Ex-Premie Forum 7 Archive
From: Nov 26, 2001 To: Nov 30, 2001 Page: 2 of: 5


Moley -:- Happy Birthday Nigel my true love -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 19:13:22 (EST)
__ AJW -:- Avaguddunscousgit (nt) -:- Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 12:00:20 (EST)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Hope you got what you wanted on your birthday... -:- Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 12:22:01 (EST)
__ magiclara -:- Happy Birthday Nigel from round t'corner. . -:- Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 08:54:02 (EST)
__ John McG -:- yeah, from me too -:- Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 08:05:17 (EST)
__ Joy -:- Happy Birthday Nigel (but tinged w/sadness) -:- Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 04:25:39 (EST)
__ Loafie -:- Re: Happy Birthday Nigel my true love -:- Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 02:40:51 (EST)
__ Brian S -:- Happy Birthday Nigel, All the best -:- Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 00:09:11 (EST)
__ __ Richard -:- Happy Birthday Nigel -:- Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 00:31:31 (EST)
__ __ Richard -:- software glitch = duplicate post -:- Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 00:30:05 (EST)
__ Deborah -:- Re: Happy Birthday Nigel, Moley's true love -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 23:52:10 (EST)
__ Joe -:- To Sir Nigel of Beatletown -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 23:15:01 (EST)
__ __ Barbara -:- R U guys gittin' hitched? -:- Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 01:22:10 (EST)
__ __ Marianne -:- Watch out, Joe and Kevin -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 23:21:48 (EST)
__ PatC -:- Happy Birthday Nigel...... -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 21:16:52 (EST)
__ Kelly -:- Re: Happy Birthday Nigel my true love -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 20:43:08 (EST)
__ Marianne -:- Re: Happy Birthday Nigel my true love -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 20:32:31 (EST)
__ __ Robyn -:- Re: Happy Birthday Nigel my true love -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 22:24:57 (EST)
__ tgghfgz -:- Re: Hagfhppy Birthday Nigel my true love -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 20:28:58 (EST)
__ __ Moley channelling Nigel -:- Nigel's message -:- Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 14:04:47 (EST)
__ __ __ deborah -:- Words of the wise ;) [nt] -:- Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 17:37:01 (EST)

Save for Rainy Day -:- Guru Ratings -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 16:51:39 (EST)
__ Brian S -:- Interesting, what a collection of cultmongers -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 22:55:49 (EST)
__ JHB -:- It's an Osho site -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 18:02:22 (EST)

gerry -:- I'm dumping Hotboards for a new format -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 12:56:56 (EST)
__ PatC -:- Great! Hotboards stinks. NT -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 13:07:28 (EST)
__ __ janet -:- new password? how to obtain? -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 20:22:23 (EST)
__ __ __ Sir Dave -:- David's list went the way of Schindler's -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 21:01:10 (EST)
__ Cynthia -:- Whatever you say, boss :) -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 13:02:19 (EST)
__ __ gerry -:- Re: Whatever you say, boss :) -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 13:20:09 (EST)

magiclara -:- Pat C It was me -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 09:44:12 (EST)
__ PatC -:- Hi Mags.. -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 13:01:51 (EST)
__ Barry -:- sorry to interupt this thread(ot)Hey Gerry? -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 12:42:06 (EST)
__ __ gerry -:- Hotboards Hijinks -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 13:07:06 (EST)
__ __ PatC -:- Link thingy don't work, Bar = NT -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 13:04:15 (EST)

JHB -:- A question for 'recent' exes -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 04:13:46 (EST)
__ Pat D (posted by JHB) -:- Re: A question for 'recent' exes -:- Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 03:44:48 (EST)
__ Jethro -:- Question to JHB -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 23:05:10 (EST)
__ __ JHB -:- Re: Question to JHB -:- Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 02:05:04 (EST)
__ Richard -:- Re: A question for 'recent' exes -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 22:35:29 (EST)
__ __ Marianne -:- Postie and other anonymous posters -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 22:53:58 (EST)
__ __ __ Brian Smith -:- A big step in the exiting process -:- Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 00:43:56 (EST)
__ __ __ Richard -:- Re: Postie and other anonymous posters -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 23:03:00 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Thanks and other thoughts -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 23:18:50 (EST)
__ janet -:- Re: A question for 'recent' exes -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 20:51:51 (EST)
__ __ Brian S -:- Great Post Janet -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 21:51:58 (EST)
__ __ Michael McDonald -:- Re: A question for 'recent' exes -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 21:26:31 (EST)
__ Kelly -:- Re: A question for 'recent' exes -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 20:16:36 (EST)
__ Chuck S. -:- Recent almost 1 year ago... -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 19:00:45 (EST)
__ Brian Smith -:- My Recent Ex Story -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 18:57:08 (EST)
__ __ Chuck S. -:- Mishler's interview, then Dettmer's revelations... -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 20:31:14 (EST)
__ __ Joe -:- Thanks for your post, Brian -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 20:02:51 (EST)
__ __ __ Brian S -:- You're Welcome, & Thank You Joe -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 21:58:20 (EST)
__ Jerry -:- Re: A question for 'recent' exes -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 13:25:23 (EST)
__ __ Jerry -:- So much for passwords -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 13:26:48 (EST)
__ __ __ JHB -:- Re: So much for passwords -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 13:58:36 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Joe -:- John, just sent you an email. Thanks. (nt) -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 15:15:55 (EST)
__ magiclara -:- Re: A question for 'recent' exes -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 08:57:55 (EST)
__ __ magiclara -:- Re: A question for 'recent' exes -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 09:10:59 (EST)

RichMandrake -:- the SD Program...First and Apology... -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 03:35:51 (EST)
__ Deborah -:- Why don't you stop check -:- Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 03:25:53 (EST)
__ Brian Smith -:- The brighter side of all of this -:- Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 01:25:35 (EST)
__ __ Jim -:- How wimpy are we anyway? -:- Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 11:54:23 (EST)
__ __ __ Jerry -:- Why bother, Jim? -:- Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 19:04:42 (EST)
__ Tonette -:- Chicken! -:- Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 00:43:53 (EST)
__ __ Richard -:- Cheap shot Tonette -:- Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 13:02:02 (EST)
__ __ __ Deborah -:- Teasing, not a Cheap shot Richard -:- Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 18:00:54 (EST)
__ bill -:- You do enough just posting here Rich -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 22:33:40 (EST)
__ janet -:- things i would probably utter -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 22:32:35 (EST)
__ Rich W -:- That's the funniest thing -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 21:01:12 (EST)
__ __ Gail -:- Re: That's the funniest thing -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 21:24:51 (EST)
__ __ __ Deborah -:- So, would I--Maha is the coward -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 23:22:47 (EST)
__ michael donner -:- Re: the SD Program...First and Apology... -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 20:57:28 (EST)
__ __ RichMandrake -:- Response to Donner, et al... -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 23:45:47 (EST)
__ AJW -:- Hey Richard. -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 17:26:46 (EST)
__ __ Gail -:- Hey Anth -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 17:38:26 (EST)
__ Jerry -:- Don't get down on yourself -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 16:47:00 (EST)
__ Gregg -:- What a Clown! -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 15:45:08 (EST)
__ Deborah -:- Deliver the skinny on Marolyn & kids -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 15:07:53 (EST)
__ Chuck S. -:- Thank you for sharing this, it's great stuff... -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 14:51:05 (EST)
__ Cynthia -:- Rich...No need for apologies... -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 13:59:39 (EST)
__ __ Richard -:- Yes, Rich...No need for apologies... -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 15:23:21 (EST)
__ PatC -:- Terrific story, Rich -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 13:21:41 (EST)
__ Joe -:- The cards were stacked, Rich -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 12:06:59 (EST)
__ Jim -:- How to Confront Maharaji in Public -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 11:34:12 (EST)
__ Vicki -:- Re: the SD Program...First and Apology... -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 10:36:42 (EST)
__ __ michael donner -:- Re: the SD Program...First and Apology... -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 10:57:44 (EST)
__ __ __ Gail MacDougall -:- Richard Mandrake--How did you get in to see MJ? -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 17:36:04 (EST)

Tonette -:- Words that Maharaji has bastardized -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 00:40:48 (EST)
__ Jerry -:- How's about... LIFE! -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 19:38:01 (EST)
__ Kelly -:- The one word you've all forgotten! -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 18:55:00 (EST)
__ __ suchabanana -:- btw,Happy #1, Toejamanand [nt] -:- Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 00:55:09 (EST)
__ Joe -:- Breath, gratitude, and LOVE (nt) -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 17:36:05 (EST)
__ Richard -:- Elan Vital [nt] -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 15:26:21 (EST)
__ __ Michael McDonald -:- Re: Elan Vital -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 17:53:18 (EST)
__ __ __ Richard -:- Re: Elan Vital -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 21:01:39 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Michael McDonald -:- Re: Elan Vital -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 21:20:27 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Inside Edition -:- -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 22:36:47 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Inside Edition -:- -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 22:36:47 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Inside Edition -:- -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 22:36:45 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Inside Edition -:- -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 22:36:45 (EST)
__ suchabanana -:- Re: Words that Maharaji has bastardized -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 14:48:01 (EST)
__ Vicki -:- Re: Words that Maharaji has bastardized -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 11:39:40 (EST)
__ __ Vicki -:- Do swans count? (nt) -:- Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 00:53:46 (EST)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Lotus.... -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 14:37:34 (EST)
__ Cynthia -:- Re: Words that Maharaji has bastardized -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 07:45:39 (EST)
__ __ Tonette -:- The one that is the most noxious to me is: -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 23:39:34 (EST)
__ janet -:- Re: Words that Maharaji has bastardized -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 04:39:25 (EST)
__ __ Tonette -:- It's okay Janet, probably web TV snafu -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 23:31:42 (EST)
__ __ janet -:- 1 more try? -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 05:01:26 (EST)
__ __ __ janet -:- Re: 2 more tries? -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 05:07:23 (EST)
__ __ __ __ janet -:- Re: too trying. screw it -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 05:09:57 (EST)
__ __ janet -:- with html added... -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 04:51:05 (EST)
__ Brian Smith -:- Re: Words that Maharaji has bastardized -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 00:57:42 (EST)
__ __ Tonette -:- I left that one out on purpose! -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 01:02:46 (EST)
__ __ __ Brian Smith -:- Re: I left that one out on purpose! -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 02:04:58 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Tonette -:- Knowledge and Maharaji stunts human growth -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 02:25:00 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Brian Smith -:- How True -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 02:47:42 (EST)
__ __ __ Deborah -:- Killing the Buddha -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 01:10:45 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Tonette -:- Oh no, I HAVE REALIZED KNOWLEDGE -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 01:53:33 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- L.O.L...One step ahead is right [nt] -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 15:11:09 (EST)

Deborah -:- Maha, Stalin and Cult poetry -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 00:24:10 (EST)
__ JHB -:- Great stuff, Deborah! -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 16:37:56 (EST)
__ __ Deborah -:- Hi John, do you know of Eisenstein (OT) -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 16:54:54 (EST)
__ PatC -:- Re: Maha, Stalin and Cult poetry -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 02:38:07 (EST)
__ __ Deborah -:- Rent or buy the movie, it's amazing -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 16:48:03 (EST)
__ __ __ PatC -:- the movie's on my list [nt] -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 17:12:14 (EST)

Michael McDonald -:- If you think things are tense here, -:- Wed, Nov 28, 2001 at 22:12:13 (EST)

Pat :C)onlon -:- Premies vs cult agents provocateurs -:- Wed, Nov 28, 2001 at 21:30:59 (EST)
__ gerry -:- guesss what Ithink they have the PW -:- Wed, Nov 28, 2001 at 21:46:04 (EST)
__ __ bill -:- Re: guesss what I think they have the PW -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 00:45:24 (EST)
__ __ __ bill -:- on my personal warfront -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 01:05:07 (EST)
__ __ __ Deborah -:- How does Mili have access to your email -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 01:02:51 (EST)
__ __ __ __ bill -:- Re: How does Mili have access to your email -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 01:08:25 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Your email yes, but not your password -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 01:14:18 (EST)
__ __ PatC -:- I'm not surprised. -:- Wed, Nov 28, 2001 at 22:39:42 (EST)
__ __ __ Deborah -:- Yes, that's the way to go -:- Wed, Nov 28, 2001 at 23:11:32 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Brian Smith -:- The best defense is a good offense -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 00:11:37 (EST)
__ __ __ We could always buy -:- First Class :) NT -:- Wed, Nov 28, 2001 at 22:58:43 (EST)
__ __ Deborah -:- Gerry, the filament is eroding -:- Wed, Nov 28, 2001 at 22:07:14 (EST)
__ __ Jim -:- Good going, Ger -:- Wed, Nov 28, 2001 at 22:05:23 (EST)


Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 19:13:22 (EST)
From: Moley
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Happy Birthday Nigel my true love
Message:
I'm yours forever and ever ****************************************************************************xxxxxx&*(!)***(!)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 12:00:20 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Moley
Subject: Avaguddunscousgit (nt)
Message:
ntanmhe
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 12:22:01 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Hope you got what you wanted on your birthday...
Message:
Hi Nigel,

I'm positive you had a great birthday. You and Moley are so much fun to have here especially since you found love together. You are so cute....new love....it's wonderful!

:):):)
Love,
Cynthia

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 08:54:02 (EST)
From: magiclara
Email: None
To: Moley
Subject: Happy Birthday Nigel from round t'corner. .
Message:
Have a great day.
Love Mags
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 08:05:17 (EST)
From: John McG
Email: None
To: Moley
Subject: yeah, from me too
Message:
I won't be yours forever - or not till we know each other better - but a happy birthday nonetheless!!

John

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 04:25:39 (EST)
From: Joy
Email: None
To: Moley
Subject: Happy Birthday Nigel (but tinged w/sadness)
Message:
Hope you have a lovely birthday Nigel, but it probably must be tinged with a little sadness at the passing of George Harrison (Liverpool must be in mourning?). Still, it couldn't be any worse than what happened on my birthday, which was September 11. When intense things happen on your birthday I think it's all the more poignant, since you're kind of open and vulnerable on that day, and don't need any further reminders of your own mortality.

Anyhow, why am I rambling on in this morose vein? Have a wonderful day celebrating life, despite death and destruction all around us. I so much appreciate your amazing posts on the Forum, and will be calling you and Moley again soon.

Love to you both,
Joy

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 02:40:51 (EST)
From: Loafie
Email: None
To: Moley
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Nigel my true love
Message:
Happy Birthday Mr Longhurst !!!

yay !

Hip Hip....

Loafie
xx

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 00:09:11 (EST)
From: Brian S
Email: None
To: Moley
Subject: Happy Birthday Nigel, All the best
Message:
to you. Thanks for all of the effort you have put into making this forum and more interesting and informative place with you great posts.

Best regards to Moley too

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 00:31:31 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Brian S
Subject: Happy Birthday Nigel
Message:
Let's make in unanimous - hurrah for Nigel!

I know you are very special here but I forget - are you the Generator, Operator or Destroyer? In any case, it's great to know you were born in a human body like the rest of us and have a birthday to celebrate. Cheers.

Richard

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 00:30:05 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Brian S
Subject: software glitch = duplicate post
Message:
Happy Birthday again.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 23:52:10 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Moley
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Nigel, Moley's true love
Message:
Hope there's some fireworks for you tonight. Here's some from me.
[ Cel-e-bra-tion time. C'mon ]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 23:15:01 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Moley
Subject: To Sir Nigel of Beatletown
Message:
Happy Birthday, and Moley, that is so sweet.

So, are there bells in the future? Come on...you can tell us. Be sure to register with some online companies for those of us out of the country.

BTW, I think Kevin and I are coming to the UK next year. I hope to get to meet both of you.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 01:22:10 (EST)
From: Barbara
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: R U guys gittin' hitched?
Message:
Like Joe, I want to know too.

Happy birthday, Nigel, and best to Moley.

I, too, might be in the UK next year as I am helping some friends produce a documentary on Ken Campbell, the visionary and insane raconteur of Liverpool.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 23:21:48 (EST)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Watch out, Joe and Kevin
Message:
Given your valuable contributions here Joe, the ex- premie event that is likely to be organized on your behalf on the Other Side of the Pond will be a huge blow out.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 21:16:52 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Moley
Subject: Happy Birthday Nigel......
Message:
.....and may you have many many more.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 20:43:08 (EST)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: Moley
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Nigel my true love
Message:
Nige,

Have a wonderful time...but what's this bout getting married, I thought we HAD AN UNDERSTANDING?

Moley,
do you know what you're getting yourself into?
A lifetime of analytical mayhem!
love Kelly

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 20:32:31 (EST)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Moley
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Nigel my true love
Message:
Happy Birthday sweetie! Have a pint for me. Are you 30 yet? Hugs to the both of you.

Mar

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 22:24:57 (EST)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Nigel my true love
Message:
Dear Nige,
Happy Birthday! :) I was making a visit to wish you happy birthday, how nice Moley got to it first. Have a great day!
Love to you both,
Robyn
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 20:28:58 (EST)
From: tgghfgz
Email: None
To: Moley
Subject: Re: Hagfhppy Birthday Nigel my true love
Message:
nrh
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 14:04:47 (EST)
From: Moley channelling Nigel
Email: None
To: tgghfgz
Subject: Nigel's message
Message:
Nigel says he'll be offline til Monday (actually, truth is, I have got him in bondage in a darkened room)....
But he says he's very touched by all your nice messages, and he said the following (just before I put the gag on)...

'Here's my birthday message to everybody...
'Always try to walk two miles in the other man's shoes.
That way, the other man will be two miles away and you'll have his shoes' '

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 17:37:01 (EST)
From: deborah
Email: None
To: Moley channelling Nigel
Subject: Words of the wise ;) [nt]
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 16:51:39 (EST)
From: Save for Rainy Day
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Guru Ratings
Message:
Here's some fun for a rainy day.
[ Guru Ratings ]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 22:55:49 (EST)
From: Brian S
Email: None
To: Save for Rainy Day
Subject: Interesting, what a collection of cultmongers
Message:
I see our Boy doesn't get much respect at all, in comparision to some of these alledged realized beings anyway. Just one mark for fledgling development as a master.

This is actually a much higher ranking than he deserves. At least they put him in the kindergarden or apprentice stage. I wonder how many marks he would lose if they knew all of the facts about his sordid affairs.

He does have the distinction of being one of the few with an Anti link next to his name indicating opposition. Not all of them do, but then this part is easy for me to understand why.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 18:02:22 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Save for Rainy Day
Subject: It's an Osho site
Message:
Although the list of gurus is quite interesting, it's quite clearly not objective.

John.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 12:56:56 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: All
Subject: I'm dumping Hotboards for a new format
Message:
As well as getting a new server. We are getting too large to continue using Hotboards. We've simply outgrown them and with a little luck, I will have the new joint (a vast improvemnet I assure you) running in day or so.

I'll put a mirror site of EPO on my server as well as hosting the forum archives. I'd be happy to host individual pages as well.

I'll keep this board up for a while longer and use it to point to the new site.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 13:07:28 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Great! Hotboards stinks. NT
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 20:22:23 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: new password? how to obtain?
Message:
this place is mindtwisting with password access. will the new place have password posting? how will we get the password? woudl sir dave's list be a good way? i don't want to run into a brick wall like i did this last time.
remember--us webtv animals are slightly different.
remember my troubles of F5?

AND NO MORE SHARING OF PASSWORDS, YOU IDIOTS! HAVENT YOU LEARNED YOUR LESSON YET?

THAT INCLUDES YOU, JIM. OF ALL PEOPLE.
AND DONT GIVE ME YOUR ELEGANT WHINING AND DODGING. THAT MAKES TWICE THAT YOU'VE GONE BEHIND THE BACKS OF THE ONE IN CHARGE BECAUSE YOU STILL THINK YOUR EGO IS MORE POWERFUL THAN MURPHY'S LAW, AND TWICE THAT MURPHY HAS BLOWN UP IN YOUR FACE, AND OURS.

TO BE CRUDE, JIM--FROM NOW ON, NO MATTER HOW MUCH IT MAY DELIGHT YOU TO KNOW YOU HAVE IT, ' KEEP IT IN YOUR PANTS AND DON'T GO AROUND SHOWING IT TO ANYONE ELSE'. GOT THAT? ITS FOR YOU TO SEE, AND NO ONE ELSE.
THAT GOES FOR PASSWORDS , EMAIL , ADDRESSES, url'S AND ANYTHING ELSE YOU HAVE SHARED IN THE PAST THAT BACKFIRED HERE.
IF YOU GOTTA GO SHARING ANYTHING, SHARE THE TECHNIQUES--OK? THAT'S A SECRET YOU CAN TRULY REVEAL TO SOMEONE'S DETRIMENT.
GRRRRR.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 21:01:10 (EST)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: David's list went the way of Schindler's
Message:
It's all in the past. But I don't think they'll make a film about mine.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 13:02:19 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Whatever you say, boss :)
Message:
Sounds good to me, will it be passworded?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 13:20:09 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Re: Whatever you say, boss :)
Message:
It's the real deal with all the whizbang stuff. It will be esy to monitor and control any would-be disruptors and it's going to be more convenient to use with many more features. I'll tell ya, I just found out about it yesterday and downloaded it so I'm not totally versed on it yet.

Right now,i f I can get back to it between email and here, I'll set up my new domain and sign up for the new server. Just like the big kids. ;)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 09:44:12 (EST)
From: magiclara
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Pat C It was me
Message:
Hi Pat
I tried to respond to you lower down where you asked me if I had sent you two e mails requesting the password but it wouldn't let me post.Yes it was me who sent two e mails. Sorry you know what I am like on computers. I used the wrong one first then I used mine then I realised I should have mailed Gerry. So those two were me and not trolls.
Love Mags
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 13:01:51 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: magiclara
Subject: Hi Mags..
Message:
Thanks for letting me know.

Hugs, P

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 12:42:06 (EST)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: magiclara
Subject: sorry to interupt this thread(ot)Hey Gerry?
Message:
i tryed posting one of my toons on F7, but after putting the p-word in the link was not there. are things set up different now. like no more link posting. I'm stumped?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 13:07:06 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: Hotboards Hijinks
Message:
Yeah, Barry this software with the pass protection on is too glitchy. Hotboards isn't going to fix it. I've found a much better solution. It will be easy to link toons I assure you.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 13:04:15 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: Link thingy don't work, Bar = NT
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 04:13:46 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: webmaster@ex-premie.org
To: All
Subject: A question for 'recent' exes
Message:
By recent exes I mean anyone who became an ex during the lifetime of www.ex-premie.org, and was aware of the site and/or the ex-premie forum before they became an ex.

In a discussion below I have made assumptions about how people feel when they first come to the EPO site or the forum, and on reflection I realised that I didn't have the evidence for my assumptions, just memory of my own feelings and a few others' personal accounts.

So my question is:-

How did you feel when you first read the EPO site or the forum, and how did you feel when you first posted? Also, if you have never yet posted, I would be very interested to hear from you about your feelings towards the EPO site and the forum. If you want, you can post here or email me at the above address.

Thanking you all in advance for your help in this.

John Brauns

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 03:44:48 (EST)
From: Pat D (posted by JHB)
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Re: A question for 'recent' exes
Message:
Hi John,I'm sending this as e-mail because I don't have the password. Maybe you could post it(the e-mail) on the forum for me & send me the word of power. I only realised yesterday that was the new dispensation.
Not one that I agree with,but then I'm one of those old buggers who is nostalgic for the days when you didn't need to lock the doors, & it isn't my house anyway.

I would've applied to Gerry but it seems he's infected & there's a problem with the machinery.

After satsang was abolished '84, I drifted out of direct involvement in the cult, lived abroad for 10 yrs, carried on with the meds, missed the video era ( apart from the odd one) but still believed that PPS fucking Rawat was, in some way never examined, the incarnation of God.

During the 90's I went to see him probably once a year when he was in England or Europe, & became aware through talking to old friends that this new fangled thing , the Internet, was being used by deranged & twisted bongoes to attack the Master. That would've been around '96-'97.

We got our 1st computer in '95 (what's all this we shit, my wife got into sussing it out & I dabbled around)
We got connected to the Internet in August 2000 & I started trying to work out how to use it by finding sites to do with GMJ. Et Voila ....EPO.

I was horrified frankly,there it all was , information about all sorts of aspects that I had often wondered about but dismissed from my mind, as per instructions, as irrelevant to the 'experience'.

I knew immediately that it was likely to be true. Too many correspondences with half remembered stories & personal recollections (esp. on the Journeys section),too much information well presented & carefully researched.......just too much. It freaked me out completely for a couple of weeks whilst I read through it all( & R e drek's, a masterpiece) site for hours on end into the small hours. I thought I might have a nervous breakdown, then I got angry.

The forum seemed a very wild & dangerous place when I got round to looking at it. Lots of barbed comments & fighting over points of view. I knew , & this is still true today, that my typing speed & amount of time available to post, couldn't ever enable me to take part in anything approaching a conversation in a way that I would wish.

I decided to post on the forum partly because I wanted to make a public statement that I had been betrayed in my soul, & partly as an act of solidarity with all the people whose experience of GMJ had been so much worse than mine(the ashram premies). I was very paranoid that EV would target me in some fiendish legal way that I didn't understand & that I would be ridiculed by ex-premies.

Neither happened: in fact I often got a reply to my posts even though they were mainly shouting & raving, & once someone very kindly offered his e-mail address if I wanted to talk about the whole business in private.

The feelings of stepping off the diving board into the abyss ,I had those, I don't think there is a way to make the 1st step easier.You either want to put your pennyworth in or not. If you don't ,why should you , & if you do, watch out ...you'll stop watching tv.

If it ain't broke don't fix it, & it's far from being broke.

Hope you're getting frosty days in Latvia(good for killing the germs), here in Blighty I don't have to wear a hat whilst I'm typing, unlike this time last year.

All the best : Pat Dorrity

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 23:05:10 (EST)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Question to JHB
Message:
How do I access archives of F1 and F2?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 02:05:04 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: Re: Question to JHB
Message:
Jethro,

Go to the forum archives page, where it says 'archives for forums 1-4 are located here', click here, and page down.

Easy peasy,

John.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 22:35:29 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Re: A question for 'recent' exes
Message:
I've said it before but will retell it here. I had already made a significant break with M&K in 1987. I had done a lot of personal work and saw clearly that I no longer needed an authority figure like M in my life. At that point I stopped practicing K but, being in Miami where many events took place, I went to one or two more. It was my community of old friends and going to events was something I had done for years. An old habit. I moved to the an island near Seattle and by default lost the intensity of the Miami premie community. I was high on life and the renewal of moving to a wonderful place so M&K was not on my mind.

After not seeing M or practicing K for 7 years, I started to feel a need to have 'that feeling' again. It was mainly the community of fellow pilgrims that I missed. M did a public program in Seattle and I went. No big buzz. Then he did a K review in Vancouver, BC. It was actually quite enjoyable and, contrary to the new DVD K-Lite events, I recall M stayed there the whole time doing the techniques. That was impressive. The big guy comes down from the throne and practices what he preaches. So I figured he had, in fact, trimmed the trip down to just the meditation.

After that I started meditating again and went to the first big international event in Long Beach. I went to three of those big events and each one became more tedious. Seeing my old friends from everywhere was really great but I became more squirmy trying to focus on M speaking.

I would ask my friends, what was up with the big devotional thing. I had thought M had eliminated all of the old Hindu trappings but they were back, Divine Shopping Mall, devotional videos and all. In a way, I felt betrayed that he was saying one thing but doing another. Of course, the revisionists would say I was just projecting my ideas on M who, after all, is enignmatic and not to be pinned down. Whatever.

The last year I saw M was at Long Beach in 1997. That year I started reading the various fora. (Here's where your question gets answered John). My first impression was 'great gossip but these guys are whiners stuck back in the 70's'. At the time the information on EPO didn't shock me. But I felt mostly superior because I had not only rejected M & K but had chosen to bring it back into my life. It was a choice, not a result of brainwashing. Plus much of the info was like 'so what'. 'Big deal, so he gets laid and drinks. No biggy.' I'm sure I was protecting my ego from the big letdown of finding out I had been misled. The raucousness of the early forum turned me off but the Mishler tapes and other credible information hit home.

Knowing what was presented on EPO and then going to Long Beach was the last straw, though. For the first time I was not trying to excuse away all the inconsistancies and I began to feel and think the way I had when I quit M&K in 1987. It's a big show but I don't need an authority figure.

The first time I posted last year as Postie, it was because of Dettmers being stonewalled in his attempt to get Susan's story about abuse by Jagdeo to M. It was good anonymous fun but eventually I outed myself to the people I knew and a few others. Then when Donner started posting, I contacted him and he asked 'What's with the alias thing?' It was a Koan I couldn't answer so I posted using my real name. That first day my palms sweated and I was extremely energized for days. Fear forward. Instead of living in fear of being known, I chose to stand up and let it be known that I was comfortable with my choice to not follow M.

Richard

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 22:53:58 (EST)
From: Marianne
Email: MarianneDB@aol.com
To: Richard
Subject: Postie and other anonymous posters
Message:
Postie, watching you and others who were struggling with posting here and making your identities public has been one of the wonders of the forum. Observing the transformation you have each gone through is enlightening and inspiring.

Much love, Marianne

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 00:43:56 (EST)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: A big step in the exiting process
Message:
for me was using my full name, I originally posted with just my first name, then because at that time there was also another Brian in the mix, I used 'brian too' as a handle briefly.

My commitment took a quantum leap however when I fully disclosed my identity and stood up to be counted.

I just never liked the mask of anonymity, I shed it right away after I got my feet wet here and have never looked back or regretted it.

I think everyone comes to that point at some time or another, I am glad that I handled it right out of the gate.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 23:03:00 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Re: Postie and other anonymous posters
Message:
Thanks Marianne. Your welcoming presence here, as well as others, made it easy to post in the big'ning. That's one reason I try to be supportive of anyone with the courage to say what they think here.

Being non-confrontational, I waited until I didn't feel like I needed to change anyone's mind. And at this point in my life, I have virtually zero investment in what someone believes or thinks. There are all types of people in and out of M's world and each one has to decide what is true for themselves. I tried once to send an old premie aquaintance the URL to EPO and was met with a violent reaction. So now I just don't bother. The information is there for those who want to see.

Richard who was Postie but now I'm found

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 23:18:50 (EST)
From: Marianne
Email: MarianneDB@aol.com
To: Richard
Subject: Thanks and other thoughts
Message:
Thanks for the thanks. I always learn something from observing how people process getting involved here. Having had the chance to meet exes in the US and Europe, I found that everyone was even more wonderful in person than in writing. Like I said in a post down below, the risk of posting is rewarded with many loyal and genuine friendships.

I've never felt that it was my job to convince people to leave the cult either. Doing that seems like the flip side of the satsang coin to me. I am amazed that the disruptive premie trolls think that anyone who dares argue with them is intent on converting others to the ex -premie viewpoint. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

Fondly, Marianne

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 20:51:51 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Re: A question for 'recent' exes
Message:
I must say, i used to be appalled at the tone here before i exed a year ago in october. my son's father used to print various parts of the site and mail them to me, and most of it I read and just shook my head. it was so profane, so juvenile, and seemed to go on nothing more than imaginary and largely wild speculation, without a whole lot of substance. it struck me then as just a ragtag rabble of troublemakers, hecklers and loose change with no real purpose or direction, and so i never came to the site on my own.
I was more or less forced to appear here on the forum in order to clear my name, once i posted something on the great wordwide linkup and learned that roger eDrek was using my post to ridicule me in absentia here for his own amusement.
so i came in and made a sarcastic correction of that impression, and was drawn in by questioners like JIm, who called me up and asked me my feelings and where i stood.
If not for that, I might still be out there, vainly trying to cling to the monstrosity that mutated out of what was once a remarkable social effort, straining to remain a member of a cruel, selfish, snotty, hideous organization that was making it plainer and plainer that they didn't want me and no longer considered me counted among the accepted or prized.
I think the appearance of Dettmers shocked the shit out of everything.And then the defection of high ups who brought previously secret facts with them, as well as the unmasking and coming out of various longtime anonymice who revealed their identities and stood clean before the world--I thinkthat changed the overall tone of the enterprise from one of malicious mischief to serious exposé with respectability.
I am happy i came onboard when i did. I like the fact that everything the opposition has tried to do to destroy us has only taught us more and made us stronger, better, smarter and quicker to triumph. Even the treacherous internal betrayals and internecine clashes have not destroyed us. We rock!

As the martial arts masters have counseled, from time immemorial--
cherish and value your enemy:
an excellent adversary will teach you more in your lifetime than a good friend ever will.

or, as my best friend likes to say
'keep your friends close--but keep your enemies even closer'
...
so with the bullocks made fast in the yoke, and the plow sharpened and down to earth, let us cut the bullshit, and press on. as ye sow, shall ye reap. and i do believe the reaper is going to have a record breaking harvest at the end of the work.

isn't muckraking ever so glorious?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 21:51:58 (EST)
From: Brian S
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Great Post Janet
Message:
You sound fabulous, strong, vibrant and totally committed to the truth. It is good to hear from you
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 21:26:31 (EST)
From: Michael McDonald
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Re: A question for 'recent' exes
Message:
Machiavelli said it first
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 20:16:36 (EST)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Re: A question for 'recent' exes
Message:
When I first read EPO, I had been warned by my friends Mark and Josie Winter, (of Enjoying Life fame…. I hope they are still my friends??!!) that I really should not bother going there, and I remember saying that I have enough problems with my doubting mind anyway…So, I didn’t…., go there for a while, and anyway I was not up to speed with internet technology etc, etc.

This was round about 1997, and when I did find the website, my first impression was that this was a bunch of sad loosers who were totally obsessed with past history. Come on! This was all so long ago; we’ve all changed…moved on…haven’t we?

My friends were in the business of damage limitation, and I got the distinct impression that the whole enterprise was sanctioned by M …and that he was really pleased with the result… For myself, I was dead worried that my husband (never a premie, but a computer buff)) would find it himself through “history” and read all this negative stuff when I was in the business of trying to gently persuade him to join me in receiving the most beautiful gift!

I was most affected by Bob Mischler’s interview. I remember travelling to India in 1975 to follow M. It was his first visit since the family split and we, ( myself and a small band of intrepid travellers), ended up at the ashram in Bihar..this is via Lucknow and many dramas where BBJ was supposed to be lurking with guns!!

Anyway, I remember a particularly hot sweltering afternoon when we were all sheltering under the “punkha” fan..and he told us the story of the family split…..Geez…guns , jewels…murder threats and all. You’d think that might have been a “drip”? But, the point is, I really related to the guy and respected him, and anyway he was Head of DLM worldwide.

I posted a few days ago,” my first anniversary posting” which tells a little about how it felt when I first posted. I’ve left out the whole bit in the middle…another day?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 19:00:45 (EST)
From: Chuck S.
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Recent almost 1 year ago...
Message:
When I first discovered EPO, I felt that somehow the people behind it were twisting things, and that perhaps it really was all just ''misunderstandings'', and exagerations, from just a handful of people. As I read through it, only portions of it at a time, on and off over two years, I looked for evidence to support my ''misunderstandings and exagerations'' theory. During that time, I also looked for Maharaji to do some explaining of how and why these misunderstanings occured. But he never explained anything, but kept exorting us to ''Never Doubt''.

I found myself making excuses for Maharaji, and doing more and more mental backflips and contortions to make it all fit together somehow, and still be o.k. I found it VERY difficult to except the idea that I was in, and was supporting, a cult. The idea was abhorrent, I didn't WANT it to be true. But there was no denying I was finding out lots of things on EPO that had been hidden. I started to connect the dots. The Indian Roots explained a lot for me, explained a lot of things I wanted to know when I first became involved, but there was no information sources I knew of to turn to.

If I had come across the Anderson's website,''Please Consider This'', back when I first encountered EPO, I probably would have found it comforting, at least at first. Very appealing to anyone wanting to deny being involved with a cult. But that sort of thing only ''works'' if you shut of the thinking process, otherwise, that sort of excuse making, and the unwillingness to consider other information, starts to sound like proof that it really IS a cult.

The exposure to new information EPO was providing, over time, forced me to recognize and confront my own mental excusemaking and contortions, and how that made me uncomfortable, and to examine everything to do with Maharaji more closely, deeply and honestly.

This coincided with becoming active in Participation, with video events and committee meetings. We were told that everything was becoming more democratic, and that new imput was welcomed. And I really wanted to be fair to Mahraji, and give him every chance to prove his critics wrong. After a year of Participation, it became clear to me that things were NOT more democratic, but were in fact exactly the opposite; it was all about wearing us down untill we gave in to the status quo, i.e. 'what Maharaji wants'. The invitation to participate was an invitation to become a resource, to put up and shut up.

Understanding the religious roots of Maharaji's schtick, via the information and links on EPO, was really key for me in untangleing the whole game I got suckered into. Not only was it a religion, it was a cult, too. I had been lied to and decieved. When I was able to see the whole, larger picture, the illusions just unravelled and fell apart. I was able to even understand the ''good parts'' of my expriences, and keep those, without having to atribute them to somebody else. I was not a fool for being in a cult, things had been hidden from me, I was deceived. Seeing the larger picture, thanks to EPO, enabled me to salvage my self-respect, and leave, instead of staying and having to sacrifice honesty to blindly believe in cruel hoax.

I've gotten my freedom, honesty and self-respect back, and I'll always be greatful to EPO for that. I've been helped enourmously, and want to help EPO continue, so that it may continue to help others free themselves of the tangled web of deception Maharaji has caught so many in. I'm not on a mission to get people to leave the cult, I merely want premies to have complete information, and thereby, have a real choice. Without information, choice becomes difficult if not impossible, and therefore the deceptions continue. We all need information to be freely shared and made available, and be ALLOWED to scrutinize it, in order to be able to make informed choices, because choice IS freedom.

Being told to ''Leave no room for doubt in your mind'', ''Never doubt the Purity of The Master'' and ''Don't ask me questions, SHUT UP and LISTEN'' just doesn't cut it. It's too self serving for You-Know-Who.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 18:57:08 (EST)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: My Recent Ex Story
Message:
I have probably covered much of what I will reiterate here about my experience with the forum as a recent ex but you ask some very significant and pertinent questions John so here goes.

I was directed here by another premie who had been reading the site, actually I was had been aware of the old site, I came across it before around in 97 but dismissed it as sour grapes. EPO wasn't quite so evolved then, and I had no awareness or inclination to participate in the forum or chat room.

The Mishler tapes back then were the hallmark of that site to me I think. I guess I was not ready to delve into my own entanglement at that point, I only checked in a handful of times and then lost track of the site.

Anyway I came here again about a year ago and to my surprise the conversation was going stronger, lots of people were posting and there was access to important new information by credible sources like M. Dettmers.

Even so, I was still somewhat shocked at first by what I read in the posts, taken aback with the blantant hostility towards M and felt that this was all wrong and what was needed was a little satsang to get these lost souls back on track.

So I decided to jump right in with my first post in the hope of clearing the air, making a point, the tone of which was mostly apologetic for the cult and m. After all I was still a premie and that was my only frame of reference.

My take at time was that is was not M's fault for being bogus, it was my fault for not being able to see past his dysfuntional irredeemable behavior. Anyway I wrote up a fairly good essay to this end and I remember sitting in front of the screen, looking at it feeling a little Biblical like Daniel going in to the lions den.

I sat for a moment, eyes closed Wondering, fearing to myself what will happen if I push the submit button. So in a moment of sure courage I quickly took a stab and hit submit and then sat there in stunned silence pondering the anticipated reaction.

I could hardly wait to get back to the computer the next morning, and I never expected the responses to be so varied everything from understanding, encouragement, advice, thanks for posting, to rejection and hostility the whole gamut was beginning to take shape under my thread that I had started.

I then knew that I would now have to become publicly accountable for my beliefs, that is if I had the courage to. So off I went to meet my accusers and greet some newly found friends here.

The initial exiting process that is to say where I declared both publicly and privately that I have had enough transpired for me quite quickly like within 5 weeks. What helped immensely was for me look through the information posted on the EPO site and continuing to interact posting on the boards with other exe's. The rest was an inside job of being honest with myself and not letting myself off of the hook by running back to old cult comfort zones etc.

What surprised me most was how I started to feel altogether different about myself, I was becoming stronger in my own right as the cult and m trappings weakened. I have now realized that I am too old, and so much wiser now to believe in fairy tales.

Yes, a few dreams have been shattered and given up, but a whole new bold world of reality and personal responsibility has open up for me since I departed.

This is just the beginning for me, it is refreshing and freeing to be able to walk my own walk in life, knowing that I do not need or require the necessity of a master.

The price that goes with it when you surrender the reins of your life to someone else is that you lose control of your own soul, your own identity.

That is too high a price to pay for something which I found that I already have, I just had to learn to trust myself enough to know it.

A big lesson learned this last year, one that I sure that I would never have learned from M.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 20:31:14 (EST)
From: Chuck S.
Email: None
To: Brian Smith
Subject: Mishler's interview, then Dettmer's revelations...
Message:
I think Mishler's interview was the first thing I read on EPO. While it didn't thrill me, it took place long ago, before I got involved with M, and when M was still quite young. And Mishler was not around anymore to ask him questions, so I just made excuses for M.

But Dettmers revalations were facinating. They were more recent, and he was around to answer questions, and he spoke so non-judgementally and calmly. Knowing what he said, I then HAD to scrutinize things more closely, even if I didn't want to. If I didn't, I would always feel I was hiding from something or avoiding something.

Also, up until then, I had always thought, ''Maharaji may have a mistress, but that's his own business, his own father had two wives anyway. But at least M doesn't sleep around casually with his students, just using them for his jollies, like so many of these other trashy gurus one hears about''. When I heard that about M, I really felt I had to find out as much as possible about Dettmer's to scrutinize him and see if he was really a trustworthy source of information, to see if the things he said held up to scrutiny and could be verified by other sources. I have concluded that yes, he is a man of integrity, and a reliable witness. M's unwillingess to answer questions is pathetic in comparison.

The forum for me, seemed much to volitile a place to post as a Premie (in truth, I hadn't read it much), but after I decided to make the break with M, it was very helpful to start posting here. I too was amazed at the variety of responses to my posts. I remember hitting the submit button, and feeling somehow, my world would never be the same again. And of course, it hasn't been the same, it's gotten better!

It's interesting that even though our stories are different, there are some elements that are quite similar, especially the outcome. I really enjoyed your post Brian, thanks!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 20:02:51 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Brian Smith
Subject: Thanks for your post, Brian
Message:
And thanks for all the thought you obviously put into it.

Joe

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 21:58:20 (EST)
From: Brian S
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: You're Welcome, & Thank You Joe
Message:
For the stellar contributions you have made to this forum this past year, I have especially enjoyed so many of your great reads lately.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 13:25:23 (EST)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Re: A question for 'recent' exes
Message:
Hi, John,

I first came across EPO in July of '98. My first impression was that Maharaji must have really hit a nerve with these people to get them so upset over him. Then I printed out all the materials and began reading. I was relieved to see I was not the only one who wasn't getting much out of practicing K since, as a fringe premie, that was my main beef with it. If Knowledge is all that it's cranked up to be, how come it's not

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 13:26:48 (EST)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: So much for passwords
Message:
About two thirds of my post just got destroyed. What gives?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 13:58:36 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Re: So much for passwords
Message:
Jerry,

We've all been experiencing this since Gerry put the password protection on. Suggested solutions include copying the text before posting and then editing the message afterwards. Gerry is moving to new software very soon.

John.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 15:15:55 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: John, just sent you an email. Thanks. (nt)
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 08:57:55 (EST)
From: magiclara
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Re: A question for 'recent' exes
Message:
Hi John
In response to your question. Well I had been a premie in the 70's then drifted off. I never saw m again until 1999 at Manchester. I had heard that things had changed, and he had cleaned things up and got rid of all the concepts that the premies and mahatmas had put on the whole thing. When I saw him I managed to forget that there had ever been the LOTU stuff. I suppose I still had the brainwashed premie mindset that I had in the 70's and thought m was marvelous. Anyway I got sucked back in again. Although I didn't become totally involved I went to see him over the next couple of years when he was in England. So just before Nottingam I saw EPO and was shocked. My first reaction was that it was written by spaced out premies probably acid casualties from the 70's who hadn't practised k and were bitter and twisted. This view was reinforced by premies who I spoke to at Nottingam. Despite being bored to death by the tedious two day event, I was sucked in again by m on the last night. I then decided EPO was rubbish. When I came home I started reading EPO again and realised q what a load of old bol the whole m and k thing was. It happened very fast for me and was a shock. I felt very grateful to the people who had set the site up. I wrote my first post as Clarence Clear and was nervous but was welcomed. Soon after I came a premie had a go at me and it shook me up. I joined recent exes where I found a safe space to deal with my feelings. I started to feel stronger and post on both forums. I would not care now if a premie did have a go at me. I don't post much but usually read the forums. I have now met several of the exes from the forum in real life and had a laugh.
magiclara
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 09:10:59 (EST)
From: magiclara
Email: None
To: magiclara
Subject: Re: A question for 'recent' exes
Message:
I did not mean to imply in the above post that I thought it was the premies and mahatmas who had been resposible for the LOTU stuff. I just read it and realised it came across like that. NO m sat there and lapped it up. I saw him in his pantomine outfit in the 70's with my own eyes. Oh yes I did! Oh no you didn't! Oh yes I did!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 03:35:51 (EST)
From: RichMandrake
Email: None
To: All
Subject: the SD Program...First and Apology...
Message:
I attended the "intimate appointment" with Maharaji this last saturday in San Diego. I had told some of you of my intention to ask Maharaji a very direct question or two. I did not do that. I apologize to those of you who had supported me in that endeavor. Maybe apology is too strong a word. Im disappointed that I did not ask Maharaji a question..or at least make a statement to him and the premies in the room. Im disappointed for myself and for all of us.

I had the opportunity. I was sitting in the third row center..two rows behind and one seat to the right of Marolyn. Maharaji talked for a little over an hour, his big head bobbing as he spouted the usual platitudes. I watched him, trying to smile benignly at him so that he wouldn't sense my ultimate intent and mission. Maharaji finally finished speaking. Then, in a very guarded way, he stated that in the previous programs he had just done he had opened the floor for premies to talk to him..he then VERY clearly told all that he didnt want ANY questions..that he wasnt good at answering questions and that he has the Answer of Answers but not to the questions that people want answered...or some such gibberish.

I had for the last few days been forming questions in my mind..I had talked with Michael Dettmers (a good guy..transparently honest and forthright) and I had determined the question I was going to ask..and how I was going to ask it. I was going to let my sincerity and intent form the exact words as I spoke. The Question would have first expressed that much of what Maharaji had said in his "talk" today was very beautiful and real...the preciousness of life and breath. I would have then stated that for years..I have felt I had somehow disappointed him..and briefly delved into why..and the fact that until recently for some reason..I had Still Believed he was the Lord(and a little bit of why I had believed that). I would have then quickly segued to the fact that recently however I have come to a different understanding of Him..the reason for that being having read and talked to people like Michael Dettmers..Mike Donner..Bob Mischler and other people who have been around you when offstage...Then the Kicker...I would have asked him...Maharaji...these people paint a very convincing picture of you...when not in the public Eye...as someone who is a very different than I had believed....a flawed human being with emotional problems and addictions which would seem to preclude any possibility that you are a Master of the experience of Knowledge...Because these people are very credible, Maharaji..and all say the same thing..I have to ask you...If you arent the Lord or even permanently in touch with the experience of knowledge... by what authority do you claim to own the meditation techniques you call "knowledge"??..and what authority makes you a "Master" of that experience??..

That is what I had planned to say. I was going to raise my hand up immediately when he opened the floor...But his talk about not wanting ANY Questions flustered me...and yes..intimidated me a bit...I felt if I had raised my hand then..It would have looked too strident and disrespectful...and I would have been dismissed off hand..and not been listened to by any of the premies..(that was my feeling/rationalization but it was all happening so quickly)...I decided just to let a few premies speak..and in the meantime I woud try to figure out a way to put things..that would go along with the "no question" edict and then raise my hand.

Well, the Flood channels opened....Maharaji was again on his throne.. The Lord graciously accepting the halting attempts of these small souls to express their undieing gratitude to their Lord......as Premie after Premie thanked Him....Oh Maharaji...Thank you SO Much for this Experience....You have given me SO Much Maharaji...you have saved me so many times....I have had knowledge for _________ years...and it and you are SO Precious to me...Etc..Etc...Etc.....Several people referred to how Maharaji had always been there for them even in their "darkest hour" and one girl repeatedly sprinkled her devotional meanderings with "My Lord" comments...Maharaji in returned..simply beamed or said some brief cordiality..and went on to the next grateful soul.

Well...I was sitting there thinking..what do I do? If I get up now...Its going to Seem REAL Out of place..and Everyone is just gonna think IM a "HATER" and not even listen to what I have to say...The truth was...I was quite upset by this play...I was SO close to Maharaji and had started to "Sense" as opposed to intellectually understanding..the level of Control and Manipulation that Maharaji was putting on these Poor People..(Even in Watching Marolyn and the Kids...but i can get into that more later)...He is a masterful manipulator and does have a Very Convincing Presentation ..(im sure you guys remember)It was Angering me to see him up close and in the Flesh... allowing and encouraging these people in their deluded beliefs about his Divinity. I felt like I was finally Witnessing his Con Game..in Real Time..as it was occurring.

I couldnt figure out in the moment..a way to say what I had to say..without coming across as very angry...and contrasting all the "LOVE" that was in the room..So I didnt raise My Hand. And then the Program was over.

Im sorry I missed this opportunity. 18 years ago, I did raise my hand..here in San Diego..when I Thought I was going to be Confronting the Lord of the Universe. I was scared shitless but I did ask him a very direct and honest and confronting question..He was gracious to me back then..but had evaded answering my question..This was to be my "follow-up".

I was in the 3rd row center..Maharaji was accepting raised hands...and I didnt raise My Hand. I wanted to Expose Him..For what he has done to me..and Us..and what he CONTINUES to do to these Good People. I wanted him to know that he can NO LONGER Manipulate and Bamboozle us with Impunity..I wanted Him to FACE us as he is...without the Illusion that He INtentionally and Maliciously perpetuates. I wanted all this. But I was frozen in a emotional state of both anger in what I was observing..and fear that if I got up I would just make a fool of myself..and be escorted out by armed guards. The risk to return..in the moment..did not look good.

Alas...yesterday..the morning after..I realized how I could have handled this...but the moment was gone...So, I offer to myself and Y'all a small apology for not being the one to finally expose the MahaMindfucker publicly..And I offer myself forgiveness and gratitude..that I no longer have to be chained in the prison of Devotion to a self-perpetuating belief in my own unworthiness and the eternal struggle to surrender my humanity to one who is Most Inhumane. Thanks For listening...Richard M.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 03:25:53 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: RichMandrake
Subject: Why don't you stop check
Message:
You obviously didn'[t get your money's worth. Rich, why would anyone give $100 for a cheap room that someone supposedly picked the tab up on.

He is such a crook.

No wonder it's all hush hush. Of course, they prefer cash.

Someone's going to catch him real soon. I want to see Maha do time for his fraud.

Knowledge, what a scam!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 01:25:35 (EST)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: RichMandrake
Subject: The brighter side of all of this
Message:
It really wouldn't have made much difference to swim against the current by confronting him in that situation anyway Rich, you would have splashed and paddled hard but you would not have not made any forward progress.

Look on the bright side Rich, by not confronting him you saved at least one premie from a huge ass chewing and a lifetime in Hell for letting you slip under the radar.

You did good!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 11:54:23 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Brian Smith
Subject: How wimpy are we anyway?
Message:
I know it's all good intentions and everything but let's face it, Maharaji's a short, fat and ugly little coward. He's the coward, folks, not us. He's the one with everything to hid, everything to be ashamed of and everything to answer for. Not us. He's the Pied Piper, sure, but we're the kids who woke up, left the cave and now, as it pleases us, return to confront him.

We can continue to tell each other how confronting him means nothing but we all know that's not true. Yes, it's not at all necessary. One can walk in a number of ways and never look back. For that matter, even posting here or, more to the point, ever acknowleding that you're an ex isn't really necessary, living well being the best revenge, and all that. But, how could it not make a difference to invade Maharaji's House of Charms and speak out with confidence? How could it not have an extremely salutory effect on others there? It was one thing to see outsiders ridicule or question Maharaji. But when his own former, dedicated and decidedly not 'bongo' followers do so in the name of truth, well, that's really something. For the ex who does it, for the audience and even for Maharaji.

Now, it well might be that, nowithstanding all that, it's just too much psychologically to bear for any one, lone ex to pull this off in such a Maharaji-biased environment. But one of these days it's gonna happen and when it does, and we all hear about it, 1) we'll all wish we had been there and 2) we'll all want our kick at the cat too. Or at least many of us will. But of course that ain't ever gonna happen if we keep telling us that we're too weak, it's too much, etc.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 19:04:42 (EST)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Why bother, Jim?
Message:
Maybe you want your shot at Maharaji to square away things, but me? I think I'm getting too old to care. I don't have that kind of fire in me, and maybe THAT's what it boils down to. Maybe it's just a matter of what you've got in you. The way I see it, Rich just didn't have it in him. You probably do, as do some other exes. I don't and I think there are probably others who don't either. And I don't think it's about wimping out. It's just about being yourself in that situation. Maybe Rich THOUGHT he had something to say to Maharaji, but when he got there he found he didn't. That's my take on it, anyways. Could be wrong, but I think it's something to consider. And besides, Jim, you're the one with the big mouth, not us :)

(You did see the smiley face I hope) :)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 00:43:53 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: RichMandrake
Subject: Chicken!
Message:
Next time take a friend with you to give moral support.

I guarantee you the worst that can happen at a program if you get the chance to ask a difficult question of Maharaji is:
He'll ignore you
Security will lead you to the nearest exit
He won't answer it truthfully
You will make many others wonder if maybe you don't have a point
You'll get beat up outside the hall after the program

What will not happen:
Maharaji will not be able to send you straight to hell
He will not be able to zap you with light brighter than a thousand suns
You will not turn into a rotting pile of vegetables
You will not get an honest forthrite answer

I'm go with you if you're ever in the neighborhood for the next program. Front row seats? How did you mangage that? Smart card was needed? Not at the programs on the East Coast I can report.

Take care, Turkey in the Straw.

Tonette

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 13:02:02 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: Cheap shot Tonette
Message:
Monday morning quarterbacking (goal keeping for non-US residents) won't win the game. I guess you have zero residual programming to deal with. Rich posted here to tell his story and for support not to be made to feel worse about it.

Tonette, I enjoy your contributions as they are thoughtful and witty but I had to call you on this one. That goes for anyone else who thinks they could have grabbed the mike. No one here can say for certainty what they would have done in his place.

Richard

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 18:00:54 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Teasing, not a Cheap shot Richard
Message:
C'mon. Cut Tonette some slack. go back and read her post. Her subject line was ironic.

Look at her post more clearly.

Next time take a friend with you to give moral support.

It's clear from reading Rich's post that he felt alone, without moral support and that magnified his concern. Not to mention that Maha just cowardly announced he would take no questions which through off any mentally prepared feedback.

I guarantee you the worst that can happen at a program if you get the chance to ask a difficult question of Maharaji is:

He'll ignore you
Security will lead you to the nearest exit
He won't answer it truthfully
You will make many others wonder if maybe you don't have a point
You'll get beat up outside the hall after the program

What will not happen:

Maharaji will not be able to send you straight to hell
He will not be able to zap you with light brighter than a thousand suns
You will not turn into a rotting pile of vegetables
You will not get an honest forthrite answer

Tonette, as a friend, wisely challenged whatever ghosts were in the closet and looked at from the best or worse case scenario. She was helping him analyze his fear, not passifying him, nor taunting his inadequacies. She was helping him realize and alleviate the impracticality of fear's cause rather than the effect. She wasn't making fun of him.

I'm go with you if you're ever in the neighborhood for the next program. Front row seats? How did you mangage that? Smart card was needed? Not at the programs on the East Coast I can report.

Furthermore she goes out of her way to offer her friendship, moral and physical support which was her intial advice. Than she highlights a few tricks he did accomplish, helping him see that the glass was half-full, like getting in the bloody program and sitting up front.

Gee, some friend.

Take care, Turkey in the Straw.
Tonette

Nothing like leaving a post on a friendly note, some people. Richard, I think you projected your concerns onto Tonette.

This was a very fair post. He should count himself lucky to have a friend like her, IMO.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 22:33:40 (EST)
From: bill
Email: None
To: RichMandrake
Subject: You do enough just posting here Rich
Message:
Dont sweat it, he is self destructing, and the we are helping,
and it isnt easy to be so front and center to such a delusional
crowd and insane lord.
I would never have asked you to do that.
There are better things to do:)

And some are under way.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 22:32:35 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: RichMandrake
Subject: things i would probably utter
Message:
It's not all that hard to frame things so they don't actually ask a question but they beg to be replied to. I sat and pondered what I would have done when supposedly hemmed in by arbitrary conditions like that, and I think i could have some fun with this sort of floor to speak:
'You know, Maharaji--I'm worried about you. You're getting older all the time, like we all are. We all know you're not going to live forever. You smoke a lot and eat red meat, and you're overweight, so I'm afraid you're going to have a heart attack..and you drink all the time, so Your liver must be getting closer to failure with every passing day..and I know you have a net worth of maybe 50 million dollars and you surround yourself with the best of everything, yet I'm sure it can't make you happy, since material things never can...and you don't have any equals, any true friends you can be with, who can tell it to you straight, who you can admit your deepest fears and worries to, the way the rest of us can, so I'm worried for you. All that money and all those international laws and the way you need to control everything so tightly, I mean-- it must mean you're living in tremendous stresses and you can't see any way to get out of what you've created.
You've spent your whole life doing this, living like this, and I just know that it's going to all come to a head. It's got to. And I can't help thinking about what that will mean when it does.
I mean-you set yourself up for unhappiness: you buy yourself the world's most expensive watches and try to slice time down to the most exact mark--and you're guaranteed to fail at it, because we all know time is a flow , constantly moving, that nothing in the material world can ever stop! And I see you spend untold amounts of money of these things that only upset you in the end, and all I can think of is what you're doing to yourself!
You get so upset, and so angry, you take it out on the only people in the world who care about you, people who believe in you and drop anything to come when you want them--and you ridicule them, and you humiliate them, and you brush them off, you won't listen to them or even just have an ordinary conversation with them! That can't be good for your life!
You told us a long time ago that when you're in school and you're called on to give the answer, if you don't give the right one, when you're made aware of your error, you don't tell everyone 'wow!everything got completely changed around!', you say 'and I was corrected!'
And you have told us that you are human, that you make mistakes,--but you have also told us that we are never to question your purity or your mastery. That leaves you with no one to correct you, your mistakes! We could tell you so much if you would listen! We are not the enemy! I think that like most people, in truth, what you think is against you is imaginary, and that really, you are your own worst enemy, and while you are occupying yourself day and night with things that are actually not worth the time or the cost, you are meanwhile failing to realize the things you are doing to yourself, that are ultimately going to end this whole story, not just for you, but for all of us.
I just wanted you to know that we all see it, and we all can't help but forsee the end if you keep on the way you always have.
If you don't face it, the rule of life is that it will come find you, when the clock has run out of time to make it right. With all your watches, I think that not a one of them can tell you that time accurately.
I just keep thinking about how you're gonna die, and how it's gonna happen, and what's going to happen to all of this, when you do. Especially Marolyn and the family.
That's all I wanted to say. I'm done. IF you want, I can leave.'
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 21:01:12 (EST)
From: Rich W
Email: None
To: RichMandrake
Subject: That's the funniest thing
Message:
I've seen in years!

You guys are all puff puff tough talk when you're in the pack all shored up by one another. But all on your own in front of the imaginary 'enemy' you wilt like dying flowers.
surprise surprise!

You've proved to everyone what everyone knows already

Your a bunch of hot stale air with no substance and no real belief
in what your even thinking. Your honesty Richard M is a real rare thing around these parts, if the rest of the blabbermouths followed your example they might get somewhere in life.

You see 'exes', Richard knows deep down inside himself very well why he had nothing to say to M's face. And he always will.

At least the pwk's who came here had the guts to speak out on their own without any rabble rousing them up from all sides. Most of you are so pathetic cowardly and weak. I'm off.

Time to leave the schoolyard folks, and join the real world.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 21:24:51 (EST)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Rich W
Subject: Re: That's the funniest thing
Message:
I'd confront him.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 23:22:47 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Gail
Subject: So, would I--Maha is the coward
Message:
Funny, how he didn't comment on Maha weaseled out of answering any questions because of the last program.

But NO! He didn't even touch that one.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 20:57:28 (EST)
From: michael donner
Email: None
To: RichMandrake
Subject: Re: the SD Program...First and Apology...
Message:
hi again, i replied below but was hoping you would say more regarding the whole event; how did you get to be there? how many others? was there 'darshan' or some other opportunity to offer some monitary apprecitation? was there an entry fee of sorts or other expectation of money to be 'freely given'. are there more of these events planned/happening? etc.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 23:45:47 (EST)
From: RichMandrake
Email: None
To: michael donner
Subject: Response to Donner, et al...
Message:
Thanks Everyone for your Words of Support I Very Much appreciate them...and it looks like One troll got the password...

To answer a few questions:

Although I have been a regular contributor to Maharaji until I found EPO this summer, there are no premies in San Diego with whom I have much contact.. Thus no one was particularly aware of my recent Ex-hood. I did tell the head of the Contribution program at Elan Vital the reason why I was no longer donating to Maharaji, but apparently that did not get me on the Black List.

I was contacted by a woman who is one of the major church ladies here. She told me in hushed tones that Maharaji was having a Special event here in San Diego in a few days. She Called it an Appointment. She told me that I was invited and as a San Diego Premie I would be sitting in the front. She also told me Maharaji had been having other events like this around the country and he had been have question and answer sessions at them (to my memory though this proved to be inaccurate). Then she explained that since Maharaji wanted this very private I should NOT TELL ANYONE about the event. She said that premies from San Diego and Orange County (not Los Angeles) were invited and they were expecting 500 people. Further, the event was paid for by a private party..NOT Elan Vital. and because it is very expensive ...It would REALLY Help if I could give as much as I could. The requested donation was $100 but if I could give more that would be Greatly appreciated….and CASH is Preferred. I had the distinct impression that whoever she was in contact with was stressing the need to maximize donations..and Cash.

What else?...Well..There were metal detectors at the doors much like going thru an airport terminal. I had a mini tape recorder in my blazer pocket ( to record my question and his answer for posterity) but when I saw the Metal detector, I ditched it in my car. The venue itself was a meeting room in a moderately upscale Hotel in Del Mar. I had been to a Real Estate Seminar or such there before. I cant imagine it costing more than $500 to rent for a Saturday afternoon. There were no concessions at the event. I did not pay cash as requested. The check was to be made out to "Appointment Event." Maharaji spoke for an hour and accepted the Premies grateful prostrations for another hour. Quick , Dirty and Profitable. Contrary to what my Church Lady had told me, Premies from as far away as Santa Barbara had been invited. I suspect that anyone who had been a recent contributor in Southern California had been invited. There was no "Darshan" at the event. Money was only brought up by the churchlady…No..actually I remember Maharaji weaved several metaphors about gold bricks and other allusions of monetary gain into his "satsang"…I was thinking to myself at the time that this accurately reflected his real priorities. He did mention something about another program coming up..but I forget exactly what he said…I believe it might have been when one of the Premies alluded to missing "Darshan"..without saying the word……and he suggested that there may be something coming up…but my memory is vague on that…. Upon leaving the program I did a quick estimation of the attendance figure…counting rows and columns. I estimate the attendance was probably around 350-400 devotees of the Former Lord God. And one or two monmots.

Thanks again Everybody…You're incredible people. Im thinking we should democratically elect a Satguru from amongst us..…and have our OWN Darshan Event….just for old times sake…Whatdyathink??..Any other questions?..RichMandrake.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 17:26:46 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: RichMandrake
Subject: Hey Richard.
Message:
Don't feel bad. At least you were there with your own identity and your own thoughts. You weren't slavering away telling him how beautiful it all was, and fantastic he is.

You're becoming yourself again. It's too late for him. You're another bird that's realised you were in a cage, but you've also realised that the door fell off, and there's nothing to stop you from leaving.

Things will only get better.

Anth, who'd like to say a couple of things to him too.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 17:38:26 (EST)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Hey Anth
Message:
Boy, have you changed your tune over the last two years (this Xmas no?). I bet if you had that journey's entry to do again you wouldn't be saying no hard feelings.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 16:47:00 (EST)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: RichMandrake
Subject: Don't get down on yourself
Message:
You probably did the right thing, Rich. Sometimes I get a 'why bother' feeling I'm so sure what I have to say is going to fall on deaf ears. Like my next door neighbor, she insists on slamming the door everytime she comes and goes. I've asked her again and again, 'could you please....' Falls on deaf ears. So I don't bother anymore. I just cover my ears everytime I hear her coming and going.

Timing is important too. There's a right time and a wrong time and your own inner compass tells you when it is and when it isn't. Your's was probably just telling you 'now's not the time', and for you it wasn't. No crime in that. Great questions though if you would have had the chance to ask them. It would have been interesting to see how he'd field them.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 15:45:08 (EST)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: RichMandrake
Subject: What a Clown!
Message:
Reminds me of the recent premie report reposted here about a similar event in which M pointedly said he didn't want to hear questions about 'enlightenment' etc.

It's like the Pope hosting a Q & A and saying he didn't want to hear questions about 'God and Jesus and religion and stuff.'

The subjects about which M is ostensibly the expert (the Master!) are the same subjects he refuses to address. (Having been a premie myself once, I know what the premie line on this would be: the Experience is ineffable and thus resists the attempts by logic and language to hem it in. Never mind that most gurus/masters at least make a stab at it.)

M does address 'the experience' on his own terms in programs big and small of course. He rambles on about mundane ephemera, throwing in a few generically bland 'spiritual terms' to keep his audience believing he's saying something of substance.

But to actually engage in serious dialogue about his work, his experience, his teachings...no, he'd rather listen to obsequious squeakings of gratitude. What a pathetic excuse for a guru.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 15:07:53 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: RichMandrake
Subject: Deliver the skinny on Marolyn & kids
Message:
Hi Rich,

Thanks for your very candid reply. As you can see, there was never any peer pressure from us for you to ask him a question or give him a piece of your mind (pun intended).

As Joe said, the cards were stacked against you. He is victorious in that respect, in the short run. Word that Maha said that will ripple through the community. Don't forget the hip premies don't talk like that to him. It is uncool if you are in an 'inner circle' gathering. Trust me. Are you or have you ever been close to the 'in crowd' in Malibu? You won't hear that blather. So, the sappy devotional shit, will piss some of them off. Believe me, Rich, Maha is hanging himself, with that stuff. Bet you dimes to darshan, we see a few more oldtimers show up in the next couple of weeks.

So, gives us the skinny on the Marolyn and kiddy cult-leaders in training. What ya see? What ya see?

p.s. So Maha didn't correct the D-Vote-T who referred him as MY LORD. how telling is that? The more things change, the more they stay the same.

p.s. A way to alleviate the fear of being removed, is to say what you want, then get up and say, 'I guess I'll remove myself, and walk proudly out the door grinning your ex-cult ass off'. It will be a pattern interupter which will cause the premies to think. Just a tip!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 14:51:05 (EST)
From: Chuck S.
Email: chassprague@yahoo.com
To: RichMandrake
Subject: Thank you for sharing this, it's great stuff...
Message:
I'm so glad you went, and then told us about it. I don't think anyone here would blame you for not confronting the Goober. You were so close to him, surrounded by all those fauning devotees, and sitting so close to Marolyn, too. I can only imagine how intense it must have been. And then to have him actuall say, ''No questions''. Sheesh! Jim is right, it may have been easier if you had someone there with you to offer support, but even then I can imagine it would still have been difficult. But just the fact that you went, and then told us about it, is fabulous. Thank You!

I'd been hoping someone would offer us a first-hand report of these meetings. Too weird to have him say he's going to ''open the floor'' to let others speak, but 'No questions''. He may as well have just said ''No questions, adoration only''. Isn't it just the new version of ''Bow down, worship and adore''?

What kind of teacher doesn't allow questions? When I was on the committee and helping with video events, it was so obvious that we were presenting M. as a teacher, and yet he did not act like one. He ridiculed and belittled questions, even from aspirants, even at times said he wasn't really a teacher, but something much more (nod nod, wink wink), kept saying things like his ''students'' should stop asking questions and just SHUT UP and LISTEN. The slow motion, blured focus videos of M just walking around, with devotional music playing, obviously we were supposed to be adoring him.

That seemed to be the only thing he was teaching, ''Adore me, and send me checks and do what I say and don't question me or doubt my purity, or WALK. Just walk away.'' It would be more honest for him to say "Be a resource I can exploit, or go". It's so disrespectful. What's "love" got to do with it? He doesn't even want to know our names, but when the cash cows start to leave, he wants "intimate" meetings where he doesn't have to answer questions. I'm so embarrased that I ever got involved with such a creep.

I believed all the Teacher BS when I got K. It makes me really angry when EPO critics claim we are just angry because M dropped all the Indian devotional stuff. It's such a lie. I never got into the Indian devotional stuff, and when it seemed to go I was glad. But the devotional stuff never went away, because devotion to M is all he is cultivating. A few of the Indian trappings were dropped, publicly, but it's the same Old Time guru worship Religion.

Your report from the front lines is very important, it demonstrates so realistically what M's trip is really all about. That is the sort of thing aspirants need to know about; Maharaji the so-called ''Teacher'' doesn't want their questions, just their adoration, obedience, and money. Thanks so much for the report. Thanks so much for your honesty.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 13:59:39 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: RichMandrake
Subject: Rich...No need for apologies...
Message:
Hi Rich,

I think it was brave and way cool you attended. Confronting one's perpetrator (and that's what Maharaji is: a perpetrator of your life) is quite a feat. It's scary, especially with the history of the mind-reading juju guru, and the beliefs about him and his fake powers. We now can see through it now but that seeing does not negate our basic gut feelings while being face to face with someone we worshipped and someone who convinced us was invincible.

One thing I do appreciate about having been in the cult (about the only thing) is that I lost my fear of public speaking from giving so much satsang and coordinating regional community events where I was the emcee, etc. I also did a lot of speaking in my previous career. Plus, I lost my fear of authority as a by-product of exiting the cult. Yet, I don't know if I would have had the nerve to ask him something he clearly doesn't want to hear--especially while seated that close to the stage--it's not like you could have easily left the room. You were very close to him physically--that would scare me.

Should you ever want to try it again, don't do it for EPO or exes, but do it for yourself. You will likely be escorted out, but the satisfaction will be worth it. That's your choice, obviously.

It would piss him off (good), but is not likely to stop him in his congame. Jim said it felt very good to confront Raja. That's a personal satisfaction that Jim got from having the courage to confront him.

Meantime, I want you to know I enjoy your input here a lot and, well, don't worry about it, please.

I'm curious, how does he look? Are his eyes bloodshot? Bags under his eyes? Stressed? Just wondering.

Be well,
Cynthia

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 15:23:21 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Yes, Rich...No need for apologies...
Message:
Powerful story and thanks for telling it. That in itself took courage. The group agreement is indeed very intense around M and he's worked hard to keep it that way. No way it would be an easy thing to break the spell that has been cast these 30 years. I admire you for thinking you might try, though.

Richard

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 13:21:41 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: RichMandrake
Subject: Terrific story, Rich
Message:
Who cares if you didn't ask your question. Your description of being there was enough for me. It gave me the creeps. Who the hell does he think he is? (Well, we know the answer to that.)

In the US reporters shout rude questions to our president and the last time I checked rawat wa snot Commander in Chief. It is primitive superstitious feudalism. Yuk!

Thanks for the report from the front line.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 12:06:59 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: RichMandrake
Subject: The cards were stacked, Rich
Message:
Rich,

I think it would be a very rare person who would get up and ask a confronting question to the person you had been programmed for years to believe could read your mind, had total power over you, and cannot be questioned. And even if you did, it likely would have little to no effect.

Then, on top of that, he said he didn't want questions. Then, on top of that, he stacked the room to be full of invited-only people who first of all, wouldn't ask anything, and would bad-vibe to the extreme anybody who uttered a discouraging word. VERY few people would want to go through that, and, really why should they?

Think about this simple experiment that I read about in a textbook on Psychology many years ago. You are in an office building and the elevator opens, half full of people. The subjects were asked to get on the elevator, and instead of turning around and facing the doors, they were told to face the BACK of the elevator, right into the faces of the people who were already in the car. Just get on the elevator and keep facing the back. Hard, right? Hardly anybody could do it, and anybody who did said it was extremely difficult to carry it through.

Group pressure and conformity are amazingly strong things and very hard to overcome, and cults thrive on this.

Rich, asking M a difficult question, while it might have been something you wanted to do, and might even have been good for you, would really not have made any difference.

Maharaji would have belittled or ignored you, the premies would have supported him and bad-vibed you, and it wouldn't have made a damn bit of difference, because Maharaji couldn't care less what you or even those fawning premies think, as long as there are enought devotees to keep his trip going. They are completely interchangeable to him.

He wants to be worshipped and he wants money. That's about it. Even those adoring premies are not really people to him, they are just nameless robots that he cultivates for his own ends. He couldn't care less about them as individuals, and yet he seems to have the ability, like a lot of politicians, to make people think he cares about them deeply as individuals. That's partly what's so sad about all this -- how the sincerity and love of those people is given to someone so unworthy of it.

Unfortunately, very unfortunately, he CAN continue to bamboozle and manipulate those people with impunity. The good thing is he can't do that to YOU anymore, and whenever any of those other premies come to the same point you are, they will be free of the manipulation as well. It really is something, I think, that happens person by person, not as a joint dramatic declaration of some sort in a room with Maharaji. Plus, we can forget about reforming Maharaji. He is way too far gone for that.

I feel for you Rich, and congratulations on seeing through the bullshit and for telling us so honestly about your feelings. I think what you have contributed here is very valuable in helping others get free and I think you can feel very good about that.

BTW, how many people were there?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 11:34:12 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: RichMandrake
Subject: How to Confront Maharaji in Public
Message:
I attended the
Hi Rich,

Great post. I really sympathize. Who amongst us wouldn't?

Still, never having actually done it myself, I think there's a way to effectively confront the paper tiger. I know it's not the same thing, but I did confront Raja Ji at a program once and, Rich, what can I tell you? It felt great! Mind you, even then, when I thought I was already a good seven or so years out, I still felt some trepidation as I rose to my feet in the back of the hall. But the moment I heard my own voice -- hey, I've got news for you (this should come as no surprise): I liked it. And when I heard Raja Ji's first pathetic reply, well, I liked my own voice even more. At least I was honest.

First, I think we have to be careful to remember that all public speaking triggers a certain amount of nervousness in even the bravest of people. My own experience is no exception. After years of blabbing several times a week in programs, large and small, in the cult, when I went back to school and took a speech course, I felt extremely anxious before a couple of my class speeches despite having no rational reason for same. Moreover, when I started practicing law, I went through hell at times, until I just plain got used to it. Now the idea of talking in court is nothing. Second nature, I guess you could say. But not a few years ago and certainly not because I think some judge is divine, able to read my mind and even lift me high in the sky and turn me blue if I'm bad. Not even.

On the other hand, I can honestly say that even those first few forays into public speaking worked out just fine once I got rolling. And by that, I'm talking seconds, minutes would be too long. Within seconds I adjusted, got my stride, and, well, okay, maybe 15 seconds. I don't think 30. And, okay, those 15 were fifteen long ones. Still, it just wasn't that bad.

So what could ameliorate this inescapable nervousness, you ask? Well, perhaps a little practice session, believe it or not. Remember, unless you're a very die-hard devotee, in which case you won't be doing this anyway, Maharaji's not going to overpower your mind with juju, the heebie jeebies or even a staring contest, you, pathetic, lost and evil soul against the infinite pools of divine power behind under those puffy, little eyelids. No, what'll happen is he'll respond with words. Focus on his words and you've got him. Practice this a bit, even out loud, and you'll see what I mean.

Also, I think it's crucial that you're not alone. You want someone there who you know is on-side with you all the way. Sure, many in the audience might be (as I learned when I confronted Raja Ji. You could just tell by who laughed at what. When the crowd was laughing with me at his expense I knew I had something). But you want someone to walk with you if and when they ask you to leave ( could happen). You definitely want them to debrief and laugh with you later as you drive home.

And laugh you will, Richard! There is no greater rush and long-overdue emotional release I can imagine than confronting one's former cult leader. Okay, I haven't done it myself but I'm sure that's true given what happened with Raja Ji. IT JUST FEELS GREAT!

One of these days, people will indeed start talking back to the little runt. And when they do, they'll never shut up again. It's just a matter of time before he'll have to secure the Gates of Gratitude so strongly, premies will feel like prisoners entering the hall. Passing under the Arches of Appreciation will carry such a great toll that most, if not all, will fianlly realize it just isn't worth it.

Finally, if this is of any assistance, my moment with Raja came when he was clearly just trying to brush off an other questioner. I think I found it easier to come to someone else's aid than speak for myself on my own. That might be a useful device to prime the pump. Wait for M to unfairly ridicule someone, feel your latent courage (we all have at least some. Hey, if I do, we all do), and let it rip. Better than sex.

Well .... pretty good stuff anyway. :)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 10:36:42 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: RichMandrake
Subject: Re: the SD Program...First and Apology...
Message:
Please try not to be so hard on youself. After so many years of absolute obeyance to M and all that invoved, to come face to face with him would be like a victim facing their abuser. You've seen in the media how difficult it is in a courtroom. A lot of times the victim can't even look at the purpetrator during testimony. It's only when forced to identify their presence that they do and this is after much counseling and preparation. It's been too soon for you Rich, imo. Maybe if you had run in to him on the street, free of his bodyguards, you might have been able to ask your question. But I feel sure he wouldn't answer. He never will. He's a coward that hides behind a false mask, afraid for his money. He is a slave to his money. Well guess what, he can't take it with him either, just like us other mere mortals.

What is very telling to me, is the effect you so honestly relayed the prgram had on you. Once again a set up. They would have just cut the mike.

So this was the great "question and answer" session?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 10:57:44 (EST)
From: michael donner
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: Re: the SD Program...First and Apology...
Message:
hi richard, i certainly understand how difficult it is to even ask a question let alone say something difficult to m. that was my story for years and many ways....i am not surprised at how he set the situation up...giving a brief statement about not taking questions...he was there to reinforce the relationship that he has with those attending...the 'giving and receiving of love'...giving the premies an opportunity to expression their appreciation...i am not surprised that in these rather uncertain times, he is creating situations for this kind of reinforcement of the basis relationship of master and devotee.

not being in that relationship yourself, it was undoubtedly very awkward and you must have felt like you were sticking out like a sore thumb. but obviously m manipulated the situation, controlling it from his place on the stage (or whatever) as he always does...being in control is certainly part of his mo as is pre-emting questions and limiting expressions to only those he wants to hear and have reinforced.

thanks for you honest reflections of your process. took courage to get as far as you did in this process. thanks, really.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 17:36:04 (EST)
From: Gail MacDougall
Email: gcmacdougall@yahoo.ca
To: michael donner
Subject: Richard Mandrake--How did you get in to see MJ?
Message:
How did you get in to see the Lard? I thought exs were banned?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 00:40:48 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Words that Maharaji has bastardized
Message:
There is alot of jargon associated with Maharaji and 'his message.' The following English words are those that M twisted for his own use. He took the literal meaning and applied the definition, glued it with shit, onto our minds and souls.
Do any of these ring a bell?

Devotion
Surrender
Experience
Mind
Concept
Participation
Service
Sychronized
Master
Heart
Grace
Mercy
Realize
Feet
Lotus
Form

I could go on but need I? Feel free to add on to this list ad nauseum.

Blessing to the forum, Sant Ji Tonette

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 19:38:01 (EST)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: How's about... LIFE!
Message:
Sometimes he says that word by itself as if there's some kind of magic in it. LIFE! LIFE! And there I'd be sitting thinking, 'Now, I'm sure there's something important in what he's saying here, if only I knew what...'

LIFE! LIFE!..... (Yeah, uh huh, go on).... LIFE! LIFE!....

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 18:55:00 (EST)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: The one word you've all forgotten!
Message:
The 'word' of course!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 00:55:09 (EST)
From: suchabanana
Email: lotrimin@smelly_feet.org/y
To: Kelly
Subject: btw,Happy #1, Toejamanand [nt]
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 17:36:05 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: Breath, gratitude, and LOVE (nt)
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 15:26:21 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: Elan Vital [nt]
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 17:53:18 (EST)
From: Michael McDonald
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Re: Elan Vital
Message:
Does anyone know the historical basis for Mr Rawat selecting 'Elan Vital' as the name for his organisation? I'm familiar with the philosopher Henri Bergson's use of the term (I even have an early 20th century critique of his work lying around somewhere) but who introduced it to Mr Rawat? I recall one of the explanations at the time was that Shri Hans gave it to him in a dream but, for some reason or another, I doubt that now.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 21:01:39 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Michael McDonald
Subject: Re: Elan Vital
Message:
In the late 1970's I was designing and producing And It Is Divine and at one point I was told that M wanted to change the name to Élan Vital. Well, anything was better than calling a magazine And It Is Divine. Later Divine Light Mission became Élan Vital.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 21:20:27 (EST)
From: Michael McDonald
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Re: Elan Vital
Message:
Thanks, Richard. It's still intriguing where Mr Rawat picked up on it originally. I mean, it's not like people discuss Bergson on a regular basis.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 22:36:47 (EST)
From: Inside Edition
Email: None
To: Michael McDonald
Subject:
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 22:36:47 (EST)
From: Inside Edition
Email: None
To: Michael McDonald
Subject:
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 22:36:45 (EST)
From: Inside Edition
Email: None
To: Michael McDonald
Subject:
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 22:36:45 (EST)
From: Inside Edition
Email: None
To: Michael McDonald
Subject:
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 14:48:01 (EST)
From: suchabanana
Email: banana@glossary.edu
To: Tonette
Subject: Re: Words that Maharaji has bastardized
Message:
That_________________ This_____________ The______________
Love Life
Fulfillment Possibility realize
Lord satguru incarnation
Feeling appreciation
understanding 'the living master'
clarity propagation
chitchat doubtmaker
conceptmaker servant breath
student teacher devotee aspirant
'this material world' lover mission
perfect perfection 'perfectness' nectar ocean
within inside confusion Truth craziness
that longing desires home path contentment

cheat deceit

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 11:39:40 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: Re: Words that Maharaji has bastardized
Message:
Brainfart
Synchronization
participation
lotus
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 00:53:46 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: Do swans count? (nt)
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 14:37:34 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: Lotus....
Message:
Hi Vicki

I know that lotus flowers are beautiful but he definitely re-uined for me. Now I call them 'Lilly Pads.'

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 07:45:39 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: Re: Words that Maharaji has bastardized
Message:
Here's my additions:

meditation
venue (one that irritates the hell out of me)
prayer
beauty
breath
''that''_____________(insert word here)
heart
thirst
hunger
thinking
event

Yes, the list goes on, but I am working on reclaiming the words for myself. I really, really hate ''venue.''

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 23:39:34 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: The one that is the most noxious to me is:
Message:
Actually there are two words that I still gag on:
Knowledge and Experience

Will they ever be the same? No. I associate these expressions with the word rape. Go figure.

Venue sucks too, now that you mention it. The experience of seeing Maharaji depends on the venue. Is it Amaroo, a hall, some private training, a drug infested party, or is it his bedroom? I want Satsang to come back so I can hear Monica speak!

What a chuckle that would be! Can you imagine?

Warm thoughts to you, Love, Tonette

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 04:39:25 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: Re: Words that Maharaji has bastardized
Message:
gratitudeunderstandingappreciationwordlyGodaspiranttrainingdoubtquestiontrustpracticesupporttruth
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 23:31:42 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: It's okay Janet, probably web TV snafu
Message:
I could read it. Here they are:

Gratitude
Understanding
Appreciation
Wordly
God
Aspirant
Training
Doubt
Question
Trust (one of the worst, IMO)
Practice (ouch!)
Support
Truth

Thanks for your reply and input here. Take care of yourself!

Fondly, Tonette

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 05:01:26 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: 1 more try?
Message:
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 05:07:23 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Re: 2 more tries?
Message:
for some reason the software keeps deleting my list, so this is my last attempt to get this thing up here sensibly. any tips how to do what tonette did would be appreciated (in the real sense.)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 05:09:57 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Re: too trying. screw it
Message:
for some reason the software keeps deleting my list, so this is my last attempt to get this thing up here sensibly. any tips how to do what tonette did would be appreciated (in the real sense.)

---

well it lost it again. you have to take apart the run on list that came out with the first post. i can't find any way to make the damn thing post a simple list. it was a good one, too.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 04:51:05 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: with html added...
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 00:57:42 (EST)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: Re: Words that Maharaji has bastardized
Message:
Instructor
Initiator
Teacher
Speaker
Event
Message
Festival
Illusion
Vision
And of course
KNOWLEDGE
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 01:02:46 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Brian Smith
Subject: I left that one out on purpose!
Message:
KNOWLEDGE!!!!!!!!!!!

So, Brian, you have knowledge, have you REALIZED it yet? I have. Sorry it to say, it's a bucket of shit unless, of course, you like listening to the hum of your nervous system. But, we are evolved beings, better than Apes I tell you, so maybe there's something there, perhaps? Enlighten me if you can. Just kidding.

In your Grace, Tonette

ps-you too, can be a SatGuru!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 02:04:58 (EST)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: Re: I left that one out on purpose!
Message:
The dictionary says, Knowledge - The state or fact of knowing specific information about something,

Yeah I know what he calls Knowledge doesn't translate well into the english language, four techniques and then start poking, plugging, breathing and swallowing.

I have to admit though, I really do not have as much of a problem with the knowledge in and of itself as I do with goober, particularly after I found out that I was then and now on my own with it. It wasn't m's knowledge as he had claimed, My main problem with m is that he is a dysfunctional irresponsible leader, he is a liar and a fraud, he bastardized the whole idea of personal edification to serve his own means.

Even so I have gained more knowledge from my own personal introspection, particularly sans the cult. Just taking a hard honest look at myself at various times in my life and making adjustments where needed has helped me realize my own personal potential more than the techniques or enslavement to M ever have.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 02:25:00 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Brian Smith
Subject: Knowledge and Maharaji stunts human growth
Message:
Yes, I agree with you. And I laughed with the line of poking, plugging, breathing and swallowing. Good one!

I think by focusing one's attention upon that which M calls Knowledge, only serves to stunt one's natural evoultion. When you practice Knowledge the issues of personal introspection and the corresponding growth, are sidlined. Like an Ostrich with it's head in the sand so to speak. That's why so many people on this forum have talked about their catch up.

Just my take after living with a premie for so many years.

Tonette

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 02:47:42 (EST)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: How True
Message:
I am now free to explore and trust my own instincts and catch up on my own ideas without having to associate and attribute everything to the grace of maserati.

My personal relationships within my family have improved and solidified so much since I escaped the cult. There is no longer this thing of I had better be a good premie and satsang and harrange these people because they are important to me guilt trip spinning around anymore.

It has really made a big difference, and thankfully a much clearer avenue of communication has opened up among us now. I am throughly enjoying my escape from lock up.

Brian the escaped convert

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 01:10:45 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: Killing the Buddha
Message:
We are realizing Knowledge. We're realizing that Knowledge is a crock of shit.

Maybe your humming neurons and brain impulses bring satisfaction, but Maharaji's Knowledge is a con game. It's a trick widely used in India to hook peasants into discipleship and subservience.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 01:53:33 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: Oh no, I HAVE REALIZED KNOWLEDGE
Message:
Oh, I am ahead of you Deborah. I am more enlightened! I am Guru!
I have realized knowledge, not realizing it. Not in the process of realizing but actually realized you see. But save your time and effort dear sister, it's just like you predict; a bucket of shit I'm sorry to say. Let's try EST instead.
Wait a minute, what kind of income do you have? By any chance are you looking for a new Master? How many friends do you have? What kind of sway do you have on this forum? Just letting you know I am now in the business of enlightenment, being a realized soul and all that I am.
How about some palm reading? Just scan your palm to my e-mail and for only $29.99 I will tell you of things to come and places you have been.
Want to be partners? We can split it 50/50.

By his Grace,(what a great instructor he was), Tonette

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 15:11:09 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: L.O.L...One step ahead is right [nt]
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 00:24:10 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Maha, Stalin and Cult poetry
Message:
Hi folks,

I talked about doing my essay for Russian Film "The Inner Circle" and cult phenomena. I mentioned that it was eerily similar to the Maha and premies cult. They kissed pictures of Stalin, and referred to him as The Master.

The inner circle of people who served Stalin's every need where running around just like premies in service. Everything had to be picture perfect or they got severly reprimanded. People were X-rated but got perks for being part of this inner circle. People spoke of him as if he were god. They were speechless yet ecstatic in his presence. When he left a room, they rejoiced in sitting in the same chair he sat in, and endulged in the left over food and went ecstatic, you know, like premies do.

We have all had a laugh over the devotional blather on Maha's web site. Well check out this little gem of devotional poetry.


---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---
--
Modern History Sourcebook:
Hymn to Stalin

Thank you, Stalin. Thank you because I am joyful. Thank you because I am well. No matter how old I become, I shall never forget how we received Stalin two days ago. Centuries will pass, and the generations still to come will regard us as the happiest of mortals, as the most fortunate of men, because we lived in the century of centuries, because we were privileged to see Stalin, our inspired leader. Yes, and we regard ourselves as the happiest of mortals because we are the contemporaries of a man who never had an equal in world history.

The men of all ages will call on thy name, which is strong, beautiful, wise and marvelous. Thy name is engraven on every factory, every machine, every place on the earth, and in the hearts of all men.

Every time I have found myself in his presence I have been subjugated by his strength, his charm, his grandeur. I have experienced a great desire to sing, to cry out, to shout with joy and happiness. And now see me--me!--on the same platform where the Great Stalin stood a year ago. In what country, in what part of the world could such a thing happen.

I write books. I am an author. All thanks to thee, O great educator, Stalin. I love a young woman with a renewed love and shall perpetuate myself in my children--all thanks to thee, great educator, Stalin. I shall be eternally happy and joyous, all thanks to thee, great educator, Stalin. Everything belongs to thee, chief of our great country. And when the woman I love presents me with a child the first word it shall utter will be : Stalin.

O great Stalin, O leader of the peoples,
Thou who broughtest man to birth.
Thou who fructifies the earth,
Thou who restorest to centuries,
Thou who makest bloom the spring,
Thou who makest vibrate the musical chords...
Thou, splendour of my spring, O thou,
Sun reflected by millions of hearts.


---
A. O.Avidenko

Looks like Avidenko is giving Janice Wilson a run for her money.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 16:37:56 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: Great stuff, Deborah!
Message:
The darshan phenomenon is still a mystery to me, but evidence like this certainly helps towards understanding it.

Thanks,

John who was born in England instead of Latvia because of Stalin.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 16:54:54 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Hi John, do you know of Eisenstein (OT)
Message:
He is born and raised in Riga, Latvia before going to Soviet Union.

One of the greatest influences in filmmaking. His use of montage (editing unrelated images so as to make emotional, psychological, political, or intellectual connection) was not intelligible for the multi-lingual, multi-class masses and Stalin's socialist realist film censors greatly affected his success. Every film student today, knows and admires his great work.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 02:38:07 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: Re: Maha, Stalin and Cult poetry
Message:
Oooh my gawd! Too eerie. I had no idea those old commies got darshan juju from Uncle Joe!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 16:48:03 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Rent or buy the movie, it's amazing
Message:
And the ending, well! it's worth it. I don't want to spoil it for you. Rent the movie and watch it with friends.

Idea: How about a Latvian movie night.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 17:12:14 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: the movie's on my list [nt]
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Nov 28, 2001 at 22:12:13 (EST)
From: Michael McDonald
Email: None
To: All
Subject: If you think things are tense here,
Message:
then check out this dispute in contemporary Tibetan circles arising from a leader's sudden death in 1655:

http://www.tibet.com/dholgyal/shugden-origins.html

People have long memories. I suggest you take a thermos of tea and a cut lunch when you go to read it.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Nov 28, 2001 at 21:30:59 (EST)
From: Pat :C)onlon
Email: pdconlon@hotmail.com
To: All
Subject: Premies vs cult agents provocateurs
Message:
Cultweasels deliberately provoked us in order to get angry responses. This forum has been a battle-ground between cultweasels and exes ever since I came aboard and probably long before that. CAC was the same tactic. It tried to get us to do something rash.

It is very wrong to think of all premies as being like this. Many of the wavering premies I know want to post here (in order to ask questions mostly or connect with old friends) but were deterred by the hostility between the exes and cultweasels which sometimes overlapped onto real premies when they appeared.

The institution of posting privileges will make this forum a lot more civilized and polite. What's the bet? Give it a few months of calm and sensible postings without having to react to sneering cult agents provocateurs and the wavering premies will feel comfortable enough here to request posting privileges.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Nov 28, 2001 at 21:46:04 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Pat :C)onlon
Subject: guesss what Ithink they have the PW
Message:
I'm not surprised.

Are you guys up for some serious changes? I've found some great software and a couple of good servers to host it.

Most forum discussion groups have had to institute some measure of security because of exactly what we have experienced. The new software will attempt to deal with that. (disclaimer -nothing's perfect)

If the Filament can evolve, so can we (TM)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 00:45:24 (EST)
From: bill
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Re: guesss what I think they have the PW
Message:
If you sent it to bburke@rocketmail.com/
there is a chance someone picked it up there.
At that email address of mine, the password was available at one point and mili, probably had it.
dont know if he kept it, but if you think they have it, my guess would be it came from that email account.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 01:05:07 (EST)
From: bill
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: on my personal warfront
Message:
I am active and cac is powerless.

In worlds of nonpremies that I try to impress,
wearing my pride like the stars on my hat and dress.
my nonpremie

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 01:02:51 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: How does Mili have access to your email
Message:
password? Can you 'splain that?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 01:08:25 (EST)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: Re: How does Mili have access to your email
Message:
It was in a different era, it was on the forum.
anyone could have got it.
Long ago.
No one asked my first if they should send anything private to that particular email address.
I dont know if it was sent there because I cannot access the account
for the last week or so.
Maybe cac got mad at me declaring war.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 01:14:18 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: Your email yes, but not your password
Message:
Still confused :P
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Nov 28, 2001 at 22:39:42 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: I'm not surprised.
Message:
Judging by the number of fake email requests for the pw which I got, I'm sure someone did not check to see if their socalled friends were emailing from their usual addresses and gave out the pw to a cultweasel. It was dished out a bit too easily.

No matter how fancy the anti-troll software is the weakest link is giving out the pw. The best approach still is individual pws. That way if the pw is given out you can trace it and cancel it.

Most posting privilege forums use your email address as your password. You enter the email addresses of those you want to notify into the forum software and it mails out invitations. It also always checks IP#s. You sign in once at the beginning of your session and not everytime you post.

I'm ready for changes even of it means some growing pains. I'm sick of fighting terrorists and would like to become a ""friend of the premies"" - arms open to sincere seekers of the truth. :)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Nov 28, 2001 at 23:11:32 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Yes, that's the way to go
Message:
Individual PW's sound the best. We only have to go through the process once to obtain it. What's so big a deal about that? And all the sensitive information goes to the FA who only needs what is fair. People could still use a handle. The FA doesn't care if you are a premie or ex. What's the beef there? There's not a time limit to how long you're allowed to remain a premie. You just have to respect the guide lines.

Exes are very tolerable. It takes a tremendous amount of abuse to rile us. And the PWK can post for the first time through the FA or FA's assistance. [*NO attachments please.] So, they won't need to go through process the first time.

You can have a first time post link to an email that will get posted as long as it's not spam.

We need a server that invests in protecting their BB users. That's the key. I think with a clean and harmonious board, the premies will see that other premies are accepted easily.

I'd looking forward to see a whole gang of people come on board.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 00:11:37 (EST)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: The best defense is a good offense
Message:
I agree Deb, individual passwords is the best way to go, tracking and eliminating spammers then would be a simple procedure.

I too think that the boards out here are ready for many other voices to find their way out of the maharaji maze.

I suspected that the PW would be compromised in time, there was just too many people involved, too many options for a leak.

I have to say it has been great out here with out the aggravation of the trolls tying things up. I hope that we can rectify the situation asap and continue to create an environment here where newbies can test the water outside of the cult trappings and move forward.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Nov 28, 2001 at 22:58:43 (EST)
From: We could always buy
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: First Class :) NT
Message:
Judging by the number of fake email requests for the pw which I got, I'm sure someone did not check to see if their socalled friends were emailing from their usual addresses and gave out the pw to a cultweasel. It was dished out a bit too easily.

No matter how fancy the anti-troll software is the weakest link is giving out the pw. The best approach still is individual pws. That way if the pw is given out you can trace it and cancel it.

Most posting privilege forums use your email address as your password. You enter the email addresses of those you want to notify into the forum software and it mails out invitations. It also always checks IP#s. You sign in once at the beginning of your session and not everytime you post.

I'm ready for changes even of it means some growing pains. I'm sick of fighting terrorists and would like to become a

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Nov 28, 2001 at 22:07:14 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Gerry, the filament is eroding
Message:
And I'm not surprised.

Yes, I think it's time that we get new software, but how do you think the PW got out? So, the servers will be doing the security or does the software have features to prevent trolling. Not sure how that works.

What measures can we take to insure that the right people get a PW?

Maharaji makes me sick. I don't know how premies can have any respect for him for doing this. But I'm sure they have it rationalized somehow. I'd love to hear from a premie that is ashamed of him. But I guess that's what you call an ex- ;)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Nov 28, 2001 at 22:05:23 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Good going, Ger
Message:
Who better to go after a nasty bunch of conspirators?

Seriously, good work!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index