Ex-Premie Forum 7 Archive
From: Nov 13, 2001 To: Nov 18, 2001 Page: 4 of: 5


Philly Mole -:- Event with M Monday in Philadelphia -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 21:54:22 (EST)
__ AJW -:- Shouldn't it be 'Non-Event'? (nt) -:- Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 05:38:58 (EST)
__ Philly Billy -:- Re: Event with M Monday in Philadelphia -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 14:59:07 (EST)
__ __ Philly Mole -:- Event details -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 15:52:16 (EST)
__ __ __ Philly Billy -:- Re: Event details -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 15:57:40 (EST)
__ __ __ __ bill -:- Maybe I should not interfere with your plans? [nt] -:- Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 14:24:36 (EST)
__ Tonette -:- Where's my phone tree message! -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 21:59:50 (EST)
__ __ Cynthia -:- It's time for him to go... -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 13:17:13 (EST)
__ __ __ Tonette -:- Oh, we did our our phone tree message! -:- Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 01:21:19 (EST)
__ __ __ FA janet's post -:- should be deleted - it is not funny! [nt] -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 14:54:01 (EST)
__ __ such -:- he lookin' 4 a taxi job w/ Bowlingji? [nt] -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 01:46:05 (EST)

Pullaver -:- Checklist -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 21:41:36 (EST)

Timmi -:- broadcast -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 21:28:12 (EST)
__ Tonette -:- That is so funny! -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 22:04:38 (EST)
__ Deborah -:- We have lice -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 21:31:02 (EST)
__ Timmi -:- And, by the way...... -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 21:29:48 (EST)
__ __ Tonette -:- A bad day? Never a bad day in Maharaji's world! -:- Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 01:51:33 (EST)
__ __ Moley -:- Hang on in there Timmi xx nt -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 13:25:31 (EST)

suchabanana -:- not a snowflake moves... -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 20:25:48 (EST)
__ St Jasper the Carrot -:- Keep your eye on the sparrow -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 20:47:55 (EST)
__ __ such -:- yep,the Mighty Sparrow satanic verses -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 00:02:06 (EST)
__ __ __ Fanabanana -:- LOL ^^^All fanabananas read^^^ [nt] -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 11:47:19 (EST)
__ __ __ St Jasper the Carrot -:- But it's a good price for sparrows NT -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 00:09:06 (EST)
__ __ __ __ such -:- unless,they're 14 carrot farthings -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 00:50:51 (EST)

Barry -:- Nothing lasts.(OT) -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 18:06:41 (EST)
__ Jim -:- Want to come to a meeting tonight? -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 20:19:59 (EST)
__ Barry -:- Sorry you're feeling in a shit hole -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 13:48:36 (EST)
__ __ Moley -:- Oops sorry Barry - that post was from me! -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 13:53:56 (EST)
__ PatD -:- working your ass off for min wage -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 20:26:12 (EST)
__ Selene -:- I don't want to get locked up -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 19:13:20 (EST)
__ __ Pat:C) -:- See you onAG, Barry -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 19:18:59 (EST)

Joe -:- My Hate Mail from 'Elan Vital' -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 14:56:16 (EST)
__ Richard -:- Re: My Hate Mail from 'Elan Vital' -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 16:06:45 (EST)
__ Ben Lurking -:- Re: My Hate Mail from 'Elan Vital' -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 12:04:15 (EST)
__ Auntie Eureeka -:- Really Joseph, have you nothing better to do? -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 23:47:16 (EST)
__ Tonette -:- I so much admire you Joe. -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 22:20:50 (EST)
__ salam -:- Re: My Hate Mail from 'Elan Vital' -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 20:48:39 (EST)
__ __ Joe -:- It the return address IS EV -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 12:25:19 (EST)
__ Zelda -:- PR? oh puleese -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 17:31:15 (EST)
__ Nigel -:- Good Grief! CAC-style reply.. -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 16:59:11 (EST)
__ __ Joe -:- It's like John MacGregor Says -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 17:34:29 (EST)
__ Joe -:- Here is my email that seemed to irritate EV -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 15:05:01 (EST)
__ __ Joe -:- My Response to 'Elan Vital' -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 15:39:08 (EST)
__ __ __ Joe -:- Another email to Elan Vital -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 18:59:36 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Good, Joe -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 19:37:58 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Re: Good, Joe... -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 13:04:38 (EST)

Joe -:- From the Guru Papers.... -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 14:44:22 (EST)
__ gerry -:- Re: From the Guru Papers.... -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 17:58:44 (EST)
__ such -:- totally 'deja rugu'! [nt] -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 17:34:39 (EST)

gerry -:- My Private Ashram -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 11:41:08 (EST)
__ Tonette -:- Yep, hit the nail on the head for me -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 22:42:57 (EST)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Good Rant, Tonette... [nt] -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 13:37:35 (EST)
__ suchabanana -:- premies' guilt trip vs. m.'s gilt trip [nt] -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 17:29:58 (EST)
__ Joe -:- Very common experience, I think -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 14:21:49 (EST)
__ Pat:C) -:- Re: My Private Ashram -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 13:40:12 (EST)
__ Jim -:- Yeah, that IS something -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 13:29:19 (EST)
__ Moley -:- Poisonous vulture - great phrase! -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 12:58:17 (EST)
__ __ Disculta -:- Premie ghosts -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 14:23:51 (EST)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Yes! -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 21:20:26 (EST)
__ __ __ Richard -:- Re: Premie ghosts -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 14:58:08 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Re: Premie ghosts -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 19:18:48 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Disculta -:- Mortuary Towers? (ot) -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 20:10:38 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Re: Mortuary Towers? (ot) -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 20:58:29 (EST)
__ __ __ Joe -:- Absolutely right, Disculta -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 14:26:38 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Suedoula -:- Re: Absolutely right, Disculta -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 16:33:31 (EST)

gerry -:- Big up to Pat C -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 11:30:41 (EST)
__ Richard -:- Re: Big up to Pat C -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 12:07:31 (EST)
__ __ Pat:C) -:- Thanks, guys -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 13:14:48 (EST)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- A Case of Vishnu's Revenge LOL! -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 14:10:38 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Deborah -:- A Case of Vishnu's Revenge LOL! [nt] -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 19:22:53 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Re: A Case of Vishnu's Revenge LOL! -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 14:22:47 (EST)

Cynthia -:- FAQ Page Under Contruction at EV Site -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 11:19:22 (EST)
__ Vicki -:- Empty FAQ page not empty anymore (nt) -:- Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 10:20:00 (EST)
__ Pat:C) -:- Press Kit also suspended [nt] -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 13:42:33 (EST)

Sir Dave -:- Nigel - virus on your site -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 07:35:49 (EST)
__ Nigel -:- hanks...can U try again?T -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 14:17:06 (EST)
__ __ Chuck S. -:- It;s still there... -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 20:36:32 (EST)
__ __ __ Nigel -:- No it's not...ulp! -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 05:52:46 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Chuck S. -:- You're in luck... -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 15:12:34 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- Phew - thanks, Chuck.. [nt] -:- Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 11:50:43 (EST)

Tonette -:- Donation-Mainly a question for the FA -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 01:06:32 (EST)
__ gerry -:- Re: Donation-Mainly a question for the FA -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 10:58:21 (EST)
__ __ Tonette -:- Thanks Gerry for all your work -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 22:29:50 (EST)
__ __ Deborah -:- Hi Gerry--advertising is good -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 19:38:41 (EST)
__ __ __ gerry -:- Re: Hi Gerry--advertising is good -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 19:55:46 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Re: Hi Gerry--advertising is good -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 20:06:04 (EST)
__ __ Joe -:- Gerry, thanks for all your good work.... -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 11:49:19 (EST)
__ __ __ gerry -:- You're welcome Joe -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 11:58:28 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Joe -:- A Question -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 12:09:01 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- from 'Webopedia' -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 12:20:30 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- WoW! Gerry... -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 12:01:21 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Gerry, yes. Pat? It's hard for me -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 13:41:42 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- A Question of Etiquette -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 17:45:26 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- I say that? -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 20:10:36 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Re: WoW! Gerry... -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 13:30:23 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ gErRy -:- ****************BEST OF**************** -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 18:00:13 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Re: ****************BEST OF**************** -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 21:58:31 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Re: ****************BEST OF**************** -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 22:19:48 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Re: ****************BEST OF**************** -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 22:29:52 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Chuck S. -:- Thank you Stoner, it's a very relevant link... -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 15:23:39 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Tonette -:- Oh no! No archiving? -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 02:20:56 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Tonette -:- There's no archiving? -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 02:24:24 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- At the original Anything Goes! -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 07:41:50 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Tonette -:- Thanks Stoner, I was worried for a second! nt -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 23:59:18 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Re: ****************BEST OF**************** -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 19:32:42 (EST)

Santa's helper -:- Help the economy,buy EV this year.. -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 00:29:19 (EST)
__ Zelda -:- discrimination!!! -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 02:01:10 (EST)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Virtual Warehouse Sale At Visions! -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 10:44:16 (EST)
__ __ __ S.H. -:- My p[ersonal favorite, Cynthia... -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 00:00:45 (EST)
__ __ __ Zelda -:- Re: Virtual Warehouse Sale At Visions! -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 15:34:06 (EST)
__ __ __ Joe -:- 'Generous' Offers -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 12:03:19 (EST)
__ __ __ __ It was probably a -:- 'paint by numbers' kit...|D [nt] -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 11:05:32 (EST)
__ __ __ Joe -:- -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 12:02:32 (EST)
__ __ __ Holy Roller -:- Re: Virtual Warehouse Sale At Visions! -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 11:17:09 (EST)

A Fan -:- Catweasel -:- Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 23:02:24 (EST)
__ Catweasel -:- May I thank my Producer... -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 05:49:43 (EST)
__ __ Catweasel -:- Hey Conlon!!! Some ghost? That Walks? -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 05:58:20 (EST)
__ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Jesus Christ, CW! -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 05:58:17 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Catweasel -:- Re: Jesus Christ, CW! -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 06:13:57 (EST)

Whiz, the Wizard -:- Catweasel's Diary -:- Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 22:52:03 (EST)
__ such -:- Catweasel's Diary,ah:kitty litter [nt] -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 17:10:37 (EST)

Pullaver -:- The Cult Observer -:- Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 21:30:39 (EST)

Pullaver -:- Cult Apologists, the phenomena of -:- Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 21:12:36 (EST)
__ Larkin -:- ...as I once put it... -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 14:26:01 (EST)
__ Pat:C) -:- CAC used the word ''apostate'' -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 01:28:23 (EST)
__ __ Joe -:- 'Apostate' FYI -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 11:33:48 (EST)
__ __ __ suchabanana -:- a prostate is a terrible thing to lose [nt] -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 17:08:15 (EST)
__ __ __ __ such -:- m: a prostrate is a terrible thing to lose [nt] -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 17:14:13 (EST)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- I'm a Heretic, too -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 11:44:03 (EST)
__ __ Pat, or learned it on this forum? nt -:- Re: CAC used the word ''apostate'' -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 08:49:07 (EST)
__ Pullaver -:- Re: Cult Apologists, the phenomena of -:- Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 21:38:06 (EST)
__ __ Francesca -:- EXCELLENT, excellent resources, thanks! [nt] -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 01:25:34 (EST)
__ __ Deborah -:- I've bookmarked this... -:- Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 22:57:52 (EST)
__ __ Jim -:- Thanks so much -:- Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 21:59:37 (EST)
__ __ __ Chuck S. -:- It IS where the CAC ... -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 04:48:19 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Knowlege was never a religion -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 05:02:43 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Letter writing campaingn -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 21:13:26 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Repost of Pat C -:- $$$$ Everyone Read $$$$ -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 19:48:18 (EST)

Interested Bystander -:- Ken Kelley, Richard Levine et al... -:- Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 20:12:36 (EST)
__ such -:- Jacques had some great out-takes -:- Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 22:36:33 (EST)
__ __ Biddleby Dop -:- Revenge of the Blanc Mange ... -:- Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 22:53:39 (EST)

Joe -:- Maharaji Cult Attack Websites -- Day 11 -:- Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 18:37:43 (EST)
__ Richard -:- Malicious porpoises?? -:- Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 23:09:52 (EST)
__ salam -:- Re: Maharaji Cult Attack Websites -- Day 11 -:- Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 19:31:21 (EST)
__ Marianne -:- Rely on false info at your legal peril -:- Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 19:29:10 (EST)
__ __ Tonette -:- Voice of support. -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 01:00:38 (EST)
__ __ salam -:- Re: Rely on false info at your legal peril -:- Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 19:33:21 (EST)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- Re: Rely on false info at your legal peril -:- Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 19:39:28 (EST)

Searcher -:- Songwriter apologises -:- Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 17:34:00 (EST)
__ such -:- glass houses: prem song plagiarism: 'He's Here -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 20:13:36 (EST)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Such...barf bag please... -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 10:35:08 (EST)
__ __ __ such -:- yeah, that was a grossout -:- Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 23:11:21 (EST)
__ Richard -:- Another spoof, me thinks -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 13:45:43 (EST)
__ Richard -:- Re: Songwriter apologises -:- Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 19:14:30 (EST)
__ such -:- more retractions + revisionism -:- Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 19:13:49 (EST)
__ __ Cynthia -:- I, too, apologize... -:- Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 19:35:58 (EST)
__ __ __ Francesca -:- Yes, I had my tunes -:- Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 20:25:20 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Teen Beat Magazine -:- JIVA -:- Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 21:55:37 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Tonette -:- One of the members posted here -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 01:19:11 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Francesca -:- Re: JIVA -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 00:30:39 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ such -:- remember the maha chant they did? -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 16:57:18 (EST)
__ __ __ Michael McDonald -:- I'd also like to apologise -:- Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 19:53:08 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Re: I'd also like to apologise -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 11:54:22 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Bryn -:- Amazing! Thanks. -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 09:11:51 (EST)
__ Francesca -:- Songwriters, and they were not 'he' -:- Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 18:58:38 (EST)
__ __ Hey Francesca -:- What is the story with One Foundation? -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 01:25:41 (EST)
__ __ __ Vicki -:- Re: What is the story with One Foundation? -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 09:04:45 (EST)
__ __ __ __ But only if.... -:- Re: What is the story with One Foundation? -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 09:11:00 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Wow! -:- Re: What is the story with One Foundation??? -:- Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 09:16:47 (EST)
__ gerry -:- Well that explains it all... -:- Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 18:45:02 (EST)


Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 21:54:22 (EST)
From: Philly Mole
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Event with M Monday in Philadelphia
Message:
Sources in Philadelphia say that M will be speaking in the Philadelphia area this Monday from 5 to 7 pm. This event is for Philly and DC area premies only.

Philly Cheese Mole

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Date: Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 05:38:58 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Philly Mole
Subject: Shouldn't it be 'Non-Event'? (nt)
Message:
Oh Monday Monday...
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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 14:59:07 (EST)
From: Philly Billy
Email: None
To: Philly Mole
Subject: Re: Event with M Monday in Philadelphia
Message:
Could'nt confirm your post, but have notified a few interested journalists to be on stand by, incase it does occur. We may be able to get some print on the event.
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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 15:52:16 (EST)
From: Philly Mole
Email: None
To: Philly Billy
Subject: Event details
Message:
Word from an invitee is that it's going to be held at:
Drexelbrook Wedding and Catering facility in Drexel Hill, PA.
(directions at drexelbrookcatering.com).
There's an $85.00 donation requested per person. W O W ! ! ! ! ! !

Philly Mole, who just loves those little sandwiches and punch they serve at weddings and cult gatherings

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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 15:57:40 (EST)
From: Philly Billy
Email: None
To: Philly Mole
Subject: Re: Event details
Message:
Thanks, I'm on it.
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Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 14:24:36 (EST)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Philly Billy
Subject: Maybe I should not interfere with your plans? [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 21:59:50 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Philly Mole
Subject: Where's my phone tree message!
Message:
Hey, am I now no longer on the 'list'?

Gee, what brings him to this neck of the woods?
Perhaps we are a group of premies that actually have good paying jobs for the most part? Or was he recently in NY meeting with his high priced lawyers and stock broker?

Pure speculation but he isn't on the East coast for nothing.

Tonette

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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 13:17:13 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: It's time for him to go...
Message:
Philly? What's in Philly for him?

AND, how long can he keep up his act?

Premies only? Hope it's not a catharsis, (excuse me) training session.

Jeezum Crow, m's getting creepier by the minute.

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Date: Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 01:21:19 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Oh, we did our our phone tree message!
Message:
Damn! My daughter answered the phone, asked who's calling per instructions, and guess what? THEY HUNG UP!!!!!! No kidding. What's with that?
Anyway, the redial feature got me through.

Tonette

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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 14:54:01 (EST)
From: FA janet's post
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: should be deleted - it is not funny! [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 01:46:05 (EST)
From: such
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: he lookin' 4 a taxi job w/ Bowlingji? [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 21:41:36 (EST)
From: Pullaver
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Checklist
Message:
Marcia Rudin, a popular anti-cult writer and one of the founders of the American Family Foundation (AFF) sponsor of the 'Cult Observer' - see below has listed fourteen commonly accepted characteristics of a cult. Familiar? My apologies if this list has been posted before:

1. Members swear total allegiance to an all-powerful leader who they believe to be the Messiah.

2. Rational thought is discouraged or forbidden.

3. The cult's recruitment techniques are often deceptive.

4. The cult weakens the follower psychologically by making him or her depend upon the group to solve his or her problems.

5. The cults manipulate guilt to their advantage.

6. The cult leader makes all the career and life decision of the members.

7. Cults exist only for their own material survival and make false promises to work to improve society.

8. Cult members often work fulltime for the group for little or no pay.

9. Cult members are isolated from the outside world and any reality testing it could provide.

10. Cults are antiwoman, antichild, and antifamily.

11. Many cults are apocalyptic and believe themselves to be the remnant who will survive the soon-approaching end of the world.

12. Many cults follow an 'ends justify the means' philosophy.

13. Cults, particularly in regard to their finances, are shrouded in secrecy.

14. There is frequently an aura of or potential for violence around cults.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 21:28:12 (EST)
From: Timmi
Email: timmi56@yahoo.com
To: All
Subject: broadcast
Message:
Rawat started tonight's broadcast with 'We have life.' Jeez.......what kind of brain trust thought that one up? I'm dying here, folks. Somebody throw me a lifeline!
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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 22:04:38 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Timmi
Subject: That is so funny!
Message:
What an old has been he's becoming. Not an original thought in his head it seems.

Oh, head's up! Incoming life preserver, grab a hold.

Tonette

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 21:31:02 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Timmi
Subject: We have lice
Message:
Now, that's a attention grabber. Maha is such an old fart. He can't even deliver Satsang.
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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 21:29:48 (EST)
From: Timmi
Email: None
To: Timmi
Subject: And, by the way......
Message:
Sorry, everyone, for whining. Been a bad day. Thanks to all of you for being 'out there' somewhere for me to say honest things like the above to.
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Date: Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 01:51:33 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Timmi
Subject: A bad day? Never a bad day in Maharaji's world!
Message:
You are a BAD, BAD student. There is no such thing as a bad day if you are in contact with me. I told you to keep in touch! You are not meditating enough! Don't you realize what I showed you? Aren't you feeling your heart? It's impossible that you are having a bad day after what I've GIVEN you, you ungrateful bitch. By the way, are you blonde? Maybe I could show you how to apologize correctly.

And if I ever catch you here again on this lying, ungrateful forum, this place which lacks all gratitude towards me, I'll see to it that you have an endless number of bad days. You'll rot like a vegetable, or something like that.

Did I ask you if you are blonde?

Your MASTER! Maharaji

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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 13:25:31 (EST)
From: Moley
Email: moldy_warp@hotmail.com
To: Timmi
Subject: Hang on in there Timmi xx nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 20:25:48 (EST)
From: suchabanana
Email: banana@walden_pond.com
To: All
Subject: not a snowflake moves...
Message:
'Nature is full of genius, full of the divinity;
so that not a snowflake escapes its fashioning hand.'
-- Henry David Thoreau [1817-1862]
[ Page Link ]
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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 20:47:55 (EST)
From: St Jasper the Carrot
Email: None
To: suchabanana
Subject: Keep your eye on the sparrow
Message:
Matt.10

1.[29] Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.
2.[31] Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows.

Luke.12

1.[6] Are not five sparrows sold for two farthings, and not one of them is forgotten before God?
2.[7] But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows.

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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 00:02:06 (EST)
From: such
Email: banana@free_at_last.org
To: St Jasper the Carrot
Subject: yep,the Mighty Sparrow satanic verses
Message:
Matt.10

1.[29] Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.
2.[31] Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows.

Luke.12

1.[6] Are not five sparrows sold for two farthings, and not one of them is forgotten before God?
2.[7] But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows.


---

Notice how the quoted scriptural holy words vary from one latter-day Roman Empire-sanctified hearsay gospel scribe-saint to another latter-day hearsay sanctimonious cult scribe, 2 generations and thousands of 3rd-hand illiterate hearsay mouths removed from the actual events and persons. Close, but no banana. NO, paraphrased stories passed along, whether oral or written, are NOT the holy infallible Word of God [as some would have us believe].

The New Testament as credible history, gospel and revelation is full of bunk - rife with forgeries, revisions, omissions, utter fabrications, contradictions, mistranslations, scriptural/religious plagiarism and imitation, editing, insertions, superstition, and deliberate wholesale deletions by the Roman Empire Church and its minions - and still continuing to spiral out of control in idolatrous Christianity personality-god cults everywhere. Holy Virgin Mother of Osiris, er, Mithras!!

the Matt and Luke examples above remind me of the revealing alleged 'satanic verses' of the Koran -- more bunk. the scribe kept changing Mohammed's words [mo was illiterate], words which were supposedly direct from the archangel Gabriel -- recite, indeed! bunk!

cut off the right hand of a thief - bunk! stone married adulterers to death - bunk! kill the infidels and unbelievers! bunk! No 'archangel' ever told that dufus Mo to recite that shit. Oh, He heard voices -- just like delusional miragey, or Son of Sam, and other certifiable schizos and psychopaths. Speaking of Moe, the Taliban remind me of The Three Stooges' darker alter-egos.

yeah, Scriptures are like fractured fairy tales. It's probably no coincidence that Joseph Smith's invented Mormon angel was a Moron[i], too. Ancient Hebrew desert tribal-inspired polygamy and patriarchy for dudes -- how convenient! Hey, what do Mormons, Islam, and Hebrew scriptures have in common? polygamy, patriarchy, and sanctified discrimination [and even killing] of cult outsiders. Even today in the West, if you're a woman, try becoming a rabbi in Israel! Forgit it! Or, how 'bout Hinduism -- the caste system! Now, How much more bleepin' spiritual can you get!

Hindu/Vedic creationist scriptures are like primeval Indo-Tolkien fantasy slush, too. Indra, Ganesh, the whole pantheon of personalities -- just like Zeus, Hermes, Hera. The tooth fairy has more substance than Hanuman! talk about dropping rugu acid and going to fantasyland! In India, hundreds of millions of people still actually believe that nonsense -- no shit! [oh yeah, i forgot, it's just allegorical, according to the modern Hindu apologist revisionists.]

haha

speaking of that illiterate killer Mohammed, he was a total failure until he got success and status by marrying a wealthy, prominent widow. Islam wouldn't have existed were it not for a successful WOMAN -- so those murderous Taleban imbeciles are chock full of camel dung.

Islam's socialized and government-enforced rote suppression of women throughout most of the Middle East is despicable. regimes and states run by a bunch of ruthless, piggish despotic morons still living in the dark ages -- 630 C.E. Guess they never heard of Americanized Lorena Bobbit - who didn't get her sexual satisfaction mach schnell when she demanded it! hmmmm... On second thought, maybe those chauvinist pig Muslim fundumbmentalist countries have a valid point... hahahahaha f
---
'em all, I say!

the final solution: get all the Islamic, Zionist, Christian, Hindu, and commie nazi fundumbmentalists together in Antarctica and let 'em just kill each other - get it over with. after all, for thousands of years, they've killed so many people in the name of religions [and then marxism aka utopian socialism -- like Pol Pot's Utopia, Mao's utopia, Stalin's gulag utopia, etc etc etc] - those religions and philosophies have forfeited their right to exist ever again. f
---
organized religion and govt autocracies. TAX all churches -- they're just another business [+ tax shelter] for somebody, after all, subjecting and ripping people off. make 'em accountable, fer chrissakes. like, Kill a commie for Christ, awweddy! hohoho

yeah, not a leaf moves without the wind blowing. and, it's not by the methane that comes out of miragey's mouth, either.

so, F
---
you, you greedy deceitful Rawat clan, for taking thousands of sincere trusting aspiring people and jerking them around with your greedy materialist massa rugu doggie servitude bullshit and twisted bhakti yoga dogma masquerading as non-dogma!

'have you seen the internet? they have this thing called flaming. the other day I logged on, and these people were chatting and one person just typed a bad word beginning with 'f' over and over...' -marji

fffffffffffffffffffff you, miragey and your f
---
ing idiot gestapo monitors and criminal hackers with rotting shit fer brains! hahahaha

boy, that sure felt gooooood! better than meditation.
yeah, here's our lil mantra for you to meditate on, miragey [and yer diabolical minions]: ffffffffffffffffffffffff...

Now, 'show me the money!' inquiring minds wanna know -- where did it all go -- the $100+ million? down a rugu's golden potty seat. yep, rugu sure put the SPIT into SPIriTuality - cause his personality cult is truly phlegmbuoyant. Our very own former OMassa bin L.A.den.

So, Take your bogus rugu worship crap and Get the F
---
out of our countries, Rawrats! Go back to bleepin' superstitious N. India, fer cryin out lard - y'know, that country you're always bitching about, like a whiny spoiled lil Napoleon brat rugu. ooh, they got mosquitoes dere. whine, whine. ooh, they don't have air-conditioning, except at the residence. whine, whine. ooh, they don't have the comforts of your 28,000 square foot 'dilapidated bungalow' in Malibu. you poor lil Lard rugu. what a materialist rotted cwybaby you are, mr. rugu massa! Dude-- Git a real bleepin' job, dickhead -- like making fries at MacDonald's, or working at 7-11 like the other Indian immigrants, or driving a taxicab like yer big bro Bhole ji. you wanna learn the Real meaning of humility, Rawrat? I don't think so! hahaha Yeah, how about cleaning the porto-potties at yer own outdoor events, yerself, dude? hahaha!

Hey, MAHARAJI, do you know how many thousands of times we prostrated on the floor [or ground] to you or your ugly bleeping photos [or to your f
---
ed up feuding rotten vegetable family]? Well, It's time for YOU, Lardo, to git on yer own f
---
in' knees and fess up, apologize publicly, and beg and crawl -- like the diabolical dog you are -- for some undeserved forgiveness from all the people you and your cult have ever f
---
ed over and lied to, douchebag.

LOL

btw, Peace and lentils,

har har har, Lard overboard...

PS btw, ***** = ****, a dirty word here

we don't need no stinkin' Smartcards! btw, remember, marji said HE never uses da plastic -- you bloody f
---
in' hypocrite! hehehehe

lastly, A lil cult secret revealed*********: you wanna know the REAL reason why marji likes cash? because it's liquid capital, it's NOT traceable income/personal expenses! Plastic [and cheques] leave a trail. go figure... Save us from our SEVAs, indeed!

ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffautocratic spirituality jagruguphiles and totalitarian political cults!

it's overdue: Time to think for ourselves, BE ourselves, assert our own personal space and humanity, and push away cult-think, peer/group pressure, pushy mentalities, and those who invade or trample on the sanctity of our inner beings and individuality as beings with an equal right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Equal. no Lards, no Massa, no ritualized bowing and scraping to another person like guilt-consumed and degraded servile Stepin Fetchits ever f
---
in' again. 'Yes, massa, I's comin'.' NO! 'Whatever you say, massa Prem.' NO! 'The servant is the Master's dog - Shri Hans.' NO!! 'Dog wants to run, to be free...But Master pulls on chain.' NO,NO,NO!! Never bleepin' again!!!

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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 11:47:19 (EST)
From: Fanabanana
Email: None
To: such
Subject: LOL ^^^All fanabananas read^^^ [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 00:09:06 (EST)
From: St Jasper the Carrot
Email: None
To: such
Subject: But it's a good price for sparrows NT
Message:
xxxx
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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 00:50:51 (EST)
From: such
Email: banana@zap_comix.com
To: St Jasper the Carrot
Subject: unless,they're 14 carrot farthings
Message:
that is, of course, if you like sparrows. [was that fer a holy biblical circumcised caged pet, or fer kosher food fur sylvester da cat?]

In dat garden I tend, I do like 24 carrot spare rows, btw.

Now, Orange you glad we got a sense of humour 'round here?!

ok, now where's dat gwatitude, dat appweciation? dat dat dat dat... hohoho dat unbearable lightness of be-in...

so, U betta watch out, U betta knot cwy, u betta knot shout, eye m tellin' u y, sandy claws is cumin ta town...

PS btw, I don't keep caged birds, fish, or other animal pets [or eat faces or fetuses]. But most of the year, I do have songbirds in the trees around me. when sparrows are free, they sing so happily. imho, zoos and circuses are life imprisonment for innocent animals. i know how the caged bird sings -- sadly, alas.

Several months ago, I think I discovered where the inspiration for Beethoven's 5th Symphony came from. I heard a bunch of birds singing repeating choruses of DA-DA-DA-DAHH, DA-DA-DA-DAHHHHH, back and forth, and then in harmonies, like an orchestra section. Then, I imitated them, and they sang along with me for about 10 minutes. incredible! Art imitating Nature. like poems with snowflake imagery...

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 18:06:41 (EST)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Nothing lasts.(OT)
Message:
I am in the worst shit hole of a place in my life right now. I can't seem to hold a job, my girly and I are fighting all the fucking time about money. I fucking hate money you know. Debora from the forum tells me to make a friend of money. I also know of the old eastern saying 'I do not want what you do not have.'

How do you make friends with money?
How do you stop your desire to draw the things you want closer to you.

I need to understand how.
Or is it simply working your ass off for min wage to no end. In shit hard jobs that have no meaning etc. etc. If I have any friends here,
I'd sure like to hear about your bouts with this same issue.

thanks for listening.........and No! I don't really give a fart about the war.

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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 20:19:59 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: Want to come to a meeting tonight?
Message:
Barry,

Life in the world is hard. But that's just a blessing, don't you know? After all, it's easier for a rich man to screw a camel than it is an angel. All the angels I know like the bad boys. So waht can you do? See?

Anyway, we're having a meeting tonight at the Y. 7:30. A very special guy, a mahatma from India, will be speaking. So why don't you come and we can talk about things after? Really, Barry, this is all so beautiful.....

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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 13:48:36 (EST)
From: Barry
Email: moldy_warp@hotmail.com
To: Barry
Subject: Sorry you're feeling in a shit hole
Message:
I don't really know you, so apologies if all this advice is way off beam..... but here goes....
I've spent most of my adult life with money struggles. Not to mention having arguments with spouse about money for bloody years - endless cyclical ones that you never really resolve. You have my total sympathy... but that's worse than useless by itself, I guess. I've read self-help books galore ... Shakti Gawain's Creative Visualisation springs to mind.... Don't bother with any of that new-age crap for a start! The only self help book I've got time for at all is ....
Life Strategies by Phillip C McGraw... you can catch him on Oprah Winfrey a lot if you can't afford the book (10 quid here)
This book contributed in a small way to me getting out of a very large hole earlier this year.

If you don't know what work you can do, stick at, and relatively enjoy... then the career book What Colour is My Parachute is brilliant.

Enuff of books.... you probably need to find a way of stopping the arguments as all the bad emotions you feel after one badly get in the way of the sort of head space you need to see what to do next... (I say this only cos I failed miserably to see this for years).

Training? Possible, if you can afford even direr poverty whilst you're doing it, and you are not going to be age-discriminated against when you qualified for something (TShirt I am wearing at the mo!!!!)...
Bollocks to all that advice really... keep aS MUCH LOVE IN YER LIFE AS YOU CAN, (oops caps, didn't mean to shout)and say when things go wrong (I'm quoting some film director here who's take was spolied by rain).... 'That's a blessing in disguise' (you just don't know what blessing yet!!!)
Love
Moley (Email me if you like)xx

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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 13:53:56 (EST)
From: Moley
Email: moldy_warp@hotmail.com
To: Barry
Subject: Oops sorry Barry - that post was from me!
Message:
Sorry - brain malfunction due to having fluey bug thing.
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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 20:26:12 (EST)
From: PatD
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: working your ass off for min wage
Message:
That's how you get money,unless you've got lady luck sitting next to you.

All the best ; Pat Dorrity.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 19:13:20 (EST)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: I don't want to get locked up
Message:
It's no fun to be locked up or so I have been told.
But I'll post to you on AG Too.
I have had a lot of experiences with this and do have ideas.
Take heart you don't have anthrax and are not in a cult.
See ya over yonder.
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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 19:18:59 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: pdconlon@hotmail.com
To: Selene
Subject: See you onAG, Barry
Message:
I've been there too several times. The worst part is having no friends, being a stranger in a strange land. You can email me too if you want.
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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 14:56:16 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: All
Subject: My Hate Mail from 'Elan Vital'
Message:
An anonymous person at Elan Vital, just sent me the following. I had sent them an email complaining that followers of Maharaji had undertaken criminal conduct in setting up attack websites against me and others. Here is 'Elan Vital's response:

Dear Mr. Whalen:

We have received your letter dated November 6, 2001.

We are pleased that you appear to no longer wish to be associated with the defamatory and morally repugnant material associated with extreme
'anti-Maharaji' web sites, as it should not be surprising when gratuitous hate is recognized and identified for what it is.

As you are well aware, Maharaji, Elan Vital and the persons following Maharaji's teachings are the target of an ongoing, well-documented,
relentless campaign of vicious smear, misrepresentation, intimidation,harassment and incitation to hate led by persons posting on
ex-premie.org and other similar sites.

However, in spite of being the target of such campaign, Elan Vital (which does not have a membership system) and Maharaji have chosen to
steadfastly refrain from reacting. Moreover, and most important, please be advised we have no knowledge or information as to the identity or
location of the person(s) who may be responsible for the publication(s) of which you complain. Any attempt to claim otherwise is plainly
unfounded, frivolous, meritless, and sanctionable.

Truly,

ELAN VITAL

Hey guys, they know we exist, that's for sure. It's the first time I have seen 'Elan Vital' officially mention EPO's existence. There is at least some kind of victory there. But I'm sorry to say, Elan Vital once again publicly approves of those criminal attack websites, when it says they are just ''recognize gratuitous hate for what it is.'

They also do not respond to my observation that if Maharaji didn't want those websites to exist, they wouldn't. They choose to characterize this as having "chosen steadfastly [to]refrain from reacting." How noble of him to show such restraint.

Although 'Elan Vital' claims to have no 'membership system' they don't actually say they don't have members. Hey, premies, see what organization you belong to? Are you proud?

Note to EV monitors: I am not a paralegal or a lawyer. Be sure to correct that in my file.

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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 16:06:45 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: My Hate Mail from 'Elan Vital'
Message:
Am I imagining this or are they condoning your / our victimization because they think others have done the same to M and EV? Interesting ethical logic.

Good progress, Joe in even getting a response.

Richard

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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 12:04:15 (EST)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: My Hate Mail from 'Elan Vital'
Message:
Seems to me if they have no membership system and that letter came on their letterhead in one of thier envelopes or came from a server in their office with a valid EV return address then a copy should be forwarded to the IRS requesting review of their church status. That application may have made different claims and it seems as they may no longer qualify.
Nothing would hurt more than having to pay back taxes and imagine all the porr premies who claimed chairitable deductions.
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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 23:47:16 (EST)
From: Auntie Eureeka
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Really Joseph, have you nothing better to do?
Message:
Is this how you spend your precious time, squandering your precious breath that my sister Erika's Master speaks so eloquently about?
Do I need to remind you that the good people of Elan Vital are hardworking volunteers who might be paid, to keep their not for profit status so that more participation forms will find their way into the hands of contributing premies who are not members, just participants, in the church registered non religious organization to facilitate my sister's Master's works and pilot training?

Shame on you Joseph, a good boy like you should be pursuing more worthwhile causes, like rabbit birth control in Australia so my sister's Master won't have to stay awake at night worrying about the pestie rodents destroying His wildlife refuge. Pull up your bootstraps Joseph.
-Auntie Eureeka

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 22:20:50 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: I so much admire you Joe.
Message:
People like you who put their money where their mouth is are going to be/are instrumental in bringing M and his cult to light.

I applaude you and many others here.

Right on but don't let it get to you too much. About the only thing I have to offer is a few inane posts and a few dollars to keep the forum up and running.

Bless you, Tonette

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 20:48:39 (EST)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: My Hate Mail from 'Elan Vital'
Message:
If the email is anonymous, how do you know it came from EV? anyone could have sent it to you.
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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 12:25:19 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: It the return address IS EV
Message:
The return address is the same one I sent my email to. PR@elanvital.org

So, it either IS Elan Vital, or somebody emailing from Elan Vital's headquarters. The fact that the writer feels it is necessary to reamin anonymous says a lot about the condition of that organization, as well as the people still in it.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 17:31:15 (EST)
From: Zelda
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: PR? oh puleese
Message:
What elementary school level PR. The department must be at the non hans jayanti.
Perhaps they are using the Logical Fallacies Index since it is laced with manipulations.

This sentence is supposed to make you pause and reflect :

'We are pleased that you appear to no longer wish to be associated with the defamatory and morally repugnant material associated with extreme 'anti-Maharaji' web sites, as ''it should not be surprising when gratuitous hate is recognized and identified for what it is.''

And this is supposed to make you realize that they are the victim;

'As you are well aware, Maharaji, Elan Vital and the persons following Maharaji's teachings are the target of an ongoing, well-documented, relentless campaign of vicious smear, misrepresentation, intimidation,harassment and incitation to hate led by persons posting on ex-premie.org and other similar sites.'

And by 'steadfastly refraining from reacting-' they are absolved of wrongdoing because CAC can be their defenders.
I mean really, what organisation without membership can control what the public will do???

The fact that it was sent by an anonymous person is SO PROFESSIONAL!!

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 16:59:11 (EST)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Good Grief! CAC-style reply..
Message:
Are their PR people on holiday? I can't quite believe that even the angriest higher-ups in EV could sanction such a prickly, snarly reponse to your politely-worded and articulate email, Joe.

How would (or, will, rather) it look in the press, or enshrined on EPO forever? Did this anonymous scribe-with-attitude even consider the damage he/she might be doing? Was there approval from Chairman Moon-face?

Methinks they are well and truly losing it.. (along with the bank-transfers...)

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 17:34:29 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: It's like John MacGregor Says
Message:
Elan Vital has a commandment that anything in writing is permanent. That is probably true, seeing as I still have Divine Times from the 70s.
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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 15:05:01 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Here is my email that seemed to irritate EV
Message:
November 6, 2001

Dear Elan Vital Board of Directors and Elan Vital Public Relations Department:

Re: Further Attacks Against me by Your Members

You may recall that I complained to your organization in August, 2001, when some of your members set up an attack website against me and others called 'stopcyberstalkers.' In the past few days, five new such attack sites have appeared on the Intenet. I have complained to the servers and three of those websites were eventually removed. However, two of those sites remain.

One is at www.powow.com/right2hate. That site lists ex-premie.org with a bunch of 'hate' sites, including neo-nazi, Anti-Semitic, Anti-Christian, and Anti-Gay sites. In the section of the 'anti-Maharaji' sites, six individuals are listed. The site is vicious, and associates me with such hate groups. This is both libelous and defamatory to me.

The second site is http://user.netomia.com/HaltOnLineABuse/ and on that site I am listed, along with the name of my employer, and I am accused of various criminal activities. The accusations are false and defamatory. This site specifically refers to Elan Vital and is defending your organization. It also provides a link to the above website as 'proof' of my 'hate group' activities.

The purpose of this email is to demand that Elan Vital cease any involvement it may have in these criminal and illegal websites, take a public position on behalf of your organization and Mr. Rawat that it opposes such activities, and immediately contact the servers for those websites and ask that they be removed. This would conceivably have some impact as Elan Vital is specifically mentioned in those sites.

Both Elan Vital and Mr. Rawat have moral obligations to take such actions, to counteract the illegal and very damaging activities of your members. Since these kinds of attacks by followers of Maharaji appear to now be chronic, as well as illegal, activity, Mr. Rawat, more than ever, must make a public statement saying he does not approve of such actions, of he will be seen by his fanatical followers as having been given his tacit approval.

You may contact me at the above email address, or call me at___________. I look forward to your prompt response.

Joe Whalen
San Francisco, California

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 15:39:08 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: My Response to 'Elan Vital'
Message:
November 15, 2001

Dear Anonymous Person Writing as 'Elan Vital:'

Thank you for your response to my email, the tone of which is not appreciated.

I note that while you claim Elan Vital and Maharaji have decided to refrain from responding to criticisms posted about them on the internet, which is of course, their choice, you do not respond to my request that Elan Vital and Maharaji take a public position about Maharaji's followers setting up websites, much in the same way Scientology does, to attack Maharaji's former followers.

Although I understand that the persons who carried out these nefarious actions cannot appear on membership lists Elan Vital does not have, I wondered if Maharaji and Elan Vital are indeed rejecting any attempts to stop the abuse Maharaji's followers are inflicting from continuing.

Also you mention that 'we' have no knowledge or information as to the identity or location of the persons who prepared those websites. I would like to ask to whom 'we' refers? Does it refer to you personally, whoever you are, to 'Elan Vital' the 'non-membership' organization, and/or to Prem Pal Singh Rawat (aka Maharaji)? Are you saying that Mr. Rawat, for example has no such knowledge? I would appreciate confirmation of this.

I am also forced to take issue with your extremely inaccurate characterization of some kind of 'campaign' involving ex-premie.org. Please be advised that Ex-Premie.Org has no membership lists, has no members, and is nothing more than a website and forum on which anyone, no matter what their views of Elan Vital or Maharaji may contribute, comment, correct errors, add information, etc. While it is true that the vast majority of people who post there are former followers of Maharaji, many of whom are critical of him and his behavior over the years, there are also quite a number of Maharaji's current followers who participate there as well.

Moreover, that website is quite open to Elan Vital or Maharaji, to correct any inaccurate information contained on that website. While everyone is entitled to their own opinions on this and any other subject, it is by far the information that has been compiled on that website that is the most influential, and it is always open to correction.

Thank you once again, for your concern, but I am sure you can see, based on the nasty tone of your email, why I would doubt your professed concern about me and whom I choose to be associated.

I look forward to your response to my outstanding questions.

Very Truly Yours,

Joseph Whalen

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 18:59:36 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Another email to Elan Vital
Message:
November 15, 2001

Dear Elan Vital:

I would like to write to applaud your removal of the 'Frequently Asked Questions' section of your website. As a former employee of Elan Vital, and a former follower of Maharaji, I found it personally troubling that those answers severely mischaracterized events in the past, events which were very much a part of my life. Let me just provide two examples:

The sections on Maharaji's ashrams, where I lived for almost 9 years, were particularly offensive, claiming that they existed for the purpose of protecting us from 'drug culture.'

As a second example in light of the voluminous publications that remain in circulation, showing that Maharaji did indeed claim to be the living incarnation of God, is the section of the FAQs in which that is flatly denied. This was also offensive, and really quite embarrassing for current and former followers of Maharaji alike, who were followers of his in the 70s and 80s.

Thank you once again,

Joseph Whalen
San Francisco, California
(Premie/PWk/Student of Maharaji, 1973-1983)

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 19:37:58 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Good, Joe
Message:
Either EV and M are regrouping and updating their rewrite of our history or the cult is falling apart. That letter to you from an anonymous non-member of the non-cult non-religious church sure sounds like the work of a loose cannon - like CAC in fact. Of course it could be written by a paid cult apologist.
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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 13:04:38 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: Good, Joe...
Message:
Hi Joe,

What a stupid letter from EV! No system of membership? Then what the hell are SmartCards? This is an admission that they cannot take back!

The first paragraph of the letter to you is also very weird. I had to read it a couple of times. Hmmm...maybe Maharaji himself is behind the CAC sites. Maybe he wrote that email himself. I wouldn't put it past him.

Based on what John wrote about the training sessions, I now believe Maharaji is capable of doing anything to save his own ass.

But, he's bringing himself down. Anyone know where the hell in the world he is right now? Amaroo? India? Malibu?

You're brave Joe...Kudos to you...

Cynthia

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 14:44:22 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: All
Subject: From the Guru Papers....
Message:
The following is from that great book, The Guru Papers , page 57. Any of this sound familiar?:

It is not at all unusual to be in an authoritarian/cult relationship and not know it. In fact, knowing it can interfere with surrender. Any of the following are strong indications of belonging to an authoritarian/cult group:

1. No deviation from the party line is allowed. Anyone who has thoughts or feelings contrary to the accepted perspective is made to feel wrong or bad for having them.

2. Whatever the authority does is regarded as perfect or right. Thus behaviors that would be questioned in others are made to seem different and proper.

3. One trusts that the leader or others in the group know what’s best.

4. It is difficult to communicate with anyone not in the group.

5. One finds oneself defending actions of the leader (or other members) without having firsthand knowledge of what occurred.

[Erika, David and Mitch, please note.]

6. At times one is confused and fearful without knowing why. This is a sign that doubts are being repressed.'

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 17:58:44 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: From the Guru Papers....
Message:
4. It is difficult to communicate with anyone not in the group.

I'd amend this one to say 'It's difficult to communicate anything about Maharaji with anyone not in the group.

What I see are a lot of talented and smart people like us, who have this terrible blind spot. Laaaawwwwwwwdddddd, Let my people go!!!

gerry feeling like he could part the red sea today

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 17:34:39 (EST)
From: such
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: totally 'deja rugu'! [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 11:41:08 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: All
Subject: My Private Ashram
Message:
Sometimes people ask me why I'm so involved in the ex-premie movement, when I spent a mere year or so in the cult, nine months of it in ashrams.

Well, the truth is, I never had much luck with meditation and I rarely felt any affection for the Tubby One.

Here's the kicker: I spent most of my twenties wondering aimlessly around like some wounded sadhu thinking I'd really blown it with the Living Lord of Our Age. I was a total failure at meditation and devotion. The worst kind of unworthy failure.

I felt because of this, life really wasn't worth living and I was just waiting out my time for another reincarnation whereby I might do better.

Great philosphy and attitude. Thanks Rawat, you poisonous vulture.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 22:42:57 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Yep, hit the nail on the head for me
Message:
I never lived in the ashram fortunately. I was married to a premie now an ex thanks to this forum.

I spent many years wondering and trying to figure out what exactly Maharaji was and is. It wasn't until I came to this forum and EPO that I saw what EV had so tried to hide for many, many years.

I've coined a term for what transpired with M. He spiritually raped me the mother fucker. And he is the worst sort of parasite. He can burrow into your heart and eat his way out from the inside. He is a liar, a con, and frankly, is a poor excuse for a human being. But I did not lose nearly anywhere close than most premies. Lucky, I guess, but until M at least attempts to make ammends is he shit in my book.

M owes alot of people and it's time he paid.

Just my rant, Tonette

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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 13:37:35 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: Good Rant, Tonette... [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 17:29:58 (EST)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: premies' guilt trip vs. m.'s gilt trip [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 14:21:49 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Very common experience, I think
Message:
I think there are still lots of people out there, who left Maharaji at some point, but have never made the break, still feeling guilty on some level that they couldn't cut it. Maybe they even think, maybe, they will go back at some point.

We have seen quite a number of people who held on to guilt or whatever, and only made the break after finding EPO (or maybe a good therapist), even though they don't practice knowledge, go to "events" or "participate" in any way in "Maharaji's World" (doesn't that title give you the creeps?).

Great insights, Gerry, thanks.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 13:40:12 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Re: My Private Ashram
Message:
Exactly, Gerry. I was just thinking along the same lines yesterday. When I first turned against Rawat between 78 and 81 I suffered hellfire and damnation in my mind. Despite my dislike of him I went back just so I would not go to hell for all eternity.

Unfortunately not dealing with my real attitude towards rawat made my mental negativity then became physical illness and I was sick until about a year ago when I finally said enough to the ''poisonous vulture.''

How many other former (or spaced out) premies have suffered the same way? I know plenty.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 13:29:19 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Yeah, that IS something
Message:
Here's the kicker: I spent most of my twenties wondering aimlessly around like some wounded sadhu thinking I'd really blown it with the Living Lord of Our Age. I was a total failure at meditation and devotion. The worst kind of unworthy failure.

Yes, yes, yes. That kind of dismal second-guessing and smouldering self-doubt must have plagued countless escapees. Good point. I wonder, Ger, did you ever sneak back in, say, for an evening of satsang somewhere? Every community I lived in had these occasional drop-ins from ex-premie 'ghosts'. We always felt so sorry for them, knowing as we did that Maharaji was in their hearts just crying to be loved, worshipped, respected, tithed ...

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 12:58:17 (EST)
From: Moley
Email: moldy_warp@hotmail.com
To: gerry
Subject: Poisonous vulture - great phrase!
Message:
Yeh Gerry - I can relate to all that. The worst thing about this philosophy being, IMO, that, cos you've failed at the one thing you are here on the planet to achieve then obviously you are gonna fail at everything else even more spectacularly. After all, if you can't hack doing the thing that is supposed to be the most natural thing for a human being to do, then how the hell you gonna get to grips with the ocean of Maya, which you were never supposed to pay attention to in the first place!

Poison indeed.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 14:23:51 (EST)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: Moley
Subject: Premie ghosts
Message:
Great phrase Jim.

I think the existence of thousands and thousands (indeed, lakhs and lakhs) of these premie 'ghosts' is one of the most important reason for the existence of this site. Almost everyone I know who left when I did (which was almost everyone I knew - there was a mass exodus in the early 80's in Miami) probably didn't really have completion. I have met people since who still hold a warm, soft spot for MJ. I used to think this was okay, but I wonder if it doesn't also sometimes mean that there is a cold, clammy spot in their psyche which believes that they 'blew it.'

A lot of people have shown up here in the past year or so saying that they have been out for years, but have only really dealt with the whole thing by reading EPO.

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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 21:20:26 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: Yes!
Message:
I used to think this was okay, but I wonder if it doesn't also sometimes mean that there is a cold, clammy spot in their psyche which believes that they 'blew it.'

Absolutely, Disculta. Absolutely. It's not just logically necessary, it also happens to be true. :)

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 14:58:08 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: Re: Premie ghosts
Message:
Disculta,

You said I have met people since who still hold a warm, soft spot for MJ. I used to think this was okay, but I wonder if it doesn't also sometimes mean that there is a cold, clammy spot in their psyche which believes that they 'blew it.'

The more 'posties' (not premie nor ex' I talk with, the more that seems to be the case. I was just speaking with someone who no longer practices K and no longer drawn to M and they definitely think they projected their ideas on M. They see no reason why M should be personally responsible for the past. I think the soft spot you mention is a cushion to ease the ego's fall to the ground at discovering that one's own direction doesn't depend on another.

The 'Premie Ghosts' phrase is indeed a graphic one portraying the lost soul who doesn't want to stay but has never really left.

Richard

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 19:18:48 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Re: Premie ghosts
Message:
Hey, all you guys

This is a great discussion. Yes, the cold clammy spot in the psyches is unresolved information. Maha deliberately infuses peoples' psyches with ambiguity, hence the duplicious nature many premies, especially the adamant apologists who invade this forum.

Premies don't struggle with the truth, because they are convinced they KNOW it. Even when premies are rebellious to the organizantion and critical of its efficacy, they are still nontheless, loyal to the cause.

The concept of the 'Perfect Master' is the mortar holding the stratified concepts, accepted or otherwise, deeply entrenched in the psyche. This denies the premies access to deeper levels of perception.

Here's a line I read in an essay today that I think is apropos:

If we have not struggled with truth, we will not recognize truth when we seee it.

deborah

p.s. Disculta, I recently rec'd a photo in an email of a premie from Morton Towers. It was a nice surprise.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 20:10:38 (EST)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: Mortuary Towers? (ot)
Message:
Really - a photo of me from that place or THEM from there now? So I must know you? Who are you Deborah? (You can e-mail me darlingwave@aol.com ).

love ktd

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 20:58:29 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: Re: Mortuary Towers? (ot)
Message:
He sent a photo of himself. I also lived for awhile in Mortuary Towers.

BTW, I have met you on a number of occasions.

Satsangs, of course, that were held at your swanky apartment.

But also a great party that you threw that I'll remind you of when I email you. ;)

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 14:26:38 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: Absolutely right, Disculta
Message:
There are lots of people who are no longer premies, but who really aren't ex-premies either. But I think those who 'left' a while back, but haven't dealt with it, get deprogrammed very quickly when they start talking about it with those who have. It takes about 24hrs on EPO and the Forum, once one is ready to do it.
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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 16:33:31 (EST)
From: Suedoula
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: Absolutely right, Disculta
Message:
Joe,

This is me. I left more than 10 years ago. I would still have dreams about M. Usually they involved being at a program and trying to either get close to M or just see him at all. There would always be some bizarre obstacles in my way and I would never see him.

Finding this site was an awakening. It has allowed me to feel a sense of closure and allowed me to truly let go. No more dreams. I have also been able to put M in perspective and see him for who he is and what he isn't. Thanks, everyone.

Best,
Susan

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 11:30:41 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Big up to Pat C
Message:
Thanks for taking care of the **** attack, Patrick.

In case anyone doesn't know, Pat helps me considerably, and I really appreciate his efforts on behalf of us all.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 12:07:31 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Re: Big up to Pat C
Message:
Yes, thanks Pat for keeping our Forum Homeland safe from roving bands of ****'s.
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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 13:14:48 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Thanks, guys
Message:
The spamming has been happening in the wee hours of PST. Till this am I just deleted all the spam. After a bunch of deletions **** usually gives up. Blocking isn't something that always works as the spammer may just come back with another IP# so I hesitate to use it as who the hell wants multiple ****s? It seemed to work this am - at least so far.

**** is probably D_J_U_R_O_ currently posting from India. I guess he's pissed that Rawat did not turn up and he had to spend a week in a blue tent with the 2,000 hardcore premies and a case of Vishnu's revenge.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 14:10:38 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: A Case of Vishnu's Revenge LOL!
Message:
Hi Pat,

You know I appreciate your work on the forum. You also take a lot of abuse from those premie trolls (I won't mention namesss)!

Thanks so much for being here.

Love,
Cynthia

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 19:22:53 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: A Case of Vishnu's Revenge LOL! [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 14:22:47 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Re: A Case of Vishnu's Revenge LOL!
Message:
Well, Cynthia, you know how the premie fanatics always say that we hate Rawat because we really love him. I just tell myself the same thing every time a cult apologist says something hateful to me. Trouble is it's cult-think and it doesn't work. Oh well, c'est la guerre. :)

I was just thinking about you up in the cold white north as we had our first chilly night. Time for a second blanket here.

Lots of love to you too.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 11:19:22 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: All
Subject: FAQ Page Under Contruction at EV Site
Message:
Well, I was just there yesterday to take a look around and the FAQ page was still there.

Today, gone, it says it's under construction. I also have been checking the PR section and that's been ''under construction'' for quite some time.

I wonder what they'll come up with this time...
[ Empty FAQ Page ]

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Date: Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 10:20:00 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Empty FAQ page not empty anymore (nt)
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 13:42:33 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Press Kit also suspended [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 07:35:49 (EST)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Nigel - virus on your site
Message:
When I clicked on The complete works of Larkin link on the Anything Goes Links page, I got the above virus alert.

I thought you should know about this.
[ Graphic Link ]

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 14:17:06 (EST)
From: Nigel
Email: nige@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Sir Dave
Subject: hanks...can U try again?T
Message:
I have replaced the page. Could you try it again please, since I don't have your sophisticated virus-check software? Ta.
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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 20:36:32 (EST)
From: Chuck S.
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: It;s still there...
Message:
MY InoculateIT antivirus software said the same thing, the index page is infected with the JSnimda.A virus. Do you have any antivirus software you can clean it with before uploading the page again?
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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 05:52:46 (EST)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Chuck S.
Subject: No it's not...ulp!
Message:
Thanks Chuck. I have just discovered 268 htm files on my machine with an evil line of javascript appended which is apparently how the worm spreads itself. Anyway, my site is now clean. Unfortunately during the clean-up operation I have accidentally deleted the one and only copy of the Larkin page (index3.htm)...oops!

Might somebody still have a copy in their web-cache if they have visited the site recently? If so, I would be grateful if they could email it to me - but don't open the page without first opening the file in Notepad and removing the javascript line at the bottom.

(If you are worried about Nimda infection, search your machine for a file called 'readme.eml' - if it is there you will have multiple copies, and will need to run a patch to fix your machine.)

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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 15:12:34 (EST)
From: Chuck S.
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: You're in luck...
Message:
I found your index file in my temporary internet files folder. It was infected, but my virus program ''restored'' it. I've never sent an html file as an attachment before, let me know if it comes through ok. If not, I can send it again as a .doc file, as you only really need the code.
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Date: Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 11:50:43 (EST)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: Chuck S.
Subject: Phew - thanks, Chuck.. [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 01:06:32 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: netguest42@yahoo.com
To: All
Subject: Donation-Mainly a question for the FA
Message:
Dear FA and hosts of this site,

I would like to make a donation but have a few questions.

How are these funds going to be disbursed? I would think that the cost of running this forum on hotboards is minimal. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Can any of the money be used for any ad campaigns and more importantly,

Can any of these funds be used for the CAC victims to pay for their defense?

Tonette

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 10:58:21 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: Re: Donation-Mainly a question for the FA
Message:
Dear FA and hosts of this site,

I would like to make a donation but have a few questions.

How are these funds going to be disbursed? I would think that the cost of running this forum on hotboards is minimal. Please correct me if I am wrong.

The cost for server space is current approaching $100 per month. It goes up as we get more traffic. The assistant FA can verify those figures.

Can any of the money be used for any ad campaigns and more importantly, can any of these funds be used for the CAC victims to pay for their defense?

Donations since I set up the Paypal account have been $165. I'll apply this amount against expenses on Patty's credit card, so there won't be anything left for other puposes.

We could however, set up a separate fund for defense if and when that becomes necessary.

Of course an accounting of sorts, of all funds received is a good idea. And I have no qualms over paying myself a small stipend for my time if there is any money left over. Of course some may object as is their right.

Alternately, I'm considering advertisement but I don't believe this will be very popular.

Thanks Tonette for the good questions. Amazon.com actually has a very good system to accept donations which allows anyone to view the account. The downside is they rake off 15% where as Paypal gets 2.9%

I'm still working on this and haven't perfected it yet. Patty is currently taking a web design class and has offered to create a separate webpage for the forum. It would be a 'home' page which explains forum rules, serves as an intro, and takes care of links and donations, that sort of thing.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 22:29:50 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Thanks Gerry for all your work
Message:
I had no idea the forum was costing that much!
I think it is only fair that a stipend is paid to you and the other FA's if there is anything left over.
Thanks for the info on donation. I will certainly use pay pal.

Kind regards, Tonette

ps. I hope that if the need arises for the CAC victims for legal defense the forum will be able to address it. I would like to help with that as well if necessary.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 19:38:41 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Hi Gerry--advertising is good
Message:
We could also sell products, like coffee mugs with Barry's cartoons on them and use the profits to cover the cost of the forum.

Heck, I'm not adverse to the forum making money, there are lots of ideas that seed. And, when the numbers of posters picks up, which I'm sure it will, so will the sales.

Why not have a EPO catalogue list.

And advertisement for books, software, and guitars would go over well with this group. Sure we could think about a whole lot more. Let's talk seriously about it.

deborah

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 19:55:46 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: Re: Hi Gerry--advertising is good
Message:
I'm finalizing the artwork on a limited editon tee-sheet of one of EV's favorite 'adulterated' photographs which seems to garner more page views on the web than the Green Toilet Bowl Itself.

Is this being serious enough?

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 20:06:04 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Re: Hi Gerry--advertising is good
Message:
YUP! I think it's a great idea.
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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 11:49:19 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Gerry, thanks for all your good work....
Message:
I appreciate the work you are doing to keep the forum going. Thanks.

The donations button is a great idea. I'm sure many of us will contribute. Thanks also for Patty's efforts.

Can you tell us what kind of traffic the forum is getting? I know in the past, Brian had some information that earlier incarnations of the Forum were getting sometimes 10,000 and more messages read per day. That was a clear indication that there were hoards of "lurkers" who don't post.

I know it goes up and down, but can you give us any numbers?

And John, do you have any information on how much traffic the EPO website is getting?

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 11:58:28 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: You're welcome Joe
Message:
You've put in a lot of time too, and I really appreciate your carefully considered and well written essays.

The Forum has probably given me more than I've given "it" so I don't mind doing this service. Hey, we can say "service" again now that Rawat has hijacked a different word for his purposes.

August 103407
September 198026
October 190683
November 107322

These are "page view" statistics which are now the standard measurement of site traffic. They are more accurate than counting "hits" because hits also included any and all links to that page (or something like that.)

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 12:09:01 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: A Question
Message:
What does 'page view' mean? Does that mean that during September, there were 198,000 'pages' viewed on the Forum, or an average of 6,600 'pages' per day? Does that mean that every time somebody opens a post, that registers as one page view?

Thanks also to Pat. I didn't know he was helping out.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 12:20:30 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: from 'Webopedia'
Message:
I think you have the right idea.

The accessing of a Web page. Often used by sites to give advertisers a sense of traffic, a page view differs from a hit by counting only the number of times a page has been accessed, whereas a hit counts the number of times that all the elements in a page, including graphics, have been accessed.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 12:01:21 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: WoW! Gerry...
Message:
Thanks Gerry,

I also appreciate your service here, as well as Pat's. Those numbers are quite impressive!

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 13:41:42 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Gerry, yes. Pat? It's hard for me
Message:
Gerry,

I have no problem appreciating your work. I'll donate a little somethin' too. But I just can't, for the life of me, find it in my heart to thank Pat. I don't know why that is. I like Pat. I consider him my friend. It's all good, as they say, but I just can't appreciate him. I mean, I've tried -- hell, I'll even try a little later when I get back from court. But I'm not expecting anything....

Thank YOU, though. Seriously. I know I often give you a hard time for your conspiracy stuff (by the way, I found out WHY flight 800 blew up last night. Laurie's daughter is a pilot. His explanation was very convincing and he's fully aware of the conspiracy theory. It wasn't anything untoward at all.) I'll tell you what happened IF you can teach me to appreciate Pat. Deal?

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 17:45:26 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: A Question of Etiquette
Message:
I can't really explain something like 'appreciation' Jim. It's an experience.

This is a little hinky, though:

Laurie's daughter is a pilot. His explanation was very convincing and he's fully aware of the conspiracy theory.

Do I call her Mister or Captain?

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 20:10:36 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: I say that?
Message:
I can't really explain something like 'appreciation' Jim. It's an experience.

This is a little hinky, though:

Laurie's daughter is a pilot. His explanation was very convincing and he's fully aware of the conspiracy theory.

Do I call her Mister or Captain?


---

I meant boyfriend. Laurie's daughter's boyfriend.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 13:30:23 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Re: WoW! Gerry...
Message:
Yes, those figures are amazing. When Gerry first set up the site he refused financial help and bore all the costs himself. However that adds up to nearly $1500 per year (enough for a nice vacation in Mexico for two.)

The figures have steadily increased in the ten months I've been here and probably will continue to rise as new exes arrive. I think Patty's idea is great and also think that Gerry should be paid for his time.

As for the legal defense fund for CAC victims: yesterday I thought that it was probably not necessary but, since finding out that professional cult apologists may be behind CAC, it could become necessary in the future.

Quite a few of us noticed the similarities between the Scientologists' attack on their ''apostates'' to the CAC attack. Well, both sites may have been done by the same two pros or else Rawat's cult apologists are learning from the Scientologists.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 18:00:13 (EST)
From: gErRy
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: ****************BEST OF****************
Message:
(snicker)

.
.
.
.
.
.
Yes, those figures are amazing. When Gerry first set up the site he refused financial help and bore all the costs himself. However that adds up to nearly $1500 per year (enough for a nice vacation in Mexico for two.)

The figures have steadily increased in the ten months I've been here and probably will continue to rise as new exes arrive. I think Patty's idea is great and also think that Gerry should be paid for his time.

As for the legal defense fund for CAC victims: yesterday I thought that it was probably not necessary but, since finding out that professional cult apologists may be behind CAC, it could become necessary in the future.

Quite a few of us noticed the similarities between the Scientologists' attack on their ''apostates'' to the CAC attack. Well, both sites may have been done by the same two pros or else Rawat's cult apologists are learning from the Scientologists.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 21:58:31 (EST)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: gErRy
Subject: Re: ****************BEST OF****************
Message:
Actually, Gerry, do you remember the anonymous poster at AG just before the CAC attack who was posting about the Scientologists' campaign against its detractors in a very heated and pointed way?

Anna

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 22:19:48 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Re: ****************BEST OF****************
Message:
No I don't but that sounds about right.
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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 22:29:52 (EST)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Re: ****************BEST OF****************
Message:
And that was soon after the forum poll went thumbs down for archiving! :( That was when I posted this article from one of our local alt-rags that isn't properly archived there, but I got the link from the writer, so just in case anyone's interested, I've included it again in this post. I don't think m will or can ever go so far as infiltrating government offices with x-rated premies, but that's what they did in Toronto, and more. They lost that legal battle or two, btw.

Hi to Patty, the cats, and Sophia! :)

Anna
[ 'Destroy him utterly' ]

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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 15:23:39 (EST)
From: Chuck S.
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Thank you Stoner, it's a very relevant link...
Message:
A really interesting article, totally creepy. One passage that reminded me of CAC:

Stacy Brooks believes these are not isolated incidents, but the result of one of L. Ron Hubbard's earliest orders, called ''fair game.''

In 1967, Hubbard issued the fair-game policy, which said that opponents ''may be deprived of property or injured by any means, by any Scientologist. He may be tricked, sued, lied to, or destroyed utterly.'' In essence, the policy can be described as the best defense being a good offense. Brooks says fair game is a way to defend the organization from its critics by targeting those critics by any means necessary. ''Never agree to an investigation of Scientology, only an investigation of the attackers,'' she says, reading from a pile of Hubbard directives she keeps by her desk. ''Start feeding lurid blood, sex and crime tales to the press.''

The rest of the article is well worth the read. Thanks.

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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 02:20:56 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Oh no! No archiving?
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 02:24:24 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: There's no archiving?
Message:
No archiving of Forum 7? I didn't know that.
That is a real shame. I think it needs to be reviewed. There are too many great posts here to let them fall into nothingness.
I missed this vote. Do you think that we can revisit this issue?
Was this a decision made because of the CAC sites?

Tonette

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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 07:41:50 (EST)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: At the original Anything Goes!
Message:
You seem to have missed that detail. I wasn't referring to F7 but to 'AG', the original Anything Goes, last year before the CAC attack. Unfortunately, achiving F7 doesn't seem to be easy, but it is being done. Hope that clears the confusion up.

Anna

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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 23:59:18 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Thanks Stoner, I was worried for a second! nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 19:32:42 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: gErRy
Subject: Re: ****************BEST OF****************
Message:
Last year when I was on the local PWK team I was going to lease them a small hall (for nothing of course as long as they paid the utilities.) It needed a bit of work to make it nice. I suggested that we pay the PWK who is a contractor to do the work. Well, I was nearly excommunicated on the spot for suggesting paying a PWK to do service.
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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 00:29:19 (EST)
From: Santa's helper
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Help the economy,buy EV this year..
Message:
Holiday Catalog-2001, just sent out by EV.

Gifts include:

Bone china cup-$39
The Every Breath Calendar Watch-
Mens-$495, Womens-$475
Celebrate Life Men's pullover-$42
Crystal Tumblers-set of two for $49
Swan necklace-$49

And the grand prize:

Silent Dream-by Prem Rawat-$125
(The opportunity is here for the first time in ten years to own this exquisite, limited print. We invite you to take full advantage of this generous offer.)

Goober must be reaching the bottom of the barrel...

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 02:01:10 (EST)
From: Zelda
Email: None
To: Santa's helper
Subject: discrimination!!!
Message:
why oh why should the womens watch cost less than the mens?? HMMMM???
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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 10:44:16 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Zelda
Subject: Virtual Warehouse Sale At Visions!
Message:
Looks like the warehouse is full and the membership rolls are getting lower and lower and lower....

Check out the umbrellas! LOLOLOL!

http://store.yahoo.com/visionsinternational/virwarsal.html
[ To Divine Warehouse ]

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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 00:00:45 (EST)
From: S.H.
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: My p[ersonal favorite, Cynthia...
Message:
Thanks for the link.

My personal favorite, particularly for the imaginative phrasing is:

Nothing celebrates life, like life!!!!

Brilliant, and a bargain at 6 for $20. (usually $5 apiece).

Thanks ....

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 15:34:06 (EST)
From: Zelda
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Re: Virtual Warehouse Sale At Visions!
Message:
now those umbrella should look cool in the business district.

I see the CD is titled 'Drifting' - that explains alot.

Z

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 12:03:19 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: 'Generous' Offers
Message:
Visions is pushing this little gem. Does anybody have it? I don't want to spend money on it, but it would be a scream to see how they edit this tape to cover-up Maharaji's more outrageous claims. A 'historical documentary,' sure:

Passages - A Master's Journey

A historical documentary of Maharaji's endeavor over the last 3 decades to make Knowledge available throughout the world.

The year was 1971, a time of great social upheaval in the world... So begins this unique video depicting the remarkable story of a young Master's journey to make his teachings available throughout the world. Through the eyes of 14 people who have been inspired by the teachings of Maharaji, this story unfods in a fascinating and intimate manner.

Yes, I'm sure we will all be fascinated. Care to opine on who the 14 apostles are? Lets see who from that period are still in the cult: Joan Apter, Glenn Whittaker, Derek Harper, Tim Gallway, Valario Pascotto... One can be sure that the 'documentary' will not include any dissenting views, like Dettmers, Donner, Bill Patterson, or anybody who doesn't still consider Maharaji to be God.

This other Visions trinket REALLY gets to me. $125.00 for a reproduced poster of a flower, that apparently Maharaji painted all by himself. Anyone who gets to buy this will, of course, consider themselves lucky, because selling it for $125.00 is 'generous.' Look, if you are a cult-leader, you can paint a flower and they will call it a 'work of art,' no matter what, and you can get away with using 'gift' as a verb.

Silent Dream Poster
---
Maharaji

A limited edition reproduction created from an original work of art.

Created from a one of a kind, original work of art, this reproduction conveys an expression of simple beuty (sic). Through most gracious gifting by the artist, the opportunity is here for the first time in ten years to own this exquisite limited print. We invite you to take full advantage of this generous offer. The dimensions are 20x35.

Yes, it's a great opportunity and Maharaji is just so generous. See, he was going to charge $199.99 for that piece of crap.

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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 11:05:32 (EST)
From: It was probably a
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: 'paint by numbers' kit...|D [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 12:02:32 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject:
Message:
Visions is pushing this little gem. Does anybody have it? I don't want to spend money on it, but it would be a scream to see how they edit this tape to cover-up Maharaji's more outrageous claims. A 'historical documentary,' sure:

Passages - A Master's Journey

A historical documentary of Maharaji's endeavor over the last 3 decades to make Knowledge available throughout the world.

The year was 1971, a time of great social upheaval in the world... So begins this unique video depicting the remarkable story of a young Master's journey to make his teachings available throughout the world. Through the eyes of 14 people who have been inspired by the teachings of Maharaji, this story unfods in a fascinating and intimate manner.

Yes, I'm sure we will all be fascinated. Care to opine on who the 14 apostles are? Lets see who from that period are still in the cult: Joan Apter, Glenn Whittaker, Derek Harper, Tim Gallway, Valario Pascotto... One can be sure that the 'documentary' will not include any dissenting views, like Dettmers, Donner, Bill Patterson, or anybody who doesn't still consider Maharaji to be God.

This one REALLY gets to me. $125.00 for a reproduced poster of a flower, that apparently Maharaji painted all by himself. Anyone who gets to buy this will, of course, consider themseves lucky, because selling it for $125.00 is 'generous.' Look, if you are a cult-leader, you can paint a flower and they will call it a 'work of art,' no matter what, and you can get away with using 'gift' as a verb.

Silent Dream Poster
---
Maharaji

A limited edition reproduction created from an original work of art.

Created from a one of a kind, original work of art, this reproduction conveys an expression of simple beuty (sic). Through most gracious gifting by the artist, the opportunity is here for the first time in ten years to own this exquisite limited print. We invite you to take full advantage of this generous offer. The dimensions are 20x35.

Yes, it's a great opportunity and Maharaji is just so generous. See, he was going to charge $199.99 for that piece of crap.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 11:17:09 (EST)
From: Holy Roller
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Re: Virtual Warehouse Sale At Visions!
Message:
How to package, market and promote the journey to your heart,
Purpose of Life, Inc.
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Date: Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 23:02:24 (EST)
From: A Fan
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Catweasel
Message:
Men at Work meet Midnight Oil meet Long John Baldry. Click the link and meet Australia's Catweasel
[ http://Catweasel.htm ]
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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 05:49:43 (EST)
From: Catweasel
Email: None
To: A Fan
Subject: May I thank my Producer...
Message:
I am humbled and honoured. The likeness is uncanny.
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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 05:58:20 (EST)
From: Catweasel
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: Hey Conlon!!! Some ghost? That Walks?
Message:
Ghosts have a habit of coming out to haunt you..........
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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 05:58:17 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: Jesus Christ, CW!
Message:
Is that you? You know I hate rock and roll especially 50 year Mick Jagger wannabes. I think I preferred imagining you as a David Smith clone.
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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 06:13:57 (EST)
From: Catweasel
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: Jesus Christ, CW!
Message:
I am the little red guy on the curtain. The other guys are my fans.
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Date: Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 22:52:03 (EST)
From: Whiz, the Wizard
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Catweasel's Diary
Message:
Click the link to follow CW's diary.
[ http://www.enchantedspirit.com/Potpourri/Catweasel'sCorner/ExcerptsfromaCat-sDiary.php ]
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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 17:10:37 (EST)
From: such
Email: None
To: Whiz, the Wizard
Subject: Catweasel's Diary,ah:kitty litter [nt]
Message:
har har har
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Date: Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 21:30:39 (EST)
From: Pullaver
Email: None
To: All
Subject: The Cult Observer
Message:
This publication was listed as one giving a positive review to the book 'Snapping' by Flo Conway and Jim Siegelman, that Barbara and Joe recommended down below. There is some potentially helpful info at this site for cultists, ex-cultists and recent ex-cultists.
[ http://www.cultobserver.com/ ]
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Date: Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 21:12:36 (EST)
From: Pullaver
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Cult Apologists, the phenomena of
Message:
There is now a growing phenomena of cult apologist. This newsgroup posting provides an interesting stepping off point into this social phenomena .......
[ http://home.snafu.de/tilman/faq-you/cult.apologists.txt ]
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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 14:26:01 (EST)
From: Larkin
Email: larkin@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Pullaver
Subject: ...as I once put it...
Message:
Apologists use five surefire evasions
(You too will use the full set, by and by)
Five sleazy tactics fit for all occasions
When simple logic leaves them high and dry

One: deny the facts of what you’re hearing
Accuse your foes of slander and of lies
And lest the truth diverts the course you’re steering
Plug ears, tongue up, watch breath and squeeze your eyes.

Two: admit the facts (with some false sadness)
But write them off against some nobler end
That justifies the mindwarps and the madness
Which breaks some fellow-traveller now and again.

Three: ignore the facts and turn your firepower
Upon the messengers who brings the news
Who dared to blow a raspberry at your higher power
Especially when you can’t refute their views.

Four: move on , restart the conversation
Change the subject when it gets too tough
‘Till folk get tired of your prevarication
And finally give you space to spout your stuff.

Five: shout ‘foul!’ then tell them ‘I’m not playing...
Just because you’re clean-bowled, centre stump.
Truth is, we hear exactly what you’re saying
And sorry, pal, you’re giving me the hump.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 01:28:23 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Pullaver
Subject: CAC used the word ''apostate''
Message:
Interesting that professional cult apologists use the word ''apostate'' to mean ex-cultist. I wonder if the CAC creators were professional apologists paid to do Rawat's dirty work for him.
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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 11:33:48 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: 'Apostate' FYI
Message:
'Apostate' is this made-up theory that a lot of fundamentalist Christians use when people leave the fold and then speak out against their former repressive religion. You can find some fundamentalist christian 'professors' who espouse this stupid theory. These are probably the same 'professors' who claim that there is no proof of evolution and that the Earth is only 6,000 years old, that people like Jerry Falwell trot out to support their beliefs.

CAC used the theory to describe Michael Dettmers, in a desperate attempt to discredit him, seeing as no one has been able to counter factually anything he has had to say.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 17:08:15 (EST)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: a prostate is a terrible thing to lose [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 17:14:13 (EST)
From: such
Email: None
To: suchabanana
Subject: m: a prostrate is a terrible thing to lose [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 11:44:03 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: I'm a Heretic, too
Message:
Hi Joe,

I guess I am a heretic, too, since I left the Catholic Church +)

Heretic: A person who holds controversial opinions, especially one who publicly dissents from the officially accepted dogma of the Roman Catholic Church.

I used to call myself a 'recovering Catholic' but I switched the label to ex-premie, since I don't miss the CHURCH at all, not that I miss the cult!

Hope you're well,
Cynthia

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 08:49:07 (EST)
From: Pat, or learned it on this forum? nt
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: CAC used the word ''apostate''
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 21:38:06 (EST)
From: Pullaver
Email: None
To: Pullaver
Subject: Re: Cult Apologists, the phenomena of
Message:
As well, the following attached URL is an entire website devoted to the phenomena . . .
[ http://www.gospelcom.net/apologeticsindex/c11.html ]
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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 01:25:34 (EST)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Pullaver
Subject: EXCELLENT, excellent resources, thanks! [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 22:57:52 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Pullaver
Subject: I've bookmarked this...
Message:
This is a great source. Thanks for the good work. This is exactly what the fear-based apologists are doing. Amazing to think that this freaky little phenomenon is actually happening to all the cults. Yet, the cult apologists here don't acknowledge it is a carbon copy of their own behaviour. Amazing.

BTW, this site is an excellent source to accompany any media releases we initiate. We have tons of apologist-posts that get increasingly ugly, dangerous, and deranged when engaged with even substantiated criticism toward their cult and its leader. It will only serve to confirm our contention that Maha is and has been orchestrating a cult all these years.

This site needs prominence on EPO to help the premies understand the strained relationship that they will be encountering before they post.

cheers

deborah

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Date: Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 21:59:37 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Pullaver
Subject: Thanks so much
Message:
Amazing that this phenomenon has grown as it has. This must be where the CAC cult apologist stuff came from. Interesting what people will do for money.
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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 04:48:19 (EST)
From: Chuck S.
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: It IS where the CAC ...
Message:
... cult apologist stuff came from! I saved the entire CAC site that was on Angelfire. The authors who wrote the sections, ''The Reliability of Apostate Testimony About New Religious Movements'', (by Lonnie D. Kliever) and ''Apostates and New Religious Movements'' (by Bryan Wilson), both these authors are mentioned as doing extensive work for Scientology. Kliever is also a member/participant at Rev. Moon-linked organisations.

Maybe Erika is right, Maharaji IS evolving; he is hiring the professional cult apologists, the same ones the big cults use. What I want to know is, how can I be an apostate, if Knowlege was never a religion?

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 05:02:43 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Chuck S.
Subject: Knowlege was never a religion
Message:
...so how can we be apostates? How can EV be a church without members, a congregation?

Apostate is an archaic word seldom used anymore except by the cult apologist business. They borrowed it from the RC church to give a facade of respectablity to their sick profession. If they were honest they would use ''former member of a cult'' instead. They would like to call us trouble-makers but that's not good PR.

I call myself a whistle-blower. I'm whistling ''Hey Mister T-man.'' (For non-Yanks that does not mean Mr Tambourine man. It means Treasury man, the tax cops.)

Start writing your letter to the Treasury Dept. Save it until we are all ready to mail them at the same time. They will be very interested to hear about a church without a congregation or a creed - the two absolute requisites for having the status of a non-taxable church in the eyes of the T-man.

Apostate my foot. Only a shyster or a fakir peddling fake immortality could come up with that word.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 21:13:26 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Letter writing campaingn
Message:
to the Treasury Dept. I'M IN BABY
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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 19:48:18 (EST)
From: Repost of Pat C
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: $$$$ Everyone Read $$$$
Message:
Knowlege was never a religion...so how can we be apostates? How can EV be a church without members, a congregation?

Apostate is an archaic word seldom used anymore except by the cult apologist business. They borrowed it from the RC church to give a facade of respectablity to their sick profession. If they were honest they would use ''former member of a cult'' instead. They would like to call us trouble-makers but that's not good PR.

I call myself a whistle-blower. I'm whistling ''Hey Mister T-man.'' (For non-Yanks that does not mean Mr Tambourine man. It means Treasury man, the tax cops.)

Start writing your letter to the Treasury Dept. Save it until we are all ready to mail them at the same time. They will be very interested to hear about a church without a congregation or a creed - the two absolute requisites for having the status of a non-taxable church in the eyes of the T-man.

Apostate my foot. Only a shyster or a fakir peddling fake immortality could come up with that word.

I love my job-gerry

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Date: Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 20:12:36 (EST)
From: Interested Bystander
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Ken Kelley, Richard Levine et al...
Message:
Maybe this thread deserves a new beginning and some serious thought.

The idea of one of these authors returning to the 'boy guru' 30 years later could be very appealing, especially as many of the readers of these magazines are middle aged and looking back on their lives now. It certainly was history then, and the 'Now and Then' or 'Before and After' possibilities could be quite good.

Since there are so many talented writers on EPO, could an e-package be developed which would simply and easily alert a potential writer to :

1-old articles from the 70's, to refresh their memory
2-history from that point to today
3-current dilemna of m
4-pertinent 'Best Of Forum' posts to provide current analysis, esp. recent letters and revelations...
5-an outline that might suggest ways to approach the article, including interviews and records to research...

Could this e-package be e-mailed to various writers that have covered m before, and the magazines that carried the articles?

Also, has anyone ever approached the original producer of the LOTU movie, and asked if he/she has any 'unseen' footage from the original movie, that they might release?
Could be interesting...

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Date: Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 22:36:33 (EST)
From: such
Email: banana@chiquita_electric.com
To: Interested Bystander
Subject: Jacques had some great out-takes
Message:
whatever happened to Jacques [Sandoz] from la Suisse? Nouri and I were in some scenes of another movie Jacques filmed called 'Millenium '73'. hey, that one could eventually turn out to be a Real 'cult classic'! haha

kinda like 'Dracula '79':
CHP officer: 'you were going like a bat outa hell through the red light.'
Drac [Mike N}: 'ze light was yellow; I know ze color red very well....[chomp, chomp]!'

LOL

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Date: Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 22:53:39 (EST)
From: Biddleby Dop
Email: None
To: such
Subject: Revenge of the Blanc Mange ...
Message:
An obscure but enlightening film blanc about the potential threat of the cross between the Blanc Mange of Pythonesque fame and the common marshmallow, as personified by the Grand Puffer, the Marshmallow Kid. Sickeningly sweet fare for the truer than true film kundabuff. Often shown in triptych with the Revenge of the Killer Tomatoes and the Day of the Dying Alive.
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Date: Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 18:37:43 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Maharaji Cult Attack Websites -- Day 11
Message:
To my knowledge, one attack website set up by Maharaji's followers is still on the Internet, out of the original six (or is it seven?), at the following URL:

http://user.netomia.com/HaltOnLineABuse/

The site contains many of our names, includes the names of our employers and accuses us of criminal activity.

No statement from Maharaji or Elan Vital. Nothing, silence. Clearly, Maharaji's failure to say anything about this implies at least tacit approval, if not outright complicity.

Also, none of the other cult websites mention it either. No mention on Please Consiter This, because that's probably something they would prefer people NOT consider.

A couple of the funnier allegations I have copied.

Taken anonymous ads in the local press containing defamatory statements against Maharaji.

Whoever did this, can we see a copy of the ad? I would be interested in seeing it.

Fabricated letters that bore the letterhead from Elan Vital’s lawyer, and posted them on the internet.

Yeah, right.

More generally, twisted facts and information in a vicious manner, so as to serve their own malicious purposes.

Okay, everyone, on the count of three, wring your hands together and laugh, feindishly. One, two, three.....!

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Date: Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 23:09:52 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Malicious porpoises??
Message:
Yes, Joe. Being lumped in with all you felons, letter-fabricaters and n'er-do-well's has put me on my best behavior. Taking out anonymous ads - unthinkable by civilized standards. Whoever did that deserves to rot in CAC prison.

The 'Marry Me Monica' banner flying over Amaroo - now that was a funny idea that never got off the ground. Not that I condone such hatefulness, no never ever.

Richard, who never laid a finger on any malicious porpoise

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Date: Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 19:31:21 (EST)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: Maharaji Cult Attack Websites -- Day 11
Message:
they might accuse us of laughing at their web site.
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Date: Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 19:29:10 (EST)
From: Marianne
Email: MarianneDB@aol.com
To: Joe
Subject: Rely on false info at your legal peril
Message:
Yes, the site does purport to list the names of some of our employers. As I pointed out last week, all of the sites -- including this last one -- say that I am employed by the San Francisco Public Defender's Office. I am not and never have been an employee of that office. When the first CAC site went up, I publicly stated that the site contained false and defamatory information about me. That was just one piece of false information on the sites about me.

As I suspected, some idiot premie -- Bjorn Edwardsen of Norway, who has hassled Abi, me and others here -- emailed the public defender's office and told them I was a cyberstalker and threatened to sue the public defender's office because I was making posts against him on public time. Even after the Chief Assistant wrote to Bjorn and told him I did not work there, Bjorn twice wrote him back and made further false and defamatory allegations about me.

I have legal remedies for this against everyone involved in these sites, from the top on down. Like the title of this post says, if you rely on false information and use it against me, you do it at your legal peril.

Anyone out there who wants to come in from the cold and protect themselves from the legal ramifications of their involvement in these sites is welcome to email me.

Marianne Bachers
San Francisco, California

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 01:00:38 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Voice of support.
Message:
I admire your energy and tenaciousness. I sure hope you can vindicate your good name.

Those site are awful!

Please let me know if there's anything I can do. I hope you can get to the bottom of who is putting these sites up.

Fondly, Tonette

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Date: Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 19:33:21 (EST)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Re: Rely on false info at your legal peril
Message:
Marianne,

am with you all the way. Get the bastards.

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Date: Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 19:39:28 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: Re: Rely on false info at your legal peril
Message:
Marianne,

You go girl. Those creeps made a big mistake and will suffer the consequences.

Hope you're well,
Love,
Cynthia

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Date: Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 17:34:00 (EST)
From: Searcher
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Songwriter apologises
Message:
Songwriter apologises for mix up

Nearly thirty years after penning his most well known offering, a songwriter has broken his silence to make an apology.
The songwriter, who wishes to remain anonymous, wrote the song 'The Lord of the Universe' in 1973.
It was, he says, a love song to his teacher who he said had changed his life.
'I was sitting in my garden listening to the Beatles song 'Across the Universe' and the idea of 'a universe of love' just came to me.
I grabbed a pen and paper and half an hour later I had finished it.'
The song 'Lord of the Universe' talks about the songwriter’s teacher and how he taught the songwriter to connect to a 'universe of love' within.
'I haven’t given the song much thought for the last thirty years but recently a friend rang me up to tell me that the song has had an unexpected consequence.
Apparently some people thought that I was writing about the real universe, you know the physical one with stars and galaxies, even though the song clearly says 'the universe of love'.
Over the last thirty years these people have built up a philosophy based on the fact that my teacher, Maharaji, was or was not really the 'Lord of the Real Universe'.
And this has affected not just the people who heard the song in the ‘70’s but new followers they have recruited as well.
Later on, when they realised that he couldn’t be the 'Lord of the Real Universe' they became angry and bitter and claimed they had been misled.
I just would like to say that I am deeply sorry for the misunderstanding.
At the time I wrote the song I had no idea that anyone could possibly believe that Maharaji was the 'Lord of the Real Universe'.
Maybe I was a little careless and should have called the song 'The Lord of the Universe of Love' but I felt the title was too long.
Once again I apologise and hope that the people concerned will now accept that the phrase 'Lord of the Universe' was used in a poetic sense and not as an anti-intellectual, illogical refutation of science and the laws of physics.'

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 20:13:36 (EST)
From: such
Email: Meier@frei-patent.com
To: Searcher
Subject: glass houses: prem song plagiarism: 'He's Here
Message:
Folks, remember that pretty cult classic 'He's Here', with the acoustic piano and Joni Mitchell style vocals?

Now, listen carefully to the soft pastoral movement of this all-time classical favourite: Rachmaninov, Sergei: Piano Concerto No.2 in C minor, Op.18.

As I listened to this lovely piano concerto again today, I couldn't help but notice how the melody strains of the verses of that Prem Rawat personality cult worship song [i.e. '...times when I was lost...swallowing my foolish pride, opening up inside...' etc.] were lifted note-for-note from Rachmaninov. The piano accompaniment, the tempo, and the distinctive melody virtually identical for a quite a number of measures. If Rachmaninov were alive today, this would probably be another major 7-figure US copyright infringement lawsuit -- a la My Sweet Lard. [Dang!]

Indeed, upon sitting at the piano and comparing the two pieces, I'd say that 90% of the verse sections from He's Here were definitely plagiarized -- whether intentional or subconscious.
lessee here -- classical piano student becomes premie, writes ode to rugu, has this incessant melody going through her head, puts words to it, adds a chorus tag -- bingo!

Unfortunately, like Geoff Bridgford [plagiarizing J. Krishnamurti's poem, At the Feet of the Master], there was no attribution or credit listing Serge Rachmaninov as the co-composer -- or simply: Variations on a Theme by Rachmaninov.

Just like plagiarized Kabir [e.g. The Swing] or Krishnamurti, all of a sudden Rachmaninov is appropriated and licensed and marketed as phlegm cult property.

[hmm.... calculating approx 35% of $7,000,000 in international legal fees. Dang!]

Incidentally, when Visions recorded premies playing 'Knocking at Heaven's Door' at Long Beach a few years ago, did Bob Dylan ever get his royalties? or when they played Rod Stewart's 'Do Ya Think I'm Sexy' while the Lard danced in Miami in the late '70s (for starters)? just wondering...

Peace + lentils,

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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 10:35:08 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: such
Subject: Such...barf bag please...
Message:
'Do ya think I'm sexy,' while dancing on the stage...

Didja have to remind me? LOLOL ()) ())

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Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 23:11:21 (EST)
From: such
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: yeah, that was a grossout
Message:
even as a groveling phlegmie, I thought, 'What the hell is this shit? What does this revolting tune have to do with Knowledge?'

maybe he was trying to score with some young blondie after the event. yuck. I can see it in my mind's eye now: rolls of lard bouncing up and down, mala swinging back and forth, Krishna crown kinda tilting to one side, Rod Stewart blaring lustfully from the large main p.a. speakers, gopis up-front swooning like 12-year-olds at a Backstreet Boys concert, and looking at my cheap watch, wondering if Wolfie's would be too crowded to get some potato pancakes with sour cream by the time we got out.

Then going to Wolfie's afterwards, and after waiting 30 minutes in line, I wanted a table by myself, but some young premie women practically jumped my bones to get some seats there, too, before I could object too vigorously. you remember how meek and emaciated many of the premie bros were in those days...

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 13:45:43 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Searcher
Subject: Another spoof, me thinks
Message:
Well, it appears we've been roundly hoaxed. Excellent post and clever idea but I just noticed 'Searcher' also posted the Reuters / FBI story a few days ago. Well done. You had me going.

Richard, who thought he was beyond being hoaxed

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Date: Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 19:14:30 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: richard@rogers-graphics
To: Searcher
Subject: Re: Songwriter apologises
Message:
Hey Searcher,

I'm assuming this isn't a hoax. If you are who I think you are, Susan and I were wondering about you the other day. I think we last visited in our home in Miami. If you are so inclined, please email me at the above address. If you want to stay anonymous, I honor that.

Regardless of who you are, it is a thought provoking post and quite a suprise. The song certainly became an anthem for those days.

Richard Rogers, who fortunately did not take it literally unless I have selective recall

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Date: Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 19:13:49 (EST)
From: such
Email: None
To: Searcher
Subject: more retractions + revisionism
Message:
[channeled from GB at Dun-Wrong Productions]: 'I hereby apologise for deliberately plagiarising the copyrighted poem 'At the Feet of the Master' - by J. Krishnamurti. I never intended for anyone to think that the song implied Prem Rawat was the actual master to which the song referred. I also never thought anyone would seriously think I wrote the lyrics [or that I would get caught someday].

'Waiting the word of the master
watching the hidden light
listening to catch his orders
in the very midst of the fight

Seeing his slightest signal
above the heads of the throng
hearing his faintest whisper
above earth's loudest song.'

-- J. Krishnamurti, 1910

etc. etc.

The only thing I actually wrote was 'at the feet of Maharaji you can really let it flow, let it flow, cause we're all love, love, love by HIS Grace.'

I'm sorry if anyone was misled by my blatant dishonesty -- which I also got away with on papers in school, btw. My intentions were good; I never thought anyone would take the song literally, either, even while singing it worshipfully on bended knee in front of an altar of Maharaji. Naturally, any and all royalties/revenues from that song should rightfully be reimbursed by Elan Vital to the Theosophical Society, legitimate owner/publisher of the book 'At the Feet of the Master.' In fact, I hope somebody notifies them asap to correct my offense and reach an amicable settlement. Perhaps I should publish an apology on the EV (or a premie) website. Then again, on second thought... perhaps it was all just a Lila [remember that great tune?]

by his [dis] grace,

Geoff'

note [words within brackets added]

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Date: Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 19:35:58 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: such
Subject: I, too, apologize...
Message:
NOT!

Yes, I wrote a couple of devotional songs that I sang to the premies a lot which premies loved (my 15 min. of fame)!! Swooning premies....ya'all remember that, dontcha? I was a sucker for devotional songs--it was part of the mindmeldmaharajimuck.

But so what? We were in a F**king cult! I meant every word at the time but, I wasn't in my right mind! So if you don't mind, I won't apologize.

I'm more apologetic to myself for not studying opera in those years when I had the chance, but, alas, I gave those years to the Rat.

Bygones are bygones...

It's a good thing we didn't record our satsangs! LOLOL!! HAhAHAhAHA!

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Date: Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 20:25:20 (EST)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Yes, I had my tunes
Message:
The LA premies even made a tape and songbook of our songs. And yes, the devotion of some of the songs (especially in the early days) used to make people cry tears of something-or-other.

But you see, the thing that was touched in you, was touched in the listener, through your song. It had nothing too do with Goomraji, the 'Lord,' the 'Master,' etc. But of course at the time, that's what we all thought. We use songs and words to convey some sort of emotion, deep feeling, inspiration. What was conveyed was more important, and that was from you, and from them. But ai-yeesh! The lyrics, yes, yes, I know!

I have some embarassing lyrics, and anyone who lived in SF or Boston in 1973, Altanta in 1974, LA area in 1974-80 and SF after that, heard my swill. Also at programs where M spoke, but never prime time. We even had a jazzy band in LA called 'Beckon Gently.' Jiva used to joke that they were 'Beckon Loudly.'

LOLs

--f

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Date: Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 21:55:37 (EST)
From: Teen Beat Magazine
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: JIVA
Message:
Francesca, any idea of the whereabouts, or activities of the former members of JIVA, my girlfriend couldn't understand why any of them took their shirts off for the album cover - the one they recorded for George Harrison's Dark Horse label.
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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 01:19:11 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Teen Beat Magazine
Subject: One of the members posted here
Message:
I don't know you, but one of the members of JIVA posted here recently.
His post is archived now but with a little digging you should be able to find it. It was recent, maybe Nov. 2 or 3.
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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 00:30:39 (EST)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Teen Beat Magazine
Subject: Re: JIVA
Message:
Wish I knew. Those were a great bunch of people. In SF in about 1983 or so my friend had a solo album of Michael Lanning's (who had been their lead singer), and Casey, who had been their roadie was one of the backup musicians.

When I was in Bhole Ji's band, being cynical of all premies I didn't know (I had a hard time being cynical of people I really knew, you understand), I tried to dislike those guys but I just couldn't. When I went back to the LA community they were all my buds, and were really good folks to know, and good musicians. Tommy Hilton was a great singer and songwriter also. But I lost track of them all after I left LA, and then stopped being a premie. Jim Strauss (bass) was getting to be quite the businessman, as I recall.

Yes, that shirts off album was ... tastless. Bad advice, that.

--f
[ Oy! Jiva Cover ]

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 16:57:18 (EST)
From: such
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: remember the maha chant they did?
Message:
at the end of: 'you got to wait a lil bit longer...' bolie shri...caca

on the Dark Horse production.

I did some concerts with Jiva on the bill, too. we always had a good time.

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Date: Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 19:53:08 (EST)
From: Michael McDonald
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: I'd also like to apologise
Message:
for writing the lyrics to 'Surdas The Gardener' and making Bryn feel ill every time he heard them.

I also need to apologise to the shade of Australian poet A B 'Banjo' Paterson, the lines from whose poem 'The Man From Snowy River':

'There was movement at the station as the word had gone around
The colt from Old Regret had got away'

are vaguely echoed in the song's:

'In the palace and the marketplace the word had gone around
The master of the universe had flown into town'

which has now been appropriately bowdlerised to suit the requirements of a non-stick universe.

Unlike Cynthia, my satsang WAS recorded (in 1976 in Sydney) and one can only be grateful that cassette tape is a perishable material.

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 11:54:22 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Michael McDonald
Subject: Re: I'd also like to apologise
Message:
Hi Micheal,

Yes, it is fortunate that cassette tapes deterioriate over the years. In our little premie band in Hartford, CT, we were recorded, but thankfully, all the tapes are gone.

Best,
Cynthia

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 09:11:51 (EST)
From: Bryn
Email: None
To: Michael McDonald
Subject: Amazing! Thanks.
Message:
I am genuinely grateful for your apology! What a fantastic forum this is that can promote such healing! Banjo Patterson is one of my favourites-and no one gets one over on ol' Banjo, so no need to apologise to him. It is strange the way authors you rip-off can get you even from beyond the grave. Fortunately for me, my local devotional hits died with the community. God how I longed for universal premie recognition as a songwriter and muso. It is all so horrible to recall.
Thanks again.
love Bryn
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Date: Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 18:58:38 (EST)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Searcher
Subject: Songwriters, and they were not 'he'
Message:
Lord of the Universe was written by Lynne Domenico and Joy. Joy died before I received Knowledge (I rec'd K in April 1973). Her whole band was traveling to play at a program with Mata Ji and I believe they were traveling with very little sleep (typical in those early service-mad days), someone fell asleep at the wheel, and some of the band, maybe the whole band, died. I believe they were called 'The Bliss Band.'

Lynne Domenico used to live in the ashram in SF and then LA, and was at some point in the 80s at the Office of Guru Maharaji in Florida. I haven't seen her in years; she was always a wonderful soul.

It's a funny parody of the current revisionism, though.

--f

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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 01:25:41 (EST)
From: Hey Francesca
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: What is the story with One Foundation?
Message:
Do you know who is left from that band? What is Kim Fields doing?
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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 09:04:45 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: Hey Francesca
Subject: Re: What is the story with One Foundation?
Message:
See the current Visions Catalogue. Still singing loud and clear, altough Daya hitting the scene back at Long Beach a few years back knocked her off the diva throne. It was interesting to watch the band take a back seat to her. M gave them all coaching lessons on how one sings to him....no excessive gyrations (sp), no excessive handmovements, etc etc etc as in no excessive feeling. Touching one's heart was allowed.
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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 09:11:00 (EST)
From: But only if....
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: Re: What is the story with One Foundation?
Message:
Must be pre-approved to do service of any type these day. Coming from sincerity is a thing of the past.
[ you pass muster ]
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Date: Thurs, Nov 15, 2001 at 09:16:47 (EST)
From: Wow!
Email: None
To: But only if....
Subject: Re: What is the story with One Foundation???
Message:
that it was simply a name for products produced by EV. This is the first time I've seen this. So how does a not for profit church have a 'charitable' organization that sells only products promoting one person's belief system? And Visions always said it was seperate from EV.....tsk tsk tsk
[ i didn't realize ]
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Date: Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 18:45:02 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Searcher
Subject: Well that explains it all...
Message:
Jeez and all those years I spent thinking I missed the boat with the Lord of the (Real) Universe but all I really missed out on was the Lord of the Universe of Love.

I should have listened with my heart, I guess.

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