Ex-Premie Forum 7 Archive
From: Nov 07, 2001 To: Nov 13, 2001 Page: 4 of: 5


Repost of Catweasel -:- re; John McGregor -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 19:42:31 (EST)
__ Mickey the Pharisee -:- Re: re; John McGregor -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 10:17:05 (EST)
__ __ CW -:- Re: re; John McGregor -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 19:46:09 (EST)
__ __ __ Jim -:- God, I wish you could see yourself! -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 20:31:37 (EST)
__ __ __ __ E.B. White -:- A water gun, at that... -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 20:54:51 (EST)
__ AJW -:- Is this the best you can do Cat? -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 05:52:47 (EST)
__ __ CW -:- You should know by now.. -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 08:56:01 (EST)
__ __ __ AJW -:- Yawn. -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 09:34:37 (EST)
__ Deborah -:- Debunking nonsense [nt] -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 21:05:40 (EST)

Vicki -:- New people -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 19:33:27 (EST)
__ Mike Finch -:- Compromise Forum -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 09:35:43 (EST)
__ __ Jim -:- That's interesting -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 16:12:21 (EST)
__ Loaf -:- Re: New people -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 02:25:31 (EST)
__ Pat:C) -:- Another great post, Vicki -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 19:50:44 (EST)
__ __ Vicki -:- Ooops! Please correct any and all typos! (nt) -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 05:41:59 (EST)
__ __ Richard -:- Very true Vicki -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 20:21:35 (EST)

Is he -:- after something...??? -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 18:05:11 (EST)
__ Vicki -:- Re: after something...??? -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 06:28:41 (EST)
__ __ Vicki -:- Link -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 06:34:20 (EST)
__ bill -:- Just buttin in -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 05:27:05 (EST)

Joe -:- McGregor says M DID Harbor a Pedophile.. -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 16:49:25 (EST)
__ Joe -:- Request to John B -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 16:59:33 (EST)
__ __ JHB -:- Re: Request to John B -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 20:07:13 (EST)

Joe -:- Maharaji Cult Attack Websites - Day 6 -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 13:17:23 (EST)
__ Richard -:- Re: Maharaji Cult Attack Websites - Day 6 -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 14:14:23 (EST)
__ __ Joe -:- They also Backfired -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 14:54:49 (EST)
__ __ __ Deborah -:- I agree -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 18:21:41 (EST)
__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- I don't like being threatened either -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 16:38:05 (EST)

Sir Dave -:- New knowledge technique -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 07:28:09 (EST)
__ hamzen -:- You think you're mad sir d -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 09:21:40 (EST)
__ __ berni -:- You must be mad :lol -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 16:58:33 (EST)
__ __ shocked -:- I heard the new technique was -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 12:40:24 (EST)
__ __ __ Postie -:- Simple misunderstanding -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 13:06:01 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Read this !!! Read this !!!!! -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 00:48:30 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Vicki -:- Re: Simple misunderstanding -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 19:05:26 (EST)

Julian -:- Gerry, what's this with Bjorn?? -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 21:06:57 (EST)
__ CW -:- Rabbits are Vermin -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 01:50:14 (EST)
__ __ Nottingham Bunnie -:- 'We also shoot cats, pigs,goats ,donkeys..' -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 03:17:31 (EST)
__ __ __ Croc Catweasel -:- They shoot horses dont they? -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 05:12:12 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Bullseye! -:- Catweasels, too -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 11:14:36 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ CW -:- Re: Catweasels, too -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 14:56:26 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Sommelier and sommelier -:- Eau de crapweasel -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 18:20:13 (EST)
__ __ Hey Catweasel -:- I bet you are jealous of -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 02:24:04 (EST)
__ __ __ CW -:- Oh Really? -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 05:13:23 (EST)
__ __ __ __ try asking those -:- who were there -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 07:14:16 (EST)
__ Marianne -:- Bjorn's libelous emails about me -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 22:00:46 (EST)
__ __ Susan -:- It is disgusting and sad that Bjorn -:- Sun, Nov 11, 2001 at 15:32:10 (EST)
__ __ __ Marianne -:- Thanks, Susan -:- Sun, Nov 11, 2001 at 16:47:27 (EST)
__ __ Tonette -:- Sick and scary stuff Marianne -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 16:12:12 (EST)
__ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Re: Sick and scary stuff Marianne -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 16:28:45 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Barbara -:- Forget sociopathy. Try Criminal. -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 17:00:06 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Yes, Barbara. Also, Marianne and Joe... -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 17:07:56 (EST)
__ __ Abi -:- Re: Bjorn's libelous emails about me -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 07:01:37 (EST)
__ __ __ Marianne -:- Thanks Abi -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 11:51:16 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Marianne... -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 12:01:40 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Re: Marianne... -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 12:18:31 (EST)
__ __ Pat:C) -:- If you need anything, just ask, Marianne -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 02:58:32 (EST)
__ __ __ Catweasel -:- Attention! Calling all Drama Queen's!! -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 05:15:45 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Abi -:- Re: Attention! Calling all Drama Queen's!! -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 07:03:18 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Thanks, Abi, for your chivalry... -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 16:24:22 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Catweasel -:- Re: Thanks, Abi, for your chivalry... -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 19:10:30 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ CW -:- and furthermore -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 04:33:48 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cult Spotter -:- Spiritual advice, from a creepy ghost. (NT) -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 04:21:21 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ CW -:- Re: Attention! Calling all Drama Queen's!! -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 15:00:39 (EST)
__ __ Deborah -:- Fuckin Bjorn...I knew he was a cacweasel -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 22:23:03 (EST)

Nogbad the Bad -:- Liverpool Latvian night - Wha-hey..! -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 19:50:37 (EST)
__ Loaf who was there -:- Re: Liverpool Latvian night - Wha-hey..! -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 04:50:35 (EST)
__ __ Moley -:- Loafie: Liverpool Latvian night - Wha-hey..! -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 12:07:27 (EST)
__ __ A friend of Graculus -:- Are you the honorary dragon, Loaf? -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 07:17:14 (EST)
__ __ __ Loaf -:- Re: Are you the honorary dragon, Loaf? -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 07:26:26 (EST)
__ __ __ __ cq -:- it IS you!!! and a great honour it must be -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 07:35:54 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Loaf -:- I am humbled and honoured. -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 07:52:56 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- so you should be. Now, for the picture posts -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 09:11:04 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Loaf -:- Pic test ! -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 10:50:12 (EST)
__ Deborah -:- Glad you guys had a good time :) [nt] -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 20:49:17 (EST)
__ __ magiclara -:- Peg! -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 08:01:56 (EST)
__ Pauline Premie -:- You F___ing Brits -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 20:47:07 (EST)
__ __ Moley -:- Re: You F___ing Brits -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 21:16:24 (EST)
__ __ __ Vicki -:- Pauline and Moley -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 21:47:04 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Moley -:- okie-dokie Vickey -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 22:17:19 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Great poem Moley -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 23:09:28 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Moley has her main sheet up, Deborah:) -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 03:19:00 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Loaf -:- Moley is often 3 sheets to the wind [nt] -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 12:30:18 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Moley -:- Moley has her main sheet up, LOL :) xx -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 12:11:07 (EST)
__ Mickey the Pharisee -:- Re: re; John McGregor -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 10:17:05 (EST)
__ __ CW -:- Re: re; John McGregor -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 19:46:09 (EST)
__ __ __ Jim -:- God, I wish you could see yourself! -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 20:31:37 (EST)
__ __ __ __ E.B. White -:- A water gun, at that... -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 20:54:51 (EST)
__ AJW -:- Is this the best you can do Cat? -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 05:52:47 (EST)
__ __ CW -:- You should know by now.. -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 08:56:01 (EST)
__ __ __ AJW -:- Yawn. -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 09:34:37 (EST)
__ Deborah -:- Debunking nonsense [nt] -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 21:05:40 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Great image Pat:C) [nt] -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 11:42:38 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Vicki -:- ROTF...=rolling on the floor (nt) -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 23:05:19 (EST)
__ mags -:- Re: Liverpool Latvian night - Wha-hey..! -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 20:01:24 (EST)
__ __ Moley -:- re: Magiclara's being -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 20:09:09 (EST)
__ __ __ magiclara/mags -:- Re: re: Magiclara's being -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 20:11:52 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Nigel -:- Hmm... -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 20:41:01 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Loaf -:- Re: Hmm... -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 04:44:33 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Moley -:- Re: wot is a being or heing -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 20:23:52 (EST)
__ Noggin the Nog -:- Northlands Latvian Nite to come soon -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 19:58:50 (EST)
__ __ Marianne -:- I miss the Brits! -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 11:31:01 (EST)
__ __ __ magiclara -:- Re: I miss the Brits! -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 11:55:08 (EST)
__ gerry -:- OOOOOOOOh another cell meeting, Aye???? -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 19:58:13 (EST)
__ __ Moley -:- Gerry-plotting the Filament's demise -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 20:03:09 (EST)
__ __ __ mags -:- Re: Gerry-plotting the Filament's demise -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 20:05:21 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Moley -:- Re: Gerry-plotting the Filament's demise -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 20:11:08 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Well, I'm green with envy ;) -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 21:02:13 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Disculta -:- Yes, Pat darling -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 01:25:51 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Count me in -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 11:33:09 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Mraianne, let me talk to the boys -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 13:12:49 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Vicki -:- Re: Mraianne, let me talk to the boys -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 17:18:05 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Will do, Vicki. We'll have some fun. [nt] -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 19:37:15 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- It must be ESPmail. I knew you'd be first -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 03:23:48 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Vicki -:- Green with envy -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 21:52:38 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- We'll have an SF Latvian night -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 03:31:01 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Moley -:- Re: Well, I'm green with envy ;) -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 21:20:46 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- I will email you. Have fun plotting:) [nt] -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 03:33:50 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Moley -:- Pat :) -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 12:09:41 (EST)

JHB -:- EPO Forum Intro/Recent Exes -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 17:57:53 (EST)
__ Jim -:- Re: EPO Forum Intro/Recent Exes -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 21:49:42 (EST)
__ __ Mike Finch -:- A compromise -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 09:31:13 (EST)
__ __ JHB -:- Re: EPO Forum Intro/Recent Exes -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 04:46:04 (EST)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Bad analogy, John -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 12:19:01 (EST)
__ __ __ __ JHB -:- It's true, you have the wrong impression -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 20:26:19 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Quit insulting me, John -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 22:26:28 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- Yes, you have raised legitimate issues.... -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 16:34:30 (EST)
__ __ __ XYZ -:- Re: Bad analogy, John -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 15:17:11 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- What a foolish comment! -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 19:41:03 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ XYZ -:- Re: What a foolish comment! -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 20:35:43 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Re: What a foolish comment! -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 22:29:19 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Infract the forum is a social club -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 22:47:59 (EST)
__ __ __ XYZ -:- Re: Bad argument Jim -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 15:11:05 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Again, sheer stupidity -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 19:42:34 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ XYZ -:- Name Calling? -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 20:29:30 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ JohnT -:- that's your assumption! -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 03:55:22 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Cultists making assumptions -:- Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 04:30:24 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Re: Name Calling? -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 22:16:54 (EST)
__ __ Moley -:- What about a 3rd Forum? -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 22:41:06 (EST)
__ __ __ Deborah -:- Re: What about a 3rd Forum?????????? -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 23:49:15 (EST)
__ Nigel -:- Hmm.. -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 20:50:13 (EST)
__ __ JHB -:- Re: Hmm.. -:- Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 04:52:34 (EST)
__ peg -:- Thanks for all your work John [nt] -:- Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 19:03:11 (EST)


Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 19:42:31 (EST)
From: Repost of Catweasel
Email: None
To: All
Subject: re; John McGregor
Message:
What keeps me here is the amazement at the furballs you are willing to swallow. EG: J McG was never close like he describes. Only ever by accident. He has been bitter about not being accepted in to 'the gang' (his vision)for most of the nineties. He has not been close to M in all that time. Good fiction but only hearsay.
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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 10:17:05 (EST)
From: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: None
To: Repost of Catweasel
Subject: Re: re; John McGregor
Message:
Let's face it; even if Marolyn decided to leave M and posted here exposing everything M has done, CW would post the claim that she was never really close and just wanted to be. Heck, if M suddenly discovered his conscience and repented of all the evil he and Elan Vital have done, CW would post that M was never really close and was a wannabe.
CW's post regarding John McGregor is just his usual knee-jerk reaction.
Mickey who was never really close and didn't even want to be the Pharisee
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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 19:46:09 (EST)
From: CW
Email: None
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: Re: re; John McGregor
Message:
Mickey that just isn't true. John though is another matter.I'm not questioning him as a person.He is a very nice cynical guy.I respect cynism.But he cannot say the things he said with any authority
For instance , he spent nearly all of his time in Sept 2000 at the Airport greeting the guests. Anything he spouts about that time is gossip made to sound legitimate via his undoubted writing style(a little verbose John).
The Australian population just elected the same scrawny little turkey back to office on the basis of Khaki and Race. The little Turd managed to convince the rabid Right to vote him, 'little Johnny'. He did this by attacking 'Illegal refugee's' and 'terrorists' thus convincing the One Nation lunatic's(Far,far right- Enoch Powell - like) that they did not need to register a protest vote against the conservative parties. He decimated One Nation and picked off enough votes to comfortably get himself , the little prick , over the line.
Point of the story? HE TOLD THEM WHAT THEY WANTED TO HEAR.He lied about refugees setting fire to their boat. He lied about refugees threatening to drown their children.He fought with the Asiatic hordes of Indonesia. He act's 'like a real white man'
Exactly what societies xenophobic fringe love to hear and see.
John? He tell's you what you want to hear. He does his homework, his research and then he regurgitates your beliefs in a comfortable refined format.You know Mickey, John's can be like that!
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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 20:31:37 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: God, I wish you could see yourself!
Message:
Mickey that just isn't true. John though is another matter.I'm not questioning him as a person.He is a very nice cynical guy.I respect cynism.But he cannot say the things he said with any authority
For instance , he spent nearly all of his time in Sept 2000 at the Airport greeting the guests. Anything he spouts about that time is gossip made to sound legitimate via his undoubted writing style(a little verbose John).
The Australian population just elected the same scrawny little turkey back to office on the basis of Khaki and Race. The little Turd managed to convince the rabid Right to vote him, 'little Johnny'. He did this by attacking 'Illegal refugee's' and 'terrorists' thus convincing the One Nation lunatic's(Far,far right- Enoch Powell - like) that they did not need to register a protest vote against the conservative parties. He decimated One Nation and picked off enough votes to comfortably get himself , the little prick , over the line.
Point of the story? HE TOLD THEM WHAT THEY WANTED TO HEAR.He lied about refugees setting fire to their boat. He lied about refugees threatening to drown their children.He fought with the Asiatic hordes of Indonesia. He act's 'like a real white man'
Exactly what societies xenophobic fringe love to hear and see.
John? He tell's you what you want to hear. He does his homework, his research and then he regurgitates your beliefs in a comfortable refined format.You know Mickey, John's can be like that!


---

You're astoundingly ineffectual, Cat. I've heard of shooting blanks before but what you do is even worse. You just hold the gun up in the air and say 'bang'. Worthless. Absolutely worthless.

As everyone's always said, if you want to dispute something you have to put your cards on the table. What specifically is John wrong about? Spell it out properly, supporting evidence and all, or shut up.

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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 20:54:51 (EST)
From: E.B. White
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: A water gun, at that...
Message:
Time for Cat to go to the vet. His coat's getting a bit matted. His grammar and punctuation (or the lack thereof) are a sure indication he's got worms. Content is nil, as usual.
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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 05:52:47 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Repost of Catweasel
Subject: Is this the best you can do Cat?
Message:
It's pathetic.

So, you don't dispute any of John's claims then?

You have lots in common with the German guards defending Hitler's bunker against the Russians, 'Waiting for the Third Army to break through from the West'.

It's all over Cat. Luckily so many passengers left already there's plenty of room in the lifeboats.

Pack it in and go home mate. It's finished.

Anthski Ginski, lovechild of Mother Theresa and Joseph Stalin.

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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 08:56:01 (EST)
From: CW
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: You should know by now..
Message:
I am not going to bite.
Anthony, I could do very well.But what would be the point.You are all believing what you want, especially you. Choose to think it's over if you wish. It's really irrelevant to most of us who actually enjoy it all.You can be such a sad old fuck............Pathos is your middle name.
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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 09:34:37 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: Yawn.
Message:
I am not going to bite.
Anthony, I could do very well.But what would be the point.You are all believing what you want, especially you. Choose to think it's over if you wish. It's really irrelevant to most of us who actually enjoy it all.You can be such a sad old fuck............Pathos is your middle name.


---

sorry, I missed that, were you going to say something. Zzzzzzz.

anth the wake me up when the footballs on.

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 21:05:40 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Repost of Catweasel
Subject: Debunking nonsense [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 19:33:27 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: All
Subject: New people
Message:
I think I know what is so scary about coming to this forum.

People might be reading and getting educated in the facts presented on EPO, but when it comes to actually posting, it's like crossing a line. Up until then, it's possible to kind of just stay in a bubble with all the conflicting emotions, rationals and wonderings safely enveloped, and no one knows. Once the decision is made to post, it's an entirely different thing. It's a step, one very big step.

Stepping over the line of demarkation from the world of knowledge into this forum of ex-premies, means either one is defecting or becoming a traitor to that wonderful perfect master. At least this is what it feels like. It's a decision, and it's a decision no one makes lightly.

So posting is a very tenuous commitment of sorts, mostly to one's self. It's a huge admission that not all is perfect in the land of knowledge.

We all come in different stages and with different temperments. What one needs another might not. But the term 'landing pad' kinda accurately described what is needed.

So if it's possible to combine the suggestions without sacrificing the wonderful intensity and honesty of the forum, I'm sure people who are out there reading right now will be most appreciative.
I know we all look forward to hearing what they have to say, and how their lives have been affected.

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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 09:35:43 (EST)
From: Mike Finch
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: Compromise Forum
Message:
I just posted this response to Jim down below, but it seems to be relevant your post Vicki, so I am posting it again here (the italics are from Jim's post):

Assuming that the online ex-premie community continues to grow, I still worry about a whole lot of people starting to join that select, private group. They'll all be able to read the regular forum, of course, although none of the regulars here can do the same there. I just don't like it.

This suggestion has been made before, but I think it would answser most of your concerns, Jim, and also most of the concerns of exes or would-be exes: Have a forum which is password-protected to post, but open to be read by anyone.

I know there would still be a bunch of issues (how is it determined who gets a password to post ? How could the FA distinguish a genuine recent ex, who has no well known-ex to vouch for him/her, from a shit-stirrer ?), but if there is going to be a Forum that really caters to exiting premies, has a large audience, and is focused and credible, I think it will need to be something like that.

-- Mike

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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 16:12:21 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Mike Finch
Subject: That's interesting
Message:
Actually, Mike, this is really interesting. I take it the forum id's would be optionally anonymous? That'd be the whole point, right? Allowing tentative and new exes to discuss matters, with each other at least, so they can think things out by talking them out? Others could read what they're saying and even comment, as they would, here on what they read but the participants could just stay focussed on their own dialogues there or, if they chose, avail themselves of the indirect feedback? Interesting at least.

One real benefit of that plan is that it allows other premies to read and benefit form the process just by lurking but doesn't allow them to interfere.

Worth thinking about.

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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 02:25:31 (EST)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: Re: New people
Message:
I agree Vicks... and itis also important that people are allowed to remain anonymous until they are ready.

Despite all the high handed campaigning re jagdeo and alchohol..these causes, although highly significant personally and in PR terms more visible, are no more important that the subtle, quiet displacement of a persons relationship with their culture, country and family (ie their 'influences)... the World, being replaced with an imaginary 'relationship' with an undefined 'phantom' - 'My Guru' (70s) Maharaji (NOT the person.. but the icon, the idol and the on-stage personality).. with 'that feeling' , again undefined and whilst being tangible subjectively, and very precious, it is, non the less, an illusion created by shared need.

What Maharaji does, most skillfully and also 'intelligently' (HA !)is to build a series of assumptions which carry a person from one place to another. 10 steps which WOULD constitute ONE leap of faith in the 1970s and early 80s when he the style and focus of his presentation was EXPLICIT.. but since then has become IMPLICIT:

We all need to feel happy. Agreed.
We all know that life should be enjoyed. Agreed.
The world is getting worse. Agreed.
We are all going to die one day. Agreed.
What happens before death is important. Agreed.
Books can only do so much. Agreed.
A Living Teacher can make something so much more alive. Agreed.
Life is not a dead subject. Agreed.
We all need to find help from time to time. Agreed
Maharaji can help. Agreed.

10 easy stages.

The illusion is that once you have 'bought into' those assumptions, you can undo them at a moments notice and walk away.. but it is like getting toothpaste back in its tube...

IF you question the final assumption 'maharaji can help' - you are questioning them all.. because he laid the path down.

If you question the final assumption, you are questioning your own 'heart's' judgement.

If you are questioning the judgement 'of your heart' - you are questioning THAT Feeling...and that is something nobody will do.. I WONT DO IT NOW !

That is because Questioning has become the enemy.The Illusion is that Questioning SEEMS to destroy the FEELING. It is disloyal.

Well let me tell ya folks... YOU CAN HAVE BOTH.

It takes a little bit of getting used to...but once you have crossed the bridge of assumptions you have to look at why a bridge was needed at all.

Fear of falling.

Once you start to truly OWN your experience (of Knowledge.. but also to some extent the whole bag of dirty laundry that has been unwashed in 20 years) - flying becomes an option.

No need of the old bridge.. and the two worlds... the blissful and the darshan soaked magic AND the independance of thought and relationship to our personalities which needs to be re-forged, can work together.

Its a tough one for a while.. but there is great treasure in having been on this journey... ordinary middle age never would have suited any of us really !

All the best

Loafie

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 19:50:44 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: Another great post, Vicki
Message:
Posting and getting involved here is the difference between being a former premie and an ex-premie. At first I did not want to take that step but my outrage at the criminal behavior of Rawat eventually forced me to take sides.

In case you can no longer access the edit feature I have taken the liberty of correcting one typo of yours as your post is too important to leave it. You typed ''trader'' instead of ''traitor.''

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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 05:41:59 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Ooops! Please correct any and all typos! (nt)
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 20:21:35 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Very true Vicki
Message:
I agree. This and your other posts are heartfelt and wise.

When I first started posting it was a huge bridge. The day I posted under my real name, my palms were sweaty and the fear just burned away. Fear of speaking up for what I thought. It wasn't like I had dark secrets to expose. It was more like acknowledging to myself that what I thought and felt was more important than hiding out. But down deep the 'traitor' aspect lurks. Donner wrote eloquently about this some time back vis a vis being seen as a Judas character.

I was shown a lot of respect and kindness when I first posted so it is only natural I would want to return the favor.

Richard - who wasn't posting much at all until he got listed and now has nothing to "loose"

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 18:05:11 (EST)
From: Is he
Email: None
To: All
Subject: after something...???
Message:
einstein
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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 06:28:41 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: Is he
Subject: Re: after something...???
Message:
So why is it so easy to see through this yahoo?

I've been wondering about something lately. If anyone has a take, I'd sure appreciate some input.

I came to hear about M in August '74. He was married by then and 'Durga Ji' was absolutely beautiful and serene. The two of them were so sychronized in their actions while on stage, they could have been dolphins. Then came the babies who we all watched turn into beautiful children.

M would sit and let us sing those devotional, lovey songs to him after his discourses, and we would absolutley moon over him. The pictures that were sold always showed him in a good light, whether serious or smiling or downright oozing love for the devotee. The mahatmas and initiators on tour would tell these wonderful inside stories of M. I never heard the nasty stuff. If it was a strange story, then it was always with a twist of the lord's lila, mercy, isn't it wonderful, spin.

So how is it then, with all the abuse he was spewing on x-rated premies, pams, decca premies and anyone else within yelling range, unless the spotlight was on, we bought into the all merciful giver/source of love? Even his satsangs were downright heavy handed at times. Was it this illusion that having Marolyn and the kids, and hearing what a perfectly patient father he was, set the tone for us to buy into? And then sitting up there after satsang, furthered the belief of his love for us? Especially in the various Krishna and mala outfits. And then dance us into ecstasy. Talk about passive/aggressive.

My husband said I bought into all this because M appeared unthreatening and westernized just enough to exude a bit of class instead of far out eastern mystism. His age also worked for him.
Now that he's older, he comes on like a corporate ceo, which is what we are used to in western society. Around the Indian premies, he pulls out all the stops, but keeps his behavior even more hidden.

It was near impossible to think of him as anything else than a loving perfect master, with a serene face posed for us to gaze into, especially during darshan where it was even more personalized. He still does the same thing, only now it is Daya and occasionally Wadi doing the singing, and the Rawat heir videos. It's really the same thing, isn't it, just an updated version in an expensive suit, instead of the Krishna outfits.

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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 06:34:20 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: Link
Message:
I'll get it right eventually....too early, need latte.

Phooey, click on the right side of the page where it lists
"My wish"
[ darn it ]

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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 05:27:05 (EST)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Is he
Subject: Just buttin in
Message:
Here is a little midnight madness I just posted at lifes great in response in a thread.

Hi Guys,
Today one guy at work had a religious radio station on, probably
because he has recent drug/prison issues and is groping for some stability. I wonder if you have those kind of stations in Croatia.
I dont reccomend them!
I left to work elsewhere because I really cannot listen to preachers
anymore. It made me think of that example I bet you are familiar with, the 5 blind men and the elephant.
They each are feeling a different part of the elephant and so they describe it differently.
Preachers always seem to be describing some part of the elephant that I am not contacting. So they arent really of any use. I am already touching the elephant, so I dont really need the report on thier part of the elephant unless maybe they are funny about it or jazzed by the whole thing which is how I think you Mili were being with your post below when you were talking about life is great.

your comment above;
'It's like he/she/it woke up one morning and decided to create the whole thing for the sheer fun of it. And involved Himself in all sentient beings as awareness, to enjoy the drama.'
I think you nailed it although I would insert a line having something to do with 'awareness with power options' So that it could do some steering during this drama.
I have freinds that pray and talk like this 'oh heavenly father',
but I just cannot talk like that because my part of the elephant must be around the rear end or ass, because life dumps on me with great regularity!

Actually that is one of my arguments to Jim and Scott T and Nigel and others that there must be a god because we have some boundries that make no DNA sense. One positive side of my rear end view is that I notice that no one alive is able to lead a completely successful life, and no one is able to avoid problems or getting dumped on.
If even one person could, it would support the DNA arguments, and also support those that think that god is an unconcious oneness like the buddhists think.
Wierd to say, but getting shat on in life is one of the proofs that
there is a god thingee with awareness and the power to make limits.

Just a thought from my end of the elephant guys

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 16:49:25 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: All
Subject: McGregor says M DID Harbor a Pedophile..
Message:
John MacGregor had a lot of very interesting things to say, but the following is particularly important:

Jagdeo's crimes have been known about within EV, and by Maharaji, for more than 20 years. For instance there was a high-level meeting about Jagdeo's sexual abuse of children in 1980. Jagdeo appeared to have abused the child of a premie (a woman) then living in Florida. The woman was extremely wound up about it, and the instructor Maria Isabella - among others - was brought in to try and deal with her.

Then as now, Maharaji had a very direct control, and a very thorough knowledge, of the activities of his instructors. In fact he controlled this aspect of his organisation more closely than any other. It's inconceivable that Maharaji was not aware of Jagdeo's activities then. But he chose not to act, beyond having the matter hushed up.

So, this confirms that Maharaji and Elan Vital really did harbor a man who sexually abused children, for years. In addition to the fact that I believe Susan that she told Judy Osborne and Randy Prouty in the late 70s and I find impossible to believe they didn't tell Maharaji. I also believe that Abi's father told Charanand in the early 80s. Now we are told that Maharaji knew about Jagdeo at least by 1980, from someone else.

This also personally freaks me out because I was Community Coordinator for Elan Vital in Miami during almost all of 1980, when Jagdeo apparently sexually molested another little girl in Florida. I didn't know Jagdeo was doing anything like that, but it freaks me out if this child was in the Miami community and nobody told me about the Jagdeo problem.

So, that's number one. Maharaji knew about it and Jagdeo continued to tour. I can testify to the fact that Jagdeo was in Miami at different times in 1980, and I am aware of nothing that was done to protect the children he had contact with.

Second, John says that he personally saw Jagdeo living in an Elan Vital Ashram in India recently. So, Jagdeo apparently continued to be 'harbored' even after the recent information came out from Susan and Abi here on EPO.

Plus, it means that Marcia Leitner, in her letter to Susan on behalf of the Elan Vital Board of Directors, was either lying, or she was given false information (was 'set up') by Elan Vital, Maharaji, or whomever to lie, and say that Jagdeo was living in a village some place and hadn't been involved with Elan Vital 'since the 80s.'

This is awfully incriminating of Elan Vital and Maharaji. And what does this say about Glen Whittaker, saying no one could recall any of this? Did he actually ASK Maharaji?

Here is John's conclusion, with which I couldn't agree more:

The Jagdeo affair is a towering example of the corruption that's set into the heart of what I believe to have, once, been a genuine attempt to help the world. That M is so central to Jagdeo's crimes continuing is, alone, reason enough for me to leave. There isn't a rationalization in the world that excuses complicity in raping children. That my friends continue to defend M in this respect seriously stretches my respect for them.

Thank God there are still some people with integrity such that this sort of horrendous crime makes them split that cult.

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 16:59:33 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Request to John B
Message:
John, in light of the above, I would like to suggest that the title to the 'Jagdeo' section of the EPO website be changed back to what it originally was 'Harboring a Pedophile' (either British or American spelling is fine with me.) I would be happy to assist in getting lawyers to defend any suit by Elan Vital/Maharaji if they tried to come after EPO, and, of course, John might be asked to testify, as would, I assume a number of other EV people, both current and former premies, as well. Where is Maria Isabella now? Where is the little girl in Florida, and her mother, who were also Jagdeo's victims?

This is just too important for us not to be on the side of the whole truth on this issue.

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 20:07:13 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: Request to John B
Message:
Joe,

I considered changing it back but decided to wait until John's promised post on the subject, when I planned to combine John's information with a clearer presentation of the whole topic.

Thanks for the offer of support should EV attempt legal action.

John.

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 13:17:23 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Maharaji Cult Attack Websites - Day 6
Message:
It appears only ONE website set up by the Maharaji cult attacking ex-followers of Maharaji remains, from the original SIX that were up a few days ago. The servers have taken down both versions of the 'red' 'It's Right to Hate' websites in the past 24 hours.

By the way, did anybody stop to read how ignorant those sites were? It was impossible to tell whether the premies who did it were trying to pretend the site was IN FAVOR of hate sites or against them. It was amazingly confused and made no sense. It also appeared to be anti-ACLU, but even that was hard to tell. That's the site that tried to transparently associate EPO with Anti-Semitic sites, and such. The servers saw right through it and dropped them after we reported them.

Maybe that mental deterioration comes from reading Maharaji's inane poetry for far too long.

One hate site remains:

http://user.netomia.com/HaltOnLineABuse/

That site names a bunch of us, includes the names of our employers and says we are part of a 'hate' site that has done things like:

Posted and published about Maharaji slanderous allegations, including that Maharaji is an alcoholic amd (sic) has killed a person.

Premie honey, get it together. It's only 'slander' if it isn't true, and you, dear premie, don't even bother to deny that it IS true. So what is the damn point?

I assume this premie is referring to Michael Dettmers (and others) telling us how much alcohol Maharaji drinks (and drank) and that incident in India when Dettmers said Maharaji left the scene of a fatal accident when he was driving and let somebody else take the rap.

Also, what I don't understand is why didn't this premie talk about the other major allegations, like that Maharaji picked up, had sex with, and then dumped, a number of his female devotees? Doesn't this premie think THAT's slanderous?

I can't figure it out.

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 14:14:23 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: Maharaji Cult Attack Websites - Day 6
Message:
Good points, Joe. What I can't figure out is how these sites are utilized. Is it a grape vine sort of thing where premies e-mail each other like 'Can you believe how horrid these ex-premies are? Look what they've done now. And look, Richard Rogers is one of THEM! Well, he always was weird, irreverent and unsurrendered . . . ' The premie grape vine has always been more effective than the official mailings anyway. Premies talk to each other and this will provide more to talk about. And the more they talk, the more the will learn.

As I've said before, the CAC teaser sites are obviously fear-based and put up in hopes of bolstering their shaky belief system. And as many have pointed out, they only generate more interest in what the truth is. So welcome all you newcomers who are here out of curiosity. Try to look past the fliipant comments or dark humor to discover the truth for yourself.

Richard

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 14:54:49 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: They also Backfired
Message:
The return of CAC caused John MacGregor to reveal his identity, thereby increasing exponentially the credibility of the extremely, extremely, damaging things he had to say about Maharaji. Plus, they have done nothing to dissuade the rest of us from speaking out. Indeed, it forced us into a corner. Even if we might be getting bored with being involved in talking about our former cult, CAC FORCED us to maintain a presence, otherwise we are 'giving in to terrorism' or some such thing.
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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 18:21:41 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: I agree
Message:
Even if we might be getting bored with being involved in talking about our former cult, CAC FORCED us to maintain a presence, otherwise we are 'giving in to terrorism' or some such thing.

This also is forcing lawyers, and law enforcement to take more notice. Especially now that MAHA his cowardly crime to mushroom.

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 16:38:05 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: I don't like being threatened either
Message:
and my response is going to be a bit more sophisticated ......
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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 07:28:09 (EST)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: All
Subject: New knowledge technique
Message:
See above link. Check out the other pages on the site.

Yes, I know. I am quite mad.
[ The reverse nectar technique ]

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 09:21:40 (EST)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: You think you're mad sir d
Message:
but when I was consciously pulling away from you know who I perfected the reverse nectar technique because it was the only thing that stopped me from automatically and unconsciously doing nectar what seemed like 24/7.

A couple of months and I actually got my tongue back.
Admittedly it was to the bottom of my mouth not out.

How mad is that that I needed to do it!

See how well it worked at http://www.fatjam.f2s.com/romfordunderground, scroll to the far right picture

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 16:58:33 (EST)
From: berni
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: You must be mad :lol
Message:
..if you think you want to go to one these dens of iniquity and end up looking like that! Even though it would be an improvement :/
But seriously though, I know just what you mean about the nectar technique. I'd almost forgotten how hard it was to get out of the habit.
Dave - that's another site you should send to Graham Norton, really funny if I was rich and able to pursue creative ideas just for the sake of it then making sites like that and
I liek Milk


cheers berni

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 12:40:24 (EST)
From: shocked
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: I heard the new technique was
Message:
an enema every day. Apparently they are all doing it now - all part of the purification process. True story - a premie mentioned it to me and then pretended it was a joke.
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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 13:06:01 (EST)
From: Postie
Email: None
To: shocked
Subject: Simple misunderstanding
Message:
Maybe the The Speaker said 'Go out and get my enemies.'

What they heard was 'Go out and get enemas.'

It just never changes, first those confused Hindu Mahatmas, then the drug-crazed hippies and now health freaks doing sychronized enemas. Then again, not a water bottle bubbles.

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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 00:48:30 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Postie
Subject: Read this !!! Read this !!!!!
Message:
I'm laughing hystericaly ...... Thnks for the laugh ......
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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 19:05:26 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: Postie
Subject: Re: Simple misunderstanding
Message:
Hysterically irreverent!!! Brought to mind the Eddy Murphy bathtub routine.....
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 21:06:57 (EST)
From: Julian
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Gerry, what's this with Bjorn??
Message:
On LG you wrote (post now deleted) that Bjorn has tried to get some ex-premie into trouble by writing to their employer. Why not post this info here on F7? Who did Bjorn try to get into trouble? Was it Marianne?

How can anyone follow a moron who gets his kicks from shooting rabbits?

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 01:50:14 (EST)
From: CW
Email: None
To: Julian
Subject: Rabbits are Vermin
Message:
In Australia rabbits are considered the worst introduced species of all European animals. They have so seriously degraded the Australian landscape that until the 80's Bounties were still paid on their pelts.
It is every landed Australians civic and enviormental duty to shoot the bastards.We also shoot cats, pigs,goats ,donkeys camels, wild dogs etc ,etc. Amaroo is a recognised wild-life refuge and has won awards for the same. If M has been shooting rabbits, believe me , I'll buy him the bullets.God ,you are such a bunch of cheesy old hippies. I find a shotgun and spotlight work best. Any rascally rabbits around your neck's of the woods?
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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 03:17:31 (EST)
From: Nottingham Bunnie
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: 'We also shoot cats, pigs,goats ,donkeys..'
Message:
...........camels, wild dogs etc ,etc

You keep some delightful company, don't you CW? Hope you stay in holy name as you enjoy your evolved pursuits.

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 05:12:12 (EST)
From: Croc Catweasel
Email: None
To: Nottingham Bunnie
Subject: They shoot horses dont they?
Message:
Sure do.Yep I'm a gun toting feral. When I stop of for my morning coffee and the scan of the local paper, it's 'what can I shoot today?'
OK let's do pigs!
I then hop in the fourwheel drive do about 500 clicks and start blazing . You know on a good day it get's close to Nirvana..then there's foxes!! Now foxes. There a whole different ball of wax. Say? You guys over in the old Dart. You love a bit of the ole Fox huntin dont cha?
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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 11:14:36 (EST)
From: Bullseye!
Email: None
To: Croc Catweasel
Subject: Catweasels, too
Message:
Long known as feral and now mostly rabid mongrel marsupial rodent indigenous to Australia's outback, the CACweasel can be readily identified by its tendency to continuously chase it's own tail and eat its own feces. Known to seek company and nourishment at the EPO site this poor creature insists on biting off it's own nose to spite it's face. Best to leave this lonesome amaroonian alone to mate with it's closest relative, the Tasmanian Devil.
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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 14:56:26 (EST)
From: CW
Email: None
To: Bullseye!
Subject: Re: Catweasels, too
Message:
Beware , it's bite is venomous and deadly
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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 18:20:13 (EST)
From: Sommelier and sommelier
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: Eau de crapweasel
Message:
Beware , it's bite is venomous and deadly
.....with a bouquet of citrus and skunk
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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 02:24:04 (EST)
From: Hey Catweasel
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: I bet you are jealous of
Message:
Gary Gerrard who had the honour of having his nose broken by maharaji.

Your Lord does love his sports doesn't he?

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 05:13:23 (EST)
From: CW
Email: None
To: Hey Catweasel
Subject: Oh Really?
Message:
Walked into a door I heard?
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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 07:14:16 (EST)
From: try asking those
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: who were there
Message:
also it was a very common satsang story told manty times.

I also hear that your Lord likes running down little Indian people.

Ask Milky Cole or Ron Jeeves or Paddarthanand(you know the re-resentative of Maharaji and EV who used his position to touch-up females).

Oh yes wasn't Pady spirited away out of Oz.....

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 22:00:46 (EST)
From: Marianne
Email: MarianneDB@aol.com
To: Julian
Subject: Bjorn's libelous emails about me
Message:
Well folks, here's the story. This is what happens when the cult puts false and libelous information on the internet. (Libel is a legal term. It means that someone has falsely accused another, in print, of committing a crime).

The CAC site, and most of its progeny, stated that I am an employee of the San Francisco Public Defender's Office. Most of these sites gave an email link to contact those who run that office, so that cult members, or whomever so desired, could contact the SF Public Defender and complain about me as much as their hearts desired.

When the CAC site came up, I made posts saying that some of the information on the site was false and some of it was defamatory. Well, guess what? I AM NOT AN EMPLOYEE OF THE SAN FRANCISCO PUBLIC DEFENDER'S OFFICE AND NEVER HAVE BEEN! As a result, anyone who complained about me to the lawyers who run that office, and claimed that I had committed some illegal act, would be civilly liable for that email. I suspected that some cult member would be unable to restrain themselves, and I was right.

Bjorn has now sent 3 emails to the San Francisco Public Defender's office complaining about me. In the first one, he accused me of cyberstalking him and of making posts during working hours while employed by the Public Defender. He threatened to sue the public defender's office because I was making posts during work hours.

The Chief Assistant Public Defender wrote to Bjorn after the first email and told him I did not work there. Bjorn wrote back and complained some more, and asked him to disclose where I did work now.

After Gerry posted on Life's Grate (misspelling intended) today criticizing Bjorn for what he'd done, Bjorn wrote the Public Defender's Office again to complain about me.

CAC authors, Elan Vital, Bjorn, all of you -- you are civilly liable for these false criminal accusations of me which have now been spread in the San Francisco legal community. As I have said repeatedly, you will hear from my lawyers.

Marianne

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Date: Sun, Nov 11, 2001 at 15:32:10 (EST)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: It is disgusting and sad that Bjorn
Message:
did this to you. I am truly angry about it. It sucks. I hope you can find some justice.
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Date: Sun, Nov 11, 2001 at 16:47:27 (EST)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Thanks, Susan
Message:
I really appreciate your post.

The funny thing is, I had cut back on my forum involvement considerably and then CAC came around and pulled me back in.

Hope you are doing well.

Marianne

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 16:12:12 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Sick and scary stuff Marianne
Message:
Hey, call me paranoid, but some of these trolls here don't seem like they are quite right, in their mind that is. Why would someone go to all the trouble to hunt you down and send multiple e-mails. Have you ever met this guy?
How far do you think this person will go?
Have other people mentioned on the CAC type sites received this type of harrassement? Anyone?
I don't like what has happened to you and others vis a vis the CAC sites. Not at all.
It also worries me. I know that Jim's address is archived somewhere. I wonder who else has their address and such out there for the world to see. The CAC founders impress me as dire people. And desperate to hang onto their cult and Maharaji. Fanactical and without ethics. They crossed a line. It's VERY worrisome to me. So much so that I'm thinking of changing my posting to an anonymous name.
Do you need anything Marianne? Please take care! And be careful.
I've never met you but I am worried.

Fondly, Tonette

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 16:28:45 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: Re: Sick and scary stuff Marianne
Message:
Yes, the Cacweasels tried to damage my business because the phone number and address and website were published by CAC. They succeeded for a while until we figured out a solution.

Another very nasty incident took place which I can't talk about right now because it is being investigated and because it involves another ex as well but we'll publish the details when it's been resolved.

Some fanatical premies are dangerous and bordering on sociopathy.

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 17:00:06 (EST)
From: Barbara
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Forget sociopathy. Try Criminal.
Message:
Because we don't speak about it much on the forum doesn't mean we're inactive in defending ourselves. The premies who are behind these cyberstalking sites forget that regulatory agencies exist to whom we also could report them for their reprehensible and stunningly hypocritical (let me count the ways) cyber-terrorism. It's not a one way street.
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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 17:07:56 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Barbara
Subject: Yes, Barbara. Also, Marianne and Joe...
Message:
Chuck and I are taking steps to defend ourselves in case it gets worse. The first step is to get a case number from the local cops which is then used by other law enforcement agencies.

Perhaps we need a mini-Lativan night soon for those of us who have been harassed and intimidated by the cult. I loved your ''I'm Spartacus. No, I'm Spartacus'' analogy, Barbara. There is safety in numbers.

Chuck and I are available any Mon or Tue night and on a Fri or Sat the week after Thanksgiving.

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 07:01:37 (EST)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Re: Bjorn's libelous emails about me
Message:
Hi Marianne,

that is just ghastly. I hope that you manage to take some sort of legal action against him. And that one day soon someone in EV is actually made accountable for the way they treat people. All of B's nauseating false piety hides a very nasty person who has directed his anger into a dangerous fundamentalism. Sorry to hear that your life has been been effected as a consequence of your participation here. And we both know why they picked on you. So take no prisoners.

Abi

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 11:51:16 (EST)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Thanks Abi
Message:
Yes, we know why Bjorn did it. The emails he sent are filled with his obsession with you and Jagdeo. It is vile and disgusting.

Thanks so much for your support.

Much love, Marianne

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 12:01:40 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Marianne...
Message:
Hi Marianne,

I just emailed you. I want you to know that I am outraged at what you are being put through by EV/M and the CAC sites.

All I can say is they really don't know you at all...

I fully support you,
Love,
Cynthia

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 12:18:31 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Re: Marianne...
Message:
Marianne,

Does this fool realize that raping children and supporting his Cult leader is not normal in the 'real' world.

Bjorn, and the crazy people just like him, are in for some hell of a reality ride. Hope you can keep your wits about you. I will help you any way I can.

Have a SF Latvian soon. It will do you all good. I wish I wasn't so far away. But another time. I'll be visiting SF area in the late spring.

I used to live in the city as well as Marin and Sonoma counties.

I'll stay in touch via email.

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 02:58:32 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: If you need anything, just ask, Marianne
Message:
I hope you set up a legal fund or allow some else to do so. I'm in. I would like to see Rev Rawat named as a co-defendant for condoning the CAC websites even if by omission in that he did not condemn the first attack and thus allowed the second to occur. At the very least his name should be dragged through the mud that he has inspired.

The first CAC terrorist attack frightened me and damaged my business for a while but the second attack left me cold because I knew that Rev Rawat had finally made his major recent mistake. By not officially condemning the first attack he has condoned the second. It's over for him in the west.

I'm sorry that you have to be the martyr to the cause and will try to ease your ordeal. But they could not have chosen a better and more newsworthy martyr. I can see the headlines now:

CULT LEADER CALLED AS WITNESS BEFORE GRAND JURY

""Prempal Singh Rawat was today called to testify before the San Francisco grand jury in a case involving his cult's use of internet intimidation tactics against a lawyer who once worked on a case related to Jim Jones' Peoples' Temple tragedy.""

And I'm serious. This could result in publicity.

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 05:15:45 (EST)
From: Catweasel
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Attention! Calling all Drama Queen's!!
Message:
You are one big tragedy Pat
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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 07:03:18 (EST)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: Re: Attention! Calling all Drama Queen's!!
Message:
Pat has style, you just have a few second-hand clothes your Ratwat flung your way.
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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 16:24:22 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Thanks, Abi, for your chivalry...
Message:
...in coming to an old drama queen's defense. ;)

But don't you sometimes feel sorry for this poor pathetic little cultweasel. He spends 24 hours a day being a martyr to the cause on the forum and doing service for his massa who will dump him like a dead rabbit when it suits him?

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 19:10:30 (EST)
From: Catweasel
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: Thanks, Abi, for your chivalry...
Message:
No Pat. Remember Rumi? and the berries?There is no organisation. There are no honcho's. There is my life. There is K and there is my beloved master.Nothing else.
Try to be less vindictive Pat. It throws a cloud over your being.
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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 04:33:48 (EST)
From: CW
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: and furthermore
Message:
Actually it was Mira
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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 04:21:21 (EST)
From: Cult Spotter
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: Spiritual advice, from a creepy ghost. (NT)
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 15:00:39 (EST)
From: CW
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Re: Attention! Calling all Drama Queen's!!
Message:
Oh yeah, he sure has style.Like Gollum
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 22:23:03 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Fuckin Bjorn...I knew he was a cacweasel
Message:
Marianne,

I have some quotes from other posters I want to discuss with you.

Please everyone, STOP TALKING TO THESE CACWEASEL VILLAINS.

They are NOT nice people. They have ONE, and ONLY one agenda.

Marianne, please check email in a few minutes.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 19:50:37 (EST)
From: Nogbad the Bad
Email: nige@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: All
Subject: Liverpool Latvian night - Wha-hey..!
Message:
There was Me, Moley, Loafie, Magiclara & Mr Magclara... Glad to report a splendid time was guaranteed - and, indeed, enjoyed to many of enjoyment's natural limits - by one and all.

(Ok, it came close to fisticuffs once or twice, but you know how it is with rotting vegetables..)

Luv you all,
Nige

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 04:50:35 (EST)
From: Loaf who was there
Email: None
To: Nogbad the Bad
Subject: Re: Liverpool Latvian night - Wha-hey..!
Message:
Liverpool latvian nights never end... they just unfold.,, it was so nice to meet magiclara (and Robb)... I have never met such an etherial creature in me life !

What fun !

Fisticuffs ? Only cos Nige is working from an intellectual mindset - and I am trying to think and feel like a premie still... all the better to bridge two worlds.

Jai Sacks of Bananas !

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 12:07:27 (EST)
From: Moley
Email: None
To: Loaf who was there
Subject: Loafie: Liverpool Latvian night - Wha-hey..!
Message:
Hi ... how are you today...me in mad rush now as day gone topsy turvy-split wine all over me lover's laptop whilst we were attemptimg to conduct the Pearl Fishers Duet (in the wee small hours) - perils of Latvian nites. Laptop had near death experience - !! (and us tooo)
Lots of Love Moles xxx - straddling the bridge between 2 worlds - oooch :) Off to Moley and Ratty's place! yakteryersoon
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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 07:17:14 (EST)
From: A friend of Graculus
Email: None
To: Loaf who was there
Subject: Are you the honorary dragon, Loaf?
Message:
'In the lands of the North, where the Black Rocks stand guard against the cold sea, in the dark night that is very long the Men (and Women) of the Northlands sit by their great log fires and they tell a tale...'

… a tale of glass mountains and Ice Dragons. Of the peaceful and honest people who inhabit the Northlands - the Nogs. And of our brave hero, Noggin the Nog, and his good wife, Nooka, daughter of Nan of the Nooks. Not forgetting Graculus, a large green bird from the Hot-water Valley, who is both servant and loyal and trusted friend to Noggin, and Grolliffe, a clerical-grade Ice Dragon and Honorary Treasurer to the Dragon's Friendly Society ….

Would you believe that the treasurer of The Dragon's Friendly Society goes by the name of Loaf (of Liverpool) who describes himself as 'a latter-day honorary dragon'.

Wonder if he's the same Loaf as posts here?

cq, looking forward to the forthcoming shindig of the Northlands Chapter of the Latvian Exes Appreciation Society.

'Oh lully, lully, oh lully my monster,
Sleep my scaly friend,
And fold your horny claws and slumber,
Happy in the end'.

[ Graphic Link ]

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 07:26:26 (EST)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: A friend of Graculus
Subject: Re: Are you the honorary dragon, Loaf?
Message:
It wasnt my idea... i was only following orders ! It was Oliver Postgate who called me an honorary dragon anyway.... its a heavy mantle to wear... I think I am uniquely fleshy among other dragons, of Soup, or Ice... or even Idris

Nice pic of Graculus.

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 07:35:54 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: it IS you!!! and a great honour it must be
Message:
it IS you!!! and a great privilege it must be to have such a noble honorary title bestowed on you - and by the man himself, Oliver (pishticoo) Postgate.

PS, pic of Graculus is copyright smallfilms, all rights reserved, and very naughty of me to 'borrow' it so shamelessly.

Oh, and do check my reply to Nottingham bunny here. And here's to a noggin at Noel, perhaps?

http://www.hotboards.com/plus/plus.mirage?who=gl&id=11139.0556796878

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 07:52:56 (EST)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: I am humbled and honoured.
Message:
Its lovely really. A better link to our site would use frames...

how do you put pic in here ?
[ Page Link ]
[ Graphic Link ]

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 09:11:04 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: so you should be. Now, for the picture posts
Message:
Here's one way of adding a pic to your posts here (which incidentally doesn't require having to set up your own website to store the pictures).

Step 1
go to http://www.alltheweb.com

Step 2
under the long white empty field, find the words 'search for' then click on the word 'pictures'

Step 3
Enter key word, e.g. 'Noggin the Nog' (remembering to tick the 'exact phrase' box if necessary)

Step 4
Click on the pic you want to use.

Step 5
You'll then see, alongside the pic, a description of the file, e.g.

Noggin.jpg (14632 bytes)

Image size: 235x268
File size: 14.3 kB
Format: JPEG
MIME type: image/jpeg
Last Modified: 1999-12-19
Non-Transparent

Links [ Page | Image ]

This image is copyrighted
to its rightful owner(s)

Where it says 'Links', click on the word 'Image'

Step 6
You are now at the site where that pic is stored. All that remains is to copy the address of that page (e.g. http://www.smallfilms.co.uk/noggin/noggin.jpg) and paste it into the field called Image URL when you're writing your post here on the Forum.

Step 7
Make mine a pint.

Cheers

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 10:50:12 (EST)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To:

Subject: Pic test !
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 20:49:17 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Nogbad the Bad
Subject: Glad you guys had a good time :) [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 08:01:56 (EST)
From: magiclara
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: Peg!
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 20:47:07 (EST)
From: Pauline Premie
Email: None
To: Nogbad the Bad
Subject: You F___ing Brits
Message:
You were always more into partying and drinking brew than ever practicing knowledge. No wonder nothing ever got together in the UK, unlike in America, Canada, Australia and the other English-speaking parts of Maharaji's world. You are very unsynchronized and it isn't funny. This is very serious. Plus you have rotten teeth. No wonder Maharaji has been forced to live in a delapidated house in Malibu. At least there, we have lots of together PWKs, like Valario Pascotto, Jean Marie Bonthos, Mary Holle, David Smith, Yoram Weiss, and David Andersen.

No wonder Elan Vital is falling apart while you party on your isolated island.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 21:16:24 (EST)
From: Moley
Email: None
To: Pauline Premie
Subject: Re: You F___ing Brits
Message:
Hey - Pauline - wot the F**k you on about - we are totally synchronised with our Master - pissed as farts [Nige: speak for yourself, oh my beloved..] and incapable of finding a conveniemt orifice into which to place our digits. jai cat shit ananda.
PS actually we are totally rational and capable of piloting a gulfstream jet - honest, hicup oops where's me mala,
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 21:47:04 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: Moley
Subject: Pauline and Moley
Message:
ROTFLMAO!!!

Oh, my gosh, a much needed laugh today! Please, don't stop. More More More!!!

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 22:17:19 (EST)
From: Moley
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: okie-dokie Vickey
Message:
Wot is ROTFLMAO? (get the last bit - (Jagdeo)Laughed My Arse Off)

Feel a premie poem coming on...

Oh, this Life
I am a little flower
Blooming for an hour (Well, fuck it rhymes - wot more do you want)
I am a little blossom
(Oh that would rhyme with 'possum' but I am avoiding the obvious Amaroo connection)
In this Life
Gratitude
Is all
And I am
I am
Blessed by His (note the capital 'H') effervescent-
Ness (gee - this rhyming lark is where it's at)
Oh the rising sun
Blowing in the wind
Is a candle in the Wind
Never Knowing where the wind blows
Like my little boat
Oh Lord
I am a rudder without an oar
(or is that ' an oar without a rudder')
I am a little oat (oops I mean 'boat')
I can't tell which way the wind
Is blowing
But I can adjust my rudder
(Apparently)
I'm diving down into the Ocean - I can't see anything
But That's cos the sand is all stirred up
And... (Oh Shit- I can'r bloody see anything)

[Fuck - give me some drugs for Chrissake]

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 23:09:28 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Moley
Subject: Great poem Moley
Message:
How many sheets to the wind is your boat's sail. Glad to see you still having fun.
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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 03:19:00 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: Moley has her main sheet up, Deborah:)
Message:
And rudder firmly in hand sailing over the ocean of maya. Just as well she didn't remember to breathe all the time - especially under water.

You're a hoot and a half, Moley.

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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 12:30:18 (EST)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Moley is often 3 sheets to the wind [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 12:11:07 (EST)
From: Moley
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Moley has her main sheet up, LOL :) xx
Message:
What keeps me here is the amazement at the furballs you are willing to swallow. EG: J McG was never close like he describes. Only ever by accident. He has been bitter about not being accepted in to 'the gang' (his vision)for most of the nineties. He has not been close to M in all that time. Good fiction but only hearsay.
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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 10:17:05 (EST)
From: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: None
To: Repost of Catweasel
Subject: Re: re; John McGregor
Message:
Let's face it; even if Marolyn decided to leave M and posted here exposing everything M has done, CW would post the claim that she was never really close and just wanted to be. Heck, if M suddenly discovered his conscience and repented of all the evil he and Elan Vital have done, CW would post that M was never really close and was a wannabe.
CW's post regarding John McGregor is just his usual knee-jerk reaction.
Mickey who was never really close and didn't even want to be the Pharisee
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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 19:46:09 (EST)
From: CW
Email: None
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: Re: re; John McGregor
Message:
Mickey that just isn't true. John though is another matter.I'm not questioning him as a person.He is a very nice cynical guy.I respect cynism.But he cannot say the things he said with any authority
For instance , he spent nearly all of his time in Sept 2000 at the Airport greeting the guests. Anything he spouts about that time is gossip made to sound legitimate via his undoubted writing style(a little verbose John).
The Australian population just elected the same scrawny little turkey back to office on the basis of Khaki and Race. The little Turd managed to convince the rabid Right to vote him, 'little Johnny'. He did this by attacking 'Illegal refugee's' and 'terrorists' thus convincing the One Nation lunatic's(Far,far right- Enoch Powell - like) that they did not need to register a protest vote against the conservative parties. He decimated One Nation and picked off enough votes to comfortably get himself , the little prick , over the line.
Point of the story? HE TOLD THEM WHAT THEY WANTED TO HEAR.He lied about refugees setting fire to their boat. He lied about refugees threatening to drown their children.He fought with the Asiatic hordes of Indonesia. He act's 'like a real white man'
Exactly what societies xenophobic fringe love to hear and see.
John? He tell's you what you want to hear. He does his homework, his research and then he regurgitates your beliefs in a comfortable refined format.You know Mickey, John's can be like that!
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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 20:31:37 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: God, I wish you could see yourself!
Message:
Mickey that just isn't true. John though is another matter.I'm not questioning him as a person.He is a very nice cynical guy.I respect cynism.But he cannot say the things he said with any authority
For instance , he spent nearly all of his time in Sept 2000 at the Airport greeting the guests. Anything he spouts about that time is gossip made to sound legitimate via his undoubted writing style(a little verbose John).
The Australian population just elected the same scrawny little turkey back to office on the basis of Khaki and Race. The little Turd managed to convince the rabid Right to vote him, 'little Johnny'. He did this by attacking 'Illegal refugee's' and 'terrorists' thus convincing the One Nation lunatic's(Far,far right- Enoch Powell - like) that they did not need to register a protest vote against the conservative parties. He decimated One Nation and picked off enough votes to comfortably get himself , the little prick , over the line.
Point of the story? HE TOLD THEM WHAT THEY WANTED TO HEAR.He lied about refugees setting fire to their boat. He lied about refugees threatening to drown their children.He fought with the Asiatic hordes of Indonesia. He act's 'like a real white man'
Exactly what societies xenophobic fringe love to hear and see.
John? He tell's you what you want to hear. He does his homework, his research and then he regurgitates your beliefs in a comfortable refined format.You know Mickey, John's can be like that!


---

You're astoundingly ineffectual, Cat. I've heard of shooting blanks before but what you do is even worse. You just hold the gun up in the air and say 'bang'. Worthless. Absolutely worthless.

As everyone's always said, if you want to dispute something you have to put your cards on the table. What specifically is John wrong about? Spell it out properly, supporting evidence and all, or shut up.

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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 20:54:51 (EST)
From: E.B. White
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: A water gun, at that...
Message:
Time for Cat to go to the vet. His coat's getting a bit matted. His grammar and punctuation (or the lack thereof) are a sure indication he's got worms. Content is nil, as usual.
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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 05:52:47 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Repost of Catweasel
Subject: Is this the best you can do Cat?
Message:
It's pathetic.

So, you don't dispute any of John's claims then?

You have lots in common with the German guards defending Hitler's bunker against the Russians, 'Waiting for the Third Army to break through from the West'.

It's all over Cat. Luckily so many passengers left already there's plenty of room in the lifeboats.

Pack it in and go home mate. It's finished.

Anthski Ginski, lovechild of Mother Theresa and Joseph Stalin.

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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 08:56:01 (EST)
From: CW
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: You should know by now..
Message:
I am not going to bite.
Anthony, I could do very well.But what would be the point.You are all believing what you want, especially you. Choose to think it's over if you wish. It's really irrelevant to most of us who actually enjoy it all.You can be such a sad old fuck............Pathos is your middle name.
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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 09:34:37 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: Yawn.
Message:
I am not going to bite.
Anthony, I could do very well.But what would be the point.You are all believing what you want, especially you. Choose to think it's over if you wish. It's really irrelevant to most of us who actually enjoy it all.You can be such a sad old fuck............Pathos is your middle name.


---

sorry, I missed that, were you going to say something. Zzzzzzz.

anth the wake me up when the footballs on.

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 21:05:40 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Repost of Catweasel
Subject: Debunking nonsense [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 11:42:38 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Great image Pat:C) [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 23:05:19 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: Moley
Subject: ROTF...=rolling on the floor (nt)
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 20:01:24 (EST)
From: mags
Email: None
To: Nogbad the Bad
Subject: Re: Liverpool Latvian night - Wha-hey..!
Message:
I an known as magiclara but apparently that gives the impression of an ethereal being and the latvians who were there know this is not so. What's in a name eh. Yes a marvelous Latvian experience lets have more. What a good do.
love Mags
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 20:09:09 (EST)
From: Moley
Email: None
To: mags
Subject: re: Magiclara's being
Message:
Yes, I can confirm that Mags is not, I repeat not, an ethereal being. Au contraire - she is a corporeal heing par excellence
xxxxx Moldy-rotting-vegetable
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 20:11:52 (EST)
From: magiclara/mags
Email: None
To: Moley
Subject: Re: re: Magiclara's being
Message:
moley what is a heing? Anyway if it hadn't been for m we wouldn't have just had such a marv night had you thought of that? Sobering eh?
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 20:41:01 (EST)
From: Nigel
Email: nige@redcrow.demon,co.uk
To: magiclara/mags
Subject: Hmm...
Message:
Without M, I reckon we all might have been doing things a zillion times more interesting all these years, and would have started doing them a decade or two sooner.

But I reckon your real question, Mags, is should be: would we have had such a great time enjoying an excellent restaurant and pub meet (faniliar to non-cultists the world over) without ever having heard of M?

Had it happened - of course. That it didn't happen was just bad luck. But even better luck that it has happened now...

x Nige

BTW - Mags, Rob & Loaf - gotta meet up soon again.

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 04:44:33 (EST)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Re: Hmm...
Message:
I have to say that Maharaji has made my life more interesting.. not less.

I wouldnt have missed it for the world. I have loved being a jet-set programme hopper... it was fab.

Every dog has his day.

So long and thanks for all the fish..

Loaf

PS I can confirm that Magiclara is about as etherial as a brick shithouse. Shes lovely !!!!!

Nice to meet you Rob too... I have to ask the question.. How are we going to handle the fall out when people like Robb start exiting in huge numbers ??

It took 4 of us to co-ordinate him last night...

Think of the Paperwork !!!!

Love to all

Loafie

xxx

PS I sent you a Huuuuuuuge 10 minute download email anger/desire/attachment Nige...

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 20:23:52 (EST)
From: Moley
Email: None
To: magiclara/mags
Subject: Re: wot is a being or heing
Message:
Nige is going to reply to this below (or above) sounds biblical to me, all that 'above and below' crap- for which I take absolutely no responsibility... please excuse grammatical errors = am having trauma as I have apparently eaten all Nige's peanuts xxxx J-excuse , I am only a girlie
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 19:58:50 (EST)
From: Noggin the Nog
Email: moldy_warp@hotmail.com
To: Nogbad the Bad
Subject: Northlands Latvian Nite to come soon
Message:
Yes we had a jolly wacking time - and me and Magic managed to retain our feminine decorum at all times - despite extreme provocation!
Furthermore we are going to have a mega-Latvian nite in the Northlands soon- Hamzen and Dermot and Anth and Pat D.and Nick and Jethro and Joy and anyone else I have temporally forgotten - where are you...
Love Moles
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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 11:31:01 (EST)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Noggin the Nog
Subject: I miss the Brits!
Message:
It sounds like you all had a fabulous time! Hung over today, anyone? Wish I could've been there.

Love, Marianne

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 11:55:08 (EST)
From: magiclara
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Re: I miss the Brits!
Message:
Hi Marianne
Yes I must admit to a bit of a head today. I am thinking of dropping the magi from my name due to the shocking discovery that it makes people think that I am floaty and etherel. I am sorry to hear of your troubles with the scum. I hope we will be able to share a latvian some time. I have met four and half exes now and all are great. Bye for now. Magiclara, Clara, Mags, Clarence Clear.(Suffering an identity crisis)
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 19:58:13 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Nogbad the Bad
Subject: OOOOOOOOh another cell meeting, Aye????
Message:
Well, we yanks ain't slackers in that department, either.

In a little known, clandestine meeting at my house the day before Hallow Eve, myself and two as yet to be named ex-premie miscreants got together to plot the Filament's demise in the great Pacific Northwest. That is, after we turned down the guitar amps and popped the caps on some Full Sail Ale.

Of course a full report is available to vetted, X-rated premies via Fouth Class (mail that is.)

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 20:03:09 (EST)
From: Moley
Email: moldy_warp@hotmail.com
To: gerry
Subject: Gerry-plotting the Filament's demise
Message:
yep - us tooo ... email me for further details

And f**k off EV monitor

xxx

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 20:05:21 (EST)
From: mags
Email: None
To: Moley
Subject: Re: Gerry-plotting the Filament's demise
Message:
Oh yes
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 20:11:08 (EST)
From: Moley
Email: None
To: mags
Subject: Re: Gerry-plotting the Filament's demise
Message:
oh yes, Oh yes...
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 21:02:13 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Moley
Subject: Well, I'm green with envy ;)
Message:
Maybe we need to do another SF Pigeon Fanciers' night. I'm definitely in the mood for some plotting. Also we need to spend the $300,000 dollars that we raised at the last SF Pigeon Fanciers' night. :)
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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 01:25:51 (EST)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Yes, Pat darling
Message:
I was just thinking the same thing.

love me

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 11:33:09 (EST)
From: Marianne
Email: MarianneDB@aol.com
To: Disculta
Subject: Count me in
Message:
Who's going to do the organizing?
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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 13:12:49 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: pdconlon@hotmail.com
To: Marianne
Subject: Mraianne, let me talk to the boys
Message:
I was thinking of a potluck at Joubert's with paper plates. That way we don't have to do any work but the space is good. The fireplace is cosy in winter and the booze is wholesale. Out of towners can bring some Chinese take-out. Set it up buffet style.

Again it will have to coincide with a weekend that we're closed otherwise we lose too much business on a Sat night. If anyone wants to do it on a Mon or Tues, then it could be anytime. The next time that we're closed will be just after Thanksgiving and again in March.

Anyone interested can email me. You don't have to do any work either, Marianne. Just bring some of that fantastic guacamole that we had at your house for dinner last time.

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 17:18:05 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: Mraianne, let me talk to the boys
Message:
Ya hoooooey!!!! Count me in!
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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 19:37:15 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: Will do, Vicki. We'll have some fun. [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 03:23:48 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: It must be ESPmail. I knew you'd be first
Message:
....to agree. Let's do it. I think we need a party after all the fanatical cultist terrorist attacks (CAC and WTC) and the blues that have descended on America the beautiful for the past two months.
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 21:52:38 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Green with envy
Message:
Maybe the possiblity exists for having live satellite Latvian hookups world wide, ya know, interactive!
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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 03:31:01 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: We'll have an SF Latvian night
Message:
I've floated the idea that we do one sometime this winter in SF. In June we had one in SF and 23 exes came from California. It was exhilirating.

If you ever wondered where all the warm and loving people went and why the cult was so cold and phony you'll understand as soon as you meet other exes. All the old love is there.

Anyway we need to gather around Marianne to give her our moral support.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 21:20:46 (EST)
From: Moley
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: Well, I'm green with envy ;)
Message:
yes - plotting ,,, Email me babe
---
and I've got a pic of me doggy for you - she is very cute... but seriously re: plotting - have fab idea - for Email only ....
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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 03:33:50 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Moley
Subject: I will email you. Have fun plotting:) [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 12:09:41 (EST)
From: Moley
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Pat :)
Message:
In mad rush.... see me post to Loafie up above somewhere...
Will Email yer back Sunday at latest ****xxx
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 17:57:53 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: All
Subject: EPO Forum Intro/Recent Exes
Message:
I've rewritten the forum introduction page on EPO following discussions about wavering premies posting here for the first time and the discussions about the Recent Exes forum here a few weeks ago.

I've tried to encourage new posters to read more of EPO before posting here, to introduce themselves a little, and to expect their ideas to be challenged.

Regarding Recent Exes, I promised Jim that I would review how EPO should advertise RE. I have been accepted as a member and I am happy that RE performs a valuable service, and deserves to be promoted on EPO.

I understand Jim's concerns that someone such as Mike Dettmers would post on RE and never be read by the wider premie/ex-premie community, but there is no evidence that that has, or would, happen. And as a member, if I read something that I believe deserves a wider audience, I will certainly encourage the poster to post it on F7 or allow it to be featured on EPO.

There is nothing mysterious happening on RE, just some ex-premies who feel comfortable with each other discussing whatever they wish to discuss.

John.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 21:49:42 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Re: EPO Forum Intro/Recent Exes
Message:
John,

What's the 'valuable service' Recent Ex's provides? And why does it deserve to be promoted on EPO?

Assuming that the online ex-premie community continues to grow, I still worry about a whole lot of people starting to join that select, private group. They'll all be able to read the regular forum, of course, although none of the regulars here can do the same there. I just don't like it.

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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 09:31:13 (EST)
From: Mike Finch
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: A compromise
Message:
Assuming that the online ex-premie community continues to grow, I still worry about a whole lot of people starting to join that select, private group. They'll all be able to read the regular forum, of course, although none of the regulars here can do the same there. I just don't like it.

This suggestion has been made before, but I think it would answser most of your concerns, Jim, and also most of the concerns of exes or would-be exes: Have a forum which is password-protected to post, but open to be read by anyone.

I know there would still be a bunch of issues (how is it determined who gets a password to post ? How could the FA distinguish a genuine recent ex, who has no well known-ex to vouch for him/her, from a shit-stirrer ?), but if there is going to be a Forum that really caters to exiting premies, has a large audience, and is focused and credible, I think it will need to be something like that.

-- Mike

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 04:46:04 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: EPO Forum Intro/Recent Exes
Message:
Jim,

RE provides an environment where exes can post without the fear of being attacked. Whether that fear is justifed or not, it exists, and I think the alternative for many posters is rather than face their fear they do not post at all. As it is, most of the posters on RE also post here, and new posters on RE have posted here after they feel more at home posting on a forum.

As the exes community grows, more forums will be required, not trying to restrict posters to one forum. I cannot keep up with the current forums, and I admit to being a forum junkie, so if everyone posted here it would be impossible to follow.

Regarding you not liking people talking without you being able to hear, well you'd better get used to it as it happens all the time. You yourself are involved in private exes' email discussion groups that most posters here are excluded from. Do you think that's wrong? RE itself started out as a private email discussion group.

I considered moving the reference to RE from the forum introduction page on EPO to the forums section of the Links page, but on reflection, I decided to encourage new people to post on F7 but also inform them of an alternative.

Which leads to the most difficult issue, which is the inevitability of rejection of some RE applicants. The RE FAs have admitted they didn't handle Steve's rejection as well as they could, but rejection is always going to hurt regardless of how it's expressed. Once the decision has been made, all the FAs can do is try to inform the applicant as tactfully as possible.

John.

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 12:19:01 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Bad analogy, John
Message:
You yourself are involved in private exes' email discussion groups that most posters here are excluded from. Do you think that's wrong? RE itself started out as a private email discussion group.

For one thing, that's wrong factually. I'm not involved in any such email discussion group. I don't know what you're talking about unless it's being included in the odd bulk email. Hardly a 'group' though, for these purposes.

But anyway, even if I was, so what? I'd hardly expect EPO to advertise it. That's what 'private' is all about, isn't it?

The way I see it, either RE will relax a bit and be more inclusive so that yes, the Janets and Steves of the world aren't rejected because they're a little too this or a little too that OR it will continue to be a tad precious in its self-image and membership criteria. Both are problems.

If RE does let in more and more people, assuming an ongoing trickle if not flood of new exes, then there really will be this weird scenario where half of us meet in this other forum that's kept secret from the other half of us.

Alternatively, if RE doesn't relax its membership criteria, there's the continued spectre of a clubby private room endorsed by EPO but cut off from all the other exes.

The difficulty, I think, is that there are a couple of different problems. On the one hand, some people don't want to post on the same forum as premies. They don't want to be harrassed or they don't want to see exes and premies argue. That's one concern. Another might be that they don't want to post anonymously and don't want to post on a forum where others post anonymously either. A third issue is 'flaming'. Some people want to post in an atmosphere where everyone's committed to politeness even to the extent that debates are self-censored, even cancelled, when they heat up too much. And of course everyone has their own idea of what 'too much' is. That's a whole different issue itself. Some people want to post in a forum where they can rest assured that their spiritual beliefs won't be challenged no matter what. And, oh yeah, I forgot, there's also this whole separate issue about having a forum that actually caters to specific concerns that actual recent exes might have as they leave the cult. Almost forgot that one.

What I think is wrong is that this one Recent Ex forum purports to offer a solution for all those concerns. There's too much bundled up together in the notion of RE as it stands today.

For instance, a lot of exes might want to enjoy a premie-free forum from time-to-time. Even the most argumentative among us might also want to get away from creeps like Catweasel and SC. That's not to say that they want to commit to not debating about beliefs, spiritual or otherwise though. (I can just imagine some RE person reading this and thinking 'Shut up, Jim, you don't know the first thing of what really goes on on RE. It's not like that at all.' Well, forgive me if I've picked up the wrong impression over time. It is a secret forum, after all, so I might not quite appreciate the current tone there. Mind you, that's all part of the problem as I see it. I now have John Brauns coming to tell me what RE is -- 'just some ex-premies who feel comfortable with each other discussing whatever they wish to discuss.' -- pretty vague, John, and not at all my understanding of the terms of membership or discussion.)

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 20:26:19 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: It's true, you have the wrong impression
Message:
(I can just imagine some RE person reading this and thinking 'Shut up, Jim, you don't know the first thing of what really goes on on RE. It's not like that at all.' Well, forgive me if I've picked up the wrong impression over time. It is a secret forum, after all, so I might not quite appreciate the current tone there. Mind you, that's all part of the problem as I see it. I now have John Brauns coming to tell me what RE is -- 'just some ex-premies who feel comfortable with each other discussing whatever they wish to discuss.' -- pretty vague, John, and not at all my understanding of the terms of membership or discussion.)

Jim, RE is there and it's part of that that vast body of information that is outside your reach. It's nothing mysterious, but it fulfils its purpose of allowing people to post without the fear of being attacked. It will always be flawed because the membership criteria are down to the judgement of current FAs and members and hence must be flawed.

Look all we're arguing about is whether RE should be mentioned on EPO as a footnote, or given a little prominence. Its existence is beyond your control.

John.

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 22:26:28 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Quit insulting me, John
Message:
Cut that patronizing tone, John. Who are you playing to? Your new fellow RE members? I think I've raised enough legitimate issues that, if they're not pressing now, will be if the cult exodus accelerates.

Beyond that, yeah, I'm not afraid to say that I'm offended by the existence of a separate forum that EPO advertises which is like a chamber behind a one-way mirror looking onto this forum. Like I said, EPO doesn't advertise anyone's private email rings, if there even are such things. (Not just private but secret -- there's a difference, you know.)

But whatever. You're the boss. This forum, as you suggest, is for people who like to be attacked. And I guess this is just another example of me attacking or something. Yeah right.

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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 16:34:30 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Yes, you have raised legitimate issues....
Message:
.....and I am attempting to address them.

I'll continue, starting with this comment of yours:-

This forum, as you suggest, is for people who like to be attacked.

I never suggested any such thing. I stated the fact (do you deny it's a fact?) that some people are reluctant to post here because of a fear of being attacked whether that fear is justified or not. I was afraid to post here before I did, and when I posted for the first time I was attacked. Mildly I accept, but it hurt. My first post was responding to someone talking about squeezing eyeballs where I attempted to correct the poster by describing the light technique as currently taught. The big thing for me was that I was breaking my vow of not revealing the techniques, a very important taboo for an exiting premie. Someone, I can't remember who, but I don't think it was you, told me I didn't understand the purpose of the forum. OK, I got through that and I am still here, but there are people who don't even get to taking that risk of posting. If RE can help those people, then it has value.

The fact is that most exes never post here nor on RE. They read EPO, or come to their own conclusions, and get on with their lives. Many exes write to me as webmaster to thank me (although I always tell them that others deserve the thanks) but never post.

Another fact is that apart from two or three occasional posters, all of the current RE posters have posted on this forum regularly. So your fear of newcomers going to RE and never coming here has little basis in fact.

And as I said before, if any new (or old) ex posts something on RE that really deserves to be read by a larger audience, then I will encourage tham to post here.

I have rewritten the forum intro page on EPO to encourage new people to post here, even if they are afraid of doing so, but have left the door open if they don't want to. I think that's the right thing to do.

And, Jim, if the problems you imagine actually manifest, then I'll remove all reference to RE on EPO.

So, does this satisfy you?

John.

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 15:17:11 (EST)
From: XYZ
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Bad analogy, John
Message:
Gotta all march to the same drum in the ex-premie cult, right Jim?? Better not let people decide what they want to do for themselves, that might be dangerous....
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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 19:41:03 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: XYZ
Subject: What a foolish comment!
Message:
First, do I know you? Or is it too 'cultish' to want to know if it's one of your 'friends' behind that mask spitting at you? Or is even that question too something-or-other?

Anyway, you most certainly missed my point(s). But then I guess someone who thinks these kind of anonymous potshots are okay would do that.

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 20:35:43 (EST)
From: XYZ
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: What a foolish comment!
Message:
First, do I know you?


---

Why does it matter if you know me? Are you running a cult here, or is it a social club?

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 22:29:19 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: XYZ
Subject: Re: What a foolish comment!
Message:
First, do I know you?


---

Why does it matter if you know me? Are you running a cult here, or is it a social club?


---

It matters because anonymity like this is cowardly and unprincipled. By the way, your use of the word 'cult' is hilarious. Oh sorry, I guess my saying that is a cult-like!

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 22:47:59 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Infract the forum is a social club
Message:
The people here are dedicated to social responsibilty and morality unlike Rawat's cultweasels.
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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 15:11:05 (EST)
From: XYZ
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Bad argument Jim
Message:
If RE does let in more and more people, assuming an ongoing trickle if not flood of new exes, then there really will be this weird scenario where half of us meet in this other forum that's kept secret from the other half of us.

Alternatively, if RE doesn't relax its membership criteria, there's the continued spectre of a clubby private room endorsed by EPO but cut off from all the other exes.

The difficulty, I think, is that there are a couple of different problems. On the one hand, some people don't want to post on the same forum as premies. They don't want to be harrassed or they don't want to see exes and premies argue. That's one concern. Another might be that they don't want to post anonymously and don't want to post on a forum where others post anonymously either. A third issue is 'flaming'. Some people want to post in an atmosphere where everyone's committed to politeness even to the extent that debates are self-censored, even cancelled, when they heat up too much. And of course everyone has their own idea of what 'too much' is. That's a whole different issue itself. Some people want to post in a forum where they can rest assured that their spiritual beliefs won't be challenged no matter what. And, oh yeah, I forgot, there's also this whole separate issue about having a forum that actually caters to specific concerns that actual recent exes might have as they leave the cult. Almost forgot that one.

What I think is wrong is that this one Recent Ex forum purports to offer a solution for all those concerns. There's too much bundled up together in the notion of RE as it stands today.

For instance, a lot of exes might want to enjoy a premie-free forum from time-to-time. Even the most argumentative among us might also want to get away from creeps like Catweasel and SC. That's not to say that they want to commit to not debating about beliefs, spiritual or otherwise though. (I can just imagine some RE person reading this and thinking 'Shut up, Jim, you don't know the first thing of what really goes on on RE. It's not like that at all.' Well, forgive me if I've picked up the wrong impression over time. It is a secret forum, after all, so I might not quite appreciate the current tone there. Mind you, that's all part of the problem as I see it. I now have John Brauns coming to tell me what RE is -- 'just some ex-premies who feel comfortable with each other discussing whatever they wish to discuss.' -- pretty vague, John, and not at all my understanding of the terms of membership or discussion.)


---

Jeesh Jim, you guys sound like you're in a cult to me -- membership, us versus them. What you're really complaining about is that there's something going on that you're not the center of attraction of. Give it up, if you please.

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 19:42:34 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: XYZ
Subject: Again, sheer stupidity
Message:
If RE does let in more and more people, assuming an ongoing trickle if not flood of new exes, then there really will be this weird scenario where half of us meet in this other forum that's kept secret from the other half of us.

Alternatively, if RE doesn't relax its membership criteria, there's the continued spectre of a clubby private room endorsed by EPO but cut off from all the other exes.

The difficulty, I think, is that there are a couple of different problems. On the one hand, some people don't want to post on the same forum as premies. They don't want to be harrassed or they don't want to see exes and premies argue. That's one concern. Another might be that they don't want to post anonymously and don't want to post on a forum where others post anonymously either. A third issue is 'flaming'. Some people want to post in an atmosphere where everyone's committed to politeness even to the extent that debates are self-censored, even cancelled, when they heat up too much. And of course everyone has their own idea of what 'too much' is. That's a whole different issue itself. Some people want to post in a forum where they can rest assured that their spiritual beliefs won't be challenged no matter what. And, oh yeah, I forgot, there's also this whole separate issue about having a forum that actually caters to specific concerns that actual recent exes might have as they leave the cult. Almost forgot that one.

What I think is wrong is that this one Recent Ex forum purports to offer a solution for all those concerns. There's too much bundled up together in the notion of RE as it stands today.

For instance, a lot of exes might want to enjoy a premie-free forum from time-to-time. Even the most argumentative among us might also want to get away from creeps like Catweasel and SC. That's not to say that they want to commit to not debating about beliefs, spiritual or otherwise though. (I can just imagine some RE person reading this and thinking 'Shut up, Jim, you don't know the first thing of what really goes on on RE. It's not like that at all.' Well, forgive me if I've picked up the wrong impression over time. It is a secret forum, after all, so I might not quite appreciate the current tone there. Mind you, that's all part of the problem as I see it. I now have John Brauns coming to tell me what RE is -- 'just some ex-premies who feel comfortable with each other discussing whatever they wish to discuss.' -- pretty vague, John, and not at all my understanding of the terms of membership or discussion.)


---

Jeesh Jim, you guys sound like you're in a cult to me -- membership, us versus them. What you're really complaining about is that there's something going on that you're not the center of attraction of. Give it up, if you please.


---

What I'm 'really complaining about' are all the points I made which you've avoided. What are you really complaining about? The weather?

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 20:29:30 (EST)
From: XYZ
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Name Calling?
Message:
If RE does let in more and more people, assuming an ongoing trickle if not flood of new exes, then there really will be this weird scenario where half of us meet in this other forum that's kept secret from the other half of us.

Alternatively, if RE doesn't relax its membership criteria, there's the continued spectre of a clubby private room endorsed by EPO but cut off from all the other exes.


---

Jeesh Jim, you guys sound like you're in a cult to me -- membership, us versus them. What you're really complaining about is that there's something going on that you're not the center of attraction of. Give it up, if you please.


---

What I'm 'really complaining about' are all the points I made which
you've avoided. What are you really complaining about? The weather?


---

The basic premise of your argument is that you are better suited to determine their needs than they are. You are not a recent ex, so leave it be man. This is cult thinking -- more proof that you really are a cult of ex's. Really quite funny you can't see that.

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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 03:55:22 (EST)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: XYZ
Subject: that's your assumption!
Message:
The basic premise of your argument is that you are better suited to determine their needs than they are.

It's the organisational dynamics that are of concern, I think Jim's been completely clear about that. Better would be a password protected forum that everyone can read, but that only recent exes could post on.

There may be an air of confidentiality (for that would be the only difference) in the present arrangements for recent exes, but it is illusory. It would be better to dispense with that maya, do away with the apparent secrecy and be more open, while accepting contributions only from members.

JohnT
- never a premie

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Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 04:30:24 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: JohnT
Subject: Cultists making assumptions
Message:
I don't have any say in RE so I won't venture to agree or disagree with your suggestion. It is none of my business.

But have you noticed that one of the most irritating quirks of cult-think is the tendency to make assumptions about other peoples' motives and meanings? They never engage in conversation or consult you on the validity of their speculations but immediately presume to know what you are thinking.

I haven't thought this thing through completely and would appreciate some feedback. It's just that there is a certain irritating presumptuous air about cultists; at once insulting, patronizing and usually incoherently solipsistic.

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 22:16:54 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: XYZ
Subject: Re: Name Calling?
Message:
If RE does let in more and more people, assuming an ongoing trickle if not flood of new exes, then there really will be this weird scenario where half of us meet in this other forum that's kept secret from the other half of us.

Alternatively, if RE doesn't relax its membership criteria, there's the continued spectre of a clubby private room endorsed by EPO but cut off from all the other exes.


---

Jeesh Jim, you guys sound like you're in a cult to me -- membership, us versus them. What you're really complaining about is that there's something going on that you're not the center of attraction of. Give it up, if you please.


---

What I'm 'really complaining about' are all the points I made which
you've avoided. What are you really complaining about? The weather?


---

The basic premise of your argument is that you are better suited to determine their needs than they are. You are not a recent ex, so leave it be man. This is cult thinking -- more proof that you really are a cult of ex's. Really quite funny you can't see that.


---

First, you're avoiding everything I say. It's impossible to talk with anyone who acts the way you are. No wonder you don't have the guts to say who you are.

Second, your 'argument' is absurd. I'm not saying that I know what recent exes needs are better than they do. But even if I did, that would hardly amount to 'cult thinking'. That's simply laughable.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 22:41:06 (EST)
From: Moley
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: What about a 3rd Forum?
Message:
Specifically for exes only - but open - i.e. no password??? A place where 'vulnerable' new exes could 'cut their teeth' ??? And old -timers could help them along...
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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 23:49:15 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Moley
Subject: Re: What about a 3rd Forum??????????
Message:
Moley,

One problem regarding "NO passwords" here is that we have trolls whose mission is to be distruptive and debunk anything of value. Their energy is something nobody cutting their teeth should have to encounter.

That's one reason why I think RE is good. Perhaps, as a compromise RE should lax their restrictions to which exes can read. That way, everyone is happy. But it seems that RE doesn't want the new exes to feel challenged beyond their means, which I understand. So-what to do?

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 20:50:13 (EST)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Hmm..
Message:
John - I understand your points about RE providing a valuable service to its members, I guess. But I am not sure, without some kind of of upfront criteria about what is required of would-be members (aspirants?), whether RE should be advertised on EPO as a generic haven for recent exes.

Maybe a change of name would be appropriate before you restore the link. Either that or a clear definition regarding terms of membership over there. Rejection on grounds unspecified is the last thing any person leaving a cult needs, IMO.

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Date: Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 04:52:34 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Re: Hmm..
Message:
Nigel,

I think this is something the RE FAs should raise with new candidates when they apply, but I agree the issue of rejection is the most difficult for the FAs there to deal with.

John.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 08, 2001 at 19:03:11 (EST)
From: peg
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Thanks for all your work John [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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