Ex-Premie Forum 7 Archive
From: Nov 13, 2001 To: Nov 18, 2001 Page: 2 of: 5


Jim -:- ***PleaseConsiderThis.com folds*** -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 20:34:30 (EST)
__ Brian Smith -:- Where is Red Butler? -:- Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 14:29:33 (EST)
__ Francesca :o) -:- Joe and Jim, it was your critical analyses -:- Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 13:44:19 (EST)
__ __ Joe -:- Very true, Francesca -:- Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 16:18:27 (EST)
__ __ __ Brian Smith -:- Piercing Logic Joe -:- Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 21:47:16 (EST)
__ The Master -:- ??????? -:- Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 12:26:30 (EST)
__ __ Joe -:- 'Master' is in 'Perfect' is Out -:- Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 16:59:53 (EST)
__ __ __ Brian Smith -:- Constantly meditate and remember holy name -:- Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 02:39:57 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Jethro -:- Re: Constantly meditate and remember holy name -:- Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 04:42:04 (EST)
__ Joe -:- I Thought This Might Happen -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 22:11:47 (EST)
__ __ Deborah -:- I think YOU sunk the ship, Joe -:- Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 22:19:36 (EST)
__ __ Richard -:- How to help exiters?? -:- Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 17:07:11 (EST)
__ __ Disculta -:- To Joe -:- Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 00:27:25 (EST)
__ __ __ bill -:- Re: To Joe -:- Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 11:07:55 (EST)
__ __ Tonette -:- That's a good question -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 23:53:33 (EST)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- About Exiting Premies... -:- Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 00:13:29 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Disculta -:- Re: About Exiting Premies... -:- Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 00:25:54 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Re: About Exiting Premies... -:- Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 01:04:44 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Zelda -:- Re: About Exiting Premies... -:- Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 01:47:34 (EST)
__ Nigel -:- They are FREAKED! -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 21:03:29 (EST)
__ __ Auntie Eureeka -:- You Horrible Ex's -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 22:38:04 (EST)
__ __ __ Andrea Eriksonn -:- You're so right, Auntie... -:- Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 05:00:09 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Auntie Eureeka -:- Cousin Andrea!!!!!! Coming for Thanksgiving? (nt) -:- Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 10:02:54 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Pauline Premie -:- I'll Be There -:- Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 16:33:27 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- ROFL [nt] -:- Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 20:40:54 (EST)
__ __ __ Tonette -:- hardeharharhhar!!!!! nt -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 23:21:37 (EST)
__ Pat:C) -:- Re: ***PleaseConsiderThis.com folds*** -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 20:55:56 (EST)
__ __ Nige -:- relax - the 'drip' logo shines on.. -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 21:18:24 (EST)
__ Marianne -:- Information control? -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 20:42:31 (EST)
__ __ Innocent Bystander -:- JMB & Associates probably asked them to shut down [nt] -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 21:22:08 (EST)
__ __ Deborah -:- Marianne, I think they were [nt] -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 20:49:06 (EST)
__ __ Jim -:- Yes, Joe must be pissed -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 20:44:51 (EST)
__ __ __ Joe -:- Yes, I know -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 22:21:24 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- You're Right, Joe... -:- Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 00:18:53 (EST)
__ Deborah -:- What's to consider -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 20:41:23 (EST)
__ __ Cynthia -:- What Must Be Considered -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 21:44:38 (EST)

Marianne -:- Bubbling cauldron of self deception -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 18:07:21 (EST)
__ Richard -:- Re: Bubbling cauldron of self deception -:- Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 18:00:36 (EST)
__ __ JohnT -:- Catastrophic breakdown -:- Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 11:42:10 (EST)
__ Tonette -:- Yes, it seems it is coming to a head. -:- Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 00:36:42 (EST)
__ Deborah -:- Re: Bubbling cauldron of self deception -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 19:36:51 (EST)
__ __ Jim -:- Well ......... -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 20:11:35 (EST)
__ __ __ Deborah -:- I'm there Baby -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 20:37:26 (EST)
__ Ulf -:- Re: Bubbling cauldron of self deception -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 19:04:38 (EST)
__ Zelda -:- Pams earthquake awareness -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 18:46:56 (EST)
__ __ Tonette -:- Does anyone know? How many PAMs there are? NT -:- Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 21:43:49 (EST)
__ __ __ Katie -:- It depends what you mean by PAM -:- Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 11:25:42 (EST)
__ NigeandMoley (merged!) -:- Re: Bubbling cauldron of self deception -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 18:29:42 (EST)
__ __ PatD -:- How will it all end? -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 22:24:40 (EST)
__ __ __ AJW -:- I have seen the future. -:- Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 09:11:54 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Re: I have seen the future. -:- Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 12:24:04 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- You're right Cynthia. -:- Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 05:19:30 (EST)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Re: Bubbling cauldron of self deception -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 19:43:09 (EST)
__ __ __ Moley -:- Cynthia -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 19:55:40 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Moley, I hope so, too... -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 21:36:46 (EST)
__ __ __ Zelda -:- Re: Bubbling cauldron of self deception -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 19:50:21 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Re: Bubbling cauldron of self deception -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 21:49:14 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Zelda -:- Re: Pams - make disk/copies! -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 22:09:01 (EST)

IT IS SO -:- Update -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 11:57:20 (EST)
__ suchabanana -:- Read above link, everyone! -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 17:41:07 (EST)
__ Deborah -:- Page is lookin' good, Salam [nt] -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 15:47:10 (EST)
__ CAC Victim -:- Thank you, well done (nt) -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 14:41:02 (EST)

JHB -:- *** IMPORTANT MESSAGE FOR GERRY OR PAT -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 10:57:30 (EST)
__ janet -:- JHB-NETCAFE-USE SEARCH TO GET ONE -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 23:58:23 (EST)
__ JHB and -:- GOD -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 21:37:22 (EST)
__ Richard -:- Re:generator -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 17:56:07 (EST)
__ __ Cynthia -:- And...don't forget... -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 19:37:39 (EST)
__ Chuck S. -:- Electricity generators -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 14:05:12 (EST)
__ __ Moley -:- Help! Electricity generators OT -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 17:27:08 (EST)
__ __ __ janet -:- use the net to search 4 one! -:- Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 00:08:14 (EST)
__ __ __ __ cq -:- here's a supplier -:- Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 11:37:50 (EST)
__ salam -:- Re: *** IMPORTANT MESSAGE FOR GERRY OR PAT -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 11:49:59 (EST)
__ gerry -:- I'll do it John [nt] -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 11:14:07 (EST)


Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 20:34:30 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: All
Subject: ***PleaseConsiderThis.com folds***
Message:
Check it out:

Dear readers,

First, thanks for all your support over the past few months. It's been wonderful to hear from so many of you from around the world that you've enjoyed the articles on PleaseConsiderThis and found them helpful.

At this point, however, we're at a crossroads. We feel as though we've made our point; we've offered our perspective on key negative allegations being made by that small group of people who consider themselves 'anti-Maharaji.' Now we're concerned that our presence may simply become a distraction putting more attention on the negative allegations than they deserve.

We've decided to take the site offline for now to think about how it might better serve our original intention of giving interested people a fair chance to hear about the possibility of Knowledge.

In the meantime, if you are interested in Knowledge, we recommend as always that you take the time to listen to what Maharaji has to say about Knowledge and the Master. Most important, we'd suggest applying your own discrimination: is Knowledge something you want and need? Does it feel right for you? Would you feel comfortable being a student of Maharaji? Only you can answer those questions for yourself.

Until we meet again,

Warmly,

Erika Andersen
Mitch Ditkoff
David Andersen
Bob Johnson

What a drag! I was so looking forward to their next 'Speak Up!' topic:

Do you think that Maharaji's Training Sessions are in any way indicative of gross cult exploitation or not? Remember, for this topic all team members must be unanimous in their replies which, unfortunately, we can't print anyway for obvious secrecty concerns.

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Date: Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 14:29:33 (EST)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Where is Red Butler?
Message:
I am sure Red will have some interesting things to say about the demise of PCT.

Red has that special reporting style that really goes to the heart of the matter and uncovers the real truth, Red always knows just how to put things in proper perspective.

Oh Red ....... Please if you can find time in your busy work against the deadline schedule, let us in on the inside scoop.

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Date: Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 13:44:19 (EST)
From: Francesca :o)
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Joe and Jim, it was your critical analyses
Message:
People on F7 had discussed making some pages got EPO, or a web site refuting all the allegations on the reactionary and apologist sites (Charles Glasser's, Pia Grundbrum's, PleaseConsiderThis, CAC, etc.). We could have called it 'Please Consider Diss,' since the point of all those sites is basically to diss expremies and the views we present. Although that never happened, both of your point-by-point analyses on the forum (as well as the string of comments that followed them) served that purpose, and then some. They were well written, and well considered.

As shown in many ways -- including the revelations about the trainings done for instructors and high level PWKs -- if at the end of the day, the core philosophy is that the master is always right, and we just have to be grateful to follow him, then all the rest is smoke and mirrors. Either the truth will come out, or there will be something about the apologist point of view that doesn't quite seem right, just something funny about it that people can't quite identify. It was not lost on me that the PCT triumvirate capitalized the word 'Master' in their goodbye statement:
In the meantime, if you are interested in Knowledge, we recommend as always that you take the time to listen to what Maharaji has to say about Knowledge and the Master.

'Diss' sites are doing more harm than good, and are free advertisement for EPO. If no one is going to intelligently refute the material on EPO or statements made on the Forums, or prove any of it wrong (how can they prove his own feaking satsangs and DLM and EV materials wrong, as well as statements that RECENT exes are saying that he is making in smartcard programs and trainings--these people heard this stuff themselves???) people are going to wonder what the hell EPO and expremies are saying that is getting the apologists and CACas all in a dither.

As Joe said, I wish the four PleaseConsiderThis folks well -- I used to know two of them and they are nice people -- and this is not a war against premies themselves. More like a voice crying out in the fog of magical thinking.

Bests,

F

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Date: Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 16:18:27 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Francesca :o)
Subject: Very true, Francesca
Message:
In a system that is as absolute as Maharaji's cult, when there are all the mixed/illogical messages John talks about, one in which Maharaji is the end all and the be all and he is always right (although he makes 'mistakes' he can't be criticized), it gets very dangerous to do what the Andersens and Mitch tried to do.

They tried, in an itsy bitsy way to talk to people in terms where people not in a cult operate. The problem is that exposes all the mind control under which they must operate to keep the cult going for themselves, and puts them dangerously close to objective thinking about Maharaji and their own cult thinking. And once somebody verges into that area, their cult days are numbered. Hence, all you can do is retreat and get out of the ballgame like they have now done.

It was interesting to watch PCT because they tried so very hard to prove to themselves and others that there was no magical thinking going on, but it was like a tar baby, they just kept getting stuck.

It's kind of sad, really. They put probably hundreds of hours of work into that site. It was very well done, but what they were trying to defend wasn't defensible. So, like you, I hope they take their considerable talents and leave Maharaji in their past.

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Date: Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 21:47:16 (EST)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Piercing Logic Joe
Message:
The problem is that exposes all the mind control under which they must operate to keep the cult going for themselves, and puts them dangerously close to objective thinking about Maharaji and their own cult thinking. And once somebody verges into that area, their cult days are numbered. Hence, all you can do is retreat and get out of the ballgame like they have now done.

With a well thrown dart you hit the Bullseye on this one Joe. Even the pollyanna premie Erica in all of her serendipity, by venturing into the objective arena, or at least attempting to, probably got hit with an honest dose of what was really going on.

I understand the process, I also went through it when I first arrived here as well. I am just thankful that I embraced the opportunity to see my situation clearly and not pack up and run back to the cult. Which I almost did, and I shudder as I admit it.

I think you pinpointed the real issue and that is when a premie starts to sort through and defend his beliefs against the facts and information available today they just don't stack-up.

Once the slightest bit of honesty is let in, it is just a matter of time before the house of cards comes tumbling down.

The cult ingrained mush minded concepts will only work where there is no resistance or questions presented against the system.

The site had to go, mainly because the basis of objective information and honest inquiry in this medium would not support such a weak premise.

Good luck to all of them, it might be a stretch but maybe we will see the other shoe fall from one or two of the folks from PCT.

Brian the shoe salesman

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Date: Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 12:26:30 (EST)
From: The Master
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: ???????
Message:
So, they are implying that he is still considered Master (Perfect Master?)? I thought he changed his title again, no? Meditation teacher?
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Date: Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 16:59:53 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: The Master
Subject: 'Master' is in 'Perfect' is Out
Message:
Some other word changes in the Maharaji cult:

'Maharaji' is in, 'Guru'/'Satguru' (except in India) is out
'Gratitude' is in, 'Devotion' is out' except in music
'Participation' is in, 'Service' is out
'Student' is in, 'Premie' is out
'Technique Number One' is in, 'Light Technique' is out
'Listen to your heart' is in, 'Don't be in your mind' is out
'Breath' is in, 'God' is out

Also, saying a lot of things we used to say, like "Maharaji is the incarnation of God" and all powerful is out, but firmly, firmly believing that, and being terrified of doubting that, is still very much in, and in fact the essence of the cult.

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Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 02:39:57 (EST)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Constantly meditate and remember holy name
Message:
This has been reduced down to something like, try and practice the techniques 1 hour each day at the most convienient and comfortable time for you.

1 hour! It is interesting to see how much easier m has made salvation in todays competetive market. It's like the blue light special at K mart, a spiritual firesale or something,

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Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 04:42:04 (EST)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Brian Smith
Subject: Re: Constantly meditate and remember holy name
Message:
I rememberm teeling us that if you stay 'on the Word' you can drive 100mh thru the rush hour.
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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 22:11:47 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I Thought This Might Happen
Message:
I think it hit the crew over there that they were doing more damage than good, basically giving us an outline of topics to address. Plus, they didn't make much sense. That might be one reason.

Another is that Jean Marie told them to take it down. This is actually quite likely.

I think Jean Marie has been brought it under crisis mode to try to stop the hemorraging, probably personally asked to do so by Maharaji and Valario Pascotto.

Third possibility is that John's posts have gotten to them. Recall that last March Erika and Scott (her husband) were posting on the Forum saying that they were 'questioning' Maharaji.

Then, a few months later they appear as devout cult members with no doubts whatsoever. Maybe they are thinking again? Not sure.

I think David Andersen will go down with the ship.

But I have a big question, and maybe I should start a new thread.

How are we going to help the people leaving? That's what this is all about, not some kind of battle or such. What kind of services and help can we provide those people who are leaving the cult?

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Date: Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 22:19:36 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: I think YOU sunk the ship, Joe
Message:
It is more likely to me that your persistent analytical dissection of their posts and equivalent follow-ups sunk the ship. Jim did a good job on them as well, but YOU were like a bull dog with a bone.

Maha may have given them the thumbs down not to try anymore though. And I also think that JOhn Mc's post was an untimely iceburg in their path.

But You Joe, you, you...

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Date: Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 17:07:11 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: How to help exiters??
Message:
Joe,

The answer to your question as to how we can help exiters is to be found in the following commendable lines from their own site:
we'd suggest applying your own discrimination: is Knowledge something you want and need? Does it feel right for you? Would you feel comfortable being a student of Maharaji? Only you can answer those questions for yourself.

Yes, they do say Does it feel right for you? rather than 'Do you think it is right for you' but still, it lays open the possibility that it might NOT be right. Discrimination and rational thinking in light of both the feelings and the facts, allow potential students or current ones to decide for themselves what is right.

Point being, we can be of greatest help by simply telling the truth about what we know and leave it the individual to decide. This is nothing new as many of the posts here are either reportage or commentary on those reports. Plus the excellent opinion pieces.

Richard

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Date: Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 00:27:25 (EST)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: To Joe
Message:
YOu said, 'How are we going to help the people leaving? That's what this is all about, not some kind of battle or such. What kind of services and help can we provide those people who are leaving the cult?'

Exactly! I e-mailed you about this.

love ktd

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Date: Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 11:07:55 (EST)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: Re: To Joe
Message:
Well Joe,
Since you asked the question I will comment on what you do already.
You post some really remarkable posts. And frankly, I think lately you have really been on a hell of a roll.
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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 23:53:33 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: That's a good question
Message:
How are we going to help the people leaving?

I dunno what will work for everyone but I can outline what helped me in making the circle. Although I was at an advantage in that, I had left years earlier. My husband exited via this forum and EPO about a year or so ago. As well as his friend who had also been a premie for 28 years.

There are issues to say the least. I think a web page containing some of the articles on cults would be beneficial. That might help some of these people to understand just what the hell happened to them. As well as some of the books recently mentioned below in a thread 'books to exit by.'

Also, on this web page, could be links to other web sites specifically dealing with cults . Let the exiting premies know that they were not alone in falling for the con.

There have been numerous posts here on the forum and in it's archives that deal specifically with the exiting issue. Maybe they can be hunted down and compliled in a neat package. Some of the posts I've read are so gentle yet honest. That could help.

I trust in the resilency of the human spirit but I too, worry about exiting premies. There are going to be some freaked out people who have spent the bulk of their life believing in the tooth fairy. Who have in essence given their life. It's a shame.

What I would really like to see happen but I've been told this is a pipe dream, I would like Maharaji to sell his plane, his boat, his watch collection, his land and his houses to help pay for his students therapists and to pay back all the money he has conned out of people over the years, with interest. Have M pay back the trust funds, monies given and the free labor. This just illustrates the tip of the iceberg. He has taken alot from alot of people under the guise of being a holy man. Well he isn't and he knew it all along. That untimately is going to be the real helping hand. Maharaji should do it. He's the one who made this mess in the first place.

As for us here on the forum, the EPO site, Roger's House and others well, we can only do our best and try. I feel really bad for some of the people M has touched with his world. I truly do.

Regards, Tonette

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Date: Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 00:13:29 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: About Exiting Premies...
Message:
Hello all,

This is a time that may be unprecedented and I feel a strong pull towards helping anyone out of the cult. I am willing to provide a hotline service, although I could not finance it myself. I have training in crisis counseling and know how to direct people to proper resources. I know how to assist people to advocate for themselves. I would be willing to research those resources needed to be set up in advance, in order to have a semblance of sanity in coordinating what such resources would be.

I sincerely hope that PAMS, semi-PAMS, and any premie wanting assistance will feel safe to come here for help.

There is also the matter of so many different countries involved. I could easily do a hotline for the northeast and the entire east coast. I have the time, but not the $$.

I now believe without a doubt that anyone sincerely wanting refuge from the cult deserves a break. I had a strong hunch that the type of brainwashing and mindfuck going on in m's world did exist. It doesn't make me happy to have my hunch turn out to be correct. Hopefully, many premies will simply come to the forum and discuss their issues here.

In that regard, I hope that everyone here will be sensitive to the needs of the exiting premies, i.e., not getting in their faces to prove points.

Likewise, I ask everyone to ignore the trolls that will appear here. If in fact, a mass exodus of premies does occur, we need to dedicate space to them, not the interlopers and distruptors.

I feel shaken to my core. I am worried about premies who may fall prey to any of Maharaji's future terrorist tactics.

Women in Afganistan are showing their faces and putting on makeup. Men are shaving their beards. I hope that all premies will feel safe to remove their cloak of fear and ask for assistance.

Or, at the very least, read here, or ask for other outside help.

Cynthia

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Date: Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 00:25:54 (EST)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Re: About Exiting Premies...
Message:
Hi Joe and Cynthia,

Oddly, I had posted a similar response to Cynthia's and it didn't appear. Now I read what she said, and I have had similar ideas - something like 1-800-ex-prem-anon. And the possibility of a separate website JUST FOR THIS, heavily linked here and to EPO, but more to the point of the needs of people who have undergone what we have seen described.

I also feel more drawn to do something practical than ever before. I don't have much energy or time because of health issues, but I have quite a bit of information from my experience counselling people exiting for years.

Cynthia, I must know you, since you were at DECA so long!

love Ktd

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Date: Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 01:04:44 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: Re: About Exiting Premies...
Message:
Hi Disculta,

I would have to know when and where you worked at Deca. If you want, email me at sylviecyn@yahoo.com. I am very curious!

Thanks for your encouragement and support,
Love
Cynthia

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Date: Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 01:47:34 (EST)
From: Zelda
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Re: About Exiting Premies...
Message:
this idea of a hotline for exiting premies is timely.
We dont talk about it much here, but an fenceline premie can feel stuck because all their associations are in the world of M.

I think a dedicated line with referals one of those who volunteer would work.

The viels are coming off - and these things come in clusters.

Z

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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 21:03:29 (EST)
From: Nigel
Email: nige@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Jim
Subject: They are FREAKED!
Message:
- whether by John Mac's post itself, or by what its effects might be upon innocent aspirants. Either way, they can't deal with it. The timing is too close for coincidence. Did they jump, or were they pushed?

'Speak up!' indeed has a hollow ring. I am reminded of routed Taliban footsoldiers fleeing to the mountains, still swearing 'death or glory', when they know the battle is lost. (an analogy - not a political point)

From probability theory's first principles I would suggest that at least one of this gang of four should be ready to jump ship about now..

Guess we will provide the lifeboats when the time arises.

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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 22:38:04 (EST)
From: Auntie Eureeka
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: You Horrible Ex's
Message:
Now look what you've done! Have you no shame? Honestly, how can you live with yourselves, upsetting my dear sister Erika like this? She is simply beside herself with grief.

Her compassionate, infinitely kind teacher, MaHaRaJi dialed down from the Challenger, politely asking how Erika and her perfect family are. That new PR person, that you people forced EV to hire, then grabbed the phone from this most patient lord and screamed at my poor unsuspecting sister, demanding she was the cause of all MaHaRaJi's problems. It was then brought to her attention, after a unanimous vote by the flight crew, that Erika had taken upon herself to set up the web site without Team permission, and more specifically, MaHaRaJi himself. Such independent thinking is out of place in the world of knowledge.

Now, as the New Pr person incharge, JMB and Associates (no affliliation to Seva) must rectify the situation by recending Erika's Smartcard. No longer will she be given priority seating. She has to undergo remediation training with the Industrial Strength Church Lady, then and only then, will she be allowed to look upon her most beloved Teacher in satellite events again.

Can't you people get real jobs and real lives, like my sister and her husband? Surely you non-large contributors are capable of some sort of employment. Instead, what do you do? Hang around this Forum and harrass and criticize the sweetest sister anyone ever had the good fortune to have. I meam, without Erika, we would never have known the joys of Public Participation and getting to cut in front in the Darshan line.

Really, you've upset our little world and we are not pleased. You darkened my sister's bright world and she may now have to go on Prozac to regain her sunny outlook.

Auntie is very annoyed with you naughtykins here on the Forum.

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Date: Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 05:00:09 (EST)
From: Andrea Eriksonn
Email: None
To: Auntie Eureeka
Subject: You're so right, Auntie...
Message:
Erika is such a DEAR! And she has now been hounded off the internet by these ex-students, asking all their difficult, inconvenient and annoying questions, and nit-picking at her beautiful statments. No premie should ever have to endure that. Maharaji quite wisely just ingnores questions, and so should his students.

Erika really did hit the nail on the head when she said these ex-students are determined to look at everything Maharaji does in a negative way, by filtering out the good. Why, they JUST REFUSE TO SEE all the GOOD that has come out of Maharaji covering up Jadgeo's child molesting activites, and helping him escape law enforcement, and all the good that came out of letting someone else take the blame for running over that unfortunate student in India, and the good that came out of having one night stands with female students, and the good that came out of collecting all that money from the ashram premies for years and years, then changing his mind about taking care of them and kicking them out into the street.

The list goes on and on, I could post all day, but they just WON'T see the GOOD! It's very frustrating to witness, and probably harmful too, so I don't think I'll be posting here much longer either, the ungratefullness and negativity here are just too awful, not to mention all the friggin QUESTIONS. And they disect our posts, break them into pieces and address them, section by section. I HATE that, it's so unsyncronized, and possibly illegal!

If these ex-students had taken the proper trainings, they would understand that the roll of Maharaji's students is to SHUT UP and LISTEN. LISTEN!!! He has told us this many times. These Apostate ex-students don't do that, which is why they are confused, and CAC happens. I'm always grateful to be shouted at by You-Know-Who.

At the Feet of The Teacher,

Andrea Eriksonn,

- Who never filters out the good, but only the bad, because it makes it easier to be happy and normal and not in a cult. Oh, and gratefull, too:

Grateful to be a student with no vote,

Grateful not to be a "training" scape-goat.

Happy to consider THIS, not THAT,

Happy not to be listed on CAC.

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Date: Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 10:02:54 (EST)
From: Auntie Eureeka
Email: None
To: Andrea Eriksonn
Subject: Cousin Andrea!!!!!! Coming for Thanksgiving? (nt)
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 16:33:27 (EST)
From: Pauline Premie
Email: None
To: Auntie Eureeka
Subject: I'll Be There
Message:
And I heard Janice Wilson and Derek Harper were going to be there. Derek is bringing the booze, at least what's left of it.

I heard Andrea is making tofurky for certain people who are stuck in the concepts of the past, and barbecued turkey with hot sauce for all the people who are more thoroughly modern students.

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Date: Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 20:40:54 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Pauline Premie
Subject: ROFL [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 23:21:37 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Auntie Eureeka
Subject: hardeharharhhar!!!!! nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 20:55:56 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: ***PleaseConsiderThis.com folds***
Message:
It looks like all current cult propaganda has been taken off line. I am wondering if they a gearing up for a new PR onslaught (including unfortunately more Scientology type CAC attacks etc.) I think I'll check and see if Glasser's site is still there.
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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 21:18:24 (EST)
From: Nige
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: relax - the 'drip' logo shines on..
Message:
I just clicked on the ELK site for the first time this year and the drip flag is still fying (appropriate logo, heh?) and therefore assume that Janet, Ivette and Slovan are still having some sort of breathy, lifes great experience. Or someone must be - how else could this silly personailty cult keep going?
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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 20:42:31 (EST)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Information control?
Message:
What I want to know is, were these folks asked to take down the site by anyone else? Joe and I were remarking today that the site was great because it gave so much grist for the mill.

Marianne

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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 21:22:08 (EST)
From: Innocent Bystander
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: JMB & Associates probably asked them to shut down [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 20:49:06 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Marianne, I think they were [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 20:44:51 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Yes, Joe must be pissed
Message:
First they outdo his EV parodies with their own over-the-top letter. Then they do this? Sorry, Joe. Sorry indeed.
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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 22:21:24 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Yes, I know
Message:
I will sorely miss Please Consider This. I truly had a wonderful time. But keep in mind, they really are basically very nice people (I think) and they deserve a whole lot better than to be associated with that megalomaniac Maharaji. I hope they get out okay, and I wish them all the best.
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Date: Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 00:18:53 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: You're Right, Joe...
Message:
You and Jim were having at that site like nothing I've ever witnessed before. You were effective and brilliant. But I know EA's husband SC from DECA, and as you will read from my post below, I feel for anyone who has gone through that insanity.

I too wish them well; I wish us all well. I don't think this is all over yet. I don't want to see it end badly.

You, you--Joe, are a very special individual. You need to right a book. I want you to write a book. You have a unique and natural way of expressing yourself in words that deserves some attention.

I hope you're well....I'm kind of shaken at the moment, but I feel very good today.

Cynth

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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 20:41:23 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: What's to consider
Message:
Oh! That's right. They made their point! What a joke.

It's so funny, I forgot to laugh.

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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 21:44:38 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: What Must Be Considered
Message:
It's not about winning battles or wars. It's about people who are trapped by Maharaji's obscene brainwashing techniques who are now confused and probably afraid. I hope they are afraid.

It's not 'oh well' we'll be here for the survivors, it's let's hope everyone survives.

My personal wish is that they've all jumped ship and are in hiding, not that they've been given agya to pull out.

Now, where is Maharaji and is he in seclusion?

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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 18:07:21 (EST)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Bubbling cauldron of self deception
Message:
There is no way for me to candy coat this post. I am VERY WORRIED about what is going on with the people who are running EV, Captain Rawat and current PAMs. John MacGregor's post has convinced me that I have to say this.

Look folks, these trainings are mirror images of what was going on in Peoples Temple for several years. They reached the crescendo in Jonestown. Same goes for the CAC attempts to discredit the voices of those who post here. The email that Joe received from some anonymous person at EV is also a source of concern.

The techniques used in these trainings amounts to brainwashing, pure and simple. They are the same techiniques Jim Jones employed in order to gain the absolute, unquestioning loyalty of his followers. And what did those around Jim Jones do at his behest? They used legal and illegal means to try to discredit their critics -- those who had left or been banished from the fold, or the concerned families of devout Temple members. They spied on PT members who were considered to be disloyal and had them brought up for nightly criticism sessions at Jonestown -- sessions that were emotionally and physically brutal. The training sessions John describes are virtually identical to what had been happening in PT both in San Francisco and in Jonestown. In the end, those around Jones were the ones who initiated the killing of Congressman Ryan at the airstrip, and also helped hand out the cyanide laced kool aid at the end. That event took more than 3 hours to occur. Death by cyanide poisoning is horrible. You writhe and foam at the mouth. So people watched as their friends, families and little children died after taking the poison.

I am absolutely horrified and frightened that Maharaji told the trainees that they had to unquestioningly follow the directions of the team leaders, at the risk of killing themselves! That's what the hole digging analogy means. He might as well have said, 'If the team leader tells you to drink the kool aid, YOU WILL DRINK IT!'

PAMs, please ask yourselves, why must Maharaji demand this unquestioning loyalty? To what end is this loyalty to be put? What is it designed to accomplish? Also, examine what you are being asked to do these days. Are you being asked to monitor EPO? To check around to see who is writing posts? To compile lists of premies of suspect loyalty and those whose loyalty is unquestioned? How is Maharaji behaving? Is he obsessed with EPO? With those of us who post here? How about those closest to Maharaji -- are they showing any of these signs and are they insisting that 'EPO will not get away with it'?

Aside from the disturbing information in John's posts, the best barometer I can identify that EV and those around Maharaji have totally lost all perspective about EPO is that this place has been dubbed a hate site. Anyone who reads here knows this is a place of support, compassion and understanding. To characterize it otherwise suggests the commentator has not really read the contents of this site.

What ultimately drove Jim Jones and those around him to kill Congressman Ryan and conduct the mass suicide was the defection some of those who had been close to him since the early days of Peoples Temple. He could not stand that they were leaving him behind. In fact, in the NBC video tapes made during those last days, Jones tells one of the reporters, 'These people who want to leave -- they tell lies. It's all lies.' Isn't that just the refrain we're hearing from EV and some of the premies these days?

Marianne

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Date: Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 18:00:36 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Re: Bubbling cauldron of self deception
Message:
Good grief, Marianne. This comparison is worrisome indeed. I can't for the life of me understand why those trainings have taken such a bizarre and destructive turn. Cruel and unusual punishment is being handed out to those who helped M build his empire. I am certain it is done 'for our own good by a caring and loving Master'. I only hope John's 'training' was an abberation that went awry, but I seriously doubt it. Can it be that M is so insecure that he has to browbeat devotion from those dear, deluded people?

We were all there once, so I feel compassionate for the participants. I can only beg premies to find out all you can before taking another breath in gratitude. Know what you are attributing your life force to.

Richard

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Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 11:42:10 (EST)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Catastrophic breakdown
Message:
I think m's cult may well end with murder/suicide as well. There have been various ways out on the past, but Rawat has never proved able to take them, and he is even less likely now to be able to escape his own web.

Do you know if Jim Jones took to going into retreat increasingly often before the final breakdown? I have a feeling that this may prove to be typical behaviour for a cult leader nearing the end of the road. I can imagine a person would go off on his own and immerse himself in stinking-thinking. Then, having re-convinced himself of a way forward the leader returns with renewed vigour.

That fails too (of course) -- so off to another retreat. As the situation continues to deteriorate from the cult leader's point of view, these periods of retreat happen acceleratingly often, until the closing web of delusion leaves only the ultimate test to try ...

I do not mean to be alarmist, and I am certainly not saying that a regular annual retreat is something that should cause concern. But if there is a periodic behaviour of Rawat's which is occuring with accelerating frequency (retreats are just my guess) then that is another matter.

Those close to Rawat would be well advised to monitor that behaviour, and the intervals between its recurrence, as it may enable an educated guess to be made as to when he will turn murderous before killing himself.

My own guess is that the method will involve the drowning of his disciples and himself, perhaps by inviting a select few to join him on his yacht.

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Date: Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 00:36:42 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Yes, it seems it is coming to a head.
Message:
And I worry too. I don't put much past M seeing as how he isn't wrapped too tight. How tightly wrapped can you be in an alcoholic haze? Not to mention the tremendous ego operating in him?

I've thought about this some. I especially worry about you and the other CAC victims who have been obviously targeted. Yes, I am using that word, targeted, with it's full meaning. Personally, I would like to see all references to your and the other victims home address, phone numbers, etc removed from the archives. I'm a small fry but I would like any identifying location removed from any of my old posts also.

Listen, this is getting ugly with the cult. There are some die hard premies who, although unbalanced, are quite capable of executing any sort of orders from the likes of people like David Smith or cult die hards.

I was just talking with a premie today who happens to live in my neighborhood. Although she will not come and read the 'history' of Elan Vital and Maharaji on EPO. Oh no, don't EVEN mention that! Rape, there was a rape or two or three of children? I don't want to know! Shut up! Shut up! It can't be true, it's lies. Sound familiar, Marianne? She still finished this weird conversation with, and I quote, 'Well, I'm going to see him anyway in Philadelphia.' Yeah, cool, drive carefully and I do want to hear all about it. My point is, there are some wacked people following Maharaji. I don't necessarily think M would sanction anything per se, but I don't put it past some of his followers. I forgot to mention that this person also told me that many, many, premies she knows in the DC area have left.

Yes, some of this is coming to a head. Are the authorites going to be involved after the fact? I'll write Connie Morela again, my representative and Mulkalski, my senator. Give them another heads up.

Hang in there and my house is your haven should you ever need it.

I worry about you guys, Tonette

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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 19:36:51 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Re: Bubbling cauldron of self deception
Message:
Hi Marianne,

I have wondered why some of the people who post here have been so polite about what has been going on. As dreadful as it is to read John's post, and it was dreadful, this is not really that surprising to me. It is, however, my worse nightmare.

Jim has teased me about being a drama queen. Eat your words, Jim.

What type of person does it take to run a cult like this one. I mean, listen to the shit coming out of the posts from the apologists. These are grown men, with families, who undoubtedly sold their children to the cult as well.

If you noticed, I have never apologized for my verbal outbursts to the BigHead. It is long,. long, long overdue. Trying to be polite smacks of the 'social acceptance' fear card played out in these trainings. This is not something we should have to be polite about. Maha is a disgusting and dangerous human being who does not like to be criticized. Well, FUCK HIM.

YOU FUCKING SON OF A BASTARD MAHARAJI. YOU SPOILED DERANGED IDIOT.

Marianne, we are in the throws of another Jones's Town debacle.

This should definitely go to press before the crisis hits. I can't say it any other way.

Did you read that joke about the Jews and the ovens? This is the type of man, he is, without question.

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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 20:11:35 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: Well .........
Message:
Jim has teased me about being a drama queen. Eat your words, Jim.

Well, you're right, Deb. This is explosively dangerous human manipulation.

Hey, party at my place tomorrow night if you're free. Should be fun.

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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 20:37:26 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I'm there Baby
Message:
Hey Jim,

I just finished a post to you in John's thread. What a dynamite post, eh? I mentioned that I'd call you this weekend. Coincidence?

Fuck, everytime you have a party, it's prime cult gossip time. Maha will never be able to visit Victoria. He'd be lynched by your friends before he got his Captain's jacket off.

About the party, I'll be there, with bells on. Well, maybe I'll just settle for my bell bottoms. Ciao

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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 19:04:38 (EST)
From: Ulf
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Re: Bubbling cauldron of self deception
Message:
Yes , we are dealing with a deeply insane and brainwashed cult here

After Johns post , i see it is much more insane than i ever would have been able to dream up, in my worst nigthmare,

I hope premies will understand this, and leave before the big end
Because i think the big end could indeed come , someday soon

Also , i think that a hurt animal will figth back

How far they will go in figthing back , i do not dare to think about
but they are surely not anymore premies like i remember

many of us left many years ago , and the years after we left made
a new kind of premies , so fucking scary it is

It is somehow like they come from another planet

Take care Ulf

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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 18:46:56 (EST)
From: Zelda
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Pams earthquake awareness
Message:
Marianne
Reading your post-things are very serious around maraji- but then I think what can the PAMs do if things continue to heat up- and they develope into closet fence sitters?

Hopefully this forum is being monitored by law enforcement and Pams that have fears for their own welfare can get help/shelter if the fan hits the shit.
However I imagine that in the meantime, margys mania will cause the slow erosion of Pams causing many casualties we wiil never know about .

It may be a good idea to post a 5/6 step process for those pams who have fried brains and impaired judgement. Something like

1 Allow yourself to think about it. but carry on as normal-
2 establish contact with exs willing to escort through process
3 Dont devulge your thoughts to colleages
4 Identify a safe house for yourself -
5 make travel arrangements -
6 Leave during routine business.
7 cover your tracks

Short of a takeover type coupe , it will be individuals who make the independant decisions

Zelda

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Date: Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 21:43:49 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Zelda
Subject: Does anyone know? How many PAMs there are? NT
Message:
nt
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Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 11:25:42 (EST)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: It depends what you mean by PAM
Message:
PAM is a word coined on this forum that means 'Person Around Maharaji'. I noticed that Cat got upset when John Macgregor called himself an 'occasional PAM' - meaning that he was occasionally around Maharaji - because the meaning of the word 'PAM' has apparently been revised upwards in people's minds to mean 'People who Maharaji really trusts and hangs out with.'

Anyway, with the latter meaning in mind, I don't think there are very many. Less than ten, for sure.

Take care, Tonette -
Katie

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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 18:29:42 (EST)
From: NigeandMoley (merged!)
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Re: Bubbling cauldron of self deception
Message:
Great post, Mar - and worrying too, less for the likes of us than for those still involved. You have drawn some disturbing and seemingly accurate analogies here.

How will it all end? - as end it must...

It's weird, but even now it may be hard to really acknowledge that Maharaji's cult is no different from that of Jim Jones'.... Yet, John Mac has made that so clear.

EV monitor, get out while you can.

Hey Mar, how 'bout a phone chat soon?
N&M

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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 22:24:40 (EST)
From: PatD
Email: None
To: NigeandMoley (merged!)
Subject: How will it all end?
Message:
What you (merged)& Marianne are speculating,is what would it take for Rawat to top himself & take with him anyone who happened to be around.

The fact that he got pissed off when his co-pilot discovered that he was a guru, as someone mentioned here recently,makes me think that losing his money would be much more likely to tip him over the edge than realising he'd failed in his mission.

As with careful management it's difficult to lose a fortune of $50 mil, & there are loads of adorers back home in India, the lad has got mileage in him yet I fear.

I hope I'm right.

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Date: Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 09:11:54 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: PatD
Subject: I have seen the future.
Message:
Oh ye of earthly sight. I have seen the future and it is so.

The Captain will lose his empire and most of his devotees (actually, he's already lost most of them, most of them that are left I mean).

The assets will be sold off and stolen by followers, in that beautiful period between realising yourself, and telling someone. You know, when you admit the Emporer is naked.

Marolyn will go back to San Diego and rebuild her life. She'll write a fantastic book about her days as a Goddess.

The Captain will open a garage and luxury used Car Mart in Malibu. He'll be happy at last, under the bonnet of a Ferrari, pointing out the wonderful features of a 600 to a local coke dealer with a suitcase full of cash.

Monica will have a hard time putting up with him, but, what the hell, it's better having to go back home and live with her mum. And after all, he was Lord of the Universe once, so you have to give him a little leeway, right? If only he wouldn't play those Peter Frampton records so loud.

Yup, he won't be so grand, but he'll be happier in himself.

Anthrodamus, you read if first here.

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Date: Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 12:24:04 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Re: I have seen the future.
Message:
Anth,

''The Captain will open a garage and luxury used Car Mart in Malibu. He'll be happy at last, under the bonnet of a Ferrari, pointing out the wonderful features of a 600 to a local coke dealer with a suitcase full of cash.''

But Anth, who will be there to get their hands all greasy? He likes to stick his head under the hood of a car, but as I remember, never got his hands too dirty. Germs, you know. Dirty, Dirty...

Cynthia, having visions of a burnt our ex-guru yachting on the Atlantic...

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Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 05:19:30 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: You're right Cynthia.
Message:
He'll be in the office, smoking Marlborough, playing Nintendo, watching the clock to see if it's time for his morning cognac yet.

There'll still be the odd, grey-haired, faithfull mechanic slave around. Sort of Egor with a spanner.

Anth, polishing his crystal balls.

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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 19:43:09 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: NigeandMoley (merged!)
Subject: Re: Bubbling cauldron of self deception
Message:
Marianne,

Your post said what I couldn't say. You know. Thank you for ringing the bell because I honestly believe that Maharaji is out of control and I fear for his close followers.

I'm pretty much speechless right now....and worried.

Love to you,
Cynthia

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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 19:55:40 (EST)
From: Moley
Email: moldy_warp@hotmail.com
To: Cynthia
Subject: Cynthia
Message:
You said:

I'm pretty much speechless right now....and worried.

Me too! But I think it will be OK! I just hope that premies reading this will have the courage (and it DOES take courage) to get the hell out of there.

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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 21:36:46 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Moley
Subject: Moley, I hope so, too...
Message:
Moley,

Thanks for your reassurance. There are folks I know from way back when who are still entrenched in the cult and I am concerned. I send them my best thoughts and hopes, and urge them to get out now.

Thanks, Moley,
Cynthia

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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 19:50:21 (EST)
From: Zelda
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Re: Bubbling cauldron of self deception
Message:
Cynthia
I think this site should include a short emergency exit plan for those premies close to M. In the middle of a fray or crisis the mind doesnt function and a check list may help.
something like in my earthquake post above.

EPO has alot of exiting information that needs to be processed- but those on a sinking ship dont need to process they need to act, often from panic mode.

Z

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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 21:49:14 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Zelda
Subject: Re: Bubbling cauldron of self deception
Message:
Zelda,

I can't think of anything to add to your list except that people try to take documentation with them and to go to the police if they believe they are in danger.

Especially those near to m physically, and those in Amaroo.

I don't know what resources EPO could have for those who fear exiting without consequences, except a hotline.

I welcome any suggestions.

Cynth

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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 22:09:01 (EST)
From: Zelda
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Re: Pams - make disk/copies!
Message:
you are right- documentation including COPIES of usefull info and memos.

there is a list somewhere of exs willing to help but not in a emergency per sae

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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 11:57:20 (EST)
From: IT IS SO
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Update
Message:
I have made this statement into an html file and uploaded it.

May the loard be with them, because they need it.
[ CAC Statement ]

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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 17:41:07 (EST)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: IT IS SO
Subject: Read above link, everyone!
Message:
Excellent!
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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 15:47:10 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: IT IS SO
Subject: Page is lookin' good, Salam [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 14:41:02 (EST)
From: CAC Victim
Email: None
To: IT IS SO
Subject: Thank you, well done (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 10:57:30 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: All
Subject: *** IMPORTANT MESSAGE FOR GERRY OR PAT
Message:
We had a storm yesterday and a fallen tree has brought down our electricity line along with one of the concrete posts holding it up. The electricity company is inundated with work and cannot say when it will be repaired, so I'm off-line at home for the time being.

Gerry or Pat, can one of you take an archive over the weekend and send it to me please?

Also, anyone know anything about electricity generators?

Thanks,

John posting from Limbazi's new internet cafe but probably smelly as I haven't had a shower:-)

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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 23:58:23 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: JHB-NETCAFE-USE SEARCH TO GET ONE
Message:
IF YOU HAVE USE OF THE CAFE, THEN USE THAT NET ACCESS TO DO A SEARCH TO BUY/RENT/FIND A GENERATOR NEAR YOU.
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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 21:37:22 (EST)
From: JHB and
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: GOD
Message:
Generator-Operator-Destroyer
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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 17:56:07 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Re:generator
Message:
John, we have a small gas engine powered 5KW generator that will run most of the important stuff (frig, stereo, TV, hot water heater) in the event we lose power. It cost US$500 and worth it. Ours has a disconnect at the house which was straightforward to intall by a competent electrician. You can most likely rent a generator at a home center or rental shop. Get at least a 3.5KW and a suitable extension cord to run inside.

Good luck,
Richard

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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 19:37:39 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: And...don't forget...
Message:
the gasoline, er, I mean petrol...

I have many backups in my home, 4 different sources of heat, etc...

Up here it's been a kind autumn for Vermont so far. 60 degrees yesterday and that's a gift. Lots of folks who are in remote areas do own generators because they need to keep freezers full of food from spoiling and be able to use the basics: TV, fridge/freezers, and cooking ranges if they don't have propane.

Good luck all. They can be annoyingly loud, but serve a good purpose when the juice is cut.

Best...

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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 14:05:12 (EST)
From: Chuck S.
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Electricity generators
Message:
My parents have one, there was a terrible ice storm in New England about two years ago, they were without electricity for over a month. The generator cost them about $500.US, that included having it wired into the house. They can run it for a few hours everyday, they say it's money well-spent. There must be something equivelent available where you are.
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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 17:27:08 (EST)
From: Moley
Email: moldy_warp@hotmail.com
To: Chuck S.
Subject: Help! Electricity generators OT
Message:
Does anyone know where you can buy electricity generators in the UK??? Me and Nige need one for our country residence.... candles and coal only go so far in the Far Northlands.
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Date: Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 00:08:14 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Moley
Subject: use the net to search 4 one!
Message:
you silly people. its right at your fingertips. don't you ever use this thing for anything beside EPO?
today i put my head to the goal of getting all the information I could run down on kerosene space heaters. A friend of mine is living in a tent in our backyard till he finds a place he can rent and move into, and the cold weather has arrived. We found a kerosene heater in the alleys in someone's trash and brought it home during the summer, but didn;t know what it was or how it was to be handled. his frie who knew was unreachable. so not wanting to burn down his tent or asphyxiate him overnight, I duly rose this am and got online and went to Metacrawler™ and typed in 'kerosene heater safety', and spent the rest of the day browsing thru the results and printing whatever rang a bell for relevance to what we have.

go thou and do likewise.
i suggest you start with a search for 'electricity generators' and once getting results, then refine your search to domestic use,local sales, and run on fuels you can obtain cheaply and conveniently where you live.
think, people. you have the WWW. use it.!

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Date: Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 11:37:50 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: here's a supplier
Message:
http://www.jardino.co.uk/default.htm

Firm's called 'Jardino' and they're based at Manningtree in Essex (though I'm sure there'll be dealers closer to you).

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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 11:49:59 (EST)
From: salam
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Re: *** IMPORTANT MESSAGE FOR GERRY OR PAT
Message:
you can hire a small generator.
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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 11:14:07 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: I'll do it John [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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