Michael McDonald -:- Response to David Lovejoy -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 17:15:06 (EST)

Nottingham Bunny -:- Amma - does anyone here have any info? -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 16:55:59 (EST)

Carlos -:- OT: Afganistan is FREE! of the Taliban -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 13:28:25 (EST)

__ Deborah -:- Re: OT: Afganistan is FREE! of the Taliban -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 13:59:44 (EST)

__ __ Sir Dave -:- Well madam, if I might be so bold -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 14:57:23 (EST)

__ __ __ Deborah -:- Thanks Dave [nt] -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 15:33:34 (EST)

gerry -:- The Janice of Slovenia Speaks -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 11:59:41 (EST)

__ Cynthia -:- Tears from an Onion?? -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 15:29:56 (EST)

__ Joe -:- God, what low self-esteem -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 12:53:48 (EST)

__ __ no shuckle -:- The NEEDY state -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 13:48:12 (EST)

From ELK -:- Hans Jayanti 2001!!! -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 11:18:58 (EST)

__ JHB -:- This is all I can find -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 15:55:24 (EST)

__ __ From ELK -:- Re: This is all I can find -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 16:09:04 (EST)

__ Mahatma Coat -:- So blissful, by His grace!!! -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 13:51:50 (EST)

Repost of John MacGregor -:- The Second Coming (part 1) -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 08:58:24 (EST)

__ Repost of John MacGregor -:- The Second Coming (part 2) -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 09:01:55 (EST)

__ __ Jean-Michel -:- It's all here to stay on EPO ! -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 09:28:29 (EST)

__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Sorry for the bad link -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 09:29:31 (EST)

__ __ __ __ Katie -:- Yeah, but J-M... -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 10:13:52 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Do you mean I'm useless???? -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 10:49:24 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- You and me both... -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 15:58:44 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ RichMandrake -:- Dont You Dare!! -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 11:42:40 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- OK OK !!!! don't worry -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 12:53:18 (EST)

Searcher -:- FBI investiigating EV -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 03:11:26 (EST)

__ Deborah -:- Is this suppose -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 14:06:45 (EST)

__ Peg -:- Who put this up? -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 04:45:52 (EST)

__ __ Pat:C) -:- SC/David Roupell posted it -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 12:57:24 (EST)

__ __ Katie -:- Yes, a joke (Hi Peg!) [nt] -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 09:04:00 (EST)

__ __ AJW -:- Not a joke Peg. -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 05:52:44 (EST)

__ __ __ RichMandrake -:- Does Anyone have any Evidence.. -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 09:21:34 (EST)

__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Rich ..... just how old are you anyway? -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 09:32:36 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ RichMandrake -:- Im Glad you put so Much EMPHASIS ON MY WORDS... -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 09:50:06 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Your call, of course -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 14:20:43 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Rm -:- I do know how to write as taught.. -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 09:57:25 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- You should do a trade with Donner [nt] -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 11:47:14 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- or janet the other e e cummings of F7 [nt] -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 14:27:09 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- But seriously, Rich -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 14:38:47 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Barbara -:- I make believe it's a Bodice Ripper -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 14:50:01 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- and Bodice Rippers still sell more than.... -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 16:31:34 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- nOW THAT'S FUNNY! [nt] -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 14:09:29 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- That's funny }) [nt] -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 14:09:10 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- I Like the Capital Letters, Rich [nt] -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 10:28:53 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- WHY? bECAUSE IT'S HARDER TO READ? [nt] -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 14:10:29 (EST)

__ __ __ SC -:- Their only weapons are spite, personal attack -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 06:05:30 (EST)

__ __ __ __ AJW -:- I stand by every word. -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 06:12:54 (EST)

__ __ Zelda -:- stupid post [nt] -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 05:58:57 (EST)

__ __ __ Cult Spotter -:- SC = Stupid CACweasel (nt) -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 15:28:18 (EST)

__ __ __ Deborah -:- Zelda, were you expecting more? [nt] -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 14:12:59 (EST)

__ __ __ __ ZZelda -:- Im insulted -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 15:39:09 (EST)

G -:- The Master Blaster -:- Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 18:16:13 (EST)

__ Joe -:- LOL -- well done, perfect in fact. (nt -:- Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 18:37:06 (EST)

__ __ G -:- thanks, it was difficult ... -:- Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 18:44:13 (EST)

__ __ __ G -:- Here's an update, his brother and/or cousin, -:- Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 19:14:18 (EST)

__ __ __ __ Joe -:- Great, but where are the wabbits?? -:- Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 19:31:48 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ Disculta -:- Remember this line? -:- Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 19:55:45 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- My Favorite Line.... -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 13:42:13 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- Does Prempal identify with Elmer? -:- Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 21:13:02 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- That's 'W'abbititus you wascally G! -:- Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 21:54:32 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- Oh weally? -:- Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 22:11:43 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- May be something wrong with the server ... -:- Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 22:35:48 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- I just saw it Stonor -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 10:30:15 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- You're right, Cynthia (and G ...) -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 14:52:06 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- -itis -:- Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 22:53:53 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- You mean he's shot them ALL?!!! -:- Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 22:59:32 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- Couldn't have -:- Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 23:05:43 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Disculta -:- Wait a minute -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 05:47:17 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- That's Not Hunting... -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 10:42:17 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- Re: That's Not Hunting... -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 12:37:49 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Because Maharaji is so Sadistic... -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 15:20:24 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Dear Disculta -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 09:03:04 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Desperate Dan -:- He's even got his own forum -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 06:52:27 (EST)

Elan Vital -:- Press Release -:- Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 17:56:13 (EST)

__ Andrea Eriksonn -:- Thank you, EV, I'm so grateful... -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 17:16:33 (EST)

Joe -:- Pictures of John MacGregor and David Lovejoy -:- Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 17:16:23 (EST)

__ Hippocrates -:- Re: Pictures of John MacGregor and David Lovejoy -:- Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 23:24:20 (EST)

__ Stonor -:- MacGregor is an award winning novelist too. -:- Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 21:44:01 (EST)

__ Abi -:- Re: Pictures of John MacGregor and David Lovejoy -:- Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 18:20:38 (EST)

__ __ Lesley -:- It's a good high quality local newspaper -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 00:03:10 (EST)

__ __ __ Joe -:- Thanks Lesley -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 12:39:43 (EST)

__ __ __ __ Lesley -:- No matter who you vote for a politician gets in OT -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 13:54:22 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- I wish we had preferential voting -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 14:37:33 (EST)

__ __ Joe -:- Yes, a community paper -:- Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 18:36:20 (EST)

__ JHB -:- Anth and Lovejoy -:- Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 17:37:11 (EST)

__ __ AJW -:- I am David Lovejoys love child. -:- Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 18:37:56 (EST)

__ Joe -:- Question re elections (OT) -:- Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 17:24:29 (EST)

__ __ CW -:- Re: Question re elections (OT) -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 01:45:01 (EST)

JHB -:- White Pages Updates -:- Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 17:06:07 (EST)

Elan Vital -:- Do you have a Smart Card yet?? -:- Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 14:07:26 (EST)

__ Cynthia -:- It's Called Cult Paranoia -:- Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 15:50:02 (EST)

__ Richard -:- Yes! Here's mine. -:- Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 15:24:58 (EST)

__ __ Deborah -:- Yeah!! That's cool, really cool [nt] -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 15:17:57 (EST)

__ __ Barry -:- Yes! Nice job Richard!(nt) -:- Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 20:03:34 (EST)

__ __ Tim G -:- LOVE the card. nt -:- Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 15:45:27 (EST)

__ __ __ Richard -:- Thanks y'all -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 16:41:13 (EST)

Abi -:- Questions for CW -:- Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 10:47:27 (EST)

__ CW -:- Will the accused please answer!!!! -:- Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 18:24:47 (EST)

__ __ salsa -:- hahhahahahha -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 06:20:08 (EST)

__ __ __ Deborah -:- Re: hahhahahahha -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 14:20:54 (EST)

__ __ Abi -:- Re: Will the accused please answer!!!! -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 01:26:10 (EST)

__ __ Jim -:- No, Cat, not the accused, the witness -:- Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 22:13:20 (EST)

__ __ __ CW -:- Jim? Did I speak to Jim? -:- Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 22:43:25 (EST)

__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Yes, Cat, you were speaking to my heart [nt] -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 14:11:41 (EST)

salsa -:- American Airlines plane went down -:- Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 10:15:26 (EST)

__ Sir Dave -:- What eyewitnesses say -:- Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 13:36:19 (EST)

Desperate Dan -:- Those changes in full -:- Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 07:34:11 (EST)

__ Ranger Rick -:- But wasn't amaroo declared a.. -:- Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 10:48:07 (EST)

__ __ The Dept of Enviroment. -:- Re: But wasn't amaroo declared a.. -:- Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 18:27:42 (EST)

__ __ __ The Dept of Enviroment -:- Ranger Catweasel -:- Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 19:35:05 (EST)

__ __ LOL -:- Re: But wasn't amaroo declared a.. -:- Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 10:59:56 (EST)

J -:- CW:Looking for info... -:- Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 05:08:38 (EST)

__ Deborah -:- Re: CW:Looking for info... -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 14:54:06 (EST)

__ Small Planet Catweasel -:- Re: CW:Looking for info... -:- Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 07:44:34 (EST)

__ __ AJW -:- What me Paranoid? -:- Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 11:51:05 (EST)

__ AJW -:- Yes, a good idea. -:- Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 07:00:31 (EST)

__ Tim G -:- Re: CW:Looking for info... -:- Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 06:11:29 (EST)

__ __ CW -:- Hey J!!! -:- Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 07:47:34 (EST)

__ __ __ Gail -:- THE ONE, THE ONLY CAAAAATWHEEESAAL! -:- Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 17:57:55 (EST)

__ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Hey Gail, I had similar experiences -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 14:35:21 (EST)

__ __ __ __ CW -:- Re: THE ONE, THE ONLY CAAAAATWHEEESAAL! -:- Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 19:15:43 (EST)

__ __ __ Abi -:- Re: Hey J!!! -:- Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 08:52:38 (EST)

gerry -:- Said Simple Simon to the Pieman... -:- Sun, Nov 11, 2001 at 21:53:22 (EST)

__ Peter, Peter Pumpkin eater -:- Had a wife and couldn't cheat her -:- Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 03:55:56 (EST)

__ __ ()) -:- ()) -:- Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 13:18:56 (EST)

__ Francesca -:- Oh, oh. The bad seed! ~) [nt] -:- Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 01:02:17 (EST)

Messenger Boy -:- Life is Great needs a blood transfusion -:- Sun, Nov 11, 2001 at 15:20:15 (EST)

__ bill -:- Here is todays post -:- Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 09:04:00 (EST)

__ __ JohnT -:- I believe! -:- Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 08:47:49 (EST)

__ __ bill-anyone that thinks the song -:- IMAGINE has validity, please respond to above -:- Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 09:29:18 (EST)

__ SC -:- well surprise surprise -:- Sun, Nov 11, 2001 at 20:59:46 (EST)

__ __ Pat:C) -:- Out enjoying life unlike you -:- Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 04:01:27 (EST)

__ Deborah -:- Three guesses WHY? -:- Sun, Nov 11, 2001 at 18:57:00 (EST)

__ __ Brian Smith -:- The 3rd guess is because you are banned from there [nt] -:- Sun, Nov 11, 2001 at 19:54:50 (EST)

__ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Exes banned or bored and... -:- Sun, Nov 11, 2001 at 20:10:04 (EST)

__ __ __ __ SC -:- 3 Pat 3 -:- Sun, Nov 11, 2001 at 21:06:16 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- You're sounding like a dork -:- Sun, Nov 11, 2001 at 21:43:38 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Desperate Dan -:- Where dorks don't go -:- Sun, Nov 11, 2001 at 22:43:56 (EST)

IT IS SO -:- Fragmentation revisited -:- Sun, Nov 11, 2001 at 10:19:59 (EST)

__ salsa -:- bad link NT -:- Sun, Nov 11, 2001 at 10:44:31 (EST)

__ __ sorry -:- try again -:- Sun, Nov 11, 2001 at 12:04:38 (EST)

Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 17:15:06 (EST) From: Michael McDonald Email: mcduck@echo.net.au To: All Subject: Response to David Lovejoy Message:

It seems a little strange responding to David Lovejoy through the medium of the internet when he and John Macgregor and I could be sharing a bottle of red at a local hostelry, but I suppose it keeps the friction of this argument out of our working relationship. It was also unfortunate that David chose David Roupell, given his lack of credibility on this forum, to post his message. However, David Lovejoy is a good man and I would ask you to bear some kindness for him if you find that possible. It should be noted he has at least attempted to post an argument rather than indulge in the usual flaming of the flaming Roupells of this world, although he does it without much knowledge of the context in which he posts, and I doubt that he would be persuaded to visit here. David has been somewhat disingenuous in posting a message which fails to take into account all of my private responses to him. He wrote here: 'Stripped down to the core, John's case seems to be that Maharaji is human and Elan Vital is not a democracy. Neither of these insights strikes me as revolutionary. But Michael agrees, and for good measure throws in his belief that 'brain science' may disprove mysticism.' I responded in private: 'John will probably answer on his own behalf but his case is more likely to be that even if EV is not a democracy, it is publicly accountable for its behaviour when it acts badly, as is Maharaji (or you or I) as a human being, as it engages in activities in the public domain. You misrepresent me as to my 'belief'. What I did say is, 'the whole history of mysticism and meditation may have no absolute basis, that for example, the experience of bliss may just be an evolutionary mechanism for a big brain to cope with the passage of time or to manufacture hope.' It's a big 'may' and I have no certainty on the topic, despite considerable experience with meditation and psychotropics. The discussion of democracy is irrelevant. The Echo [the paper we edit], of which you are the 'undemocratic head', is not a democracy but it treats those who choose to work there in a more rational and responsive way than does EV its own. This reflects on Maharaji and the value of his work if he is 'the font and origin of the organisation'. David wrote here: 'In other words, rather than railing against the fact that there is a pyramid structure necessarily associated with Maharaji I chose to withdraw from it. This seems to be an elementary political perception, but John and Michael have suddenly discovered the undemocratic nature of Elan Vital and wish to proclaim it to the world. In fact Michael tells me that he has known this for twenty years but didn't want to go publicly against 'the party line'. (Is there a 'party line' to proclaim that EV is democratic?)' I responded in private: 'Hardly a sudden discovery, and one that I've thought about for a couple of decades before publicly going against the 'party line'. 'Wishing to proclaim it to the world' is fatuous; the point is there is a serious discussion going on of how EV and by association Maharaji treat people.' David wrote here: 'Or is it sinister by virtue of its laidback non-sinister appearance, and manipulative because it eschews manipulation? Michael takes me up on this and says it is manipulative at every stage because its sole purpose is to persuade people to accept Maharaji and Knowledge.' Well, not exactly, what I wrote in private was: 'Oh please. Manipulation is built in at every stage of the organisation, from the 'laidback' video presentations through to the aspirant program, knowledge session, and on to the trainings, the whole raison d'etre of which is to confirm that Maharaji is the sole basis of belief and action, without question. One could say the same of our genetic code, of course, but the question is, does the ends justify the means? If you believe knowledge to be the best thing since sliced bliss, perhaps yes, but one would expect the outcomes of its practice to be an organisation and master a tad more forthright in their intentions.' David wrote here: 'In the early days Maharaji allowed to be expressed, and in some ways expressed himself, the idea of his godhood. Comparative cultural studies don't seem to have had much impact on those who keep bringing this up. There they are, freaked out like any card-carrying Christian, Moslem or Jew about the blasphemy of a human declaring himself god. Funny how those thought structures remain long after the content has gone: I can't imagine either John or Michael admitting to being a Christian, but it's the ghost Christian in them that is offended.' I responded in private: 'You could hardly call being brought up a non-practising Anglican as any thing worthy of conjuring ghosts, and it's a big assumption on your part that that's a chord being touched. Let's try hypocrisy instead; if you think Maharaji has demurred from the authority of godhead [sic] traditionally associated with the perfect master, try taking a training with him. It is just not solely the 'sort of nonsense… encouraged by Indians who didn't understand our conceptually unprotected minds'. Mind you, I freely admit I'm not beyond hypocrisy, but then again I don't allow myself to be feted as the 'superior power in person'.' David wrote here: 'In fact what is going on here in Australia is a federal election which has just been won by a government that gloats over scorning every civilised convention. It is sycophantically supporting the US bombing Afghani civilians out of their homes and then turning them away when they arrive on our borders as refugees. Every ounce of energy is needed to oppose this evil and my two best writers are pissing theirs away on this non-issue!' This was not in our original correspondence and David tries too hard to take the moral high ground, as I'm sure he's not using 'every ounce of energy' to oppose the machinations of our ultra conservative government. John and I can stand quite happily on our track record in the field of 'serious' journalism. David wrote here: 'Finally, the obsessive detail in which John reveals his own identity is like some kind of electronic striptease and sounds, frankly, like someone on the verge of a nervous breakdown.' David has a tendency to suspect the worst when someone veers from a predictable path. I'll leave John to make his own response when he returns from mucking about in houseboats. On the upside, one could take David's post as something of a breakthrough. It may be the first time a staunch defender of Mr Rawat has put up an articulate argument on this forum as opposed to the usual platitudes or sarcasm. Cheers, Michael McDonald

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 16:55:59 (EST) From: Nottingham Bunny Email: None To: All Subject: Amma - does anyone here have any info? Message:

'world renowned saint, mystic, and philanthropist....' so her website says. As you can imagine I have my opinion on this - anything sniffing of cult, master and fraud and I run as fast as I can. A dear friend of mine is planning to go to Amma's ('the hugging saint') Indian Ashram for Ayurvedic treatments and TLC. It may be fine but does anyone have any facts that would be useful to my girlfriend? Concerned Bunny

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 13:28:25 (EST) From: Carlos Email: None To: All Subject: OT: Afganistan is FREE! of the Taliban Message:

But it still remains to be seen if a new government can be created, by the Afgan people themselves, and bin Laden/el Quayda (sp) still need to be rooted out. Yet the signs of the Afgans being perhaps able to avoid civil war and create something all Afgans can life with, thus far, are good. The Northern Alliance took Kabul when the Taliban abandoned it, yes; but they are inviting the tribal leaders to meet with them for talks to lead to a wide based government and are being careful to do 'security of the people of Kabuk' type occupation, as opposed to a military style occupation, only. And hunting down the terrorists and any pockets of Taliban who seek to be gurillas, while it will likely be time consuming, will now be easier to do, and much less risky. And, truly, Life is Great! This whole Taliban, war againsr Afganistan, thing, has wrapped itself up far more quickly than anyone could have reasonably hoped for.

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 13:59:44 (EST) From: Deborah Email: None To: Carlos Subject: Re: OT: Afganistan is FREE! of the Taliban Message:

Carlos, I've been away for two days and the whole world changes. Can you get a link to read more. Any details would be appreciated. Two days and the world changes. Amazing!

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 14:57:23 (EST) From: Sir Dave Email: None To: Deborah Subject: Well madam, if I might be so bold Message:

Click on the above link. [ The liberation of Kabul ]

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 15:33:34 (EST) From: Deborah Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: Thanks Dave [nt] Message:

[nt]

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 11:59:41 (EST) From: gerry Email: None To: All Subject: The Janice of Slovenia Speaks Message:

Stojan Svet My gratitude to the onion Stojan from Postojna in Slovenia remembers when he received Knowledge One of these morning, when I was practising Knowledge I don't know why, but I remembered the mahatma who showed me the techniques of Knowledge on 21 August 1977. Someone asked him what the realization of this Knowledge was like, and he replied: 'What do you get, if you peel away one layer of an onion?' The person's answer was:'A little smaller onion.' ' So what do you get at the end if you continue with that peeling?' The person's answer was:'Nothing.' (Looking back now my answer would have probably been:'Crying.') 'You see that nothing is the realization of this Knowledge...' I remember we were at that time all laughing... But how true this anecdote really is. I feel so like that onion. After practising my master's Knowledge I have lost one layer after another of my false identifications. And than I come to that sweet little nothing ,which is really everything, my clarity, my appreciation and my gratitude. These precious moments are my pure heartfelt feelings and fulfillment... My practising, listening to my master and my participation help me to sustain this heartfelt feeling, but without my master's constant support and reminding of how important this breath and the gift of his Knowledge are, I wouldn't even have started to remove all these layers of false identifications. Why? Without this recognition, I can't recognize these gifts, and without recognition of these gifts I can't feel gratitude to the giver, and without gratitude in the realm of my heart simply nothing ever works for me. And if simply nothing ever works I simply wouldn't feel any need to do something that doesn't bring me results. So dealing with this onion it always brings me to tears of one kind or another, but I have always a choice between choosing the layers of my false identifications or my sweet gratitude. I have chosen my gratitude... Talk about your convoluted rationalizations... How can anyone get to such point? He's right about one thing, 'Knowledge' is nothing...

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 15:29:56 (EST) From: Cynthia Email: None To: gerry Subject: Tears from an Onion?? Message:

A long time ago in premieland Hartford, we were having a Sunday potluck dinner. Nothing unusual, but I was peeling onions and an aspirant said to to me, ''I heard once that if you stick your tongue back in your throat, that onions won't make you tear up.'' Winks and smirks went all around the premies, us, the ones 'who knew' the irony of her statement, and oh how we couldn't wait until she got k so we could joke with her afterwards about her remark. I think the above quote is nothing but rubbish from rubbish. Maharaji-speak. It's not ironic at all how he degrades people to the point of wanting to be nothing. It's planned, calculated, and turned into 'that gratitude.' How sad... Cynthia

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 12:53:48 (EST) From: Joe Email: None To: gerry Subject: God, what low self-esteem Message:

Wow, what a piece of weird shit that is. What gets me about premies is, on the one hand, they lament how screwed up they are, like Janice saying she is 'layered' with 'false identifications' like she is some kind of leper or something in need of a cure, and how if it weren't for Maharaji's constant reminder, she wouldn't remember to breathe. Where the hell did she get such screwed up ideas, I mean other than from Maharaji, who says it constantly? Why does she believe him? Then, on the other hand, there is this immense spiritual ego in premies. The 'Please Consider This' website just oozes with it. They have no qualms about saying with the greatest authority about the nature of all peopple, how they perceive things and what they need. PCT is particularly egotistical, by saying that anybody who doesn't agree is just hateful, confused, and holding on to rigid concepts. I find this duality in premies very funny.

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 13:48:12 (EST) From: no shuckle Email: None To: Joe Subject: The NEEDY state Message:

Low self-esteem, by the ocurtesy of the master, him, the one who keep you weak and needy... of him of course, but a premie cannot notice because in the process of becoming a premie he had to surrender, had to put 'someone' at top, someone superior. The master gets sure that he keeps all that way, you down, and needy, so you cannot leave. Is funny of is all about the heart but all premies think and talk a like. I wonder why? Is for the mind too, isn't? Is only for the mind, is a program written in your head...morons. The spiritual ego part is great. The rigidity learned by the greace of the master are the shackles, and all smile, whistling away, feeling special. How different all look from the outside, so clear. The duality is a product of the master too; he puts that concept there to convince you that you need help or you will be lost in 'that' duality. What a moron, and we do not have the right to talk about OUR account? Master asked you to surrender your ego; how convinient and safe for him. Nobody to rebel against him, all weak and needy.

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 11:18:58 (EST) From: From ELK Email: None To: All Subject: Hans Jayanti 2001!!! Message:

ELK reports on this year's glorious Hans Jayanti celebration in New Delhi! It was held in 'the Blue Tent,' where 2000 devotees watched videos of Shri Hans and Maharaji. Maharaji was unable to attend. No reasons were given. All who attended were filled with gratitude at the abundance of grace. See the 'Around the Planet' section. Meanwhile, Satpal celebrated Hans Jayanti with his devotees, also in New Delhi. No report yet on his website.

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 15:55:24 (EST) From: JHB Email: None To: From ELK Subject: This is all I can find Message:

Hans Jayanti in Delhi Maharaji was not able to attend the three day Hans Jayanti event planned for this week. An event was held at the Knowledge centre to commemorate the anniversary of the birth of Maharaji's father and master,Sri Hans Ji Maharaj and was attended by people from the Delhi area. Have they changed the entry or am I looking in the wrong place? Anyway, when did Maharaji last miss Hans Jayanti? Looks like he really has lost it. John.

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 16:09:04 (EST) From: From ELK Email: None To: JHB Subject: Re: This is all I can find Message:

Also look under 'expressions' for a first hand account of the festivities.

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 13:51:50 (EST) From: Mahatma Coat Email: None To: From ELK Subject: So blissful, by His grace!!! Message:

Jai satchit anand, Yes, please. I am thanking you so much for reminding me of this most holy and blissful event. Such bliss to be going to the Blue Tent. It is much like Mecca or the Christian Holy Land. Some say it is just a tent but, as Sant Ji has said many years ago 'this Knowledge is so, so perfect - wherever it goes - zap - become perfect'. So Blue Tent is holy shrine to Sant Ji and his Father Hans Ji. My eyes run with tears like the Holy Ganges runs with mountain snow melt. I have been so, so fortunate to have been among the blessed 2 lak (2000) premies allowed by Guru's grace to enter such a holy shrine and see magic of video. I weep for joy to see my Guru Ji and his Guru Ji. Since Sant Ji left Mother India to save the drug-crazed hippies, Mahatma Ji can only see him once in awhile. Now, with grace of satellite dish, which I think Maharaji has created, whole world can truly know who is Guru Maharaj Ji. Plus, I don't have to walk three days in dust and heat to have darshan. Now I get it by kissing television. By gum, by golly. This is maybe, how you say, not "sink crow niced" but I must say it now.... Bhole Shri SatGuru Dave Maharaj Ki Jai!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mahatma Coat

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 08:58:24 (EST) From: Repost of John MacGregor Email: None To: All Subject: The Second Coming (part 1) Message:

SPOT THE DIFFERENCE: 1.'In early July I spoke in five cities around Korea. There, I declared that my wife, WFWP President Hak Ja Han Moon, and I are the True Parents of all humanity. I declared that we are the Savior, the Lord of the Second Advent, the Messiah.' - Rev. Moon, Unification News August 24, 1992 2. 'Sri Sai Baba lived, acted and behaved as only a 'God descended on Earth' can.' - Website of the late Sai Baba of Shirdi 3. 'Leland told me, 'Swami's job isn't to make you happy, it's to liberate you.' In his case, that meant giving up his career as a motivational speaker and then his marriage. 'Sai Baba is the most powerful being that ever came to the planet,' he said... Somewhere between 10 million and 50 million people worship Sai Baba as God incarnate.' - salon.com story on the currently living Sai Baba 4. 'Has there been such a king before? Krishna was not such a king. Rama was not such a king. There were lesser powers in Ram, there were lesser powers in Krishna, but I have come to the world with full powers.' - Maharaji (Peace Bomb ) 5. Doctor (approaching bed of mental patient): Good morning - what's your name? Patient: Napoleon. Doctor: I see... And who told you you were Napoleon? Patient: God told me. Voice from next bed: I did not! Dear Ex-folk - and premies, There were quite a few posts so far in response to my first one (I gave up counting after 200), so it may be hard to respond to everyone individually, unless I hire secretarial staff. Therefore I'll just say general things, and respond to some popular themes. If I've dodged a specific question you asked, it's probably because I don't know the answer - tho you can try me again if you think it's important. Most responses were very positive - thanks. I feel a little safer here now, and am inching toward posting under my real name. But I'll do this in my own time - so no pressure please. Try to remember what it's like in those first fragile, difficult months. The fragility is compounded when you send off a post like my last one, by 200+ posters wanting more information - as well as premie critics saying either I don't exist or I made it all up. On top of that, the Pam post was circulated quite widely from exes to premies, then from premies to other premies - with the result that there was an EV campaign to unearth Pam. This resulted in quite a few waverers and recent exiters being hassled by EV - including myself. On top of that, many of those whom I could formerly talk to about problems of this magnitude are avoiding me. And the entire intellectual framework I would have had for dealing with it is gone. So be kind, and be patient. Additionally, whilst one's rational mind has finally realized that Maharaji has blown it (seriously and forever), one's nervous system still has some catching up to do: so doubts and fears surface regularly. It's not an easy time. I say this not merely to evoke pity for myself (!), but to warn premie readers of what lies ahead for them, when the dissolution of Maharaji's Western empire gathers steam over the next year or two. The transition out of cloud cuckoo land is not a comfortable one: be ready for some serious intensity. But also be aware that there is a large global community of (IMO) helpful, insightful people who will do anything they can to help you. For all the raucousness of the forum, the ex-premie community is everything the premie community should have been, but signally failed to be: egalitarian, compassionate, irreverent, mutually supportive. The ex-premie community also embraces the free flow of information. After the years of EV's information-suppression, in-group secrets and language-distortion, this feels to me like a borderline spiritual experience. I might add, for the benefit of exes, that the next year or so will (IMO) be one which taxes us as never before. The trickle of defectors (i.e. people needing an awful lot of help) is likely to grow into a torrent. Anyway... As for the claim of fabricating or embellishing my information, I guess this is reasonable speculation: after all, I didn't give the names of the people from whom the information derives. (They/we didn't want this.) For all that, I think a lot of my information can be checked for accuracy. For instance, there may be someone on this forum who could ask Glen whether he wrote the confidential 'Jagdeo' memorandum to Deepak when I said he did. (Less than half a dozen people in EV saw this memo: it was not exactly plastered across First Class.) Someone else may know a person who is or was in the Personal/Executive Area, who could verify whether M's staff are trained to lie to Marolyn about Monica. Numerous staff have been trained in this: it has been institutionalized for some years. I can't believe we can't find at least one person to confirm it here. Someone else may have been to the IOC in Delhi in the late 1990s, and seen Jagdeo there. (For the record, we exchanged a few words, then he picked up the phone on the windowsill of the small IOC office, and began making a call.) And so on. Those doing the checking could then report back to the forum. Obviously not everything could be corroborated - premies, even exes, may not talk about everything - but perhaps enough to form a 'pattern of credibility' (Jim no doubt can give us the correct legal phrase), and thus satisfy the critics. There are people lurking on this forum already, BTW, who (collectively) could verify nearly everything in these posts. So far they don't feel this is a safe place for them. I hope that will change. There's also the small matter of EV's Pam-hunt of recent weeks. Quite a few premies who haven't been heard from for a while, among others, have been called up by EV organizers and instructors in various parts of the US and Australia, in a quest for Pam. If the post was a series of fictions, or mere embellishments of known facts, why all the fuss? For the record: The information in my posts derives from my own experience, the experiences of exes whom I know well, and the experiences of premies who are still in the fold. I am a real person. I am not a regular poster here. I am not a fiction created by a regular poster here. I am not an amalgam of several people. I have told very few people of my identity, and none of them has told anyone else - let alone told a premie. (Though there have been several Pam 'confirmations' implicating the wrong person.) I did not get any information whatever from the forum archives or from recent posts - except perhaps when I referred in passing to an accepted fact, e.g. that Jagdeo molested children. Everything I said is true. Well, I did get a date wrong. (See a forthcoming post.) And the crucial, all-important arti trays were a bit of poetic license. (In reality I don't know whether there were arti trays at Amaroo in April - but I'm happy to accept that there were not, from those who noticed.) I was an EV organizer for nearly three decades, and, as I said, an occasional PAM. I have worked for some years in Maharaji's residences. I don't know how to prove all this to anyone's satisfaction. Maybe some detail will help - a few reminiscences from my decades of premiedom: - Marolyn was M's special guest in a private room at the Astrodome (before anyone knew they were an item). - The English and American security teams were brawling - especially over the walkie-talkie allocation - at Millennium. - Bal Bhagwan Ji (Vishnu and Jesus in one) said 'Isn't it?' after every second sentence. - Raja Ji (once Brahma, and also King of the World) gives vent to a maniacal, feminine, shrieking cackle when M tells him jokes. - Bhole Ji (Shiva - destroyer of the universe, or at least of an awful lot of good music) was rather mentally slow, and was (last I heard) on Bal Bhagwan Ji's team. - Mata Ji (Holy Mother of the Universe - or was it God? Or all the gods? I forget.) had a bad flatulence problem. (This, BTW, seemed to bother just about everyone except Mata Ji. Mata Ji's problem is possibly the reason M is so uninhibited in talking about flatulence today.) These days, Mata Ji is believed to be hosting banquets for departed Third World dictators, and has her eye on the Virgin Mary's job as Queen of Heaven. Sorry - I'm off the track... I could add that M loves his stereo more than most pieces of technology he owns; that he did private showings of a video of his former Malibu residence being demolished, for PAMs and residence staff in various cities he visited; that he eats large amounts of red meat, and particularly enjoys it barbequed; that he sometimes takes two years to finish a painting; that he used to tell his minders filthy jokes between techniques during Knowledge sessions; that he 'gave darshan' to a number of women I know, one-to-one, at his residences over the years (which now makes me wonder if he was checking them out - though the ones I know are brunettes); that residence staff labor to place cups, plates, ashtrays, etc as close as possible to where he will be sitting/standing/passing, to save him the slightest physical effort, as we believed he was permanently exhausted from his massive task of bringing peace to the world; that the 1997 Aussie newspaper article which someone recently posted here caused M's non-premie co-pilot to learn who his boss 'Prem' was for the first time - which angered 'Prem' vastly (co-pilots have flown with M for long periods of time without knowing who he is); that he got premies onto a cherrypicker to spraypaint blackened trees green after the LA fires in 1977; that massive care is taken to screen out insects from his residences as he doesn't like insects, and is particularly scared of spiders, all of which must be killed before he shows up somewhere; that after a Delhi Holi in the early 1980s (80? 81? 82?), hashish prasad was handed out to all and sundry, with the result that the whole ashram, including mahatmas, slept or wandered around like zombies for 3 days, and one particularly 'religious' westerner freaked out and left Knowledge; that M eats chillis raw 4 at a time, and believes they have euphoric qualities; that at least one recent member of M's personal staff, who has seen some appalling behavior by M, has in her head 'another Maharaji, whom I don't want to know about', whom she separates mentally and emotionally from the 'real Maharaji' - which is about as good as dissociative thinking gets, I guess; and that many PAMs work this same dynamic by saying, 'I love Maharaji, but I don't like Prem Pal Singh Rawat at all'; that there are regular stresses, feuds and fallings-out between various members of M's over-worked, under-rested and under-rewarded residence/executive/traveling staff; that M sometimes lets off steam by blasting away at rabbits with his rifle; that M's residences and stopovers are always stocked with serious alcohol in advance of his arrival; that EV's latest corporate mantra is 'targeted outcomes'; that, despite his temper tantrums on the ground, M is actually very calm and unflustered when traveling (basically he loves flying and has excellent crew); that plane staff are sworn to secrecy about goings-on on the plane by M personally; and that M's relationship with Monica has for many years been a source of considerable tension between Wadi and her father. What else? The versatile Bobby Hendry sometimes has organized the dining for an entire program (several thousand people) as well as chopping up and cooking M's dinner - and is also the source of M's tractor joke; when leaving foreign ports, M's plane staff tend to stay in separate hotels from him, and to get up as early as 4 in the morning to buy his food for the next leg; the premie lawyer, Virgil, spent several years in India sorting out the post-Holy Family legal fallout; Reggie Brown (M's security chief) has returned to the army - indeed he's a three-star general - and left his office in the Pentagon on Sept 11 five minutes before the terrorist plane went through it; and - my shocking piece de resistance - Sampuranand, on whose back M used to ride as a kid, has a soft spot for the cognac. The situation with M's 'premie-mail' is also worth a mention. As you'd know, thousands of premies worldwide write to M each year. (You were probably one of them.) Mostly this mail does not reach Maharaji - nor has it for many years. Generally it is destroyed unread. The mechanics are simple: at an event, a premie known to have access to PAMs will be given a bundle of mail to be forwarded to M. The PAM on the spot (e.g. Craig Weeding), knowing the routine, and after verifying that the bundle does not contain a letter from someone important, will say, 'Throw it in the trash.' It will all then be thrown in the trash. Occasionally some letters will be salvaged so M can quote from them at an event - but these are the exceptions. When M leaves a city where he has a Residence, his mail is left, unopened, in the Residence. It, too, is thrown in the trash. It might be worth mentioning this one to your premie friends when the next divine visit is imminent. It could save them shopping a whole afternoon for the perfect card for the perfect master, and an evening's work distilling their deepest feelings onto paper. (It still happens, believe me: I've delivered M's mail myself.) Would any of the objectors to my last post care to check this out with their PAM friends and report back to the forum? On the subject of my last post, I haven't seen any substantial factual criticism to date. (I don't count 'She made it all up.') If premies - or for that matter exes or fence-sitters - would care to present concrete evidence counter to things I have claimed to be true, I would be happy to address it. That way, we can get final versions of these posts onto EPO (minus the Goebbels-like lie about the arti trays of course) as a permanent written record - and feel ethical about it. I certainly like the idea of memorializing our experiences and journeys on EPO in this way. And in light of EPO, it's ironic that one of the long-standing mottos of Elan Vital's ultra-cautious global PR team is: 'Anything in print is permanent.' Now that will be too. I know some of my premie friends will be hurt by this post. Criticising the Master is the final no-go area. This was a bit of programming installed in our Knowledge sessions, and it's been well-reinforced ever since. All premies have it - and in my opinion it goes deeper than anything else. I've seen whole rooms fall silent when someone even hinted that M had made an error: there was literally nowhere to go with such a topic. Yet, in assessing my posts, I would simply ask premie readers to use truth as the criterion - as they would have before Knowledge, and as they still do when evaluating non-Maharaji aspects of their lives. In other words, to judge what I have written simply on the grounds of whether it is factual or not. If I have lied, or manufactured information, I deserve all the censure that will undoubtedly come my way. If I have told the truth, where, then, should the criticism be directed? I have been hanging out with a lot of premies lately. None of them has ever heard of Jagdeo, or the Delhi bicyclist, or the blondes. For me, this has been a real insight into the information restrictions within Maharaji's world. These things are all landmarks in Maharaji's career. Imagine how well-known they would be if Maharaji were a politician or church leader. This wall of silence is more often than not a result of self-censorship. It's true that M and EV aren't exactly free with information, or particularly truthful. But the information is out there, and the real problem is that most premies don't want it. In my opinion, the assumption of Maharaji's divinity and infallibility lies behind this. Anyone who has done Maharaji's trainings will affirm that no criticism of the Master is possible. No argument with him is countenanced. No correction or amendment of his point of view is allowed. These things are not allowed by him; they're not allowed by the trainers and PAMs; and - most significantly - premies do not allow themselves to go down these roads either. (To underline all the above: in 28 years I only once saw a premie object to something Maharaji said. This was at the Sept '99 training, when M told 80 of us that there 'is a sickness in this room, and we have to cut it out'. A very brave premie respectfully replied that if there was a sickness in the room, then Maharaji must be a part of it too. That premie was verbally cut to ribbons by Maharaji who, after a protracted screaming fit, stormed out of the room. The premie was taken on a long walk by a PAM, and set straight.) Surely the premise behind this extraordinary behavior can only be that Maharaji is infallible. Otherwise, premies would insist on the right to dialog with Maharaji meaningfully (as we do with our political leaders, or even leaders within EV at times), and to criticise him and amend his edicts, where appropriate. There has never been any such right in Maharaji's world. This is a very interesting revelation, isn't it? It's a secular, democratic age, where free speech is enshrined in our national constitutions. We're adults with free will - who may exercise excellent, objective judgment in all other fields. Yet we believed that the man we allowed to be our Master could never be criticised - presumably because he could never be mistaken. The recognition of the fundamental wrongness of this idea - logical wrongness, psychological wrongness, organisational wrongness, ethical wrongness - is the deepest of rivers for a premie to cross. It's doubly hard because to do so would mean acknowledging that what binds one to Maharaji much of the time is not love but fear. I saw this fear close-up - sweating, apprehensive faces, shaking bodies, trembling voices, cringing body language - at the training I attended. It's very real. It's also almost impossible to acknowledge - because we have, for decades, been the first victims of our own propaganda: Knowledge is freedom, the Master is compassion (.....and I am Marie of Romania). Discovering Maharaji's real nature is definitely a tricky business. Of course, given the basic facts, it would take a fair-minded outsider about thirty seconds. But we are not outsiders: we have been extensively re-wired at the pre-logical level of our psyches. Thus: are Maharaji's personal excesses a reflection of his corruption - or a game by which premies must on no account be distracted? Is his utter certainty about his mission the result of being raised since infancy to fulfill the role of God incarnate - or of a genuinely special role in the world? Is his recurrent anger the result of poorly reconciled internal energies, or even excessive drinking - or of his compassionate desire to drive home to us important lessons as fast and as well as he can? Is his lying about (for example) his role in promulgating the 1970s 'Indian concepts' the result of pride, unscrupulousness and self-deception - or of being beyond normal human morality by virtue of his special role? Is his sexual use of female devotees an abuse of his extraordinary psychological power over them - or does it derive from an overarching understanding of their psyches, and concern for their well-being, which others like ourselves simply can't grasp? Unbelievably for those of us who have come back through the looking glass, these are questions which all premies have great difficulty in answering. Some of these people have astronomical IQs. For some time I had difficulty answering them myself: paradigms as vast as M and K are not overthrown overnight, especially when they have been implanted in one's formative years. So I put them in the too-hard basket until I could gain some perspective. In the interim, I examined the circumstantial evidence, which is less ambiguous. I looked long and hard at the chronic dysfunction of EV - which goes back three decades. I looked at the lack of progress - internal and external - in the lives of most premies. I looked at the 99% of premie marriages which had failed. I looked at the absence of spontaneity at large events. I looked at the caliber of the people Maharaji has chosen to surround himself with. Finally I asked myself: Can a good tree bear rotten fruit? Having neared the end of this 'anonymous' post, and the long inner process of writing it (it's taken weeks, on and off), I've just been made aware that the CAC websites are back with us. The timing is fortuitous. Throughout this year, I'd always determined that I would not post here. But when I heard about the first CAC website (after returning from a ten-week working trip to the US in August) I decided immediately that it was time to nail my colours to the mast, and posted here under my own name. (This was a brief, conciliatory post a few weeks ago.) I don't believe one should ever cave in to CAC tactics: bullying and misinformation have been rewarded for too long in M's organisation. Similarly, I was intending to call it a day with this post. But so far as I'm concerned, the rebirth of the CAC sites are a reason to stand up and be counted. I'm now planning four further posts: Maharaji's trainings - which are pivotal to an understanding of his modern approach - are in need of examination. I also have a little further info on Jagdeo, and other (unnamed) sexual pests. Thirdly, I'll provide some further elucidation of how money has been raised and processed within EV. And finally, very few people realise how serious is EV's present decline. In the next year, the organisation is to be wound back throughout the West. Indeed it will disappear organisationally (and probably even legally) in many countries over the next 12 months. Maharaji is currently scratching his head over what might fill the void. No ideas have been forthcoming. Propagation has halted. September 11, furthermore, has caused massive financial problems, as major donors jump ship and pull out loans. In my opinion, the writing is on the wall for the decline and fall of Maharaji's mission in the West, and the time-frame may be quite a bit shorter than we had expected. So I'll pen a fourth post on that. (continued in next post)

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 09:01:55 (EST) From: Repost of John MacGregor Email: None To: Repost of John MacGregor Subject: The Second Coming (part 2) Message:

It now seems like a good idea to reveal my identity as well. I'm a little too lazy to go back and re-write the entire post, so I'll just tack it on here. Doing this should put to bed doubts about 'Pam's' authenticity, and will moreover allow me to interact with my premie friends more honestly. Several premies and others have asked me if I'm Pam. I apologise for lying - and in some cases for spinning a bit of disinformation. On the other hand, you did insist on putting me on the spot before I was ready to come out. I should add that there were small bits of disinformation in my first post - for example US spelling, the odd spelling mistake, and my claim to use a PC, when in fact I use Macs. This was to protect my identity in the course of the inevitable Pam-hunt. None of these bits of disinformation affect the truth of what I said about M, K and EV. The only one that was a bit borderline was my claim to have been to several trainings. In fact I have been to one (Sept 99) - however making this clear would have all but given away my identity, as only two people from that training have so far left Knowledge. In addition to that training, I worked at several others as a staff member, and have interviewed numerous premies and exes who have been to others still. I will use all this information to write my next post, on the trainings. On other occasions, I actually downplayed my information to protect my identity. For example Scott Ritter himself, and not an intermediary, approached me, early this year, about his brief to employ 'radical new approaches' to countering EPO. My name is John Macgregor. My DOB is 11/11/51. My home address, for writs and cyberstalking purposes, is 36 Peter Street, South Golden Beach, NSW 2483 Australia. (Please be careful with explosives, anthrax, etc, as I often have premies down from Amaroo as my houseguests.) My vocation is journalist: I write for newspapers in Australia and the US. My phone and fax number is 61 26680 5509. My email address is johnmac@turboweb.net.au. I'm not sure if anyone wants my hat size or inside leg measurement, but these can be obtained on application. I am already well-known to the FBI, as I interview them on a regular basis in the course of my work in US politics - so I would request that cyberstalkers cite them the above details carefully, for identification purposes. The Miami Field Office knows me best, however Special Agent Steve Berry and SA Michael Bonner (among many others) in the Hoover Building will also be able to assist. Additionally, Attorney General Ashcroft (ultimate boss of the FBI) is familiar with my work on FBI matters, as is Rep. Dan Burton - Chairman of the US House of Representatives Committee on Government Reform, which has ultimate law enforcement oversight responsibility. My friend James C Wilson, the House Committee's Chief Counsel, may also be a good person for cyberstalkers to approach, as he and I have co-operated extensively on matters relating to the Bureau, and he knows my background pretty well already. (Indeed the House Committee's most recent hearings on FBI-related matters - which I recently attended in Washington - employed extensive evidence that had been obtained by yours truly.) Cyberstalkers could send information on me to any one of the above - or, of course, to a person of your own choosing. If it is desired to contact the Australian authorities as well, can I suggest the Australian Federal Police as the first stop? (Maybe Beryl Janz, National Media Office, could point you in the right direction.) Or, to cover all federal law enforcement avenues, you could just go straight to the office of the Prime Minister, John Howard, who has final responsibilty for Australian law enforcement matters, and whom I interviewed for four of Australia's major daily papers, late last year, on the subject - happily enough - of law enforcement. Finally, if the sponsors of CAC and its sister sites care to contact me directly, I can also help you out with your spelling. Here's a little of my premie background: I received knowledge at the age of 20, and practised it till just short of my 49th birthday. I first spent time with Maharaji when he was 14: in Sydney on October 6, 1972, I sat in his bedroom and watched him sit on his single bed and repair a reel-to-reel tape recorder, for about an hour. Over his door was a large sign saying 'The Lord of the Universe'. I don't recall him asking anyone to take it down - but no doubt I missed this, as the EV website has made it very clear that he never claimed to be God. In years subsequent to that I helped organise Australian tours, including the 'Second Coming' tour of the mid-1970s, whose dates changed continually, and for which Maharaji eventually didn't show up. (When Christians asked why all the dates on our placards were different, I quoted them the Gospel of Matthew: 'Thou shalt not say what hour thy Lord doth come.') I have opened doors for him, rolled out carpets, and set up backstage areas. I spent a week with him in a training in September 1999. I worked at his Residence in Brisbane through most of the 1990s - sometimes living there for weeks at a time, both when he was there and when he wasn't. In a spectacular lapse of judgement, I even tried to crack onto Monica Lewis at the gate one day - possibly my most embarrassing moment since pranaming to Bhole Ji. I also (less often) worked around the original Amaroo residence, or 'Lodge', and his new one at the 'Windmill'. As for other service: I established DLM in South Australia in January 1973, and was community co-ordinator there for three years; established DLM/EV's national legal structure in 1974 (still in place); worked with Bestway in the early 1990s, getting people to and from the large Amaroo events; at Amaroo '97 I oversaw the five sales shops, and the purchasing warehouse, helped with the registration package, arranged the site-wide electronic purchase system, helped get a recycling system up, and supervised the post-event de-briefing process. Thereafter, I precipitated the Amaroo Mutiny of 1997-98. Having spent most of the proceeds of the sale of my house ($A50,000+ ) working at Amaroo self-supported, I withdrew from full-time service after the Mutiny - tho more from poverty than disillusionment. The last service I did was to co-manage the travel for the Amaroo 'fundraisers' conference a year ago - tho my heart had gone out of service to Maharaji by then, and I didn't do much of a job. 'Pam' has sometimes adopted a flippant tone. But underneath this there is a heart cloaked in sadness that all my hopes and dreams in regard to Maharaji and Knowledge - which have been the focus of my adult life - have been broken. The destruction of one's idol is not a pleasant thing. The sadness is very real, and you just have to accept that it will permeate your life for a while. I don't particularly want be going through this transition. But after the revelations of M's covering up Jagdeo's crimes against children - indeed his continuing to reward Jagdeo with high office - I didn't really have a choice. How could anyone remain in an organisation that sanctifies the rape of children? The bicyclist and the blondes were the icing on the cake. The candles which illuminated the cake were my growing understandings about cult psychodynamics, and my growing grasp of projection: how easily we can confer divinity and compassion (to say nothing authority) on another human being. With all this unravelling at once, the game, quite literally, was up. I'll write more about all this in the coming posts. These posts sometimes get emailed to and among premies, so I'll include the URL of the Ex-Premie Organisation - www.ex-premie.org - so those premies who wish to can safely explore the facts about Maharaji's real life and work, in EPO's excellent archives. And I'll bury Pam now, and post hereafter in my own name. As I said, I'll now write four more posts, each on an aspect of Maharaji's work and mission: 1. Mindfuck (Maharaji's trainings) 2. Rape (A little more on Jagdeo) 3. Plunder (Divine finances) 4. Annihilation (Maharaji's fast-declining Western empire) Best Wishes to all, John the artist formerly known as Pam

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 09:28:29 (EST) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Repost of John MacGregor Subject: It's all here to stay on EPO ! Message:

[ http://www.ex-premie.org/pages/macgregor.htm ]

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 09:29:31 (EST) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Sorry for the bad link Message:

[ John Macgregor's pages on EPO ]

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 10:13:52 (EST) From: Katie Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Yeah, but J-M... Message:

Nobody ever looks on EPO - you know that! :) :( :) Love to you, Katie

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 10:49:24 (EST) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Katie Subject: Do you mean I'm useless???? Message:

Maybe it's time for me to retire .....

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 15:58:44 (EST) From: JHB Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: You and me both... Message:

...but I guess we'll keep plugging on. One day, someone will post on the forum that they've found this amazing site called www.ex-premie.org with all this information about Maharaji and his history. And someone else will thank them for discovering it.:-) John.

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 11:42:40 (EST) From: RichMandrake Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Dont You Dare!! Message:

EPO is a GREAT Reference for those looking for Answers. Once you have found them and ReRead the Stuff on EPO a hundred times...You tend to go there a lot less...Keep up the GREAT Work...You have the Fatuous Fat Man..Shitting Gold Bullion...and watching... as its flushed down the Toilet of Dispelled Divine Delusion..Your Brother in Sedition......Rich..

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 12:53:18 (EST) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: RichMandrake Subject: OK OK !!!! don't worry Message:

I'll keep dedicating my life to this service ..... I've just received some old stuff EV didn't get to erase ! Will be soon online.

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 03:11:26 (EST) From: Searcher Email: None To: All Subject: FBI investiigating EV Message:

From Rueters News Group FBI investigates cult The security operation that followed the September 11 New York terrorist attack has taken an unexpected turn. FBI agents stationed in Florida have begun an investigation into a mysterious cult called Elan Vital. Based in the US but with branches all around the world, the cult connection was discovered by accident whilst doing routine trawling of phone conversations. Miami based Special Agent Steve Berry says the FBI keeps an eye on millions of groups and thousands of cults around the world, a cult being characterised as 'a group of people who may think in a way that might be detrimental to US interests'. Every day millions of such conversations are monitored by computers based in North Dakota and the alarm raised if 'trigger' words such as 'bomb', 'drugs' and 'murder' appear in conversations. According to Berry the 'trigger' word 'hijack' appeared in a conversation between cult members living in Byron Bay and automatically 'triggered' a recording of the conversation as well as tracing the caller and receiver. According to Agent Berry the call in question took lasted barely a minute and most of the call was unintelligible owing to loud music being played in the background. An FBI cult expert, known only as JMcG, explains that short calls often mean that the people concerned do not want to risk lengthy calls and that playing loud music is a common method used by criminals and terrorists to disguise voices. The 53-second conversation apparently starts with what sounds like a cough followed by the word ''hijack'. Although the remaining fragments appear innocuous enough, cult expert JMcG was able to piece together a surprising scenario from the few facts available. The leader of the cult is none other than the boy guru known as Guru Maharaj Ji, who despite coming to the US at aged 13 has managed to obtain a pilot’s licence and is qualified to fly multi-engined jets. Further more the Guru has been seen in New York several times and is known to have made a disparaging remark about New York in 1984. A cult spokesperson maintains that the call between the friends, only identified as 'Jack' and 'Philip', was in no way associated with the September 11 attacks and claimed that many people other than the Guru had pilot’s licences. Special Agent Berry says that whilst the constitution protects free speech and the presumption of innocence, it is clear that the cult leader is responsible for the World Trade Center attack.

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 14:06:45 (EST) From: Deborah Email: None To: Searcher Subject: Is this suppose Message:

to pass for humour. ~)

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 04:45:52 (EST) From: Peg Email: None To: Searcher Subject: Who put this up? Message:

Is it a joke or what?

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 12:57:24 (EST) From: Pat:C) Email: None To: Peg Subject: SC/David Roupell posted it Message:

It's meant to be a joke but the only people laughing at it are his other personas, Cerise and Marolyn et al.

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 09:04:00 (EST) From: Katie Email: None To: Peg Subject: Yes, a joke (Hi Peg!) [nt] Message:

[nt]

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 05:52:44 (EST) From: AJW Email: None To: Peg Subject: Not a joke Peg. Message:

The cult and the Captain are shitting their pants at the haemoraging of devotees and honchos- not to mention the drop in income this causes. They are trying increasingly desperate tactics to discredit their critics, and stem the flow of information about the Captain and his shady lifestyle. Unfortunately, they're a roomful of officers with no troops. Their only weapons are spite, personal attack, denial, and downright intimidation, and these are dolled out from anonymity. They tried it on Michael Dettmers after he left, and they're trying it on John McGregor because he's left. They are trying to close the stable door after the horse has bolted. Like vampires, they wither as soon as the light hits them. And we thought it was all about love and peace. Anth the scrambled egg.

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 09:21:34 (EST) From: RichMandrake Email: None To: AJW Subject: Does Anyone have any Evidence.. Message:

Or Information on the Drop in Money Coming to MahaRawat??..or the Drop in People Receiving Knowledge?..or any concrete Info on the General Declining State Of Affairs on the Not-So Good Ship MahaRawat??? Im finding More and More as I begin To Realize how the Captain has used me as Grist for his own Divine Narcissism...I Really Want to 'Bring Him Down'. This Is/Was Not the Benign Religion that It is being Portrayed as. (yes EV Monitors..it IS Your Religion...based on your Belief that MahaRawat has Some Divine Authority to Own the Techniques of Knowledge..and Guide others into merging into the State of Grace that He Pretends to be in) Anyway, I GREATLY Enjoying hearing of the Unraveling .He has Hurt and Used Us...So Anyone Caring to Share About How Badly Things are Going for The Captain....Im ALL Ears..;-)))...Thanx...RichMandrake

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 09:32:36 (EST) From: Jim Email: None To: RichMandrake Subject: Rich ..... just how old are you anyway? Message:

I've always thought that the english speaking world stopped capitalizing nearly every word sometime before the turn of the century -- the last one, before the WWI. Why do you do it? It's a bit funny to read as it makes the reader emphasize just about everything in his head. Is that your intention?

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 09:50:06 (EST) From: RichMandrake Email: None To: Jim Subject: Im Glad you put so Much EMPHASIS ON MY WORDS... Message:

but I type ...stream of Conciousness...and it just feels better to do it this way....Im sorry if its Distracting to you Jim...when I read It..it looks about the way I want it normally....just my style I guess...Your Brother In Ex-premiedom....richmandrake..

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 14:20:43 (EST) From: Jim Email: None To: RichMandrake Subject: Your call, of course Message:

If That's what you Want -- that your Reader Necessarily Navigate the Peaks and Valleys of your Posts, what Can I Say? Funny, I Lent a Book to my Neighbour, this Week. 'Mason & Dixon' by Pynchon. (I Got it Myself for Christmas Last Year but Haven't Got into it Yet). The only Thing A.K. Complained about was the 19th Century Device of Capitalizing Everything. Have you Read it? You might Want To. Pynchon's Incredible. A Little Hard to Read at Times, but Incredible Nonetheless.

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 09:57:25 (EST) From: Rm Email: None To: RichMandrake Subject: I do know how to write as taught.. Message:

in public school in America. I just dont like to do it. While at work, I am an impeccable capitalist. Here Im a CAPITAL Insurgent. It must be the rebel in me. You probably would not understand that, Jim. ;-)

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 11:47:14 (EST) From: Sir Dave Email: None To: Rm Subject: You should do a trade with Donner [nt] Message:

[nt]

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 14:27:09 (EST) From: Pat:C) Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: or janet the other e e cummings of F7 [nt] Message:

[nt]

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 14:38:47 (EST) From: Pat:C) Email: None To: Pat:C) Subject: But seriously, Rich Message:

Cute devices can detract from the seriousness of your communication and can cheapen it or make it seem trivial. Over-emphasis sometimes has the opposite effect in that people compensate for it by down-playing it. The capitals make it seem so unrelentingly breathless like a little kid jumping up and down with excitement. (Moms learn to tune out the hype.) It doesn't really bother me because the rest of your writing is always worth reading but I'm just letting you know that I edit out the capitals in my mind and therefore lose whatever effect you were aiming at.

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 14:50:01 (EST) From: Barbara Email: None To: Pat:C) Subject: I make believe it's a Bodice Ripper Message:

I don't mean any offense by that. I do what Pat does.

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 16:31:34 (EST) From: Pat:C) Email: None To: Barbara Subject: and Bodice Rippers still sell more than.... Message:

...any other books except cook books. I think I'll stop working on my cook book and write about heaving bosoms instead.

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 14:09:29 (EST) From: Jim Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: nOW THAT'S FUNNY! [nt] Message:

---

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 14:09:10 (EST) From: Deborah Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: That's funny }) [nt] Message:

[nt]

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 10:28:53 (EST) From: Katie Email: None To: Rm Subject: I Like the Capital Letters, Rich [nt] Message:

[nt]

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 14:10:29 (EST) From: Jim Email: None To: Katie Subject: WHY? bECAUSE IT'S HARDER TO READ? [nt] Message:

[nt]

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 06:05:30 (EST) From: SC Email: None To: AJW Subject: Their only weapons are spite, personal attack Message:

Oh you mean like this you wrote to catweasel Anth? 'Who are you? You have no credibility whatsoever here. Fuck off. Go stick your thumbs in your ears and listen to god within or something. I bet you're a real hoot at parties. Can you think of a single thing you wouldn't do, if asked personally by Captain Rawat Cat? Ugh. My spine shivers to think how low you would go. Tell me something you'd refuse to do Cat. Something would make even a toe kissing, long-time, career premie fanatic like yourself say, 'Enough is enough Captain. I won't eat that...Etc' Come on Cat, try and think of something you wouldn't do, if it was 'personal agya'. Anth, openuppayourheart to the Universe of Love and heeeeee will empty your baaaaank accoooount.' SC - who sees the big picture

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 06:12:54 (EST) From: AJW Email: None To: SC Subject: I stand by every word. Message:

Catweazle, like yourself SC, is mindless cult drone, who lines up to kiss the feet of a fucked-up, sham, guru. And, for the record, Catweazle hasn't yet been able to tell me a single thing he wouldn't do if asked by the Captain. What about you SC? Is there anything you wouldn't do if asked by the Captain personally? Would you lie to his wife? Would you steal? Would you let him screw you? Well, he is the Lord right? You are his creation. He owns you right? Anth, looking forward to your replies SC. (Surely you're not here to intimidate me are you. Okay, I admit it. I've lost my sense of humour. I'm a bitter and twisted old man, a bit like Judas Iscariot. Oh that I was a chosen one, like St Paul, Arjuna, Kabir, SC, Nanak and Catweazle. Forgive me Lord.)

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 05:58:57 (EST) From: Zelda Email: None To: Peg Subject: stupid post [nt] Message:

[nt]

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 15:28:18 (EST) From: Cult Spotter Email: None To: Zelda Subject: SC = Stupid CACweasel (nt) Message:

[nt]

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 14:12:59 (EST) From: Deborah Email: None To: Zelda Subject: Zelda, were you expecting more? [nt] Message:

[nt]

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 15:39:09 (EST) From: ZZelda Email: None To: Deborah Subject: Im insulted Message:

that any premie would think EXES are so stupid , plumb and desparate that we would possible buy the post as serious. I guess it only reflects the fact that they only work with eclipsed.brain hemispheres. what did he/they think - that we would get all excited and spend days analysing it? pitiful

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Date: Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 18:16:13 (EST) From: G Email: None To: All Subject: The Master Blaster Message:

Click below to see The Master Blaster, who said to be related to a Mr. Elmer Fudd, and thought to be his brother and/or cousin. The Master Blaster

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Date: Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 18:37:06 (EST) From: Joe Email: None To: G Subject: LOL -- well done, perfect in fact. (nt Message:

nt

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Date: Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 18:44:13 (EST) From: G Email: None To: Joe Subject: thanks, it was difficult ... Message:

fitting his big head in there. I wouldn't say it's perfect though, just did what I could.

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Date: Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 19:14:18 (EST) From: G Email: None To: G Subject: Here's an update, his brother and/or cousin, Message:

that is, Mr. Elmer Fudd, is now included, and he doesn't feel too good about where The Master Blaster has his gun pointed. The Master Blaster, version 2

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Date: Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 19:31:48 (EST) From: Joe Email: None To: G Subject: Great, but where are the wabbits?? Message:

In the BEGining there was the WABBIT and the WABBIT was with God and the WABBIT was God. Quick blast the WABBIT to bits!

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Date: Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 19:55:45 (EST) From: Disculta Email: None To: Joe Subject: Remember this line? Message:

'Worst case of rabbititis I ever saw.' It's from one of MJ's satsangs, and somehow has stuck in my mind for decades, along with some absurd arti lines. Since I wasn't American at the time, a lot of MJ's references made no sense to me, like this one.

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 13:42:13 (EST) From: Joe Email: None To: Disculta Subject: My Favorite Line.... Message:

Is when Bugs Bunny, who is dressed up as a ballarina trying to hide from Elmer, kisses Elmer on the lips and says: 'Is you IS, or is you AIN'T, MY BABY?!!' My favorite line from Maharaji is when he said a number of times in the late 70s, during the oil crisis: 'No oil, what's gonna happen, the price of gasoline is too high!' 'Is it because there weren't enough Dinah Shores?' I remember at the time thinking that surely Maharaji wasn't so stupid that he didn't know how to pronounce 'dinosaurs,' and also that he wasn't so stupid that he thought oil came form dead dinosaurs. On second thought, maybe he really did think oil came from Dinah Shore. Joe, who admits to sometimes watching Warner Brothers cartoons on Saturday mornings, and perhaps isn't the only one upset because they moved 'Theodore Tugboat' to 6 AM on Saturdays, and that's just too early for one of my favorite shows.

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Date: Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 21:13:02 (EST) From: G Email: None To: Disculta Subject: Does Prempal identify with Elmer? Message:

'Worst case of rabbititis I ever saw.' It's from one of MJ's satsangs, and somehow has stuck in my mind for decades, along with some absurd arti lines. Since I wasn't American at the time, a lot of MJ's references made no sense to me, like this one. --- Does Prempal identify himself with Elmer Fudd? Is there some strange goings-on inside his head about this? Maybe he has watched too many cartoons. See Elmer PAST AND PRESENT It talks about a 'terrible outbreak of 'rabbititus''

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Date: Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 21:54:32 (EST) From: Stonor Email: None To: G Subject: That's 'W'abbititus you wascally G! Message:

Hi G! Hope you are well! Techie question ... why could I see your first pic of The Master Blaster but not the second? And that part about 'and/or cousin' ... are you suggesting inbreeding in the 'Royal' family a la '... so I am my own Grandpa!' He seem to suit the Master Blaster outfit much better than his Mafia-boy/sleazy-banker look or the Krishna one, (ie. looks less ridiculous in it). Maybe you should send it to his tailor? Anna

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Date: Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 22:11:43 (EST) From: G Email: None To: Stonor Subject: Oh weally? Message:

Hi G! Hope you are well! Techie question ... why could I see your first pic of The Master Blaster but not the second? And that part about 'and/or cousin' ... are you suggesting inbreeding in the 'Royal' family a la '... so I am my own Grandpa!' He seem to suit the Master Blaster outfit much better than his Mafia-boy/sleazy-banker look or the Krishna one, (ie. looks less ridiculous in it). Maybe you should send it to his tailor? Anna --- Hi Anna! Maybe you need to scroll? I don't know. Oh no, I wouldn't be suggesting inbreeding, not at all, wouldn't dream of it, no siree. Yes, the hunter outfit does seem to fit him to a tee, maybe his tailor could make it for him.

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Date: Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 22:35:48 (EST) From: Stonor Email: None To: G Subject: May be something wrong with the server ... Message:

If that's the correct term - joinme.com seems to be not working at the moment. I can't get the first version you posted now either. Oh well, I'll try again tomorrow - I weally wanna see them wascally wabbits! :) Anna PS ... shouldn't that weally be Wabbititis? Maybe you should check a dictionary? ;)

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 10:30:15 (EST) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Stonor Subject: I just saw it Stonor Message:

But I had to switch to IE. I can't see any pix using netscape... See my note below... Cyn

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 14:52:06 (EST) From: Stonor Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: You're right, Cynthia (and G ...) Message:

I can see it fine with IE, but I COULD see it last night with Netscape the first time, and then nothing! Very strange. Thanks for the scoop Cynthia, but I still couldn't see Barry's pics with IE! :(

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Date: Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 22:53:53 (EST) From: G Email: None To: Stonor Subject: -itis Message:

That's funny, I looked about wabbititis, wabbititus, rabbititis, and rabbititus, and found nothing! I don't understand. But wabbititis would be the correct spelling, since the suffix is -itis. I was just quoting the web page. Hate to disappoint you, but there are no wabbits on the web page. -itis suff. Inflammation or disease of: laryngitis. Excessive preoccupation with, indulgence in, reliance on, or possession of the qualities of: televisionitis. --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- -- [Greek -itis, from feminine of -ites, adj. suff. (originally modifying feminine noun nostos, disease).]

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Date: Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 22:59:32 (EST) From: Stonor Email: None To: G Subject: You mean he's shot them ALL?!!! Message:

Impossible ... there must still be some in a zoo somewhere ... or was someone seeing things? I tawt I taw a gooroofud ... I did, I did!!! Now ... nothing but a blank page. Maybe he shot himself in something more than his own foot this time! ;) Televisionitis ... now there's an epidemic! Fortunately bullyitis seems to be in remission around here! :)

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Date: Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 23:05:43 (EST) From: G Email: None To: Stonor Subject: Couldn't have Message:

There are too many of them in Australia, as someone said, they are pests there, so Guru Fudd can kill to his heart's content, and say it's a good thing! I don't know why you're seeing a blank page, maybe try pressing the refresh/reload button or the stop button.

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 05:47:17 (EST) From: Disculta Email: None To: G Subject: Wait a minute Message:

No! Is this about MJ shooting rabbits? Does he really? Is he liberating them so they can be premies next time? I gues he didn't have much of a model of manhood, growing up, and keeps trying on different alpha-male hats on for size - the biz exec., the pilot, the krishna person, etc. But now, the hunter? NO!

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 10:42:17 (EST) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Disculta Subject: That's Not Hunting... Message:

I did a search about non-indigenous animals in Australia and rabbits are considered pests. BUT, it also stated that shooting rabbits is the least effective way to do it. Mawaji with a gun. Period. Scares me. It was probably like shooting fish in a barrel. And...it's not hunting. I can just hear his sadistic cackle. Sends chills up me spine! Hope you're well, Katie, Love, Cynthia

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 12:37:49 (EST) From: G Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: Re: That's Not Hunting... Message:

In RABBIT CONTROL ... it states that 'Shooting is only recommended as a 'mop-up' technique when rabbit numbers have already been reduced to low levels'. If rabbits are a problem there, why doesn't Rawat delegate the rabbit control to others like he does many other things, doesn't the ex-Lord of the Universe have anything better to do than to shoot rabbits? Why does he want to do this himself? It's suspicious.

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 15:20:24 (EST) From: Cynthia Email: None To: G Subject: Because Maharaji is so Sadistic... Message:

...and he has so few devotees left to perform such services that he has to resort to shooting them himself.... ...my heart is just bleeding for him.....NOT! I wonder what he does to the spiders he so fears! That, I believe, is one service he can find someone to perform for him!!! I love spiders--up to a certain size, that is...and he should come to my home...I could show him the benefits of letting them LIVE! b)

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 09:03:04 (EST) From: Katie Email: None To: Disculta Subject: Dear Disculta Message:

Check the reposts of John MacG's 'Second Coming' posts above. It is true - unfortunately. Lots of love, K

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 06:52:27 (EST) From: Desperate Dan Email: None To: Disculta Subject: He's even got his own forum Message:

if you didn't already know. Maybe someone can post the original post about our Lord's hunting escapades. Also, read the new arti on the hunting forum (linked above). [ The big brave guru-with-a-gun ]

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Date: Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 17:56:13 (EST) From: Elan Vital Email: None To: All Subject: Press Release Message:

Press Release November 12, 2001 Some of the recent discussions about the ashram has come to our attention amid all the unsubstantiated lies hurled against us and Maharaji on the Internet, mostly by anonymous malcontents who have nothing better to do with their lives besides hurting people. We were terribly hurt, until we started feeling grateful again, and then, in no time, we were grateful for having gratitude, and then it's just so beautiful. Plus, we have the gift of participation. Gifts are just all over the place, and that's a gift too. We are just gifted by gifts. Regarding the ashrams, we note that Erika Andersen, who has her own website, completely spontaneously created with no input from Maharaji or us, had a good time living in them, and we think Mitch Ditkoff sort of did too, although that is hard to tell. But as we state clearly on our website, the ashrams were elimintated shortly after Maharaji got out from under the influence of his mother, right away, like within 10 or 15 years. It was just a flash, almost. His mother was an Indian national and who was also a Hindu, and we all know what that is probably like; she was a raving, controlling, bitch with all kinds of Hindu concepts and ideas that just got in the way over here in America, and it was just so courageous for Maharaji, after having sex with Marolyn at age 15, right under his Mother's nose, practically, to stand up to her and tell her to get lost. Plus, Mata Ji had really, really bad gas. It made life very difficult and confusing from the young Prem. Can you imagine having sex with an airline stewardess at the age of fifteen and then having to introduce her to your mother who smelled, like god only knows what? Those Mahatmas, and people like David Lovejoy and Mitch Ditkoff were no picnics either. Man, were they ever spritually immature and full of Hindu concepts. Despite there being zero democracy in Maharaji's world (thank God), they somehow got it together to force those things on Maharaji, probably in alliance with the Mahatmas and Mata Ji. Meanwhile Maharaji was just so focused on the purpose of his life, which which was to get a pilot's license and also write poetry while wearing several collectible watches on both arms and living in an utterly delapidated house up in the poorer section of Malibu. He was so poor he couldn't even afford leaves on his trees and he had them painted. Anyway, as we also say on our website, the purpose of the ashrams was to save many people from DRUG CULTURE. Those ashram residents should be just so grateful they they didn't die of drug overdoses, and every one of them would have, were it not for the supreme caring of Maharaji to provide 'shelter' for them. This is the reason there are not quite as many premies today as there were in 1974. Or they might be in mental institutions Why, Erika Andersen and Mitch Ditkoff would be living in mental institutions right now if it weren't for the ashrams. That's why they thoroughly enjoyed living there and why they are so grateful. Maharaji is an enigma, you know. Enigmas kind of just do whatever they want. Even we at Elan Vital have no idea what exciting and interesting thing he will do next. We wait on pins and needles just to see what it is, and it always surprises and delights us, and it's always a gift for which we are grateful before we even get it. We hope this clarifies things for you. If you would like to reach our PR person, Booth Dyess, or one of his numerous female assitants by whom he has fathered no children we are aware of, please contact contact us at: ElanVital@wearenotacult/wereallyaren't.org. Sincerely, Elan Vital ABSOLUTELY NOT A CULT SINCE 1971

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 17:16:33 (EST) From: Andrea Eriksonn Email: None To: Elan Vital Subject: Thank you, EV, I'm so grateful... Message:

...grateful for your presence here, amongst all these ungrateful people. And thank you so much for reminding them all that they would ALL be DEAD from drug overdoses, if it weren't for the ashrams. But are they grateful? No, of course not. No doubt, this is why The Teacher did nothing about Jadgeo when he heard about it. I suspect he wisely knew that people would be ungrateful if he reported Jagdeo to the police, so he wisely did nothing (except hide it). The resulting scandel would have been so inconvenient to his work and fundraising, so he just denied anything, and since he really is NOT a christian (I'm so grateful Mr. Lovejoy pointed that out) Maharaji doesn't have to be constrained by the silly morals of that belief system, thank goodness. I must say, I've really not been posting here much lately, because I really do HATE it when ex-students of Maharaji try to confuse me with the FACTS. What do the FACTS have to do with That Experience? NOTHING, which is why it's o.k. to ignore them, and why Maharaji warns us so vehemently not to listen to them, lest we doubt that he really is You-Know-Who. So THANK YOU Elan Vital, I'm so grateful, and normal, too! And my check is in the mail. Gratefully Yours, Andrea Eriksonn (Not to be confused with Erika Anderson, who is also very nice just like me, but UNLIKE her, I use haircoloring, just like The Teacher does, why she doen't follow his example, is beyond me, dosen't she want to get invited on the yacht too? Also, her website is a cheap knock-off of my website, ''Please Consider This, not THAT'', but I'll let it slide, because I too am nice, and because we are both serving the same Master, I mean, Teacher. We are all having so much fun not being in a cult and being normal, if you were all sycronized and not entertaining your doubtmakers, you would see that and be grateful, instead of considering... THAT other stuff. I'm off to have my roots done, and I probably won't even mention Maharaji's name at the hair salon, further proof that I am NOT in a CULT. Toodle Loo!)

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Date: Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 17:16:23 (EST) From: Joe Email: None To: All Subject: Pictures of John MacGregor and David Lovejoy Message:

Just so we can see the recent celebrities. David Lovejoy is 'consulting editor' and Michael McDonald is editor of a small, weekly, decidedly left-leaning (yes!) newspaper in Byron Bay, Australia, called the Echo. Byron Bay seems to be sort of like a small version of Santa Cruz/ very environmentally progressive and new-agey. John MacGregor is a freelance journalist in the same area who sometimes writes for the Echo. The paper is really cute. Front page news includes bake sales and singing contests. It also appears to have some good articles on local issues and politics. Not a bad paper. It reminds me of the Pacific Sun in Marin County, CA. Anyhow, apparently John MacGregor recently won a journalists award for a story that took him to the USA to investigate the FBI about an American lawyer seeking asylum in Australia, claiming he was framed for drug charges by the Attorney General of Florida (Janet Reno). You can read the story about John and see his picture at: www.echo.net.au/archives/16_16/pg03.html Congratulations John! If you want to see a picture of David Lovejoy, you can see that too. Actually, Anth, he kind of looks like you, you know, like Ben Franklin. Are they the same person? You be the judge: www.echo.net.au/pg05.html

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Date: Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 23:24:20 (EST) From: Hippocrates Email: None To: Joe Subject: Re: Pictures of John MacGregor and David Lovejoy Message:

Read David Lovejoy's article - interesting that he uses the phrase 'demonization of victims' - when this appears to be the latest strategy from m & ev

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Date: Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 21:44:01 (EST) From: Stonor Email: None To: Joe Subject: MacGregor is an award winning novelist too. Message:

from the above article(www.echo.net.au/archives/16_16/pg03.html): 'Announcing the award, Australian Centre for Independent Journalism director, John Nash, sid the outstanding thing about the pieces was the industry applied to exposing the truth depsite numerous obstacles. Mr. MacGregor even travelled to the U.S. at his own expense to interview sources for the stories. 'The judges were impressed by the scope of the story and how John MacGregor was able to do this from Byron Bay and to be an award winning novelist as well. I guess that's what we would all like to be,' Associate Professor John Nash said.' . I can't think of an apt comment to make wrt Lovejoy's nasty piece of work, but I don't think it's needed. Congratulations for both awards, John MacGregor, you are clearly a man of rare integrity, compassion and talent. Anna

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Date: Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 18:20:38 (EST) From: Abi Email: None To: Joe Subject: Re: Pictures of John MacGregor and David Lovejoy Message:

oh, and I thought Lovejoy was the editor of a serious newspaper. Is it really just a jazzed up community newspaper?

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 00:03:10 (EST) From: Lesley Email: None To: Abi Subject: It's a good high quality local newspaper Message:

It is free, and it is independent, surviving many hardline tactics to stay afloat, mainly because it is such a good paper. How many newspapers are there that regularly run letters and articles on global capitalism? That post from David Lovejoy was so illconsidered and so untypical of him, it makes me think that he wrote it in a vacuum of misinformation. PS, Joe, yes it is mandatory to vote here, but if you don't want to vote it is pretty easy to avoid a fine, and you put yourself on the electoral roll. There is a saying 'don't vote, it only encourages them', but hey, when push comes to shove, it is a buzz to vote, as you enter the hall solemn thoughts pass around about the exercise of the right to have a say in your own government, being acknowledged as an individual, you know it's a bit 'la la' but you can't help it, the place is abuzzzzz!

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 12:39:43 (EST) From: Joe Email: None To: Lesley Subject: Thanks Lesley Message:

I think alternative papers are really important. In San Francisco, we have the Bay Guardian, also a free paper, but it covers tons of political issues, including globalization, and it is extremely influential in San Francisco politics. Their 'endorsements' issue has a distribution of over a million. The Guardian is far to the left of the two daily newspapers, the Chronicle and what's left of the Examiner and of course San Francisco has extremely liberal voters. So, if you don't put yourself on the electoral roll, then you aren't fined if you don't vote? Is that how it works? I think in the states people would never stand for that kind of system. We are just too individualistic, I guess. So, we get fewer and fewer people voting, and they tend to be older, whiter and richer than the country as a whole. And those are the voters that both major parties try to court, pretty much ignoring anybody else. So, the differences between Democrats and Republicans, for example, become less and less. On issues like globalization, they are nonexistent. Both parties court the 'middle' but 'middle' has been moving to the right because of who the 'middle' of voters actually are. And it's kind of a circular thing. As people feel voting has less and less real effects on their lives, and politicians aren't even addressing their issues, they become even less likely to vote. Hence we have a 'voting class' in this country. It really skews things. So, we usually get only about half of registered voters to show up to vote even in a Presidential election. I think the last election had less than 50%. It seems like you live in a beautiful place. Maybe one of these days I'll get to visit there. I'm telling Kevin that the exchange rate is so good right now, that we should take our vacation in Australia this year. I'm working on it.

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 13:54:22 (EST) From: Lesley Email: None To: Joe Subject: No matter who you vote for a politician gets in OT Message:

In our youth, we were non voters, but when we became rate payers we were sent forms to fill in for the electoral roll, and we just accepted that we were sitting ducks now, and started voting, yes if you are not on the electoral roll you can't vote and won't be fined. There is usually a lot more campaigning to get the young people to enrol to vote during a labor government because they figure the youth vote will favour them, we have a preferential voting system, which means that you list the candidates in your order of preference, and as the vote is counted, and your primary choice gets knocked out of the running, his pile of votes gets redistributed to second choices and so on. This means that even if the youth vote chooses the Legalise Hemp Party, followed by the greens, followed by an independant or two, in the end they have voted Labor, because they put that above the Libs and the Nats. In one sense it was a pretty traditional result, Liberals returned to government, Labor not offering anything substantial enough to make them worth changing your vote for. I heard speculation on the radio that if Labor had put up a platform of undertaking to act in a humanitarian way with asylum seekers and to abolish the Goods & Services Tax, instead of offering a few concessions on it, they would have got in, I tend to agree. What was interesting, though, was that the Greens polled very well, doubling their vote from the last election, and independants are starting to do better in country seats. I saw a fair bit of Bob Brown, the leader of the greens, on the media, and he really was impressive; intelligent, articulate and humanist. Our Lib and Labor would be pretty similar to Republican and Democrat, and we do the same thing, get so sick of the Libs after a while that we vote in Labor, and get sick of them and vote the Libs back in, every two or three terms, the leaders get huge kudos if they can swing a third term! And there isn't a whole lot of difference between them, here as well, both have been moving towards the centre, but if you look at the record after a period in office, the rate at which such things as logging of old growth forest goes on is accelerated during the Libs. It is beautiful here, there are places where the forest reaches right down to the sea, absolutely perfect for a primate! If you come to Aust, include a visit here, a cup of tea awaits on the deck beside the creek that runs through a little valley, but don't come in January unless you like hot hot weather.

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 14:37:33 (EST) From: Joe Email: None To: Lesley Subject: I wish we had preferential voting Message:

If that were true, Gore would certainly be President now. Most of te Nader voters would have picked Gore second. Since we have the 'winner take all' kind of system, smaller parties often feel there is no point, bucause they can never win, and the voters often feel that voting for a third party is throwing away your vote. The Greens, however, have made some considerable gains in local elections, nevertheless. I see other similarities. The Democrats are always trying to make it easier to register to vote, and to make it easier to vote, and the Republicans favor the opposite. The Dems always feel that poorer, working class and minority voters will help them, and so would younger voters. But voter registration and voting mechanisms are left up to the states and the last election showed how abysmal those procedures are, not just in Florida. Plus we have a lot of "gerrymandering" in the states, in which the party in power in a given state redraws the districts so that it favor's their party. We do this every 10 years after the national census. Since 70% if the state legislatures are controlled by the Republicans, I think the new districts will make it virtually impossible for the Democrats to take back the House of Representatives, which now narrowly favors the Republicans. Gee, we were actually thinking of January. When is the weather better? How about March? In San Francisco one gets so unused to any kind of hot weather, because it is cool all the time. We rarely get much heat. So, perhaps going to Oz when it's hot isn't such a good idea.

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Date: Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 18:36:20 (EST) From: Joe Email: None To: Abi Subject: Yes, a community paper Message:

Published weekly. I think the circulation is 13,000. I don't know if it's a free paper, which is what community papers in the USA usually are.

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Date: Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 17:37:11 (EST) From: JHB Email: None To: Joe Subject: Anth and Lovejoy Message:

Has anyone ever seen Anth and David Lovejoy together? Apart from the picture of Anth as Lovejoy looking a little thinner, they must be the same person. So Anth, what's your game, eh? John.

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Date: Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 18:37:56 (EST) From: AJW Email: None To: JHB Subject: I am David Lovejoys love child. Message:

It was the result of a triste between him and Irene Hall. Now the truth is out, let me live in peace for god's sake. Anth, all I wanted was to be free.

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Date: Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 17:24:29 (EST) From: Joe Email: None To: Joe Subject: Question re elections (OT) Message:

Reading David's editorial about the Australian elections made me think of something. Is it really true that Australians are required by law to vote and if they don't they are fined? I heard that's the reason Aussie's get 90%+ turnout in their elections. Given the abysmal turnout in US elections, maybe we should give that a try.

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 01:45:01 (EST) From: CW Email: None To: Joe Subject: Re: Question re elections (OT) Message:

It is true.Voting is encouraged through advertising constantly , election or no election.You dont vote(if on the Electoral roll) ,you get fined about $50 pus costs....

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Date: Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 17:06:07 (EST) From: JHB Email: None To: All Subject: White Pages Updates Message:

I've decided to post updates to EPO White Pages entries here, as otherwise people might not notice old friends declaring their ex-ness and their email addresses. So today's updates:- New entries - Fouad Bsat in Lebanon, and Bengt Kanebratt in Gothenborg. New email address - Gail Macdougall in London, Ontario. If you haven't got a White Pages entry, now's the time. It's a lot better than a SmartCard! John.

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Date: Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 14:07:26 (EST) From: Elan Vital Email: None To: All Subject: Do you have a Smart Card yet?? Message:

Right now is a really good time to apply for one. You can download a USA Smart Card application at Cult ID Card While no event has been confirmed, many places have invited Maharaji and there is a chance that an event in North America could be announced at short notice. The Smart Card will be required at such an event to prevent trouble-makers from getting in. It is also likely that the Smart Card may be required for future 'land events' such as Hans Jayanti and the next Amaroo event. So if you haven't applied for a Smart Card, now is a good time to do so! Updating your Smart Card contact information For those of you who have already applied for the Smart Card -- if your name, address or other contact information has changed since you applied, please send your updated information to the International Smart Card Office. This information is often used to facilitate registration for events. Please include your Smart Card number, birth date, and your old contact information for identification purposes. You may send this information via: 1) Email (the preferred method): smartcardoffice@attglobal.net 2) Fax: 1-818-707-6378 3) Mail: Smart Card Office P.O. Box 2278 Agoura Hills, CA 91376 USA BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU!

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Date: Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 15:50:02 (EST) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Elan Vital Subject: It's Called Cult Paranoia Message:

Did you know that Jim Jones's Peoples Temple required ID cards in order to gain entrance to their church? Yes, EV, they did. And there were also X-rated members, but they weren't called X-rated, they were called members of the PC--Planning Commission. They weren't called SmartCards, yet they were cards identifying people who were members, i.e., in the ''know,'' who believed in ''Dad.'' No one else was allowed and if a guest was to be there, the Rev.'s act changed considerably. Sound familiar? Big Brother isn't watching, Maharaji's Rat Squad is. CULT LEADER MAHARAJI AND EV MONITORS--WELL--HI THERE, BEEN BUSY??!! Jones's liked cognac, too. And he was fond of a lot of female followers in the sexual way. Those ''community invitations'' are no more than a whispered desire for M to come visit. Once M gives the high sign, EV operatives come in and manage the show. And they're quite snotty when they do, I must say. Come on EV, give it up! Your Lord's a has-been.

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Date: Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 15:24:58 (EST) From: Richard Email: richard@rogers-graphics.com To: Elan Vital Subject: Yes! Here's mine. Message:

Here's mine. As Mr. Lovejoy said, the organization is always changing. If you had a Get Smart card before and want it posted, just request by email. Richard, who is not part of a hate group as alleged by the zealots at the Halt On-Line Abuse and Hate site [ Get Smart ]

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 15:17:57 (EST) From: Deborah Email: None To: Richard Subject: Yeah!! That's cool, really cool [nt] Message:

[nt]

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Date: Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 20:03:34 (EST) From: Barry Email: None To: Richard Subject: Yes! Nice job Richard!(nt) Message:

gg

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Date: Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 15:45:27 (EST) From: Tim G Email: None To: Richard Subject: LOVE the card. nt Message:

yipee

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 16:41:13 (EST) From: Richard Email: None To: Tim G Subject: Thanks y'all Message:

Glad you like the card. I put Get Smart Cards together awhile back as a humorous way of pointing out we were NOT a secret organization requiring ID's. I still have cards for several of our other non-members and, if they ask, I'll post them. Actually, Jean-Michel started the whole thing by posting his actual EV issued Smart Card. That move, in part, gave me the courage to go ahead and post under my name. Well, that plus Donner's rather pointed question 'what's with the alias thing?' I re-posted the card now, partly for fun and partly because I want to be seen as a human being and not the miscreant portrayed on the Halt On-Line Hate and Abuse website. Richard

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Date: Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 10:47:27 (EST) From: Abi Email: None To: All Subject: Questions for CW Message:

CW you said you knew something about Jagdeo. Can you just tell us for the record again every single thing you know about Jagdeo? Do you admit that Brendon O'Hara was involved in DLM finances? And just for the record, how do you know for sure that all of the 'rumours' about Padarthanand are untrue? Never mind all the rest of the cult insanity, what about these three points.

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Date: Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 18:24:47 (EST) From: CW Email: None To: Abi Subject: Will the accused please answer!!!! Message:

Is this a friendly conversation or a cross examination. I could ring you and discuss the issues.You speak to me like I'm your mortal enemy. I won't discuss anything like that here with you because here you twist things and create your own propaganda.

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 06:20:08 (EST) From: salsa Email: None To: CW Subject: hahhahahahha Message:

Talk boy, talk, quit going around the bush. Hey, how is the meditation going, is it still able to STOP the mind? It seems like it's working well. Miaaaau())

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 14:20:54 (EST) From: Deborah Email: None To: salsa Subject: Re: hahhahahahha Message:

Shit! For a person who uses English as a second language. You are pretty damn funny. It's working well alright. Ahhh

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 01:26:10 (EST) From: Abi Email: None To: CW Subject: Re: Will the accused please answer!!!! Message:

Sure CW, give me a call. But I'm not going to give you my phone number here because strange premies might start calling me. So it would be best to email me so I can give it to you like that. I would very much like to talk. abray@murdoch.edu.au.

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Date: Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 22:13:20 (EST) From: Jim Email: None To: CW Subject: No, Cat, not the accused, the witness Message:

Is this a friendly conversation or a cross examination. I could ring you and discuss the issues.You speak to me like I'm your mortal enemy. I won't discuss anything like that here with you because here you twist things and create your own propaganda. --- Hey, Cat, you're sounding a bit paranoid there, bud. Al Abi asked you was to just say what you know. That's far from speaking to you like you're her 'mortal enemy'. Do you really know anything about Jagdeo like you've said you do? All Abi's doing is asking you to finally talk: ... you said you knew something about Jagdeo. Can you just tell us for the record again every single thing you know about Jagdeo? Nothing too hostile there. Indeed, given how coy you've been about all this shit it's more than reasonable for her to specifically ask you for 'every single thing' you know. But it's hardly hostile. Then she asks you: Do you admit that Brendon O'Hara was involved in DLM finances? Again, straightforward. Either you're going to answer it or not but you sure can't fault her for asking. Finally: And just for the record, how do you know for sure that all of the 'rumours' about Padarthanand are untrue? Again, the 'mortal enemy' is all in your scaredy cat little mind, I'm afraid. Poor, poor Cat.

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Date: Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 22:43:25 (EST) From: CW Email: None To: Jim Subject: Jim? Did I speak to Jim? Message:

Bugger off you fool

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 14:11:41 (EST) From: Jim Email: None To: CW Subject: Yes, Cat, you were speaking to my heart [nt] Message:

[nt]

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Date: Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 10:15:26 (EST) From: salsa Email: None To: All Subject: American Airlines plane went down Message:

on Queen, NY, a few minutes a go. The cause of the crash is unknowkn still.

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Date: Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 13:36:19 (EST) From: Sir Dave Email: None To: salsa Subject: What eyewitnesses say Message:

I have posted my theory, based upon known evidence. Click on the above link to read it. [ My post on AG Too ]

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Date: Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 07:34:11 (EST) From: Desperate Dan Email: None To: All Subject: Those changes in full Message:

We apologise to some viewers who may have been confused by recent changes. Following hot on the heels of such an evolving teacher, it's hard to keep up. Anyway, click on the above link to see how far we've come! [ The fully evolved website ]

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Date: Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 10:48:07 (EST) From: Ranger Rick Email: None To: Desperate Dan Subject: But wasn't amaroo declared a.. Message:

sanctuary for animals? Isn't there some sign stating that the amaroo grounds are an animal habitat or sanctuary? Once again, m has shot himself in the foot... and to think, he was just a 'hare' away from getting back some credibility....

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Date: Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 18:27:42 (EST) From: The Dept of Enviroment. Email: None To: Ranger Rick Subject: Re: But wasn't amaroo declared a.. Message:

[nt]

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Date: Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 19:35:05 (EST) From: The Dept of Enviroment Email: None To: The Dept of Enviroment. Subject: Ranger Catweasel Message:

--- In Australia it is considered an offence not control vermin. Rabbits are vermin. You are not permitted to let them live on your property without some evidence of control measures.

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Date: Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 10:59:56 (EST) From: LOL Email: None To: Ranger Rick Subject: Re: But wasn't amaroo declared a.. Message:

Yes, this really is TOO funny!!! On one of the amaroo videos, and maybe on m's website, there is a sign at the front of the amaroo property that clearly states that the grounds are some sort of protected animal habitat. And then we find out that the master goes out and shoots rabbits on the preserve!! Isn't this the usual MO for this guy? TOO FUNNY!!!

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Date: Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 05:08:38 (EST) From: J Email: macabailmdk@hotmail.com To: All Subject: CW:Looking for info... Message:

Hello Everyone, It seems I may have found the forum I've been searching for... I met, on my way to london england, a pair of nice young women who were kind enough to tell me about Maharaji... Since then (about 2 months ago) I've been searching for more information. Now I've noticed that CW seems to have an abundant supply, so perhaps you could email me (macabailmdk@hotmail.com) so information. Any help is much appreciated, Thanks, J

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 14:54:06 (EST) From: Deborah Email: None To: J Subject: Re: CW:Looking for info... Message:

Hi J, So you met a pair of nice women. Was that like a matching set of nice women. The reason you think CW has something to say about Maharaji, is that he is one of the few people left in the cult who is fighting adamantly to salvage whatever reputation Maha has left. Why don't you let some of the people on this forum fill you in on the good stuff. deborah p.s. No disrespect. It's funny how people looking for Maha find this place? Happened to me 2 years ago. I was actually looking to see what Maha was up and fell into the ex-premie forum.

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Date: Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 07:44:34 (EST) From: Small Planet Catweasel Email: None To: J Subject: Re: CW:Looking for info... Message:

Yes ,I love the ole Hotmail. Expect communication from another Hotmail sent from an internet cafe. And Anth? He's full of it

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Date: Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 11:51:05 (EST) From: AJW Email: None To: Small Planet Catweasel Subject: What me Paranoid? Message:

Yes ,I love the ole Hotmail. Expect communication from another Hotmail sent from an internet cafe. And Anth? He's full of it --- I guess you'll be wearing a long coat and sunglasses. Make sure you're not followed on the way home Cat. And check those cornflakes for small transmitters tomorrow morning. Anth, the flower child.

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Date: Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 07:00:31 (EST) From: AJW Email: None To: J Subject: Yes, a good idea. Message:

Hello Everyone, It seems I may have found the forum I've been searching for... I met, on my way to london england, a pair of nice young women who were kind enough to tell me about Maharaji... Since then (about 2 months ago) I've been searching for more information. Now I've noticed that CW seems to have an abundant supply, so perhaps you could email me (macabailmdk@hotmail.com) so information. Any help is much appreciated, Thanks, J --- If you're looking for a Master to worship, and dwindling group of misfits who believe they have a monopoly on the secret of life, CW is the right person to talk to. He has all the answers for someone like yourself. If I was interested in joining a cult, I'd talk to someone like him. I'm sure he'll respond to your request. Good luck on your journey. Who knows, you may even discover a living incarnation of God Almighty along your path somewhere. (Of course, only those who understand his teaching will recognise his divinity.) Anth the blind.

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Date: Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 06:11:29 (EST) From: Tim G Email: timgitti@indigo.ie To: J Subject: Re: CW:Looking for info... Message:

Hi J We have an abundant supply of info here. Better still go to ex-premie.org and do some indepth research. All that glitters is not gold, as we learnt to our cost. But you can have a lot of fun debating with us here. Anyway it's always a treat to meet two nice young women. All the best Tim

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Date: Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 07:47:34 (EST) From: CW Email: None To: Tim G Subject: Hey J!!! Message:

These guys are bitter and twisted, all over the hill,with the sensitivity of a jackhammer. Post here at your peril. Be in contact as I said.

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Date: Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 17:57:55 (EST) From: Gail Email: gcmacdougall@yahoo.com To: CW Subject: THE ONE, THE ONLY CAAAAATWHEEESAAL! Message:

These guys are bitter and twisted, all over the hill, with the sensitivity of a jackhammer. Post here at your peril. What a character you are! How can you say this stuff? I don't feel bitter and twisted but I am angry at times, and rightly so. I was lied to. Who are you calling over-the-hill? We're about the same age. Last, but not least--post your your peril. You've spent more time out here than I have, and it hasn't done a thing to your beliefs. All joking aside, how do you manage to read this site day in and day out and keep your doubt-maker at bay. I know we have had similar experiences. I felt extremely high at programs. Many times I thought my heart would fly out of my mouth and collapse at his feet. I a lot of faith in Maharaji. Geez, I flew all the way to your neck of the woods and back on an invalid plane ticket (BestWay Travel was not the best way. The overworked agent issued me a ticket for the right dates but entered me into the computer for the wrong days which = INVALID TICKET) because I knew it was just another test from the Great One. Amazing things happened because we had great faith in our Lord. It was really the collective high that manifested. Well, Maharaji's not the Lord of the Universe anymore, I don't have to believe in him or anything he says. What's his hold on you? You have indicated that you know he's just a person, so what keeps you bound to him. You like EPO deep down, you know it's true. I don't know about you, Cat. You hiss and scratch at folks around here in a very unpremie-like way; yet, you are a nice guy. Please be be a lot nicer to Abi. In this context, nobody is going to tell bogus rape stories--you know it and I know. If you don't get out soon, then I hope you're a lifer. The pain of leaving Maharaji as a pensioner (speaking of being over the hill, eh?) might be worse than facing the facts in your forties. If Maharaji is right for you, so be it! Just try not to scratch anyone's eyes out for the love of God. Here's looking at you kid!

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 14:35:21 (EST) From: Deborah Email: None To: Gail Subject: Hey Gail, I had similar experiences Message:

No really, seriously. Shit. When I wanted to go to programs the database Angels would fudge the perception of the people in my way (unless Maha threw an unexpected lila, than I'd meditate and try again) and persist. That's how we justified those miracles, in the ole days. I was in California and had to get back to Miami. I had an expired ticket from Miami to Tampa and just walked up (remembering HOly what's it's Name) and boldly handed the person the ticket. Next thing you know I'm carrying my bordering pass. I even went across a border with someone else's picture ID one time. Go figure. This type of shit happened on a regular bases to some premies I KNEW.

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Date: Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 19:15:43 (EST) From: CW Email: None To: Gail Subject: Re: THE ONE, THE ONLY CAAAAATWHEEESAAL! Message:

Hi Gail I was fortunate to be around M from early on. Not as on any personal level.(no stopping for that friendly chat) But is obvious he is just what he says he is - a teacher and to me he is my chosen (this the critical factor) Master. I've actually enjoyed practising knowledge for at least 10 years now. Before I was scatty. About 1989 I woke up to the fact that practicing K was about sitting down and doing it.The words , the discourses. There was nothing over the top or particularily mystical about them. It was simply this 'you have a gift. It is now yours.Cherish it , value it and experience it. Give it a try. And when you forget, I'll remind you that it's still there' I am not a believer type of guy. What got you through that Airline experience was through your own efforts. He doesn't have a 'hold' on me, never did. I actually like him. He is a very practical down to earth guy. Nothing like what gets portrayed here. And he does have shall we say, a special charisma. Pretty soon there will be no group thing. Satellite to your home. The website and when he's in our neck of the woods , go along and listen and perhaps get the chance to interact. The thing that has screwed it for many people is their expectations. I dont expect anything so when things come my way, it's a pleasant surprise. As well a lot of people forgot that they are the same as the next guy and started to enjoy a bit of 'power' (You experienced the rough end of that.)And that behavior is abhorrent. The reason I am here? Balance - I'm not malicious , some of the stuff pushed out here is very wrong. The facts are often unsubstantiated. When you were involved you hated the 'hierarchy' lying to you? What's the difference here? A lot of career P's are now finding out there is more to life than what they imagined.They now have plenty of free time. It is a freeing time. Initiated by M. Like I said below, the way it works for me is simple. There is just me ,knowledge and my beloved master. And like Mira, I clean up my hut everyday and pick fresh berries. The 'hierarchy of participation' is just a big greasy pole. Get to the top and there is nothing there. Like I said it is really a personal journey and that is the simplicity. Abi? She has been very poorly advised by a coupla self serving attorneys with agenda's other than her welfare. There IS a process that she(and only she) needs to put in train . To date it hasn't happened.Until it does , it's just a publicity campaign. I have more sympathy and empathy for Abi than you imagine.On a career and personal level I am not unfamiliar with the victims of abuse. What has been happening to date does not help her in any way shape or form.

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Date: Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 08:52:38 (EST) From: Abi Email: None To: CW Subject: Re: Hey J!!! Message:

J: don't go near CW - all he does is play games and after a while they become puerile. But you must have noticed that, right...?

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Date: Sun, Nov 11, 2001 at 21:53:22 (EST) From: gerry Email: None To: All Subject: Said Simple Simon to the Pieman... Message:

Ziga Valetic: After the field is prepared From Ljubljana, Slovenia Today is a great day for me. I am content. I reap what I've sown and the harvest is plentifull. And I can't even imagine what it would be without the seeds my master blessed me with. I give some of these goods back to my master and he blesses me with more seeds. And the cycle gets repeated again and again. Life with it is simple and straight. It might be more than I expect - which is just because of these divine seeds. Only god knows where my master finds them.

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Date: Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 03:55:56 (EST) From: Peter, Peter Pumpkin eater Email: None To: gerry Subject: Had a wife and couldn't cheat her Message:

So he put her in a knowledge shell And there he duped her very well

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Date: Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 13:18:56 (EST) From: ()) Email: None To: Peter, Peter Pumpkin eater Subject: ()) Message:

())

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Date: Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 01:02:17 (EST) From: Francesca Email: None To: gerry Subject: Oh, oh. The bad seed! ~) [nt] Message:

[nt]

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Date: Sun, Nov 11, 2001 at 15:20:15 (EST) From: Messenger Boy Email: None To: All Subject: Life is Great needs a blood transfusion Message:

The have been no new threads posted for three days on LIG. Before that there were less than a dozen messages posted over the course of a week. The latest new message was posted over a day ago and that was by an ex. Meanwhile this joint is jumping.

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Date: Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 09:04:00 (EST) From: bill Email: None To: Messenger Boy Subject: Here is todays post Message:

Greetings Milificent, and all LG folks, I think the Indian Sages were going a little easy on god by allowing him the sat chit anand robe. I see the butt end of the god and it aint pretty. Jesus said 'the devil knows not for whom he works' and I do think he is on to something there. In america, in the comedy field, there are jokes about Good Dave and Evil dave, or whomever you are joking about. How one character has two distinct sides, kind of like some cartoon characters that get an angel on one shoulder and a devil on the other and they battle to win the influence over the characters head in the middle. If the Vedenta doesnt cover the subject of that good/bad thing god has going on, then the Vendanta needs an update. You of course have some close confirmation of how that devil thing steps into the mix because of the intense history of your region involving religion. Where religions about god collide, it is always hell. Amazing how that is, and also, I know a number of quite religious guys in my town and boy do they ever keep having difficulties behaving as they think they should in thier lives. You know, you bring up a very interesting point; -You are God'. In other words, God is not somewhere out there, but present in the heart of hearts of all beings. You just need to be aware of it. Of course, this is 'hot stuff' from a theist point of view because it dissolves any need for churches, middle-men and preachers.- I understand your point and I like it but there is one more need that isnt met. And that is how to get over that boundry line the god put where we are safe from delusion and deception and tyranny and all the actions of the 'devil' working through man. Although it causes so many problems, the church structure is a defense against human weakness. Sounds nuts, but because we cant actually get to god and stay there while we are alive here, it brings about a host of problems and issues that have to be dealt with.I myself cant come up with the superior system to replace the faulty one society has today with our religions and the mess they bring. If we could actually merge with god, we could revamp and replace religion here on earth. But, no one can do it! God, might give us a minutes worth of satchit anand, but that is about it, a small hit. I have to face that, there is a boundry even to our experience that we may call satchitanand. That speaks volumes about the set up here and so again I am left with the opinion that god is not just all bliss, but he is also a game playing bastard. Maybe for the sake of drama as you said, I would say the most evidence I see points to my opinion that the prime directive or motive of the god is creativity. What makes for the most creativity is the overriding motive. Perhaps. bill

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Date: Tues, Nov 13, 2001 at 08:47:49 (EST) From: JohnT Email: None To: bill Subject: I believe! Message:

I believe that the here and now is good, and worth working to improve; that human suffering is bad, and worth seeking to mitigate; and that life and peace, beauty and plenty, are to be sought as ends in themselves, for ourselves and for those who succeed us. I believe this world and its future matters, matters completely, matters more than anything. I believe this world is real. I know of no other. Not my words, I regret to say, but I thoroughly concur! The writer and journalist Matthew Parris wrote the above in this article published in The Spectator, a right-of-centre UK weekly paper.

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Date: Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 09:29:18 (EST) From: bill-anyone that thinks the song Email: None To: bill Subject: IMAGINE has validity, please respond to above Message:

[nt]

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Date: Sun, Nov 11, 2001 at 20:59:46 (EST) From: SC Email: None To: Messenger Boy Subject: well surprise surprise Message:

you don't actually think....no... they couldn't actually be... out there in the real world...actually... enjoying their lives? no, it's unthinkable....

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Date: Mon, Nov 12, 2001 at 04:01:27 (EST) From: Pat:C) Email: None To: SC Subject: Out enjoying life unlike you Message:

you don't actually think....no... they couldn't actually be... out there in the real world...actually... enjoying their lives? no, it's unthinkable.... --- You sure are a martyr to the cause, sweetie dahling.

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Date: Sun, Nov 11, 2001 at 18:57:00 (EST) From: Deborah Email: None To: Messenger Boy Subject: Three guesses WHY? Message:

Only the first two don't count. ;)

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Date: Sun, Nov 11, 2001 at 19:54:50 (EST) From: Brian Smith Email: None To: Deborah Subject: The 3rd guess is because you are banned from there [nt] Message:

[nt]

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Date: Sun, Nov 11, 2001 at 20:10:04 (EST) From: Pat:C) Email: None To: Brian Smith Subject: Exes banned or bored and... Message:

...two premies who used to post there whom I email have told me that they no longer will as they do not want to be associated with the nasty anonymous cultweasels. And then of course someone with all those multiple personalities has stopped posting too.

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Date: Sun, Nov 11, 2001 at 21:06:16 (EST) From: SC Email: None To: Pat:C) Subject: 3 Pat 3 Message:

Cerise - MK - and SC One off joke posts don't figure do they? You've had at least six , including pretending to be me and CW for an entire thread, so don't go down that road - unless you want to kiss a brick wall. But hang on.....3 is 'multiple' isn't it? Oh shit you sussed me right again......:(

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Date: Sun, Nov 11, 2001 at 21:43:38 (EST) From: Salam Email: None To: SC Subject: You're sounding like a dork Message:

lately. Wazup? Why are you taking it on your shoulders to rid the world of the exes evil doers? Must be hard yakka, or has your camp run out of fighters. You're going to get stressed if you keep going like that. Take a break, go to the beach.

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Date: Sun, Nov 11, 2001 at 22:43:56 (EST) From: Desperate Dan Email: None To: Salam Subject: Where dorks don't go Message:

OK Salam. Open up a six pack and get those Sheila's down here to the place where real men meet. (See above link) [ Where real men meet ]

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Date: Sun, Nov 11, 2001 at 10:19:59 (EST) From: IT IS SO Email: None To: All Subject: Fragmentation revisited Message:

I have re-done Abis' post regarding Jagdeo. Let's see what caca has to say about it. [ Fragmentation ]

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Date: Sun, Nov 11, 2001 at 10:44:31 (EST) From: salsa Email: None To: IT IS SO Subject: bad link NT Message:

yeap

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Date: Sun, Nov 11, 2001 at 12:04:38 (EST) From: sorry Email: None To: salsa Subject: try again Message:

http://www.geocities.com/it_is_soau/Jagdeo/Abi.html [ fragmentation ]

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