Ex-Premie Forum 7 Archive
From: Nov 29, 2001 To: Dec 05, 2001 Page: 4 of: 5


Announcement -:- New changes in Knowledge,2002 -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 16:50:37 (EST)
__ SULLA -:- Re: New changes in Knowledge,2002 -:- Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 20:07:45 (EST)
__ Nigel -:- HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! -:- Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 17:54:50 (EST)
__ Totally Absurd or Completely True -:- says a lot about M's World [nt] -:- Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 15:19:44 (EST)
__ Vicki -:- Jean Marie new PR tactics???????? -:- Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 14:02:36 (EST)
__ __ PatC -:- Mettle detector? -:- Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 14:56:19 (EST)
__ __ __ Vicki -:- Oops! (nt) -:- Mon, Dec 03, 2001 at 06:32:54 (EST)
__ Cynthia -:- Load of Crap.... -:- Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 11:42:23 (EST)
__ AJW -:- Oh No, Not Another New Beginning. -:- Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 08:29:34 (EST)
__ peg -:- Re: New changes in Knowledge,2002 -:- Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 07:08:12 (EST)
__ __ don -:- may your wish come true -:- Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 08:40:05 (EST)
__ Brian Smith -:- Another load of Troll Dung -:- Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 03:24:20 (EST)
__ __ Jim -:- OK, I'm gullible, but, well, can I say something? -:- Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 14:14:50 (EST)
__ __ __ Brian Smith -:- He who hesitates is lost, except -:- Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 16:42:45 (EST)
__ __ PatC -:- I love it when you talk dirty, Brian -:- Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 03:38:54 (EST)
__ don -:- is this love or just a confusion? -:- Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 03:09:22 (EST)
__ __ don -:- Re: is this love or just a confusion? -:- Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 03:29:51 (EST)
__ __ dom -:- Re: is this love or just a confusion? -:- Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 03:28:35 (EST)
__ Abi -:- total bollocks of course nt -:- Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 01:23:17 (EST)
__ Carl -:- After alll, he's made (or stolen) his bundle, -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 20:59:28 (EST)
__ Joe -:- Oh Please -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 20:59:09 (EST)
__ Eddie are you Kiddin?? -:- Hear it first right here!! -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 20:12:34 (EST)
__ __ Daryl Kerrigan -:- Re: Hear it first right here!! -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 20:32:36 (EST)
__ __ __ dazza holden -:- Re: Hear it first right here!! -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 20:42:12 (EST)
__ __ Kerrigan -:- Re: Hear it first right here!! -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 20:20:54 (EST)
__ Sherlock Bones -:- Dermot has way too 'spare' time -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 19:45:36 (EST)
__ __ Moley -:- Dermot - it wasn't you was it ????nt -:- Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 18:56:38 (EST)
__ Joe -:- Come on guys.... -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 19:11:56 (EST)
__ __ janet -:- remember J_M Bonthhaus took over PR. -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 19:23:25 (EST)
__ __ __ Joe -:- Not Really -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 20:42:04 (EST)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Good point (but aren't you blocked?) -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 19:28:19 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Jim, a question... -:- Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 12:12:57 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Cynth, you DID miss something -:- Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 14:20:09 (EST)
__ __ __ __ janet -:- parently not. here i am -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 19:53:22 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Ahoy there Janet. (censored) -:- Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 15:37:44 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- butting in (sorry) -:- Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 17:18:18 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Point taken Selene. -:- Tues, Dec 04, 2001 at 15:55:08 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Did somebody say, 'banned'? -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 23:38:12 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- Janet, I'm glad you're still here -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 21:19:58 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- What planet are you on? -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 19:59:36 (EST)
__ Jerry -:- I think this is bullshit -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 19:09:11 (EST)
__ __ Joe -:- It would be great if it was true -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 19:13:50 (EST)
__ __ __ Jerry -:- Maybe it is -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 20:30:38 (EST)
__ Joe -:- Sadly, this is an obvious fake. -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 19:05:25 (EST)
__ __ Jim -:- Joe, you better edit that fast! -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 19:21:13 (EST)
__ __ __ Joe -:- That's embarrasing, Jim -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 20:39:38 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Hey, Joe, let's face it -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 20:54:54 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- I think it is written by... -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 23:39:42 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Check out SC on LG -:- Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 11:44:53 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Brian Smith -:- Premies have Exe's to Thank -:- Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 04:11:52 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim S. -:- M and Satpal=Corpulent Merger? nt -:- Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 11:33:24 (EST)
__ PatC -:- That's great! -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 18:44:02 (EST)
__ Jim S. -:- Is this for real, or a goof? nt -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 18:39:51 (EST)
__ __ IP tracker -:- It can be traced as far as.... -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 18:43:30 (EST)
__ __ __ Tonette -:- I thought it might be Nigel and Moley.. -:- Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 02:28:16 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Moley -:- No - but it's bollocks IMO -:- Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 18:52:10 (EST)
__ such -:- another new spin-scam or joke! -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 18:10:34 (EST)
__ Jim -:- Is this for real? If so, I'm speechless -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 18:05:48 (EST)
__ __ Jim S. -:- Good analysis, Jim. And if it is true... -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 18:53:55 (EST)
__ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- Premies thinking for themselves? Ha! [nt] -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 23:18:11 (EST)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Yeah, if I were a betting man ..... -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 19:02:30 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Joe -:- You can bet me..... -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 19:14:48 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ suchabanana -:- maybe a premie pipe dream -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 20:27:32 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Re: maybe a premie pipe dream -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 20:37:55 (EST)
__ Marianne -:- What about Jagdeo?? -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 17:44:00 (EST)
__ __ Moley -:- Right on Marianne ! xx nt -:- Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 18:58:05 (EST)
__ __ Deborah -:- Hear ye, hear ye... -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 17:52:18 (EST)
__ __ __ gofer -:- we hear you -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 20:32:08 (EST)
__ __ bill -:- Re: What about Jagdeo? -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 17:47:41 (EST)
__ __ __ Cynthia....Bill did -:- you get my email?...(NT) -:- Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 12:30:47 (EST)
__ __ __ __ bill -:- Re: you get my email?...(NT) -:- Tues, Dec 04, 2001 at 01:14:05 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Email is not going through -:- Tues, Dec 04, 2001 at 01:19:59 (EST)
__ bill-archive note of interest -:- How EPO and the forums began. -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 17:37:17 (EST)
__ Selene -:- it all sounds familiar -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 17:32:02 (EST)

gerry -:- It (OT) -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 12:47:40 (EST)
__ Peg -:- Re: It (OT) -:- Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 04:28:20 (EST)

gerry -:- J-M, do you know this person? -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 12:45:29 (EST)
__ Ben Lurking -:- Re: J-M, do you know this person? -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 14:50:48 (EST)
__ Nick -:- Re: Yves Argant -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 13:52:23 (EST)
__ __ Jean-Michel -:- Y and Danielle Argant -:- Mon, Dec 03, 2001 at 03:52:21 (EST)

cq -:- If George could write his own obituary? -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 09:39:58 (EST)
__ bill -:- Inscense is cancer causeing also. [nt] -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 17:45:36 (EST)
__ __ such -:- LSMFT + incense and peppermints... [nt] -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 23:10:11 (EST)

Sir Dave -:- Well Olivia -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 00:40:22 (EST)
__ Joe -:- The Sitar on 'Norwegian Wood' -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 00:52:39 (EST)
__ __ berni -:- Camberwell Carrots -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 11:49:51 (EST)

Ben Lurking -:- Just Wondering -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 00:35:59 (EST)

Deborah -:- Janet: A post from Carlos from AG -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 00:20:43 (EST)
__ janet -:- tell carlos this 4 me -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 09:20:31 (EST)
__ __ Deborah -:- Very nice post, Janet [nt] -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 17:47:08 (EST)
__ __ __ dh -:- Re: Very nice post? -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 20:44:26 (EST)
__ __ __ __ janet -:- its not me. glitch it seems. -:- Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 05:02:00 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Carlos -:- dh, she normally does gramatical -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 21:06:41 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ janet -:- its the software. -:- Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 05:04:30 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ JohnT -:- I always read you Janet -:- Mon, Dec 03, 2001 at 12:25:05 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- This is for you Carlos -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 21:09:04 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Saw this first on AG. -:- Dug it both places. NT [nt] -:- Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 04:41:50 (EST)

Jim -:- Confronting M: Any Volunteers? -:- Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 22:40:28 (EST)
__ Tonette -:- I would do it in a second! -:- Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 03:33:20 (EST)
__ __ Jerry -:- What would you say? -:- Mon, Dec 03, 2001 at 16:53:02 (EST)
__ __ __ Tonette -:- I wish I had longer for this reply -:- Tues, Dec 04, 2001 at 05:11:32 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Re: I wish I had longer for this reply -:- Tues, Dec 04, 2001 at 17:06:00 (EST)
__ __ __ __ PatC -:- I prefer the second question;) [nt] -:- Tues, Dec 04, 2001 at 05:18:52 (EST)
__ __ Baren -:- would but WON'T -:- Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 22:50:49 (EST)
__ __ __ Tonette -:- I beg to differ -:- Mon, Dec 03, 2001 at 01:47:21 (EST)
__ Jerry -:- Not me -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 17:05:59 (EST)
__ such -:- metal detectors: -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 14:45:10 (EST)
__ bill -:- Re: Confronting M: Any Volunteers? -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 10:11:59 (EST)
__ __ bill -:- Re: Confronting M: Any Volunteers? -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 17:50:14 (EST)
__ Deborah -:- Attending programs is a self-imposed limitation -:- Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 23:58:43 (EST)
__ __ __ Q -:- Re: Confronting M: Any Volunteers? -:- Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 23:54:02 (EST)

Jim -:- -:- Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 22:02:13 (EST)

Joe -:- Summary: San Francisco 'Appointment' -:- Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 17:01:21 (EST)
__ Tonette -:- Interesting....He's up to something -:- Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 03:38:19 (EST)
__ Deborah -:- No! That's not a cult }) [nt] -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 18:01:14 (EST)
__ Cynthia -:- Jeezum Crow!...$$$$ -:- Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 23:53:03 (EST)
__ Jim -:- Thanks lots -:- Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 21:54:47 (EST)
__ such -:- SF: bhakti massa/doggy slave bliss! -:- Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 19:30:02 (EST)
__ Ben Lurking -:- Re: Summary: San Francisco 'Appointment' -:- Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 17:09:20 (EST)

Marianne -:- Thanks Julian - CAC effects update -:- Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 15:41:40 (EST)
__ bill -:- Doing that in reverse is one of my actions. [nt] -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 10:17:14 (EST)
__ John McG -:- Marianne, maybe we can... -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 03:36:03 (EST)

Joe -:- DONATIONS/DARSHAN/MORE -:- Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 15:03:49 (EST)
__ such -:- for $100 [cash only],u kin kiss ma feet! -:- Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 19:12:34 (EST)
__ __ salsa -:- Re: for $100 [cash only],u kin kiss ma feet! -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 07:57:52 (EST)
__ __ __ such -:- ok, but just the right foot -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 14:18:48 (EST)
__ Brian Smith -:- There are no real expenses -:- Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 16:57:29 (EST)
__ Deborah -:- Tell the IRS about the 6.3 million -:- Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 16:14:16 (EST)
__ Roger eDrek -:- Because he's got a big nut -:- Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 15:32:50 (EST)
__ __ Lesley -:- That sounds like a recipe for bankruptcy -:- Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 23:29:40 (EST)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Re: Because he's got a big nut -:- Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 16:08:01 (EST)
__ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- Re: Because he's got a big nut -:- Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 16:20:50 (EST)

Be There Then -:- Event in Los Angeles Today -:- Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 14:49:19 (EST)
__ richmandrake -:- If anyone wants to go.. -:- Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 18:06:14 (EST)
__ Joe -:- Add another $50K to M's pockets (nt) -:- Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 15:07:54 (EST)
__ __ Ben Lurking -:- Re: Add another $50K to M's pockets (nt) -:- Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 16:06:58 (EST)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- And his travel and accommodations... -:- Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 16:10:30 (EST)
__ __ __ __ janet -:- correction: -:- Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 09:32:18 (EST)


Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 16:50:37 (EST)
From: Announcement
Email: None
To: All
Subject: New changes in Knowledge,2002
Message:
This announcement to be made locally, and it is presented to EPO for those people who obtain information there.
*
As Maharaji has confirmed during the recent tour, there are many changes going to happen with the practice of Knowledge this next year. Basically: less organization, more heart.

The need for the changes has arisen because of two major concerns:

1. Elan Vital has become unpopular and ineffective. Elan Vital was nothing more than an attempt to organize something that defies organization, which creats a lot of tension.

2. Video and Satellite feeds lack that essential 'live' feeling. Attendance has been down. Broadcasts by television should be secondary to a more direct exchange between teacher and student.
-
Maharaji has worked hard throughout the years to banish unnecessary complications to the practice of Knowledge. And there is more work needed. Cultish aspects must go. The flow of the experience is the primary focus. As such, question and answer session on the topic of enlightenment, to give one example, will always be of little value. In an effort to rid the practice of Knowledge of all things superfluous, the following changes will occur:

1.Middlemen
Mahatmas, initiators, instructors, part-time instuctors, community coordinators, contact persons, presidents, and all current hierarchical positions will be terminated. Service is an equalizer of persons.

2. Secrecy
There will be no more secret 'Training Sessions.' There will be no more 'behind-the-scenes' activity that some PWK are allowed to know about and others not. Secrecy is for cults. The experience of Knowledge demands openness, honesty, and full disclosure. The only thing that is required is the free flow of that experience.

3. More direct contact between teacher and student, again for the free flow of that experience.

4. Expences and donations
Far less donations from students will be required. The experience of Knowledge is free. Organization is the costly factor. With less organization, only essential costs will need to be covered. Several holdings and much personal property will be sold off. Gatherings will be simpler.

5. The four techniques
The inner experience cannot be defined by, approached, nor narrowly confined to the four techniques. Connecting to one's own heart is a sacred act. It requires humility, silence, sincerity, but it does not require any particularly prescribed practices. The techniques are suggestions only, and the methods that the student finds most effective should be used.

6.The carrot stick of enlightenment
Human beings do not require the light of a thousand suns to be fulfilled. Our needs are simpler. Acceptance and love are the necessary components. Knowledge is not a way to become perfect. It should not be goal oriented in any way. It is a way to accept and love life as it is.

7. The living Master
The grace of God flows to all beings directly and it is a mistake to define its source in one person only. Maharaji should not be regarded as different or superior to other human beings. He does not experience, or require any experience, other than the humility and love for the higher power that we are all capable of. Notions about messiah, savior, perfectness, and uniqueness of purpose or position should be abandoned. Knowledge is already within each person and should be/must be shared by all people. The exclusiveness of cults derives from the false claims of the unique divinity of any one person. Such cults will always divide people. Knowledge is universal and everything that prevents its universal appeal is a false concept.

8. To honor the memory of Shri Hans, a re-establishment of harmonious bonds between Maharaji and his family of origin will become a goal. The results of this effort is, of course, unknown at this time. The initiation of this effort occurred at the Hans Jayanti program held by Satpal in New Delhi last month.

With best wishes for ALL people who have received Knowledge. This announcement may be circulated.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 20:07:45 (EST)
From: SULLA
Email: None
To: Announcement
Subject: Re: New changes in Knowledge,2002
Message:
Come on! I think this is just a good joke. A sarcastic one about M. accepting all the charges against him, but trying as his last resort to be in good terms with everybody, giving the knowledge away without apparent imposition of his personality but always keeping and more close the relationship between teacher and students. Until he can run away with all the money.
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Date: Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 17:54:50 (EST)
From: Nigel
Email: NIGE@REDCROW.DEMON.CO.UK
To: Announcement
Subject: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
Message:
The exclusiveness of cults derives from the false claims of the unique divinity of any one person.

Nice try. Cute!

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Date: Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 15:19:44 (EST)
From: Totally Absurd or Completely True
Email: None
To: Announcement
Subject: says a lot about M's World [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 14:02:36 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: Announcement
Subject: Jean Marie new PR tactics????????
Message:
Is this a joke? If it isn't, then Maharaji might do well to invite the Exe's to an event, just him and them. He can put us through a mettle detector. If he really, truly, ever cared for human beings as he claims, and for their opportunity for self-fulfilment, then he would invite us for a small, intimate gathering. If he truly, ever cared....
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Date: Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 14:56:19 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: Mettle detector?
Message:
Hi Vicki, your typo was delicious. You said: ''He can put us through a mettle detector.''

I think exes would all trigger the alarm but premies would sail through. They don't have much mettle.

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Date: Mon, Dec 03, 2001 at 06:32:54 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Oops! (nt)
Message:
Very tired, should not be on the computer!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 11:42:23 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Announcement
Subject: Load of Crap....
Message:
This is a hoax. All of the items are transparent, poorly written, especially this one:

Secrecy
There will be no more secret 'Training Sessions.' There will be no more 'behind-the-scenes' activity that some PWK are allowed to know about and others not. Secrecy is for cults. The experience of knowledge demands openness, honesty, and full disclosure. The only thing that is required is the free flow of that experience.

This is the most telling part of this obviously fake post. When has Maharaji not been into secrecy? He would never admit he is surrounded by premies who keep mum about his life--and could not continue his lifestyle (especially with Monica) without secrecy.

This post is written for us, it's either a joke, a hoax, a troll--whatever. Meanwhile, up above, there's Abi, whose father has written something on the PR page on EV-Australia.

That's no hoax, it's right there on the official EV page. Yup Maharaji is the new Maharaji is the new Maharaji is the new Maharaji. No more behind the scenes secrecy?

Well, then I ask: Why no section on JAGDEO for bloody christ's sake!

I won't post anything more on this thread--waste o time...

Cynthia

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Date: Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 08:29:34 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Announcement
Subject: Oh No, Not Another New Beginning.
Message:
Hi,

Looks like the 'Fresh Leaf' is being turned over yet again. There's one of these 'fresh starts' every year or so, when 'At last we're dealing with all those nasty little things that have been holding us back all these years.'

Christ, there's been so many of them. I'll dip in the pot and pull a couple out- The Captain moves West. The Indian clothes go. The Ashrams open. The Ashrams close. Western Mahatmas. WWA. DUO. Knowledge reviews. Workshops. Different Knowledge Reviews. Satsang in the community. End of Satsang in the community. Return of Devotion (we're due another of these soon), Videos instead of 'satsang'. The Captain gives knowledge personally.

On and on it goes. But at the centre, nothing changes. Those close know he is the true master and this is all his game.

One thing this latest press release to bring in the Golden Age shows us, is that there's trouble in Heaven. Trying to fix the mess the Captain and his cult are in will take more than the annual coat of paint.

The cult is falling apart around his ears, as more premies find out what he's up to, and realise, indeed the Emporer is naked.

Expressions like, 'Closing the stable door after the horse has bolted,' and 'fiddling while Rome burns' come to mind.

I wonder if he's going to tell all his followers in India that he's not the Perfect Master any more.

'Far less donations will be required', that really is a laugh. Does he really want the sheep to cancel their bankers orders? I think not. Who's going to pay for his cognac? Unless of course the business plan for his Luxury Used Car Mart covers everything.

It's too late Captain. The boat that was going to carry us over the ocean of Death is still tied up and rotting on the mud. Giving the crew new uniforms and painting the decks won't get it afloat.

Anth, I think we're entering the final act of 'The Captain's Follies'.

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Date: Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 07:08:12 (EST)
From: peg
Email: None
To: Announcement
Subject: Re: New changes in Knowledge,2002
Message:
That would be a start. I wish!

Peg

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Date: Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 08:40:05 (EST)
From: don
Email: None
To: peg
Subject: may your wish come true
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 03:24:20 (EST)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Announcement
Subject: Another load of Troll Dung
Message:
Dumped on the forum to see how many out here would buy into it, that's my take anyway.

M is not saying anything of the sort in his intimate appointments as represented by this anonymous announcer. All of the first hand reports we have received here thusfar indicate that he is repeating the same vacuous drivel as always.

Then of course the blubbering session begins, no questions allowed, but frothing, fawning and groveling is encouraged.

Whoever posted this seems to think that we are entirely gullible and easily influenced by arbitary off the wall heresay information. I suspect that this was deposited by someone who still believes that he has an intimate appointment with the incarnation of God.

I am sure he is waiting for God in human form to be appearing soon in a secret location, in his city soon. And I'll betcha This person probably thinks he is one of the chosen children of God, talk about gullible and naive.

So Mr. anonymous announcer until you have a real name and verifiable identity and you offer documented evidence from a reliable source to back up your story, the information you posted is about as significant as a pile of dung beetle shit.

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Date: Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 14:14:50 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Brian Smith
Subject: OK, I'm gullible, but, well, can I say something?
Message:
Yes, yes, yes, a day later I feel pretty, damn dumb for falling for this. But don't forget, when I first saw the post, 1) I was just waking up; 2) an extra day's gone by with which we can see that there are, in fact, no similar or confirming messages anywhere on any of the cult's pages; and 3) why do you need a '3'? Weren't the first two good enough?

I must say, though, that although the hoax could have been done better, it also could have been done worse. I understand that the premies on LG didn't know what to think either. That in itself speaks volumes. In fact, if you really think about it, any premie who wouldn't summarily reject the 'announcement' as irrelevant and downright blasphemous is now caught in a bit of a trap. How could they even begin to take the post seriously if they didn't think there was plausibility behind each 'improvement'? And how could they think that if they didn't see the alleged problems to begin with? In fact, this kind of fake announcement could be the very thing the cult itself could foist on its own members as some sort of loyalty litmus test. Any who even pause for a second fail.

So who paused?

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Date: Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 16:42:45 (EST)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: He who hesitates is lost, except
Message:
when it comes to anonymous official sounding information about the cult then I hestitate and take pause. Anyway, there is not much to be gained by improved conditions or changes within the cult, afterall, it will still be a cult.

I am learning to call my shots better when it comes to troll posts and to take this anonymous shit with a grain of salt until it can be verified and proven otherwise. I hesitate to take frivilous anonymous posts seriously.

I don't think we should hestitate in providing immediate assistance when someone is trying to make a legitimate effort to get out of the cult. I for one am not hesitating when it comes to my own exit, and I highly recommend for anyone else to run like hell as fast as they can from the cult, no hesitation.

The hooks here are completely understandable Jim, this particular one was in part believable, It was a pretty good effort as far as hoax's go. Like you say it even spilled over onto the other side and had the premies wondering.

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Date: Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 03:38:54 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Brian Smith
Subject: I love it when you talk dirty, Brian
Message:
This may have been posted by a cult apologist or sincere church-lady who still thinks Rawat's great and is doing some wishful thinking.
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Date: Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 03:09:22 (EST)
From: don
Email: None
To: Announcement
Subject: is this love or just a confusion?
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 03:29:51 (EST)
From: don
Email: None
To: don
Subject: Re: is this love or just a confusion?
Message:
password no longer needed?looks like...good idea
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Date: Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 03:28:35 (EST)
From: dom
Email: None
To: don
Subject: Re: is this love or just a confusion?
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 01:23:17 (EST)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: Announcement
Subject: total bollocks of course nt
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 20:59:28 (EST)
From: Carl
Email: None
To: Announcement
Subject: After alll, he's made (or stolen) his bundle,
Message:
Now he can lower the overhead and support himself and his family and his reduced entourage on the interest. Life of Riley now. Let Satpal take over all the headaches. Tag team teachers.

Just kidding. Who knows? Very funny hoax post.
C.

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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 20:59:09 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Announcement
Subject: Oh Please
Message:
Elan Vital has become unpopular and ineffective. Elan Vital was nothing more than an attempt to organize something that defies organization, which creats a lot of tension.

As if Elan Vital ever did anyting anyway. What, is M now going to have nothing to hide behind? Get real.
Video and Satellite feeds lack that essential 'live' feeling. Attendance has been down. Broadcasts by television should be secondary to a more direct exchange between teacher and student.

Does one really believe M will trash what he has been hyping for the past years? No way. Like everything else that doesn't work that he proposes, he will let it die a horrible, starvation death, and then blame others for the failure.
-
Cultish aspects must go.

'Cultish?' Hello? Like what, darshan, maybe, that M has REVIVED with a vengence or late?

The flow of the experience is the primary focus. As such, question and answer session on the topic of enlightenment, to give one example, will always be of little value.

This is a transparent reference to how we all jumped all over M for his response to the 'do you meditate' question.

Mahatmas, initiators, instructors, part-time instuctors, community coordinators, contact persons, presidents, and all current hierarchical positions will be terminated. Service is an equalizer of persons.

Please, there have not been Mahatmas or community coordinators for years, and Maharaji hasn't used the word 'service' for years either. It's 'participation' now.

There will be no more secret 'Training Sessions.' There will be no more 'behind-the-scenes' activity that some PWK are allowed to know about and others not.

Do you really think M would ever admit this actually goes on? Do you think he would talk about 'secret training sessions?' Jesus Christ.

Secrecy is for cults.

There is that 'cult' admission again. Over his dead body would M ever admit that.

More direct contact between teacher and student, again for the free flow of that experience.

I thought he just told the prems that now it's time for mememe, not themthemthem.

Far less donations from students will be required.

SOSOSOSOSO ridiculous that I can't even begin to respond.

Organization is the costly factor. With less organization, only essential costs will need to be covered. Several holdings and much personal property will be sold off. Gatherings will be simpler.

This is the only one that actually is pretty possible. They will have to sell Amaroo, maybe, but THE COSTLY FACTOR is M's lifestyle, not the 'organization.' That's very small by comparison.

The inner experience cannot be defined by, approached, nor narrowly confined to the four techniques. Connecting to one's own heart is a sacred act. It requires humility, silence, sincerity, but it does not require any particularly prescribed practices. The techniques are suggestions only, and the methods that the student finds most effective should be used.

Would Shri Hans roll over in his grave? This is so funny.

The carrot stick of enlightenment...etc.

M hasn't talked about enlightenment, nor a thousand suns for YEARS.

7. The living Master

You mean as opposed to the dead one?

?The grace of God flows to all beings directly and it is a mistake to define its source in one person only.

NEVER in a million years would M say this. It means admitting he's been a fraud for 40 years.

The exclusiveness of cults derives from the false claims of the unique divinity of any one person. Such cults will always divide people. Knowledge is universal and everything that prevents its universal appeal is a false concept.

So funny, admitting he is leading a cult. Hysterical.

To honor the memory of Shri Hans, a re-establishment of harmonious bonds between Maharaji and his family of origin will become a goal. The results of this effort is, of course, unknown at this time. The initiation of this effort occurred at the Hans Jayanti program held by Satpal in New Delhi last month.

Well, since M is already proclaiming himself as just a guy doing nothin special, that means he's offering a garage sale to Sat Pal. Think that's a possibility?

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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 20:12:34 (EST)
From: Eddie are you Kiddin??
Email: None
To: Announcement
Subject: Hear it first right here!!
Message:
Plaeeeze!!Looksd like something Spielberg(Or Magregor) might dream up.
How gullible do you think we are?
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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 20:32:36 (EST)
From: Daryl Kerrigan
Email: None
To: Eddie are you Kiddin??
Subject: Re: Hear it first right here!!
Message:
Must be 'dreamin'. Where did they get that.The Trading Post.....
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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 20:42:12 (EST)
From: dazza holden
Email: None
To: Daryl Kerrigan
Subject: Re: Hear it first right here!!
Message:
naw, it wuz that Private Eye mob again

betya!!

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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 20:20:54 (EST)
From: Kerrigan
Email: None
To: Eddie are you Kiddin??
Subject: Re: Hear it first right here!!
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 19:45:36 (EST)
From: Sherlock Bones
Email: None
To: Announcement
Subject: Dermot has way too 'spare' time
Message:
idiots
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Date: Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 18:56:38 (EST)
From: Moley
Email: None
To: Sherlock Bones
Subject: Dermot - it wasn't you was it ????nt
Message:
xx
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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 19:11:56 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Announcement
Subject: Come on guys....
Message:
Cultish aspects must go. This, and the other use of the term 'cult' throughout that statement is telling. Maharaji's huge ego would NEVER let him admit he was running a cult.

Reconcile with Sat Pal? Get real. Who comes out on top? It it ain't M he ain't doin it.

I am shocked any of you people took anything in this seriously.

It also isn't written in Maharaji-cult-speak. It's way, too straightforward and honest. Also characteristics Mahararji lacks almost entirely.

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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 19:23:25 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: remember J_M Bonthhaus took over PR.
Message:
wait for it. When a new PR honcho takes over, anything can hapen.
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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 20:42:04 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Not Really
Message:
Only if M wants it to. And believe me, he doesn't.
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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 19:28:19 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Good point (but aren't you blocked?)
Message:
Good point, Janet. But aren't you blocked? Or was that an imposter who posted that post this morning under your name?
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Date: Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 12:12:57 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jim, a question...
Message:
I must have missed something, but what's your beef with Janet?

Every time she has posted here recently you are on her ass. What gives? Did I miss something?

Curious,
Cynth

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Date: Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 14:20:09 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Cynth, you DID miss something
Message:
email me, Cynth, and I'll explain if you haven't gotten it already from reading the other threads. But read Janet's post in the thread where I call out for the FA. You'll be able then to understand what the now-removed post suggested. Indeed, her remaining post shouldn't be there either.
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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 19:53:22 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: parently not. here i am
Message:
is everybody shocked to see my negative side come out? i'm breaking thru another stage of premie fake niceness and all my real nastiness is surfacing. more of the same o same o. get over it. I'm normal. It's just another cycle of anger processing out. like you, Jim, it all comes out my mouth. I can't act on any of it in any tangible way. This is the extent of it.
Blocked? No-to the contrary. I'm hemhorraging nicely, thank you. When I tore off the leeches, the blood fairly spurted out! Salt water will prevent it from staining anything, tho. wash it in lukewarm water.
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Date: Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 15:37:44 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Ahoy there Janet. (censored)
Message:
Don't worry about it Janet. We often get into trouble if we say what we really feel. So what? We ain't perfect. We got fucked over. We're perfectly entitled to be mad about it.

We just need to find a satisfying, legal way to channel our anger. I wouldn't call it negative. It's best to take aim carefully, and not waste your ammunition, metaphorically speaking of course.

I think personally confronting the Captain with a few questions is a good idea for starters. Then have something in reserve, like a ***** (Censored) or a couple of **** (Anth, we can't print stuff like this on the forum.) for when the heavies come to cart you out.

Then if that doesn't have the desired effect we could hire a **** then **** with some **** which would result in *****.

(Sorry Anth. Had to take the whole next two paragraphs out for legal reasons.)

Anth the champagne anarchist.

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Date: Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 17:18:18 (EST)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: butting in (sorry)
Message:
Anth I know you think some of us get carried away at times
in our protests. But I have had to listen to someone close
to me go on about the anthrax scare. I'd give details but am
more cautious these days. There is a LOT of concern about the deaths and I know where I live is one of the heavier places being looked at because one of the pilots of the planes lived here and I do know they are monitoring the net.
And, there is the med issue. You must have seen me go nuts on line when I was messed up on my meds, not taking them or getting high
or loaded with them or whatever. It's not a joke or funny to
come to and realize you have been self destructive yet again, have alienated people you care about. You explain to them why and they
just say 'it's OK' but you know the damage is done and will
never be repaired really.
I don't know for a fact if this is going on. But I do know that
if it is, it is no laughing matter.

Selene the smarmy boofhead

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Date: Tues, Dec 04, 2001 at 15:55:08 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Point taken Selene.
Message:
I just thought I'd give Janet a bit of support. I didn't actually read her post. As you said, we all have our off days.

Take care

Anth the red in the bed.

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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 23:38:12 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Did somebody say, 'banned'?
Message:

[ Graphic Link ]
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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 21:19:58 (EST)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Janet, I'm glad you're still here
Message:
you are sorely needed
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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 19:59:36 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: What planet are you on?
Message:
Janet,

CAC should have been enough of an example for all of us as to how the cult will misconstrue even the most obvious jokes for their own purposes. No one in their right mind should be recommending anyone pull off any anthrax hoaxes even if they're obviously joking. How much worse, then, when they're not? Are you trying to sabotage the forum? You couldn't do a better job if you tried.

Think for a change, MENSA girl!

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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 19:09:11 (EST)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Announcement
Subject: I think this is bullshit
Message:
I think Mr. Announcement is just pulling our legs, here, aren't you Mr. A? If all this is true Maharaji might as well make an announcement, himself, that all he ever was throughout the years was bullshit. How could he be anything else to the discriminating mind in light of these 'changes'? But if the truth be told, so many premies are so backlogged in their way of thinking the implications of this wouldn't make a dent. They'd go on worshipping him as always completely oblivious that their own master is telling them he's no wiser or holier than any of them and has no special abilities at all to lead them to anything. They'd still be starstruck as ever.
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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 19:13:50 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: It would be great if it was true
Message:
But it certainly is not. Right, Jerry.
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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 20:30:38 (EST)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Maybe it is
Message:
But it certainly is not. Right, Jerry.


---

Hi, Joe,

I, personally, think it's bullshit, but who knows? Cult-think is so wacky Maharaji just might believe he can get away with the coupe of the century, tearing himself down and in the process have premies believe in him that much more. Sounds weird but to listen to the logic of a premie, I wouldn't be surprised if they used this as an argument to prove Maharaji never said he was God after all. I want to hear what the Chris Dickeys and the SCs have to say about it, provided it's true. Now, THAT should prove interesting.

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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 19:05:25 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Announcement
Subject: Sadly, this is an obvious fake.
Message:
For a number of reasons, but the most GLARING is this one:

Far less donations from students will be required.

The day Maharaji says that, and actually discouraged DONATIONS, I will give him a donation myself. I am convinced the man is genetically incapable of ever wanting LESS on the material plane.

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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 19:21:13 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Joe, you better edit that fast!
Message:
Joe,

You were my prime candidate for faking this. If it's not you, I'm down a suspect myself. I think you better edit your post fast, man. You never know. This could just be Maharaji's way of cutting his losses, trying to minimze the agro. Yes, even down to the donations.

What got me, frankly, was the last bit about recent overtures to Satpal in India. That didn't seem intentionally funny as much as it sounded plausible. Remember, we do know that Maharaji seems to have recently agreed with Raja Ji's opinion that his work is accomplished or some such nonsense. Hell, even THAT could have been a parody (in fact, didn't we joke just that way ourselves a number of times before it really happened?).

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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 20:39:38 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: That's embarrasing, Jim
Message:
I'd stop right now if I were you. You have been around this a looooong time.

For one thing, if this kind of thing was going to happen we would have heard about 10,000 leaks of it before it did.

I think the comment about 'time for me' crap (as if there ever was a time that WASN'T) is just to begin telling the cult members he is going to sit on his ass and enjoy his riches even more than he already does. Even the pretense of 'propagation' will be gone, because, really, it already is.

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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 20:54:54 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Hey, Joe, let's face it
Message:
Truth is, neither you nor I really know. If I were betting on even odds I might well bet 'hoax'. I probably would. But are you so sure that you would still bet 'hoax' if you had to give me, say, ten to one? I mean, it's crazy stuff, this cult business. So, yeah, you're likely right, I'll give you that. There's nothing on EV's site. The changes are so radical. But, well, who really knows? (Would you give me 20 to one?)
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 23:39:42 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I think it is written by...
Message:
...some clever PWK (who has read this forum and has remembered our objections and is reacting to us) trying to imagine what it would be like if....

These were exactly the sort of things that were being floated by a few of us last year; by PWKs who had read EPO but did not yet know the full extent of the hoax. The ideas never got anywhere because most of us got out when we realized that the glasnost and perestroika were fake.

Whether real or imagined these ideas are not far off what many of the savvier PWKs would like to see occur.

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Date: Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 11:44:53 (EST)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Check out SC on LG
Message:
He couldn't care less if it's true or not. All that matters is the experience. It's personal, Pat. If you're connected you're connected, blah, blah, blah. Talk about a one track mind. And Carlos wants to know if it's true because it might be 'confusing' and 'dangerous' if it is. These guys are just a wall too high for me, man. Unbelievable.
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Date: Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 04:11:52 (EST)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Premies have Exe's to Thank
Message:
If on the remote chance that any of this info turns out to be true. These revisions really do address a few of the many issue's we have discussed at length here many times.

Its interesting to note if viewed from a cult members standpoint that these changes would make a positive difference for the practicing premie if they went into effect.

It really does sound like someone was listening in here and had their finger on the pulse of a few of the exe's objections voiced on the forum.

The problem is this post is too much on the mark for some of the changes that would actually be good for the cult. On the other hand they would be bad for m personally because he would have to give up some ground.

These changes if actualized would levy power away from M and that fact in and of itself is quite telling that this post if a fraudulent prank. He is not going to relenquish his power, not even one tiny bit.

Altought m would easily blame EV for screwing things up, there are some things here that I cannot imagine him ever doing. The list is numerous, a few that come to mind in reference to this post by announcement are as follows.

M would never use the word cult in reference to any of his activities, and he would never publicly state his intentions to liquidate assets, he would not admit outright that attendance is off and he certainly would not downplay his role as master or the need for money and donations.

And a corporate merger with SatPal, yeah right, who will be the CEO?

Dream on, this thing reeks of the same bogus odor as the rest of M's sordid affairs.

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Date: Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 11:33:24 (EST)
From: Jim S.
Email: None
To: Brian Smith
Subject: M and Satpal=Corpulent Merger? nt
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 18:44:02 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Announcement
Subject: That's great!
Message:
But it's a bit late for the hundreds of premies who killed themsleves (including the one aspirant I knew) in despair because the Living Master couldn't help them.

Nice bit of spin doctoring but the only thing that will make it right is for Rawat to fess up that he screwed up and give back the money he ripped off from ashram premies.

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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 18:39:51 (EST)
From: Jim S.
Email: None
To: Announcement
Subject: Is this for real, or a goof? nt
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 18:43:30 (EST)
From: IP tracker
Email: None
To: Jim S.
Subject: It can be traced as far as....
Message:
... Columbia, Missouri, but after that information packets start to get lost.
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Date: Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 02:28:16 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: IP tracker
Subject: I thought it might be Nigel and Moley..
Message:
Guess not.

What a cracking good read this was. Still laughing!

Tonette

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Date: Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 18:52:10 (EST)
From: Moley
Email: moldy_warp@hotmail.com
To: Tonette
Subject: No - but it's bollocks IMO
Message:
A bridge to far to be genuine, I reckon.... Rawat dethroning himself - can't see it meself.
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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 18:10:34 (EST)
From: such
Email: None
To: Announcement
Subject: another new spin-scam or joke!
Message:
joker, disaffected troll, or even possibly some desperate last-gasp cult revisionist bs
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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 18:05:48 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Announcement
Subject: Is this for real? If so, I'm speechless
Message:
.... but just for a minute. No, if this if for real I've got a couple of thoughts in repsonse:

This announcement to be made locally, and it is presented to EPO for those people who obtain information there.
*
As Maharaji has confirmed during the recent tour, there are many changes going to happen with the practice of Knowledge this next year. Basically: less organization, more heart.

Only a guy who's been a cult leader his whole life could think he could orchestrate such a bizarre, top-down attempt to retool his cult. Only people who are cult members could fall for it, again, no questions asked. And, believe me, it doesn't look like there's much room for questions to any of this. Questions seem to be the one thing Maharaji's pained to avoid at all costs. He'll even compromise anything, ANYTHING, so long as he can avoid the open dialogue that just might be his ruin.

The need for the changes has arisen because of two major concerns:

1. Elan Vital has become unpopular and ineffective. Elan Vital was nothing more than an attempt to organize something that defies organization, which creats a lot of tension.

Even those of us who've been away for decades can see that Elan Vital is nothing here. Nothing but a scapegoat, that is. There's nothing inherently wrong with EV other than the fact that it's a cult put together to do the bidding and enrich a cult leader. Other than that, it's just a bunch of people trying to do what they think's right. There is no 'insitutional culture' there other than what Maharaji gives it and that environment can change in seconds, literally seconds, if he says so. For example, Maharaji apparently questioned his suit-and-tie look at the Bay area meeting the other day. If he wanted to drop the suit look entirely from EV all he could accomplish that in days. All those suits EV lifers have worn and, I imagine, sometimes had to scrimp and save for would be shunted to the back of closets around the world, never to be seen again. All he has to do is say so. No one would ever oppose him. That's the magic of the cult. Point being, that it's not as if Maharaji's somehow squared off against this deeply entrenched EV culture that even he could never change. That's a laugh!

So EV's whatever he wants it to be. Once, when it was DUO, it was his fledgling world government. Before then it, when it was DLM, it was his sacred vehicle to bring enlightenment to the world (as prohpecized!). It's always been nothing but him and a completely responsive reflection of his every whim. Now, it's his scapegoat. How pathetic. There IS no EV, really. MAHARAJI's EV. Who can't see this?

2. Video and Satellite feeds lack that essential 'live' feeling. Attendance has been down. Broadcasts by television should be secondary to a more direct exchange between teacher and student.

I'm sorry, I'm confused. Didn't we just start Phase II or something? Weren't we only now on the threshold of the most exciting turn of events in ages, the inauguration of 'Auto Knowledge'? Wasn't this the era when the whole world was going to have the ability -- finally -- of tuning into Maharaji electronically, via satellite, video's, etc? And now what? He's doing a complete about face? No manager of nothing outside of a cult or a cult-like dictatorship like North Korea, Maoist China or -- thanks, Deb -- Stalinist Russia, could ever stay in power with such drastic and contradictory miscues, false starts and turnabouts. And to think that he plans to pull this off without question! Amazing, isn't it?
-
Maharaji has worked hard throughout the years to banish unnecessary complications to the practice of Knowledge. And there is more work needed. Cultish aspects must go. The flow of the experience is the primary focus. As such, question and answer session on the topic of enlightenment, to give one example, will always be of little value.

Well, that's a clever, if entirely illogical, little non-sequitor. How's it go? 'Because cultish aspects must go, there'll be no more questions?' Maharaji looks more and more like a guilty man who will do anything, cut any deal necessary with the prosecutor, to avoid taking the stand. I'd like to think that, in some small way, it's because he knows that what I was saying has some truth in it. That is, the moment premies start speaking up at programs, asking sincere, real questions and exposing the facts and true history of this mess, his final sanctuary's broken as is the spell. So what he' trying to do is remove every last bit of anything someone could ask about, hoping that'll placate the masses who'll forget they even HAVE brains, let alone how to use them.

In an effort to rid the practice of Knowledge of all things superfluous, the following changes will occur:

1.Middlemen
Mahatmas, initiators, instructors, part-time instuctors, community coordinators, contact persons, presidents, and all current hierarchical positions will be terminated. Service is an equalizer of persons.

Hm, how about the Master? Does he go too? Anyway, again, this is just dumb-ass scapegoating. Sure, some EV functionaries are jerks but that's all beside the point. If you want to organize peopel to do stuff you need to organize. There's no evil in that. The evil's at the top, here, folks. Obviously. What they're saying would never work anyway. This is just silly talk. Desparate, desparate silly talk. It's as if the plane's falling and they're trying to throw out anything with any weight. But hey, some of those things are people, don't forget! Oh well .....

2. Secrecy
There will be no more secret 'Training Sessions.' There will be no more 'behind-the-scenes' activity that some PWK are allowed to know about and others not. Secrecy is for cults. The experience of Knowledge demands openness, honesty, and full disclosure. The only thing that is required is the free flow of that experience.

Good! At last Maharaji's going to come clean about all the x-rated years, the major hypocrisy he perpetuated so that he could party like a banshee withotu his devotees knowing. Finally, we're going to find out about the money. Finally, we're going to find out about Monica. And what really DID happen with Fakiranand ...

Yeah right!

3. More direct contact between teacher and student, again for the free flow of that experience.

So, once again, the cult leader tries to reshape the nature of the vague, amorphous 'gift' he claims to give. Now it sounds like something dissemintated live like an IV drip. Too bad no one can ask anything about this recent cosmoligical adjustment...

4. Expences and donations
Far less donations from students will be required. The experience of Knowledge is free. Organization is the costly factor. With less organization, only essential costs will need to be covered. Several holdings and much personal property will be sold off. Gatherings will be simpler.

I take it the 'selling off' starts in Malibu? And the books will finally be open, for once and for all, not just the current ones but ALL of them? If this post is legit, this cult is flailing like a heart attack victim shocked with a defibrillator.

5. The four techniques
The inner experience cannot be defined by, approached, nor narrowly confined to the four techniques. Connecting to one's own heart is a sacred act. It requires humility, silence, sincerity, but it does not require any particularly prescribed practices. The techniques are suggestions only, and the methods that the student finds most effective should be used.

Well, he really has been all over the map on this one, hasn't he? For the last few years one of the main official arguments against the exes is that we likely never had the right experience, largely, the cult claimed, because we might not have been doing the techniques just so. You had to do them exactly like this -- not that -- no, like this ... careful now. In fact, only the Master could be trsuted to show you exactly how to press your eyeballs, how to stick your thumgs in your ears (is it earplugs now?), how to listen to your breath. And now what? They're jettisoning the whole thing!? And for what? For some forced emotions? THAT'S IT??!

6.The carrot stick of enlightenment
Human beings do not require the light of a thousand suns to be fulfilled. Our needs are simpler. Acceptance and love are the necessary components. Knowledge is not a way to become perfect. It should not be goal oriented in any way. It is a way to accept and love life as it is.

The finaly rebuke to Shrin Hans and the hindu crackpot cult legacy Maharaji took over for him. So we didn't need the light of ten thousand suns after all! My oh my oh my oh my oh MY! (sorry about all the exclamation points and question marks. But, this is what happens when you come off a heavy bout of speechlessness.)

7. The living Master
The grace of God flows to all beings directly and it is a mistake to define its source in one person only. Maharaji should not be regarded as different or superior to other human beings. He does not experience, or require any experience, other than the humility and love for the higher power that we are all capable of. Notions about messiah, savior, perfectness, and uniqueness of purpose or position should be abandoned. Knowledge is already within each person and should be/must be shared by all people. The exclusiveness of cults derives from the false claims of the unique divinity of any one person. Such cults will always divide people. Knowledge is universal and everything that prevents its universal appeal is a false concept.

Reminds me of an old western comedy cliche where the posse rides past the guy yelling out 'Which way did he go? Which way did he go?' and the guy they're really looking for just stands there saying 'He went thataway!' This is like Maharaji trying to do a Krishnamurti but staying in power with every bit as much cult control as ever. Hilarious and pathetic, pathetic and hilarious. Sigh.

8. To honor the memory of Shri Hans, a re-establishment of harmonious bonds between Maharaji and his family of origin will become a goal. The results of this effort is, of course, unknown at this time. The initiation of this effort occurred at the Hans Jayanti program held by Satpal in New Delhi last month.

Snake dance! Can't wait to watch, although I can't, for the life of me, imagine how this could ever happen. But then who could have ever anticipated this devlopment. (Is this all a hoaz and am I just making a fool of myself posting this shit? Well, won't be the first time, I guess.)

With best wishes for ALL people who have received Knowledge. This announcement may be circulated.

Who posted this??

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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 18:53:55 (EST)
From: Jim S.
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Good analysis, Jim. And if it is true...
Message:
this will certainly be interesting to see.

I'm not too convinced that this is for real, but if it is, it could really lead to some interesting dialogue.

However, that would mean m pulling a k (krishnamurti), and that's hard to imagine...

It would also open up a REAL dialogue with premies, as they might feel that it is now OK to actually think and feel for themselves, because the master has now allowed them to...

If it is true, it would seem to indicate that m has finally seen that he can run, but he cannot hide, and is trying to do it as gracefully as possible...it would also lead me to believe that epo is the major cause for this....

Very interesting, but I'm not sure this is for real....it seems too sensible, for starters.....and m saying that he is no better than anyone else?...then why follow him at all?

And the part about mending fences with satpal....that's absolutely hysterically funny....what a sitcom this would make!

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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 23:18:11 (EST)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Jim S.
Subject: Premies thinking for themselves? Ha! [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 19:02:30 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jim S.
Subject: Yeah, if I were a betting man .....
Message:
Jim,

I don't know how I'd bet on this one. It's a little dry and constrained in some respects to be a parody. On the other hand, the content is really so radical. And you're right, the Satpal overtures are unthinkable. Mind you, who ever thought we'd see Sapal set up as a rival Perfect Master in the first place? It's all whacky.

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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 19:14:48 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: You can bet me.....
Message:
God Jim, look at that thing. It's total garbage.
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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 20:27:32 (EST)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: maybe a premie pipe dream
Message:
i.e.: maybe some poor pathetic premie took a big bong[o] hit!

or, like, it's a Xmas wish list for Santa - doesn't dis person know dat dere ain't no such thing as a sanity clause?!!

Y'know, speaking of bongo hits, I once heard about this elephant shit - supposedly really good stuff - in the discourse of The Living Massa dung beetle, once upon a time in Passyerdinner [eh, Pasadena].

LOL

Peace + lentils,

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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 20:37:55 (EST)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: suchabanana
Subject: Re: maybe a premie pipe dream
Message:
or, like, it's a Xmas wish list for Santa

Funny as shit, Such. Biggest laugh I've had today. Thanks.

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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 17:44:00 (EST)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Announcement
Subject: What about Jagdeo??
Message:
What about CAC and its progeny? What about fairly compensating Abi? What about telling everyone where all the money goes?

Words are cheap. Actions mean something. Send Abi a check for a million dollars (US$) and then we might take you seriously.

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Date: Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 18:58:05 (EST)
From: Moley
Email: moldy_warp@hotmail.com
To: Marianne
Subject: Right on Marianne ! xx nt
Message:
xx
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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 17:52:18 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Hear ye, hear ye...
Message:
She deseres a lot more than a million dollars for the damage that was done to her. Also, the spiritual manipulation that caused her to think that her clothes were 'mind'. No other child would have related to that. That her natural defenses were hampered because of her parents entrapment in the cult. Because, her parents were intimidated and still are by MAHARapeCondoner today. Because she could have started the healing process decades ago. And because she has numerous other ailments as a result of the EVIL ones cult indoctrination.

Having him say, it looks like a cult and will try to hide the evidence from now on doesn't alleviate anything.

I say, at least $20 Million.

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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 20:32:08 (EST)
From: gofer
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: we hear you
Message:
so will those you are attacking
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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 17:47:41 (EST)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Re: What about Jagdeo?
Message:
Marianne, The 'announcement' is an ex premie creativity post.
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Date: Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 12:30:47 (EST)
From: Cynthia....Bill did
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: you get my email?...(NT)
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Tues, Dec 04, 2001 at 01:14:05 (EST)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Cynthia....Bill did
Subject: Re: you get my email?...(NT)
Message:
try
bill52 at rocketmail.com
I do want to talk to you about something
Also if Deborah is here, write also.
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Date: Tues, Dec 04, 2001 at 01:19:59 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: Email is not going through
Message:
I'm out of here for the night. But I'll check for emails. Did you get my last email, last week.
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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 17:37:17 (EST)
From: bill-archive note of interest
Email: None
To: Announcement
Subject: How EPO and the forums began.
Message:
Jim started asking and posting about my former cult leader, a guy named Guru Maharaj Ji (ever heard of him?) on al.support.ex-cult. No one knew who the hell He was talking about at first. The first other ex who answered was William O. Williams, a guy out at UCLA who happened to be an ex but who had a general interest in cults as well. Then there were two others, Katie Darling, posting then as 'Unlimited', and Scott Perry. Rick also showed up for those first conversations as well, as did David Stirling.

Anyway, Scott ran a company which already had a website which, even five years ago, was a bit of a rarity. Scott contacted Jim and David Stirling and asked if they would like to help put together a website. Scotte would do all the heavy lifting, they would only have to decide with him on the details and pay equal parts of what was really a fairly nominal fee for putting EPO up.

'We approached this project with lots of excitement and just a little trepidation. Scott was concerned about physical attacks as well as legal ones. I promised him then that, even though his name was on the line as registered owner of the site, I'd stand with him to then end should Maharaji ever sue. This was vague legally, of course, but it meant something to us then. Mind you, then as now, I knew that we had nothing to really worry about, truth being a complete defence to ridicule and criticism of one's former cult leader.

Scott did indeed get a threat or at least thought he did. Might not have been more than a few heavy breathing phone calls or something -- can't recall -- but it disturbed him. Plus, he felt that he needed to spend more time on his fledgling business AND, maybe even more importantly, he became uncomfortable with settling into such a critical mode as this endeavour necessitates. Scott was both an active Quaker and practicioner of A Course in Miracles. He just wanted to forgive everyone, not exactly a complementary ambition to confronting a false god. So, as Scott wanted to give up the forum and David had both the interest and background (he also knew his way around web design a bit), David took over. (That's not David Simpkiss, the current Dave we all know so well, but David Stirling).

After some time, David had a new baby and decided then that he, too, wanted out. Brian wanted to take a shot at it and so he took over. Katie soon joined him as his assistant and, well, the rest is all New Testament.'-Jim

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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 17:32:02 (EST)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Announcement
Subject: it all sounds familiar
Message:
Like the closing of the ashram days.
The experience of knowledge, whatever that is by your definition,
is found in life everywhere and every day. Why doesn't M or some
premie explain exactly WHY maharaji is needed in all this?
Doesn't no: 7 The Living Master, say this more or less? so, why do people need Maharaji exactly?
He is making himself a middleman, no?
Best wishes back at you Announcement,
(I had thought of naming one of my kids Announcement).
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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 12:47:40 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: All
Subject: It (OT)
Message:
We wil know what
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Date: Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 04:28:20 (EST)
From: Peg
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Re: It (OT)
Message:
is this code?
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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 12:45:29 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: All
Subject: J-M, do you know this person?
Message:
Yvesargant@wanadoo.fr

This person sent me the BadTrans virus twice. This was after the original attack and so it did not infect me.

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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 14:50:48 (EST)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Re: J-M, do you know this person?
Message:
The virus is transmitted by infected machines to anyone in a MAPI address book - does the email address have a _ preceeding it? if so it was definetly sent out automatically, by the virus. I get 10-20 pieces of mail a day with that virus - try F-secure virus protection it catches it right away.
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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 13:52:23 (EST)
From: Nick
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Re: Yves Argant
Message:
Gerry

I used to live with this guy, Yves and his wife Danielle in France in 1974 in an ashram in the East of France. He now lives in Lyon. He is the one who posted the very strange message here about him being victimised by the French govt a couple of months ago.

I wrote to him (in all naivete) as a result of his posting, having not seen or heard from him in 20 years or so. He did not reply. He has been posting anonymously on the French Forum and I think that J-M has banned him. I'm really sad that his fanaticism has led him to behave so lowly.

Nick

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Date: Mon, Dec 03, 2001 at 03:52:21 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Nick
Subject: Y and Danielle Argant
Message:
Trolls trying to hijack the French forum with the help of some other premies.

We try to keep them at bay.

I've also been harrassed by some of these guys sending me dozens of huge emails everyday, each email holding viruses.

These guys are a pleague.

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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 09:39:58 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: All
Subject: If George could write his own obituary?
Message:

[ Graphic Link ]
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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 17:45:36 (EST)
From: bill
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Inscense is cancer causeing also. [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 23:10:11 (EST)
From: such
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: LSMFT + incense and peppermints... [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 00:40:22 (EST)
From: Sir Dave
Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
To: All
Subject: Well Olivia
Message:
He was the best looking Beatle, after all. Thanks for sharing him with us. George will always live, in our hearts and he has left us some of the most wonderful, heartfelt songs that touch everybody, young and old, the world over.

My children of nine and ten dig George and all the other Beatles and love the songs. George shared himself with the world. And the world loves him for it.

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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 00:52:39 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: The Sitar on 'Norwegian Wood'
Message:
I loved that, although I heard Ravi Shankar say it sucked, although Ravi later said he saw George Harrison as his son. But even if Ravi hated it, I loved Norwegian Wood and the Sitar.
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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 11:49:51 (EST)
From: berni
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Camberwell Carrots
Message:
'That berni got us to join the KOP or KFC or something to stop the password thingy, and all of a sudden we have nothing to protest about.. Now what are we supposed to do?'

I agree Joe - it was just right for the song. That Ravi is too good for his own good ( he is good though )

It's nice to able to post again - not that I do that often. I am more pleased that other wandering cyber souls can stick in their oar whenever they pass by. I know there are lots of sticky, muddy, yukky oars that are stuck in from time to time but there is also the occassional gem that might not have appeared with the password limitation.
I think most people, premies included, are fair minded and are not out to disrupt for the sake of it.
We should welcome premies who would like to offer some explanation for the whole Knowledge mallarky.
At least then we can try put them right ;)
Here's looking forward to many future years of the ex-premie forum - many thanks for all the efforts of you guys and gals that administer the thing.
berni

Oh and while I'm here, and I promise to be a good boy and not to add too many OT posts, just like to add how sad it is that George has gone. Many have mentioned his great music but his film work is also remarkable.
Michael Palin said that without George's 'largess' The Life of Brian would never have been made and some others in the film business were saying earlier that a film like WITNAIL & I would never have seen the light of day without George recognising something special in the anarchic script and giving Bruce & co the money to make it.
And it would be a poor film industry without Withnail, Brian, Time Bandits, Long Good Friday....and the rest.
And finally, I remember going up to Apple Corps in Saville Row a few times and being blown away by the openess and friendliness of everone there ( of course they were all stoned :))
Part of the reason for Apple Corps was to assist budding artists in all media and I remember George gave my artist friend a bunch of money to by paints etc. without any boring forms to fill in - just a smile and a wink.
Great days
[ Graphic Link ]

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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 00:35:59 (EST)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Just Wondering
Message:
If EV is not involved in the 'speaker' going around and speaking to informal groups, but EV is lending it's smart card system and 'bongo' lists to the 'speaker' as well as helping these 'informal' groups then a few questions develop.

1) Why does EV need a non-profit tax status if they don't prepare and propagate for the speaker?

2) What does a church that isn’t allowed to organize for its leader do?

3) Why are these 'requests' (demands?) for cash made? EV Doesn't need cash they can take any currency -there are no tax implications.

4) Who gains from these large cash transactions?

5) I think there is a real opportunity for a newly ex-premie who has factual knowledge to become a confidential (argh) informant for the IRS. I believe informers get part of the recovered taxes.

Do you want to report suspected violations of the tax laws?
Call 1-800-829-0433

Report Suspected Tax Fraud Activity

1-800-829-0433

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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 00:20:43 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Janet: A post from Carlos from AG
Message:
Harrison by using his death as an excuse to attack M. It is not substantiated that Mr. Harrison tried to give M a car, Rolls Royce or otherwise. Nor, if he did do so, and M refused it, is there any basis for concluding his motive for refusing it was what she claimed, envy over their relative acceptance by the world.

This contradicts her stated opinions of M's interest in money. Which isn't too suprising. When she was a premie she interpreted his actions and
motives in ways that fit her then positive attitude about him; now that she is an ex she interprets them negatively.

I know because when we were neighbors and good friends (I, at least thought we were good friends)in Denver she shared with me the story of
M's having suposedly turned down a $3 million donation, much to Bob Mishler's dismay, from a rich aspirant at a time when we still owed over
$2 million from Millenium debts. She had no problem believing M would turn down money offerred for the wrong reason then! (I don't know if the
story is true or not; I believe it is, as I heard it from several other usually reliable sources, but none of them claimed to have gotten it straight from either Mishler or M and none of the versions I heard placed anyone else as being present.)

Regardless of the truth or falseness of your allegations, Janet, shame on you. Mr. Harrison's widow, child and friends don't need this kind of crap at a time like this. How self centered you must be, to seek to use his death to further your own agenda!

I have not yet asked for the password to F7, and thus can not post this there. If anyone who has the password wishes to paste this there you have
my permission to do so.

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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 09:20:31 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: tell carlos this 4 me
Message:
number one, yes. my feelings about maharaji have changed-- radically-- since those days. also, 25 years have passed, in every one of our lives- and I have watched many lives play out, since that time, which tends to show much more clearly, people's character, mettle, worth true motives and the overall flavor of their lives.how interesting that you so clearly remember something I told you 25 years ago. while i am kindly disposed toward you, i would like to comment in return that I can remember nothing of significance that you ever told me, by contrast.let this be a lesson to one and all: people do remember what you say, and they do hold you to it, long after you forget having said it. so never utter anything you dont mean, or that you would'nt mind explaining again years later.second--what I had to say in praise of George and in scorn of Maharaji was said straight, no chaser, and others who had relationships with either of them can do what they amy. Frankly, Olivia got more real love from George, and he had more real love for her, than she will ever have from Maharaji. If my observation gets back to her and she has to feel anything about it, whether it be for her grief at losing her mate or upset at such words about her guru, i abide unperterbed in my observation. such crises of faith are the stuff of which maturity and evolution are born. I weathered what life threw at me. She will do same. You will note that I praised the real human being who loved, married and provided for her, and i damned the one who gulled her, led her on, bilked and fooled her during the same span of years. i reiterate my original truth: george never went around the world telling and gulling people to worship him, give him money, surrender their lives to him and believe he was divinity in person. he just played guitar and sitar and spoke what he felt. what came to him, came freely and willingly and he never got an ego about it.in fact, looking at the timeline, one could even say that it was george's sentiments that brought us unwittingly to maharaji's feet, wile george continued on and wasnt taken in.had the beatles not appeared, would we have ever, as a generation, taken acid? believed that Love Is All You Need? gone to gurus? tried meditation? sworn to live in Peace? known or cared about India? considered the idea that one could See My Sweet Lord? would we have enlarged our scope to care about the whole world, individual by individual, and whole masses of suffering peoples like bangladesh, ethiopia, biafra,...?George led the Beatles to those illuminations, and they then led all of us.And along came rawat and exploited it. perverted it. We opened up, cared, felt, saw, and therefore We wanted to take care of the whole ofthe human race
---
and he repeatedly got jealous, alarmed, pompous, broke our wills and turned them back to glut him. his wants. his whims. his selfish aims.and george wisely steered clear and kept on toward the true destination.no, I won't back down from my observation, Carlos. And if it causes OLivia pain, because she lived her life between George and Maharaji, then so be it. It's called waking up, growing up, realizing what you had versus what you've lost, and where you put your love.Maharaji does not now, and never has, and never will, love Olivia. All he wants is to take and get and have and covet for himself. George did love Olivia. He spent his life with her. What he gave to her in all ways, was from the depths of his soul. What he surrounded her with, Maharaji would give his eye teeth to have, and never will.She may never realize it, or then again, she very well might.There's time left, yet. She wouldn't be the first woman on earth to be gazing at and worshipping someone else, all the while the one who truly loves her is/was right by her side the whole time; and not realize it until they were gone. It happens every day.ALl in all, looking at Maharaji's whole life, and George Harrison's whole life, I'd say George lived the fuller, more genuine, richer, truer life. He gave more to the world honestly, caringly, truthfully, without pretense. He benefitted more people and maybe even influenced history. He certainly influenced all of ours.Maharaji could still wake up and do some good. His clock hasn't run out yet.
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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 17:47:08 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Very nice post, Janet [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 20:44:26 (EST)
From: dh
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: Re: Very nice post?
Message:
fuck you ! she can't even be considerate enough to paragraph the fucker! just your type eh?
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Date: Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 05:02:00 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: dh
Subject: its not me. glitch it seems.
Message:
i had this same problem on the old forum. it seems to be a webtv interface with the software. i paragraph. i can parse the thing in html. nothing works. i do fine over at AG. i was doing fine here before the password overlay. now, this is what i get. go yell at the software. or cut and paste my text and reparse it for yourself to your satisfaction. it's still english.
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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 21:06:41 (EST)
From: Carlos
Email: None
To: dh
Subject: dh, she normally does gramatical
Message:
construction better than I do. I'd guess my post, or perhaps her sense of loss at GH's death, has her upset; hece less use of proper punctuation.

Janet, you failed to address what I still say is shameful, tying your anti-M discourse to GH's death.

If this posts, your password isn't up, guys.

By the way, thanks, Deb.

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Date: Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 05:04:30 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Carlos
Subject: its the software.
Message:
I didn't write any differently than i ever do. nothing works. not even html parsing.
ow well. read it out loud. we don't speak our punctuation aloud when we talk, so...
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Date: Mon, Dec 03, 2001 at 12:25:05 (EST)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: I always read you Janet
Message:
... even the posts that get homogenised between your screen and mine! They are always worth reading, with or without html parsing.

JohnT
- never a premie

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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 21:09:04 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Carlos
Subject: This is for you Carlos
Message:
Have a great day, I'm out of here. George was such an +)
[ Graphic Link ]
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Date: Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 04:41:50 (EST)
From: Saw this first on AG.
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: Dug it both places. NT [nt]
Message:
Have a great day, I'm out of here. George was such an +)


---

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Date: Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 22:40:28 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Confronting M: Any Volunteers?
Message:
I've thought further on this and I really feel like I'm on solid ethical ground encouraging someone -- anyone -- to call the Emperor on his nudity at one of these programs. I also think that once one does it, and does it well, the word will get out and there will be others and just think how great and effective that will be in exposing him.

Think about it. If you were Maharaji what would be worse than having an intelligent, confident and well-informed former follower publically confront him? Nothing. 'Maharaji's world', in some respects, is nothing but his satsangs. It seems as if he's able to perpetuate his fraudulent myth there without any consideration of the real outside world. He and the premies take that as a sign of validation somehow. Superstitious in the extreme by definition, they see these smooth, cult functions as self-evident proof of Maharaji's legitimacy and are bolstered by them against all truth or reason.

So how cool would it be if some truth finally invaded those hallow halls? Someone's got to have the guts to put the bal on this cat. And, interestingly enough, it can't be one of us forum regulars. We're all tagged and shut out, as far as I know. Indeed, just a few months ago we heard that Joe and I in particular were on some sort of blacklist at all events. I think they might even have our pictures or something, as I recall. This list might now have grown to include everyone here, even ... no I won't make that joke.

Anyway, because of this, it's got to be someone who's 'out' enough that they both really want to do this and feel like they could weather the turbulence with relative ease in the hall but also in the 'community' to the extent that might matter to them AND someone who has such a low ex profile that they could get in. Is there such a one amongst us?

Look, I'm serious. Confronting Raja Ji in person for me was entirely cathartic, wonderful and significant. Was anyone here there by chance? Hotel near LAX in the late 80's? Raja Ji trying to scrape up more money for M's jet. Some guy whining about his 'relationship' with M, Raja Ji giving him some typically pat and inane answer and then some guy in the back row standing up and saying:

Hold on there! We were told you guys were divine!

(me)

and then having this relatively long exchange with him? If you were there, you'd remember. I won that sucker, ladies and gentlemen. I confronted the Lord's brother and got the best of him. Hell, the next day he came to my office to join me for a drink. Is that the typical 'bongo' treatment?

And, yes, I felt like a million bucks that night and, guess what? I still do every single time I think about it. That one experience galvanized me beyond measure. I'm not lying. I woudln't lie about something like that. No way.

So there it is -- the perfect opportunity for one, some, all of you who want it. You, too, can speak your mind for once! Take back at least a modicum of those years of grovelling. Express some of the very real doubts you repressed for so long. Honestly, what do you have to lose? NOTHING.

I'm not a courageous guy by nature, let me assure you. Bungee jumping? Forget it! Dangerous stuff of any kind? No way. But I stood up to one of my cult leaders (hey, I used to worship him too, didn't I? Better than nothing). And I'm proud as hell I did. I tasted something that night I wish you call could enjoy. Honest.

Before I leave this, I have to say that I was inpsired then, I believe, by Bob Kirby, Maharaji's former plumber who spent a fiar bit of time at the res back in the day. I'd met Bob at a party and we quickly realized that, not only were we both premies but we were openly critical ones (maybe '87? '88?) We fueled each others' doubts like hungry dogs on meat. At last, someone to really talk to about this shit.

Finally, one day Bob got invited to a party at the res. Might have been Maharaji and Marolyn's anniversary, might have been one of their birthdays. At the party, Maharaji was offering cake to everyone and Bob, already on edge because of his growing feelings of disdain for the scene, declined. Boag Prasad itself (food from the guru) and he said no! As he described it, it was quite the moment. Maharaji immediately took the gesture for what it was: a direct challenge to his authority. He insisted Bob take the cake. Bob glared at him and said no again. Back and forth a bit. Naturally, because Maharaji isn't really a tough guy, he didn't have a couple of goons hold Bob down while they shoved the cake in his mouth. He didn't shoot him like Joe Pesci in 'Goodfellas'. What Maharaji did do was lose. And Bob walked away with just a touch more pride and confidence than he'd had in years. He'd given some of that to his guru and, not to say by any means that he HAD to do this to get the stuff back but, well, this is what HE did and it worked. Can you imagine?

So Bob inspired me and I'm just passing it along. No means to pressure anyone, nothing like that. I just KNOW that the moment this stuff starts happening, no number of metal detectors will make a difference. Hm?

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Date: Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 03:33:20 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I would do it in a second!
Message:
Okay, I'm game.
I don't know if they would give me the mic but if I got the chance it would be great fun.
I would need another ex with me for moral support. And I would like input from this forum on exactly how you would like me to phrase things but I would find an interaction with M most interesting.

Tonette
Washington, DC

When and if he ever comes here, he has in the past though so perhaps it could happen.

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Date: Mon, Dec 03, 2001 at 16:53:02 (EST)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: What would you say?
Message:
Tonette,

What kind of 'interaction' do you think you'd get from Maharaji? I'd bet the most you'd get from him is a shrug as if to say 'if that's the way you feel about it....'. And all his psycophants would roar with laughter. That would be the extent of your 'interaction'.

Just out of curiosity, and for fun's sake let's pretend I'm Maharaji and you've got the mic. What would you say to me?

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Date: Tues, Dec 04, 2001 at 05:11:32 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: I wish I had longer for this reply
Message:
I'm running out of time but I might start a conversation with him something like this:

Maharaji, I have listened to you for years and really, really, love you and Knowledge. Thank you so very much. Without your Knowledge I wouldn't know what life was all about. So, I can go on and on trying to thank you Maharaji but what it really boils down to is, thank you for my life, because without you, I wouldn't know what this life is all about. I have so much respect for you Maharaji, I was wondering if you could give me a little advice. You've NEVER steered me wrong in the past.
I have a daughter that was raped by a man who was supposed to be enlightened. In fact,you know him Maharaji. Incrediable, isn't it? Anyway, he is one of your instructors as a matter of fact, so I'm sure the name Jagedo rings a bell. What should I do about my daughters sexual moslestation? Can you locate this man for me Maharaji? Remember you sent him to an ashram in India, one of your ashrams. Oh and just so you know Maharaji, my daughter wasn't the only child your instructor molested. Do you think maybe you should try and do something about this?

Or I might ask,

Hey Maharaji is it easier to meditate when you are drunk or stoned or drunk and stoned.? Do you have any recommendations on what drugs work best? I mean, like, is a hash high better to meditate on rather than a wine high? What do you prefer? VSOP Cognac or a fine Merlot? Hey Maharaji have you ever tried taking acid (LSD) and meditating? Just curious. I know you are a well versed man.

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Date: Tues, Dec 04, 2001 at 17:06:00 (EST)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: Re: I wish I had longer for this reply
Message:
Seriously, Tonette, what reply do you think you'd get from Maharaji to any of those questions where it would be worth your bother to ask them? The only thing he'd probably hear is the frist part, 'Maharaji, I have listened to you for years and really, really, love you and Knowledge. Thank you so very much. Without your Knowledge I wouldn't know what life was all about. So, I can go on and on trying to thank you Maharaji but what it really boils down to is, thank you for my life, because without you, I wouldn't know what this life is all about.' That's really all he's interested in hearing and he's an expert in brushing off the rest.
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Date: Tues, Dec 04, 2001 at 05:18:52 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: I prefer the second question;) [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 22:50:49 (EST)
From: Baren
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: would but WON'T
Message:
WHY WOULD YOU need another EX with you for moral support?
you have truth and god on your side do you not?

any idea how weak, pathetic and totally worthless your ***** is?

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Date: Mon, Dec 03, 2001 at 01:47:21 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Baren
Subject: I beg to differ
Message:
My main concern with having another ex with me would be to make damn sure the ex was rather large and of the the male variety. In fact, more than one would be even better.
Listen, I don't put much past some of the zealots in M's cult.
Moral support or should I say emotional support, is probably a better description of what I mean.
What does God have to do with it? My take is, if there was a God he would of shut M up a long time ago.

Anyway maybe you will post back and tell me who you are.

Regards, Tonette

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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 17:05:59 (EST)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Not me
Message:
I'm not a courageous guy by nature, let me assure you. Bungee jumping? Forget it! Dangerous stuff of any kind? No way.

No, Jim, you just get your rocks off by confronting the FUCKING LORD OF THE UNIVERSE!!! Well, at least his brother. That's balls! Seriously, I stand by what I said to you down below about being true to yourself.

I've spoken to Raja Ji, not as an ex, but as a premie trying to make some progress as such. I was totally unimpressed by him, and if he was Maharaji, I would have become an ex right there on the spot. But seeing as he was only his brother, I gave him some slack. But, I'll tell you, what I would really like to have happen is for Maharaji to stand in front of me, not the other way around, and say something like, 'Jerry, I'm sorry, I mislead you.'

I don't think that's going to happen, so I'm not interested in having anything further to do with the guy.

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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 14:45:10 (EST)
From: such
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: metal detectors:
Message:
checking for any hidden aluminum cream-pie dishes, probably.

or, maybe monitoring if anyone's holding out change - instead of giving it all up to da Boss Speaker OMassa - who is insatiably hungry for dat gwatitude and dat participation: dat materialist fulfillment, dat new mega-toy... jest like dat tune: "for da love of money", fer cryin out lard...

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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 10:11:59 (EST)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Confronting M: Any Volunteers?
Message:
anyone talking to rawat at a program should just concentrate on rawat and not plan on having any effect on anyone else in the audience.
The microphone sound guy will of course shut off the microphone the moment some freedom fighter starts to speak.
I myself know he would not give a shit what I said to him, he would just shout over me and the crowd would cheer.
However, I can have my moment by saying things to a number of folks
........well, no clues here on the forum for cac folks
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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 17:50:14 (EST)
From: bill
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: Re: Confronting M: Any Volunteers?
Message:
must unnerve the premies to be frisked because thier former ashram mates are viewed as enemies and potentail assassins!
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Date: Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 23:58:43 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Attending programs is a self-imposed limitation
Message:
Because Maha is putting the premies through the metal detectors and looking for dissenters at the gates, we need to think of various ways to confront him.

Of course, the ones here that would love to do just that, could probably not get pass the gates and to tell you the truth, who cares?

We can confront Maha from many ways. Let's get suggestions. We can't let only a couple of people qualify for this game. Some of us are more than ready to OUT him.

I had a dream last week where I did confront Maha without having to say boo to him. It was an outdoor environment and I was slightly incognito. He was being his show-off arogant self and walking amongst the crowd. He looked at me and I gave him a 'I know who the fuck you are look' and he recognized who I was, and panic ran over his face. He took off without explaining anything to the premies who were also around. Maha fled and a premie called out to me, and said, 'Are you the person who called Maha a FUCKEN bastard.' I said 'Yea!, that was me and she came over and causually talked to me.

It was very lucid dream as well. I think the message for me was that it doesn't take a closed invitation to challenge him. It is about exposing him outside the confines of his clandestine meeting rooms. And that the word would get out and premies would come along to hear more.

I woke up feeling that the confrontation was going to happen. And then I read RichMandrake's post and was amused by the synchronicity. The dream was probably inspired by the premie who confronted BigHead about whether he mediatated.

It's in the air, as they say. Maha leaked it out that there's going to be changes. Well, we could have a few in store for him ourselves.

What you think?

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Date: Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 23:54:02 (EST)
From: Q
Email: None
To: YYY
Subject: Re: Confronting M: Any Volunteers?
Message:
Definitely, YES!
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Date: Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 22:02:13 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: All
Subject:
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 17:01:21 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Summary: San Francisco 'Appointment'
Message:
I was asked to post the following from someone who was at the November 23 'Appointment Event' at the San Francisco Airport Hyatt.

Report on November 23, 2001 S.F. Event with MJ

With only a few days notice premies only were invited to a program with Maharaji at the S.F. Airport Hyatt. It was to be small regional event (500) in order to give premies the rare opportunity to talk with Maharaji from the floor via a roving mike. The program was scheduled from 5:00 p.m. to 7:00 the day after Thanksgiving. (People were on holiday.)... A $100 donation was suggested. SmartCards were required to get in. Names were checked off lists. Seating tickets were given out. Registration happened early, so there was a lot of warm meeting, greeting and reconnecting. Noticeably absent were the “Suit” presence, badges, and Visions sales. (To clarify, “Suits” were present, but they didn’t walk ten feet in front of themselves.)

To get into the hall everyone had to pass through an airport-style metal detector, which caused a huge back-up, and caused the program to start a little late by the atomic clock. The hall was a ballroom. There was a stage at the front with a simple backdrop behind M’s chair, and black pipe-in drape stretching the length of the hall behind the stage. Two video cameras were stationed in the center of the audience. Photographers in the far side aisles took official photos.

The front of the hall was not stocked with PAMs and major donors. They were there to be sure, but were sprinkled around: the Pascotto boys, Linda Pascotto, Tim Gallowey, big eating Frenchman, Judy Osbourne, Eric Reinemer, etc. David Smith, Belkis Shah, Padharthanand, Mahavir and Danielle Fitzpatrick were also sprinkled around. Some local yokels actually got to sit close, as did some local non-yokels. Marcia Leitner (a local non-yokel) and some of the local non-yokel church ladies (both industrial and mild strength types) were in the front row, practically at the Feet. The Feet weren’t very close, as they were high up on the stage above the audience, and set back…but Marcia and the church ladies were almost as close as you could get. Maharaji’s family members were a little closer. The Visions crew included Monica who appeared in full force wearing brown leather pants, silver belt, boots and platinum blond hair.

Maharaji received a roaring, standing ovation when he came on stage. He welcomed everyone and opened his discourse by talking about waking up and not knowing where he was: he’s traveling so much you know--fly one day, program the next, fly the next day, program the next, etc. From later comments, though, it sounded like he woke up that morning in Malibu—but hey, when you’re speaking stream-of-consciousness, a little incongruency is forgivable.

He rambled on for slightly over an hour. Saying that it can’t be done--remembering every breath and having no doubt--he challenged everyone to “Just try it!” He mentioned that practicing Knowledge leads to enlightenment, with no explanation of what that means. He repeated his often made comments about Knowledge being the “best,” the “tops” (to applause). His talk was light (if unmemorable) with a lot of jokes.

Then he opened up the room for talking to him—emphasizing that this was a time to “talk” to him, not to ask questions. The first person to talk was a woman with a French accent. Maharaji asked if she was French and she said, no, she was from Geneva, Switzerland. Maharaji said something about his visits to Geneva. He was kind and blissed her right out. A woman from Las Vegas told Maharaji her name (a few times) so that he would get it, talked about her deep thirst and how Knowledge quenched it (and thanked him), and begged for service. Maharaji repeated her name and “Las Vegas” and pretended to write on his palm so he would remember. He blissed her right out too. Another woman said, “I love you.” Maharaji responded, “You may not know this but I really need to hear that. I really do.” Then one premie after another declared their heartfelt love and gratitude.

Two men with Spanish accents independently begged to be “close.” To the first one, who listed his credentials and asked to work for him, Maharaji said, “You can be close, because close means close in heart.”

The second one sobbed uncontrollably . He blurted out that he had read the Bible, the Koran, and the Bhagavad Gita and said, “They all talk about You. You are the Lord. Thank you Lord for giving me this life.” (Perhaps he meant “a” Lord…the United Kingdom is dotted with Lords, as is India historically (Lord Brahma, Lord Vishnu, Lord Shiva, Lord Krishna, Lord Rama—all the Indian Masters and Avatars are called Lord). But no, he said “the” Lord.) Maharaji quietly accepted this declaration. When this man begged to be close, Maharaji replied, “It’ll happen.”

Indian premies spoke to Maharaji in Hindi. He told the rest of us that they were “talking about Indian food.” (roar of laughter.) One Indian sisterji raised her hand and her husband, who had not raised his hand but was sitting next to her, took the roving mike when it was offered to her. Maharaji made a big joke about that, and assured sisterji that she would get her turn too. When she finally spoke, I gathered that she was asking Maharaji if she could cook for him. I guess I was right, because when she was done Maharaji chuckled, “She really was talking about Indian food!” (lots of laughter.)

Someone tried to sell Maharaji on San Francisco, saying that it had great restaurants, etc. He said that this was where he had been awakened at 4:00 a.m. and told he had to go a radio station because he had an appointment to go on the air. He said he knew San Francisco was a beautiful city, but he wouldn’t come for the city.

A woman told Maharaji that she had moved here from San Luis Obispo and that she hadn’t seen him in a long time because she was one of the “working poor.” He told her it’s important to “keep your focus.” My interpretation was: “If you have to spend money, spend it on seeing me.”

A woman told Maharaji that she had heard many versions of the story of the devotee who was asked by the Master to get him a glass of water. (The devotee goes down to the river to get a glass of water, but is distracted by women, gets married, has children, i.e. he turns into a spider—according to the mahatmas, that’s when you go from having two legs to having eight legs--and years later remembers that he set out to get a glass of water for his Master.) She asked if he could tell the story again, making the devotee a woman because with all the versions, she had never heard that version.

Maharaji said that it wouldn’t work because, first of all, the Master would have to ask the woman to go for a walk with him and that would be very controversial. And, if the Master asked the woman to get him a glass of water, she would bring it back and spill it (demonstrating) on the Master. But then he said the way it would really happen is that the woman would ask the Master to get her a glass of water. The Master would go down to the river and intentionally slip on a rock and fall into the water so that the current could carry him downstream to where there was a great group of devotees that he wanted to hang out with. The woman would be so pissed that he didn’t come back, that she would go and burn down the ashram. (whole audience in uproarious laughter) Then Maharaji saved himself (almost) with, “But no, it doesn’t have anything to do with man or woman, it’s just what’s in the heart.”

Maharaji said that a lot of changes were coming up. He had been talking to his brother (as if there was only one) and his brother said that their father had asked Maharaji to take Knowledge to the world, and he’d done that. The brother said, “Now it’s time for You.” Maharaji said, “huh?” and his brother repeated that that their father had asked Maharaji to take knowledge to the world, and he had done that, and “Now it’s time for You.” Maharaji responded, “huh.”

Speaking of changes, Maharaji also wondered why he wore a suit and tie, saying it would be more comfortable to dress casually. (I’ve always wondered about that —why do he and the top brass want to emulate and reflect the cold, competitive, corporate environment? Granted, suit and tie have become global symbols of professionalism, but why do something that’s so unenjoyable when it’s not necessary? Don’t we all hate wearing nooses around our necks? Why perpetuate the pretense?)

He closed saying that a lot of people hadn’t had a chance to say anything, but there would be another chance.

When he left the stage the atmosphere in the hall could be described as balmy bhakti. Some people were weeping, some falling into each other’s arms, some sitting quietly, and some practically floating off the floor.

No doubt San Francisco is now in the Good Graces. From an open floor of 500 people, nothing negative was said. Premies had had the chance to talk to Maharaji. New premies who may not have known who Maharaji really is, now know, for it was declared. And a good time was had by all.

Go! Go! Goooooooo San Francisco!

--GB

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Date: Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 03:38:19 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Interesting....He's up to something
Message:
Might be just trolling for funds. He sure is putting on alot of these $100 jobs lately. Is a note due on his boat or something?

I get the impression these 'events' are a little more than that however. Reminds me of a Christian Hyme, 'Bringing in the Sheep.'

I always enjoy your posts,
Thanks for that,
Tonette

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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 18:01:14 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: No! That's not a cult }) [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 23:53:03 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Jeezum Crow!...$$$$
Message:
It was a great report. Sounds like a gopi festival to me with the ''hint'' that now it's time for HIM to have his rewards???!!*)@#*()$$$

What more, I ask, could Maharaji, in this earthly creation, evolution, whatever the hell it is, now want? More possesions?

I am waiting, not for Godot, but for someone to take Jim's encouragement and truly embarrass his well, ASS!

Thanks Joe...Yikes!

B

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Date: Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 21:54:47 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Thanks lots
Message:
What a great report, GB! Thanks so much for taking the time to spell it all out.
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Date: Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 19:30:02 (EST)
From: such
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: SF: bhakti massa/doggy slave bliss!
Message:
now, tell me those hippies didn't drop way too many milligrams of LSD back when!
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Date: Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 17:09:20 (EST)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: Summary: San Francisco 'Appointment'
Message:
Aren't samrt cards and EV item, why would a non EV event use EV smart cards to get in? I am sorry I missed it (not)
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Date: Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 15:41:40 (EST)
From: Marianne
Email: MarianneDB@aol.com
To: All
Subject: Thanks Julian - CAC effects update
Message:
Julian, thanks for defending me when Bjorn showed back up on the forums. I do not speak to him at all anymore. I also saw that Pat and Gerry criticized him for what he's been doing to me, and I appreciate that.

Anyway, Bjorn has now threatened to contact the state bar and complain about me. This is after he sent emails to the San Francisco Public Defender's Office -- where CAC said I worked, and in fact I don't -- calling me a cyberstalker. These emails continued even after he was told I did not work there. Bjorn got the idea to write to these places from the CAC sites. That's where the email links appeared. The CAC site said that I had committed crimes and also claimed I am mentally unstable.

So fence sitting premies, please give some thought to this. The CAC sites have allowed this premie to wage a libelous campaign against me, and to threaten my reputation in the legal community. Do you really want to associate yourself with this type of behavior? These sites would never have shown up without the implicit or explicit blessing of Captain Rawat. The only reason I have been singled out is that I dare criticize Maharaji. Just how dangerous is someone who left DLM in 1976 when she was 20?

Marianne

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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 10:17:14 (EST)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Doing that in reverse is one of my actions. [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 03:36:03 (EST)
From: John McG
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Marianne, maybe we can...
Message:
...start an asylum together.

J

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Date: Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 15:03:49 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: All
Subject: DONATIONS/DARSHAN/MORE
Message:
As I said below, last night I had a very long telephone conversation with a very well-connected 'questioning premie' who had read my posts on the Forum, and I guess got my phone number from directory assistance (second time this has happened to me in the past couple of weeks) (This 'questioning premie' is a very nice person who recalls who I am, but I couldn't place this person although the name is very familiar).

Actually, this person, I am certain, has crossed over into 'ex-land' and will probably be posting soon. This person is very smart and thoughtful, and will be a helpful addition to anybody thinking about getting out of the cult.

I liked what I was told by this person because it gave me a little better perspective on Maharaji, perhaps making me see some of the 'good' side of being involved with him. More on that later.

This person said that he or she has been reading EPO off and on for two years, has 'had it' with M and his organization, and although this person believes there is a 'Real' experience to be (rarely) gained from being around Maharaji, (the source of which this person cannot explain), that isn't worth the rest of the crap that it entails being a follower of M.

For one thing, this person agreed that to really be a devotee of M these days you have to be quite wealthy, and the majority of premies simply can't keep up financially. MANY are very in debt trying to do so.

Anyhow, this person was particularly appalled at how the 'big donors' are treated. Apparently, they get all kinds of perks, like close seats, and going to all kinds of personal parties with M, that ordinary premies, who don't have much money to donate, never get.

Two things were mentioned:

1) Apparently, after the Portland 'event' a few months ago, there was a 'big donor' fundraiser and Yoram Weiss & Co., with M giving his personal attention, obtained committments of $6.3 MILLION (US). Let me say that again; SIX POINT THREE MILLION DOLLARS......(US, of course).

[As an aside, does anybody ever ask where this money actually goes? Other than the lifestyle M lives, what, what, WHAT, does he have to show for it? Propagation is dead, hardly anybody is receiving knowledge, hardly anybody has even heard of Maharaji or knowledge, etc. What RETURN are these people getting on their donations? Does anybody ever ask that?]

2) Apparently, also recently, there was a BIG DONORS 'event' in Arizona at a very swanky hotel/resort for a weekend. People were specially invited. To even go to the event, the cost was $5,000 PER PERSON. Let me say that again
FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS PER PERSON (US), just to GO, and then much more money was pledged.

AND, at this Arizona EVENT, Maharaji mingled with these BIG DONORS and, guess what, he had them line up and kiss his feet. YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST FOLKS, we thought maybe Maharaji wouldn't dare engage in that activity in North America, and would try to hide it in a remote enclave in Australia, but no, that little ritual is happening in good old Arizona, with the 'speaker' who has banished all the old HINDU RITUALS, who is NOT GOD, not THE LORD, and just a mild-mannered, rich, meditation instructor.

But I keep coming back to:

WHAT THE HELL DOES MAHARAJI DO WITH ALL THAT FUCKING MONEY????

I just want to add, that I was very happy to connect with this person, somebody I would like to get to know just as someone who seems like a person with a lot of honesty, integrity and courage. Despite the CAC-crowd, I think most premies fall into that category.

This person also mentioned to me that a number of people, whom I believed were of the most devout churchlady variety, are also 'questioning.' It appears people are leaving the cult in droves, or at least pulling back from involvement in the USA, just like John MacGregor also confirmed in Australia.

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Date: Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 19:12:34 (EST)
From: such
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: for $100 [cash only],u kin kiss ma feet!
Message:
LOL
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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 07:57:52 (EST)
From: salsa
Email: None
To: such
Subject: Re: for $100 [cash only],u kin kiss ma feet!
Message:
I'll do it for $50. ())
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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 14:18:48 (EST)
From: such
Email: None
To: salsa
Subject: ok, but just the right foot
Message:
wouldn't want to be 'sinister'... [Latin: sinistra]

ok, after all $50 is 50 bucks!! but, Toejamanandji [Kelly] refers to these poor lil ol' lotus feet as da smelly feet. so, for a measly $75 donation to my next appointment event [with darnedsham], I'll even wash the foot. for another $25 speaker donation, I can show you the mahamantra, or how to press your eyeballs and see light and swirling patterns w/o actually pressing them [quite a feat], or quote Kabir and Rumi copiously... suchadeal! hehehe

btw, we don't take American Express.

oh, I almost forgot which tarmac I parked my Piper Cub on...

jest kiddin', of course! Us lil' old swamis Never accept money or riches for revealing the universal energy within. If anyone is accepting money or wealth from his devotees, he is Not a true saint or master. -- Kabir Also, I prefer hugs to S&M or foot fetishes. hoho

Peace and lentils,

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Date: Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 16:57:29 (EST)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: There are no real expenses
Message:
Incurred by M directly. Every event is hosted by a community, and that community provides the financial resourses, or raids it's own coffers to accomadate all of the expenses.

As Richard indicated at San Diego, as hosting community they all got to sit up front.

Here again is a good example of he who puts up the most money gets the best seats, only this time it is on the collective group basis as a community. It looks different, but it is the same principle, money talks.

Whatever is collected at the door goes elsewhere and is not paid back into the community, they are left to fend for themselves and replenish their depleted capital reserves on their own.

Another case of revise, and disquise and hopefully cover tracks

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Date: Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 16:14:16 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Tell the IRS about the 6.3 million
Message:
And have them investigate the lifestyle of the RAWATS.

Why could a cult that lost 90% of its members claim that it is using their money for propagation. Where are the devotees.

Not only that, but Maha is giving clandestine programs. How much money did it cost to bring the FATFUCK from Malibu to San Diego. Yet people were told the cost was picked up, but the expenses required a cash donation of $100 per head. 500 x 100 = 50,000 + surplus donations from cultheads who were so greatful.

Have them read the forum. Show them the CAC files. Give them Bjorn's name as a person who perpetrated a hate crime against Marianne because deceived them their whole adult life.

PREMIES, get clued in. When you become an ex-premie, the reasons that validated your experience go out the window. WHY? Because Maha is a FRAUD, and Knowledge is a SCAM.

We know that, you don't. There is nothing inherently ungreatful about us. Please, do yourself a favour, and think for yourself, before it's too late.

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Date: Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 15:32:50 (EST)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Because he's got a big nut
Message:
Joe,

Maharaji has got a big nut to cover. It's mighty damn expensive taking care of all that Maya - family, girlfriends, brothers, servants, houses all over the world, boats, planes and a fleet of automobiles.

I think if Maharaji was smart he'd start selling more than just his feet. Hell, there's a huge market for human organs and bodily fluids. Gimme a tank full of Ethyl, will ya?

And don't forget Maharaji speaking at Long Beach 1995:

You know some people don't like rich people. They have this idea or that idea of what it is to be rich. But they really don't know. It's not easy to be rich. It isn't. Once you've made your first million, you need another to protect it. Then you have two million, and you'll need another two million to protect those two million. Then you'll have four million and you'll need another four million to protect those four million, and then you'll have eight million. Of course then you'll need another 8 million to protect those eight million and then you'll have 16 million... it isn't easy, it's not what you think.

What is it, Joe? You got something against rich people?

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Date: Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 23:29:40 (EST)
From: Lesley
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: That sounds like a recipe for bankruptcy
Message:
Get your first million, spend it
Then you need another million just to hold onto what you've bought into
and so on
Until the sources of available income can no longer accommodate the burgeoning greed. Problem, that.
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Date: Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 16:08:01 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Re: Because he's got a big nut
Message:
Hi Roger,

How are you? I obviously don't know what he does with all that CASH, but the cost of maintenance for all of the residences, all of the aircraft, all the cars, the kids, wife, mistress must be astronomical.

The insurance premiums per year alone must be hefty. Yet he wants more and more and more. It makes me puke.

It's time for him to get a job. Let him actually DO SOMETHING in his life for a change. He has no shame. He's, he's, I can't find words to describe how pathetic Maharaji is.

And he claims not to be the leader of a religion. His religion is COLD HARD CASH!

Be well Roger,
Cynthia

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Date: Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 16:20:50 (EST)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Re: Because he's got a big nut
Message:
Hey Cynthia,

I'm fine. Hope you are too.

Maharaji working a job! That would be too funny! I'd pay to see that. Don't forget that he told us not to bother with kollege, kareers or saving for retirement and instead to focus entirely on his knowledge. What a guy!

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Date: Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 14:49:19 (EST)
From: Be There Then
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Event in Los Angeles Today
Message:
There's an event today in Los Angeles at Universal City.

Registration is from 1 pm to 4 pm.

Event is from 5pm to 7 pm.

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Date: Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 18:06:14 (EST)
From: richmandrake
Email: None
To: Be There Then
Subject: If anyone wants to go..
Message:
that hasnt been invited I believe there was a Line for those without personal invitations at the San Diego Program. You will probably have to be vetted but if you are not a known Conspirator you can probably get a seat in the back..Still might be able to 'Talk' with McRawat. You might want to Bounce a check...and have a look see for yourself. What is the Venue in Universal City?...maybe the same one where he had a program in the mid '90s???
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Date: Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 15:07:54 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Be There Then
Subject: Add another $50K to M's pockets (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 16:06:58 (EST)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: Add another $50K to M's pockets (nt)
Message:
Maybe a premie on the way out should take an IRS agent to an event - just to see what goes on - it would be interesting.
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Date: Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 16:10:30 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Ben Lurking
Subject: And his travel and accommodations...
Message:
costs will be quite high, seeing he has to 'copter to the airport, jet to whatever freakin' airport he uses out of Malibu, and stay in his own mansion.

Creep

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Date: Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 09:32:18 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: correction:
Message:
he can drive or copter straight over to universal from home. he can park at burbank airport or van nuys.gee, what a choice. i can stay home and do laundry, i can go up to Hollywood to stand with the crowd singing their sentiments to George's passing, or I can stress myself out trying to get a bunch of snotty status judges to allow me into the presence of someone who doesnt give a damn for me.I did the laundry.
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