Ex-Premie Forum 7 Archive
From: Nov 26, 2001 To: Nov 30, 2001 Page: 5 of: 5


Jim -:- More on the Fun Event from Janice -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 11:01:19 (EST)

Silvia Bernz -:- My simple Journey -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 10:43:05 (EST)
__ Silvia -:- to all -:- Wed, Nov 28, 2001 at 04:48:50 (EST)
__ __ JHB -:- Can I post this on EPO as a journey? -:- Wed, Nov 28, 2001 at 06:59:28 (EST)
__ __ __ salsa -:- Re: Can I post this on EPO as a journey? -:- Wed, Nov 28, 2001 at 07:06:52 (EST)
__ __ __ __ JHB -:- Could you email me, please -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 16:33:47 (EST)
__ Deborah -:- Fantabulous post -:- Wed, Nov 28, 2001 at 00:23:18 (EST)
__ Loaf -:- a wonderful story -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 22:08:24 (EST)
__ __ Nottingham Bunny -:- Jo Lesley's friend -:- Wed, Nov 28, 2001 at 18:54:11 (EST)
__ Francesca :O) -:- THIS IS A JOURNEY -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 14:10:35 (EST)
__ __ PatC -:- Sure is! Great stuff, Silvia -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 15:46:16 (EST)
__ Because -:- Re: My simple Journal -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 10:45:57 (EST)
__ __ Richard -:- Amazing tale -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 12:22:19 (EST)
__ __ __ Vicki -:- Incredible -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 14:44:52 (EST)

PatC -:- Every man for himself -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 04:33:53 (EST)
__ Richard -:- Re: Every man for himself -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 12:14:18 (EST)
__ JohnT -:- Say not the struggle naught availeth -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 11:12:44 (EST)
__ Cynthia -:- Re: Every man for himself -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 09:48:05 (EST)
__ __ PatC -:- Thanks guys, but all moot now -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 15:51:33 (EST)

Skippy -:- anniversary -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 01:50:15 (EST)
__ Carl -:- Re: anniversary -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 13:15:25 (EST)
__ Cynthia -:- Hi Skippy... -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 09:53:51 (EST)
__ PatC -:- Hi, Skippy -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 04:02:08 (EST)
__ Brian Smith -:- Hey Skippy -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 03:44:45 (EST)
__ __ Richard -:- Hey Skippy -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 12:30:25 (EST)

Salam -:- That did it. No more computers for me -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 23:45:22 (EST)
__ Vicki -:- He once gave a satsang..... -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 18:09:46 (EST)
__ Jim -:- The rest of the newsletter is funny too -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 14:44:04 (EST)
__ __ Jim -:- But scoring Ghandi must make M burn -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 14:55:58 (EST)
__ __ Vicki -:- Re: The rest of the newsletter is funny too -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 14:51:20 (EST)
__ Selene -:- Re: That did it. No more computers for me -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 12:11:36 (EST)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Hi Selene... -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 12:44:17 (EST)
__ __ __ Selene -:- remembering -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 14:24:35 (EST)
__ Cynthia -:- More Banal Rubbish... -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 10:31:15 (EST)
__ Isn't the Speaker really saying -:- 'you can deny phone conversation... -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 07:24:54 (EST)
__ __ salsa -:- of course -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 10:51:52 (EST)
__ salsa -:- is it a joke? NT -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 06:29:02 (EST)
__ Brian Smith -:- Too weak in the finger -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 03:51:33 (EST)
__ Byline -:- Edited Excerpt, Maharaji in Curacao September 2001 [nt] -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 02:17:05 (EST)
__ B -:- Re: That did it. No more computers for me -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 00:58:50 (EST)
__ __ Ben Lurking -:- Re: That did it. No more computers for me -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 01:03:51 (EST)
__ Sir Dave -:- Hmmm -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 00:26:22 (EST)
__ __ Salam -:- Re: Hmmm -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 05:52:27 (EST)
__ __ Brian smith -:- truth is stranger than fiction -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 04:18:19 (EST)
__ __ Zelda -:- email address is a status symbol????? -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 01:51:37 (EST)

Jim -:- M Accomplishes Goals, Tells Friends -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 22:53:30 (EST)
__ verde -:- it was time -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 08:24:09 (EST)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Ummm...About that tie thing... -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 10:45:29 (EST)
__ __ __ Gail -:- I thought his Krishna Suit was his real outfit -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 17:55:04 (EST)
__ Vicki -:- Re: M Accomplishes Goals, Tells Friends -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 05:56:17 (EST)
__ __ RichMandrake -:- the Writer formerly known as BTDT... -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 09:56:11 (EST)
__ __ janet -:- so lets encourage him! -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 06:12:09 (EST)
__ PatC -:- Translation -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 04:52:42 (EST)
__ Pullaver -:- Deja Vu -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 02:02:28 (EST)
__ __ Vicki -:- Re: Deja Vu -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 04:45:04 (EST)
__ Barry -:- Hey Jim! -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 01:08:07 (EST)
__ Andrea Eriksonn -:- Of COURSE it was Nice... -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 00:54:05 (EST)
__ __ Auntie Eureeka -:- Re: Of COURSE it was Nice... -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 15:24:20 (EST)

Barry -:- Whats a son of a bitch? -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 22:36:50 (EST)
__ Ulf -:- ?????? nt. ( testing ) -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 13:07:13 (EST)
__ Jim -:- That is SO ot and SOOO funny! [nt] -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 22:39:55 (EST)
__ __ Barry -:- had to do it. (ot) -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 22:51:42 (EST)

Salam -:- Gerry -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 22:32:34 (EST)
__ gerry -:- What? -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 10:50:34 (EST)

JHB -:- New Journey and White Pages Entries -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:23:45 (EST)
__ PatC -:- Thanks, John. Paul's Journey.... -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 14:34:08 (EST)

Joe -:- It-Ain't-So has become a SEX site -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:00:43 (EST)
__ Francesca -:- They probably can't complain -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:06:37 (EST)
__ gerry -:- Re: More on the Fun Event from Janice -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 11:10:39 (EST)

Kelly -:- First anniversary posting -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 18:42:54 (EST)
__ magiclara -:- Re: First anniversary posting -:- Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 16:14:30 (EST)
__ Nige and Moley -:- Good to hear you -lots of love -:- Wed, Nov 28, 2001 at 20:31:04 (EST)
__ Nige and Moley -:- Good to hear you -lots of love -:- Wed, Nov 28, 2001 at 20:29:29 (EST)
__ Kelly -:- Hi and thanks to you all -:- Wed, Nov 28, 2001 at 17:50:22 (EST)
__ Vicki -:- Re: First anniversary posting -:- Wed, Nov 28, 2001 at 11:11:40 (EST)
__ __ Kelly -:- Nevada clinic -:- Wed, Nov 28, 2001 at 17:56:47 (EST)
__ Susan -:- my best wishes and prayers for your husband -:- Wed, Nov 28, 2001 at 01:24:04 (EST)
__ AJW -:- Hi Kelly. -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 17:30:28 (EST)
__ Tim G -:- Re: First anniversary posting -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 13:36:57 (EST)
__ Jean-Michel -:- Hi Kelly ! -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 10:56:42 (EST)
__ Brian Smith -:- Thank You Kelly -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 02:05:51 (EST)
__ Mercedes -:- Re: First anniversary posting -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 00:18:52 (EST)
__ Jim -:- Re: First anniversary posting -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 21:10:27 (EST)
__ PatC -:- Re: First anniversary posting -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 20:31:10 (EST)
__ Marianne -:- Kelly! -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:41:43 (EST)
__ __ Kelly -:- Marianne! -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 20:40:45 (EST)
__ PatD -:- Happy Anniversary to you Kelly -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:32:43 (EST)
__ __ Richard -:- Big hug Kelly -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 22:12:02 (EST)
__ Joe -:- All the Best Kelly -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:09:30 (EST)
__ Cynthia -:- Happy Anniversary... -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:08:03 (EST)
__ __ Brian Smith -:- I remember well the dates -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 02:32:45 (EST)
__ Gail -:- Re: First anniversary posting -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 18:56:45 (EST)

JHB -:- EV already being dismantled -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 17:47:59 (EST)
__ Joe -:- It's (as usual) About MONEY -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 18:19:57 (EST)
__ __ PatC -:- NONE of that money stays in the community -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 20:20:28 (EST)
__ __ Kelly -:- Re: It's (as usual) About MONEY -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:27:29 (EST)
__ __ __ janet -:- reduced to SPange-ing -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 06:08:48 (EST)
__ __ __ Jim -:- He he he, yes, this is, ahem, rich(?) -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 21:48:06 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Barry -:- Jim!..... -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 22:54:55 (EST)
__ __ __ Kelly -:- *******If you want a laugh****** -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 20:47:27 (EST)
__ __ __ JHB -:- Talk about desperate!!! -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:31:59 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Kelly -:- Treetalk -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:45:02 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- Wrong trees -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:59:48 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Agreed, John -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:43:27 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Marianne, I think that's implied... -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 10:56:46 (EST)
__ Francesca :) -:- Whoa John! -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 18:06:27 (EST)
__ __ __ Francesca -:- Re: Get your 'quotes' right -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:04:15 (EST)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- There's no ''Speaker's'' Fee.. But Expenses... -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 18:57:08 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- FA ON DUTY....please... -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 18:59:39 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Re: FA ON DUTY....please... -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:07:19 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Francesca ~) -:- TROLL altert? I wonder too. [nt] -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:05:19 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ The Exterminator -:- TROLL -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 20:14:09 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Troll -:- IP blocked? Sure!! -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 21:49:30 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Well, I tried but fanatics like you... -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 22:58:31 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ CW -:- Get your facts straight Bumface -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 00:12:24 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- Characteristic sign-off from CW. -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 11:55:18 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Bye Bye, Cat -:- Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 11:48:04 (EST)
__ __ __ gerry -:- Explain it then -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 18:31:38 (EST)
__ __ __ Joe -:- So? -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 18:30:45 (EST)
__ __ __ __ New Age Redneck -:- Haven't you heard? -:- Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 18:37:05 (EST)


Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 11:01:19 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: All
Subject: More on the Fun Event from Janice
Message:
Fun news :) - update [from ELK]

19 November 2001

Last night Maharaji spoke for over an hour at a regional event in Westchester, New York. And then answered questions from his 600 plus students gathered there from the New York- New England region only. Truly a surprise visit !

What a treat :) He had us all laughing and crying to our hearts content. To be a living student of the living master giving the Knowledge of life is everything, more than the best dream anyone could ever come up with.

Thank you Maharaji for making it possible for me , and anyone who wants, to completely fulfill this existence.

From Janice Wilson, Baldwinville, NY

26 November 2001

We asked Janice to give us some more details, she wrote:

The events were done as local, regional events,by the communities, not Elan Vital. Maharaji wanted them small. In Westchester there were 650 people and in Philadelphia,
the next day, Monday, about 400.. We were notified by phone mainly and via local, regional email addresses and asked to attend the event in our region only. Most people didnot even know where the other events were happening.. I attended NY only, it was more than enough ! For me it was one of the most fun, fulfilling events ever.A beautiful surprise from him to me. I am still enjoying what I received there from him and expect to be for the rest of this life. (Don't wash that hand, Janice. Ever.)

I hadn't been able to see him live in person (??) in about one and a half years, absence sure makes the heart grow fonder and fuller! And I also lucked out with a close seat :) (It really doesn't get much better than that, now does it?)

What a gift ! For myself and everyone I know attending. It was so much fun to laugh with him at the questions, comments and jokes. (AT the questions ...?) I heard later he said New Yorkers had a good sense of humor, he
liked that. (Yeah, he must have been impressed with yours, Janice. You sound like a complete goon!) :) Since I wasn't in Amaroo this year for the skits etc, I felt like I got 'caught ' up on my need to be with Maharaji personally, up close... (What a funny internal checklist she must have!)

It seems the master is always one step or more ahead of us, not allowing us to take this living, gift and make it static. (But how oculd that ever happen? Why just the other day she was blethering on about how fresh and blah blah blah it all was. If they ever make a movie about the last days of the cult, they simply MUST get Lily Tomlin to play Janice. What ws the name of that operator character? Josephine?)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 10:43:05 (EST)
From: Silvia Bernz
Email: None
To: All
Subject: My simple Journey
Message:
My name is Silvia Bernz. I am originally from Argentina, country where I received Knowledge as taught by Maharaji, formerly known as Guru Maharaj Ji in those days when I was only 18 years old.

During a dinner I became curious by the accounts of a premie about his experiences with Knowledge and Maharaji and began to assist to Satsang, what the meetings were called then, and immediately became interested in receiving knowledge. Immediately I began to believe Maharaji's claims of him being the Lord of the Universe, God incarnated, the Savior of humanity, the Supreme Power in person.

In those days as part of the preparation to receive K I had to become familiar with the word surrender . Surrender? To whom? To Guru Maharaji. Whatever Maharaji said was an 'order' for me, honestly. Slowly I began to adopt the expected customs, requirements for me to 'be ready' to get Knowledge. In those days I was a model and worked in TV, and since possessions were discouraged I literally gave all my clothes away and kept just few pieces of clothing, as to express my humility, i.e., I was ready for K. and a change began, in the name of personal freedom. I became a vegetarian, did service almost daily and began to practice devotion toward Maharaji in many way, hoping I could get Knowledge. I sang Arti, I surrender to my Guru Maharaji whom I accepted as the Superior Power in Person. I did surrender to him and learned not to question anything, specially anything about him. Nobody 'dares' to judge the master...but I remember wondering all along...a lot about him.

Years went by when the sole purpose to exist was totally centered around Maharaji, doing service, going to satsang and following him around traveling to other countries, having learned how bad a premie needs darshan, having 'bought' the concept that his presence gave me some type of good energy I couldn't feel on my own.

The dependency toward maharaji seemed nothing and I accepted it for years and years, getting myself in debt following him around. I forgot (with pain, it never seemed right) of my family and some times I wouldn't see it for years, only phone calls to stay in touch and occasional letters. My Lord was the center of my life. I moved to the US to be closer to him and began to grow a desire to serve him directly...as many premies. The DREAM. Becoming aware of the organization made it hard to take; I didn't like a lot of it, but remained in touch. Many years later there was a problem between premies in my community and I was offered to step in to be for a while the Aspirant Contact of my community, which I accepted, feeling special and honored to do a service that I considered to be so special, helping people prepare to receive Knowledge. I did that service for over 4 years and what I learned and saw was the beginning of my exit.

I spent a fair amount of money from my pocket to have all I needed for that service. I, as other Contacts needed a video library to provide videos to new people, and for people preparing to receive Knowledge. I was given a list of the videos mahatma Charanand and Belkis wanted people to watch and dedicated years building the library, getting all those titles. As explained by ex-instructor JM in his site, all is prepared, not natural, even that EV and guru try hard to make it be. The videos are prepared in a way that a person enters the cult little by little, and starts adopting the ideas of whom? Maharaji of course, even that he states 'his' Knowledge is only for the heart, what does it, what makes you get in is the brainwashing and repetitive messages he gives that a person needs a master in their life, that without his K life is empty.

The experience I had doing that service became horrible. In a way I felt 'guilty' when I began to read this forum still as a premie, thinking, beginning to realize what was really going on and how blind I was about the world I had adopted, world to which I dedicated myself, and I was collaborating to attract others? I left the cult of Maharaji about two years a go and I do not regret a bit of it. There is no rotten 'vegetables'! Just REAL freedom!

After living I felt an anger toward Maharaji that never felt before. I feel he violated the most intimate place I have: MY SOUL. I felt very angry for having spend so many years subjugated by his words which I found to be false to high limits. I feel angry, strong at times, as yesterday when my son (his father is still a premie) came and told me that I need to learn how to listen to Maharaji, that I had a bad attitude and that Maharaji had good things to say and offer to repeat what he had heard at his father's house. Apparently his father watched a video and my son heard it. My fear of my son falling the trap is too much and I promised to maharaji that if my son ever gets interested in his crap I will make HIM totally accountable for it and I will sue his ass so bad he is not going to believe it!

Mental manipulation is not nice, regardless as premies want to justify it. Mental manipulation is a crime, an intrusion of a being that eventually I'm sure will became illegal also in the US, or at least, is my wish. Maharaji has hurt many of us, our families, and basically modified our lives forever. Few days a go someone said in the forum that he took our dreams away and I agree totally. He killed our dreams teaching us to hate dreams, funny, he himself lives for them, engrossing his fortune... acquiring more and more luxurious items..... lying to people. Maharaji is a liar and I resent with all my heart that so many have died because of such a deluded master. Many committed suicide (I almost succeeded twice) in their effort to realize what Knowledge is and even knowing it he perpetuated the lie, afraid of what he was going to do for a living, as explained by Bob Mishler Mishler

In fact, he went along with this image change for about half a year. Then, when he saw that he wouldn't have the same kind of ascribed status that he had as the guru being God, he suddenly realised he wouldn't have the same kind of control over people. He started worrying about what was going to happen to him in terms of his finances.

So, I almost committed suicide because I couldn't love Maharaji and Knowledge as he said I should? Yes, I resent that immensely; all the pain and craziness I and my family went through could have been avoided, if I never cross paths with him....

Maharaji may think he won because he has managed to maintain himself afloat all these years, regardless of the consequences of his actions, but I'm sure he knows too that he lives in a country where people has rights, and that sooner or later we ex-premies will succeed even further bringing his monopolized breath down, totally. Each and every day he gets up determined to perpetuate the lie, but he sees his reflection in the mirror, accusing him of who he is, in reality, a punishment greater than our ex-premie site, his face, telling him what a pig he really is, deceiving people, violating their minds and their spirits. RAPER of SOULS.

He promised to show me God and then became my God himself, enslaving me in his cult with his false promises. The price for those moments of bliss over the years was very high, and I hope the price he has to pay for what he accomplished is great as well. Read, I wish the worse to you Maharaji, I honestly do and I am not ashamed to say it. How can I wish you otherwise?

Yes, there is life after Maharaji, in fact, what we learned as premies to be 'the best life' was just the opposite. I am not afraid to feel human anymore. I am not afraid to be me, finally.

Thanks to all the exes in the forums who helped me be who I am today. FREE.

Silvia, SB, Salsa

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Nov 28, 2001 at 04:48:50 (EST)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: Silvia Bernz
Subject: to all
Message:
Thanks to all who posted under my post.

Deb, we'll e-mail...

I wish I could respond better but can't. I must go to work.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Nov 28, 2001 at 06:59:28 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: jhb@ex-premie.org
To: Silvia
Subject: Can I post this on EPO as a journey?
Message:
Silvia,

Please email me regarding posting this an www.ex-premie.org

Thanks,

John Brauns
webmaster www.ex-premie.org

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Nov 28, 2001 at 07:06:52 (EST)
From: salsa
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Re: Can I post this on EPO as a journey?
Message:
Sure. Hi JH. ())
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 16:33:47 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: jhb@ex-premie.org
To: salsa
Subject: Could you email me, please
Message:
Salsa,

Sorry, but are you Silvia? If so, please email me as I don't post journeys without a verified email address.

Thanks,

John.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Nov 28, 2001 at 00:23:18 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Silvia Bernz
Subject: Fantabulous post
Message:
Silvia,

You were and are one of my favourite posters. Why? I find your introspection and reaction to Maha and his deception so honest, and realistic. I really don't understand how people could be polite and philosophical about being intimately ripped off and mentally abducted into a cult. SOUL RAPER is a good word. However, I'm not sure about the concept of soul, or self, thanks to Jim and Nigel (G is not sure) and the advent of the Dawkin's meme theory but that still doesn't affect the tragic outcome, that we were all intentionally abused by a cult leader's greed fopr power and money.

And, the fact that you attempted suicide based on this concept that he purposely propagated is exceptionally sinful on his part. Knowingly deceiving people is categorically a LIE. Nothing less, and Maha should have his Cult-leading ass sued off.

I will talk more with you about this topic via email.

good luck Silvia,

My advice to you regarding your son about knowledge is to videotape him talking about Maha and the cult doctrine. Videotape his father's discussions. It will help you distance yourself in the moment and it will definitely help your case down the road.

lots of love to you,

deborah

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 22:08:24 (EST)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: Silvia Bernz
Subject: a wonderful story
Message:
Sylvia.. how nice to hear from you.

You reminded me of the existance of the serious darshan chasers.. the few semi-professional souls who made it their raison d'etre to be as near to the front at an event, and who gravitated towards backstage service wherever possible.

I cant remember their names, but these people obviously had some private income... I would see them time after time at events.... not realising that I was one of them too.

Jo Lesley in the UK was great to travel with.. very organised ! I cant remember the other ladys name of the UK variety...but bless their souls ! (Anth... you will know her.. she lived for a while in Kensington...hung out with Josh... ooooh its on the tip of me tongue..)

On the surface there was a bliss and a joy, but it was also had work for people to keep up with him - especially in the early/mid 90s when touring went a bit bananas.

But it was great fun.

Los Bandidos he called us once. I found some lovely people... Miguel from Bolivia in Miami... sweet sweet guys. Also there was this couple from South America, really nice, they had a baby and carted it round to events... and one of them was quite often at the stage door to see M arrive or depart.

I really bloody enjoyed myself ! I somehow wish I could be angrier...

The one problem with password protected posting (PPP) is that there will be fewer surprises on this forum. I hope not. I urge people to get a password and post and tell us all how you have been.

Ian Warburton aka Loafie
xx

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Nov 28, 2001 at 18:54:11 (EST)
From: Nottingham Bunny
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: Jo Lesley's friend
Message:
Hi Loaf

You're thinking of Sandra Roberts, great personality and dedicated Gopi, who still lives in Kensington.

Bunny

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 14:10:35 (EST)
From: Francesca :O)
Email: None
To: Silvia Bernz
Subject: THIS IS A JOURNEY
Message:
Dear Silvia,

This is really your journey. You've told parts of the story before, and each time it is clearer to me. When I got on David Lovejoy's case about the suicides, I had forgotten to consider all the attempts that (mercifully) failed!

Love and peace,

Francesca

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 15:46:16 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Francesca :O)
Subject: Sure is! Great stuff, Silvia
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 10:45:57 (EST)
From: Because
Email: None
To: Silvia Bernz
Subject: Re: My simple Journal
Message:
if I keep waiting I will never write it. I just sat and wrote it.

hahahhaa()) the laugh is on him...

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 12:22:19 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Because
Subject: Amazing tale
Message:
Excellent journalism, Silvia. Your recall of those days of innocence and wonder really hit home with me. You were there, know how it affected you and lived to tell the tale. I'm so glad you did not succeed in checking yourself off the planet.

Richard

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 14:44:52 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Incredible
Message:
This is a very dynamic posting. Francesca is right, it would make a great journey. The more we took M straight into our heart and soul, the more painful it is to extricate one's self from the facade and embrace truth, as in reality.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 04:33:53 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Every man for himself
Message:
I've been trying to be policeman but it really is tedious. I did it because of all the emails I got asking me to exorcise the forum ghosts.

Many of you were very badly insulted and wrote to ask that personal attacks and defamatory remarks be deleted. It was almost worse than CAC in a way because it was ongoing. As one person said to me she got a knot in her stomach every time she came here lately.

I've tried TROLL alerts and blocking but it takes all the fun out of being here. I regard this place as an online community and would like it to be troll free but the only way that will happen is with a password protected forum. CD did the same thing for the premies. Life is Great is dead because the premies are posting on his pw protected forum.

This forum will always need to be here as a gateway. I would suggest that those who do not wished to be attacked by cultweasels post on the protected forums. Several of these exist already. I'll be happy to talk to you about them by email.

Those of us who have stronger stomachs can continue to post here and talk to new people and guide them between the Scylla and Charybdis of Cacroaches and cultweasels.

But I strongly urge anyone who does not wish to be attacked to consider one of the protected forums. The audience for them can be expanded by email notification. I can no longer be a policeman. It is really has to be everyone for himself.

If you see defamatory remarks posted to you please email me and I will remove them but I will not be deliberately looking for them or reading the trolls unless my attention is drawn to them.

I will be ignoring them from now on and urge everyone else to do so. If you don't have the stomach to look at a post to you which you think may be defamatory ask a buddy to read it for you and tell me if it needs to be deleted.

Doing battle with vermin is boring. I'm sorry to be so selfish but I'm really not into selfless service anymore and we are all big pewople now and need to take care of oursleves.

As I said I will delete whatever is defamatory but that's the extent of my policing activities. I can be much better company for all here if I can relax and just start enjoying the forum again without being the security guard.

Part of the socalled fun that the trolls have been having here is seeing how far they can push me around and keep me on my toes. That's typical schoolyard bully behavior and is best ignored. The more you fight it the more they enjoy it.

So heads up everyone and let me know if I can do something that you can't do like clean up shitty troll droppings. You find the varmints and I'll exterminate them.

PS I just spend the last half hour deleting a slew of spam from ****/bozo and blocking it but it will get a new IP and be back again. I'm not an IT pro but I do know that the blocking software on Hotboards is very rudimentary and does not always work.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 12:14:18 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Re: Every man for himself
Message:
PatC,

It appears Gerry has erased the Trolls, CacRoaches and Spam Sandwhiches for good. The success of passwording the forum remains to be seen but at least you wont have to be on constant roach patrol.

Thanks for all of your duties as UN mediator.

Richard

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 11:12:44 (EST)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Say not the struggle naught availeth
Message:

SAY NOT THE STRUGGLE NAUGHT AVAILETH


Arthur Hugh Clough
    Say not the struggle naught availeth
    The labor and the wounds are vain,
    The enemy faints not, nor faileth,
    And as things have been they remain.

    If hopes were dupes, fears may be liars;
    It may be, in yon smoke concealed,
    Your comrades chase e'en now the fliers,
    And, but for you, possess the field.

    For while the tired waves, vainly breaking,
    Seem here, no painful inch to gain,
    Far back, through creeks and inlets making,
    Comes silent, flooding in, the main.

    And not by eastern windows only,
    When daylight comes, comes in the light,
    In front, the sun climbs slow, how slowly,
    But westward, look, the land is bright.

Chill Pat, why not just ask gerry to break out them deputy's badges? Given 24 hourish cover the CACroaches *will* get tired of their pointless service.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 09:48:05 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Re: Every man for himself
Message:
Hi Pat,

I can see that it's near impossible to keep on top of the trolls. If it's that tedious and time-comsuming, well, that's fine...it's a forum for you, too.

I absolutely do not want a passworded forum. I believe by passwording it would definitely put off sincere premies and fence-sitters who want to talk here.

Thanks for your efforts, Pat,
Cynthia

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 15:51:33 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Thanks guys, but all moot now
Message:
I just wish Gerry had told me about his revolution before I wrote that post. I was up late typing it with one hand and holding one eye open with the other. ;)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 01:50:15 (EST)
From: Skippy
Email: None
To: All
Subject: anniversary
Message:
It is approximately a year since I first realised the next step to take was to get free from M an K. It has been a fabulous year. I feel as if life has finally begun. As if it is safe to grow up and to get in there and compete with the people I had previously thought were benighted and needing of my nurture. Never mind they were obviously enjoying life more than me. I remember when I first looked into K I told myself that if I ever found a higher truth I would have to go with that. This had been partly what gave me courage to defy Catholic teachings and follow M in the first place. What a revelation to find the higher truth was I had submitted to brain washing and been duped. I too feel embarassed. Still, we were part of the mentality of a naive era and we made our choices then as now. Thank god for the internet and the patience and courage of those who went public with the facts.
Thanks and many thanks guys. When I first looked into the forum I thought you were nuts! What a jolt it was to realise I was the nut.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 13:15:25 (EST)
From: Carl
Email: None
To: Skippy
Subject: Re: anniversary
Message:
Your post sounds jubilant. And you should be!

With whatever time remains to us we can live according to the solid information available to us, alert to scientific perceptions, and yet also to listen to the intuition and promptings of our own informed consciences, not the reinforcements of a cult-driven mythology and goopy pit of magical thinking.

Even if you choose to continue with a meditation practice at least it won't be encumbered by a psychic taxi-meter racking up a fee (for meditation mileage) that you'll feel pressured to "donate" to someone who claims (wink wink) to have all the answers.

Best wishes,
Carl

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 09:53:51 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Skippy
Subject: Hi Skippy...
Message:
Congratulations! You sound happy and well.

I'm proud that I have had the courage to exit such a mind-f**king cult. It's difficult and sometimes painful, but also the route to real freedom of self.

Now that's enjoying life!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 04:02:08 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Skippy
Subject: Hi, Skippy
Message:
I'm nearly at my one year anniversary too - one more month to go. Yes, I also thought these guys were nuts when I first read here and I'm also grateful to those who paved the way for me to get out of the tiny little ''world of Maharaji.'' Sure glad I chewed my leash off and ran away from that massa.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 03:44:45 (EST)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Skippy
Subject: Hey Skippy
Message:
Where have you been, haven't seen much of you on the boards, thanks for posting. It seems like there are a lot of us coming coming up on our first year of freedom from the cult. 2000 seems like it was a productive year for exiting and this year looks to be even better.

I do hope to hear more from you and I wish you a happy first year anniversary.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 12:30:25 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Brian Smith
Subject: Hey Skippy
Message:
Nice going, Skippy. Me too. It'll be a year of posting soon. However, I should confess that I lurked on every forum from F1 onward. In the big'ning it was, as a Brit friend says, Premie Porn. You read it but don't let on to any other premie. Apparently it was also 'food for the mind' because now I can chew gum and tie my shoes at the same time.

Richard

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 23:45:22 (EST)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: All
Subject: That did it. No more computers for me
Message:
We all use computers to save time, but one thing a
computer does not do is save time. Calling
someone up and talking to them is a lot better than e-mail because e-mail is actually very time consuming. One, you have to type it up, and, two,
you have to read what you have typed, which will just be duplicated on the other side - because that's what the other person has to do too. On
the phone, you can do this simultaneously. That's much better technology.

And not only that, you can vary your words. If you had to say, 'I mean no!' you don't have to underline it for emphasis, you just say, 'I mean no.' It's instant.

There will be a time when you won't be able to use your computer any more.

But we have all jumped on the bandwagon. We are all cool, because we have this status symbol, an e-mail address. Now, for me, when I see somebody has an e-mail address, I know they have time on
their hands. And there will be a time - this is a new analogy, this is definitely a 21st Century analogy - when you won't be able to use your computer any more. Saints have said, 'A time will come when you won't be able to do this, you won't be able to do that,' but they never talked about computers. So here's a new one: you won't be able to use your computer. Your finger will be too weak to turn it on. And you will not really know if it has turned on or not because you won't be able to hear the 'boink' of turning it on.

Abouve from the gibbrish, is he implying that he is a saint. How does that work? you know, becoming a saint. Can I apply please?
[ elan news letter ]

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 18:09:46 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: He once gave a satsang.....
Message:
Comparing the internet to the advent of automobiles. Everyone had one but no one used it. They were just parked in the carriage house and people still got out their horse and buggies. He said the internet needed to get going, so it would be useful.

Hmmmmm.........but I forgot. The master can change the rules. Even his own or is that especially his own?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 14:44:04 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: The rest of the newsletter is funny too
Message:
The rest of the newsletter, where M plays stupid word games and tries to sell it all as 'clarity' is also bizarre. Whoever said this guy was smart, I'm sorry, I don't buy it.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 14:55:58 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: But scoring Ghandi must make M burn
Message:
Did you notice that Satpal had Rajiv Ghandi's widow and head of the Congress Party on stage with him? M must be burning with envy. What's he got to compare? A 28 year-old busted up cream pie with the key to the City of Detroit in it somewhere?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 14:51:20 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: The rest of the newsletter is funny too
Message:
Well, they say your feed back is most appreciated if ya scroll down to the bottom of the page. Ya think Erika has a new job there deciding what feedback is appropriate?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 12:11:36 (EST)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Re: That did it. No more computers for me
Message:
You can't hear the boink? But can hear someone talking on the other end of a phone?
oh boy. It gets weirder and weirder. Now why wouldn't M like computers?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 12:44:17 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Hi Selene...
Message:
Funny, eh? That now he hates computers...

How are you?
Love,
Cynthia

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 14:24:35 (EST)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: remembering
Message:
When he used to brag about his techie toys, etc.
Am OK.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 10:31:15 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: More Banal Rubbish...
Message:
Hi Salam and all,

This is from the top of the page which Salam linked to the EV Newsletter above:

Edited Excerpt, Maharaji in Curacao, 1st September 2001

''Somebody said a long time ago that everything that you can see with
these eyes is maya, all illusion. When I first heart (sic) that, I thought, 'That's a little extreme.' But it's not. It's the understatement of the century.

''Sometimes, a day seems to go by too fast, sometimes, it's rather slow. Isn't that an illusion, because it's not really varying. Sometimes all is good, and sometimes, though nothing has really changed, all is bad. Could you define illusion better than that? Nothing has changed. Maybe the day just went from Tuesday to Wednesday. That's all that happened. Instead of the fourth, it went to the fifth. But one day, you get up and think, 'Great,' and another day, you wake up and think, 'Oh, my God. Why me?' That's what happens. You're looking at it one way, nothing changes, and you're looking at it another way.

''There is an alternative to all this, and it's really simple. It's called clarity. Instead of drowning in the sea of questions, there is the alternative of the beautiful paradise island of 'answer'. There
is an alternative. In the land of forgetfulness, there is remembrance.

''People talk about how to improve their short-term memory. But the real short-term memory is remembrance of this breath, of this existence. Remember that, and do not let another day go by, another moment go by, where you are not comfortable with this life.

''I'm not dictating about what you should do and what you shouldn't do. All I am telling you is that, if you became comfortable with this existence, with this life, with this moment, with this breath, you
would realize a realm of joy unparalleled.''

So, two new excerpts from the Rev. Rotwat's little, little mind. As quoted above in Salam's post, he's now anti-computer. Wow. Ain't that a surprise! If you read that computer quote closely it's all directed at EPO and us exes. Not a post gets posted without his....

What interested me more was his use of the word Maya and illusion AGAIN! In the third paragraph of his speech he talks about 'drowning in the sea of questions' (hmmm) which he says will not give one clarity. Yup, don't ask questions, nor let your curious human minds seek answers. And, don't worry about your short-term memory because the most important thing to remember is your breath!

Desperate is what the goober is. And also sinking in the illusion of his own life.

What a freak. What's next? The telephone is a status symbol in the sea of questions? Or, short-term memory loss is good for living in ''Paradise.'' (Never mind, he did say that!!!)

Cynthia, pass the barf bag please

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 07:24:54 (EST)
From: Isn't the Speaker really saying
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: 'you can deny phone conversation...
Message:
...but an email could hold you accountable and may cause ME problems
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 10:51:52 (EST)
From: salsa
Email: None
To: Isn't the Speaker really saying
Subject: of course
Message:
EV (maharaji) do not do ONE thing without a purposse and clearly that is the hidden motive, well, that is what I tought too.

())

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 06:29:02 (EST)
From: salsa
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: is it a joke? NT
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 03:51:33 (EST)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Too weak in the finger
Message:
to turn on my computer, maybe on my death-bed! But never too weak in the mind or spirit to see through this Simpleton's weak representation of sainthood.

What a joke

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 02:17:05 (EST)
From: Byline
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Edited Excerpt, Maharaji in Curacao September 2001 [nt]
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 00:58:50 (EST)
From: B
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Re: That did it. No more computers for me
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 01:03:51 (EST)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: B
Subject: Re: That did it. No more computers for me
Message:
The amazing thing is in the 1800's this great technology was invented to send messages down a wire to far away places (telegraph). Email is not a 'new' technology, just the method and place of delivery, and the convenience have changed - I agree phones can be a better method or more exact to some extent but nothing beats face to face, thats whn you can really tell the speaker is jerking your chain.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 00:26:22 (EST)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Hmmm
Message:
If a person is so weak they can't turn a computer on and too deaf to hear it clunk, they're going to be too weak and deaf to make a phone call too. Duh...

Anyway, are you implying that Maharaji said all of that? I don't believe you. Nobody would come out with clap trap like that.

You made it up, didn't you.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 05:52:27 (EST)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Re: Hmmm
Message:
do you know me to say such things. Why would I? I hardly read the forum. It happened after reading JHB post below regarding EV's decline and I wondered if their site was still there or not. I was hoping he gives me some clues on using the Pentium 4.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 04:18:19 (EST)
From: Brian smith
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: truth is stranger than fiction
Message:
and often times even funnier. What is really hilarious is that the discourse you are referring to actually was posted up on the EV site as a stellar example of the goobers wisdom, no kidding.

I checked out the link and there it was, straight from the crown of creations mouth. This silly drivel contructed in an attempt to create the paranoia that you will one day weaken and die, and they do not have computers in the afterlife, imagine that.

So you just might just as well get used to that idea right now and quit using them, they are evil time wasters they create a false sense of pride and that doesn't play well in nirvana. Besides you might stumble across the ex-premie site and start asking stupid questions about me, like am I a money grubbing greedy fraud? and so on etc.

Watch for the EV sponsored used computer sale, tax deductable non-profit fundraiser. That coupled with the clean out your drawers of old european currency campaign might generate enough loose change to gas up the challenger for one more run back to amaroo.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 01:51:37 (EST)
From: Zelda
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: email address is a status symbol?????
Message:
ok . The speaker couldnt have said that.
Impossible
Even he has more brains .

Only a pretentious fool would say such a stupid thing.

unless he is so out of touch with people that he thinks they think he thinks it is so.....

which is frightening

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 22:53:30 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: All
Subject: M Accomplishes Goals, Tells Friends
Message:
This from the Onion, I mean, ELK:

San Francisco Event

25 November 2001

In the midsummer of 2000 my wife Cathy and I came up with the idea of hosting an Indian Dinner at our house to support the effort to invite Maharaji to speak at an event in the Bay Area. With the help of some friends we served dinner to over 30 people on our deck overlooking the San Francisco Bay. The evening was enjoyed by all and proved to be very successful.

Earlier this summer many people with Knowledge in Northern California came together to focus on propagation in the area. A resolution came out of that meeting to make preparations to invite Maharaji to the Bay Area. The project came to fruition on Friday 23 Nov 2001 when Maharaji attended an event in San Francisco in response to our invitation. The event was sponsored by the Bay Area community and everyone who attended received a personal invitation on the phone through local contacts.

The whole feel of the event was much more informal and relaxed than we had previously been used to devoid of many of the organizational trappings so familiar to us over the years.

Maharaji set the tone of the event early on in his talk by saying that he was thinking of not wearing a suit and tie when he attended these type of events, questioning the need to dress so formally , when what he was actually doing was ' coming to spend some time with his friends'. He went on to say that he had been waiting a long time to do these kind of more informal events and he was clearly excited that he was finally able to do them.

Oh no! Now he's going to blame us for making him wear a tie all those years! It was the 'corporate types', I can hear it now.

During his talk he referred to a conversation he recently had with his brother concerning Maharaji 's fulfilling of the mission given to him by his father Sri Maharaji 'To spread Knowledge to every land'. His brother pointed out that Maharaji had actually accomplished that goal and that now he could do what he (Maharaji) wanted to do!

Raja Ji ...... LOL .... speechless ....LOL ...no, really, LOL!

After talking for over an hour Maharaji then offered the audience the opportunity to speak to him. He said that there where many people who have had Knowledge for 20-30 years and never had the chance to speak to him personally and now was their chance. He made it clear from the outset that he didn't want questions about 'enlightenment etc.'

He then spent the next hour listening and responding to comments from the audience of approximately 500 people. Many people who spoke expressed their deep appreciation for everything Maharaji had done for them in their lives and gratitude was pouring abundantly from the hearts of those who spoke. Some were clearly overwhelmed and could not find words to express their feelings, others tried to condense 20 or so years of gratitude into a few short sentences. Maharaji listened to all with great love and respect, responding with his usual eloquence and wit to the great diversity of speakers, with some gentle and loving, and with others playful and teasing. In closing he said that he hoped to hold more of these type of sessions so that those people who hadn't had the opportunity to interact with him on this occasion would be able to do so.

'Many' ....? Wasn't there a single person willing to talk honestly with his 'friend'?

It felt very refreshing to be with Maharaji in a more intimate setting and Cathy and I felt really happy to have contributed in a small way (through our Indian Dinner) to the realization of a dream, Maharaji coming to see us in San Francisco.

From: Barry Laplain, Marin County USA

This month, Maharaji also attended events in Philadelphia, Phoenix and San Diego - all at the invitation of local people.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 08:24:09 (EST)
From: verde
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: it was time
Message:
So, he is going to talk to us?

Premies didn't expect anything from maharaji and they didn't waited as us and got the 'opportunity' to dialogue with Lord, then, don't you thing we, poor souls, fallen angeles, should have the opportunity to talk with him too?

What about ALL of us e-mailing him to let him know that we read EV's site and learned that he is willing to talk to PEOPLE and that we would be delighted engaging in a REAL conversation with him? After all, many of us spent decades with him ... and do deserve it. How can he think is it's alright to simply ignore us...?

He is a chicken and he is never to talk to us, I know, but at least e-mailing him can remind him we are here.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 10:45:29 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: verde
Subject: Ummm...About that tie thing...
Message:
I distinctly remember watching a video about three years ago or so. Maharaji was talking about why he wears suits and ties. He said he liked wearing suits and ties because they are comfortable. He also said that once, when he was at a training seminar for pilots, one of the other attendees asked him why he always wears a suit and tie.

Maharaji's response to that was ''Because I can afford to.''

So, poo on him.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 17:55:04 (EST)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: I thought his Krishna Suit was his real outfit
Message:
Remember when he said his Krishna & mala get-ups were his real clothes and his suits just costumes?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 05:56:17 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: M Accomplishes Goals, Tells Friends
Message:
But the real question is, did he light up, pour a cognac, invite Monica on stage, check his hash stash, balance his Swiss bank account statement, explain Seva and the other shell corporations, check on Jagdeo's latest hide out via cell phone all the while yelling at PAM's? Now that would have been relaxed, intimate and a chance for a refreshing encounter with the Speaker.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 09:56:11 (EST)
From: RichMandrake
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: the Writer formerly known as BTDT...
Message:
Pithily put as always Vicki...;-)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 06:12:09 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: so lets encourage him!
Message:
the future such invites should clearly invite him to unwind and do just that, with his friends likewise.
and secretly videotape it and disribute the tapes in india
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 04:52:42 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Translation
Message:
Ten years ago an event in SF would have drawn 5,000 premies not 500. Invitations were not issued on the EV website but only by ''personal phone calls from local contacts.'' That means they were probably scared of the SF Latvian contingent turning up. With a closed event (like a password protected forum) the Speaker can let his hair down and flirt with the devotees and need not wear a tie. Oh my!

Interestingly the one premie who was doing propagation and had several aspirants lined up (whereas the church ladies had none) was deliberately NOT invited to that fund-raising dinner. He was not told it was for regular donors only and that he was not one of them but that is what he surmised and he has since become estranged from the local PWKs because of that as have his aspirants.

It really is an irrelevant silly little guru worshipping cult. It is so ridiculous that I would have stopped criticizing it if it had not been for CAC and the cultweasel trolls. These have shown me that the cult is producing deranged and possibly dangerous fanatical lunatics. I don't like being threatened and I don't like seeing my friends being duped by Rawat and the creeps who help him run the business.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 02:02:28 (EST)
From: Pullaver
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Deja Vu
Message:
Maharaji set the tone of the event early on in his talk by saying that he was thinking of not wearing a suit and tie when he attended these type of events, questioning the need to dress so formally , when what he was actually doing was ' coming to spend some time with his friends'. He went on to say that he had been waiting a long time to do these kind of more informal events and he was clearly excited that he was finally able to do them.

This is reminiscent of the time back in the early '80s when margie embarked on a major PR campaign of 'de-mystification', when he also held Q&A's in response to the ashram debacle and other travesties. That was an attempt to portray margie as 'one of us', fallible, a person we could even interact with socially, etc. Seems like EPO and Forum VII revelations requires another PR campaign designed to assuage any doubting Thomas(es).

Here we have the folksy, low-key margie again, oh boy, no suit or tie needed now. Premies everywhere will take the cue and lose the Armani/fashion plate facade and actually, yikes, dress down . . . this is it, the missing piece in order for propogation to work in the west - be casual . . . but fear not, arti, fascist trainings, and never doubting the purity of the master are just around the corner love.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 04:45:04 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: Pullaver
Subject: Re: Deja Vu
Message:
And dressing down is cheaper than suits and fancy dresses. All the more money to donate with.....

The really interesting thing is these comments from M are in direct line with postings made on the Forum. He's been waiting a long time indeed to travel the US more intimately.
Let's see, 500 people at $100 each, that comes out to fifty thousand dollars for one hours worth of talk. Not bad wages, if ya can get it.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 01:08:07 (EST)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Hey Jim!
Message:
Maybe you could invite M to one of your friday night jamathons!
You know, serve shots for thirty, or so. Tie optional of course.
'Hey guru boy! Jump on those drum pads there will ya? Barry won't get here till 12!'
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 00:54:05 (EST)
From: Andrea Eriksonn
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Of COURSE it was Nice...
Message:
It's always nice, when you don't filter out the GOOD. You only need to filter out all the BAD, like all you BAD, nasty ex-students of The Teacher. That's what all the smart cards are for, to filter out the folks who are too ungrateful. And even some of the gratitude impaired were allowed to attend, once they showed photo I.D. and were properly screened, and every effort made been made to make them feel guilty enough to cough up the door fee ''donation''.

If you all weren't so busy filtering out the good, you would see that He was just filtering out the ungrateful cheapskates, and the people who wanted to ask awkward, unpleasant questions, or talk about ''enlightenment'' or other such new age crap that has nothing to do with The Master. In fact, it opposes Him! Concepts like "Enlightenment" just complicates things and gets in the way of the important work He's trying to do!

And YES, you ex-students DID force Him to wear ties, the same way you FORCED Him to be the Messiah, with all your Judao-Christian morality concepts, when all He wanted to do all along was be groovy and hang out with His generous friends with trust funds, and tell bathroom jokes, smoke weed and ''do'' blonde chicks, and remind us to breath and be happy, and take credit for it, NOT talk about ''enlightenment'' (He HATES that). When I think about how much YOU all have abused HIM, it just makes me want to cry!

I personally feel grateful and privledged to pay large donations to get to know The Teacher's stage and screen persona more intimately (And by donations I don't mean the entry fee, I mean the money we were all hit up for at the commitee meetings beforehand, to make it all possible.) I'm so grateful to be able to use that money to hear The Teacher remind me to breath, and to suggest that He might even do so in the future, without even wearing His tie, ooohhh, it was SO intimate and personal! The kids didn't need all those christmas presents anyway, and besides, I know that MY Santa is counting whose naughty or nice! As a significant doner, I'm sure I'm on the NICE list now!

I just hope more of you cheapskate-bum ex-students drop out! The less PAMS around, the better my chances are of getting to pay thousands to be invited on the Yacht. I'm even thinking of going blonde!

Andrea Eriksonn,

Who knows life is great, when you don't filter out the good, and you DO give lots of money to The Master who reminds you to breath and be grateful and never doubt His purity, and who is REALLY You-Know-Who, giving You-Know-What. ;) :) :P

P.S. I forgot to mention, I'm also NORMAL and NOT in a CULT! And really nice, too.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 15:24:20 (EST)
From: Auntie Eureeka
Email: None
To: Andrea Eriksonn
Subject: Re: Of COURSE it was Nice...
Message:
Finally, someone with some wits about them, having something decent to say about my sister's Speaker/Teacher/Never-said-I-was-a-lord Lord.

Now if you snooty exe's with high falootin' rootin' tootin' e-mail addresses would channel your energy into breathing some life back into your poor deluded perception of reality, well then maybe, just maybe my sister's Master will consider having Elan Vital, of which he has no control or input, notify you of the next event. But don't count on it. Until you here can demonstrate that you can put your head in the sand and simply refuse to acknowledge my sister's Master's behaviour as having any bearing on the practice of knowledge or devotion, well you'll just have to live with the consequences of your actions. You know idle hands are the devil's workshop, so put them to work writing out checks to Prem Pal Rawatt and Elan Vital, then and only then will we let you back into the Club Prem. Or not. But we will definitely cash your checks.

Love and Kisses,
Auntie Eureeka

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 22:36:50 (EST)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Whats a son of a bitch?
Message:
This guy! ha ha ha ha
[ http://acousticoutlaw.tripod.com/blam.html ]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 13:07:13 (EST)
From: Ulf
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: ?????? nt. ( testing )
Message:
mmmmm
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 22:39:55 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: That is SO ot and SOOO funny! [nt]
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 22:51:42 (EST)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: had to do it. (ot)
Message:
Sorry for the subject interuption etc...
I cracked a hose when I saw it too!
How are ya Jim? Things are getting a might bit better here.
The weather is hell though,
3 feet of snow so far and about 6 below.
Mail ya soon.
bar
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 22:32:34 (EST)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Gerry
Message:
What's the idea behind changing the forum name?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 10:50:34 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: What?
Message:
So you noticed, eh? Just a streak of independence matey, that damned sovereignty issue again. Just won't go away.

Plus I'm registered at Paypal and Amazon for donations as 'Forum Seven.' At the time I thought to make this change and then forgot to do it. Another 'senior moment' I fear...

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:23:45 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: jhb@ex-premie.org
To: All
Subject: New Journey and White Pages Entries
Message:
Paul Richards from Devon in the UK has posted his short and sweet Journey, and White Pages entry.

Other new White Pages entries are John Macgregor from Byron Bay, Australia; Jethro Cadbury from London, UK; and Susan Pszenitzki (nee Stein) from Connecticut, US.

John.
[ Paul Richards' Journey ]

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 14:34:08 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Thanks, John. Paul's Journey....
Message:
...is a little gem. I'd love to hear more from you, Paul.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:00:43 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: All
Subject: It-Ain't-So has become a SEX site
Message:
How embarrassing. www.it-aint-so.org has now become a rather tasteful sex site. But let me warn you, all you gay guys and straight women will probably not be interested.

I hope Pia's relatives can complain.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:06:37 (EST)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: All
Subject: They probably can't complain
Message:
Fun news :) - update [from ELK]

19 November 2001

Last night Maharaji spoke for over an hour at a regional event in Westchester, New York. And then answered questions from his 600 plus students gathered there from the New York- New England region only. Truly a surprise visit !

What a treat :) He had us all laughing and crying to our hearts content. To be a living student of the living master giving the Knowledge of life is everything, more than the best dream anyone could ever come up with.

Thank you Maharaji for making it possible for me , and anyone who wants, to completely fulfill this existence.

From Janice Wilson, Baldwinville, NY

26 November 2001

We asked Janice to give us some more details, she wrote:

The events were done as local, regional events,by the communities, not Elan Vital. Maharaji wanted them small. In Westchester there were 650 people and in Philadelphia,
the next day, Monday, about 400.. We were notified by phone mainly and via local, regional email addresses and asked to attend the event in our region only. Most people didnot even know where the other events were happening.. I attended NY only, it was more than enough ! For me it was one of the most fun, fulfilling events ever.A beautiful surprise from him to me. I am still enjoying what I received there from him and expect to be for the rest of this life. (Don't wash that hand, Janice. Ever.)

I hadn't been able to see him live in person (??) in about one and a half years, absence sure makes the heart grow fonder and fuller! And I also lucked out with a close seat :) (It really doesn't get much better than that, now does it?)

What a gift ! For myself and everyone I know attending. It was so much fun to laugh with him at the questions, comments and jokes. (AT the questions ...?) I heard later he said New Yorkers had a good sense of humor, he
liked that. (Yeah, he must have been impressed with yours, Janice. You sound like a complete goon!) :) Since I wasn't in Amaroo this year for the skits etc, I felt like I got 'caught ' up on my need to be with Maharaji personally, up close... (What a funny internal checklist she must have!)

It seems the master is always one step or more ahead of us, not allowing us to take this living, gift and make it static. (But how oculd that ever happen? Why just the other day she was blethering on about how fresh and blah blah blah it all was. If they ever make a movie about the last days of the cult, they simply MUST get Lily Tomlin to play Janice. What ws the name of that operator character? Josephine?)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 11:10:39 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To:

Subject: Re: More on the Fun Event from Janice
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 18:42:54 (EST)
From: Kelly
Email: karen@ringrose.org.uk
To: All
Subject: First anniversary posting
Message:
It is exactly one year since I first posted on the forum under the heading “Lord or Fraud?” I had intended to write a long post over the weekend and call it “ Lord or Fraud revisited” However my husband George (never a premie) was very ill over the weekend and admitted to hospital this morning. A few months ago he was diagnosed with advanced stage lung cancer (for two years he had been told it was something else)

I tell you this because I want to explain to all my forum friends, where I’ve been all this time. As you can imagine, it has really taken over our lives, and certainly all my spare Internet time has been spent in researching the condition and treatments. (Conventional, complementary and indeed, alternative)

It has been a thoroughly earth shattering experience. Looking death in the face, though at second hand in my case, but facing the prospect of watching my loved one suffer and die. It’s been tough, but it has also been very touching and very life enhancing, feeling so much love and support from friends and family, And…the thing I most want to mention here is, how very very glad I am that I had got out of the cult before this happened. If I hadn’t, I feel sure I would have sought refuge there, that I would have used it as a crutch. Maybe I’d even have tried to get George to receive Knolidge before he died….Heaven forbid!

I remember how I felt, exactly a year ago, when I pressed the submit button….I was very nervous, it seemed such a big step, and then waiting, for a response or…worse still, no response! Maybe they’ll ignore me. But of course you didn’t, you welcomed me warmly and offered me support and friendship and better still, some insight into the strange predicament in which I found myself. The previous two weeks had also been an earth shattering experience, as I went through the awakening, the exiting process, as it dawned on me that, Omigod, I’m in a cult! I remember shaking as I read EPO. I remember how utterly horrified I was when I saw through it all and how I thought I would never be able to trust my own judgement again. What a compete idiot I’d been. Even now I think my predominant emotion is embarrassment. How could I have fallen for all that rubbish!

I have been reading here from time to time, more so lately, and it’s been very interesting. John Macgregor of course has been a real shot in the arm, I’ve printed his posts out along with some of Joe’s and Nigel’s and others. Never forget what a valuable service you all provide here, it really is a lifeline for the wavering and the freshly emerging imagens! How much better life has been! No more separation, no more looking for “that place inside” no more living in “the world of Knolidge.” “That Place” has become this place, this world, this life, and I love it!

George is recovering and should be out of hospital in a few days, building up the strength for another dose of chemotherapy.

Love to you all, and Happy Anniversary to me!

Kelly
(Karen Ringrose)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Nov 29, 2001 at 16:14:30 (EST)
From: magiclara
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: Re: First anniversary posting
Message:
Just wanted to add my congratulations and good wishes for you and your husband. I have never talked to you on here, but I have heard good things about you from people who know you. I hope to meet you one day.
Best wishes Mags
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Nov 28, 2001 at 20:31:04 (EST)
From: Nige and Moley
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: Good to hear you -lots of love
Message:
Hi Kelly,

Nige: Great to hear from you, Kelly, despite the grim circumstances. Can really relate to where you said you were glad you got out before the present situation (Having once known a similar episode, trying to give fucking satsang to my dying brother on the last occasion I met him, I can assure you there is nothing in this world you would regret more...) At least you won't have to do that reminder about imagining Lardy's face at the moment of your death...yuk..and ten billion times double yuk...

Anyway, we're thinking about you, and hoping you're bearing up. You sound very together and that's what probably counts. I think your hubby couldn't hope for better company in the days or months ahead.

Hope to meet up with you again someday, Kelly. Me and Moley are only a couple of hours away from you, and we're planning some sort of Latvian wedding before long. Keep in touch. xxx

Moley here: Hello - sending you lots of love - I remember giving 'satsang' to my mother after my step-father killed himself ... Christ- I can't even think about it too much.
Do you live on the Lleyn pennisula? That's one of my favourite places... even though I visited it witn my (mad) first husband!?
Again, lots of love to you ... and George ...
xxx Moley

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Nov 28, 2001 at 20:29:29 (EST)
From: Nige and Moley
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: Good to hear you -lots of love
Message:
Hi Kelly,

Nige: Great to hear from you, Kelly, despite the grim circumstances. Can really relate to where you said you were glad you got out before the present situation (Having once known a similar episode, trying to give fucking satsang to my dying brother on the last occasion I met him, I can assure you there is nothing in this world you would regret more...) At least you won't have to do that reminder about imagining Lardy's face at the moment of your death...yuk..and ten billion times double yuk...

Anyway, we're thinking about you, and hoping you're bearing up. You sound very together and that's what probably counts. I think your hubby couldn't hope for better company in the days or months ahead.

Hope to meet up with you again someday, Kelly. Me and Moley are only a couple of hours away from you, and we're planning some sort of Latvian wedding before long. Keep in touch. xxx

Moley here: Hello - sending you lots of love - I remember giving 'satsang' to my mother after my step-father killed himself ... Christ- I can't even think about it too much.
Do you live on the Lleyn pennisula? That's one of my favourite places... even though I visited it witn my (mad) first husband!?
Again, lots of love to you ... and George ...
xxx Moley

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Nov 28, 2001 at 17:50:22 (EST)
From: Kelly
Email: karen@ringrose.org.uk
To: Kelly
Subject: Hi and thanks to you all
Message:
I really appreciate your messages of support, thank you all very much.

Last night I had some time when I got home from the hospital and wanted to respond to several posts, but no password! I've got it now and I hope it works.
Thanks Vicki for that info, I think I know about it, is the Nevada clinic

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Nov 28, 2001 at 11:11:40 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: Re: First anniversary posting
Message:
Kelly,

Hi, I've just come to the Forum a few months back so we haven't spoken via postings. My mom is currently undergoing treatment for non-hodgkins lymphoma. I've just learned that it can also strike the lungs. We seem to have a real increase in California and my personal suspician is that Round-up which is an herbicide, is causing havic. It gets into the air during aerial spraying and then again during the burning of the fields before replanting. My kid's pediatrician also noticed a substantial increase, year by year, in weird respiratory ailments, with residential lawn spraying. Also, coal co-generation plants are killers for healthy air. We had to move cross country to get away from them, and now they are popping up in California, as well.

There is a clinic in Reno, Nevada, that you might like to take a look at the web site. I personally know of people who were not given much hope who have made miraculous progress. The founding doctor was run out of San Franciso by the medical profession. She was having too much success in treating cancer. California has a law which literally prohibits doctors from informing patients of alternative courses of medicine, so she moved to Nevada which has no such law.

My own mom was improved significantly with accupuncture and Chinese herbal medicine (never wanted to know what was in the foul stuff but it worked). She gave it up due to the cost. Insurance won't cover it and will not go to Reno for the same reason. My brother and I are trying to coax her into going at our expense. The one thing I do have her taking is Flur Essence. You can read about it on the net. It has made a big improvement already.

Best of Luck
-Vicki

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Nov 28, 2001 at 17:56:47 (EST)
From: Kelly
Email: karen@ringrose.org.uk
To: Vicki
Subject: Nevada clinic
Message:
My last post got chopped! Could you e-mail me the contact details,
I think I know it, but I may not.
Thanks
Kelly
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Nov 28, 2001 at 01:24:04 (EST)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: my best wishes and prayers for your husband
Message:
and my thanks for your bravery and advocacy re the Jagdeo issue
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 17:30:28 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: Hi Kelly.
Message:
Hi Kelly,

Good to hear from you again, but I'm sorry to hear about George's illness. I hope he makes a full recovery.

When things settle down, we'll have to organise another Baltic curry night. A Balkan balti perhaps.

Take care, best wishes to you and George.

Anth, on the edge, looking out to sea.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 13:36:57 (EST)
From: Tim G
Email: timgitti@indigo.ie
To: Kelly
Subject: Re: First anniversary posting
Message:
Hi Karen,
Good to hear from but very sorry to hear of your husband's illness. Such crises certainly put a very searching and, as you said, life enhancing focus on being alive. It is a bittersweet time and I recall my Dad telling me his first reaction on being told that he had terminal cancer: 'It is probably the most NORMAL thing in the whole world'.
I send you lots of warm thoughts and wish your husband a good fulfilment whichever way it transpires.
Ultimately we are at the gates of the unknown and I won't believe ANYONE who tells me different.....but then each day is the unknown too when I care to release it from my prejudices.

IF you are interested I have the phone number of a spiritual healer who lives in London.He specialises in cancer and other intractable cases as well as all other ailments. I have found him invaluable in learning to come to terms with a condition that I have and also he has healed, in a remarkable way, several friends. He heals over the phone and does not charge money. If your beloved or yourself are interested just Email me or we can talk on the phone.
I'm sure you will have many offers and for me the best is to choose the treatment or treatments that you intuitively respond to and put the others to one side.
Best Wishes
Tim

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 10:56:42 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: Hi Kelly !
Message:
I'm sorry for your husband's condition. That'll be a difficult time, and I'm glad you're out of rawatism.

Hope to see you for the next party in London or elsewhere ....

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 02:05:51 (EST)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: Thank You Kelly
Message:
I remember when I first posted here, it will be 1 year for me in about two weeks. You were one of the first to respond back to me in my early posts, you seemed so much wiser so much more aware of what was going on than I did at that time. Probably because I first posted as a premie apologist, but thanks to you and many others I quickly caught on.

I just want to personally Thank You for being here and helping me disentangle myself from the lies and myths that had dominated my life for so many years.

My heart goes out to you and your husband at this time facing the impending crisis of dealing with cancer. I wish you all of the Love, Hope, Strength and Courage possible to get through this.

Lots of love to you and yours, your presence has made a big diference here this past year, I look forward to many more years of support and inspiration together as exe's

Happy Anniversary
Brian

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 00:18:52 (EST)
From: Mercedes
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: Re: First anniversary posting
Message:
Hi Kelly,
Congratulations on being cult free!!! I am sorry about your husband's health and I congratulate you on your stength. Send you much love and hope.
Mercedes
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 21:10:27 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: Re: First anniversary posting
Message:
I'm so sorry to hear that, Kelly. Don't know what to say. I'm so sorry. I'd say 'if there's anything ....' but what can that really mean here? :(
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 20:31:10 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: Re: First anniversary posting
Message:
Kelly, I wish I could say that you and your hubby are in my prayers but I'm not sure what that means anymore. I hope and wish the best for you and I'm glad you're out of that silliness too.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:41:43 (EST)
From: Marianne
Email: MarianneDB@aol.com
To: Kelly
Subject: Kelly!
Message:
Hi sweetie. So sad to hear George got sent to the hospital. You have both been in my thoughts these last few months. I have missed hearing from and about you, but I know you need to devote yourself to taking care of George.

The cult appears to be self destructing, and much of it seems to be due to Captain Rawat's failure to deal responsibly with Abi. You had a hand in all that as well.

Take good care of yourself and George. I miss knowing you are just a short bit away from me!

Much love, Marianne

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 20:40:45 (EST)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Marianne!
Message:
Hi Marianne,
I've just had a frustrating time . I posted a long message to you but just couldn't get connected and I've lost it now.
So...I'll try again.
Love Kelly
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:32:43 (EST)
From: PatD
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: Happy Anniversary to you Kelly
Message:
I remember how I felt, exactly a year ago, when I pressed the submit button......….I was very nervous,The previous two weeks had also been an earth shattering experience, as I went through the awakening, the exiting process, as it dawned on me that, Omigod, I’m in a cult! I remember shaking as I read EPO. I remember how utterly horrified I was when I saw through it all.....

I felt the same myself a couple of months before you,but the nervousness about posting took a long time to wear off. Now I don't have much to say really, back then I was FURIOUS at Rawat. I guess I still am,but shouting gets tiring.

I don't know what to say about your husband, except that if there is any value in prayer,as I write this, he is for a moment in mine.

Pat Dorrity

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 22:12:02 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: PatD
Subject: Big hug Kelly
Message:
You sound determined, strong and full of the love that doesn't require techniques. I applaude your courage and wish you all the best for you and George.

A big hug from the upper left coast.
Richard

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:09:30 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: All the Best Kelly
Message:
My thoughts are with you. My brother died of lung cancer 5 years ago, and I was very glad there was no longer the 'knowledge' separation between us. In fact, I had talked he and his wife into receiving knowledge the 70s and it resulted in them splitting up for awhile. They left the cult long before I did, but there were some hard feelings, especially while I was still in and there was a wall of separation between us for awhile.

After I left the cult, we repaired all the damage, then it was no longer between us by the time he died. I got to spend a week with him during his treatment, and it was hard, but also wonderful.

I hope all goes well with you and your husband, and I hope both of you come through all this okay. And thanks for your comments regarding the support that's here.

Joe

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:08:03 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: Happy Anniversary...
Message:
Hi Kelly,

I cannot imagine what you are experiencing with George so ill. I've been close to a couple of people with cancer, but never my husband. I send you all the best thoughts to you both.

When I read your post I thought, shit, I never recorded the actual date of my exiting or posting here. I do remember the date of my ''knowledge session.'' I'll try the archives.

Again, thanks for your heartfelt post.

Be well,
Cynthia

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 02:32:45 (EST)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: I remember well the dates
Message:
Hi Cynthia

This is kinda funny, but then you see, I have a couple of serious memory jogs to remind me.

I received Knowledge Sept 27 1972, Sept 27th is my current wifes birthday, I first posted Dec 7th 2000, Dec 7th is Pearl Harbor Attack Day, ('a day which will go down in infamy' FDR) so the two dates stand out for me quite well.

My very first post (then as an apologist premie) "perimeter of choas" co-incidently made the best of forum not so much because of what I has to say at that time, more that the responses were right on. So it is easy to find out there in the archives to remind me of just how far I have come and when I started.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 18:56:45 (EST)
From: Gail
Email: gcmacdougall@yahoo.ca
To: Kelly
Subject: Re: First anniversary posting
Message:
Thanks for your post. I can only imagine what you and your family are going through. I wish you all the best in that regard. I am glad to hear that so many loving people are there to support you.

Congratulations on being cult-free for one year. It really is a big step and you deserve a big pat on the back.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 17:47:59 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: All
Subject: EV already being dismantled
Message:
Well, just speculation on my part, but consider the facts:-

John Macgregor and others have said that EV is in a state of chaos, with many resignations.

EV did not publicise or report on Maharaji's recent events on their website.

EV have removed the FAQ's and Press Releases from their website.

EV did not organise the recent events attended by Maharaji.

Now it's just Maharaji, and the premies, like he always wanted it.

But who's going to do any propagation?

John.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 18:19:57 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: It's (as usual) About MONEY
Message:
I think MacGregor said that donations are way down and people are calling in loans. So, they are getting rid of 'staff' both at Amaroo and Elan Vital. True, the EV website is being dismantled as part of the 'wind down' of that organization.

Recall that hate email I got from the anonymous person at Elan Vital a couple of weeks ago? I think that's the last gasp of that organization, probably an act of very undisciplined frustration.

I know what Pat said about the local communities raising money for M to come, but if 500 people paid $100 each to go to that thing, that's $50,000 and the program probably cost a few hundred dollars, plus M's 'expnses' I guess his plane fuel and landing costs. He landed at the airport, went a few blocks by limo to the 'event' and then split.

I would imagine a very large proporation of the $50,000 did NOT stay in the local premie community, it went to one of M's organizations, probably to try to forstall foreclosure on the Amaroo property. But then it might also be going to adding inlaid diamonds on his toilet on his yacht. Since all of this is secret, one never really knows for sure.

M doesn't have any intention of doing 'propagation' in the West. That is a dead issue.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 20:20:28 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: NONE of that money stays in the community
Message:
The local money is paid by cashier's check weeks before the event to the company that stages the events. I forgot the name. The gate fees are collected by that company - usually by phone regsitration/credit card also before the event. The new SmartCards will eventually contain the strip info for creedit/debit cards.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:27:29 (EST)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: It's (as usual) About MONEY
Message:
How about this for scraping the bottom of the barrel. E'mail received from EV entitled 'Cash windfall for Elan Vital'


---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---
--

national email: november 2001

Euro Cash Windfall Opportunity

Dear All

This is a one-off chance to make a financial contribution at NO (real) COST to you!

Do you have any European currency notes or small change rattling around in your drawers? Well now’s your chance to get rid of it and make a difference at the same time.

This is an opportunity to benefit the Propagation Fund from virtually nothing and it’s so simple it’s a joy.

In February 2002, the national currencies of most EEC countries cease to be legal tender, as they are replaced by the Euro in those countries.

Over the years most of us will have accumulated small amounts of currencies from some of those countries that will be rendered worthless in February.

HOWEVER, as a charity, Elan Vital can exchange coins as well as notes and receive the £ Sterling equivalent as long as we do it before 31 December. Any money received in January can be sent to Elan Vital in the appropriate country to exchange, for instance Italy or Spain.

It is estimated that there may be as much as $ 20,000 to be gained in this way across Europe and this is an opportunity to maximise this potential.

So get digging through your drawers and find that little box or tin or wherever you keep those few Francs and Lire and get ready to bring them to a collecting point.

Collecting boxes for this limited-life currency will be set up at every hall Broadcast event between now and the end of December.

PLEASE make an effort to get it together and take your bits there. If you don’t, you’ll be kicking yourself when it’s too late – I know I would be!

Please let everyone (with Knowledge or Aspirant) know about this once-off chance. Perhaps, if you don’t usually go to hall satellite events you could group your cash together with others who live nearby and have one person take it there. Also, any money can be sent direct to the Hove office.

Elan Vital:
P O Box 999, Hove
East Sussex BN3 3HZ

The currencies in question are:

French Francs
German Marks
Spanish Pesetas
Italian Lira
Dutch Guilders
Austrian Schillings
Finnish Markka
Irish Punts
Belgian Francs
Portuguese Escudos

Thanks and happy digging,

The Elan Vital UK Resources Team


---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---
--

Powered by List Builder
Click here to change or remove your subscription

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 06:08:48 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: reduced to SPange-ing
Message:
in los angeles the homeless call it spange-ing--a contraction of spare-change-ing. brother ca you spare a dime?.
ths has gotta be the lowest, most pathetic, scroungiest plea i ever saw.
wow.
why not send people door to door throughout europe, pitching the same thin cry, clad in tatters and rags in the winter gale?
why it's pure Dickens!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 21:48:06 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: He he he, yes, this is, ahem, rich(?)
Message:
That's stupendous. Sometimes I wish I was still in the cult just so I could enjoy all this stuff from the inside instead of second-hand like this. I guess that's why I never kick out Jehovah's Witnesses or Mormons either. It's all kind of fun, isn't it?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 22:54:55 (EST)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jim!.....
Message:
I think if a Jo-hove even stuck his head in your place, he'd think you were the devil himself!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 20:47:27 (EST)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: *******If you want a laugh******
Message:
Don't miss this opportunity, check the above e-mailing from Elan Vital
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:31:59 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: Talk about desperate!!!
Message:
Love it, Karen! Sorry to hear about your husband. Anyway, how are the trees?

John.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:45:02 (EST)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Treetalk
Message:
Nice to hear from you, I'm really worried about the trees though. Their leaves have been turning brown and worse than that, they have been falling off!! Any tips?

Worried of Wales

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:59:48 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: Wrong trees
Message:
Try Pine, Fir, or Spruce. They are less susceptible to this condition. I've been a bit worried about mine - they fall over when it gets a bit windy and cut off our electricity for six day:-)

John.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:43:27 (EST)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Agreed, John
Message:
Next they'll be asking for the contents of kids' piggy banks.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 10:56:46 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Marianne, I think that's implied...
Message:
About the kid's piggy banks....
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 18:06:27 (EST)
From: Francesca :)
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Whoa John!
Message:
I think the local premies putting on the large and small local programs, rather than EV, has been going on for quite some time, since the mid 80's, in fact. For example in the SF Bay and beyond, I remember the Pacific Resources entity.

What the deal is, as Pat C explained the other day, is that the locals were told that 'the speaker' will only come if they have the resources to put on the program (thus Pacific 'Resources' haha). They were told this in the mid-80s. So basically, the locals pay for everything, the hall, M and his entourage's transporation, lodging, food, and probably miscellaneous related expenses.

I don't believe the locals get any profit from the program. The take at the door, or at least the lion's share of it, is 'the speaker's fee,' or something like that. So the fact that the locals put on the program is not a sign of EV collapse, although one does have to wonder what the rest of the information that you reported means.

It's been a while with the website, press pack and info. But I don't know if they get any substantive press inquiries. I might not be off the mark when I say that the only people who care about M, his org, and what he says and does, are premies, expremies, and parents of those who were abused sexually, or who gave away their inheritances or trust funds to a fraud.

--f

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:04:15 (EST)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Kitty
Subject: Re: Get your 'quotes' right
Message:
you pompously use 'the fact is' and other high handed statements so maybe you should get your 'facts' right if you want to sound so informed

there is no 'speakers fee'

fact


---

The only place the word fact appears in the above post is in this context:
So the fact that the locals put on the program is not a sign of EV collapse, although one does have to wonder what the rest of the information that you reported means.

So Kitty CAT, get your quotes right. And quit being so insulting, it doesn't become you.

--f

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 18:57:08 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Kitty
Subject: There's no ''Speaker's'' Fee.. But Expenses...
Message:
Hello Kitty,

How are you today? I think you're correct in that Maharaji doesn't receive speaker's fee. However, if I remember correctly, Elan Vital has consistently paid for Maharaji's accommodation and travel expenses.

How those expenses are calculated and distributed to Maharaji is probably very confidential.

Good to hear from you. Don't be mad. We're just regular people trying to figure things out.

Best,
Cynthia

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 18:59:39 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: FA ON DUTY....please...
Message:
Is Kitty a new persona of CW? Just wondering....
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:07:19 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Re: FA ON DUTY....please...
Message:
Is Kitty a new persona of CW? Just wondering....


---

That's a likely guess. Understand these critters know how to hide their tracks and some of 'em are as slippery as greased hogs on the Fourth of July.

Besides, them's pat's duties, trackin varmits. I just bake the biscuits.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 19:05:19 (EST)
From: Francesca ~)
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: TROLL altert? I wonder too. [nt]
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 20:14:09 (EST)
From: The Exterminator
Email: None
To: Francesca ~)
Subject: TROLL
Message:
It was tim et al the latest multi-alias troll. I warned him. Post deleted. IP blocked.
:C)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 21:49:30 (EST)
From: Troll
Email: None
To: The Exterminator
Subject: IP blocked? Sure!!
Message:
blocked from what? Your pathetic Ghengis Khan fantasies?

the only thing blocked Patsie, is the flow of truthful, coherant information from your brain to your mouth

you incompetant goose

now you'll have to delete this - the humiliation would be too much to bear

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 22:58:31 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Troll
Subject: Well, I tried but fanatics like you...
Message:
.....will always find a way to weasel in where you are not welcome.

I used to be a catholic then I saw through the BS and left. Since then I have written and published and spoken out against the RC church for the past 35 years. In all that time the only arguments made against me by members of that church have been conducted respectfully without resorting to insults and intimidation. Yes, they get upset when I mock the pope but they still behave themselves and resist making Cacroach style ad hominems.

I wonder why? No I don't. That's the difference between democratic people who belong to a church which they know is not universally loved and a truly mind-warping and anti-social cult like you are in. I hope you realize that sane people will see that. Oh, sorry, I forgot only PWKs are sane. The rest of the world is mentally defective.

I'm sorry to say it but I think you must be deranged.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 00:12:24 (EST)
From: CW
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Get your facts straight Bumface
Message:
Listen Patrick I did not author what is above. Just clarifying for anyone you may confuse. I have tosay though ,you are reallystarting to push the envelope.
Why dont you back down a little. You seem to think that the whole known Universe replicates your taste.You would be wrong there Pat. Now try to not make me get all unreasonable and sassy.I might just bite.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 11:55:18 (EST)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: CW
Subject: Characteristic sign-off from CW.
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Nov 27, 2001 at 11:48:04 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: Bye Bye, Cat
Message:
I take it you can't post now, huh? Too bad. You were such a wonderful person to communicate with over the years. Such a strong, courageous and intelligent voice of wisdom and compassion! I'm going to miss you, Cat. You were a complete and utter waste of time and it's not every day I meet one.

Take care, huh?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 18:31:38 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Kitty
Subject: Explain it then
Message:
If there is no speaker's fee, how does Maharaji get paid? There must be some mechanism. After all we all get paid for our work and expertise. How IS maharaji remunerated?
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 18:30:45 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Kitty
Subject: So?
Message:
No 'speakers fee.' What the hell does that mean? One thing it doesn't mean is that M wasn't doing fundraising for whatever it is he wants to spend it on, all of which is a secret, even from the people who paid $100 for a 2-hour 'event.'
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 18:37:05 (EST)
From: New Age Redneck
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Haven't you heard?
Message:
Joe, Joe, Joe.... M is a filan.... pilan.... philanthropist, yeah that's it... Philanthropist..... or was it misanthrope? I can never get it straight.



Copyright 1997 Paradise Web Enahancements


All Rights Reserved

Return to Index -:- Top of Index