Ex-Premie Forum 7 Archive
From: Dec 05, 2001 To: Dec 12, 2001 Page: 4 of: 5


cq -:- FA - please read -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 13:09:17 (EST)
__ PatC (Asst FAb) -:- Which thread? -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 13:38:54 (EST)
__ __ cq -:- Goggles on ... -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 13:57:22 (EST)
__ __ __ PatC -:- Re: Goggles on ... -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 14:12:53 (EST)
__ __ __ __ cq -:- Re: Goggles on ... -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 14:20:14 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Hey, cq...re: locked thread -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 15:22:44 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- I emailed them to you [nt] -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 15:11:17 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- Thanks both Cynth and Pat (nt) -:- Sat, Dec 08, 2001 at 11:58:24 (EST)

berni -:- Tainted Love -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 06:21:25 (EST)
__ Loaf -:- Re: Tainted Love -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 06:51:20 (EST)

Brian Smith -:- My one year anniversary here today -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 05:19:00 (EST)
__ Deborah -:- Thank you, too Brian [nt] -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 15:29:18 (EST)
__ __ DeProGramAnandJi -:- Re: Thank you, too Brian -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 21:05:57 (EST)
__ __ Cynthia -:- To: Brian... -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 15:34:11 (EST)
__ PatC -:- It was a very good year -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 13:48:14 (EST)
__ wolfie -:- it means what it says -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 09:25:24 (EST)
__ JS -:- nice heart felt post, Brian... -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 08:29:34 (EST)
__ __ Carl -:- You captured it: Rawatism in a nutshell -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 14:57:17 (EST)
__ Loaf -:- awww.... -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 05:38:15 (EST)
__ __ berni -:- Well Said Brian -:- Sat, Dec 08, 2001 at 07:18:00 (EST)

Loaf -:- Embarrassment -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 04:11:27 (EST)
__ Ben Lurking -:- It was a cult -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 15:27:22 (EST)
__ PatC -:- Bellbottoms and guru buttons -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 04:20:46 (EST)
__ __ Cynthia -:- I wore guru necklaces())())()) NT -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 11:27:08 (EST)
__ __ __ PatC -:- Guru necklaces? -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 13:53:26 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Re: Guru necklaces?? -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 14:54:59 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ dEpROgRAmANanDjI -:- Re: Guru necklaces? -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 21:16:19 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Re: Guru necklaces? No thanks -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 15:14:44 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Re: Guru necklaces? No thanks -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 15:31:17 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- I kept a Xmas card from Rawat for... -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 15:53:05 (EST)

suchabanana -:- letters to Santa [partially ot] -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 01:52:30 (EST)
__ Wolf Blitzer -:- ho-larious (nt) -:- Sat, Dec 08, 2001 at 01:32:54 (EST)

SC -:- Cat and I are finished! -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 22:56:10 (EST)
__ Deborah -:- Didn't know you two were an item -:- Mon, Dec 10, 2001 at 21:21:51 (EST)
__ cq -:- This MUST be another cult, no? -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 14:41:46 (EST)
__ JohnT -:- David Roupell is finished alright! -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 04:48:52 (EST)
__ __ The Cat -:- Re: David Roupell is finished alright! -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 04:54:02 (EST)
__ __ __ JohnT -:- You too! -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 05:01:33 (EST)
__ __ __ __ CW -:- Re: You too! -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 06:23:24 (EST)
__ Tami Sunshine Rainbow -:- Yu tel them -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 00:14:51 (EST)
__ __ Pauline Premie -:- You can say that again Tami -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 00:24:45 (EST)
__ __ __ Loaf -:- my fave quote -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 06:39:22 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Jethro -:- Let it all flow -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 08:49:48 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Loaf -:- Re: Let it all flow -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 10:15:28 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- How about..... -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 12:21:26 (EST)
__ __ __ Deborah -:- You're fuckin hilarious -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 00:34:40 (EST)
__ McDuck -:- Re: Cat and I are finished! -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 23:02:43 (EST)
__ __ SC -:- Aw comon McDuck! -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 20:36:55 (EST)
__ __ PatC -:- Re: Cat and I are finished! -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 04:06:39 (EST)
__ __ __ SC -:- Aw comon Pat! -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 19:52:21 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Catw -:- Re: Aw comon Pat! -:- Sat, Dec 08, 2001 at 04:14:19 (EST)
__ __ __ The Wild Cat -:- Re: Cat and I are finished! -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 04:51:01 (EST)
__ __ __ __ anti CULT patrol -:- ^^^ CYBERSTALKER THREAT!! ^^^ [nt] -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 05:04:19 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ WHooP Whoop -:- PULL OVER DRIVER!!!! -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 06:26:51 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Welcome to Woop Woop - OT -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 14:03:44 (EST)

JHB -:- Guru Puja -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 18:15:26 (EST)
__ Dit Mitchkoff -:- Re: Guru Puja -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 19:13:11 (EST)
__ __ Deborah -:- Well that was funny [nt] -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 20:50:22 (EST)
__ __ JHB -:- Thanks, Dit -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 19:30:19 (EST)

cq -:- So just WHO is responsible for this ??? -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 14:50:35 (EST)
__ gerry -:- Shit happens, but... -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 17:50:04 (EST)
__ Loaf -:- Re: So just WHO is responsible for this ??? -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 15:50:29 (EST)
__ __ such -:- space cadets -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 16:29:35 (EST)
__ __ __ such -:- more space cadets:some real flamers -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 16:31:40 (EST)
__ __ __ __ berni -:- Space Cowboys - warning -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 16:43:57 (EST)
__ Francesca -:- I'm with you, cq [nt] -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 15:41:04 (EST)

Inside Edition -:- -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 00:20:37 (EST)

gerry -:- Free Anti-Virus Software (OT) -:- Wed, Dec 05, 2001 at 19:03:29 (EST)
__ Chuck S. -:- More Free Anti-Virus Software (OT) -:- Wed, Dec 05, 2001 at 19:56:20 (EST)
__ __ Jean-Michel -:- Check eSafe antivirus also -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 10:50:43 (EST)
__ JHB -:- Re: Free Anti-Virus Software (OT) -:- Wed, Dec 05, 2001 at 19:06:40 (EST)
__ __ gerry -:- read it again, John -:- Wed, Dec 05, 2001 at 19:16:31 (EST)
__ __ __ JHB -:- I did but the link don't work [nt] -:- Wed, Dec 05, 2001 at 19:21:55 (EST)
__ __ __ __ gerry -:- Try this -:- Wed, Dec 05, 2001 at 20:13:20 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ such -:- but I don't do windows [nt] -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 16:20:16 (EST)

Moley and Nige -:- So which festivals were you at? -:- Wed, Dec 05, 2001 at 17:52:42 (EST)
__ Bryn -:- Pontryfendagai? and Harrogate field! -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 04:30:37 (EST)
__ __ Lesley -:- Re: Pontriddythingummy -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 15:09:35 (EST)
__ such -:- Strawberry Fields: Toronto, 1970 -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 03:00:34 (EST)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Regional Retreat in the Poconos??? -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 11:49:21 (EST)
__ __ __ Pullaver -:- Re: Regional Retreat in the Poconos??? -:- Sun, Dec 09, 2001 at 19:26:47 (EST)
__ __ __ Poconose Retreat -:- homemade tape -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 13:48:56 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Suzanne -:- Maharaji's Poconos bitch fest -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 14:23:22 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Re: Maharaji's Poconos bitch fest -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 15:12:12 (EST)
__ Richard -:- Re: festivals -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 19:22:42 (EST)
__ JHB -:- Does GBBF count? -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 18:13:21 (EST)
__ Joe -:- First and Last -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 17:33:58 (EST)
__ __ Joy -:- Walking Out -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 07:09:48 (EST)
__ __ gerry -:- Re: First and Last -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 18:09:51 (EST)
__ __ __ Deborah -:- Millenium was your Last? -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 20:54:12 (EST)
__ Ulf -:- festivals list -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 17:09:36 (EST)
__ Mickey the Pharisee -:- Re: So which festivals were you at? -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 16:16:55 (EST)
__ AJW -:- Best Festivals. -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 15:05:02 (EST)
__ Tonette -:- One too many. nt -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 02:49:27 (EST)
__ __ berni -:- too many too many too -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 16:20:48 (EST)
__ __ __ Pullaver -:- Re: too many too many too -:- Sun, Dec 09, 2001 at 20:02:04 (EST)
__ __ __ berni -:- Vunderfull Copehhagen -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 17:20:49 (EST)
__ PatC -:- Do one night stands count? -:- Wed, Dec 05, 2001 at 19:54:11 (EST)
__ __ Brian Smith -:- First and Last -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 17:02:33 (EST)
__ __ __ PatC -:- Oops! Forgot Oakland 98 -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 17:57:12 (EST)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Foggy Memories.... -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 12:20:37 (EST)
__ __ __ Moley -:- Gawd - I forgot about chit chat -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 21:12:37 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Re: Gawd - I forgot about chit chat -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 11:15:39 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Loaf -:- Me too.. I forgot about chit chat -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 03:55:41 (EST)
__ __ Tonette -:- To Pat Conlon OT to above thread -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 03:46:02 (EST)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- To Tonette... -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 12:04:17 (EST)
__ __ __ Barbara -:- Hey, Tonette -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 11:36:21 (EST)
__ __ __ PatC -:- I don't understand, Tonette -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 04:46:17 (EST)
__ __ __ __ PatC -:- PS Okay, I read your other posts... -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 05:29:03 (EST)
__ __ Loaf -:- Fossils... its the new stuff that counts ! -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 02:59:49 (EST)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- Re: Fossils... its the new stuff that counts ! -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 18:57:38 (EST)
__ __ __ wolfie -:- by his grace -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 06:30:41 (EST)
__ __ __ wolfie -:- -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 06:28:19 (EST)
__ __ __ PatC -:- Fossils! Thanks for nothing -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 04:58:16 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Loaf the overgrown chicken -:- Re: Fossils! Thanks for nothing -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 11:27:28 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- No shame in being suckered into cult??? -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 21:00:22 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Loaf -:- None at all -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 03:11:11 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- I DIDN'T say I was GUILTY -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 15:44:05 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ wolfie -:- no creditcards accepted -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 12:39:19 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Loaf -:- influences... -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 13:15:42 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Brian Smith -:- M is the baby, the bathwater is the Cult -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 17:42:59 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Loaf -:- Re: M is the baby, the bathwater is the Cult -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 03:50:34 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Who are what was the plug, Grasshopper? -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 04:09:33 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- PS Should be Who or what... -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 04:17:44 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Loaf -:- Re: PS Should be Who or what... -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 05:48:30 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Maha is 5 yrs. older than you -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 15:13:12 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Loaf -:- It is the plug of faith Pat [nt] -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 04:13:57 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- No Grasshopper, nor is it a buttplug -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 04:23:40 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Loaf -:- You speak wise words oh Patanand [nt] -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 05:31:16 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ berni -:- Re: influences... -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 16:36:30 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Loaf -:- thanks bernie -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 16:57:21 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jean Valjean -:- R -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 17:18:00 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Victor -:- now Jean [nt] -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 10:34:05 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Hello, Jean... -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 18:44:37 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jean Valjean -:- Re: Hello, Jean... -:- Sat, Dec 08, 2001 at 18:40:51 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Loaf -:- welcome jean.. and thankyou -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 17:56:16 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ berni -:- never really 'sold out'.. I bought in -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 17:11:47 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Loaf -:- Re: never really 'sold out'.. I bought in -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 18:18:44 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- At least some of our bliss... -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 14:07:16 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Loaf -:- Re: At least some of our bliss... -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 15:44:44 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- I understand, Loafie -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 16:27:46 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Loafie -:- whats a kvetch ?? -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 16:34:22 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- It's what yentas do -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 17:58:25 (EST)
__ Joe -:- British Premies at Kissimee -:- Wed, Dec 05, 2001 at 19:39:44 (EST)
__ __ AJW -:- Re: British Premies at Kissimee -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 15:16:45 (EST)
__ __ __ SULLA -:- What a smell for business! -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 12:36:25 (EST)
__ __ __ __ AJW -:- Re: What a smell for business! -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 17:56:26 (EST)
__ __ __ Joe -:- Prostitution/Drugs at Kissimee -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 15:22:41 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Sulla -:- Re: Prostitution/Drugs at Kissimee -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 13:20:18 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Whoa, Sulla -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 14:45:17 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Francesca -:- Re: Prostitution/Drugs at Kissimee -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 15:37:55 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Barbara -:- 'Stealing at the 7-11' -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 15:29:19 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Christ...Was I Naive... [nt] -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 15:26:35 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Cynthia, please... -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 15:31:21 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Christ I am gullible.... -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 16:40:44 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Barbara -:- LOL...I hear ya [nt] -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 15:30:28 (EST)
__ __ Moley -:- British Premies at Kissimee nightmare -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 09:21:44 (EST)
__ __ __ wolfie -:- dancing all night long -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 11:46:37 (EST)
__ __ __ __ such -:- r.e. costumes -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 03:09:06 (EST)
__ __ Pullaver -:- Kissimmee -:- Wed, Dec 05, 2001 at 22:17:38 (EST)
__ Joe -:- Come on , you can do it... -:- Wed, Dec 05, 2001 at 18:34:44 (EST)
__ __ Nigel -:- Hmm... -:- Wed, Dec 05, 2001 at 18:55:44 (EST)
__ __ __ AJW -:- That's funny Nigel. -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 16:07:48 (EST)
__ __ __ __ berni -:- Re: That's funny Nigel. :LOL -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 16:40:13 (EST)
__ __ __ Moley -:- Christ - did he want to get into my knickers?? -:- Wed, Dec 05, 2001 at 19:01:23 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Vicki -:- Loss of Memory -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 16:55:43 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Vicki -:- Re: Loss of Memory -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 10:06:48 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- I'd forgotten about the Pasadena dos -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 13:30:57 (EST)


Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 13:09:17 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: All
Subject: FA - please read
Message:
Gerry, (or whoever's FAing at the moment)

I've just gotton online after work (and a visit to the dentist).

I posted a thread last night and would like to read the posts responding to it. However, it appears that, for some reason unknown to me, the thread is not only locked but NO POSTS IN IT CAN BE READ!

What's up?

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 13:38:54 (EST)
From: PatC (Asst FAb)
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Which thread?
Message:
I thought Gerry may have locked a thread but I did not find any locked threads.
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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 13:57:22 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: PatC (Asst FAb)
Subject: Goggles on ...
Message:
Hi Pat

Which thread? Time to dig out your reading specs, dear.

(it's the one 6 down with the lock symbol at the front of it, titled 'So just WHO is responsible for this???')

http://www.hotboards.com/plus/plus.mirage?who=gl&id=5763.7773747011126

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 14:12:53 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Re: Goggles on ...
Message:
But I have only had one cup of tea so far this morning, Chris. Also I can still read the messages and you said you could not.
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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 14:20:14 (EST)
From: cq
Email: quartus@postmaster.co.uk
To: PatC
Subject: Re: Goggles on ...
Message:
Aha! you can read them?

Unfortunately for me (online at Durham University), the locking process appears to render them invisible. Maybe the firewall causes a problem?

In the circumstances, perhaps you'd be good enough to email the responses to me at the address attached? (I haven't seen any of them yet).

And as to the locking of the thread - maybe Gerry's post might go some of the way towards an explanation. Naturally, I'd like one.

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 15:22:44 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Hey, cq...re: locked thread
Message:
I was unable to read the locked thread with Netscape, but in IE, I was.

Happens with netscape sometimes...

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 15:11:17 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: I emailed them to you [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Dec 08, 2001 at 11:58:24 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Thanks both Cynth and Pat (nt)
Message:
Thanks both Cynth and Pat (nt)
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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 06:21:25 (EST)
From: berni
Email: bernee@flashmail.com
To: All
Subject: Tainted Love
Message:
Hi peeps,
I was going to post something with the heading 'missing Maharaji' or something ( at least people might read it in the chance of a good flame ) and then explaining that I didn't really miss him, but missed the good times going to those festivals and socialising with all the premies.
However chatting with Loaf and thinking back I am not sure that I miss as much of it as I thought. I know what you mean Loafie when you say
'I AM GLAD that I had a blast following M round the world.. and going to places I wouldnt otherwise have made it to.. Glad that I met some wonderful premies and travelled by plain, train and automobile as one of the travelling bandidos.. it was an inspiring and wonderful time of my life.
.... it was as close to heaven as I could have imagined'

I remember those feelings too; it was amazing to think that you were part of such a cosmic happening as the creator/preserver/destroyer inviting you to help him/her/it save the universe - but that was only for a few hours on a good day ( not to mention being as unreal as being high on drugs ). The whole blissfull experience thing was tainted with trying to follow the rules e.g. no chit-chat, constantly remember holy name, no wasting time on anything but service satsang and meditation - there was no room for fun or self expression, and it was definitely detrimental in forming normal relationships with your fellow human beings.
You had to be operating within premie guidelines ( or at least giving the appearance of doing so ). If we found ourselves enjoying a film or a good meal then we were 'in our heads' - unless we could somehow justify it to ourselves that it somehow related to 'the path of knowledge'.
Constantly trying to understand what the ever-changing rules were was enough to stress anyone. The worst thing was that the fun was dying to come through - meeting all those great people and travelling to those countries would have been perfect if not as a member of a religious cult.
If only Maharji had been truly non-religious and only trying to get people together to inspire each other rather than get inspired by him. Then we could have just had a good time on a genuine journey of self discovery and fulfillment. I guess there have been movements like that but we are all such suckers for a charismatic? leader offering eternal bliss.
berni
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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 06:51:20 (EST)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: berni
Subject: Re: Tainted Love
Message:
I remeber all the 'being in your head' stuff.. and that was horrible, but as I had come to K and M from a very discipling, intense, guilt ridden yoga/meditation school... It didnt worry me too much... especially as (for me) by the time the honeymoon new premie period was wearing off.. i was just too happy to care too much and Knowledge lite was the order of the day.

Certainly by the mid/late 80s his message had changed to being very easy going.. practice when its best for you... dont stress about it... blahh blah

So, all in all I missed out on the heavy shit.

I read it though... and listened to those beautifully named PMTs for hours, in fact for years I thought M's voice had a natural 1 second echo.. 'So... dear premies.... here we are again... in Rome....'

I am probably blamking out a lot of the shit... but not for propogational reasons.. just cos i want to keep hold of my own feelings. I still like them.. and I dont want to forget why I got involved in the whole thing at the start... cos it felt right.. just as being an ex feels right to me now.

Its all about survival.

Loafie
x

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 05:19:00 (EST)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: All
Subject: My one year anniversary here today
Message:
It has been exactly one year today since I discovered the forum and made my first post.

It was a 29 year long and winding road that got me here, not all bad road, there were good times shared and fond memories made along the path.

I still have those, but euphoric recall is no reason to stay trapped forever in a spiral of deception.

The road I traveled in on was a fairy tale just like in the Wizard of OZ, only I just didn't know it then. I did not even know that I had a chance an option of finding my way out of the fairy tale.

I am thankful for the day I discovered that the yellow brick road of premiedom has an accessible off ramp and it is called the internet via EPO and the Forum.

I know that m says you can get out any time, just walk away, he also says we are not in a cult as well. He can call it what he wants but once throughly embedded in the juju journey it is not quite so simple as all of that for some of us to just abruptly leave it behind.

It takes serious effort and work to reclaim ones soul and independence, fearless self examination and objective review of important facts pertinent to m and the cult to break free.

Information that ordinarily would not be available were it not for the help and support of other former cult members who have survived the ordeal and/or process of exiting.

There is no other place that I know of today where this can be accomplished quite so throughly as right here.
It worked for me anyway, and it is a hell of a lot cheaper than theraphy.

I am just glad that I showed up here when I did, at first as a cult apologist, now today as a complete and committed carrier of the cult free message.

Many thanks to all of the contributors here who with your honest, intelligent and inspired dialouge have helped me to overcome what would have surely been a lifelong affliction affiliated with a false master and cult.

You have made this last year one of the most remarkable and productive periods of my life, and this is just the beginning, I hope that we will share many more years of awakening together.

Many Thanks
Brian Smith

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 15:29:18 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Brian Smith
Subject: Thank you, too Brian [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 21:05:57 (EST)
From: DeProGramAnandJi
Email: jsflynn@aol.com
To: Deborah
Subject: Re: Thank you, too Brian
Message:
GREAT POST WELL SPOKEN
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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 15:34:11 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: To: Brian...
Message:
Congratulations! Gawd, that year when by fast, don't you think?

I just wanted to pipe in here to tell you how much I enjoy your input and welcome you to your second year of real living.

It gets better and better.

Love,
Cynthia

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 13:48:14 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Brian Smith
Subject: It was a very good year
Message:
I met you and a bunch of other wonderful people whom I hope to know for many more years.
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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 09:25:24 (EST)
From: wolfie
Email: None
To: Brian Smith
Subject: it means what it says
Message:
Hi,

it sounds so differnet to that kind of thankfullness premies express to M. Here it is more real, not superficial.

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 08:29:34 (EST)
From: JS
Email: None
To: Brian Smith
Subject: nice heart felt post, Brian...
Message:
Brian-

In many ways my journey and quite a few others have occurred at the same time as yours, and been quite similar to yours as well.

EPO was certainly the major factor for me, along with the time being right, and one too many drips locally from the 'industrial strength church ladies' in my community.

Also, being able for the first time to really be able to listen objectively to m's talks, and realize how, to my surprise, so much of them were filled with strategic one liners to squelch, rather than address, peoples sincere questions.

I finally began to see how, contrary to my belief that m just 'spoke the truth' (what we used to call satsang), his rambling talks were filled with little zingers to keep the premies in line, marginalize his critics,encourage followers to NOT listen to their hearts (just the heart that follows him),imply that he was the lord through coded words and messages,and deny any responsibility for his irresponsible past.

It really is great to be able to speak honestly about all of this as we all deconstruct the past with m, and hopefully learn a lot about ourselves along the way.

Thanks for your posts.

I am sure they have been helpful to many people in similar situations.
They have been for me.

Happy Holidays,

Jim S.

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 14:57:17 (EST)
From: Carl
Email: None
To: JS
Subject: You captured it: Rawatism in a nutshell
Message:
This is a great summary of Rawatism: 'his rambling talks were filled with little zingers to keep the premies in line, marginalize his critics, encourage followers to NOT listen to their hearts (just the heart that follows him), imply that he was the lord through coded words and messages, and deny any responsibility for his irresponsible past.'

Yep, all for the price of your discerning mind, your time and your money. Such a deal.

Cult-free for the rest of one's days is a daily celebration. Happy anniversary to all of us.

Best wishes,
Carl

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 05:38:15 (EST)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: Brian Smith
Subject: awww....
Message:
woo hoo !

Hooorah !

Yipeeeee !

Let the mighty cannon be sounded !

Unfurl the flags,,, and let the people see the mirth engine as it rises out of the rubble on its inflated bladders...

War is over !

Peace has broken out !

Sorry... getting carried away there.... I can feel a baby hurling festival coming on...

Wheel the baby Hurling machines in place.... load the babies... aim them at the pyramid of flowers...

And Hurl !

What fun.. nice to see you here brian. I would nominate you for Satguru of the week.. but last time we tried that (it was magiclara on recent exes) all hell broke loose in America... so I think it better if we just pranam towards an piece of fruit or summink.

Hee hee

Loafie (lost the plot) Hooorah !

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Date: Sat, Dec 08, 2001 at 07:18:00 (EST)
From: berni
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: Well Said Brian
Message:
You are not the only one who has found EPO and the forum helpful.
Of course in my day we had to break free on our own - but then we never really were free of the conditioning and the first forums helped achieve 'closure'
For crying out loud - I'm still tuning in to this place
Now that you have broken out from premiedom, I see that you are contributing a few cracking posts - which in turn I am sure will help the future escapees get their individuality back
cheers
berni
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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 04:11:27 (EST)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Embarrassment
Message:
Something has just struck me whilst reading the festivals thread below..... and I have a sneaking suspicion that maharaji would agree with me !

So much of the god-awful tatty kitch stuff that went on was a 1970s thing....

Dont you think the 70s were just plain embarrassing ?

The 60s had more of an integrity about it somehow, but the 70s strike me now as a decade that went to seed.. overdone, over blown...over BIG

It was a strange decade of poly-cotton, huge lapels, big hair, porn video mustaches (and that was the house mothers !) flares.... shudder !

The Festivals at Kissimmee and orlando and their ilk were so much a product of their time... I wonder if the people who were around pre Knowledge Lite (ie the 70s) have a much harder time with some of this stuff..

Deborah asked me below if I felt ashamed of being in a cult.. But it wasnt a cult (to me) when I was in it... its only become a cult since I left.

I am just lucky I guess that I never wore a HUUUUGE badge and was never filmed. THAT would be embarrassing, to see myself there with a horrificly beautific expression on my face... (((((Shudder)))))

I think the 70s were embarrassing though.

why I put this in its own thread.. i dont know...

bye

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 15:27:22 (EST)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: It was a cult
Message:
I remember when Ted Patrick was grabbing and de-programing people. I also remember after Jonestown either MD or someone else giving Denver premies 'advice' on how we weren't a cult in a community or hq meeting so we could 'deal' with our parents and friends. Of course we were in a cult.
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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 04:20:46 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: Bellbottoms and guru buttons
Message:
''I am just lucky I guess that I never wore a HUUUUGE badge and was never filmed. THAT would be embarrassing, to see myself there with a horrificly beautific expression on my face... (((((Shudder)))))''

Couldn't agree more, Loafie.

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 11:27:08 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: I wore guru necklaces())())()) NT
Message:
nnnn
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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 13:53:26 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Guru necklaces?
Message:
What the hell were those? Only in America type thingies?
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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 14:54:59 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Re: Guru necklaces??
Message:
Oh there were all kinds of necklaces....some we bought, some we made ourselves. Guys wore them too.

I still have one, you want it? It's a macramed necklace with a flat stone that has his face decoupaged onto it.

Yes, the 70s were wild LOL!

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 21:16:19 (EST)
From: dEpROgRAmANanDjI
Email: jsflynn@aol.com
To: Cynthia
Subject: Re: Guru necklaces?
Message:
Thats funny but i have to disagree it's nostalgia of that era that I remeber that most fondly. Like Brian said in another post euphoric recall, remembering the good times while repressing my awareness of the bad. Still I like the bell bottoms, the long hair, incense flowers, yoga and tie-die. M did not however he all his new recruits cut their hair and dress in second hand suits remember? To be his little corporate DLM clones. So we wouldn't freak the parents out and so he could help to persuade them that he was helping us to escape the drug culture.
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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 15:14:44 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Re: Guru necklaces? No thanks
Message:
When one of the premies died here a few years ago I inherited all her divine tchotchas - buttons, notepaper, wallets etc all with His Holeyness' image on them. I quickly gave them to our local hippie hindu premie. Shudder.
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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 15:31:17 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Re: Guru necklaces? No thanks
Message:
Well, I was just kidding, Pat...I don't even know why I keep these things. Evidence, maybe. I also have many items that his fatso hands actually touched...they were industrial strength divine tchotchas to me at the time. And, I have his finger prints on one...LOL!

Love,
Cynthia, never a ''button wearing type''

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 15:53:05 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: I kept a Xmas card from Rawat for...
Message:
...25 years because it was addressed to me personally (when I was CC in Durban) and ''signed'' by His Holeyness himself (or so I thought - probably auto-signature machine.) I threw it out a year ago when I began to rid myself of all divine tchotchkas.
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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 01:52:30 (EST)
From: suchabanana
Email: banana@Santa.North_Pole.arc/tic
To: All
Subject: letters to Santa [partially ot]
Message:
Folks, well it's that time of year again, and Santa, the missus, and all the elves are way over-extended right now. Also, Santa's just finishing flight training on his new Gulfstream sleigh, and lots of elves have been literally slaving night and day to make it finally acceptable to his high standards.

So, in the absence of someone like Sally Reeder, I was requested to answer a sack of Santa's letters and respond to some of his more delusional wishful devotees. Santa did give some guidelines, however. He thought we should try a lil' honesty this year, rather than stringing some of these poor kids along and getting their hopes up falsely -- only to let them down once again and eventually turn them into a bunch of rotten cynical apostate eX-mas 'loosers'.

Anyway, here are a few samples:

Dear Santa I wud like a kool toy space ranjur fer Xmas. Iv ben a gud boy all yeer.
Yer Frend,
BiLLy

Dear Billy,
Nice spelling. You're on your way to a career in lawn care. How about I send you a freaking book so you can learn to read and write? I'm giving your older brother the space ranger. At least HE can spell!
Santa

Dear Santa, I have been a good girl all year, and the only thing I ask for is peace and joy in the world for everybody!
Love,
Sarah

Dear Sarah, Your parents smoked pot when they had you, didn't they?
Santa

Dear Santa, I don't know if you can do this, but for Christmas, I'd like for my mommy and daddy to get back together. Please see what you can do. Love, Teddy

Dear Teddy,
Look, your dad's banging the babysitter like a screen door in a hurricane. Do you think he's gonna give that up to come back to your
frigid mom, who rides his ass constantly? It's time to give up that dream. Let me get you some nice Legos instead.
Santa

Dear Santa,
I left milk and cookies for you under the tree, and I left carrots for your reindeer outside the back door.
Love, Susan

Dear Susan, Milk gives me the runs and carrots make the deer fart in my face when riding in the sleigh. You want to do me a favor? Leave me a bottle of scotch.
Santa

Dear Santa,
What do you do the other 364 days of the year? Are you busy making toys?
Your friend,
Thomas

Dear Thomas,
All the toys are made in China. I have a condo in Vegas, where I spend most of my time making low-budget porno films. I unwind by drinking
myself silly and squeezing the asses of cocktail waitresses while losing money at the blackjack table. Hey, you wanted to know.
Santa

Dear Santa,
Do you see us when we're sleeping, do you really know when we're awake, like in the song?
Love,
Jessica

Dear Jessica,
Are you really that gullible? Good luck in whatever you do. I'm skipping your house.
Santa

Dear Santa, I really really want a puppy this year. Please please please PLEASE PLEASE could I have one?
Timmy

Timmy,
That whiney begging sh!t may work with your folks, but that crap doesn't work with me. You're getting a sweater again.
Santa

Dearest Santa,
We don't have a chimney in our house, how do you get into our home?
Love, Marky

Mark, First, stop calling yourself 'Marky', that's why you're getting your ass whipped at school. Second, you don't live in a house, you live
in a low-rent apartment complex. Third, I get inside your pad just like all the burglars do -- through your bedroom window.
Sweet Dreams,
Santa
--

Merry Mithrasmas -- hohoho!

Peace and lentils,

da lil swami j. suchabanana

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Date: Sat, Dec 08, 2001 at 01:32:54 (EST)
From: Wolf Blitzer
Email: None
To: suchabanana
Subject: ho-larious (nt)
Message:
shmurfle
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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 22:56:10 (EST)
From: SC
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Cat and I are finished!
Message:
I had a team of willing pwk doing all night service reading and transcribing every post in the thread of Jim's err...'apology' to Katie.

The conclusion was already inevitable after only half were printed out for the committee to read.

Cat and I are finished, we cannot sum up this forum any better for the viewers than several people in the groundbreaking thread already have. The power of the message is much greater having come from 'non troll' computer terminals and we thank those people brave and honest enough to make their words and feelings known to the general cyberpublic.

It seems Catstrodamus has once again been proved correct in his predictions (LG late Nov).

The Committee will be assembling, collating and printing the majority of posts in this historical thread and circulating the result as a newsletter amongst the worldwide pwk community so that they can rest easy and sleep safely in their beds knowing that the storm of hate has abated and now flutters as a gentle breeze whistling through the willows overlooking the ambling river below the windowsill of time on which we sit.

Salutations to all great souls who fight for their truth!

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Date: Mon, Dec 10, 2001 at 21:21:51 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: SC
Subject: Didn't know you two were an item
Message:
Maybe you'll get back together some time. Think Positive.
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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 14:41:46 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: SC
Subject: This MUST be another cult, no?
Message:
It's got all the hallmarks - exes always backing each other up and never disagreeing?

PS, sarcasm doesn't always travel well via the written word, so, to make it clear, here's a big ;)

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 04:48:52 (EST)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: SC
Subject: David Roupell is finished alright!
Message:
Yes David,

You are finished alright. It's all just fluff and bluff with you, just lies and maya as it is with your fraudulent god-in-a-bod Rawat.

You dare not do a damn thing because you cannot be sure that things you have said here (your abuses; your cyberstalking; your filthy misogyny; and your depraved impersonations) -- you cannot be sure that these, now traced to you, will not surface to utterly discredit anything you have to say.

It is funny, very funny, but in that respect you are just like your fake friend in the head, Prempal Rawat of Malibu, the fraudulent messiah. Like him, you are a man who has discredited himself by his own words and conduct. Now you and he count for nothing.

You'll see.

JohnT
- never a premie

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 04:54:02 (EST)
From: The Cat
Email: None
To: JohnT
Subject: Re: David Roupell is finished alright!
Message:
Aw gee John . That is just so so heavy. Have you ever thought of having a colonic irrigation...
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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 05:01:33 (EST)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: The Cat
Subject: You too!
Message:
No Pussy,

I know you'd only want the irrigation as charnamarit, now you've realised what a fool I've helped make of your Master.

JohnT
- never a premie

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 06:23:24 (EST)
From: CW
Email: None
To: JohnT
Subject: Re: You too!
Message:
I'm on vacation Dickhead.
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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 00:14:51 (EST)
From: Tami Sunshine Rainbow
Email: None
To: SC
Subject: Yu tel them
Message:
Thanks, SC,

Thos x-primis ar so wikked and meen, ispecali Jim. Bee sur to send mi a cupi uv yur noosleter. It wilbee gud and so sincronized. Yu wil sho them. Itz ubut tym. Thos x-primis cunt hirt Mirage. HAHAHAHAH.

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 00:24:45 (EST)
From: Pauline Premie
Email: None
To: Tami Sunshine Rainbow
Subject: You can say that again Tami
Message:
It's just so beautiful to see premies like SC really exposing the hate that these ex-premies sadly wallow in every second of their miserable existences. They just don't have that understanding or that experience, and you can just see them rot in their own juices. SC really showed them this time. Disagreement among the ex-premies! Finally the smoking gun! SC is just so intelligent and it shows.

Yes, black and white proof that these monmots disagree among themselves, something PWKs never do, who are experiencing the most supreme love, which, while it has not been the vibration that is God since 1986, is the supreme breath of happiness, flying right up their noses. They are always just so loving to each other, because of that love, that truth, that peace, that experience and that gift, which is that breath, which is that life, and that gratitude we feel for Maharaji for giving us the experience of that appreciation.

I was so fortunate to go to the Appointment Event in Los Angeles recently. It went on for two hours, and it was so beautiful, but I really had to go to the bathroom, but the grace of Maharaji was with me, and just like in New York a few years ago, when Maharaji left, and although I knocked over David Smith trying to get out of the hall, I was fortunate to find a potted plant in the entrance area and by his grace I did not wet my pants.

I do think I splattered some onto the Pascottos, and maybe on to the big-eating Frenchman, as I squatted in the plant though, and for that I am truly sorry, but we were all blissed out so no one cared. They did escort me out of the place, but they weren't mean about it.

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 06:39:22 (EST)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: Pauline Premie
Subject: my fave quote
Message:
as recounted by the ever faithful Bryn davies...

spoken by an Indian type mahatma circa 1974 in response to a query...

'By Grace of Almighty Lord, in Palace of Peace there are Many Toilets'

It says it all doesnt it !

Loafie
(in that rhythm which is F7)

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 08:49:48 (EST)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: Let it all flow
Message:
You reminded me of the time Irene Hall was speaking at Kensington new Town Hall. She was describing that wonderful experience when she said that she went to the loo and that experience just began to flow.

She really didn't get it when people started to laugh.

Of course we all really undrestood that it was Maharaji coming thru her.......she was an initiator(or instructor) then so it must have been him!!!

Hmmm think I'd better go now.

Jethro
PS ever seen 'Erik the Viking', a lesser kniow Monte Python film?

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 10:15:28 (EST)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: Re: Let it all flow
Message:
Yes I did see Eric the Viking once... many years ago... cant remember much about it.

Irene Hall and her double entendres definitely rings a bell.

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 12:21:26 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: kevjo@mindspring.com
To: Loaf
Subject: How about.....
Message:
A couple of months after a progam in the Pocono Mtns of Pennsylvania M had a 'birthday party' at the Shriners Auditorium in LA. One of the Initiators, might have been Brian McDermott said:

'Maharaji really touched me deep in the Poconos, and I know he will touch me deep in other places as well.'

I cracked up so much I had to leave the hall.

Attention Danny Munter: Do you remember, I was sitting next to you in the hall at the time? Must have been December, 1977. You thought it was funny, too. Are you an EV Monitor of the Forum now? Email me in between stock trades and we can talk.

Joe

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 00:34:40 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Pauline Premie
Subject: You're fuckin hilarious
Message:
I'm so gald they weren't mean about it! ha ha ha ha ha

Pauline, you had me worried about your true gender when you mentioned leaking in the potted plants but iWhew! you mentioned squatting, and my worst fears were relieved.

I'm also relieved to hear about your relieving story, as well.

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 23:02:43 (EST)
From: McDuck
Email: None
To: SC
Subject: Re: Cat and I are finished!
Message:
So David, you'll be adhering to your wisdom expressed on LG: 'So many people I know believe that ignoring the internet chatrooms is the best way. Not so much to make them go away but so that we can have a super time in our lives without the headache of worry over those who choose a different path.'?
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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 20:36:55 (EST)
From: SC
Email: None
To: McDuck
Subject: Aw comon McDuck!
Message:
You know I only follow orders.

And you know they're constantly changing.

So don't hold me accountable.

I certainly don't !

It's my belief that genuine detachment and disdain of internet chatrooms has lead the Reichstagge to perceive me as a very useful and successful operator.

Simply because SC has NO PERSONAL AGENDA.

I believe that's why I constantly receive new briefs.

Can you show me ANY 'ex' person who carries that kind of water pistol into this forum?

There's sure ain't one here. It simply isn't possible due to the very nature of the forum and the reason it exists.
There's no greater power than no axe to grind.

I used to slip up occasionally, of course, but they've trained me well. I don't make mistakes anymore, every shot counts. And yes, Mr John Tuckerbox, you are right, I am now being attacked in the same way that Prempal Rawat is attacked.

That point is not lost on the viewing audience!

Comprende?
(no - Mr 'never a premie' would see that one fly right over his bald patch I'm afraid)

I don't blame the Reichstagge for using me, and let me assure you that they do NOT send me here to annoy you discoverers of the real heaven on earth (F7).
That's just wishful thinking from the lonely attention seekers.

No, I am sent here for those readers who do not necessarily agree with F7's perspective of the universe. Contrary to popular fantasy, they have as much right to be here as anyone else, so does any other cybersurfer. Totally closed forums are a plenty on the net. Why isn't this one of them? We all know don't we?!

So, in a nutshell, amongst this vast viewing audience SC has become a legend in his own cyberlunchbox. When someone replies to SC they usually know they're replying to hundreds of people.

SC - but a humble mouthpiece....

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 04:06:39 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: McDuck
Subject: Re: Cat and I are finished!
Message:
Yes, McDuck, David's posts on LG have been very good lately. He can be a halfway decent chap when he is being straightforward and honest as his creatures, Cerise, Marolyn, SC, CW et al never were.
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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 19:52:21 (EST)
From: SC
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Aw comon Pat!
Message:
I've always been a decent chappie as CW!

mioaoooww puuuuurrrrrr

:)

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Date: Sat, Dec 08, 2001 at 04:14:19 (EST)
From: Catw
Email: None
To: SC
Subject: Re: Aw comon Pat!
Message:
Delusions of grandeur!!A Cat is never one to engage front on. We cat's like to size up the situation...THEN POUNCE!!The weasel was revered by many tribes of the America's.Legend had it that this creature was able to infiltrate the very heart of enemy tribes. Me? I have no enemies. Unless they declare themselves so. And a big cheerio to Anth, Jim, Deb and you Pat.....Gotta go...Rats to kill...
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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 04:51:01 (EST)
From: The Wild Cat
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Re: Cat and I are finished!
Message:
Once and for all Pat .Stop being a fucking moron. I am not anyones creature.You wear your guile like cling wrap.I find SC amusing at times, but be warned. We are very different propositions.
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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 05:04:19 (EST)
From: anti CULT patrol
Email: None
To: The Wild Cat
Subject: ^^^ CYBERSTALKER THREAT!! ^^^ [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 06:26:51 (EST)
From: WHooP Whoop
Email: None
To: anti CULT patrol
Subject: PULL OVER DRIVER!!!!
Message:
Ah ,er ah..Was that you Beavis? I think this dork is callin the cops..
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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 14:03:44 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: WHooP Whoop
Subject: Welcome to Woop Woop - OT
Message:
If anyone wants to understand the nether regions of Aussie humor, I recommend that movie starring an aging but hilariously disgusting Rod Taylor (who played the handsome Mitch Brenner in Hitchcock's 1963 ''The Birds.'')
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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 18:15:26 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Guru Puja
Message:
Hey, I've just realised we went to festivals called 'Guru Puja', which I was told meant 'Guru Worship'. Now if Maharaji is just a meditation teacher, why would he countenance festivals being called Guru Worship?

John.

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 19:13:11 (EST)
From: Dit Mitchkoff
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Re: Guru Puja
Message:
John,

In the early days, like prior to 1996, it was weird because the followers of Maharaji were spiritually immature and literally forced Maharaji to do things that look like adulation. But what do worship and adulation really mean anyway? Who is to say? It's all relative. I mean some say that people worship their dogs, or Jewish mothers worship their sons.

And hey, the adulation that happened at those festivals was really no different than the adulation I feel for the Japanese guy who blows the leaves out of my driveway; at least that's my wife's opinion. Also, things like Guru worship have gone the way of platform shoes and 3-button suits. Believe me, they really have.

Plus, as explained by my good friend, neighbor and business associate, Andrea Erickson, who, as seen by her life, children, husband and personal habits which she exhibited prominently on the internet, is way too successful, cool and sophisticated to be in a cult, people in India are really, how shall I say it, backward and ignorant about these things. I mean, look, Andrea and her husband plan to retire early to Wales. People like that are not stupid, you know.

As such, those Indians have really screwed up and outdated ideas about words like 'guru' and 'worship.' Hell, they worship everything over there, including cows, statues and strange syrupy deserts. You really can't judge Maharaji by those cultural misunderstandings coming from such a regtrograde place, like an exotic plant, and planted into our modern, advanced culture. Maharaji has worked his fingers to the bone saving us from all those ignorant Hindu concepts.

I'm sure that explains everything, but if it doesn't, just keep in mind that I'm a really cool guy, so cool in fact that I tolerate the fact that my wife follows some other master, other than Maharaji. Hey, I'm a thoroughly modern premie, so tolerant and liberal in my thinking about everything. See, like Andrea Erikson, I couldn't possibly be in a cult either. I remember distinctly thinking how un-cult-like someone like me is, as I was standing in the darshan line down in Amaroo. It's just so synchronized to be without all those exotic-plant-like Hindu rituals. Thanks to Maharaji, you can be too.

As you can see, this is a work in progress. If anyone can think of anything to add to this, please email me at:

DitMitchkoff@pleaseconsiderthisandnotthat.com

If you hurry, you can also email Elan Vital, while they still exist, at:

ElanVital@wearenotacult/wereallyaren't.org

Yours, in synchronization and completely out of my box,

Dit Mitchkoff

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 20:50:22 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Dit Mitchkoff
Subject: Well that was funny [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 19:30:19 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Dit Mitchkoff
Subject: Thanks, Dit
Message:
Thanks, Dit,

I think I understand, and I'm currently amending www.ex-premie.org to include a FAQ on the first page. Questions will include 'Is Maharaji the Leader of a Cult?', 'Does Maharaji own Knowledge?', 'Is Knowledge Free?', 'Why don't we just move on?' and 'Who is Maharaji?'. Thanks for giving me your email address as I'm sure you will be able to help me write proper answers to these questions.

John.

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 14:50:35 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: All
Subject: So just WHO is responsible for this ???
Message:
Responsible for what? you ask -

responsible for the culture of blame around here.

Must be Maharaji.

P.S. Bye, Katie and Tonette. Hope it's only a temporary farewell. This place needs common sense, and your posts have always had plenty of that increasingly rare commodity.

I think this Forum needs you more than some contributors might think.

Shame there's consequently going to be less of it around here from now.

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 17:50:04 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Shit happens, but...
Message:
I wished I'd locked the thread early seein' as how things turned out. I was horse's ass fer not doin' it, and I take the blame square.

Goddernit Jim et al, it just ain't worth hurtin' folkses feelings like that. Now we lost Tonette who was a valuable player and a nice person, too.

And I ain't gonna jaw about this any longer, neither. This mess of a thread is now officially hog-tied and over.

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 15:50:29 (EST)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Re: So just WHO is responsible for this ???
Message:
nice

spacing !

x
nogbad

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 16:29:35 (EST)
From: such
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: space cadets
Message:
http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lac/cm143/sc2.html
[ http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lac/cm143/sc2.html ]
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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 16:31:40 (EST)
From: such
Email: None
To: such
Subject: more space cadets:some real flamers
Message:
http://www.memagazine.org/contents/current/features/scadets/scadets.html
[ http://www.memagazine.org/contents/current/features/scadets/scadets.html ]
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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 16:43:57 (EST)
From: berni
Email: None
To: such
Subject: Space Cowboys - warning
Message:
Don't go and see that movie - it's truly awfull, I think Clint Eastwood must have gone senile to make it.
I know it's OT but if I can save someone 2 hours of their lives then it's been worth it.
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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 15:41:04 (EST)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: I'm with you, cq [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 00:20:37 (EST)
From: Inside Edition
Email: None
To: All
Subject:
Message:
Joe,
In answer to your question below, 'who is the Malibu Mob?', I have a few guesses as well.

Valerio Pascotto - EV psychologist, Training facilitator, deals with Jagdeo victim(s).

His brother,
Alvaro Pascotto - Attorney (tax and aviation specialist - gee what a coincidence).

Alvaro's wife, Linda Pascotto - EV 'Human Resources' chief.

Tim Gallway - Training facilitator, provides gold credit card for Jagdeo victim(s) to fly to meeting with Valerio (at least in Abi's case).

Jean-Marie Bonthous - EV PR chief, Training facilitator, source of multiple PR team defections.

Ira Woods - Head of Mahatmas (not sure if Ira actually lives in the Holy City of Malibu, but most of the others do).

Any other candidates?

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Date: Wed, Dec 05, 2001 at 19:03:29 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Free Anti-Virus Software (OT)
Message:
This seems to be a fine German made software. It downloads in about 15 min at 56K. They don't send out update notices, however, so you have to keep checking their websites. I've made it my start page with all this junk floating around the net these days.

free anti virus software

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Date: Wed, Dec 05, 2001 at 19:56:20 (EST)
From: Chuck S.
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: More Free Anti-Virus Software (OT)
Message:
There are some downloadable programs there.

I use and old version of E-Trust. The new version is can be downloaded and used for free for 60 days, after which time you can buy it for $19.95 if you like it. It has a yearly renewal of $19.95 too, but most of the antivirus software is going by subscription now.
[ Tim O'Leary Anti-Virus Site ]

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 10:50:43 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Chuck S.
Subject: Check eSafe antivirus also
Message:

[ eSafe AntiVirus ]
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Date: Wed, Dec 05, 2001 at 19:06:40 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Re: Free Anti-Virus Software (OT)
Message:
But Gerry, you haven't told us what this software is!

John.

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Date: Wed, Dec 05, 2001 at 19:16:31 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: read it again, John
Message:
You guys are quick! The link didn't show up because I forgot to give it a name.
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Date: Wed, Dec 05, 2001 at 19:21:55 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: I did but the link don't work [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Wed, Dec 05, 2001 at 20:13:20 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Try this
Message:

[ finally I think I got it right sheesh.com ]
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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 16:20:16 (EST)
From: such
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: but I don't do windows [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Wed, Dec 05, 2001 at 17:52:42 (EST)
From: Moley and Nige
Email: Moley@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: All
Subject: So which festivals were you at?
Message:
Nige: Was Jim at Kissimee? Was Joe at Rome, '78? Was Joy at Malaga.? Was Katie at Houston? Was brother CD at Lingfield racecourse, '79? Did your lives change for the better? Did you see more Light from thereonin? Garner more understanding?

Were you a scummy pleb in the crowd like me or, dare I suggest, in some cases, even spouting from the stage - heaven forbid? (Mike, Mike or Mike..?) Or maybe playing in the band? (Hi Fran!)

We just thought it interesting to find out who was where in which year. Which fire and brimstone or devotional bollocks did you submit your impressionable young minds to?

And did we perchance unknowingly meet up in the granola queue? (whilst summoning up the inner courage to - under intruction - go begging other premies for our 'registration' cash? - now THERE'S a whole other thread..)

Moley: Talking of granola - I smuggled a suitcase full of the bloody stuff into the States for the 1979 Kissimmee extravaganza (no cash for food- as usual)... But I am getting ahead of myself... 'Events' I went to, in chronological order, with salient comments..

1977: March, Wembley,U.K. First time I saw the Godhead in the flesh. Sitting on a throne, above a mountain of flowers. Jesus, come again - or so I 'experienced' as a tender young aspirant. I've NO idea what the f**k he was talking about - but that was never the point (as Joe said it below!)

Bloody Hans Jayanti, Rome Nov 1977 - I've NO clue what Rome looks like... but have a dim memory of walking past seriously historic monuments, and ignoring them completely. 6 days on an ancient double-decker bus to get there and back.... all travellers semi-hysterical by end of journey.

Dortmund Sept 1978 - the biggy i.e. HOLY BREATH. 3 week old baby - sleeping in an army tent cos of lack of funds. Again - haven't a bloody clue what Rawat was talking about.

1979's a blur - some crap in Malaga involving water canons, and the infamous Lingfield race course - thick smog - premie marital arguments overheard from next tent... and

Kissimee Nov 79 - Rawat in BAD mood on first night... and me thinking 'bollocks, I've in ested me life-savings to comed here'... then Rawat on some primitive cart in Krishna costume.... Oh It's too painful to go on....

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 04:30:37 (EST)
From: Bryn
Email: None
To: Moley and Nige
Subject: Pontryfendagai? and Harrogate field!
Message:
I tremble to remember the two above travesties! One was I think to celebrate Raja ji's birthday. At the other we queued to have darshan from a life-size photograph. I was that soldier.
love Bryn
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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 15:09:35 (EST)
From: Lesley
Email: None
To: Bryn
Subject: Re: Pontriddythingummy
Message:
Was that the one in a field in Wales which Babagwanji turned up to instead, much to our disappointment.....I spent a lot of time digging up thistles with a kitchen knife.
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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 03:00:34 (EST)
From: such
Email: None
To: Moley and Nige
Subject: Strawberry Fields: Toronto, 1970
Message:
500,000 people -- we totally Rocked!

er, maybe you mean one of dose guru puja [translation = guru worship] Nuremburg rally-style love-in fests.

so, kissimmee awweddy [smooch smooch] hehehe

Lessee: acted in a play, sang and was sitting on da stage at Millenium for 3 days in between David Anderson and Mike Nouri about 20 feet from the Lord of the Universe, performed at Orlando, made it to a bunch of Miami Jackie Gleason Convention center guru worship love-ins and spray-painting in the Orange Bowl, Hollywood, Philly [I skipped out as best man at my buddy's wedding - which, as a premie then, he understood], Oakland, bunch of Long Beach events, Tucson, Amherst [where I practically got kicked in the face by a chunky foot as it passed by on the back of a passing vehicle - that was the darshan line], and Kissimmee, etc. etc. etc. [+ traveled to see miragey at scores of programs over the years (too many to recount here or remember them all) + various big parties at the Malibu residence]

I remember quitting a band so I could make it to one festival, selling my awesome stereo to buy a ticket to another, accepting cash instead of car repairs for a car accident caused by a premie - so I could attend another fest, traveling to Tucson with a crazy lady in a VW van that had wheatgrass and sprouts growing on the floor, having my passport photo taken with a Krishna t-shirt on before Guru Puja in London, literally standing in the middle of the airport runway with my suitcase all night at Orlando - waiting for a chartered plane to show up, driving cross-country from LA to NY non-stop in 3.5 days with 3 other premies and a screaming lil kid named Jasmine - and then missing my flight to Europe, reeling in shock as marji gave his famous Long Beach drip shatsang about doubling and redoubling his millions again and again etc. - 'it's not easy to be rich', and programs like the inane 'dung beetle' shatsang at Pasadena, etc.

btw, When I got to Kissimmee, I took one look at the concentration - er refugee - camp facilities and hightailed it over to the nearest motel - where some premie brothers were kind enough to let me share the floor space with a bunch of other people for only $20-30. Then I met a really sweet sistah from Melbourne named Sharyn, and we 'shared' a lot and ____ed our brains out all week after each evening event. Boy, that was sure better than celibacy! (I almost moved to Melbourne afterwards to marry her, but thought it would keep me too far away from miragey, etc.)

I remember dancing late at night en masse with da Krisha marji at Kissimmee, Omassa giving some heavy scary satsang, and the countless raised arm sieg heils - er, bolie shri satrugu devs - shouted in allegiance and obedience to OMassa. Remember, this was only a year after the Jonestown cyanide koolaid incident -- and that night I kept thinking, 'Geez, if anyone else showed up here who wasn't a premie, they'd think we were in some kind of bloody crazed fascist cult!!'

hahaha

yes, dose memories... [oy vey, now you've triggered one of them flashbacks -- aiuto! caramba! sacre bleu! ouch!]

Peace and lentils,

PS speaking of flashbacks, some premies were pulling m. around on a chariot -- shades of Ben Hur or Caligula. "Luva me! Nuper ab bige transcursus sum." [trans.: "Help! I've just been run over by a chariot."]

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 11:49:21 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: such
Subject: Regional Retreat in the Poconos???
Message:
Gee, Nigel and Moley,

This thread has awakened my foggy memory a lot! I've remembered so many more programs that I attended.

In the northeast, 1976? 77? we had a regional retreat that included Connecticut, Boston, Philly, New York City, all the upstate New York premies, and other smaller eastern communities. It was held on the campgrounds in western Pennsylvania--near Scranton--the Poconos.

Lots of initiators were there, it was a huge regional retreat. All of the famous local premie bands played (not our little Hartford one) and on the last day, on Sunday afternoon, Maharaji helicoptered right into the site with no notice. I remember all of sudden hearing those copter blades and the sun was in the western sky and as the copter got closer, it was a total blow out bliss-a-rama.

He came and gave satsang, blissed everyone out beyond the beyond as we used to say, and then left.

We were all packed up and ready to leave, I was still with my premie boyfriend at the time. On the way home we stopped at a restaurant and the waitress asked us if we were newlyweds (our shining eyes)LOLOL! (The Poconos area is/was a big honeymoon spot where they have champaign shaped tubs and heart shaped beds)!!! LOLOL My boyfriend abruptly said 'NO we're not married.'

I just remembered that retreat--a surprise visit from the Lerd.

The accommodations, btw, at the camp, were less than nice, dirty cots, etc.

Anyone remember that one?

Cynthia

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Date: Sun, Dec 09, 2001 at 19:26:47 (EST)
From: Pullaver
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Re: Regional Retreat in the Poconos???
Message:
Yup. I was there and remember Raja Ji was there and was giving periodic reports supposedly about the level of devotion to margie to encourage him to come. This was during the 'where there is devotion the lord will come' phase. Anyone remember that? Now it's just 'where there is money I will come'. I remember Brian MacDermott was giving satsang or just gave satsang, the gist of which was 'I don't care if anyone else wants marjie to come, I want him to come'. When the helicopter approached I remember the pandemonium breaking loose and the spontaneous chants of bolay shri . . . I was on my knees, ecstatic of course. I remember hanging with a British premie (gopi) from London with flaming red hair and freckles named Jane, can't remember her last name . . . anyone know who I'm talking about and where she might be nowadays?
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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 13:48:56 (EST)
From: Poconose Retreat
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: homemade tape
Message:
of an orgasmic Indian Bai screaming as Humpty Dumbrowski Ji arrived in a helicopter...the tape then has fatso's satsang about the trouble he went thru getting there

There was another East Coast event the following year at same VENUE with the hope and rumor of an encore arrival of pimple puss. He was a no show but I remember we would be woke up each morning by a loud speaker saying 'Good Morning and welcome to another day in Guru Maharaj Ji's world'. My constantly yapping mind was quick to point out how this was like Orwell's 1984.

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 14:23:22 (EST)
From: Suzanne
Email: None
To: Poconose Retreat
Subject: Maharaji's Poconos bitch fest
Message:
I wasn't at the Poconos, but it was 'phone fed' to the rest of the known world I think. Either that, or we heard a tape later.

Anyhow, Maharaji arrived, the premies swooned, and M proceeded to bitch about how difficult it was to get there, and about how he was told the ride from the airport would be 30 minutes but it was really 45. He was very put out. This is a clear example of how M could say anything and people who are predisposed to think he's God, would think it was great.

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 15:12:12 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Suzanne
Subject: Re: Maharaji's Poconos bitch fest
Message:
I don't remember one word he said. I do remember saying how it did take him longer to get there.

Gee, 15 minutes late and he gets pissed off. Well, he has his VERY OWN helicopter now, and still he bitches...

What an idiot.

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 19:22:42 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Moley and Nige
Subject: Re: festivals
Message:
Festival Highlights

First: Guru Puja 1972 Montrose, Colorado
First time I saw the SatGuru (see link), first service -photographer, first darshan and holy breath -blew my freakin' mind. A truly lovely experience. It was transcendental, man.

Hans Jayanti 1972 Delhi - Jumbo D from New York. A personally transforming trip from the standpoint of seeing how the other 90% of the world lives.

Millennium 1973 Houston, Texas - much ado about nothing.

First US Holi 1974, Key Biscayne - Was photographer for Divine Times and sat on stage where I shot M with silly string and got so blasted I momentarily regressed to an infant in diapers. (I'm serious, I was thrown beyond the three worlds.)

Rome 1977 - I walked over to the Vatican and was standing outside St Peters. Everyone started looking at me, or so I thought. I turned around and they were really looking past me at the Pope who was on his balconey.

The Kissimmee festivals where I did Darshan Recovery. At the last one, I stood directly opposite M to help the big guys haul out the disambulatory premies. Quite a show. Krishna in the Ferrari was a drip.

Holi in Miami, peaking at the big Orange Bowl orgasmic extraveganza. I'll never forget the looks on the oldtimers' faces as we sauntered back looking like tie-dye gone awry.

Last one was 1997 Long Beach. Huge drip. M said it was all about my experience. Everything else said it was about devotion to M.
[ Another acid head for the SatGuru ]

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 18:13:21 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Moley and Nige
Subject: Does GBBF count?
Message:
I've also been to the Norwich Beer Festival twice, The Pig's Ear Festival three times, and the Crystal Palace Home Brew Festival four times. The latter took place in a scout hut and was to raise money for the scouts. Selling beer was of course illegal without a license, so the beer was free, but the program cost a few quid.

I've also got this vague memory of going to a racecourse and not seeing any horses, spending ten and fourteen days in a field in Florida, getting squirted in Marbella and Rome, and generally sitting in some hall listening to people drone on and on in Copenhagen, Dortmund, Essen, Rome many times, Paris, Geneva, Birmingham, Brighton many times, Miami (twice for Guru Puja), and once for his birthday party. I also saw him in Long Beach.

Strange times, but the GBBF was more honest.

John.

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 17:33:58 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Moley and Nige
Subject: First and Last
Message:
First was Guru Puja, London, 1973

Last was Guru Puja, Miami Beach, 1982

Seems like hundreds in-between, including Millennium, at least four Holi festivals, both Kissimees, Rome, Montreal a couple of times, several "birthday parties" (two in Miami, one in LA), Various in Denver, Tucson, Philadelphia, Portland, Orlando, Kansas City, Amherst, Toronto, Atlantic City, and Miami, Miami, Miami, Miami.

The big break came in December, 1982, when I decided I could not STOMACH the idea of going to Miami for M's STUPID birthday party, once again in the Miami Beach Convention Center. Believe it or not, I was still living in the ashram at that time. This seems like such a small thing now, but it was a BIG DEAL for me and all the premies I knew. They were praying for my immortal soul and I literally shook when I made the final decision not to go.

I remember I stayed in San Francisco, in the ashram all by myself. It was heaven. March, '83 moved out.

Later in 1983 Joy, I, and some people from our ex-cult group (both ex-Moonies, I think) went to see M at Chabot College. We sat in the balcony, ate bagels, and made comments. Remember that, Joy? I'm sure today we would have been kicked out, or not let in at all due to our questionable devotion.

In November, 1983, I went to Miami to visit friends and M just so happened to be doing an 'intro' program, which they didn't tell me about sooner for fear I wouldn't come. They talked me into going. M took questions from the audience and he was absolutely nasty and obnoxious to people. Even the premies I was with were put off by his arrogant behavior. What was even more insulting was that people weren't allowed to leave until M had "left the building" like he was Elvis or something.

That was it, until one time in 1990, I went to another intro event a couple of blocks from my office at the San Francisco Marriot. [Joy had I think gone with Richard to a program in Vancouver, called me up and said I should go in SF because it was "hysterical."]

That's when I walked out in the middle of M's insulting talk about how stupid and screwed up the 'people of the world' are. Considering his messed up life, I figured he had no business making comments on those of others. The ga ga looks on the faces of the premies I saw as I walked down the aisle on my way out creeped me out. It was so clear they thought he was God. I went home and took a shower.

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 07:09:48 (EST)
From: Joy
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Walking Out
Message:
Hi Joe. Now that you mention it, I do remember going to that Chabot College
thing as probably the last full program I went to with M. I wonder what
became of those two ex-moonies, they were nice people.

I think going to a program with eyes wide open (after reading the Forum, or
being a fence-sitter) can be a really good thing. Helps to make the final
break. I recommend it for all fence-sitting premies, but only if you tell
yourself beforehand you're going to listen to him with all your critical
faculties to see exactly WHAT he is saying.

That's what I did before going to that final one in Vancouver in 1990 with
my premie friends. I had been an ex for over 8 years at that point, but
thought it a good opportunity to go up to Vancouver and see an old
non-premie friend at the same time, and just out of curiosity with the M
program, I told myself I would try and keep an open mind and see exactly
what he was saying, if it had any meaning for me or made any sense.

The program was in the Pan Pacific Hotel. Fortunately, I had the last seat
in the last row (what premie would ever say THAT!) so it was easy to walk
out after five minutes. That was all I could stomach either, I could not
sit there another minute after I realized he had nothing to say, and his
arrogant, patronising tone of voice literally made me want to scream. It
was the arrogance that drove me out of there, I could not handle it at all.
I whispered to my friends that I'd see them in the lobby afterwards, and
spent the rest of the talk browsing the gift shops and having a cup of
coffee in peace and quiet.

It was a really liberating feeling to make a public statement, if not to the
premies who by and large couldn't see me walk out, but to Maharaji himself,
who no doubt could. It put the final seal on my involvement with him
forever and made me feel totally free. I highly recommend doing this.

Merry prankster idea: It'd be kinda cool if we all did it en mass, wouldn't it? Those who could get in, of course.

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 18:09:51 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: First and Last
Message:
Same here Joe, Guru Puja in London 1973 was my first, at that cold and muddy camp site. For me it wasn't much fun. Rain, cold, bad food, no compadres. I didn't know anyone except the 'sister' I traveled with from the Pittsburg ashram. Oh, I just remembered: to raise the festival money, I sold my half of the car my brother and I had shared for five years, a way cool 1940 Buick four door sedan. Grrrr.

The last festival I attended was Houston, the Millenium fiasco I never warmed up to the lad, couldn't get past his squeaky voice and the stupid things he said. He was a real let-down after some of the adult mahatmas, particularly Rajeswar. I returned to (relative) sanity some months after that program.

JSCA

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 20:54:12 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Millenium was your Last?
Message:
I didn't think exes went back that far? I met a couple in Victoria that recieved Knowledge and was turned off when they realized everyone idolized Maha. Lasted 2 months for them. Premies for 2 months. heh hee
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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 17:09:36 (EST)
From: Ulf
Email: None
To: Moley and Nige
Subject: festivals list
Message:
1975 Essen , my first festival i had k a few days before
this is where i first saw M , and got the Holy breath
all was sleeping togheter in a big hall , a lot of farts
but i loved it

1976 Montreal peace fligth , after the program all the premies
was walking down a main street in Montreal , i feelt we where
really showing the ``power of the love ``, when we was walking there
i remember shop owners comming outside their stores , to look at us all. i was so proud...

78 Miami ,,,orange bowl ?

78 Malaga ,, the bull figth arena ,, i was feeling the whole arena
was flying out into the space,,, there was 3 festivals in Malaga
around late 70`s ,, i was there to the all.

We where all dressed in white , coming for holy , it was soooo divine
bible feelings

M at stage with his water gun

Building stage i was

78 Geneva . do not really remember much

78 or 79 , Dortmund ,, rain mud water , i was there for building the stage , loved the trip.

79 Kissemee,, Oh it was so heavy satsang , he nearly killed me
and there was two festivals in Kissemee ,, I meet M when i was leaving
the place one day ,, just drifting away , then M came in his car , he looked me rigth in my face ,,, i felt bad , because i was leaving and then went back,,, good boy ,,,,,( i felt that he did not want me to leave , Oh well.....

80,, rome . shri hans festival , cant remember that much
But have still 4 hours of tapes here from that festival
and i tell you Devotion was everything at that time (western
mahatmas satsangs )
80- 82 miami ,,, orange bowl ,, lazer ligth ,? harakrishna people outside the hall ? Me outside giving satsang to the poor souls

Later it was : wembley Brigthon , lingfield ,,, I was building the stage. and many more ,, cant really remember.

My latest was Copenhagen 96 or 97 ,, just before epo

Over , And it is one two three , what are you figthing for
dont tell me that i aint ,,,,,,,,

cheers Ulf

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 16:16:55 (EST)
From: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: None
To: Moley and Nige
Subject: Re: So which festivals were you at?
Message:
My first festival was Hans Jyanti in Toronto, I think it was in 1974.
I was at Orlando Hans Jyanti (1975?), and I remember a festival in Montreal but I don't remember the year. I attended a birthday celebration on the Queen Mary in Long Beach once, too.
I really didn't spend enough time chasing after dem lotus feets!
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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 15:05:02 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Moley and Nige
Subject: Best Festivals.
Message:
Hi Nigel,

Best festivals I was at were Glastonbury 71 (helped build the stage) Glastonbury 95 (had a press pass), Lincoln 71 (saw Byrds) Elephant Fayre (80 something, John Martyn topped the bill), and the Eclipse Festival at Millbrook (£2.00 to go in, 5 great local bands).

Anth the festive.

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 02:49:27 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Moley and Nige
Subject: One too many. nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 16:20:48 (EST)
From: berni
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: too many too many too
Message:
Haven't got a clue of the dates as I was living the timeless life but I remember...
Guru Puja Ally Pally - 'Get out of your Mind' posters and Cuffley campsite where M said that people had the wrong impression of him because of the Rolls Royce 'But it's a really old one' he said and we all laughed.
Geneva where his face was projected onto a 50ft? high video screen and we slept in Nuclear fallout bunkers, although I did have some good times with Kanute - an inspired flute/sax/everything player from Blue Aquarius - who entertained us 'fringe' premies so well.
Rome many times - once getting so drunk during a night on the town that we couldn't find our hotel until the next day - and going back to the small hotel after Holi wet and coloured.
Essen Getting lost again without being able to speak German. Every time we asked the way back to Essen they thought we wanted food - we did look a bit thin.
Dortmund where we stayed with a family of former SS officers - pictures on the wall and a strange vibe.
Orlando the never ending Krishna costume/dance all night festival. Nectarel and frozen yoghurt were the highlights - oh and there was a small hurricane.
Miami where you could fry eggs on the pavement
Lingfield a day at the races
Houston Millenium peanut butter and jello, Hare Krishna's putting sand in the petrol tanks, astroturf, Bhole Ji's band and Eric Mercury who did a good set
Montpelier Strongest memories are the wild horses on the Camargue and some sort of circus tent.
Munichfollowed on from Montpelier where we got woken up at 4a.m by German police with machine guns who through us out of the hotel into 4ft of snow. Mind you there were 12 of us in a double room.
Wembley Brighton Leicester Birmingham Malaga ..... to many more to mention
Aaaarrrggghhh - What have I done with my life?
It's true that some of it was fun though I can't help feeling I should have been doing something else with my time and money.
berni
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Date: Sun, Dec 09, 2001 at 20:02:04 (EST)
From: Pullaver
Email: pullaver@yahoo.ca
To: berni
Subject: Re: too many too many too
Message:
Unless that was a common experience for premies in Munich - getting booted out into the cold nite by black leather jacketed SS-like cops- for sleeping too many to a room - I must have been in that room as well.
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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 17:20:49 (EST)
From: berni
Email: None
To: berni
Subject: Vunderfull Copehhagen
Message:
First reluctant Darshan due to peer pressure.
Mostly remember they have some really rude shops there.
>;->
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Date: Wed, Dec 05, 2001 at 19:54:11 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Moley and Nige
Subject: Do one night stands count?
Message:
What's the bet I'll recognize every single one of you from past festivals unless you've had a face-lift? Never forget a face.

1974 April: Copenhagen (two days and nights by train from London with no food or running water and three thousand screaming babies; Holy Family War - torn between Ashokanand and Prempal; get first darshan and go with Rawat.)

1975 July: Essen (sleep in campsite on Rhine run by the Nazi Nanny from Auschwitz, swim in Rhine - hair sticks in solid mass for two weeks, very embarassing.)

1976 May: Montreal (miss His Holeyness's last night's satsang because of being seduced by Gigo from El Salvador; feel like a rotten cabbage for weeks afterwards.)

1977 July: Miami (stay in Fountainbleu Hotel for two weeks with a bunch of Aussies with rugby players' legs and weird senses of humorand fall in love with USA.)

1977 November: Rome (get horribly constipated from catered food and after festival do the Vatican in 20 mins.)

1978 April: Malaga (nearly miss darshan because of Gigo; last person through still dressed in Holi paint-splattered clothes with some mud and...well this is a family forum.)

1978 September: Geneva (sleep on emergency stairwell of festival hall.)

1978 September: Dortmund (spend most of the time swimming in fancy pool with ten foot artificial waves.)

1978 November: Kissimee (spend most of the time in the communal showers with Gigo looking at Aussies with rugby players' legs.)

1979 January: Denver (too frozen to remember much - miserable and lonely as hell.)

1979 July: Miami (too sunburnt to remember much.)

1979 November: Kissimee (work in food service stirring pots the size of a Jeep.)

1980 January: Baltimore (too frozen to remember much.)

1980 July: Miami (have to catch a taxi back to hotel to get jacket as air-conditioning in hall too cold.)

1980 November: Rome (stay on afterwards for two weeks and fall in love with Rome.)

Ready to drop out but meet Chuck who wants K. Go to several local and LA events.

1981 July: Miami (ditto)

1982 July: Miami (ditto)

1983? July: Palm Springs (fabulous three days in swanky resort.)

1984? July: Palm Springs (ditto)

It becomes a bit of a blur here. I think I went to four festivals (Pimple's birthday bashes) in December in Los Angeles for about four years in a row between 1981 and 1984. Also in the same period rawat came to Bay Area several times for one night stands. Do they count?

Drop out till 1990.

1990 July: Miami

1990 November: Rome (EV books me into a sleazy hotel; thought I had an allergy to grappa but turned out it was bed fucking bugs.)

Drop out till 1994. I meet Andy who wants K; Rawat comes to Bay Area. Spend the next two years going to all the local and LA events.

Last festival: December 1997 in Long Beach.

I think I'll submit this to EV as my resume/CV to particiapte in a synchronized way.

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 17:02:33 (EST)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: First and Last
Message:
My first festival was Montrose July 72, my last Event was Oakland summer of 98. Pat are you sure you didn't attend that one? If so you were at my last event (even though it was just a one day thing.

In between all of that was Hans Jayanti India Nov 72 a grueling 5 week torture test. Others that come to mind are Millennium 73 Houston TX, Amherst MA, Kansas City Mo, (remember that huge grotesque Ship stage) Philadelphia PA, both the Florida Kissimee festivals, Tucson AZ, Denver CO, the numerous Miami and Orlando escapades including Holi. Numerous LA and Long Beach CA events plus many Pacific NW events in Seattle WA, Portland Or and Vanvouver BC.

At one point I traveled half the way around the world and far and wide to see M. He was here in my hometown last year, and I did not go, didn't want to go and would not walk across the street to see him today.

That journey in my life is over, I have finally come home

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 17:57:12 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Brian Smith
Subject: Oops! Forgot Oakland 98
Message:
Yes, that was my last one and even worse I told a former premie who had dropped out for 15 years about it and he went and now he is stuck back in the cult. Oy vey!
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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 12:20:37 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Foggy Memories....
Message:
My first festival was as an aspirant and it was the 1975 Hans Jayanti in Orlando? My last 'event was 1997? in Montreal.

In between I went to every one in the US and Montreal from '75 through '80. Went to both of the Kissimmee weeklongs. The first one was spent in a hotel and I felt too distant from the scene. The next one I was in a tent ) because I was doing Deca service. I am a modest person and hated the group showers and couldn't blow dry my hair. During the second Kissimmee, I spent most of my time in a trailer doing Deca service and making malas. Only break I got was during the fatass's speeches. And remembering not to chitchat was mind-numbing.

Never been to Europe. Glad I missed the Rome one in 77 or 78?? Yet what astounds me the most is the amount of traveling I did 'round our beautiful country and never saw anything but the inside of a fucking hall.

All have blurred together like a morning hangover--was I there? Did I? I went where? Said what? Saw whom?

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 21:12:37 (EST)
From: Moley
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Gawd - I forgot about chit chat
Message:
I remember that in the Kissimee era - bumping into premies you hadn't seen for months - dying to catch up on all the gossip - but censoring ourselves in mid-sentence....
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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 11:15:39 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Moley
Subject: Re: Gawd - I forgot about chit chat
Message:
I remember Maharaji saying over and over ''no chit chat only satsang.'' Talk about mind control.

He was so mean during that second Kissimmee thing ''I'll be driving around here, and if I hear one word of chit chat, well I don't know what's gonna happen.'' (Premies laughing nervously)

What a tyrant! I too had friends from Conn. that I would bump into who I hadn't seen since I had been transferred to Miami, and the GUILT about just talking to them and catching up...

Get a pit in my tummy just thinking about it...

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 03:55:41 (EST)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: Moley
Subject: Me too.. I forgot about chit chat
Message:
God i was priggish at times... even though this was years later at events I never wanted to socialise IF I was 'in THAT space'... and othertimes it was fantastic playful fun.. I remember having a great laugh with Guru Pat and BumphieJi and Bill Cotching in India..

It was a blast !

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 03:46:02 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: To Pat Conlon OT to above thread
Message:
Dear Pat,

I'll never forget you turning me on to the meterorite shower that magical night, nor all your replys to me which were so loving. Are you sure you're gay because I would be tempted by you. Anyway, I wanted to say goodbye. I don't have the time, nor the stomach for the forum. To understand my feelings and thoughts about the forum please read my response to Cynthia and Moley under the thread of Jim apologizing to Katie. You, I will miss. I'm still going to take you up on the offer of meeting. If you are ever in Wasdington, DC look me up please. We will have a good meal, some conversation, and wine and perhaps do you like to play cards?
Anyway, it's enough, I'll let the newly exiting PAM's and premies have space for posting. I don't think, BTW, that the PAM's are off the hook just by posting here however mislead they were. Look at Michael Dettmers, he blew in here, posted some, cleared his conscience and is gone. How has Michael used what he knows about Maharaji to bring the lard to justice? I guess he has too much to loose. Michael, gone like a theif in the night. Just like the guy recently, John MacGregor. Oh well, such is life. Some things aren't fair and Maharaji is one of them. Don't hold your breath (pun intended) on waiting for the cult to come to a screeching halt. Maharaji will some time, in the not too distant future, cut his losses. He's just going to retire. That's my take.
The forum is valuable and people will use it for what it is worth.
I am retiring to my life of raising children, loving my husband, earning income, preparing for the holidays, attending to my friends, and running my household.

You are a great soul Pat. I took this forum too seriously, got burnt and discouraged and now have to leave. Carry on with your general good nature and Godspeed.

Love, Tonette

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 12:04:17 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: To Tonette...
Message:
Tonette,

I read your posts below. Just as we were getting to know eachother you are leaving.:( When you made your post 'Jesus, Mary and Joseph,' I felt your frustration with the ongoing Jim/Katie thing. I hope it ends sometime in the near future, too, for everyone's sake.

I didn't like Moley's retort to you either. It felt like a slap in the face. That's her problem, I guess. I really don't know her and believe she doesn't like me much, but I don't expect everyone here to like me, and I'm learning not to care about that so much anymore. You didn't deserve that remark, though, and I do believe you are owed an apology. (I'm ducking, I may get flamed for this remark) :)

I have gone through many phases with the various forums here (fora?). I have often felt inferior to some of the highly educated folk here who can have discussions that blow right over my head. Yet I am who I am who I am, and I have things to say and will say them.

I have realized breaks from the forum are necessary, this place gets pretty heated. But there is something for everyone to contribute, and I've very much enjoyed your writings. You are a caring and kind woman. I feel very angry at Maharaji too. I also believe that EPO and the forum has assisted many more people out of the cult that we can imagine.

One thing about leaving the forum, Tonette, don't lock the door. Know that you are always welcome to return. You have a right to say what you want to say, just like everyone else. This isn't a club, it's a unique forum with individuals who are still working themselves out of the stupid cult. Anyone who thinks they have an elite position here is fooling theirself.

Also, please know that since I first started posting on F4, left, returned, left and returned again (more than twice), I have found that upon returning that despite many of my own shortcomings, temper tantrums, (and I've had quite a few) I have been accepted back.

If you want to email me, please feel free to any time: sylviecyn@yahoo.com.

You will be missed...take care of yourself,
Love,
Cynthia

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 11:36:21 (EST)
From: Barbara
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: Hey, Tonette
Message:
Hi Tonette:

I understand your desire to leave. Contrary to common opinion, words can indeed hurt almost more than a physical blow. I really can't speak for Michael Dettmers (obviously), but I did want to mention to you (so you won't leave with the wrong impression) that Michael has done quite a bit behind the scenes. He was able to have delivered to Maharaji a letter from Susan, among other things. Also, shortly before he arrived here, and when he first posted, MD took a serious amount of heat. If I remember correctly, what got him to open up was Rev. John Hammond-Smyth's sermon, which was hilarious.

One important fact to remember, which I'm sure you do, is that these guys were in a cult also. I dcout they were any more of a free agent in their head than we were in the midst of our association.

Ciao, Tonette

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 04:46:17 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: pdconlon@hotmail.com
To: Tonette
Subject: I don't understand, Tonette
Message:
I guess I won't understand until I read the post to Cynthia and Moley that you mention. Please email me or at least keep my email address since I don't have yours.

I've had to cut back on my time here because I put so many things on hold during this past year and now they are catching up with me. So, like you I need to spend more time on real life than here.

But you say you got burned. I guess I'll have to look and see what you mean by that. The only things, other than myself, that would stop me from posting would be if I got banned or had no computer. No one has that power over me and conversely no one has the power to coerce anyone into posting.

We don't know what former PAMs are up to when they are not posting. Also not everyone wants ''to bring the lard to justice'' and some of us think that it can't be done (except in the court of public opinion - here) and even if it could be done, don't have the wealth, time or stomach for it.

I really hope you will get in touch with me and I think it would be good to take a break and perhaps later take a look at the forum with a fresh perspective and a bit more detachment. It's not meant to be a chore but a pleasure. We don't owe anyone anything except to be happy and pay our way.

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 05:29:03 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: PS Okay, I read your other posts...
Message:
...and yes, I think you need a break. The forum really is not worth getting that upset over. I'm sure your family will appreciate having more of your time and I bet you have lots of things that you want to do for yourself too.

Part of what I remembered from your post to Cynthia is that it made me realize that the forum has role in helping some people exit but not all.

You mentioned all the people whom Rawat has harmed in one way or another. Some of them will figure it out for themselves and heal themselves; others may read EPO and/or the forum but never post and others are more sociable and like to mix it up with the bunch.

The forum will definitely not appeal to all exes or even be needed by them. It is not as important as EPO but it is fun and when it stops being fun then it's time to take a break.

I sure hope you will keep in touch and, if you need to talk this over with me, I'm willing.

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 02:59:49 (EST)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Fossils... its the new stuff that counts !
Message:
Rome 1982 - Darshan wow and screeching
manchester
Royal Albert hall
1983 - UK events and a few others.. I have lost all my ticket stubs in a fire - so I cant remember
1983 - Miami Convention centre (thats me on the pic with me tongue jammmed up my nose)in my dads shirt and tie (he died Nov 82).. I wasnt into clothes then..
1984 Lots of European events - Holi at the Orange Bowl Stadium Miami
1985 Lisbon, Madrid, paris, barcelona ....
etc etc lots of Miami, Fort lauderdale Webley/brighton Conf centre...
1990 I went mad... India,Paris, Berlin, Vienna, Zurich, Milano, lljubiana, Madrid, Dublin, Wembley, Copenhagen, Amsterdam.. Montreal, NYC, Philidelphia, Washington, Durham, Atlanta, Miami (relocated to palm beach), India again...was it 'Arise' in Rome that year ?
1991.. I think... was Holi in India, then later in the year Amaroo and Hans jayanti in delhi again and assorted other European progs.. cant find me old passport to check
1992 was India... was it Argentina Too ?
1993 was the beginning of the end...just UK events
1994 slowing down a lot... Brighton... erm.. erm... I started going to college though !
1995... erm... I didnt miss him in the UK, but I cant remember anything he said.. looking back, I really used to enjoy going to events. I didnt get 'oppressed' though... it was always a game. I guess what saved me was that I was crap at doing service.. I was a young pleasure/ darshan seeking missile, and that kept it fun.
I might have worn a suit but that was only to give the impression that I could go where I wanted to (and very often did !!) I remember..... oh here we go, I'd better stop before I start waxing lyrical about the Rejoices in Birmingham UK.. and then have to explain that I loved the feelings I had at that time.. and dont care if they were manipulated by a chain smoking despot... it was great !
Bye Maharaji, and thanks for all the fish.
[ Graphic Link ]
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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 18:57:38 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: Re: Fossils... its the new stuff that counts !
Message:
Hi Loafie,

I read all your posts and I support you in how you are feeling now.

I had wonderful, blissful experiences and it is sad it was all a big congame.

That's so hard to accept. Especially for premies who loved him so much. It is like a father that constantly says: ''you owe me, you owe me.''

When I read that in your post below I felt a lightbulb go off (again) because my bio-father was exactly like that. It's no wonder I fell into Maharaji's trap...if I believed in fate, I would say I was fated to be attracted to a fake.

But I won't try to comfort you except to tell you that I have felt sad the way you do. The loss is great when one believes someone to be the panacea to life, the LORD! THE LOSS IS GREAT!

But, pampering yourself, giving yourself the time to sit with you feelings as they are until you move on to the next step. Not like AA or anything like that, but the acceptance that Maharaji did take away real years from us. Our youth, our energy. At 48, I have quite a bit less energy than I did at 21, when I entered his world.

So just don't let anyone tell you how to feel, at the same time don't allow yourself to go too deep into the abyss of depression; it is a process.

You take care now,
Cynthia

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 06:30:41 (EST)
From: wolfie
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: by his grace
Message:
Hi Loafie,

thanks for your picture. What a divine glance in your face, and this wonderful cultic design in the outfit.

My first programm was Millennium, I was nearly paranoid.
Kophenhagen I gave my golden watch to M.
Essen
Dortmund
Hamburg
Geneva
Rome
Orlando
Kissemie
and so on
Amaroo 97 I started to smell the rat
my last one was Mainz 2001 as undercover agent
Now aspiring the next programm to tell M: ' I think you are a conman'
This would be an act for my emanzipation (spell?)

.....wolfie getting bored to remember all of this

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 06:28:19 (EST)
From: wolfie
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject:
Message:
Hi Loafie,

thanks for your picture. What a divine glance in your face, and this wonderful cultic design in the outfit.

My first programm was Millennium, I was nearly paranoid.
Kophenhagen I gave my golden watch to M.
Essen
Dortmund
Hamburg
Geneva
Rome
Orlando
Kissemie
and so on
Amaroo 97 I started to smell the rat
my last one was Mainz 2001 as undercover agent
Now aspiring the next programm to tell M: ' I think you are a conman'
This would be an act for my emanzipation (spell?)

.....wolfie getting bored to remember all of this

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 04:58:16 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: Fossils! Thanks for nothing
Message:
I remember you from Miami in 82! I was a hippy Californian with a tan and still had all my hair, teeth and waistline and, eventhough you were such a little chicken, wondered if you'd been to boarding school and knew the ropes. ;)

Just kidding.

You sure were a gopi.

In between festivals it was always hard work for me to get high but I'm glad that I persevered because the festival highs soon palled and I was left to my own devices for which I am grateful as I now see that all those highs came from me not His Holeyness. So I don't have to thank him for anything except teaching me what a scam gurujism is.

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 11:27:28 (EST)
From: Loaf the overgrown chicken
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Re: Fossils! Thanks for nothing
Message:
I am such a gung - ho enthusiast.. anything I do I tend to throw myself into wholeheartedly... so I AM GLAD that I had a blast following M round the world.. and going to places I wouldnt otherwise have made it to.. Glad that I met some wonderful premies and travelled by plain, train and automobile as one of the travelling bandidos.. it was an inspiring and wonderful time of my life.

Life was one long holiday... God only knows how I managed to stretch my credit cards that far.. and for so long... but I did.

I was running as fast as I could, away from all sorts of doubts and emotional issues, but for a while it was as close to heaven as I could have imagined...

but after enlightenment.. the laundry !

This phase of my life could not be more contrasting. I am burned out, lonely and tired.... but I am learning all the time. I dont know if I will ever come out of this one.. I doubt it somehow.... after many years of having him be my coach... urging me on, I dont think I am very motivated on my own - but it is a period of re-adjustment.. as ever.

All the best

Loaf

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 21:00:22 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Loaf the overgrown chicken
Subject: No shame in being suckered into cult???
Message:
Why?

Hi loaf, Don't think we've ever chatted. It's nice to meet you.

Doesn't it repulse you to know you kissed the asshole's feet and you liked it? Oh well, learn something new everyday. Are you sure you've dealt with the fact that this is a cult?

Sounds like you just changed your brand of toothpaste. ;)

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 03:11:11 (EST)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: None at all
Message:
Why should I be ashamed ? It is not my fault !

And there are worse things.... I did NOT abuse any children in my care.. I killed nobody... I am ashamed of some of my BEHAVIOUR - I , for many many years had very little emotional contact with other people.. my Gratitude was Hijacked.. so I never really got to tell my father that I loved him (which I did) - and I took the kindness of strangers on many occaisions, and gave thanks to Maharaji in their place.. but why should I be ashamed ????

Deborah.. I wasnt even a high powered honcho wreaking havoc... I was insensitive sometimes.. self important, parsimonious, priggish and smug, but I wasn't a Nazi. I did no war crimes. I was sweet and desperate for the feeling, and the truth... God knows what YOU got up to if you feel so guilty...i think you need to sort your attitude out if you want to BRAND and BLAME people or to disrespect Indian culture.

All is well.. and I LOVED Darshan !

Loaf

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 15:44:05 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: I DIDN'T say I was GUILTY
Message:
Loaf,

I said that I felt shame for being duped. Thinking that Maha was a Perfect Master and surrending the reins of my fuckin life to him, is, how shall I say it, the stupidest thing I ever did. Not to mention, that I informed everyone I knew prior to that ridiculous event about my newfound fortune. I decided that it wasn't worth it to keep in touch with these great people since THEY didn't understand.

I am VERY clear that it was not my fault.

I suspect that you have never read my posts, but if you haven't, how would you have such lucid insight to inspire the following advice.

'I think you need to sort your attitude out if you want to BRAND
and BLAME people or to disrespect Indian culture. '

I have fairly BRANDED this is a cult and I don't BLAME Indian culture for Maha being a cult leader.

And for your information, I have sorted it out, I am going to sort Maha out as well.

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 12:39:19 (EST)
From: wolfie
Email: None
To: Loaf the overgrown chicken
Subject: no creditcards accepted
Message:
come on Loafie.....if you have streched your credit cards too much...this can bother me too. Lost time is much more worse, lost money you can get back, but lost time?????
He was your coach? I would question this. He coached us with subtle fear. I can't believe that your time as premie was free of things that bother you now, maybe the way we surpressed them was different. I like to dream, to think and do nothing and I call it meditation and it's good as a good sleep and sweet as a good dream. It helps me, we tried so many times, but did we really or was it some thing because he told us. No I'm not so stupid. We have done a lot of good stuff and what we have learnt we have learnt whith M, or without him.

Take care......wolfie......Jesus died, Buddha died, M has do die and I feel I have to die too.

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 13:15:42 (EST)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: wolfie
Subject: influences...
Message:
when I talk about M's influence.. i am NOT talking about whether he is worthy of my love and respect that i showered upon him.

My love and respect were precious - and still are. He was never REALLY the issue - cos he was always an icon, a catalyst a distant figure.

What WAS harmful was the horrific social cost of dreaming and 'using' people which I would justify in getting my fix. The obsession with 'experience' and 'how you are feeling' has had a horrific social cost for me.. BUT also an incalcualable benefit. I speak for myself only. I am not throwing my baby out with the bathwater... and there was a baby, found blissful and energised in strange and magical moments.. entirely subjective, glimpsed in that charade which was Darshan, awakened sometimes in a meditation when tears of gratitude would pour down my brainwashed cheeks... a child too long trapped who was let out, excited and dancing to race accross the world to be with his Lord.

Madness or folly.. it was great, and I am not so stupid to join a PRO or ANTI emotionally correct movement. Whatever is said, my past is my past and it makes no difference to me if I was hoodwinked by Peter Brook or Stanislavsky or maharaji or Speilberg... the HOLI day was the happiest of my life yet.. I lost my pants, and got dysentry and laughed and shouted and swallowed too much stagnant Indian water ... but I WAS happy.

Should I pretend otherwise in order to fit in here better ?

Am I an ex-premie ?
Am I am ex-Ian Warburton ??

No. Its all part of my life. There are aspects of the horrendous neglect of his teaching which have done me enormous hurt... but festivals and events were for me happy times by and large.

I loved them.
I have outgrown them.
I move on...

But my joy in 1992 is still beautiful - no matter what caused it.

Loafie
x

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 17:42:59 (EST)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: M is the baby, the bathwater is the Cult
Message:
Throw them out.

Now draw yourself a whole new fresh tub of water, bubbles and all nice and hot, now get in there and baby yourself Loafie, relax and let all of your cares, concerns, conflicts and cult rust soak away and disappear down the drain when you pull the plug.

Just like a big Hug, It does the mind and body good

Cheers Brian

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 03:50:34 (EST)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: Brian Smith
Subject: Re: M is the baby, the bathwater is the Cult
Message:
M aint the baby... he was a rubber duck. the baby was MY feelings.

Now... who pulled the plug out ??

Loaf

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 04:09:33 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: Who are what was the plug, Grasshopper?
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 04:17:44 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: PS Should be Who or what...
Message:
and it's a koan.

Want a daddy? There's lots of leather daddies who don't like their boys to be too young.:)

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 05:48:30 (EST)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Re: PS Should be Who or what...
Message:
No I dont want a daddy thanks Pat..I had a real one who is now very subtle (he always was) and I had a projected guru type daddy who was only 2 yrs older than me and who I thought loved me.

Now my subtle father is more vivid to me than my fake plastic one.

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 15:13:12 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: Maha is 5 yrs. older than you
Message:
Unless your the same age as Jack Benny ;)
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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 04:13:57 (EST)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: It is the plug of faith Pat [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 04:23:40 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: No Grasshopper, nor is it a buttplug
Message:
It is you. Without the plug you could not give the baby a bath.
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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 05:31:16 (EST)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: You speak wise words oh Patanand [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 16:36:30 (EST)
From: berni
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: Re: influences...
Message:
awakened sometimes in a meditation when tears of gratitude would pour down my brainwashed cheeks... a child too long trapped who was let out, excited and dancing to race accross the world to be with his Lord.

Madness or folly.. it was great, and I am not so stupid to join a PRO or ANTI emotionally correct movement. Whatever is said, my past is my past and it makes no difference to me if I was hoodwinked by Peter Brook or Stanislavsky or maharaji or Speilberg... the HOLI day was the happiest of my life yet.. I lost my pants, and got dysentry and laughed and shouted and swallowed too much stagnant Indian water ... but I WAS happy.

Should I pretend otherwise in order to fit in here better ?

I would answer a resounding NO!
Don't toe the party line ever again. Speak as you find and sod 'em if they don't like it.
I think one thing we should have learnt is not to respect the apparently strong, confident, in-your-face characters who say 'this is the way it is'. Once bitten and all that.
Being yourself is the only way.
I too miss that feeling of being part of something magical and special. Not to mention being impervious to all the things that now bring me down like no money and the lack of physical/material comfort and security. In those days all that mattered was serving the Lord and getting in some meditation - let the cruel world take it's best shot.
Of course it was totally doo-lally madness and I feel completely foolish and embarassed about it, but it still felt like being in some sort of fantasy film where we were 'protected'. Shame it wasn't real.
cheers
berni

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 16:57:21 (EST)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: berni
Subject: thanks bernie
Message:
I think it is important to remember that i had integrity as an aspirant.. and also as a premie.. i never really 'sold out'.. I bought in !

I think what makes it hard for people to respect premies is the 'closed mindedness' - but there are many shades of prejudice.. and I (hving been extreme in my Premiedom)have learned so much from this journey..

I genuinely feel sometimes that exiting is the natural fulfilment and re-integration of the whole process...

there is no parting if you take yourself with you as you go... but there is still the sorrow and grief over the death of a father figure which took me a little time to get used to.

this place is at best for me an orphanage and play room, a rehabilitation session and a place to stretch my cramped wings.

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 17:18:00 (EST)
From: Jean Valjean
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: R
Message:
Thank you for this loaf,
i am really moved for i do feel the same.
this is the first time i post on this forum and i am very pleased
to have the opportunity to speak out somethisng at last.
English is not my mothertongue language so you may find my post
quite simplistic.

i am proud and very pleased to do so.

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 10:34:05 (EST)
From: Victor
Email: None
To: Jean Valjean
Subject: now Jean [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 18:44:37 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Jean Valjean
Subject: Hello, Jean...
Message:
Welcome and good for you for posting.

I hope you will tell us more about your life w/Maharaji and don't worry about all the arguing here...sometimes it's like siblings fighting.

I was a gopi premie. I miss the community part. Even though we were in a cult, it is the people I miss the most.

Best,
Cynthia J. Gracie

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Date: Sat, Dec 08, 2001 at 18:40:51 (EST)
From: Jean Valjean
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Re: Hello, Jean...
Message:
Thank you Cynthia,
hope to speak with u some other day for i go to sleep now.

Jean

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 17:56:16 (EST)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: Jean Valjean
Subject: welcome jean.. and thankyou
Message:
hello jean, dont worry.. honesty is what we have been longing for for soooo long. I speak only for myself.. but it is my sincere feeling that even if we feel it, we are not alone, and the many shades of colour that make us who we are come flooding in... everything is not black and white.

I am moved and very happy to hear you speak.

Thankyou my friend.

Loafie

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 17:11:47 (EST)
From: berni
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: never really 'sold out'.. I bought in
Message:
Too True.
Hi Loaf,
What a weird trip eh?
It was a bit like going out to see some theatrical event the first time I went to hear satsang at the ashram - and a quarter of a century later I found I had become part of the production of some fantasy fairytale nightmare and was having a hard job leaving the theatre of the absurd.
Still I got out - or did I? What am I doing still talking about it 10 years after leaving.
Maybe I am more psychologically disturbed than I thought? ;)
When did you escape?
berni
Posting like there's no tomorrow 'cos (snigger) I haven't got a password - unless my campaign to abolish the pw has succeeded. If not they'll probably cut me off soon but I don't care because the Sopranos is on in a minute.
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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 18:18:44 (EST)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: berni
Subject: Re: never really 'sold out'.. I bought in
Message:
I am still escaping and integrating and moving on.. all simultaniously... i started exiting in 1993.. but didnt realise what was happening..it was a very unsettling time. It took me quite a while to stop feeling 'disloyal', so deep of the tired old cup of 'gratitude' had I drunk... but it wasnt enough any more. I started to outgrow him when i realised that I didnt fit the clothes he wanted me to wear any more.. being thankful is monotonous once you begin to feel that you actually 'deserve' this. No gratitude needed. its mine now.

From that point on he seemed to be playing a one string fiddle... expertly it has to be said.. as tempting as the voice of Saruman, and as much as I would have liked it to be enough.. having my gratitude 'milked' began to strike me as bad parenting.

What sort of father would constantly remind his children how much they owed him ?

I then began to realise that encouraging TRUST (as a feeling) was as dangerous as encouraging PRIDE before a flag... we are impressionable souls.

and then the more I thought and looked and saw, the more manipulative he seemed.

And then one day.... his confidence which is so alluring to me once actually looked like folly... and I knew it was over.

Dont worry about passwords.. just enjoy your 15 minutes of fame.

I can't tell you guys how much your support and words and presence means.. its dangerous and exciting and .. I am glad to say :

Its fashionable to be confused.

xx
Loafie

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 14:07:16 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: pdconlon@hotmail.com
To: Loaf
Subject: At least some of our bliss...
Message:
....came from living for something greater than ourselves, not thinking or worrying about ourselves too much. That still works and always has which is why throughout history sensible people have devoted themselves to causes or to the welfare of other people.

Now, chicken, (or are you a pullet already?) just listen to this old chicken-hawk (not really;) and trust me: if you find a way to channel your love to others you will be happy and definitely never lonely. Promise. The more time and concern you give to others, the less time for self-pity. You won't have the time to feel sorry for yourself because you will be having too much fun. :)

And don't be blue. You know you can email me any time you want.

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 15:44:44 (EST)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Re: At least some of our bliss...
Message:
thanks Pat.. but i am sort of enjoying and reclaiming my life by means of asserting my right to be fucked up and miserable !

It sounds like a cop out, but I am deeply humbled and quietened by what i am going through... I just dont have the energy to be bright and cheery at the moment.

And incidentally, thanks for your talk about helping others.. i do and I love it - but they are not there as therapy for me, and sometimes (and only sometimes) being distracted from what is going on is exactly what i dont need... I am ok.. honestly. I talk frankly here which can make things sound worse than they are, but I want to air my pain (and my pleasure and my perspective) in case it makes sense to anyone out there.

No martyrdom... just the company of truth.

:0)

Loafie

(and thanks )

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 16:27:46 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Loaf
Subject: I understand, Loafie
Message:
It is a relief to sometimes just be miserable without having to put on a happy face. I thought you were more unhappy than that though and just wanted you to .... be happy. But I really understand. You just feel like having a kvetch.

And yes, to me satsang is simply sharing love and being honest.

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 16:34:22 (EST)
From: Loafie
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: whats a kvetch ??
Message:
iT SOUNDS LIKE A SMALL JEWISH YAUGHT. I am not saying I wouldnt like one, but I cant picture jackie mason afloat....
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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 17:58:25 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Loafie
Subject: It's what yentas do
Message:
Yiddish for whine, moan, grumble, let off steam etc. Jackie is not a yenta. He's too meshugah.
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Date: Wed, Dec 05, 2001 at 19:39:44 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Moley and Nige
Subject: British Premies at Kissimee
Message:
I recall doing 'intake service' at the front desk at the Kissimee swamp festival in 1979. I was sent there early to do 'service' which was basically to help ensure that M had accommodations to his satisfaction, and the premies had the bare minimum, with Portolets, tents on bare ground, cold showers and sitting on the ground in the hot sun, while Maharaji sat in the shade and bragged that he had 'an invisible wall of air conditioning' surrounding him while sitting on that gross, gross throne with all the electronic gadgets that he thought were so neato cool.

With all that, one wonders why he was so obviously pissed through that whole festival. He sure did yell at us.

Anyhow, it was about 90 degrees F and 90% humidity although being November, it did cool off at night. Sitting there in my shorts and tank top it was interesting watching the British premies show up from the airport wearing woolens of all types, skirts, pants, scarves, hats, sweltering in the heat, dragging their camping gear behind them. Moley, were you one of those?

Hell must be better than what the Kissimee Festival was, or there certainly is no God.

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 15:16:45 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: British Premies at Kissimee
Message:
Hi Joe,

I went to Kissimee a couple of weeks early to help Michael Blakemore organise the childcare.

In true British tradition, there was a thieving ring, organised by an anarchic British premie working in the kitchen, who stole loads of meal tickets and distributed them free to broke British premies doing service, including myself and family.

I also heard there was an onsite brothel, run by some South American premies.

I think any kind of drug you wanted was available on site too.

The 12 year-old daughter of a British rock star was sexually abused by a premie posing as a new age doctor. Again, (seems to be my fate) I became involved. I demanded that the security called the police, and have the guy arrested, but they didn't want bad publicity, and gave the guy satsang instead.

Those were the days.

Anth my bike is worse than my bark.

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 12:36:25 (EST)
From: SULLA
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: What a smell for business!
Message:
OH MY GOD! So South American premies also run the burdel???
What a smell for business!! I'm impress!! Something they have to learn from the boss!!
And the 'prostis'? Were they also South Americans? Do they have a prosti sample from each S. American country?
Were European, North American and other continent meretrices also available?
And don't tell me that only South American premies took advantage of the onsite brothel. I bet the businessmen were paid a lot of not counterfeit bills.
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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 17:56:26 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: SULLA
Subject: Re: What a smell for business!
Message:
Hi SULLA,
There were brothels from several countries, but the South American ones, where I spent many red food tickets, were the best by far. Much classier than the Eurotrash. The Americans were too expensive- three lunch tickets for howsyafatha, six for a howsyamum, and a dozen for the full General Montgomery. Their tents were tidier too.

The South Americans also had the best drugs.

Anth the African

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 15:22:41 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Prostitution/Drugs at Kissimee
Message:
I found out later that the charters from South America to the Kissimee festivals were being used to smuggle drugs which were sold widely at the festivals in both 1978 and 1979. Apparently the Miami satsang hall became a focal point after that, being that hundreds of South American premies stayed illegally in Miami after those festivals. Miami was awash in drugs at that time. Many premie drug dealers in the Miami community. I sometimes borrowed money from them when we were short on paying rent for the satsang hall.

So, DEI agents (I guess it was just FBI then) staked out the satsang hall posing as premies listening to satsang. Weird. DLM cooperated with the feds and I was told as CC to do whatever they wanted. All those vices, as well as M milking the organization for every cent it had, were part of the reason there never was a big outdoor festival after 1979. In fact, international programs period kind of died after that.

Yes, there definitely was a drug and sex trade going on at Kissimee. But stolen food tickets!!!! That is just too much to comprehend!

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 13:20:18 (EST)
From: Sulla
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: Prostitution/Drugs at Kissimee
Message:
I'm a South American and as Barbara, I didn't travel in that ring of hell, as many hundreds of South American premies didn't either. Was the premie business only about cocaine? or did they also sell Heroin, LSD or Hashish? Because if they did, not only the South Americans, but also the British, other European, North American or Indian premies were involved. What do you think?
And about the stealing, you cannot put all the people in the same sack, not because some Indians or British or North Americans steal, you can say when something disappear that must be the Indians, or British or North Americans. Estrange thing you didn't refer to us as 'Hispanics' so you could include more people in the same sack, as Mexicans, Central Americans, and even Hispanics from Spain.
I don't thing we exported those steroids. And what's tschotke? It's a drug?
Never heard about it.

And what about you borrowing from that stinky money! Are you sure you are not from South America?

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 14:45:17 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Sulla
Subject: Whoa, Sulla
Message:
I didn't talk about any stealing. All I know is that I was told by Elan Vital honchos that the charters from South America to the Kissimee Festival were being used to smuggle 'drugs' into the US. I assumed it was cocaine, but I don't know for sure.

That isn't to say that American premies, Europoeans and others WEREN'T dealing drugs. At that time, like I said, Miami was awash in drugs, especially cocaine and had the highest murder rate in the US. And it wasn't just South Americans who were dealing, that's for sure. Those premie drug dealers that I hit up for money to pay rent on the satsang hall were Americans. Plus, I'm sure at least half the Miami Community, including many of the hundreds and hundreds of premies who were in the ashram in the Miami area, smoked dope regularly. I, being the stalwart company man, did not, however.

But the FBI was interested mostly in the smuggling part of it; why I don't know. And the staking out of the Miami satsang hall was in regard to ALL drug dealing, not just in regard to a particular nationality.

I think 'tschotke' is a Yiddish term for kitchy junk. The kind of stuff that Visions sells. At that time, Elan Vital was selling lots of pictures of M, as well as various junky jewelry, tapes, barrogans, tote bags with the Lard's face on them, etc.

What 'stinky money' are you talking about?

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 15:37:55 (EST)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: Prostitution/Drugs at Kissimee
Message:
Joe,

I was doing security at one of the Kissimmee programs and spent part of a day following around some South American premies who supposedly had a cocaine ring going at the festival. I remember another festival at the Convention Center in Miami during that era where there were counterfeit bills coming in from South America and the were being used to buy tschotke at the sales tables. The problem was not just taking the couterfeit bills, but giving them change in good currency.

--f

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 15:29:19 (EST)
From: Barbara
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: 'Stealing at the 7-11'
Message:
I remember the 7-11 on the corner of the road which led into the festival grounds was stolen blind. I never heard of the prostitution ring but, then again, I didn't exactly travel in that particular circle of hell.
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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 15:26:35 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Christ...Was I Naive... [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 15:31:21 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Cynthia, please...
Message:
At kissimee, how do you think those premies put on white shirts and black pants and pulled Maharaji around that swamp on a flowered cart while he wore a crown and a pearl mala unless they were on major drugs? Think about it! :)
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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 16:40:44 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Christ I am gullible....
Message:
Joe,

Do you mean steroids? LOL!

I remember that particular cart ride well...I can still hear the Indian premies singing in Hindi in the background...actually have a audio tape of it....premies blowing shris in the background...he made eye contact with me....I fell down crying....

Christ, I was gullible! O me gawd...

The nipples were airbrushed out eh?

btw, Joe, AIID, must have become Elan Vital earlier than 1980. I remember it happening earlier...are you sure?

Gotta go fer now...my turn to make dinner...and the 1939 version of Gulliver's Travels is on AMC right now....one of my childhood favs.

...Last night Tom watched ''Catch 22''...cast of thousands...

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 15:30:28 (EST)
From: Barbara
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: LOL...I hear ya [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 09:21:44 (EST)
From: Moley
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: British Premies at Kissimee nightmare
Message:
Yep, I was one of those. Battered suitcase full of granola, premie husband and 11 month old baby in tow. Husband's dad gave each of his sons £500 to fly to Eygpt to visit him - and so we flew to Orlando instead!
A bunch of us from local community - landed at JFK airport.... wandering around in the Maya... looking totally spaced-out (I say this in retrospect!). Got escorted through the airport by big beefy gun-toting airport policeman, who must have taken pity on us. Me paranoid cos I was smuggling foodstuffs into the States. (Smuggled a toddler into Spain next year. Pretended 'he' was a 'she'and took him through as my daughter on my passport, with a flowery bonnet on, cos he wasn't on his Mum's.)
Kissimee - ended up with another premie in our tent (Where are you Arnie?). Bitten by insects. Drowned in tropical rainfall one day. Spent only money on a ring so I could be 'married' to Rawat. Cold water, dirty toilets. Big-time heavy telling-off satsang on the first night. Running through swamp to get to M's car, see him close up driving past in luxury (ignoring me obviously). Severe lack of sleep. Semi-starvation. By end of 10 days on another planet. Got on internal flight, and wept and wailed en masse with rest of community. Got on next flight - too consumed by itching bites to feel devotion. Back to reality!
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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 11:46:37 (EST)
From: wolfie
Email: None
To: Moley
Subject: dancing all night long
Message:
Hi, wasn't it divine to dance all night long with the Lord of Lords. Damn I always was thinking, why I can't get into the groove, should have had some good smoke and made my own party in the hotelroom. No me and my wife with our three year old son and our ten month old daughter hanging there half the night totally exhausted. My heart screamed stop stop but I 've heard myself shouting: please dance dance dance. Then he got behinde the stage, I thought now it's over, shit he came back in another funny coustume, blue ones, red ones, green ones, golden ones........those were the days my friends.

love ....tears and laughter.......wolfie after a long long movie schow

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 03:09:06 (EST)
From: such
Email: None
To: wolfie
Subject: r.e. costumes
Message:
yeah, one night miragey had so many weird dress changes -- it was like a Liberace concert.

Won't you dance, dance, dance, our hearts blah blah blah...

those were some crazy days and crazy nights! LOL, fer crying out Lard!

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Date: Wed, Dec 05, 2001 at 22:17:38 (EST)
From: Pullaver
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Kissimmee
Message:
There was more than one Kissimmee program, no? These multi-day festivals are kind of a blur of impressions to me now. I had to laugh (loudly) at Nigel's memories of his suitcase of granola and a Krishna-clad margie being pulled around like an ox and cart. I remember that one, with the premies forming a long twisting procession - a perplexed looking Donner being one of the honourary pullees and of course the regular security suits with walkie talkies marching briskly in advance.

Oh the memories, like driving there in our rented ashram Winnebago. Doing entrance 'security' during the evening shift and giving a very long and sensuous massage to a 'sister' I got paired with. She ended up inviting me back to her tent to, ahem, do group meditation. I very nearly left the ashram then and there to hitch-hike back to the Kootenays with her - but then marji had his infamous meeting in which he stated quite plainly and clearly that only Mr. M-I-N-D would make us ever want to leave the ashram. Doh!!!!

Trying to meditate in one of the tents and having to listen to some guy constantly wrapping and re-wrapping himself in this crinkly, metallic, space-age blanket someone was selling to the premies to keep them warm. Washing my favourite blue jeans and hanging 'em out to dry, going to satsang, coming back and finding out that they had been ripped off - everyone was telling me if must have been the South American premies. Listening to margie giving satsang about how the premies are propogating - like rabbits - and derisively describing us (paraphrasing Ira Woods) as nothing but lumps of flesh clinging to other lumps of flesh - I was certain he threw in that bit just for me because I was an ashram premie who was breaking his vow of celibacy for the first time at Kissimmee.

I remember that I actually put a suit on for darshan out in this muddy field of dreamers. Living on nothing but yoghurt, bananas, and 'bliss'. I mostly remember the youthful idealism and hopefulness of being together on the land with people from all over the world as 'one family' listening with 'one heart' to our dear Lord, Guru Maharaj Ji. A long journey dear friends from that to Visions trinklets, $100 suggested entrance donations to Speaker Appointments, selling access and proximity to the high rollers, a Lear Jet, a 7 million dollar yacht, palatial residences, Special Trainings, CAC attacks, and yer run of the mill bongs, booze, blondes and bhakti bucks. Sigh.

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Date: Wed, Dec 05, 2001 at 18:34:44 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Moley and Nige
Subject: Come on , you can do it...
Message:
What came after Kissimee, 1979? I was enjoying your rendition of those mind-fucking festivals.

I heard that M is holding an "event" in the good old "Miami Beach Convention Center" the site where both Richard Nixon and George McGovern accepted their respective party's nominations in 1972.

I must have spent 1000 hours in that cavernous, dank, place, because so many festivals took place there between 1977 and 1983. . The thought of it brings back the smell eminating from the huge air conditioning units. I'm sure any US premie or ex-premie can conjure up the same.

The very idea of having to once again be in that hall listening to me sitting on a stage covered in Federal Blue carpeting, makes we want to puke.

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Date: Wed, Dec 05, 2001 at 18:55:44 (EST)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Hmm...
Message:
What came after Kissimee, 1979? I was enjoying your rendition of those mind-fucking festivals.

I heard that M is holding an "event" in the good old "Miami Beach Convention Center" the site where both Richard Nixon and George McGovern accepted their respective party's nominations in 1972.

I must have spent 1000 hours in that cavernous, dank, place, because so many festivals took place there between 1977 and 1983. . The thought of it brings back the smell eminating from the huge air conditioning units. I'm sure any US premie or ex-premie can conjure up the same.

The very idea of having to once again be in that hall listening to me sitting on a stage covered in Federal Blue carpeting, makes we want to puke.


---

Beats me why anyone would want to cover themselves with federal blue carpeting, but - then again - this was a cult, was it not...?;)

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 16:07:48 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: That's funny Nigel.
Message:
On the subject of carpets. I hear a US airforce pilot shot down what he thought was a Taliban soldier on a magic carpet, over Kabul, then got into big trouble because it turned out to be an Allied Carpet*.

Anth, it's the way I tell 'em.

*Allied Carpets are one of the biggest carpet retailers in the UK.

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 16:40:13 (EST)
From: berni
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Re: That's funny Nigel. :LOL
Message:
Ho ho ho :)
Thanks for the laff Anth - I'm just getting a few posts in before the FA realises he's got the password thingy turned off
;)
berni
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Date: Wed, Dec 05, 2001 at 19:01:23 (EST)
From: Moley
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Christ - did he want to get into my knickers??
Message:
Sometime in 1980 - London - some Godforsaken event all about 'Satsang, Service, Meditation and Devotion' - and the only one that really mattered was 'Devotion'! LOng, lingering looks from the Lard in the darshan line - scary but true - and here's me thinking he thought I was a devoted premie....

Moley - fell off a Christmas tree circa 1977

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 16:55:43 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: Moley
Subject: Loss of Memory
Message:
Los Angeles in 74, small
Kissimee witht the floating stage and double foot darshan
Back to Kissemee sleeping in tents, a smart premie from our communtity had a custom shade tent made and we all sat under that along with pushy other pwks who demanded to
rome
montreal-loved that town
miami too many times to remember including the fancy dinner in 79 or 80
L.A. too many times
S.F a couple of time
Berkeley
Oakland
Philadelphia with the first flower mala
Portland in 76 or sometime there abouts, the gas shortage year
Miami, only it was an hour north of Miami
Universal studio hotel thing
Santa Monica
Denver, that big Valentine one in the 70's
Denver, again but can't remember
Arizona, somewhere
Chicago early 90's or late 80's near on that university campus, or nearby

Sure wish I had all the air fare back, along with the hotels. Remember when we first stayed in Miami for like $12?

There's probably more but it's all one big blurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 10:06:48 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: Re: Loss of Memory
Message:
Ahh, it's starting to come back.....
Pasadena
Thousand Oaks six years ago or so
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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 13:30:57 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: I'd forgotten about the Pasadena dos
Message:
and Thousand Oaks. They all kind of blurred into one. All during that time I was really starting to find the events boring and fell asleep during rawat's sermons.
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