chuck S. -:- It IS possible, Peg... -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 14:55:47 (EST)
__ __ Peg and Joe -:- Something between Recent Ex's and F7 ? -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 14:37:09 (EST)
__ __ __ Jim S -:- Re: Something between Recent Ex's and F7 ? -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 19:42:08 (EST)
__ __ __ Chuck S. -:- I think it's important to realise, too... -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:41:16 (EST)
__ __ __ Deborah -:- Agree with conditions -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:40:32 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Peg -:- Hi Deborah -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 19:38:41 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Hi Peg -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 20:47:08 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- That's a dynamite post, Deborah [nt] -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 03:44:21 (EST)
__ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Peg and Vicki -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 14:59:16 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Vicki -:- Re: Peg and Vicki -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 22:54:50 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Francesca :C) -:- **BEST, BEST, BEST of FORUM** READ THIS!! -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 15:32:57 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Thanks for that... -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 13:44:37 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Wonderful, heartfelt post -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 11:49:02 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Suedoula -:- Beautiful post, Vicki, thanks (nt) [nt] -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 09:24:30 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ KatieH -:- Great post, Vicki! **BEST of FORUM** -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 08:52:15 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Peg -:- Thanks Vicki -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 04:28:21 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Absolutely ***BEST OF FORUM***,Vicki -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 04:00:38 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Newly Exiting Premies... -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 11:58:58 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Tonette -:- Yes, Pat's link in the above post is hilarious -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 13:03:06 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- More great posts Cynthia and Tonette -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 13:24:52 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Doggie Darshan? Like in 'Deliverance'? Gross! [nt] -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 12:27:53 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- NoNoNo, Jim... -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 12:03:23 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Doggie Darshan? Like in 'Deliverance'? What? -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 13:40:31 (EST)

Jim -:- new email address (OT) -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 12:00:57 (EST)

JHB -:- John Macgregor's posts on EPO -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 11:46:14 (EST)
__ bill -:- A John Macgregor comment to consider -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:13:21 (EST)
__ __ Deborah -:- Good idea bill [nt] -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 22:41:27 (EST)
__ __ bill -:- Did anyone try to contact that India magazine? [nt] -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:14:36 (EST)
__ AJW -:- Other ideas. -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:14:21 (EST)
__ Deborah -:- link to Barry's cartoons [nt] -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 14:56:23 (EST)
__ hamzen -:- I think I might be falling in love with you jhb -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 12:31:20 (EST)
__ gerry -:- Oh this will be fun! -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 12:16:06 (EST)
__ __ Deborah -:- check email [nt] -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:29:15 (EST)

Inside Edition -:- EV Monitors - This is the LASTstraw -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 07:44:32 (EST)
__ AJW -:- Oh Ye of Little Faith. -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:31:45 (EST)
__ __ Pat:C) -:- Krishna said: ''Don't worry about killing them... -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 19:28:39 (EST)
__ __ __ AJW -:- LOL (nt) -:- Sun, Nov 11, 2001 at 07:53:15 (EST)
__ __ Inside Edition -:- Sorry Anth, I completely forgot... -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 18:36:24 (EST)
__ __ Nottingham Bunnie -:- shagging and eating lettuce? -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:27:29 (EST)
__ __ __ AJW -:- I was refering to Rabbits. -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 17:34:58 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Nottingham Bunny -:- Re: I was refering to Rabbits. -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 18:03:38 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Sorry Bunny. -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 06:05:24 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Nottingham Bunny -:- Hi Anth -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 08:03:13 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- ROTLFLOL! -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 11:56:24 (EST)
__ __ __ PatD -:- The wrong cult -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 17:00:43 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Nottingham Bunny -:- Re: The wrong cult -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 17:55:37 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Moley -:- Sanyasins I knew -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 23:32:20 (EST)
__ Zelda -:- rabbits vs guru -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:20:57 (EST)
__ __ Nottingham Bunny -:- Just like our own dear Royals and country toffs... -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:21:08 (EST)
__ __ __ Marianne -:- Hey Bunny -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 12:38:07 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Nottingham Bunny -:- Hey Marianne -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 08:16:29 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Oh now I know -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 14:26:53 (EST)
__ Nottingham Bunnie -:- Ditto NT -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 14:37:50 (EST)
__ Bugs Bunny -:- Listen up, Guru Elmer Fudge the Truth Ji -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 13:44:40 (EST)

Barry -:- Toon time! Have a laugh! -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 22:15:10 (EST)
__ hamzen -:- Have microshaft hired you Barry -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 04:15:48 (EST)
__ Deborah -:- And we could share... -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 22:30:49 (EST)
__ __ Barry -:- Hi Deb! -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 22:53:40 (EST)
__ Barry -:- Tell me if you see it?(nt) -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 22:18:53 (EST)

Joe -:- Maharaji Cult Attack Site Update -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 18:27:05 (EST)
__ Deborah -:- YES, MAHA and has stooped this Low -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 22:37:11 (EST)
__ hamzen -:- Isn't it about ego & humiliation? -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 19:16:42 (EST)
__ Isabella -:- Re: Maharaji Cult Attack Site Update -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 18:50:40 (EST)
__ __ The new kinder, gentler PatC -:- Thanks, Isabella -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 21:03:18 (EST)
__ __ Isabella -:- Sorry - Post did not go 1st time -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 18:52:34 (EST)
__ __ __ Deborah -:- Thank you so much Isabella -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 22:48:24 (EST)
__ __ __ Francesca -:- Thanks Isabella! :) [nt] -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 19:12:03 (EST)
__ __ __ Joe -:- Thank you Isabella -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 19:05:10 (EST)
__ __ __ __ dv -:- If m doesn't condone it then these alledged -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 22:48:21 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Exactly [nt] -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 22:50:38 (EST)
__ __ __ JHB -:- Isabella, a question -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 18:54:29 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Isabella -:- Re: Isabella, a question -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 19:02:01 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- Isabella, I did not attack you -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 19:26:37 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Isabella -:- It was a loaded question -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 20:31:29 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- It wasn't meant to be -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 08:16:06 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Vicki -:- Re: It wasn't meant to be -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 11:59:33 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Francesca :C) -:- Astute and very true, Vicki -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:51:32 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Re: Astute and very true, Vicki -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 19:46:43 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Ridiculous intellectual contortions? Mel? -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 20:41:25 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Isabella -:- Re: Ridiculous intellectual contortions? Mel? -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 21:09:05 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Prove it -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 21:24:53 (EST)
__ Francesca -:- Joe, that's 3 sites -- you forgot ... -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 18:42:57 (EST)
__ __ Joe -:- No, that one's down (nt) -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 19:00:06 (EST)
__ __ __ Francesca -:- No, it's up -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 19:08:58 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Joe -:- It's still only TWO -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 19:11:44 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Francesca -:- But one site has two URLS -- -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 19:14:12 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Thanks, that explains it. (nt) -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 19:15:40 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Wait a minute -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 19:13:21 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Francesca -:- Your guess is as good as mine -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 19:16:36 (EST)
__ New York Sleuth -:- Ira Glasser and Charles Glasser -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 18:32:55 (EST)

Michael McDonald -:- Response to Macgregor -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 17:19:43 (EST)
__ AJW -:- Hi Michael. -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:24:18 (EST)
__ AJW -:- FA, can you delete this post please. -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:17:32 (EST)
__ Deborah -:- Hi Michael -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 23:08:49 (EST)
__ __ Michael McDonald -:- Re: Hi Michael -:- Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 23:32:12 (EST)
__ __ __ Deborah -:- Michael, more clarification -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 00:16:34 (EST)
__ __ __ __ SC -:- Quote of the week folks -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 21:57:59 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- ***CULT HARRASSMENT*** -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 23:37:20 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ The Evil Scary Catweasell -:- More like PARANOIA -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 09:30:35 (EST)


Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:31:13 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: ****
Subject: The laugh of liberation.
Message:
Hahaha


---

That must be the laugh of liberation.

Well, you know what the Buddha said, 'If you hear the laugh of liberation on the internet, delete it.'

Anth, getting into his zenses.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:36:52 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Anth, do you have the power?
Message:
I always knew you were a megalomaniac. Soon you'll be after the sacred keys to EPO. Thanks for cleaning up the d-j-u-r-o-s-h-i-t.

John the mega

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:50:09 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Alas John, No.
Message:
After catching FV when Marianne threw it over the Atlantic, and wielding the rod of power for a year, the Hawks in Amerika have completed a palace coup, and I'm left drinking alone in a bar, waiting for a phone call. remembering the days when I'd swat **** when he appeared, and make up for sexual inadequacies by deleting all the feline posts as far back as I could.

Anth, if you can't get a shag kick the cat, as my old dad used to say...or was it shag the cat...I can't remember.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:34:49 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: If you hear laugh of liberation....
Message:
'If hear the laugh of liberation on the internet, delete it.'

I did. But I did it just as you were responding. This nut is probably D_J_U_R_O posting from India where he has just attended Rev Rawat's revivalist event.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:37:38 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Ah, my mistake!
Message:
Thanks, Pat!
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:53:05 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Yes, Thanks Pat.
Message:
Thanks, Pat!


---

On the old forum, if you deleted a post, everything beneath it would go too. So I expected my bit of zeny wit was a kamakazi koan, and you went and saved it.

Take care

Anth, and zen I'll make lots of money.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 14:45:20 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Latvian Flower Power. (ot)
Message:
A sixteen year old Latvian student sloshed Prince Charles in the face with a carnation today, when he did a walk-about in Latvia. As she was carted off by the cops, she said she did it as a protest against British involvement in the war in Afghanistan.

The Latvian president apologised to Charles and said she was obviously 'insane'.

John, were you there? Are you related? Is she the bird Hamzen tried to chat up at the Latvian club after he drank 4 bottles of Zelta.

Anth, good to see the old country on the national news comrade.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 17:40:37 (EST)
From: such
Email: banana@301.com.au
To: AJW
Subject: Latvian Flower Power. (ot) [nt]
Message:
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,2001390040,00.html
[ http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,2001390040,00.html ]
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:54:31 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Obviously Insane?
Message:
I, as most other Latvians, have tremendous respect for our president who has to be the best educated leader of a country on this planet, but to categorise anti-war protest as insanity is a little harsh, don't you think?

Anyway, I'd better say something about Maharaji before Gerry bans me. Someone below said that Maharaji has gone into recluse mode. Good news there then.

John.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:05:36 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: The Latvian Connection.
Message:
Hi John,

I thought Latvia was a connection. The Latvian club, site of the first knowledge review for exes, venue for the first ex-Latvian-pool competition.

Ah yes, the Captain- I hear his cult has collapsed. (polite cough.)

Anth the obviously insane too.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:53:23 (EST)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: See also
Message:
See also Anything Goes Too forum, post titled ''Good grief, this is going too far!''
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 13:22:24 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Hey Nottingham Bunnie
Message:
If you have old film footage like Satguru Has Come you can make video copies easily. All you do is set up a video camera up to videotape the screen upon which you show the movie. It sounds too simple and low tech, I know, but it works really well.

Then we could all have a good laugh...

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 14:34:59 (EST)
From: Nottingham Bunny
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Re: Hey Nottingham Bunnie
Message:
Hi Gerry,

Yes, I know both ways of copying videos. I remember seeing a very grainy bootleg ET with an ashram premie done that way, thought it had done it in a US cinema. What I meant was, I dont think the copy I have would reproduce that well. Somebody else may have a better copy for distribution.

I'm not exactly looking to court attention either. I've only just hopped from mole to bunnie. I like good parties though!

Regards

Bunny

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 14:47:50 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Nottingham Bunny
Subject: Hey Nottingham Bunnie
Message:
Hi Bunnie,

do I know you?

Anth meet you at the lions and pop down the Trip for a quick one?

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:04:48 (EST)
From: Nottingham Bunnie
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Hi Anth
Message:
Hi Anth

Yes, and if you are around for the next couple of weeks we might be able arrange something in that vicinity with our mutual friend.

Love to Dot

Bunny

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:10:23 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: anthginn@yahoo.com
To: Nottingham Bunnie
Subject: Re: Hi Bunny.
Message:
I should be up for two or three days in a week or two. Email me, and we can meet up for a drink or coffee or something.

Hope all is well with you an our pal.

take care

anth miduck (The Cryptic to Jerusalem)

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 14:44:11 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Nottingham Bunny
Subject: I think Gerry thought it was 16mm
Message:
I think Gerry thought it was a 16mm film version you had.

Hey, I've got a copy (thanks to JHB) of the documentary that was made at Millennium '73 on video - how about a showing of that too? I live in Durham, is that far from you?

Or how about this - the 'latvian' night usually happens in the early part of the year, perhaps we could meet up in a hotel like last year, but rent a room with a video player too.

Anyone else up for it?

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:13:47 (EST)
From: Nottingham Bunny
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Re: I think Gerry thought it was 16mm
Message:
Hi cq

Durham is far from most places!

Do you want to wait till March? We could break conventions and have a Xmas Latvian video party.

Regards,

Bunny

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 07:28:56 (EST)
From: cq
Email: christopher.giles@durham.gov.uk
To: Nottingham Bunny
Subject: sounds a great idea. But where?
Message:
sounds like a great idea. But where?

How about somewhere between Liverpool and Durham? Bradford perhaps? there's the BFI Museum and IMAX cinema there, which is well worth a visit, if we're going to make a day of it.

Any suggestions welcome - my email's above, or we could liaise via the Forum.

Christmas? Blimey. It's nearly here!

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 07:36:49 (EST)
From: magiclara
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Re: sounds a great idea. But where?
Message:
marvelous cheap curry in Bradford as well.
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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 12:45:01 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: magiclara
Subject: Curry in Bradford? You might be right
Message:
And we could have a great sing-song with titles like these:

Korma Chameleon - Culture Club

Tears On My Pilau - Kylie Minogue

Tikka Chance On Me - Abba

You Can't Curry Love - Diana Ross and the Supremes

It's Bhuna Hard Days Night - The Beatles

Dansak on the Ceiling - Lionel Richie

We Are Jalfrezi - Sister Sledge

Love me Tandoor - Elvis Presley

Livin' Dhal - Cliff Richard

Raita Here, Raita Now - Fatboy Slim

Tie me Vindaloo down sport - Rolf (can you smell what it is yet?) Harris

And finally, we can all sing along with Queen to this one:

Bohemian Curry (To the tune of Bohemian Rhapsody)

Naan-aa, just killed a man
Poppadom against his head
Had lime pickle, now he's dead.
Naan-aa, dinner just begun
But now I'm going to crap it all away.
Naan-aa, ooh-ooh
Didn't mean to make you cry,
Seen nothin' yet just see the loo tomorrow,
Curry on, Curry on,
cause nothing really madras.
Too late, my dinner's gone
Sends shivers up my spine
Rectum aching all the time.
Goodbye every bhaji, I've got to go
Gotta leave you all behind and use the loo.
Naan-aa, ooh ooh,
This Dopiaza's mild,
I Sometimes wish we'd never come here at all... (Guitar solo)
I see a little chicken tikka on the side, Rogan Josh, Rogan Josh
pass the chutney made of mango.
Vindaloo does nicely
Very very spicey ME!
Biryani (Biryani)
Biryani (Biryani)
Biryani and a naan,
(A vindaloo loo boo...)
I've eaten balti, somebody help me
He's eaten balti, get him to a lavatory Stand you well back
Cause this loo is quarantined.
Here it comes,
There it goes,
technicolor yawn.
I chunder
No!
It's coming up again
(There he goes) I chunder
It's coming up again
(There he goes) It's coming up again,
(Up again) Coming up
again (up again)
Here it comes again
(No no no no no no no no no No).
On my knees, I'm on my knees, I'm on my knees Oh there he goes
This vindaloo
Is about to wreck my guts
Poor me... Poor me... Poor me!
(Guitar solo)
So you think you can chunder and still it's alright?
So you want to eat curry and drink beer all night?
Ohh maybe, now you'll puke like a baby,
Just had to come out,
Just had to come right out in here.... (Guitar solo)
Korma, saag or bhuna,
Balti, naan, bhaji.
Nothing makes a difference
Nothing makes a difference to me
(Anyway, my wind blows.)

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 12:53:48 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Maharaji Cult Attack Websites -- Day 5
Message:
From what I know, here's where we stand with the most recent attacks by Maharaji against his former followers.

Last Sunday (11/04) we discovered SIX attack websites by Maharaji followers trying to smear ex-premies to blackmail them from discussing Maharaji or his cult on the Internet.

As of yesterday, four sites remained (not three like I mistakenly said yesterday), and as of today, three remain:

http://right2hate.webhop.net/
http://user.netomia.com/HaltOnLineABuse/
http://www.powow.com/right2hate

I believe the first and third of the above URLs have identical content. That's the 'red' site, that compares EPO to Neo-Nazi and KKK groups and lists seven ex-premies as hosting six 'Anti-Maharaji' sites.

The fourth site, that still existed yesterday, has been removed, and today I received the following email after I complained about it:

Hello,

The Abuser/Spammer you emailed about has been dealt with.

Thanks For Your Interest In The FreeHomePages.Com Network.

FreeHomePages.com Abuse Dept.
http://www.freehomepages.com/
http://www.searchit.com/

Here's the email I sent to them:

I wish to report a defamatory hate site on your server, or on a server hosted by you.
>
>The address is:
>
>http://www.pagerealm.com/csit/
>
>This websit was prepared by current members of the Maharaji cult, attacking former members who are speaking out on the internet about their
former cult.
>
>This website is defamatory and libelous to me and others. If it is not withdrawn immediately, I will have no other choice but to file suit against your company.
>
A similar site was on the Angelfire/Lycos server, and Lycos has already removed it. I hope that your company does the same. Obviously, time is of the essence.

Joseph Whalen

Still nothing whatsoever from Elan Vital, either in response to my email, or on their website, and certainly nothing from Maharaji.

Also, the Andersens and Mitch Ditkoff, although claiming to be addressing the 'innocent bystanders' apparently do not seem to care about what they think of these kinds of activities, let alone what we think about it.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:27:16 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: The new websites.
Message:
Hi Joe,

I think the new sites are much worse than the old CAC site. I had a whole page to myself on that one. Huh! Where are those creeps who put the new sites at? Do they not understand how important I am?

Anth, I want a page all to myself again, or I'm taking my computer home.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:36:35 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Not to worry Anth
Message:
Don't worry Anth, I'm sending them my copies of 'All God's Children' and they are planning to showcase you in a big spread.

Richard who used to be Postie and learned to suffix his name from Mr. Ginn

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:12:55 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Aaaaagh. No not that.
Message:
You rotten bastard. Going for my achilles eh? I'll take a leaf from my old guru's book and deny everything.

I don't usually quote myself, but, 'The way to our Father's feet is through satsang, service and meditation and we should do everything we can to help each other on the way. He is our all and he is our life. So let's all head for the silk socks of infinity together. Surrender, lay down your arms and give him your mind...etc'

Anth, OK I admit it, I was a complete prat. Leave me alone now will you? We all make mistakes. Pass me the bottle and let me forget.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 21:57:08 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Just kidding, Anth
Message:
Anth,

Just a little nudge-nudge wink-wink to see if the ol' heart was still working. Apparently so and here's the bottle you requested. In, fact I'll send 'round a whole case as you are such a fine gent.

Richard who, speaking of mistakes, hopes those Polaroids never fall into the wrong hands

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 12:49:19 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Meditation under the microscope
Message:






 



Neurotheology - meditation under the microscope


Here's an article from Newsweek (May 7th 2001) that looks interesting:

Religion And The Brain

By Sharon Begley; With Anne Underwood

In the new field of 'Neurotheology,' scientists seek the biological basis of
sprituality. Is God all in our heads?

One Sunday morning in March, 19 years ago, as Dr. James Austin waited for a
train in London, he glanced away from the tracks toward the river Thames.
The neurologist--who was spending a sabbatical year in England--saw nothing
out of the ordinary: the grimy Underground station, a few dingy buildings,
some pale gray sky. He was thinking, a bit absent-mindedly, about the Zen
Buddhist retreat he was headed toward. And then Austin suddenly felt a
sense of enlightenment unlike anything he had ever experienced. His sense
of individual existence, of separateness from the physical world around him,
evaporated like morning mist in a bright dawn. He saw things 'as they really are,'
he recalls. The sense of 'I, me, mine' disappeared. 'Time was not present,' he says.
'I had a sense of eternity. My old yearnings, loathings, fear of death and insinuations
of selfhood vanished. I had been graced by a comprehension of the ultimate nature of things.'

Call it a mystical experience, a spiritual moment, even a religious
epiphany, if you like--but Austin will not. Rather than interpret his
instant of grace as proof of a reality beyond the comprehension of our
senses, much less as proof of a deity, Austin took it as 'proof of the
existence of the brain.'
He isn't being smart-alecky. As a neurologist, he
accepts that all we see, hear, feel and think is mediated or created by the
brain. Austin's moment in the Underground therefore inspired him to explore
the neurological underpinnings of spiritual and mystical experience. In
order to feel that time, fear and self-consciousness have dissolved, he
reasoned, certain brain circuits must be interrupted. Which ones? Activity
in the amygdala, which monitors the environment for threats and registers
fear, must be damped. Parietal-lobe circuits, which orient you in space and
mark the sharp distinction between self and world, must go quiet. Frontal-
and temporal-lobe circuits, which mark time and generate self-awareness,
must disengage. When that happens, Austin concludes in a recent paper, 'what
we think of as our 'higher' functions of selfhood appear briefly to 'drop
out,' 'dissolve,' or be 'deleted from consciousness'.'
When he spun out his
theories in 1998, in the 844-page 'Zen and the Brain,' it was published not
by some flaky New Age outfit but by MIT Press.

Since then, more and more scientists have flocked to 'neurotheology,' the
study of the neurobiology of religion and spirituality. Last year the
American Psychological Association published 'Varieties of Anomalous
Experience,' covering enigmas from near-death experiences to mystical ones.
At Columbia University's new Center for the Study of Science and Religion,
one program investigates how spiritual experiences reflect 'peculiarly
recurrent events in human brains.' In December, the scholarly Journal of
Consciousness Studies devoted its issue to religious moments ranging from
'Christic visions' to 'shamanic states of consciousness.' In May the book
'Religion in Mind,' tackling subjects such as how religious practices act
back on the brain's frontal lobes to inspire optimism and even creativity,
reaches stores. And in 'Why God Won't Go Away,' published in April, Dr.
Andrew Newberg of the University of Pennsylvania and his late collaborator,
Eugene d'Aquili, use brain-imaging data they collected from Tibetan
Buddhists lost in meditation and from Franciscan nuns deep in prayer to...
well, what they do involves a lot of neuro-jargon about lobes and fissures.
In a nutshell, though, they use the data to identify what seems to be the
brain's spirituality circuit, and to explain how it is that religious
rituals have the power to move believers and nonbelievers alike.

What all the new research shares is a passion for uncovering the
neurological underpinnings of spiritual and mystical experiences--for
discovering, in short, what happens in our brains when we sense that we
'have encountered a reality different from--and, in some crucial sense,
higher than--the reality of every- day experience,'
as psychologist David
Wulff of Wheaton College in Massachusetts puts it.

In neurotheology, psychologists and neurologists try to pinpoint which regions
turn on, and which turn off, during experiences that seem to exist outside time
and space. In this way it differs from the rudimentary research of the 1950s and
1960s that found, yeah, brain waves change when you meditate. But that research
was silent on why brain waves change, or which specific regions in the brain lie
behind the change. Neuro-imaging of a living, working brain simply didn't exist back
then. In contrast, today's studies try to identify the brain circuits that surge with
activity when we think we have encountered the divine, and when we feel transported
by intense prayer, an uplifting ritual or sacred music. Although the field is brand new
and the answers only tentative, one thing is clear. Spiritual experiences are so consistent
across cultures, across time and across faiths, says Wulff, that it 'suggest[s] a common
core that is likely a reflection of structures and processes in the human brain.'

There was a feeling of energy centered within me... going out to infinite
space and returning... There was a relaxing of the dualistic mind, and an
intense feeling of love. I felt a profound letting go of the boundaries
around me, and a connection with some kind of energy and state of being that
had a quality of clarity, transparency and joy. I felt a deep and profound
sense of connection
to everything, recognizing that there never was a true
separation at all.

That is how Dr. Michael J. Baime, a colleague of Andrew Newberg's at Penn,
describes what he feels at the moment of peak transcendence when he
practices Tibetan Buddhist meditation, as he has since he was 14 in 1969.
Baime offered his brain to Newberg, who, since childhood, had wondered about
the mystery of God's existence. At Penn, Newberg's specialty is radiology,
so he teamed with Eugene d'Aquili to use imaging techniques to detect which
regions of the brain are active during spiritual experiences. The scientists
recruited Baime and seven other Tibetan Buddhists, all skilled meditators.

In a typical run, Baime settled onto the floor of a small darkened room, lit
only by a few candles and filled with jasmine incense. A string of twine lay
beside him. Concentrating on a mental image, he focused and focused,
quieting his conscious mind (he told the scientists afterward) until
something he identifies as his true inner self emerged. It felt 'timeless
and infinite,'
Baime said afterward, 'a part of everyone and everything in
existence.'
When he reached the 'peak' of spiritual intensity, he tugged on
the twine. Newberg, huddled outside the room and holding the other end, felt
the pull and quickly injected a radioactive tracer into an IV line that ran
into Baime's left arm. After a few moments, he whisked Baime off to a SPECT
(single photon emission computed tomography) machine. By detecting the
tracer, it tracks blood flow in the brain. Blood flow correlates with
neuronal activity.

The SPECT images are as close as scientists have come to snapping a photo of
a transcendent experience. As expected, the prefrontal cortex, seat of
attention, lit up: Baime, after all, was focusing deeply. But it was a
quieting of activity that stood out. A bundle of neurons in the superior
parietal lobe, toward the top and back of the brain, had gone dark. This
region, nicknamed the 'orientation association area,' processes information
about space and time, and the orientation of the body in space. It
determines where the body ends and the rest of the world begins.
Specifically, the left orientation area creates the sensation of a
physically delimited body; the right orientation area creates the sense of
the physical space in which the body exists. (An injury to this area can so
cripple your ability to maneuver in physical space that you cannot figure
the distance and angles needed to navigate the route to a chair across the
room.)

The orientation area requires sensory input to do its calculus. 'If you
block sensory inputs to this region, as you do during the intense
concentration of meditation, you prevent the brain from forming the
distinction between self and not-self,' says Newberg. With no information
from the senses arriving, the left orientation area cannot find any boundary
between the self and the world. As a result, the brain seems to have no
choice but 'to perceive the self as endless and intimately interwoven with
everyone and everything,' Newberg and d'Aquili write in 'Why God Won't Go
Away.' The right orientation area, equally bereft of sensory data, defaults
to a feeling of infinite space. The meditators feel that they have touched
infinity.

I felt communion, peace, openness to experience... [There was] an awareness
and responsiveness to God's presence around me, and a feeling of centering,
quieting, nothingness, [as well as] moments of fullness of the presence of
God. [God was] permeating my being.

This is how her 45-minute prayer made Sister Celeste, a Franciscan nun,
feel, just before Newberg SPECT-scanned her. During her most intensely
religious moments, when she felt a palpable sense of God's presence and an
absorption of her self into his being, her brain displayed changes like
those in the Tibetan Buddhist meditators: her orientation area went dark.
What Sister Celeste and the other nuns in the study felt, and what the
meditators experienced, Newberg emphasizes, 'were neither mistakes nor
wishful thinking. They reflect real, biologically based events in the
brain.'
The fact that spiritual contemplation affects brain activity gives
the experience a reality that psychologists and neuroscientists had long
denied it, and explains why people experience ineffable, transcendent events
as equally real as seeing a wondrous sunset or stubbing their toes.

That a religious experience is reflected in brain activity is not too
surprising, actually. Everything we experience--from the sound of thunder to
the sight of a poodle, the feeling of fear and the thought of a polka-dot
castle--leaves a trace on the brain. Neurotheology is stalking bigger game
than simply affirming that spiritual feelings leave neural footprints, too.
By pinpointing the brain areas involved in spiritual experiences and tracing
how such experiences arise, the scientists hope to learn whether anyone can
have such experiences, and why spiritual experiences have the qualities they
do.

I could hear the singing of the planets, and wave after wave of light washed
over me. But... I was the light as well... I no longer existed as a separate
'I'... I saw into the structure of the universe. I had the impression of
knowing beyond knowledge and being given glimpses into ALL.

That was how author Sophy Burnham described her experience at Machu Picchu,
in her 1997 book 'The Ecstatic Journey.' Although there was no scientist
around to whisk her into a SPECT machine and confirm that her orientation
area was AWOL, it was almost certainly quiescent. That said, just because an
experience has a neural correlate does not mean that the experience exists
'only' in the brain, or that it is a figment of brain activity with no
independent reality. Think of what happens when you dig into an apple pie.
The brain's olfactory region registers the aroma of the cinnamon and fruit.
The somatosensory cortex processes the feel of the flaky crust on the tongue
and lips. The visual cortex registers the sight of the pie. Remembrances of
pies past (Grandma's kitchen, the corner bake shop...) activate association
cortices. A neuroscientist with too much time on his hands could undoubtedly
produce a PET scan of 'your brain on apple pie.' But that does not negate
the reality of the pie. 'The fact that spiritual experiences can be
associated with distinct neural activity does not necessarily mean that such
experiences are mere neurological illusions,'
Newberg insists. 'It's no
safer to say that spiritual urges and sensations are caused by brain
activity than it is to say that the neurological changes through which we
experience the pleasure of eating an apple cause the apple to exist.'
The
bottom line, he says, is that 'there is no way to determine whether the
neurological changes associated with spiritual experience mean that the
brain is causing those experiences... or is instead perceiving a spiritual
reality.'

In fact, some of the same brain regions involved in the pie experience
create religious experiences, too. When the image of a cross, or a Torah
crowned in silver, triggers a sense of religious awe, it is because the
brain's visual-association area, which interprets what the eyes see and
connects images to emotions and memories, has learned to link those images
to that feeling. Visions that arise during prayer or ritual are also
generated in the association area: electrical stimulation of the temporal
lobes (which nestle along the sides of the head and house the circuits
responsible for language, conceptual thinking and associations) produces
visions.

Temporal-lobe epilepsy--abnormal bursts of electrical activity in these
regions--takes this to extremes. Although some studies have cast doubt on
the connection between temporal-lobe epilepsy and religiosity, others find
that the condition seems to trigger vivid, Joan of Arc-type religious
visions and voices. In his recent book 'Lying Awake,' novelist Mark Salzman
conjures up the story of a cloistered nun who, after years of being unable
to truly feel the presence of God, begins having visions. The cause is
temporal-lobe epilepsy. Sister John of the Cross must wrestle with whether
to have surgery, which would probably cure her--but would also end her
visions. Dostoevsky, Saint Paul, Saint Teresa of Avila, Proust and others
are thought to have had temporal-lobe epilepsy, leaving them obsessed with
matters of the spirit.

Although temporal-lobe epilepsy is rare, researchers suspect that focused
bursts of electrical activity called 'temporal-lobe transients' may yield
mystical experiences. To test this idea, Michael Persinger of Laurentian
University in Canada fits a helmet jury-rigged with electromagnets onto a
volunteer's head. The helmet creates a weak magnetic field, no stronger than
that produced by a computer monitor. The field triggers bursts of electrical
activity in the temporal lobes, Persinger finds, producing sensations that
volunteers describe as supernatural or spiritual: an out-of-body experience,
a sense of the divine. He suspects that religious experiences are evoked by
mini electrical storms in the temporal lobes, and that such storms can be
triggered by anxiety, personal crisis, lack of oxygen, low blood sugar and
simple fatigue--suggesting a reason that some people 'find God' in such
moments. Why the temporal lobes? Persinger speculates that our left temporal
lobe maintains our sense of self. When that region is stimulated but the
right stays quiescent, the left interprets this as a sensed presence, as the
self departing the body, or of God.

I was alone upon the seashore... I felt that I... return[ed] from the
solitude of individuation into the consciousness of unity with all that
is... Earth, heaven, and sea resounded as in one vast world encircling
harmony... I felt myself one with them.

Is an experience like this one, described by the German philosopher Malwida
von Meysenburg in 1900, within the reach of anyone? 'Not everyone who
meditates encounters these sorts of unitive experiences,'
says Robert K.C.
Forman, a scholar of comparative religion at Hunter College in New York
City. 'This suggests that some people may be genetically or temperamentally
predisposed to mystical ability.'
Those most open to mystical experience
tend also to be open to new experiences generally. They are usually creative
and innovative, with a breadth of interests and a tolerance for ambiguity
(as determined by questionnaire). They also tend toward fantasy, notes David
Wulff, 'suggesting a capacity to suspend the judging process that
distinguishes imaginings and real events.'
Since 'we all have the brain
circuits that mediate spiritual experiences, probably most people have the
capacity for having such experiences,'
says Wulff. 'But it's possible to
foreclose that possibility. If you are rational, controlled, not prone to
fantasy, you will probably resist the experience.'

In survey after survey since the 1960s, between 30 and 40 percent or so of
those asked say they have, at least once or twice, felt 'very close to a
powerful, spiritual force that seemed to lift you out of yourself.'
Gallup
polls in the 1990s found that 53 percent of American adults said they had
had 'a moment of sudden religious awakening or insight.' Reports of mystical
experience increase with education, income and age (people in their 40s and
50s are most likely to have them).

Yet many people seem no more able to have such an experience than to fly to
Venus. One explanation came in 1999, when Australian researchers found that
people who report mystical and spiritual experiences tend to have unusually
easy access to subliminal consciousness. 'In people whose unconscious
thoughts tend to break through into consciousness more readily, we find some
correlation with spiritual experiences,'
says psychologist Michael
Thalbourne of the University of Adelaide. Unfortunately, scientists are
pretty clueless about what allows subconscious thoughts to pop into the
consciousness of some people and not others. The single strongest predictor
of such experiences, however, is something called 'dissociation.' In this
state, different regions of the brain disengage from others. 'This theory,
which explains hypnotizability so well, might explain mystical states, too,'
says Michael Shermer, director of the Skeptics Society, which debunks
paranormal phenomena. 'Something really seems to be going on in the brain,
with some module dissociating from the rest of the cortex.'

That dissociation may reflect unusual electrical crackling in one or more
brain regions. In 1997, neurologist Vilayanur Ramachandran told the annual
meeting of the Society for Neuroscience that there is 'a neural basis for
religious experience.'
His preliminary results suggested that depth of
religious feeling, or religiosity, might depend on natural--not
helmet-induced--enhancements in the electrical activity of the temporal
lobes. Interestingly, this region of the brain also seems important for
speech perception. One experience common to many spiritual states is hearing
the voice of God. It seems to arise when you misattribute inner speech (the
'little voice' in your head that you know you generate yourself) to
something outside yourself. During such experiences, the brain's Broca's
area (responsible for speech production) switches on. Most of us can tell
this is our inner voice speaking. But when sensory information is
restricted, as happens during meditation or prayer, people are 'more likely
to misattribute internally generated thoughts to an external source,'
suggests psychologist Richard Bentall of the University of Manchester in
England in the book 'Varieties of Anomalous Experience.'

Stress and emotional arousal can also interfere with the brain's ability to
find the source of a voice, Bentall adds. In a 1998 study, researchers found
that one particular brain region, called the right anterior cingulate,
turned on when people heard something in the environment--a voice or a
sound--and also when they hallucinated hearing something. But it stayed
quiet when they imagined hearing something and thus were sure it came from
their own brain. This region, says Bentall, 'may contain the neural circuits
responsible for tagging events as originating from the external world.'
When
it is inappropriately switched on, we are fooled into thinking the voice we
hear comes from outside us.

Even people who describe themselves as nonspiritual can be moved by
religious ceremonies and liturgy. Hence the power of ritual. Drumming,
dancing, incantations--all rivet attention on a single, intense source of
sensory stimulation, including the body's own movements. They also evoke
powerful emotional responses. That combination--focused attention that
excludes other sensory stimuli, plus heightened emotion--is key. Together,
they seem to send the brain's arousal system into hyperdrive, much as
intense fear does. When this happens, explains Newberg, one of the brain
structures responsible for maintaining equilibrium--the hippocampus--puts on
the brakes. It inhibits the flow of signals between neurons, like a traffic
cop preventing any more cars from entering the on-ramp to a tied-up highway.

The result is that certain regions of the brain are deprived of neuronal
input. One such deprived region seems to be the orientation area, the same
spot that goes quiet during meditation and prayer. As in those states,
without sensory input the orientation area cannot do its job of maintaining
a sense of where the self leaves off and the world begins. That's why ritual
and liturgy can bring on what Newberg calls a 'softening of the boundaries
of the self'--and the sense of oneness and spiritual unity. Slow chanting,
elegiac liturgical melodies and whispered ritualistic prayer all seem to
work their magic in much the same way: they turn on the hippocampus directly
and block neuronal traffic to some brain regions. The result again is
'blurring the edges of the brain's sense of self, opening the door to the
unitary states that are the primary goal of religious ritual,' says Newberg.

Researchers' newfound interest in neurotheology reflects more than the
availability of cool new toys to peer inside the working brain. Psychology
and neuroscience have long neglected religion. Despite its centrality to the
mental lives of so many people, religion has been met by what David Wulff
calls 'indifference or even apathy' on the part of science. When one
psychologist, a practicing Christian, tried to discuss in his introductory
psych book the role of faith in people's lives, his publisher edited out
most of it--for fear of offending readers. The rise of neurotheology
represents a radical shift in that attitude. And whatever light science is
shedding on spirituality, spirituality is returning the favor: mystical
experiences, says Forman, may tell us something about consciousness,
arguably the greatest mystery in neuroscience. 'In mystical experiences, the
content of the mind fades, sensory awareness drops out, so you are left only
with pure consciousness,'
says Forman. 'This tells you that consciousness
does not need an object, and is not a mere by-product of sensory action.'

For all the tentative successes that scientists are scoring in their search
for the biological bases of religious, spiritual and mystical experience,
one mystery will surely lie forever beyond their grasp. They may trace a
sense of transcendence to this bulge in our gray matter. And they may trace
a feeling of the divine to that one. But it is likely that they will never
resolve the greatest question of all--namely, whether our brain wiring
creates God, or whether God created our brain wiring. Which you believe is,
in the end, a matter of faith.

Sharon Begley; With Anne Underwood

[ Neurotheology ]

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 21:42:10 (EST)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Fascinating stuff, eh?
Message:
We use to have some pretty intense discussions here on this theory of the brain/mysticism connection. Nobody seems much interested anymore. Maybe we've discussed all that can be to this date. But it's something to keep an eye on. The secrets of the brain is without a doubt the most interesting field of study in science today, IMHO. I, particularly, find the study of consciousness and mysticism from this angle to be the most enlightening means of knowing oneself. It's true you can have an intuitive sense of self but to know the mechanics of that intuition goes one step further. Really amazing stuff. I love it.
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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 10:47:31 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Re: Fascinating stuff, eh?
Message:
It's also very refreshing to have this kind of subject dealt with by non-mystics. (OK, they still want their papers published, but without the foot-kissing).

I've yet to hear of a new-age mystic who encourages/promotes this kind of research. Have you?

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:44:30 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Meditation makes you go blind.
Message:
The Jesuits got it right Chris. Meditation makes you go blind.

(To the tune of feniculi fenicula)

'Last night, I lay in bed, I pulled my plonker..etc'

Anth, where's me glasses? Ouch!

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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 10:44:33 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: where's your glasses you say?
Message:
where's your glasses you say?

so that's why they call it the one-eyed trouser snake.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 12:37:18 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Every detail on the CREAM conspiracy
Message:
Documents courtesy of one of my cyber-friends ....
[ 1st terrorist attack ever against God !! ]
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 13:19:56 (EST)
From: david m
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Re: Every detail on the CREAM conspiracy
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 13:26:18 (EST)
From: david m
Email: None
To: david m
Subject: Pie in the eye detroit style
Message:
Jean-Michel.. sorry i blew the first one..anyway i was from Detroit{Bloomfield Hills}..i was living in Atlanta at the time of the pie fiasco..We were waiting for GM to come to Atlanta for a major program..which he did not show up for..sent Raja Ji instead..I went back to detroit in Sept and all the premies were still defending Fakairnands hammer throw into Pat Haleys skull...this is when i had my first seed of doubt in the DLM I really thought it was kind of funny..Pie in the eye..oh well thanks for the memories..Peace..David
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 12:36:17 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Newly exiting premies
Message:
I've been mulling over the situation of people who are rather shell shocked in learning the facts about M and EV. It is indeed a very fragile state, customed designed. It doesn't hit everyone the same way, but it does hit and hit hard.

The suggestion I would like to propose is that we have a sub forum. Is this possible? Whereby a new person would be able to say what they need to say and are not responded to except by perhaps a few people who are rather good in this much needed hand holding phase. Perhaps the person John was referring to, for starters. Then, when they are through this phase and feel a bit stronger, they can jump into the forum and join in the fun.

I know I'm setting myself up for getting a good shakedown here, but at the risk of sounding offensive, without the benefit of time between a person and the world of knowledge, it is too fresh and raw to be handled in a typical way.

Look at the incredible amount of highly intelligent people here who joined up with M and how long it has taken to unravel the web that all that involved, still involves. Hindsight is 20/20, but new peolple do not have that luxery yet.

I remember how I felt when I made my first, naive posting. The response I got back felt like a ton of bricks crashing down. It wasn't, but it FELT like it. People who are fully involved in practicing knowledge and devoted to M are in a precarious position when the facts come to light and their world shakes, rattles and rolls on the reichter (sp) scale. Anything that can be done to ease this pain would perhaps be of benefit, and we will all eventually benefit when their information of the inner workings of behind the scenes sees the light of day.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 23:20:31 (EST)
From: Moley
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: Re: Newly exiting premies
Message:
On your idea of a sub-forum for new exes.... Well, as I said elsewhere, maybe a gentle 'exiting' forum would be a good idea. A forum for exes only - where only issues directly relating the cult were discussed. But I think it would have to be open to all exes. Cos who knows who would be a 'special' person to an exiting premie... different strokes for different folks....
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 22:47:59 (EST)
From: Peter Howie
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: Re: AND
Message:
Hi there,

I support your idea but I have no energy for this type of thing. But if you do, then go for it. Get a few collaborators together and create it. Part of my current mission in the world is the creation of an AND culture. This AND that - not this OR that. Which means there is room for many different types of solutions.

I remember my first post here - Jim crashing down like a hefalump and feeling sorry for me, a few bemused responses and a few supportive responses. I've also found as much and more difficulty posting on other highly friendly, integrated, professioanl internet/email groups. Self presentation is problematic for most people in certain circumstances. If you can do something to create another space where people who are unable or unwilling to post here, could do so then - best of luck! It would be a worthwhile endeavour. Either for yourself or encouraging others to join you. I'd also be interested to be kept abreast of any such development.

Good luck

Peter Howie
Brisbane, Australia

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:01:21 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: Come on in the water's lovely.
Message:
Hi Vicki,

I live next to the sea. When I go for a swim, it's really uncomfortable getting in, because it's cold at first. It's OK after a few minutes, but the initial getting wet is the worst bit of all. It's not comfortable. It's too late to turn back because you'd look like a prat. Ugggh. Aaaagh. Why does it have to be so.

I remember when I first crept nervously out the cult. My feelings were as you describe. My fingers shook the first time I posted (anonymously) on the forum. But it's OK. I don't think any ex-premies who post here do for any negative reasons. Most folk are actually quite friendly.

Swim. Splash. Adjust. Aaah. It's not so bad. In fact I'm enjoying it. The sea's not so cold after all. Outside the cult life is a bit more rough and ready. What people say isn't controlled. Some people aren't as friendly and lubby dubby as we might like. Some folk are downright rude.

But it's OK. The heart of this forum is healthy and free. Nobody's come up with a better idea yet.

And once you get your shoulders wet, and splash around a bit, it's OK.

Getting your ideas challenged is healthy.

Come on in. The water's lovely. (This cold, salty analogy, won't make sense to folk who leave near a warm sea.)

Anth the drip drip splash glug cough (choking on my own words as usual).

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 23:02:36 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Re: Come on in the water's lovely.
Message:
You are absolutely spot on, as per usual. If I had been able to articulate what I was feeling, you might have responded with this lovely post, and I might have been a little braver.

So if there is anyone who wants to post but is afraid, it is exactly as Anth says.

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 03:40:11 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: But, Vicki, you took to it like a duck to water
Message:
In my ten months here maybe I have seen about ten new comers arrive and you were the only one who seemed to just slip in like it was your natural environment. I did not but that's because I charge in like a bull in a china shop. I really appreciate having you here. You are so damn sane an sensible.
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 13:40:09 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: Very True, Vicki
Message:
I think you hit the nail on the head. Like we were discussing down below, what seems to many of us as just normal discussion, on this subject, to a questioning premie, it seems like a personal attack because the cult-programming is so ingrained, and so much of the identity of a premie. It's hard to take on the 'arguments' without seeming overly aggressive, even hurtful to the newly freed.

Didn't the 'recent exes' forum fulfill the function to a certain extent? I have never been there, but from what I understand it has been utilized quite a lot. The problem is you have to get a password and in the early stages of leaving the cult, someone may not want to do that.

It's a difficult thing to address. I think the major answer is for all of us to keep in mind what it felt like when we left the cult. Although it was a long time ago, I was devestated, and very fragile. I stayed away from premies, and they stayed away from me. But it would have been nice to be able to contact some ex-premies and get some help. So, on balance, even with all of its flaws, this forum is better than people trying to go 'cold turkey' on their own.

I think this is a really good issue to keep coming back to, because it's important, particularly if, as appears to be happening, premies are leaving the cult in larger numbers than before.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:41:59 (EST)
From: Francesca :C)
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Hate to be a devil's advocate but ...
Message:
... there is absolutely nothing stopping anyone from starting any kind of forum they please. Vicki's suggestions and the suggestions of several others are very good, and possibly this sort of thing is needed, but F7 and EPO are not an organization. There's no club to petition here!

When people suggest things, there is no one to do it, unless someone likes the suggestion and wants to step up to the plate. I daresay a premie who has not exited or is newly exiting may want to start this sort of thing up, themselves. Maybe it could be called Doubting Thomases or something like On the Fence. As I understand it, RecentExes is for people that are sure they are through with the Maha. If someone is still wavering, they probably won't belong there either.

Most people don't seem to have either the time or the computer knowledge to start and monitor new Forums. It's not easy. My hats are off to Gerry, Chuck (AGII) and RE for being there for people.

--f

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 17:36:55 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Francesca :C)
Subject: Other Names
Message:
How about:

Limboland
Mirage Ji
Exit Signs
Border Crossing
Repair Shop
Not Yet Ready for Prime Time
The Recovery Room
The Last Training
Head Cleaner
The China Shop

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:55:36 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Francesca :C)
Subject: This is what happened on EPO
Message:
When I blocked Jim from ForumV because I felt EPO was under threat and people complained, I said, as others have, that if people want a forum run the way they want, then they can set one up. This is what happened with Sir Dave setting up Forum VI and consequently Gerry with Forum VII. Everyone who looks after a forum or a website does so because they think it's worthwhile. They don't work for anyone else, and are not accountable to anyone else; except in my case, as I have inherited a website, I feel responsible to the people whose work set it up and helped me leave the cult.

Anyway, if anyone sets up a new forum, then I'll be happy to link to it from EPO.

John.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 12:56:06 (EST)
From: Peg
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: Re: Newly exiting premies
Message:
Well I won't shout you down. I am sure the whole thing is reaching a critical mass and there will be lots of people who come here. My husband was told that maharaji has gone into a recluse mode.. who knows where that will end up. The thing is there will also be lots of people who don't come here too. I notice that an awful lot of the people here are pretty articulate, intelligent, curious etc also they are to some degree into computers. I don't think all premies are like that, hopefully something will evolve for them too.

I have also thought about another kind of forum. One difficulty is that if it was open (which it would surely need to be for people to be attracted to it) it would almost certainly be visited by disruptive premies. perhaps it is possible to have anyone reading but password protected for posting? I expect there will be some constructive and computer literate solutions put forward. I quite like the idea of doing that 'service' if we can get something together. I wouldn't be able to do the computer stuff at the moment tho.
Peg

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:06:37 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Peg
Subject: Different Forum.
Message:
Hi Peg,

You can have a forum with different levels of access, set up how you like. I think the old recent exes forum was for members only. To join you had to be proposed by an existing member.

It's three years since I left the Captain's cult, and I'm starting to forget what it was like.

Take care,

Anth, to some degree into computers.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 14:55:47 (EST)
From: Chuck S.
Email: None
To: Peg
Subject: It IS possible, Peg...
Message:
Your idea to have a forum where everyone could read, but only people with a password could post, is possible with a Hotboards forum (like this one). Even a 'free' forum (with advertisments) gives you that option. Signing up to create a forum is just as easy as signing up for a free email account.

The difficulty is, who decides who is allowed to have a password, and who is not? Would people be allowed to post anonymously? Your idea is a good one, but someone would have to step forward and be willing to be 'in charge', and set the ground rules. If a few people got together and did it as a team, it would probably be easier on all concerned.

Also, a paid forum is $10.00 a month for up to 25,000 postings, and it costs an additional $10.00 for every additional 25,000 postings. (A 'free' forum has a limit on the number of posts allowed, I forget the exact figure). On my Anything Goes forum, I have yet to pay more than $10.00 a month, because it hasn't reached 50,000 a month. But on this forum, I think the figure is pushing close to $100.00 a month (Gerry could say for sure).

Probably the biggest problem to solve is getting people who have the time to devote to setting it up and managing it, especially when passwords are involved. I unfortunately don't have the time, the Anything Goes forum pretty much runs by itself, I only step in if there is a major problem, and there hasn't been one yet (knock on wood!).

I suspect a forum like you suggest would work best if managed by a small group, so the work didn't all fall on one person. It's just a question of who wants to get together to do it, and if it would be a paid site or a free (limited use) site.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 14:37:09 (EST)
From: Peg and Joe
Email: None
To: Peg
Subject: Something between Recent Ex's and F7 ?
Message:
Maybe even a specially flagged posting here that designates a new person who wants to post without being deluged with debate? I know we all like to hear from new people, no matter what stage they are in, and any information, whether it is from an x-rated, pam, church lady or average premie, is of value. I don't think it's too much to ask for some kid glove treatment during the initial exiting. Infact, I feel it's essential when people are trying to regain their footing.
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 19:42:08 (EST)
From: Jim S
Email: None
To: Peg and Joe
Subject: Re: Something between Recent Ex's and F7 ?
Message:
I agree, that might be easily done.

Maybe an icon that would designate a new poster who would rather not be challenged at this point, but simply wants to post and hear from other like minded people who have had similar experiences....

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:41:16 (EST)
From: Chuck S.
Email: None
To: Peg and Joe
Subject: I think it's important to realise, too...
Message:
... that posting on an internet forum, ANY intenet forum, for the first time, can be a daunting experience. Total strangers start to disect your posts, and ask you to explain yourself. It's very easy to interpret that as an attack, but it helps to remember that this is a place of words and ideas; no one can see your face, they often know nothing about your personality. They only see the ideas you have expressed, and when they question that, it's easy to be taken aback, and feel you are being challenged to defend yourself.

That's how it seemed to me at first, but since then I've become used to the process, and now it just seems natural and ordinary if anyone questions what I say. It often leads to further clarification, or helps me modify my position in lieu of new or better information. I've also realized that I don't have to agree with anyone anyway, that it's o.k. to disagree, or even refuse to talk to anyone I don't want to talk to.

So at least to a degree, the apprehension new exes may feel in posting may well be their general inexperience posting on an internet forum. I've vistied other forums since posting here, and found that other forums aren't so different, in terms of the ways people communicate (and mis-communicate). When you are new to the internet fourm arena, it takes a while to get your bearings and feel comfortable. Even becoming familiar with the mechanics posting adds to the stress till you figure out how it all works.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:40:32 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Peg and Joe
Subject: Agree with conditions
Message:
Hi peg,

Long time, no post. How are you doing? Do you feel that you were handled appropriately when you arrived? I remember posting to you and giving you some pointers to deflect unwanted responses.

How about having a preamble about 'how-to' arrive. i.e.

1. Introduce yourself or your handle and say something about yourself in regards to Maha.

2. Mention what you want to talk about and what you don't and if challenged, ask the poster not to question you further, etc.

The onus should not be on the exes to take apologetic swipes on the chin or abusive 'hate' and 'angry' slurs, etc.

But yes, compromise. don't forget: RE is acceptance only and they do not want people sitting on the fence. For a good reason. It is Recent Exes and they NEED to talk NOT debate.

Thanks for your input Peg.

deborah

p.s. Also, NO cacweasels allowed in the house ~)

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 19:38:41 (EST)
From: Peg
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: Hi Deborah
Message:
I remember you were one of those people who spoke to me first. Everyone was vey kind when I first arrived and actually has been since.

But I was already over the fence by that time, (I wonder if anyone can really read epo and not be) and I am not the sort of person who gets a strong response, I'm pretty scared and cautious where people are concerned.

The people who get the stick, apart from the premie wind up merchants, are the doubting premies who come here and try and salvage some goodness out of the whole thing by arguing. i wanted to do this too but was too careful to do much of it out loud. Now I find myself still intact and in fact even liberated and clearly see that I was really repressing a lot to be a premie.. now I can let myself be angry and critical and agree with the general climate here. It takes a while though to clamber down to the other side and get my bearings. All sorts of loose ends to tie up.

I wonder at myself... I always thought of myself as tolerant of others beliefs and lifestyles but now i have this strong desire to turn premies into exes. I wonder if I am getting above myself... it's not my concern really is it?

Peg

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 20:47:08 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Peg
Subject: Hi Peg
Message:
Peg,

You say,

I wonder at myself... I always thought of myself as tolerant of others beliefs and lifestyles but now i have this strong desire to turn premies into exes. I wonder if I am getting above myself... it's not my concern really is it?

I personally would like to see every premie be an ex. But it's not a direct goal. My main goal is to see Maha shut up once and for all and pack up his silly but dangerous megalomaniac greedy con game.

It is more my goal to diffuse as much of Maha's momentum and expose his past and current inconsistencies. He is a fraud and the level of psychological damage that he is causing people is criminal. I walked away over a decade ago, but I never acknowledged the cult and its implications. To eventually do so, was devastating. And that process only happened here at the EPO forum. I had conveniently discounted my encounter w/Maha as an adolescent spiritual mistake. Bull shit! When I opened the door to let that phantom out, it choked me.

Witnessing Michael Dettmers' post confirmed something BIG was wrong.

To read that a premie I knew committed suicide, asking Maha to reincarnate her in the next lifetime with him was what cracked that cult-safe open. Could you imagine the pain that her family had to endure reading her last words.

And I know for a fact, that her parents tried to deprogram her, but Maha's goons deceived her parents. She also came from a famous literary family. And I think her mother is an actress on a campy soap opera. Of course, we saw that as 'the Grace of the Lord'. How sad! That showed me the depth of the cult damage.

Peg, another thing about this forum is that it is dynamic. And s0metimes we fight amongst ourself and the forum breaks up and in the case of FV, Jim got banned. The one person I had met in over 12 yrs and the whole thing freaked me out.

What was worse, is that I was left on my own to deal with the multiple personalities coming from at least two premies apiece. And their goal was to upset me and they were UGLY, I mean UGLY.

So, I thought there was about 30 premies all equally sick in the head and violently abusive. Turned out it was the tactics of a couple of premies whose names I'm sure you can guess. So, needless to say, I attacked anybody who was a premie because I thought they were all the same and I never knew who was who. That shit can't go on here anymore.

When I got a grasp of the situation and realized that some premies were not the same as the monsters, I changed my attitude completely.

I'll defend the accusations but I feel the challenge is just in being here and I'd rather have them comfortable and stay and learn something.

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 03:44:21 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: That's a dynamite post, Deborah [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 14:59:16 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Peg and Joe
Subject: Peg and Vicki
Message:
I'm glad you are raising this subject. I was wanting to ask you what your experience was. This really needs tobe talked about. Until we get some sort of ''subforum'' into place I would suggest that a link to a little blurb be put at the top of the forum saying something like: ''New posters please click here to find out more about this forum.''

The blurb could say something like this:

''New posters please be aware that there are some heated discussions already occurring on this forum and it is not a good idea to jump into a controversial conversation immediately until people have gotten to know you.

''Please introduce yourself and request email addresses from people you already know or ask for someone kind and patient person to email you to help you to introduce yourself.

''Look at the White Pages addresses on EPO and see if there is an ex-premie who you know. It is also a good idea to read the Journeys section on EPO and see if there are any exes with whom you feel you could relate to and perhaps email them.

''The Ex-premie forum has a long history and many of the people here have known each other for years. Corresponding with one of the regulars who can fill you in on this history would help to understand many of the dynamics of the forum.

''Because it is an open forum cult apologists do post here and they can be extremely insulting and disruptive in their attempts to intimidate ex-premies. It is best to ignore them.''

Something to that affect. I feel as if I've already been here forever eventhough it's only been ten months but it took me at least six months to really understand the regulars and to trust and respect them.

I would like to see all new exes have more say in this.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 22:54:50 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: Peg and Vicki
Message:
Elan Vital inadvertantly sent me to EPO. I was on First Class, checking in to see what needed doing, and came across a blurb that said if anyone needed counseling from the disruption at the Mainz (sp) program, they should call said number and talk with instructors.

Well, that put a big question in my curious brain and so I went looking to find out what could have possibly happened that people would need counseling. No where on the net could I find anything so I ended up here and found it being discussed on the Forum. I started reading the EPO site and got my socks blown off.

I would check in to see what ya all were discussing and I remember feeling like I wanted to say something, but didn't dare. I just wanted to talk but I didn't even know what to say, how to say it or if I could say anything at all. The more days that went by and I kept logging on to the Forum, the more amazed I was that people were actually so open. I finally couldn't stand it anymore and got brave, jumped in and honestly it felt like I had hit a button to detenate myself when I actually posted. It was terrifying.

That posting was so very hard. You all were seasoned, had been through this rocky journey, were rock solid in your convictions, and here I was, this nearly 30 year pwk that was dutifully living the life and times of Maharaji's World. For those of you that weren't there, that was a big buzz word at a Long Beach event.....the world of knowledge. There's this world but then there's the other world, the world of knowledge.......

For me, it was like jumping into a blender and having someone hit frappe. I can't explain what it's like to one day be a Erika whats her name and the next, sitting bug eyed at the comp feeling like calling 911 to bring a straight jacket, and take me where? Where the hell does one go to recover, recapture, reorganize a life that flew out the window in less than a blink of an eye?

I couldn't call my best friends who had watched me join up way back when and thought I'd lost all my marbles.

I couldn't call up my parents who had watched me march off to every corner of the world to see M, join an ashram and leave behind everything that had ever meant anything to me.

I couldn't tell my husband that the greatest thing in my life, which I introduced him to, was a big scam.

I couldn't tell my children, who I had spoon fed on knowledge and now wanted knowledge for themselves, that it was all possibly one big lie.

I couldn't call up the premies I have spent these years with and blow their world up along with mine.

I couldn't put an APB out over First Class and ask for clarification, well maybe I should have.

The point is, as my world was falling apart, I really had no where to turn but here. Honestly.

Finding a psychiatrist and to even start to go into this was too much to even contemplate.

Nope, you guys were it. You didn't know you were it, but you were. Sanity in the face of my dwindling grip on the most intimate part of my soul.

Trying to sort through EPO was daunting, but coming to the Forum was real. You were real people talking. And as much as I needed the history, I needed real people at the most fragile time in my life.
I've been through a lot in my life, a whole lot as a matter of fact, but not one thing has knocked me more for a loop than finding out my perfect master, my living lord, my reason for having a human life make sense, was a....well you all know what goes here.

So what would have made it easier for me? I don't know, something between recent ex's (too scared to give my real name and email) and the forum. Although, I feel if people on the forum had known what my state of being was, they would have been gentle. But it doesn't help in those first days to be told it will get better. It's true, but the feelings are so raw, honestly I just needed some tlc and chai. That chai thread was one of my favorites.

My reason for starting this discussion was because if it is as John says, then it would be great if we could update just a little to make it easier for the ones he said want to post but aren't strong enough yet. I am eternally grateful for everyone here and for the EPO site.
It would have been a long, long, long lonely road to try and go it alone.

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 15:32:57 (EST)
From: Francesca :C)
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: **BEST, BEST, BEST of FORUM** READ THIS!!
Message:
Amazing, and articulate Vicki! Just amazing.

Good work. Maybe this should be your journey? I haven't written mine yet either!

Love,

Francesca

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 13:44:37 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: Thanks for that...
Message:
Wow, that was amazing. I could almost feel those feelings. I hope your post can get saved, because so many people need to hear that others are feeling the same things they are. And isn't it wonderful that in those times it isn't isolation but other people whom you sought to be with?

I love that line. To one day be Erika Andersen and then the rest...

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 11:49:02 (EST)
From: Marianne
Email: MarianneDB@aol.com
To: Vicki
Subject: Wonderful, heartfelt post
Message:
Vicki, that was such a warm and wonderful post. The image of your heart changing in the blink of an eye as you read the forum was amazing, and so accurate.

So glad you're here.

Marianne

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 09:24:30 (EST)
From: Suedoula
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: Beautiful post, Vicki, thanks (nt) [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 08:52:15 (EST)
From: KatieH
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: Great post, Vicki! **BEST of FORUM**
Message:
I'm glad you started to post here - your posts have been great. BTW, I do remember what you mean about Mainz - Wolfie brought it up here.
Thanks,
Katie
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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 04:28:21 (EST)
From: Peg
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: Thanks Vicki
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 04:00:38 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: Absolutely ***BEST OF FORUM***,Vicki
Message:
I bet you don't realize that you are writing history. Maybe not the kind everyone will be interested in but that will help other people who were caught up in this cult.

I had no idea that EV offered ''counselling'' after the French debacle. That's history. Thank you. I bet you didn't even realize that that is a significant piece of information.

You said their was a disruption at Mainz. I thought it was in Versaille. Jean-Michel was blamed for that of course. He's a wonderful man.

A post by Pauline Premie inspired me to join in the fun here. I was ROTFLMAO as you would say. I had tears in my eyes. That's what made me realize I belonged here. I needed that healthy irreverence to break my superstitious fear of M. My heartfelt thanks to Pauline Premie.

Someone else once said that his break with the cult occurred because of Chuck's spoof You Too can be Satgooroo

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 11:58:58 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Newly Exiting Premies...
Message:
Hi All,

Vicki's post certainly brought back memories of my cow in a china shop entrance, exit, re-entrance, exit, and my last return to the forum which has stuck. Yes, yes, I can be a bitch, I know. But I am concerned that new exes realize that if they are honest with us we will be honest with them. Often they might not like what they read, but isn't that also part of the exiting? Learning to think, question authority, allowing doubts about m to emerge, the emotions, and examining the whole gawd-awful con is part of leaving.

Some new ex-premies post here before first reading EPO and observing the forum. Some have a tendency to want to change it--I know because I had plenty of suggestions at first. I've seen it again and again in other newbies. Is it part of the ''always be nice'' syndrome learned from the cult? I guess none of this is easy, especially with EV Monitors, CACa sites, and Maharaji going down the tubes.

It's very painful to admit that 25 years of my life were used up believing in santaji. Leaving the cult is much more than saying ''I quit'' and walking away (M always says premies are free to come and go--yeah, right).

IMO, this forum is the only place for exes to come, new or old, to discuss the experience of being in the Maharajism cult, and the process of leaving. It's a tender time for new exes, but I believe that it's healthy for new exes to dip their toes in the water here.

We're not a bunch of monsters and we are imperfect humans. There's a lesson in that. There is much kindness here, too.

I've always thought this place to be inprecedented. Unless someone is actually suicidal or seriously mentally ill, they will live through coming to the forum. I've noticed a new civility here lately and it's good. Yet, as we never were allowed to do before, we do argue like siblings sometimes. I don't see anything wrong in having disagreements, as long as the new exes realize it's probably something between two folks right here, and is not about them.

Just my penny's worth,
Cynthia

P.S.: The humor here is vital, too. For some, the jokes about m might be too much at first. It was pretty weird for me, but I got over it soon and find it a healthy release. Doggie Darshan!

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 13:03:06 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Yes, Pat's link in the above post is hilarious
Message:
Hey Cynthia and Pat,
I found this thread very interesting in that it pretty much sums up the dynamics of the forum. This forum can be loving, extremely funny and also brutally hurtful. The problem with this forum and it's form of commucication, is that it lacks the other equally important cues of communication. Voice inflection, bodylanguage and facial expression to name a few. This form of non-verbal communication, here on the forum, is limited at best. It's so easy to misunderstand what someone is trying to convey to you. Was that sarcasm? A joke? Did that person just call me stupid? Why is this person so angry?
Another problem with this forum is for those of us who don't know each other in person. I don't think I have ever met anyone who posts here nor do I know anyone here from my premie days. I might have known of you but I don't have any old friends here. That's okay in and of itself, but it does and did put me at a disadvantage when I first started posting here. That's why I think the Latvaian Nights are such a good idea when they happen.
I agree with you Cynthia, this forum has mellowed somewhat in recent months. I think everyone for the most part is much gentler and more tolerant of each other. I know I am.
I remember becoming completely consumed with this forum when I first was directed here. I also remember feeling extremely angry. Up to that point in my life, I had not had anyone to whom I could discuss my complete disgustion with Maharaji. My husband was a premie at the time and thanks to this venue he has exited. And prior to exposure to this forum, I had not been able to understand and come to terms with what the fuck had exactly happened to me. How and why did I get sucked into a cult and end up spiritually raped? I always considered myself so level headed for the most part. The information here and on EPO has helped immensly. But boy, coming here really 'liberated' some suppressed and repressed feeling and thoughts in regards to Maharaji and those who help him perpetuate it. Maybe that's not fair to the PAM's but it's my take on it. I still have some anger and I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing but my predominate thoughts and feelings toward premies in general is pity. My take on M is one of disgust. I think he is evil and probably dangerous. In my book, he spreads more suffering and psychological harm that is given by his circus stunt meditation techniques.
Yes, the forum is a process. Posting is an acquired art. Just learning the lingo here can take awhile. You also have to be careful in some respects. And for pete's sake, to those who are new here, don't get drunk and post. You end up embarrassing yourself. Remember, above all, not to take it too seriously. A slightly thickened skin is advantageous.

Kind regards, Tonette

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 13:24:52 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: More great posts Cynthia and Tonette
Message:
I also want to say how glad I am that Vicki, Peg, Magiclara and Suedoula have persevered and added their voices to the forum and for emailing me and tellingme more about themsleves. Thanks to all of you but an especial thanks to Pauline Premie who saved me from the clutches of a dying cult.
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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 12:27:53 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Doggie Darshan? Like in 'Deliverance'? Gross! [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 12:03:23 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: NoNoNo, Jim...
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 13:40:31 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Doggie Darshan? Like in 'Deliverance'? What?
Message:
I don't remember that. What they did to poor old Ned Beatty is called doggie style.
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 12:00:57 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: jimheller@shaw.ca
To: All
Subject: new email address (OT)
Message:
I've got a new email address if you're interested:

jimheller@shaw.ca

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 11:46:14 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: All
Subject: John Macgregor's posts on EPO
Message:
John Macgregor's first two posts are now on EPO linked from the homepage.

Joe, your recent posts are next.

I know I'm behind with keeping EPO up to date, but I'm beginning to get the hang of this. Just to let you know, here are my plans for updating EPO:-

1. Joe's recent posts responding to PleaseConsiderThis and CAC. These will be linked from the Maharaji and the Internet section on the Site Map. There will be one page for each of the premie websites and our responses to them.

2. Rewrite of the Jagdeo section. This is something I've promised myself and others for a long time. John Macgregor's recent and coming revelations regarding Jagdeo make this task more pressing.

3. Document a recent exchange I had with EV's PR department (before they clammed up). Nothing particularly revelatory but interesting nonetheless. i promised them I would keep the exchange confidential if they kept communicating, but they didn't.

4. Document Jim's challenge to premies to set up an independent panel to adjudicate whether Maharaji really did say he was God.

5. Update the HomePage to better encourage newcomers to read the site. Bjorn for instance has admitted to only reading a few pages, but has spent many hours on the forums. I remember when I first looked at the site. I closed the page within a few seconds out of cult fear. I would like to use those few seconds to try to get newcomers to stay a little longer.

6. Update the site history, What's New, and correct other small factual and linkage mistakes (see, I found errors but the premies on LG and EV couldn't!)

7. In the longer term, look at the possibility of changing the 'look and feel'. Hamzen is playing with a few ideas but as I said to him, one of the most important design principles is ease of loading.

Let me know if you have any other ideas, but don't shout at me if I don't implement them.

John.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:13:21 (EST)
From: bill
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: A John Macgregor comment to consider
Message:
The Indian premies, for instance, don't know that Maharaji eats meat, drinks and smokes - let alone that he has selected premie women from the audience for his sexual use. It would be a huge cultural leap for them to accept him if they found this out. Most would leave.

For this reason Maharaji's lifestyle is kept top secret in India. Even in the West, no Indian premies (other than x-rated ones like Sampur) are allowed to do service in the personal area or Maharaji's kitchen, specifically because of the effect that learning of Maharaji's lifestyle would have on them.

What is the name of that paper in India that did the sai baba expose
and maybe we should really write them and get them to do a big article

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 22:41:27 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: Good idea bill [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:14:36 (EST)
From: bill
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: Did anyone try to contact that India magazine? [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:14:21 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Other ideas.
Message:
Hi John,

How about opening a night club in Vilnius, and getting the Beatles to reform (with Julian Lennon instead of John) to play on the opening night?

There should be an Elvis clone up and running be then too.

Anth, I'll email you.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 14:56:23 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: link to Barry's cartoons [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 12:31:20 (EST)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: I think I might be falling in love with you jhb
Message:
Beautiful, total 'transparency' to use the present vernacular, goes so much further, and saves so much grief, and gets maximum respect, you'd be a good manager.
You're a gem.

If you want a hand with the html for the front page just e-mail us yeah.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 12:16:06 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: gkl1@techline.com
To: JHB
Subject: Oh this will be fun!
Message:
John, I encourage you to work with Ham on this if you guys can, because if you visit Ham's site you'll see he's got the touch and can really spiff the place of design-wise, IMO. Not that there is anything wrong with our present version but it does seem timely for a remodelling.

Likewise, I want to make a home page for this forum, explaining the mission statement here and the rules for participation clearly so cultweasels can't say they 'didn't know.' This will give us a little "tooth" when dealing with trolls. If anyone has suggestions please send them to me. If you click on my name in the introduction you can send me email. gkl1@techline.com I want to do this by email and not on this forum.

The page would also explain the whole 'donation' thing. I also want a public accounting of the funds I receive to be available online. (At least I think I do, and I need advise about this as well.) I want to do this by email also and not on this forum.

I feel we al have really turned a corner and have become much more formidable in our challenge to Maharaji's mind control cult scam which has enslaved some of our very best and most loved friends.

Retire and make retribution, Rawat.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:29:15 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: check email [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 07:44:32 (EST)
From: Inside Edition
Email: None
To: All
Subject: EV Monitors - This is the LASTstraw
Message:
EV Monitors, here is a message for the boss, the client, the speaker, the don, the captain, the pimp, or whatever you call him these days.

We have put up with his sex with devotees, the Jagdeo disaster, alcoholism, drug abuse, lies about previously being the Lord of the Universe, massive financial impropriety, vehicular manslaughter and CAC attacks (who is the GENIUS behind that brilliant move?), but when you start SHOOTING AT BUNNIES in Amaroo, that's it. End of game. Tilt.

Premies, how can you possibly continue to worship and support a man who shoots at bunnies for fun?

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:31:45 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Inside Edition
Subject: Oh Ye of Little Faith.
Message:
Don't you realise. The Captain created the bunnies in the first place. Plus they are an illusion.

And anyway, if they've been shot through the head by the living Lord, automatically the immense good karma they accumulate from this act, will ensure they have the choice of eternal liberation or returning to earth as a Buddha Bunny, bringing enlightenment to those furry little mammals that think life is just about shagging and eating lettuce.

Don't you know anything.

Shri Anthji Patron Saint of Rabbits, Hares and Badgers.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 19:28:39 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Krishna said: ''Don't worry about killing them...
Message:
....they're dead already since they don't have Knowledge.''
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Date: Sun, Nov 11, 2001 at 07:53:15 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: LOL (nt)
Message:
oh yeah I forgot
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 18:36:24 (EST)
From: Inside Edition
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Sorry Anth, I completely forgot...
Message:
...that the bunnies would be instantly liberated after being shot by the living Lord of the Universe himself, much like the person Rawat hit with his car in India.
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:27:29 (EST)
From: Nottingham Bunnie
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: shagging and eating lettuce?
Message:
Anth

'shagging and eating lettuce' - wasn't that the other lot with Rajneesh/Osho? What did we get? Ashrams and abstinence - we were in the wrong cult!

Bunny

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 17:34:58 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Nottingham Bunnie
Subject: I was refering to Rabbits.
Message:
But there again, you're a Bunny too aren't you?

I suppose that's what's caused the confusion.

I meant that the rabbits shot by the Captain could return to Earth as enlightened bunny rabbits, spreading the word to their fellow bunnies.

Anth the just because I'm a mammal doesn't mean I'm a rabbit. (Didn't you used to have a rabbit running wild in your house once?)

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 18:03:38 (EST)
From: Nottingham Bunny
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Re: I was refering to Rabbits.
Message:
Anth,

It was my attempt at light hearted humour. I did understand you - I didn't realise you were being serious! Don't you enjoy any Rabbit pastimes? Lettuce, I mean! (Or in your case - grass)

That was our devoted friend who had the rabbit Anth! All that grass has damaged your memory cells.

Love

Bunny

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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 06:05:24 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Nottingham Bunny
Subject: Sorry Bunny.
Message:
I got you muddled up with someone else.

I remember you now. Didn't you dive off the balcony at the Sherwood Rooms on acid one night? Or was it Mandrax?

Anth, yes, I remember it well. Lucky you landed on the fat bloke eh?

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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 08:03:13 (EST)
From: Nottingham Bunny
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Hi Anth
Message:
Thanks Anth,

I always be grateful for the selfless way you broke my fall!

love,

Bunnie

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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 11:56:24 (EST)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Nottingham Bunny
Subject: ROTLFLOL!
Message:
And I don't laugh out loud much...

Thanks, from another bunny person :)

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 17:00:43 (EST)
From: PatD
Email: None
To: Nottingham Bunnie
Subject: The wrong cult
Message:
maybe not. I knew a Rajneeshi who died of aids,certainly contracted in wherever the bearded hisser had his city, Colorado was it?

In times past we used to agree to disagree on our choice of 'masters'. From what I gather about authoritarian cults ,Rajneesh used total excess to depersonalise his followers & soften them up for the big flop your wallet opening required.

Rawat went for the total denial method. A more traditional & certainly longer lasting formula.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 17:55:37 (EST)
From: Nottingham Bunny
Email: None
To: PatD
Subject: Re: The wrong cult
Message:
It was light hearted banter with Anth, Pat, I wasn't really serious. Though he thought he had to explain his analogy to me above! What I think is funny now is that we thought they were a cult and we were right. But we thought that about everything, didn't we? We had the Lord; they had a charlatan.

Actually I know quite a lot of the old Sanyasins, they have their issues, but many are a lot less fearful than many premies and a lot more open. The ones I know are well and pretty health conscious too. I know two people that died of aids. One was a female premie.

Bunny

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 23:32:20 (EST)
From: Moley
Email: None
To: Nottingham Bunny
Subject: Sanyasins I knew
Message:
Got seriously messsed up - and they had to wear orange for Chrissake
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:20:57 (EST)
From: Zelda
Email: None
To: Inside Edition
Subject: rabbits vs guru
Message:
rabbits are a destructive pest in austrailia. shooting them as a pastime is akin to shooting rats .
alternatives are poison/dogs.
Z
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:21:08 (EST)
From: Nottingham Bunny
Email: None
To: Zelda
Subject: Just like our own dear Royals and country toffs...
Message:
........They make the same argument about foxes, get dressed up and have a lovely time hunting and tearing them to pieces. All with the higher purpose of helping the ecology. Very efficient. That's alright then.

I wonder what the Dalai Lama would think to M's recreational rabbit shooting? Interesting behaviour for a realised master. Of course, intent is usually pretty significant. As well as being a good shot.

Call me soft but I like bunnies. There's quite a few human beings that behave like destructive pests on this planet. I don't mean the obvious recent candidates; but many others who are seen as very 'respectable'. I wasn't planning to shoot them all.

Bunny

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 12:38:07 (EST)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Nottingham Bunny
Subject: Hey Bunny
Message:
You are hilarious. I love these lines about the bunnies going right to heaven along with the guy hit by Captain Rawat while driving. Then the stuff about the human being who behave like destructive pests...

You brought me some laughs that I really needed.
Thanks, Marianne

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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 08:16:29 (EST)
From: Nottingham Bunny
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Hey Marianne
Message:
Hi Marianne,

Thank you - though I think the bunny liberation theme came in one of Anth's responses. Though I was a bit worried when I awoke yesterday morning and realised I had been dreaming of our fluffy friends!

Humour always helps - just with being alive - but particularly in times like you are going through right now. Bjorn's behaviour is outrageous. It contrasts dramatically with the integrity of the exes here that have, to my knowledge, never attempted to out cult members to their employers. I'm glad about that; it's important that we stay in integrity.

There are a small number of potentially dangerous fundamentalist premies around who may become more desperate as the flow of exiting premies gets stronger. (But for the 'Grace', perhaps, go I...?)They are in the minority and their behaviour will only serve to alienate the other sincere good hearted premies. Truth will out.

I have a lot of dear friends from my lifetime in the cult. Some are still in, some are in but wobbling, some are out and lurking and some I have watched come out publicly before I have. You and other CAC victims do have support from many who do not post here. I have reasons (other than fear) that I am not publicly out yet

We have met, Marianne, (ask Kelly, Anth or Hamzen) and it would be lovely to meet you again at the next Latvian .

I hope you are feeling better.

Lots of love

Bunny

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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 14:26:53 (EST)
From: Marianne
Email: MarianneDB@aol.com
To: Nottingham Bunny
Subject: Oh now I know
Message:
I think I have figured out who you are. Email me if you want. Thanks for your kind words and support.

Marianne

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 14:37:50 (EST)
From: Nottingham Bunnie
Email: None
To: Inside Edition
Subject: Ditto NT
Message:
NT
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 13:44:40 (EST)
From: Bugs Bunny
Email: None
To: Inside Edition
Subject: Listen up, Guru Elmer Fudge the Truth Ji
Message:
This wascally wabbit is gonna get you.

PatC ;)

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 22:15:10 (EST)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Toon time! Have a laugh!
Message:
Squish em, burn em, poke em, eat em, mmmm mmmm good! It's....
[ http://acousticoutlaw.tripod.com/mushy.html ]
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 04:15:48 (EST)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: Have microshaft hired you Barry
Message:
or should I be getting paranoid?

No sign of on my screen

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 22:30:49 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: And we could share...
Message:
lies and criminal stories about Maha around the campfire.

Hi Barry

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 22:53:40 (EST)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: Hi Deb!
Message:
I got a job at Black's photograpy. Thank Christ! I thought I was going to go mad without work. feeling better now- a little. still colder than a penguin's fart here, but you just do what ya gotta do I guess. Stupidest thing I ever did was move here. Anyhow, hope your new job's working out for ya. Later!
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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 22:18:53 (EST)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: Tell me if you see it?(nt)
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 18:27:05 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Maharaji Cult Attack Site Update
Message:
As far as I know, there are STILL two sites on the Internet attacking former followers of Maharaji who are posting on the internet. Here are the two sites:

http://right2hate.webhop.net/

http://user.netomia.com/HaltOnLineABuse/

I have received no response from Elan Vital after I asked them to say something about this. On Elan Vital's website, the 'press' section is closed down. No statement on Maharaji's website either.

Also, no statement on the Please Consider This website from Erika/David Andersen and Mitch Ditkoff (and the other guy whose name I don't recall).

What does this mean?

When CAC appeared a couple of months ago, Elan Vital was quick to put up a self-serving press release saying they had nothing to do with it.

Also, a number of premies posted their horror and disgust at what was going on, including David Andersen, who said it was indicative of a "cult."

This time, with FIVE attack sites, two of which remain up on the internet, we see nothing. Silence.

John MacGregor tells us that Maharaji is certainly behind these websites. That, combined with the silence from both him and Elan Vital is very disturbing.

Plus, premies, themselves are also saying nothing. Has the Maharaji cult sunk to that level?

Comments? Personally, I'm at a loss to explain this. Like what Marianne said yesterday, why would Maharaji do something that so clearly backfires on his ability to ever get any new converts, expose him to even more damaging publicity, and is certain to only increase the resolve of those attacked because they can't give into blackmail?

The site with the 'red' background, the one that names ex-premies and associates them with Neo-Nazi and KKK sites is especially foul, and amazingly vicious. Plus it's clear that somebody put hours upon hours of time, as well as considerable expense to put it together.

Is this what donations to Elan Vital are being used for? Of course, we will never know, because finances are all part of the secrecy which is one of the hallmarks of Maharaji's operation.

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 22:37:11 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: YES, MAHA and has stooped this Low
Message:
Hey Premies,

Does it look like Maha is a big wonderful SatGuru whose goal is to bring to the planet? Reminds me of the movie NATURAL BORN KILLERS that I just finished seeing in my film class.

Is this the Guru of ideal LOVE that you've dedicated your heart, money, careers, relationships to adore?
Is he the highest human soul who is capable of bringing Peace to the Planet?

Maha is reeking with ANGER and FEAR. Can't you see that?

When you keep him isolated in mega millionaire lifestyle and shelter him from the scrutiny of the world, you don't get feedback.

Well, premies, this is YOUR feedback. Do you like it?

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 19:16:42 (EST)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Isn't it about ego & humiliation?
Message:
They've reached a point where their brains are fusing because the anonymity they hid behind for years gave them a feeling of being invulnerable, and enabled the lila/gm's grace state to flourish, then all of a sudden it's exposed as just luck.
So from never having any critical thinking involved around gm, it's all out in the open.

If you then have a bundle of conceptual baggage AND a large spritual ego/arrogance you flip, and all the strategic thinking is gone.

Gm's a classic example of this when he loses the plot, x-rating saved him loads of times no doubt, but exes can't be x-rated.

Like with a child's ego that thinks the whole universe exists just for itself really, and the inevitable consequence of uncritical thinking in critical times.

If it wasn't so nasty you'd have to think how sad and pathetic that they can prove so easily what a cult state they are in.

Same argument I think for those premies like cackweasel who show up here and make themselves look stupid, they don't care because they have no power left so any power however stupid and irresponsible is better than none.

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 18:50:40 (EST)
From: Isabella
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: Maharaji Cult Attack Site Update
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 21:03:18 (EST)
From: The new kinder, gentler PatC
Email: None
To: Isabella
Subject: Thanks, Isabella
Message:
I used to read your posts on LG because you sounded like the only sane person there sometimes. I remember when you stated that you did not approve of CAC and were troubled by the Jagdeo affair. That's enough for me.

Now if only you could see that a man who unnecessarily shoots rabbits for sport (he eats lots of meat but he's got enough money to buy filet mignons every day) is not a very nice person and that's why those closest to him (people like the CACroaches) are not nice either.;)

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 18:52:34 (EST)
From: Isabella
Email: None
To: Isabella
Subject: Sorry - Post did not go 1st time
Message:
Joe writes:
Also, a number of premies posted their horror and disgust at what was going on, including David Andersen, who said it was indicative of a 'cult.' This time, with FIVE attack sites, two of which remain up on the internet, we see nothing. Silence. John MacGregor tells us that Maharaji is certainly behind these websites. That, combined with the silence from both him and Elan Vital is very disturbing.


Since I weighed in last time, it didn't seem neccessary to weigh in again. I suspect the 'others' feel the same. However, to assuage your fears I will repeat what I said before. YES - CAC and all its relatives still suck. They have no place in this or any other world. They are mean-spirited and basically lame. Of course, the fact that they are lame make them no less hurtful, and I apologize to any of you who have been named on them. I do not believe that Maharaji is behind these sites - just doesn't seem to be his style. Of course, I have no proof of that, and maybe John has inside information that I don't (me not being an international organizer and all). As for Elan Vital, I don't think they are behind it either...but I understand you would have no reason to believe me. Just my opinion. Hopefully they will reach their final resting place (the bit bucket) soon. Regards, Isabella
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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 22:48:24 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Isabella
Subject: Thank you so much Isabella
Message:
Hi Is,

Your integrity is admirable. I am really happy to hear you discern about what you do know and what you don't know. It's sad that other premies think they are above the law because they are doing this for Maharaji.

It pleases me to know that many premies like yourself have a sense of morality. We can't measure knowledge and meditation but we can measure integrity and ethics. You measure high on the scale. Good for you.

Thanks for being a supporter.

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 19:12:03 (EST)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Isabella
Subject: Thanks Isabella! :) [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 19:05:10 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Isabella
Subject: Thank you Isabella
Message:
I appreciate that. It was just that the silence was getting deafening.

Isabella, why do you think neither Elan Vital, nor Maharaji have said anything about this? Don't you think they should? Have you contacted them to say how you feel?

As to Maharaji's 'style' all I can say is that I highly doubt this would be happening if he didn't condone this. And certainly since he failed to say anything about it the last time, and nothing now, he appears to be approving of it, even if he didn't instigate it.

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 22:48:21 (EST)
From: dv
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: If m doesn't condone it then these alledged
Message:
premies with their actions have split off from m's agya. New Age Jihad. Hmmm, where have I seen that lately? Hey, this may be the link to make this issue relevant enough for '60 Minutes!' The plot thickens...
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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 22:50:38 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: dv
Subject: Exactly [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 18:54:29 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Isabella
Subject: Isabella, a question
Message:
Isabella,

What do you think about Maharaji trashing personal letters to him from premies?

John.

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 19:02:01 (EST)
From: Isabella
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Re: Isabella, a question
Message:
Not easy to answer your question because of the way it was put (sort of like, 'When did you stop beating your wife?')

And, I also did not stop by to engage in any arguments (as Mr Finch mentions below, its not a particularly safe place for people like me).

I simply stopped by to let Joe know that I am one premie who re-affirms their abhorence of tactics like CAC. Just as I have let you know in the past that I am one premie who abhors the Jagdeo situation.

Best,
Is

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 19:26:37 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Isabella
Subject: Isabella, I did not attack you
Message:
Isabella,

Please read my question and your answer again. I did not accuse you of 'beating your wife' or anything equally bad. I asked you a simple question about one facet of Maharaji's behavior as revealed by John MacGregor. It really wasn't an attack, just a question to someone I know takes these issues seriously.

John.

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 20:31:29 (EST)
From: Isabella
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: It was a loaded question
Message:
I did not mean that you attacked me. But the question was 'How do you feel about Maharaji trashing letters from premies?' The question has a tone that seemed to disallow objectivity.

It was stated that he throws the letters away and does not typically read them. At least in my mind that is not the same as trashing them.

So, how do I feel about it? I guess I have a couple of thoughts on the subject:
1 - If he gets a large volume of them (volume was not mentioned), it would make sense that he wouldn't have time to read them all.
2 - On a certain level, I would hope that most of the people who have written these letters, at least over the past 15-20 years or so, would write them because they wanted to express something. And that, the feeling they had in writing them (especially if they were expressing gratitude) might be worth almost as much as the knowledge that he read them. So while John sort of mocks the experience of those premies who spent all day picking them out, perhaps to many of those people, the happiness they had in doing that was worth the price of admission. You'd have to ask them, I guess.

The few times I have sent him a note (very few), that was my experience. Not in some dreamy, magical way, but in a real, visceral way.

To be honest, I was more troubled about the bunnies, but then, I'm a rabid vegetarian. I long ago accepted that many people I love do not feel the same.

Take care,
Is

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 08:16:06 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Isabella
Subject: It wasn't meant to be
Message:
According to my dictionary, the verb trash means 'discard as worthless'. Isn't that what Maharaji does through his staff? I think you are a little defensive here.

Anyway, regarding the content of the letters, many people here had serious questions that they felt at the time only Maharaji could answer. They weren't all just expressing gratitude. Throwing those letters away without having anyone read them (and there have been no shortage of sincere people wanting to serve him) is an act of a callous man.

John.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 11:59:33 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Re: It wasn't meant to be
Message:
Callous but definitely calculated. Not reading the letters absolves him of any legal liability, once again. The Johnny Carson Show used to do the same thing, as I'm sure many entities do that do not want to be held accountable legally. In the case of the Carson show, it was to avoid being accused of using unsolicited material ie jokes, etc.

EV and it's little stash of lawyers are definitely up on corporate shenanigans and advise m accordingly. In his case, though, it may suit his indifference to premie's plights. The ole two birds with one stone.....

Although, there are federal sexual harrassment laws that state the company, etc etc are to be held responsible for the environment, whether or not they were told about the circumstances or person/persons inflicting the harrassment. They literally are required to know even if they don't "know".

So EV/M's claiming ignorance really doesn't hold water in the USA, but I'm sure they know this. And if the new information about EV dissolving comes true, they are probably just biding their time, stalling Abi and any others that have legitimate claims on m and ev. When Mata had control of DLM, that was one thing, but when M took on EV, even if they deny it, then he is responsible. Regardless, he individually, is responsible and more than likely can be sued on an individual basis, ie, why he refuses to meet with Abi or acknowledge receipt of notification concerning Jagdeo.

Only know this because the corporate world taught me well.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 16:51:32 (EST)
From: Francesca :C)
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: Astute and very true, Vicki
Message:
I'm sure, as many have discussed on this Forum over the years, the letters ranged from simple gratitude to people ready to commit suicide, and everything in between. Since he placed himself as the ultimate authority, people were asking. But his lawyers probably told him not to answer most of the letters, and to close the ashrams, too.

Bests,

--f

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 19:46:43 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Francesca :C)
Subject: Re: Astute and very true, Vicki
Message:
I'm sure, as many have discussed on this Forum over the years, the letters ranged from simple gratitude to people ready to commit suicide, and everything in between. Since he placed himself as the ultimate authority, people were asking. But his lawyers probably told him not to answer most of the letters, and to close the ashrams, too.

Bests,

--f


---

Just think of the personal liability Rawat had for the people in his ashrams. No wonder someone advised him to close them. Rawrat probably walked out of that meeting and told one of his lieutenants to 'do it.' I can't imagine any agonizing, soul searching or any thought out of him other than to protect his ASSets, which is all he is about anyway.

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 20:41:25 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Isabella
Subject: Ridiculous intellectual contortions? Mel?
Message:
I did not mean that you attacked me. But the question was 'How do you feel about Maharaji trashing letters from premies?' The question has a tone that seemed to disallow objectivity.

It was stated that he throws the letters away and does not typically read them. At least in my mind that is not the same as trashing them.

So, how do I feel about it? I guess I have a couple of thoughts on the subject:
1 - If he gets a large volume of them (volume was not mentioned), it would make sense that he wouldn't have time to read them all.
2 - On a certain level, I would hope that most of the people who have written these letters, at least over the past 15-20 years or so, would write them because they wanted to express something. And that, the feeling they had in writing them (especially if they were expressing gratitude) might be worth almost as much as the knowledge that he read them. So while John sort of mocks the experience of those premies who spent all day picking them out, perhaps to many of those people, the happiness they had in doing that was worth the price of admission. You'd have to ask them, I guess.

The few times I have sent him a note (very few), that was my experience. Not in some dreamy, magical way, but in a real, visceral way.

To be honest, I was more troubled about the bunnies, but then, I'm a rabid vegetarian. I long ago accepted that many people I love do not feel the same.

Take care,
Is


---

Mel,

Isn't this funny? Isabella saying that it's not really that important if Maharaji throws out premies' letters as they had such fun writing them? Now, here's a question for you: do you think Isabella actually believes this? That it's fine for Maharaji to deceive premies like this? Don't forget, it's not as if he ever said he doesn't read the letters. Indeed, back in my day, he said just the opposite.

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 21:09:05 (EST)
From: Isabella
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Ridiculous intellectual contortions? Mel?
Message:
I did not mean that you attacked me. But the question was 'How do you feel about Maharaji trashing letters from premies?' The question has a tone that seemed to disallow objectivity.

It was stated that he throws the letters away and does not typically read them. At least in my mind that is not the same as trashing them.

So, how do I feel about it? I guess I have a couple of thoughts on the subject:
1 - If he gets a large volume of them (volume was not mentioned), it would make sense that he wouldn't have time to read them all.
2 - On a certain level, I would hope that most of the people who have written these letters, at least over the past 15-20 years or so, would write them because they wanted to express something. And that, the feeling they had in writing them (especially if they were expressing gratitude) might be worth almost as much as the knowledge that he read them. So while John sort of mocks the experience of those premies who spent all day picking them out, perhaps to many of those people, the happiness they had in doing that was worth the price of admission. You'd have to ask them, I guess.

The few times I have sent him a note (very few), that was my experience. Not in some dreamy, magical way, but in a real, visceral way.

To be honest, I was more troubled about the bunnies, but then, I'm a rabid vegetarian. I long ago accepted that many people I love do not feel the same.

Take care,
Is


---

Mel,

Isn't this funny? Isabella saying that it's not really that important if Maharaji throws out premies' letters as they had such fun writing them? Now, here's a question for you: do you think Isabella actually believes this? That it's fine for Maharaji to deceive premies like this? Don't forget, it's not as if he ever said he doesn't read the letters. Indeed, back in my day, he said just the opposite.


---

Jim - you're such a trip.

Intellectual contortions. I would say you're a master of them. And proud of it, it would seem.

Gotta go now,
Is

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 21:24:53 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Isabella
Subject: Prove it
Message:
Intellectual contortions. I would say you're a master of them. And proud of it, it would seem.

Prove it.

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 18:42:57 (EST)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Joe, that's 3 sites -- you forgot ...
Message:
This one:

http://www.powow.com/right2hate/

The webhop.net site looks like some sort of free redirect service that someone was using to redirect the powow site. These CAC-o, crack-o people are like fungii or anthrax. The premie trolls are a disease, I'm afraid. They act like a disease, because their minds are diseased, and thus they display disease-like activity. And when you have a disease, you are SICK.

Apparently, Knowledge was NOT a cure. Ergo the sickness. Hope it's not terminal. They are a disgrace to their master who seems to have nothing to say these days. But then again, he never really had anything to say anyway, but for some of us, he spun a lotta cotton candy fluff.

Yucko.

Here's the info on webhop from the site in my link:
'The WebHop Redirection service provides web redirection services to complement our Dynamic and Static DNS services. The web redirection allows you to alias your long, hard-to-remember, ugly URLs to a short top-level hostname within one of our offered subdomains.

Hosts can be cloaked, hiding the true URL of your site from end users, or uncloaked. Cloaking for donators is totally invisible, but non-donators with cloaked sites will have a pop-up ad displayed. Donators also have the option of using a CNAME to point to their webhop. (The user must set this up him or herself.)

If you are having problems with your WebHop or just have questions, visit the WebHop support section of dyndns.org's support website.'
[ Webhop ]

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 19:00:06 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: No, that one's down (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 19:08:58 (EST)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: No, it's up
Message:
And I cleared my cache to make sure. That's 3 sites. The two you listed, and the one at the link.

--f
[ click the link ]

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 19:11:44 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: It's still only TWO
Message:
I put the same one with two addresses in my email. Sorry
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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 19:14:12 (EST)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: But one site has two URLS --
Message:
That's what I was pointing out.

the webhop and the powow sites are the same site, at two different URLS. That's because they used a redirect service for the second version of the same site.

So it makes two sites, at 3 URLS.

--f

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 19:15:40 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: Thanks, that explains it. (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 19:13:21 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Wait a minute
Message:
aren't the webhop and powow sites the same?

Are they in two different locations?

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 19:16:36 (EST)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Your guess is as good as mine
Message:
If you read the webhop stuff, it is specifically used to disguise URLS.

So right to hate has 2 urls. Whether it's redirecting the powow site, or redirecting the same web pages put at another location, I can't tell you. Only the fungii knows.

--f

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 18:32:55 (EST)
From: New York Sleuth
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Ira Glasser and Charles Glasser
Message:
The http://right2hate.webhop.net/ site includes a quote from Ira Glasser, Executive Director of ACLU. Ira Glasser appears to be based in NY, as is Charles. I've tried to find out if they are related (which would explain the link up) but have not been able to.

Perhaps someone else here has more information on this. If they are related, a letter to Ira about his son(?)'s activities might be effective.

NYS

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 17:19:43 (EST)
From: Michael McDonald
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Response to Macgregor
Message:
Firstly, I'd like to support and congratulate John Macgregor in his efforts to come to grips with the explosion of his dominant paradigm, aspects of which I have shared.

Secondly, I'd like to confirm that John is who he says he is, though premies and exes who know him could confirm that from the information he has already provided. I live some 20 kilometres 'up the road' from John and have known him since the early 70s, when he accurately described one of the pamphlets I had written for Divine Light Mission as 'trite'. As to my bona fides, I was at the training in September 99 that John mentions and others who were there will know that Mr Rawat noted the number of 'Macs' at the event (four in all, I believe) and made some sort of light-hearted remark about a Scottish takeover. Unlike John, I don't intend to give out my home address for anthrax mailings but if anyone, premie or ex, wants to debate the issues and paradigm at stake I can be reached at PO Box 257, Mullumbimby NSW 2482, Australia. (I made a similar offer when I 'resigned' from EV but I suspect it was only seen by one person.)

I hadn't visited this forum in months until a premie hunting for Pam piqued my curiosity. I went looking for Pam and suspected John to be 'her' from the intelligence of the writing (and the quotations from Jung) but didn't enquire further. I see John's 'coming out', as it were, as highly significant and indicative of the meltdown of a culture sustained over three decades in the West by a number of false premises, which include the artificial and psychologically damaging division of the human psyche into the 'heart' and the 'mind'; the schizoid presentation of an urbane EV to the world compared to the devotional EV which is the core of the organisation; and the belief, perpetuated by Mr Rawat either through his own delusion or sheer cynicism, and supported by an immense amount of trust from many good people, that the guiding presence behind EV is 'perfect', the corollary being it is okay to obey him implicitly and unquestioningly.

The last premise John characterised somewhere in his 5,000 word post as 'projection', a good ole-fashioned psychological term I tend to agree with in this case. It was us who poured our trust into Mr Rawat and made him assume in our eyes the powers of blissfulness, awareness, knowingness. whatever. You can also project that onto your lover or, to a lesser extent, onto your dog. Positing that Mr Rawat was divine sunk the hooks in even deeper. No wonder the smashing of that paradigm can be painful, no wonder so-called exes and premies alike can end up spitting venom at each other. Once out, however, the experience can be liberating as well as confusing. It was quite a step as a 50-year-old man to say to myself, Maharaji has no greater grasp of 'reality' than do I. And to extend that even further, to consider the whole history of mysticism and meditation may have no absolute basis, that for example, the experience of bliss may just be an evolutionary mechanism for a big brain to cope with the passage of time or to manufacture hope.

But that's the subject of another post. In the meantime, I hope it all doesn't end in tears, but the disintegration of large chunks of the EV structure seems ever more likely. As John and I discussed on the phone, it is a remarkable piece of history to watch a paradigm fall apart, especially when it's your own.

(Then again, the Catholic church has flourished for centuries on far less subtle propositions, and a lot more real estate. If Amaroo can be sold and the organisation re-structured, perhaps EV can toddle along like the Theosophical Society for another century or so.)

As John noted of the forum, somewhat tongue-in-cheek, 'After the years of EV's information-suppression, in-group secrets and language-distortion, this feels to me like a borderline spiritual experience.' It is the miserly control and manipulation of information which could be EV's and Mr Rawat's downfall. When I found myself as an EV PR person making statements which went dead against my instincts as an information-hungry journalist, cracks appeared in the paradigm.

Earlier cracks appeared as a result of the training John mentioned. Stay tuned for more.

Michael McDonald

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:24:18 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Michael McDonald
Subject: Hi Michael.
Message:
Hi Mike,

Good to read your post, confirming the cult is falling apart at the seams. You read it here first. And heartening to see another escapee get over the wire from Camp Cultitz.

What's all this 'training' bollocks? We never had that in my day. Shit, in the 70s you could attain liberation on devotion alone. I don't know what the world's coming to.

I disagree with your vision of the type of cult that will exist after everyone else has gone home. I think it will be more 'snake biters' than 'theosphists'. Snake biters, with a pinch of fascism, dash of Micky Mouse, teaspoon of Michael Jackson, and 4 oz of used car salesman.

Anth, yeah for I have seen the future and spake. As it is typed on the internet, so shall it be. Aaagh. Uggh. (collapses in spiritual ecstasy).

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 15:17:32 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: FA
Subject: FA, can you delete this post please.
Message:
It's a computer error.
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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 23:08:49 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Michael McDonald
Subject: Hi Michael
Message:
It's really nice of you to drop by and support your friend.

It's also a great thing that you can have someone to relate to at this fragile time in your life. The forum is nice but personal friends are better.

What form did 'the PAM hunt' take? I thought Maha just said 'if you don't like, than leave? So, what's the big deal to them.

I find that freaky and very dangerous that they would act like bounty hunters. The whole cult is creepy. Do you think that a lot of x-rated premies afraid? How scary MAHA has become.

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Date: Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 23:32:12 (EST)
From: Michael McDonald
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: Re: Hi Michael
Message:
It's really nice of you to drop by and support your friend.

It's also a great thing that you can have someone to relate to at this fragile time in your life. The forum is nice but personal friends are better.

What form did 'the PAM hunt' take? I thought Maha just said 'if you don't like, than leave? So, what's the big deal to them.

I find that freaky and very dangerous that they would act like bounty hunters. The whole cult is creepy. Do you think that a lot of x-rated premies afraid? How scary MAHA has become.


---

I wouldn't quite put it in the same category as bounty hunting. An EV director emailed me and politely asked if I knew who Pam was. John can testify that others received similar enquiries. John's server was obviously traced to this area. In PR terms, it is research for the purposes of damage control and/or legal action, though I would suggest defamation proceedings against Macgregor would bring on one almighty headache for EV.

I'd rate it as a little creepy, but no creepier than the way a lot of corporations behave. It's important to understand that if EV is pushed to the wall, it will fight back. And it is important for EV to understand that putting up hate sites, if this is the case, is no viable alternative to real dialogue with the disaffected.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 00:16:34 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Michael McDonald
Subject: Michael, more clarification
Message:
You're saying they are just handling this just like any other corporation would do but it appears to be taking on the form of how Scientology handles it's defectors.

I'm not looking to make inflamatory comments just for the hell of it. My concern is real. Look at CAC and look at Scientology cyberstalking site hurting their defectors. Please elaborate.

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 21:57:59 (EST)
From: SC
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: Quote of the week folks
Message:
'I'm not looking to make inflamatory comments just for the hell of it.'

No no no, there's absolutely NO record of this kind of thing in your file dear.

Why on earth would YOU THINK that's the impression you constantly give?

I can't imagine...

aahh, guilt's a bitch ain't it?

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 23:37:20 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: SC
Subject: ***CULT HARRASSMENT***
Message:
To any officer or other perosn of the law,

This person, David Roupell, has been harrassing me from the day I arrived at the EPO forum. He would change his handles at least ten times, in order to outnumber me and all of the posts were bent on viciously attacking me.

This was very confusing to me at first, as I thought all the members of the cult had gone insane.

His posts are frequently followed by his accomplice CATWEASEL who are primarily targeting all the women and disturbing us with mysogonistic comments. As their years of posts will prove, their writing is a chilling similarity to the authorship of the CAC harrassment sites. I'm sure you can imagine our concerns.

They never address our posts. They attack to instill fear and control over us and silence our comments and concerns regarding Maharaji.

Please contact me through Mr. Conlon or Mr. Sprague if you would like further comment on this account.

Sincerely yours,

Deborah Rose

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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 09:30:35 (EST)
From: The Evil Scary Catweasell
Email: None
To:

Subject: More like PARANOIA
Message:



Copyright 1997 Paradise Web Enahancements


All Rights Reserved

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