Ex-Premie Forum 7 Archive
From: Jan 01, 2002 To: Jan 08, 2002 Page: 3 of: 5


cq -:- This is mind-blowingly unbelievable! -:- Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 07:29:10 (EST)
__ wolfie -:- show me the way....Swamiji (nt).... -:- Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 12:12:31 (EST)
__ Nigel -:- Swami Bullshitmerchant -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 11:52:46 (EST)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Re: Swami Bullshitmerchant -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 12:29:12 (EST)
__ __ __ PatC -:- Got me too, Cynthia -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 13:40:47 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Re: Got me too, Cynthia -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 15:31:47 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Still scratching head, Cynthia -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 15:38:31 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ JohnT -:- Hint! -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 17:34:20 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Gullible Pat...Great... -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 18:45:25 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Blame that Bliss! -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 19:46:56 (EST)
__ Brian Smith -:- 3 out of 3 for me then I quit trying -:- Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 15:25:02 (EST)
__ AJW -:- Hey Chris. -:- Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 13:23:47 (EST)
__ __ cq -:- Re: Hey Chris. -:- Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 08:00:17 (EST)
__ __ __ AJW -:- LOL (nt) -:- Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 15:32:46 (EST)
__ __ Chris -:- Pls send a promo video! -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 11:34:17 (EST)
__ dv -:- It removes ALL the cards from the pile. nt -:- Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 08:34:39 (EST)
__ __ cq -:- Brilliant!!! but don't tell anyone (nt) -:- Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 08:48:51 (EST)

Anandaji -:- Do you still meditate? -:- Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 02:25:25 (EST)
__ salam -:- Do you still meditate? -:- Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 23:54:00 (EST)
__ Pullaver -:- Meditation -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 17:34:14 (EST)
__ __ PatC -:- ''the energy behind the breath??!!!'' -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 20:01:51 (EST)
__ __ __ Pullaver or Pullover or Palaver -:- Re: ''the energy behind the breath??!!!'' -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 22:56:34 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Paullaver, pull over and quite yer palaver -:- Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 00:19:55 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- But more seriously, Pullover -:- Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 03:11:27 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Pullaver -:- Re: But more seriously, Pullover -:- Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 10:16:50 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- What was the question? :) -:- Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 14:12:02 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pullaver -:- Cockroach and the Preying Maharantis -:- Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 23:58:11 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Re: Cockroach and the Preying Maharantis -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 04:08:20 (EST)
__ Steve Mueller -:- Re: Do you still meditate? -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 00:59:30 (EST)
__ __ Joe -:- Yeah, but what does it do for you? -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 21:15:48 (EST)
__ __ observer -:- WOW! Brilliant, funny, insightful.LOL nt -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 08:48:28 (EST)
__ __ PatC -:- Brilliant post, Steve -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 04:03:29 (EST)
__ __ __ Brian Smith -:- Thanks, Pat and Steve -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 04:38:12 (EST)
__ __ __ __ PatC -:- The elephant in the room -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 13:57:12 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Re: The elephant in the room -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 15:37:22 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Re: The elephant in the room -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 15:40:49 (EST)
__ Jim -:- Check this out -:- Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 22:06:25 (EST)
__ __ Anandaji -:- Re: Check this out -:- Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 19:12:37 (EST)
__ __ gerry -:- I think I'm feeling better now -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 13:50:27 (EST)
__ __ __ Brian Smith -:- I love your Browser Type Gerry -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 18:15:06 (EST)
__ __ __ PatC -:- The pleasure of alpha brain waves -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 14:04:28 (EST)
__ __ __ __ gerry -:- Re: The pleasure of alpha brain waves -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 15:39:35 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Brain chemistry -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 15:47:40 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- binaural beats -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 16:20:02 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Re: binaural beats - thanks, gerry -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 17:04:25 (EST)
__ __ Salsa -:- where is the link? nt -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 07:25:53 (EST)
__ Francesca -:- Re: Do you still meditate??? -:- Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 20:05:23 (EST)
__ __ Anandaji -:- Re: Do you still meditate?????? -:- Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 19:29:38 (EST)
__ PatC -:- Yes, but K is BS -:- Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 19:40:36 (EST)
__ __ JohnT -:- Giving up meditation -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 05:16:05 (EST)
__ __ __ PatC -:- Re: Giving up meditation -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 14:16:04 (EST)
__ __ __ __ JohnT -:- Spacing out -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 14:32:04 (EST)
__ PatD -:- Re: Do you still meditate? -:- Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 19:22:31 (EST)
__ Cynthia -:- Re: Do you still meditate? -:- Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 14:05:36 (EST)
__ Pullaver -:- Re: Do you still meditate? -:- Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 13:13:11 (EST)
__ Vicki -:- Not really -:- Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 06:59:39 (EST)
__ AJW -:- Meditation. -:- Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 06:37:20 (EST)
__ __ Anandaji -:- Re: Meditation. -:- Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 11:33:45 (EST)
__ __ __ Lesley -:- God is in Heaven, and all's right with the world -:- Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 14:40:40 (EST)
__ __ __ __ PatC -:- Re: God is in Heaven -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 04:13:10 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Robert Browning -:- Song, from Pippa Passes -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 04:38:17 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Thanks, JohnT -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 14:18:17 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Lesley -:- Re: Thanks, JohnT -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 15:26:31 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ JohnT -:- Original, I think -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 18:17:10 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Lesley -:- Common usage rather than plagiarism -:- Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 13:34:45 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- The Barretts of Wimpole Street -:- Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 19:52:27 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Which opera, Lesley?....OT -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 15:35:37 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Lesley -:- Missed the title -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 15:54:51 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- The Force of Destiny - Mozart -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 17:10:07 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Francesca -:- WONDERFUL post Lesley, especially this bit -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 00:31:15 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Lesley -:- I'm back to worshipping stone idols now -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 15:43:03 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Francesca -:- I luv my silica! :) :~) [nt] -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 17:39:12 (EST)
__ __ __ AJW -:- Watch more TV and eat more meat. -:- Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 13:34:13 (EST)
__ __ __ __ A fluffy little lamb -:- T.V. I've got no objections to but.. -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 10:22:03 (EST)
__ Brian Smith -:- It doesn't matter -:- Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 06:19:47 (EST)
__ __ Chris -:- aye - nice Brian, thanks -:- Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 11:59:38 (EST)
__ __ __ Anandaji -:- Thanks everyone -:- Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 20:23:23 (EST)
__ __ __ __ PatC -:- Sounds good -:- Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 20:40:33 (EST)

Pauline Premie -:- I am still here..... -:- Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 15:00:39 (EST)
__ GMJ -:- Paula, what you doing after the video tonight? nt -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 08:51:04 (EST)
__ AJW -:- LOL (nt) -:- Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 06:42:34 (EST)

The Maharaji of Malibu's -:- paid ACTORS for Propogation -:- Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 14:40:10 (EST)
__ Pullaver -:- Re: paid ACTORS for Propogation -:- Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 13:18:50 (EST)
__ Chris -:- IT WAS SCRIPTED -:- Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 00:26:04 (EST)
__ __ Chris -:- IT WAS SCRIPTED -:- Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 00:48:38 (EST)
__ Suzie -:- Re: paid ACTORS for Propogation -:- Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 18:44:49 (EST)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Shining... -:- Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 21:36:42 (EST)
__ __ Brian Smith -:- I Suspect -:- Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 19:49:19 (EST)
__ __ __ Mirror -:- Re: I Suspect -:- Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 06:16:35 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Brian Smith -:- Re: I Suspect this as well -:- Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 06:53:28 (EST)

JHB -:- Maharaji gives up on the internet -:- Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 05:04:06 (EST)
__ AJW -:- That's not all he's giving up. -:- Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 14:59:06 (EST)
__ __ Mr Muggins -:- Where can I join? -:- Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 08:48:49 (EST)
__ __ Joe -:- Well said Anth -:- Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 18:28:02 (EST)
__ Joe -:- Typical Maharaji -:- Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 13:52:03 (EST)
__ Brian Smith -:- He can't control it -:- Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 05:49:37 (EST)
__ Jethro -:- Re: Maharaji gives up on the internet -:- Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 05:38:54 (EST)
__ __ JHB -:- Did Rajneesh really say this? -:- Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 08:26:55 (EST)
__ __ __ Jethro -:- Re: Did Rajneesh really say this? -:- Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 08:54:33 (EST)
__ __ __ __ cq -:- Re: Did Rajneesh really say this? -:- Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 12:29:12 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Rajneesh has little balls... -:- Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 13:55:38 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- All the Gurus Are Mad... -:- Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 21:46:17 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Can't you freeze Miles........(OT) -:- Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 03:19:58 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Re: Can't you freeze Miles........(OT) -:- Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 14:24:40 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Vicki -:- Re: Can't you freeze Miles........(OT) -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 10:13:25 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Lovely story. Thanks, Vicki.....(OT) [nt] -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 14:21:49 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Richard -:- Re: Cat People -:- Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 15:52:48 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- To Richard and Vicki OT -:- Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 11:59:12 (EST)

VKP -:- Urgent Search--> -:- Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 03:41:40 (EST)
__ janet -:- i knew danny profit -:- Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 04:12:42 (EST)
__ __ VKP -:- Re: i knew danny profit -:- Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 23:33:54 (EST)
__ Deborah -:- I knew Danny Profit -:- Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 17:49:04 (EST)
__ Joe -:- There was a premie 'Danny Profit' -:- Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 15:23:50 (EST)
__ __ Richard -:- Re: Danny Profit -:- Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 15:49:19 (EST)

Elizabeth -:- Note To Janet -:- Thurs, Jan 03, 2002 at 23:45:01 (EST)
__ Jim -:- Now why would you say something like that? -:- Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 14:24:31 (EST)
__ AJW -:- Elizabeth. -:- Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 15:02:07 (EST)
__ Sir Dave -:- Re: Note To Janet -:- Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 01:13:31 (EST)
__ __ Elizabeth -:- Re: Note To Janet -:- Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 05:51:05 (EST)
__ __ Tonette -:- Help me here Sir, -:- Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 01:25:28 (EST)
__ __ __ Ellizabeth -:- Re: Help me here Sir, -:- Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 05:53:06 (EST)
__ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Note the reference to sheep -:- Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 06:56:25 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Elizabeth -:- Re: Note the reference to sheep -:- Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 05:56:42 (EST)
__ Tonette -:- Are you drunk or something? -:- Thurs, Jan 03, 2002 at 23:58:40 (EST)
__ __ Elliizabeth -:- Re: Are you drunk or something? -:- Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 05:56:59 (EST)
__ __ __ Tonette -:- Whatever, you are not making any sense to me -:- Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 23:01:47 (EST)
__ __ Sir Dave -:- You're right there -:- Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 01:15:12 (EST)
__ __ __ PatC -:- It's Janet's friend who has... -:- Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 03:54:13 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Elizabeth -:- Re: It's Janet's friend who has... -:- Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 06:03:16 (EST)
__ __ __ __ CW -:- Hullo your majesty... -:- Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 05:31:58 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Hey Derek. -:- Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 15:08:47 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Yes, you lowly peasant -:- Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 13:21:54 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Elizabeth -:- Re: Yes, you lowly peasant -:- Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 06:07:45 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ janet -:- sigh..ok-i'll explain -:- Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 04:51:11 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ ELIZABETH -:- Re: sigh..ok-i'll explain -:- Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 06:19:02 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Hey Elizabeth -:- Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 10:18:53 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ ELIZABETH -:- Re: sigh..ok-i'll explain -:- Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 06:19:00 (EST)


Date: Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 07:29:10 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: All
Subject: This is mind-blowingly unbelievable!
Message:
it guessed my card correctly 5 times in a row!

Let's hear how many times it works for you ...

http://www.otoons.0catch.com/L2/magic_cards/The%20Eyes.htm
[ This is unbelievable! (click here) ]

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Date: Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 12:12:31 (EST)
From: wolfie
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: show me the way....Swamiji (nt)....
Message:
ups......
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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 11:52:46 (EST)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: cq
Subject: Swami Bullshitmerchant
Message:
Nice trick, cq, but it really sickens me to see people passing off simple conjuring as geniune psychic powers like this swami guy is doing. Uri Geller has made millions by the same route, and has wasted the time of a lot of serious reachers (who couldn't recognise conjuring for what it was), as well as exploited people's gullibility for personal gain. A pox on all their houses, I say..
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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 12:29:12 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Re: Swami Bullshitmerchant
Message:
I've seen this trick on other websites. It's nothing new. Just something else. What? Got me.
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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 13:40:47 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Got me too, Cynthia
Message:
I'm still scratching my head trying to figure out how it's done.
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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 15:31:47 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Re: Got me too, Cynthia
Message:
Pat,

You pick a card, then they remove all the cards so you believe that they chose the card you thought of. It's a trick.

Silly!

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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 15:38:31 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Still scratching head, Cynthia
Message:
Sometimes I'm very slow on the uptake. I know it's a trick but can't understand what you mean by ''they remove all the cards.'' the only one that was removed was the one I picked. I know I'm dumb somtimes. :)
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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 17:34:20 (EST)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Hint!
Message:
Instead of remembering just one card, make a note of all the cards first displayed. Then pick your card and carry on as requested. When the cards are redisplayed there is one fewer. But note the redisplayed cards do not include any of the cards (including the one you picked) that were there originally.

Heh!

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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 18:45:25 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: JohnT
Subject: Gullible Pat...Great...
Message:
...I'm not the only one.

Thanks, to JohnT for the best evidence (cough) I mean explanation.

Luv,
C

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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 19:46:56 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Blame that Bliss!
Message:
Duh! Thanks, John. You can see I will never make a good sleuth.
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Date: Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 15:25:02 (EST)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: 3 out of 3 for me then I quit trying
Message:
when I noticed that no other cards appeared that were there the first time either.
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Date: Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 13:23:47 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Hey Chris.
Message:
Hi Chris,

I've been offered this once in a lifetime business opportunity to buy the Tower of London really cheap. How'd you like to be a partner?

Anth now you see it, now you don't

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Date: Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 08:00:17 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Re: Hey Chris.
Message:
You'll have to get in line, Anth. First up is my appointment with a nice gentleman who says the Brooklyn Bridge is a better investment.

Wot, me gullible?

;)

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Date: Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 15:32:46 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: LOL (nt)
Message:
I lied about the NT again. Happy new year.
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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 11:34:17 (EST)
From: Chris
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Pls send a promo video!
Message:
Do the cells come furnished with couches and state-of-the-art home theatres so I can watch all my favorite videos? :)

(Hey Anth! Luv'd your journey. You had all my therapeutic laughs rollin' like all the lost heads on the tower floors.)

And I sure have a lot to laugh (and cry about) for the next while.....

Many happy MiqMaq Indian (First Nation/native/ aboriginal/autochtone/indigenous) (sigh) cheers to you,

Chris Screen Gazer (if only my head would stay put)

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Date: Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 08:34:39 (EST)
From: dv
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: It removes ALL the cards from the pile. nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 08:48:51 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: dv
Subject: Brilliant!!! but don't tell anyone (nt)
Message:
Brilliant!!! but don't tell anyone
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Date: Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 02:25:25 (EST)
From: Anandaji
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Do you still meditate?
Message:
Leading up to my trip to Miami in December to see M, I had been working hard (again) at trying to meditate/practice. Since returning and discovering EPO, I have not meditated at all. I am afraid to. It seems inextricably enmeshed with the whole bizarre experience of the past 28 years.

I am also wondering if meditating creates a 'floating' effect with me and is perhaps some of the cause of what I feel is a 'reality neurosis.' I have difficulty coping, making decisions and just living in the everyday world of those dastardly senses.

Yet, I read some messages here that some of you still do meditate. What I would be grateful for is if you would discuss your experiences with medition, or lack thereof, since leaving the cult.

Thanks.

Anandaji

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Date: Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 23:54:00 (EST)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Anandaji
Subject: Do you still meditate?
Message:
bet you everyone has giving you some wisdom. As to your question the answer is no. Meditation sucks to begin with, plus what'shisnameyouknowwoh did not teach meditation. He wanted money, slaves and mindless zombiees which we were. now that you're out, you're wasting you time. Best thing to do is to start from zero.

and for allahs sake, forget about what'shisnameyouknowwho, he is a looser.

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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 17:34:14 (EST)
From: Pullaver
Email: pullaver@yahoo.ca
To: Anandaji
Subject: Meditation
Message:
I'm kind of freaked reading everyone's different interpretations and experiences (below). If I didn't know better I'd say that's why you need a master. The idea behind all the techniques is that you experience tranquility by turning all your senses except smell inwards. The experience of 'holy name' is not just the calming effect that comes from following your breath like some mantra, but letting go to the energy behind the breath. Similarly with light, music and nectar. The idea is not to poke your eyes to create an experience of light - you just barely touch your eyelids and focus at your third eye and 'feel' the sensation which is light . . . and so on. Sheesh.
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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 20:01:51 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Pullaver
Subject: ''the energy behind the breath??!!!''
Message:
Is your name meant to be ''palaver'' as in causing a big palaver (fuss) over something? Or is it mean to be pullover as in jumper, jersey or sweater?

I agree with you about the eyeball squeezing stuff - not necessary and even Rev Rawat stopped that nearly 20 years ago but....

You used the phrase ''letting go to the energy behind the breath.''

''Letting go?'' ''Energy behind the breath?'' I am assuming that I know what you mean but those are mystical words. Skating on very thin subjectivist ice. Those words don't mean much to anyone not in a cult.

I'm trying to find my own vocabulary or at least one that is recognizable to people who have not been exposed to mystical Hindu/Maharajist mumbo-jumbo. ''Relaxation/mental health'' suits me fine. I know that I feel more than that but what I feel is subjective and incommunicable.

Putting it into words requires that we all agree to make assumptions about what we are talking about. Might as well use the buzz-word Knowledge and be done with it except then you are thinking like a cultist. :)

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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 22:56:34 (EST)
From: Pullaver or Pullover or Palaver
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Re: ''the energy behind the breath??!!!''
Message:
An old acid-head like yerself knows exactly where I'm coming from. The eternal buzz, man. Cult or no cult. Cult or no kult. Kult or no
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Date: Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 00:19:55 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Pullaver or Pullover or Palaver
Subject: Paullaver, pull over and quite yer palaver
Message:
Of course I do or maybe I think I do or maybe you think I do but all the objectivist materialists here won't let us get away with it.

It's the vibe man. :C)

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Date: Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 03:11:27 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: But more seriously, Pullover
Message:
''That feeling'' or ''the vibe'' or ''love'' or ''energy'' - whatever you want to call it - was what kept some of us in the cult for up to 30 years. I know I need to discuss it and am open to all points of view.

It's just that I am allergic to unexamined cult cliches as well as Old Hippie and New Age mystical assumptions. I know we are treading into the realms of emotion, art and poetry here but I was hoodwinked big time by Guru Feelgood into thinking that it was god or the ultimate truth so I prefer not to use any nudge-nudge wink-wink language - or rubber words as Jim calls them.

That's a big hoodwink and I prefer not to perpetuate it with my own uneducated speculations and certainly not in a language based on often erroneous assumptions about some prescientific religion.

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Date: Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 10:16:50 (EST)
From: Pullaver
Email: pullaver@yahoo.ca
To: PatC
Subject: Re: But more seriously, Pullover
Message:
I don't think it was 'that experience' that kept you in a cult for 30 years but rather associating m as the source of, or perhaps somehow responsible for that experience.

EPO has proven without doubt that m is not a 'master' perfect or otherwise and that he has used the dissemination of the tech's as a method to entrap us and enrich himself. However, I and I'm sure many others have discovered that these tech's are beneficial and can result in deeply satisfying experiences. Is this God? Is this our soul? Is this an energy that can be neither created nor destroyed? Beats me. I agree that we can make absolutely no claims.

It is difficult to quantify an experience, such as the exact level of rapture one feels at orgasm or the level of satisfaction one feels after consuming food. Science has proven that there is a region in the brain which when stimulated/utilized, brings about measurable indicators of a 'relaxed' state. Neural scientists have mapped this corroborative brain activity in conjunction with respiratory and cardiovascular indicators, etc., when subjects are in a 'meditative state' - induced by direct brain stimulation or through voluntary methods. I have no problem with the brain being the source of the experience - where else do we experience things? Not to absolutely rule out either the possibility that the brain is experiencing the life force flowing through it like neural taste buds. Dunno.

I suppose that my joking 'acid' reference was meant to nudge you about what those experiences appeared to be saying. Okay, I can't readily dismiss experiences in this realm either. I don't know what yours or anybody else's experience was/is but do you remember the phenomena known as the acid smile? Did you not experience the analytical, filtering, functions of your brain being minimized while direct, hyper-aware experiences were increased. For me there was always an experience of 'letting go' and being in the flow of the moment. I don't think that this analogy is entirely misplaced when speaking of meditation. Is this a refutation of intellectual and scientific enquiry? No, just using our brain for a different purpose this time.

What was the question?

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Date: Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 14:12:02 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Pullaver
Subject: What was the question? :)
Message:
Thanks for taking the time to respond at length. I'm not a scientist but I know what I enjoy and what is right for me. What kept me in the cult more than anything, as you rightly point out, was associating feeling fabulous with His Holeyness.

For the past ten years or so though that has been not so true as I began to feel that it was my own effort. However the fallacy that it was a Big Secret kept me in long past the time I had outgrown Rev Rawat.

Most of the exes who left early on did not get to that point. Most of those who are still in the cult probably still think like my premie friends that they can't enjoy it without the ''Master.'' But we stuck it out because we were getting something out of it.

I called it the elephant in the room because it will become a major topic as longtime premies who enjoy it exit. I'm looking forward to the discussion.

The irony is that I left because I liked meditation a lot and wanted to share it but found that rawat was the big obstacle to teaching others about it - the cockroach in the cornflakes as Anth says.

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Date: Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 23:58:11 (EST)
From: Pullaver
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Cockroach and the Preying Maharantis
Message:
Hi Pat. Yes, I agree, I had often thought how ironic it was that the preying maharantis was the biggest obstacle to informing people about these simple tech's. Thought it must be some kind of lila or sumpin'
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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 04:08:20 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Pullaver
Subject: Re: Cockroach and the Preying Maharantis
Message:
No it's grace. ;)

Or is that luck. The techs will make their way around the west in a western way, democratically, without the religion of Maharajism. No need for a ''master.'' Never has been. It's a money-making scam like the whole preacher business.

Those of us who like it will show our friends. If they like they'll show others. Who cares if some don't get it and there's no consistency? The techs are not important which is why he keeps them secret.

What's important is the vibe. I got my first contact high from an ordinary premie not the guru. Actually I was ''initiated'' into it by LSD. Getting there without drugs is easy once you have seen that someone else has done it.

Getting high with a little help from your friends is the best but what would you do if I sang out of key? :C)

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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 00:59:30 (EST)
From: Steve Mueller
Email: None
To: Anandaji
Subject: Re: Do you still meditate?
Message:
Doug, m' man, I am SO happy to know you are right here in the Cities. Can't wait to get together with you. It is SO refreshing to hear from another escapee from fatboy's sickological getdough. Your humility, sincerity and unpretentiousness endear you to me. What a contrast to the smugness, uptightness, coldness and drastic lack of community spirit and that has long since replaced the warm community spirit and sharing that we both enjoyed here back in the 70's.

To answer your question on meditation. I have to be honest, here. Everytime M ORDERED me to do ALL FOUR techniques for a MINIMUM (and, he did pronounce it: MINNY MUM, yes, a denigration of motherhood, or at least his mom) of one hour, my god reaction was to tell him under my breath: up yours, fatboy. I'm gonna do what make ME feel good. SCREW YOU. I only realized recently that I've actually been doing just that for years: IGNORING him and doing what made ME feel good. What feels good for me is what I still like to call Holy Name. I don't bother with Light. In order for me to see enough light to make it worthwhile, I would have to press so hard that the pain would cause a major distraction from the beautiful place I aspired to. Same thing with nectar. Too much physical effort. I do enjoy Music but I don't bother with my tiring my fingers or arms. I've always heard low levels of music without my fingers when I am in a really quiet room or out in the woods. As an extra bonus to myself, I just keep earplugs in my ears all night long. I've been doing that for over twenty years. Sometimes I use them for hours at a time at work also (I work as a computer programmer/analyst consultant). For me, I simply adore Holy Name. (I absolutely refuse to refer to it by the sterile, revisionist nom-de-slur currently touted by M and EV: the breath (coming from them, it reminds me too much of BAD BREATH). No, for me, it will always be HOLY NAME. I say that because for me, the beautiful place it consistently puts me into IS REAL, HONEST-TO-GOODNESS, TRUE HOLINESS in my book. I love it. I just absolutely love it. I do it every chance I get. Even when I'm waiting for a stoplight to change, I take advantage of those moments to feel its soothing quality pulsing thru me, loving me, caressing me from within. Sorry to the rest of you out there if this sounds suspiciously like I'm a secret agent of M doing an inside job on you, but I have to tell it like it is. Do you ever recall seeing pictures of St Francis of Assisi surrounded by all kinds of wild animals, all of them at rest and looking up at him? Well, we have an adoring little Shitsu and an affectionate calico cat. Sometimes, after my non-premie wife goes to bed early, I will meditate in the living room with the lights out. Oftentimes Misty and Muffin, normally at each others throats, will find the stillness and peacefulness irresistable and will climb up to me, each laying beside one of my thighs. At times like those, I do feel rather blessed, just a bit like St. Francis. So, for me, like it or not, HOLY NAME is my nearest and dearest all time best friend. Not because Rev Rat says it is but because over 30 years of focusing on it (did it for a year before receiving M's aversion of K) have made it so.

Leaving this for a moment... exes often describe exing as being the culmination of a long chain of 'drips' (the crudability gap between what the Brat says and what they found out he really does). One of the ones that dogged me for years (he's been saying this since at least '94 that I know of) is the incredibly callous, cold, and arrogant response to the question: M, should I love my neighbor? His answer (in case you were expected him to mimic Jesus's 'Love Thy Neighbor')? A simple: 'No.' Then he expands on it: 'I don't know my neighbor. I don't see my neighbor. And as far as I can see, I don't want to get know my neighbor.' I remember the smug, nodding, (yes we know what you really mean, Lard) grins from PWK's. Even though I understood the point he was trying to make, still, deep down inside my heart I was sad that my living lard of the universe master seemed to have absolutely no problem flaunting such a cold, callous, imperious attitude before his impressionable children. Nice. Real good example you're setting there, M. Just what the world needs - encouragement to ignore and dismiss the needs of your fellow human beings.

Anyway, all good things must pass (hopefully one big bad one too - and soon). I look forward to seeing you soon. Love you bro. - Steve

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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 21:15:48 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Steve Mueller
Subject: Yeah, but what does it do for you?
Message:
I mean what does it do for your life? I enjoyed 'holy name' as well and focused on that and not the other techniques so much when I was a premie, but what I found was that it didn't make one iota of difference to my life whether I did it or not. I might enjoy it for the 20 minutes I did it, but so what? To me, so much baggage went along with it, in terms of all the belief systems that are entwined with it, that it wasn't worth it.

'True holiness?' 'St. Francis of Assisi?' Come on. It's just meditation. It's just concentration and slowing your brain down. That's all it is. This might be very pleasurable to you, but I would be very careful about attaching all the colorful interpretations to it. As premies, we were extremely and thoroughly programmed and that dies hard.

I stopped doing meditation because I couldn't disassociate it with the fradulent Maharaji. I find I get the same experience when I concentrate on anything that I am interested in or love, and after that meditation seems kind of isolating and selfish. It seems to separate me from the rest of my life, other people, etc. Focusing on breath, in my opinion, is just another thing to focus on, and I personally don't see any reason to.

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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 08:48:28 (EST)
From: observer
Email: None
To: Steve Mueller
Subject: WOW! Brilliant, funny, insightful.LOL nt
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 04:03:29 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Steve Mueller
Subject: Brilliant post, Steve
Message:
You said it all for me too. About ignoring him and doing what felt right for you. About being what some people here called ''breath worshippers'' - me too - it's fabulous. About the ''love thy neighbor nonsese.''

Looking back at it all now I see that the hardcore inner circle of premies possibly always knew that Jaba the Hutguru was not a lover of mankind. I seldom trusted any of them. I wish I'd seen that Rawat was no better than most of his closest henchmen sooner.

Anyway, great post. Thanks.

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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 04:38:12 (EST)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Thanks, Pat and Steve
Message:
Yeah, I agree wholeheartedly, the one thing that I cannot deny is that I do like the peaceful easy experience of breath meditation when I do it.

Even better since I have separated and disassociated the connection of m to it.

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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 13:57:12 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Brian Smith
Subject: The elephant in the room
Message:
Those of us who stuck it out for up to 30 years did so because we were getting something out of it. Most PWKs seem to get more out of M than K but it was the other way around for me. Like Steve, I also preferred using Holy Name to the secretive and deceitful ''breath.''

I understand why Steve still uses the phrase. I also used it to Chuck and Andy after I exited. They understand me and realize that I am being poetical not religious but Andy does cringe whenever I use flambuoyant words to describe my feelings - calls them fireworks.

I haven't talked about it as bravely and openly on the forum as Steve did but it is still something that I thoroughly enjoy and it probably will be discussed more as more longterm premies arrive here.

The best explanation I have heard for breath meditation is that human beings are the only animals who constantly control their breath with the mind. Of course it functions autonomically just like all other air-breathing animals but it is tied up with our minds. We hold our breath sometimes when thinking hard or tense up in stressful situations and breathe shallowly. Supposedly the word ''human'' comes from a sanskrit root mean breath-mind.

The best writings I've read on it were by an hatha yoga teacher who called breath meditation ''tranquil breath'' which is my current favorite phrase. The goal is to breathe like a dog or a baby instead of holding our breath tensely.

I no longer call it Holy Name because of the religious connotations. What I am experienceing is relaxation not god. But whatever it is it's something that I simply enjoy as do quite a few recent exes and it will eventually be debated here. It's what kept most of us longtimers in.

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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 15:37:22 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Re: The elephant in the room
Message:
I used to like ''holy name'' but no longer use that term either. I also love the nectar technique now that I don't feel pressured to stick my tongue so far down my throat it hurts my jaws.

I find the tongue technique especially useful when I am working on something which requires deep concentration...something that requires my complete attention. It does work that way for me, but I don't taste anything sweet or anything like that.

I just do what I want now. Isn't it great?

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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 15:40:49 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Re: The elephant in the room
Message:
Tongue tech also releases tension in my neck. Yep, it's fun when it isn't a goddam religion and you don't think of it as god or any of that Maharajism BS.
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Date: Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 22:06:25 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Anandaji
Subject: Check this out
Message:
Hi Anandaji,

Here's a link you might find inneresting. It doesn't really address you're question so much, now that I think of it, but it IS inneresting.

Yes, by all means, I believe meditation can screw up one's natural pacing. Sometimes it's okay to deconstruct our minds, I guess, but often it isn't. Think 'drug'.
[ Page Link ]

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Date: Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 19:12:37 (EST)
From: Anandaji
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Check this out
Message:
Jim
---
You mentioned a link, but failed to send it.
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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 13:50:27 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I think I'm feeling better now
Message:
Without looking, I can tell you meditation causes brain activity, as measured in cycles per second (hertz) to SLOW DOWN. This happens not only when one is actively engaged in the meditative practise but the effect can last for hours. If one is meditating daily and as we used to try to do 'remembering the word' at times throughout the day, you could conceivably be in a constant state of slowed down brain activity.

Quickly, the three brain 'speeds' and the approximate cps are:

Beta: 15-45 hz Active awake thinking state

Alpha: 7-15 hz Meditation, daydreaming, watching TV

Theta: 7 and below sleep, deep meditation

One negative thing about being in alpha state all day is you are very suggestible. Also you might be wanting to get something down and you need 'Beta' for that. But alpha is very pleasant and our brain sure likes 'pleasant' and will go for that state over others if we let it.

The answer is balance, of course.

And this is a very simplistic explanation please understand.

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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 18:15:06 (EST)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: I love your Browser Type Gerry
Message:
where can I get one, or do you know if there are any of those 3 flies buzzing chainsaw mantra types available?

I hear those are very good for overiding static

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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 14:04:28 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: The pleasure of alpha brain waves
Message:
Your explanation made sense to me. And, yes, you do need balance if you want to function properly unless you live in an ashram and don't have to work but can gaze at your navel all day. ;)

I would be interested to know if alpha wave brain activity also makes one more susceptible to hypnotism. If so it would explain how guru-worshippers swallow their fakirs' bait hook, line and sinker.

PatC, the unrepentant pleasure-seeker.

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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 15:39:35 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Re: The pleasure of alpha brain waves
Message:
...if alpha wave brain activity also makes one more susceptible to hypnotism.

Anyway you get there, through suggestion and relaxation like hypnosis or meditation, TV, or by using binaural beat technology, when a person is experiencing alpha they are more suggestible than usual.

Rawat is a pro at inducing alpha and people learn to associate their feelings of pleasure with the guru. Rawat exploits this phenomena probably without understanding it.

I personally prefer binaural beat technology. I configure my own 'meditation' sessions on my computer to take me from beta down to theta and back. I use headphones and a long cord so I can lie on my bed and listen to the sound program for a half hour or whatever I want.

The key here is that I program my own session, I know what's in it and what it is doing to me. Also I bring myself back into beta activity before I end the session. That way I am not "lingering" in alpha (unless of course I want to do so, in which case I can change the program.) I like the precision, flexibility and the fact that I design the session to suit myself.

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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 15:47:40 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Brain chemistry
Message:
All this stuff is fascinating, gerry. I remember when eDrek posted that he had read that it can be induced by concentrating on the dome of the brain. I thought - good at last the mysticism BS is being taken out of yoga.

I must be dumb but could you explain your binaural beat technology?

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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 16:20:02 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: binaural beats
Message:
Pat,

The brain emits a measurable amount of energy in a pulsing manner, described in cycles per second. The brain responds to, and will match the rate of pulsation of many types of stimuli, in this case, sound.

The brain is pulsing at a rate of 1 to say, 50. Of course that would be below the threshold of human hearing so to create the desired interval we use a little trick on ourselves. Taking advantage of brain 'bi-lateralness' and stereo equipment we pump say, A 440 into the left ear and 450 into the other ear. The brain resolves the sound as the difference, or 10, and begins to pulsate at that rate.

When programming a session I set the speeds and time duration first. Then I can add some 'pink' or white or brown sound , a rainfall, birdies chirping, whatever. Even musical. I suppose one could even record positive suggestions to be heard during the alpha phase of the session.

It's a free download and a relatively small learning curve to learn to configure it. There's probably stuff on the website I linked with which some may disagree. I don't know, I read just enough to get the program working.

cheers
[ Dance to your own binaural beats ]

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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 17:04:25 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Re: binaural beats - thanks, gerry
Message:
I will take a look at it after work. Got to go and earn some money now and I need some real sharp beta waves for that. :C)
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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 07:25:53 (EST)
From: Salsa
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: where is the link? nt
Message:
n
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Date: Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 20:05:23 (EST)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Anandaji
Subject: Re: Do you still meditate???
Message:
It happened for me quite naturally. In the mid 80's my practice of K got down to about 5 -15 minutes per day, as the bond had fallen apart between me and the master. I saw it as meditation techniques, not any connection to the juju.

But then I learned meditation techniques from the Insight Meditation Society (derived from Therevadan Buddhist techniques by some Westerners), and you could just get together with a group of locals, and anyone who wanted to was told how to meditate and we just did it. And we would speak of our experiences of meditation, not the love of a guru. This was a democratic group -- some of whom had teachers, and some didn't, and the group was not aligned with any specific teacher. The Spirit Rock folks were invited to come by the group. But other teachers were invited and they gave instructions as well.

Then I studied Tibetan Buddhism with many teachers, although I had one main one. Somewhere along the line it occured to me that I didn't NEED a teacher, and so I ditched the one I had. (There were other reasons, but I want to stay on topic.) It was traditional Tibetan Buddhism, and in traditional Tibetan Buddhism, the guru is an important part, and I finally decided I was through with gurus.

During my rebellion phase, besides practicing the techniques I already knew, I got some John Kabat-Zinn tapes, and some tapes from Thich Nhat Hahn, Sister Jina and Sister Chan Khong, and used those. During the tape phase, I was too mentally and physically exhausted to even try to meditate, and didn't care too much about being a yogi. I also went to a retreat with Thich Nhat Hahn, and I enjoy some of the techniques I have learned from him. Many of them are in books, anyway, for those who are allergic to teachers.

I really enjoy meditating, but it was also a neurotic addiction that was drummed into me by the cult. If I left the house in the AM without meditating for example, there was guilt. I have worked to get out of that over the years. I have also worked to get out of the narcissistic navel-gazing that can happen from being so clamped on to 'my own experience.' But then there is an aspect of meditation that helps me to be in the present moment, and to be a bit kinder to others and less self-centered. If there is some good, that is enough reason for me to do it.

I think the danger comes when someone makes it into mystical juju, puts teachers on pedestals, and turns it into some cosmic whiz bang. And I truly believe that not everyone needs to do it. I think that there is a lot of hype around many things that we are encouraged to do, and I think therein lies the problem. What is meditation, really?

Some people do it to attain something, and that's another problem. Ah, we are going to get 'enlightened,' whatever that is!!!

Bests,

Francesca

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Date: Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 19:29:38 (EST)
From: Anandaji
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: Re: Do you still meditate??????
Message:
I appreciate what you say about meditation, especially the part where
you meditated with a democratic group.

Leading up to my December trip to see M in Maharaji, I had been
active in such a group in my church. We sit in a circle, meditate
for 30 minutes, then talk about our experience, as well as experience
with meditation during the week.

It is a nice circle and it feels very, very comforting and nice to be there. It was during this period, after having only done breath meditation for a long time
---
and feeling lazy and guilty for not doing the techniques
---
that I decided to try to use them again, after years of not doing so. I guess that is part of what led me back to M in Miami, hoping for a tune-up.

Now that I have returned home and discovered the life-changing EPO, I am questioning my participation in said group, because meditation for me now is so enmeshed with the entire M/K experience. I have only done 3 meditions since, two at the group and one other a day before the group.

I feel a lot of affirmation, acceptance and love in the group. But there is no heirarchy. Yet, it remains confusing.

Even the believe in the omnipresence of Maharaji, which, now, is just plain embarassing. So now I wonder about any omnipresence at all. I have read where some exes have become atheists, and I have to admit to understanding why. I went to a 'regular' church on Christmas Eve.
There was a banner on the wall. Some scripture like 'I am the way and the Live, no man gets to the Father but through me.' I felt like vomiting, if you know what I mean.

The other part of meditation which concerns me, and this is probably related the alpha/beta ray business some of the others have been posting about, it that I really struggle with real world motivation and acceptance, and I wonder what effect meditation has had on me in that regard. I am 57 and really need to get going on making some real world money.

thanks again.

Anandaji.

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Date: Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 19:40:36 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Anandaji
Subject: Yes, but K is BS
Message:
When I first exited the cult a year ago it was because of seeing that Rev Rawat was a fake but I still thought K was the Real Thing. Now I no longer believe that and do it for relaxation and experimentation but without the superstitious ideas of the Maharajism religion.

The fear that something bad would happen to me if I did not practice disappeared slowly and I realized that the bad experiences I had had in the past when I did NOT meditate were basically psychologocial. I expected to feel freaked by not ''practising'' so I did.

The breath tech is common to all meditations and is often called ''tranquil breath'' and is all about relaxation. As for the other techs - who knows? I'm an old psychedelic freak so I enjoy experimenting with altered states but I truly detest all the Hindu mumbo-jumbo and socalled spiritual stuff. It's brain chemistry.

The thing is to really trust your own ideas without forcing yourself to do anything that does not feel right for you. Welcome to the normal world where we make up our minds whether we want to do something or not. Have fun.

To me enlightenment is to get rid of the baggage of that monkey on my back called a ''master.'' I fell much lighter, thanks. :)

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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 05:16:05 (EST)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Giving up meditation
Message:
As you know Pat, I've found the fat fraud contemptible from the moment I first became aware of his activities, and would have nothing to do with him. That was back in the seventies, when he was just fourteen and almost cute.

In my early twenties, I learned the technique of za-zen, or sitting quietly doing nothing. Throssel Hole Priory in the far north of England, in Northumberland, is a branch of Shasta Abbey (yes, Mount Shasta in California). I stayed there for just a fortnight, meditating four or five hours a day. Za-zen is a lot like Holy-name but (at least the way I was taught it) without the superstitious bullshit.

I kept up the practice of za-zen for many years, although a soon dropped my time spent practicing to just an hour a day. I found it kept me emotionally stable, something I badly needed then. So, for many years practicing meditation served to make me less weird (an important consideration!).

As the years went by, I realised that the practice was no longer making me more human, more like other people, but was beginning to separate me from my fellows. So I tried to stop. And couldn't! The effort of giving up the habit was enormous. Still, I persevered in my efforts, and eventually was able to live my life and deal with the world without the crutch of daily meditation.

Now I meditate on demand, so to speak. When I feel like it, I breath slowly and deeply from my diaphragm while paying attention to my breath, perhaps counting the exhalations.

It seems most ex-premies need to stop meditating for a while at least in order to break its association with the poisonous and vicious Rawat. But having done that, I get the impression many feel free like yourself to use the techniques as they please, as part of a mental health regime.

JohnT
- never a premie

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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 14:16:04 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: JohnT
Subject: Re: Giving up meditation
Message:
As I just speculated to Gerry above: Does the alpha brain wave state induced by meditation make one more susceptible to hypnotism? If so it explains the strong hold that Jaba the Hutguru and other gurus have over their devotees.

Yes, it is essential to practice it according to one's own understanding and definitely not something some idiotic immoral guru should be interfering in.

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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 14:32:04 (EST)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Spacing out
Message:
MrsT and I held our wedding reception in the Croydon Buddhist Centre, where the table service was done by a buch of spaced out hard-core meditators. They were all very nice, of course, but I wouldn't say they were suggestable. Whatever one suggested one might like to have, it bore no resemblance to what actually arrived!

I've noticed the same thing when eating at the Hare Krishna restaurant in Soho, just off Soho Square. You have to really keep an eye on the staff there or there is no saying what they will pass over the counter to you. It's always good food, so it doe not much matter, but I do wonder how they can make it pay!

Seriously tho, I would say an alpha brain state does make a person more susceptible to suggestion. Heck! People believe the shit the TV tells them. What clearer proof could anyone ask for!

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Date: Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 19:22:31 (EST)
From: PatD
Email: None
To: Anandaji
Subject: Re: Do you still meditate?
Message:
I haven't meditated since finding out about the man behind the Man,& haven't experienced bad effects.(well over a year)

Before that when I went without periods of meditation which were far shorter, I always got uneasy & had to go back to it.I think now that the reason for that was the deeply ingrained belief that I was blowing my chances vis a vis the cosmic order if I didn't.

I'm still aware of my breath (thank god,if there is one)but after a lifetime of self training to do so, I think I'll just have to live with that. Certainly, trying not to out of some sort of backlash mentality would lead to madness.

Apparently there are 9 techniques in the tradition which Shri Hans simplified. I know very little about this stuff & am more than willing for others to make the practical experiments on themselves & report back,but I've got a hunch.

I think that getting as close to the edge without going over it may be what they're all about. Inducing a near death experience or something like that.

Some people may be more susceptible than others. I remember being quite envious once on one of those very rare occasions when premies talk to each other about what they actually experience in meditation.

This girl (shit,that dates it) told me that she couldn't do the music because she felt herself lifted up into a void inside her head & that the sensation totally freaked her out. I tried to give her satsang about it,but couldn't help thinking 'why hasn't that happened to me,must be some sort of schmuck etc'.

I'm so naive I only found out quite recently that some people go in for asphyxtiation(sp) when they're having sex because it intensifies the sensation. Who sussed that one out? Beats me,but for sure humans have been fiddling about with themselves for a very long time.

All the Best : Pat Dorrity

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Date: Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 14:05:36 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Anandaji
Subject: Re: Do you still meditate?
Message:
Hi Anandaji,

My personal preference when I first exited was to not meditate because of the close association between ''meditation'' or ''practicing'' and the Captain. Everyone is different in this regard. The guilt instilled in us by m to meditate was another incentive for me NOT to meditate. I try to use nature to calm myself when anxiety happens. I also look to other humans who are nice to me for comfort.

Your difficulty coping and making decisions may be due to your recent exit from the cult. There's so much baggage that came with being a premie. It is as if upon leaving, I opened up that big 'ole suitcase of gopi juju, guru worship, and starting throwing things away. A process of sorting through the stuff in that suitcase and deciding what was healthy for me to keep and healthy to throw away.

It's something each individual ex-premie must work through. Some here do practice some form or another of meditation.

Me? I like to use the breath technique on occasion, but I never sit down and ''formally'' spend an hour with any techniques.

It's great to feel guilt-free. If you feel as if you are floating, maybe you are dissociating, but I can't judge that based upon a forum conversation. Don't count out some counseling if you feel the need. But make sure the counselor is not a member of any cultic organizations, and if you're lucky, you may find someone who actually knows/understands something about exiting cults.

Meanwhile, I have provided a link to EPO's webpage which offers very good sites such as reFocus Network, Trancenet and the Rick Ross site.

All are good reading and explain a lot.

http://www.ex-premie.org/pages/links.htm

Best,
Cynthia
[ Misc. ex-Cult Support Sites ]

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Date: Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 13:13:11 (EST)
From: Pullaver
Email: None
To: Anandaji
Subject: Re: Do you still meditate?
Message:
An experience of sublime satisfaction is indeed present for all who seek it. The con is that m wants you to become dependent on him to know it. That is why is m has consistently denigrated his followers and has demonstrated his complete lack of care and responsibility towards them.
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Date: Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 06:59:39 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: Anandaji
Subject: Not really
Message:
I guess it's been about six months since I came here and got my socks blown off. I've practiced a couple times, at first to see if it still 'worked' without unquestioning belief in the master or if I would spontaniously combust.

Pat C explained the proper order of practicing the techniques and I tried that. It is much nicer. I don't feel so groggy afterwards.
And I had always used the breath technique as a warm up anyway.

I don't have anything against the techniques now, it's just that I'm not formally meditating and I feel much better. I can't tell you how freeing it is not to have the guilt because I started the day without meditating, or fearing some catastrophe would fall on my head.

It was very hard after breaking away to face the world without the coccoon of knowledge. It was downright scary. I think that's just the depth of dependence we had been led to under the guise of having faith in the master/teacher/speaker/lord incarna

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Date: Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 06:37:20 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Anandaji
Subject: Meditation.
Message:
Hi Anandji,

That's an interesting question. I'm not sure what you mean by 'meditate'.

When I was a premie, meditation comprised of two things. One was doing the techniques, and the other was believing that what I experienced was the Divine Light, my real self, nectar, knowledge of my true self, God etc.

So believing that the pretty patterns I was seeing when I pressed my eyeballs were beyond time and space was an integral part of the experience, in the same way, believing the philandering alcoholic master was the living Perfect Master.

For a premie, meditation, like the Perfect Master, requires belief to sustain it.

So if you stop believing, which I did, you're left with the techniques. The only time I do any of the techniques nowadays, is to make a point. Hang on, I'll poke my eyes for a minute.

Yup. It's all still there- pretty patterns and fairy lights. Trouble is, I don't believe anymore, so that's all they are- patterns and lights in my eyes. Same with the other techniques. They don't fill me with inner peace, inspiration or anything of the kind. More they're the props left laying on the ground after the con trick has been exposed.

I stopped meditating three and a half years ago, and the effects have been most beneficial. I'll list a few.

I feel better within myself, and more in touch with who I really am.

I no longer have feelings of guilt when I go to sleep without practising.

I get more sleep.

I'm a happier, more complete human being.

I don't have to believe that God tastes of snot, and sounds like blood rushing through my eardrums.

Most of the premies don't even bother to practise most of the time. I think Rawat realised this, and cut the recommended eye poking session from 2 hours a day to an hour a day.

I don't think the Captain meditates either.

So, overall, I think if you seperate it from the beliefs, is it's a waste of time and you can get on just as well without it.

I don't think there's anything to be afraid of Anandji. Having difficulty coping, making decisions, and living in the everday world is pretty much part of being a human being. There are lots of positive aspects to living in the world of dastardly senses too- like watching a beautiful sunset, making love to a beautiful woman, drinking a glass of good wine, having fun with friends and family, watching England beat Germany 5-1 at soccer, having a laugh, etc etc.

I know some exes still do the techniques, but personally, I think there are much better things to do with your time.

Take care, it only gets better.

Anth, no longer one of the three wise monkeys.

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Date: Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 11:33:45 (EST)
From: Anandaji
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Re: Meditation.
Message:
Thank you for your responses.

By 'meditation' I mean any type of stillness seeking inner journey,
be it our techniques, Christian contemplation, yoga, candle gazing,
or whatever. With or without a perceived omnipresent 'master'.

Clearly a big part of my/our paradigm is that this is a worthwhile
practice, to find the 'kingdom of heaven within,' etc.

So now I am questioning whether any of this is valid, or if it is all just a bunch of old age/new age hooey.

I am grateful for your input.

Anandaji

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Date: Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 14:40:40 (EST)
From: Lesley
Email: None
To: Anandaji
Subject: God is in Heaven, and all's right with the world
Message:
Town criers used to go round the streets calling that, along with the time, I believe, not all that long ago.

Once out of the cult, even though I had pretty quickly decided that having had a good look at a living Master, I wasn't interested in dead ones either, I went through a period of tremulous uncertainty.

I realised that my sense of safety had been affected in a very basic way by my childhood inculcation into the belief in God and Heaven, and in my thinking, I was challenging that, hence the uncertainty.

Funnily enough, within a few weeks of telling God to shove it, I realised that my fears had shrunk to human size. It is much more comfortable to fear death than eternal damnation. It is much more comfortable to need eachother than some pompous capricious twit on a cloud.

My theory, which I do believe in, is that the god to whom people pray is nothing more or less than 'that feeling', which is what we experience when we basically just 'feel' eachother. A tool, an ability which means we can work closely together, the same one birds or fish or herds of animals demonstrate when they wheel in flight, etc.

So when you sit to meditate, imo, it is the equivalent of masturbation, useful on occasion, but bad to do in excess and particularly bad to do instead of forming bonds with other members of the human race.

Lesley, the pompous primate.

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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 04:13:10 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Lesley
Subject: Re: God is in Heaven
Message:
I've enjoyed quite a few of your posts lately and should have let you know that I like your writing a lot. Nice and unpredictable.

''God is in heaven....'' is one of my favorite phrases. Of course I'd rephrase it slightly and say: ''If there is a god I hope it stays in heaven and doesn't interfere with my business here on earth.''

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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 04:38:17 (EST)
From: Robert Browning
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Song, from Pippa Passes
Message:
    The year's at the spring
    And day's at the morn;
    Morning's at seven;
    The hillside's dew-pearled;

    The lark's on the wing;
    The snail's on the thorn;
    God's in his heaven--
    All's right with the world!

posted by
JohnT
- never a premie

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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 14:18:17 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Robert Browning
Subject: Thanks, JohnT
Message:
I should have known that you would know where that came from.
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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 15:26:31 (EST)
From: Lesley
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Re: Thanks, JohnT
Message:
Yes, thanks John, do you know if he penned the phrase or used it for his poem?

Pat, I do think being in an alpha wave state makes one suggestible, if slow on thinking it out!

Mr Porkie Pie tells people to drop the questions and accept the answers. I remember when, in the early days of being a premie, I twigged that this was not just empty rhetoric, that a result ensued, I felt blissed out; so I assumed (wonder why) that this was the way to keep God happy, and me on the way to Heaven.

I watched the opera on the telly last night, having fidgeted through a few operas as a child, I have been somewhat lacking in appreciation, but last night I was drawn in by the sound; rich and comforting.

The camera is not kind, they looked like a bunch of wooden apoplectic loonies; it must be really quite hard to try and act as well as sing like that, but sing they did, and I liked it.

Cheers, Pat, Lesley.

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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 18:17:10 (EST)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: Lesley
Subject: Original, I think
Message:
... do you know if he penned the phrase or used it for his poem?

I really don't know. I've never studied literature as such, I just read poems and stuff and it had never occured to me to wonder, until you asked. FWIW, my guess is that the Robert Browning originated the lines God's in his heaven, All's right with the world.

Although artists reuse and reinterpret each others ideas, plagiarism is a no-no, and Browning certainly had no need to stoop to it!

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Date: Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 13:34:45 (EST)
From: Lesley
Email: None
To: JohnT
Subject: Common usage rather than plagiarism
Message:
I have this impression that the phrase was in common usage, like 'there's many a slip twixt cup and lip'. Seeing as I am associating it with town criers, did I get this from books and movies, or did they really use the phrase - Browning is more recent than that isn't he? Hmm well maybe not, all I can think of is Elizabeth Barratt reclining on a chaise longue, now that definitely must be a movie!
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Date: Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 19:52:27 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Lesley
Subject: The Barretts of Wimpole Street
Message:
There are two versions of ''The Barretts of Wimpole Street''

The first, which I have seen, starred:

Norma Shearer .... Elizabeth Barrett
Fredric March .... Robert Browning
Charles Laughton .... Edward Moulton-Barrett

It was made in 1934

The second starred:

Jennifer Jones .... Elizabeth Barrett
John Gielgud .... Edward Moulton-Barrett
Bill Travers .... Robert Browning

It was made in 1957

I only just found this out when I looked up the first one on the The Internet Movie Database

Browning may have been quoting or at least paraphrasing something from the King James Bible or from Shakespeare.

It's amazing how many adages we use which come from Shakespeare, most of them from Polonius' lecture to his son (''Neither a borrower nor a lender be'' etc.) All much more sensible, practical and useful stuff than anything from any of Rev Rawat's sermons.

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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 15:35:37 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Lesley
Subject: Which opera, Lesley?....OT
Message:
Opera needs to be filmed differently. The heavy make-up does not suit the camera. Most opera singers are terrible actors which is why Maria Callas is still worshipped. She could act as well as sing.

I think I'll sue Rawat for the money I gave to him instead of spending it on opera tickets the way god meant me to. ;)

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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 15:54:51 (EST)
From: Lesley
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Missed the title
Message:
Don Alvaro and Leonora had a romance which Papa didn't like. Don Alvaro had a brilliant duet sung from a stretcher with a bullet in his chest after saving everyone on the battlefield.

Now, Mel Gibson woulda looked very convincing, but can he sing?

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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 17:10:07 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Lesley
Subject: The Force of Destiny - Mozart
Message:
La Forza del destino. Not one of my favorites except for the ensemble singing. Must have been a ''modern'' production.

Just saw Mel in ''What Women Want.'' Almost as good as an old Doris/Rock romantic comedy.

Treat yourself to some Puccini soon. Turandot is out in a new made for TV video.

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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 00:31:15 (EST)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Lesley
Subject: WONDERFUL post Lesley, especially this bit
Message:
I just loved this:
Funnily enough, within a few weeks of telling God to shove it, I realised that my fears had shrunk to human size. It is much more comfortable to fear death than eternal damnation. It is much more comfortable to need eachother than some pompous capricious twit on a cloud.

Yes, it is funny how relieved I am to have life be, uh, life!

I was telling a friend that we create an object of gratitude and call it god (or guru, or whatever). It's like 'god loves me.' Something good happened, oh, it's god's grace. There was a feeling in my heart and I knew it was god. Nature is wonderful and yes, it was made by god. Whatever goes on, whatever connection we feel to something larger than ourselves (even if it includes ourselves) we call it 'god.' Pretty soon we're bowing down to it and dancing before it with baskets of flowers.

Tra-la!

Love,

F

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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 15:43:03 (EST)
From: Lesley
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: I'm back to worshipping stone idols now
Message:
Hi Fran,
Seriously, I am. Well, serious and silly. It occurred to me yesterday, as I lovingly shaped the clay, that them stone worshipping pagans had it right, if the latest theory of the origins of carbon based life being silica is correct! love Lesley
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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 17:39:12 (EST)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Lesley
Subject: I luv my silica! :) :~) [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 13:34:13 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Anandaji
Subject: Watch more TV and eat more meat.
Message:
Hi Ananadaji,

I think it all comes down to the same equation. If you seperate belief from experience, ie, remove the 'hooey', be it candle gazing, belief that God listens especially hard to you when you close your eyes and put your hands together,etc there's nothing special left on the plate.

The 'master' bit is just another bit of 'hooey'.

Anyway, what's the big hurry to see God. If she exists, we'll have eternity to look at her after we're dead. It's not like she's going anywhere.

I find I get on much better in life without all this baggage.

I also think this concept of the 'inner journey' is a load of twaddle too.

If god wanted us to transcend the creation, and become merged with the infinite (which we presumably were once anyway), why bother creating it in the first place?

You could do an experiment. Forget the meditation, inner journey stuff for a year, and see if you're better off than when you did it. It worked for me.

I watch the sunset every evening, and it's far more beautiful and spectacular than anything I ever saw when I was on an 'inner journey' poking myself in the eyes every morning and night.

As my wise old butcher said, 'Forget meditating. Watch TV and eat more meat.'

Anth the fromage de tete.

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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 10:22:03 (EST)
From: A fluffy little lamb
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: T.V. I've got no objections to but..
Message:
there might not be a God but us animal folk are real and would rather not be eaten :(
Thank u very much.
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Date: Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 06:19:47 (EST)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Anandaji
Subject: It doesn't matter
Message:
It really makes no difference if you do or if you don't meditate, you are alive and free of the cult and m that is what counts. Just appreciate yourself as much as possible now by regaining control of your self will and destiny.

Don't stress out about meditation, you are not in the cult anymore and that sounds like old cult tapes playing to me.

My experience of being in a cult and surrendering my life for so long (29 yrs) to another person who posed as a false diety created many coping issues. I understand your fears but try not to be afraid they will pass in time, mine did. The anxiety you are experiencing is quite normal while engaging the process of breaking free from deeply embedded concepts.

Please keep in mind that you are dealing with heavy issues here so I kindly suggest you do not rule out professional counseling if needed, there are many resources available on the net and in your city as well I'm sure.

I experienced similar disjointed feelings and emotions for quite a few weeks, then as I settled into my own understanding and went through many layers of emotions I came to a point of standing up and claiming responsibility for my own soul and life journey from here on out.

Sometimes I meditate, sometimes I don't, it is simply a matter of choice now, my personal experience does not hinge on meditation. What does make a difference is that I live with integrity and act with thoughtful intention, and that I trust my own instincts and wisdom to do the right thing for myself and others in my life.

I can and will admit mistakes without flogging myself today but at the same time I will not become anyone's doormat either. I am also learning to love and forgive myself, when I was very young I believe I did so quite naturally, now I am rediscovering my own personal self confidence and beauty once again.

Give yourself time, get help where ever you can and however you need it. Express yourself and your feelings openly and honestly and use the forum as a place to spread your wings.

I wish you a safe journey Anandaji
Brian

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Date: Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 11:59:38 (EST)
From: Chris
Email: None
To: Brian Smith
Subject: aye - nice Brian, thanks
Message:
thanks again for sharing that, too

cheers,
Chris, the vixen with a vigilantly vengeant vision, finally

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Date: Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 20:23:23 (EST)
From: Anandaji
Email: None
To: Chris
Subject: Thanks everyone
Message:
I want to thank everyone who so kindly, generously, and, often humorously, responded to my request for feedback re meditation.

This is my first month of transformation, so it really does help a great deal to hear the answers to my huge questions.

Incorporating your opinions and my own intuition (as rocked as that may presently be), I will for a time limit my meditations to the church group to which I belong, as I think the pleasant connection I feel to them is as close as I want to get to believing in anything abstract for a while. The warm feeling is worthy of note.

The rest of the time, I shall endeavor to rejoin life, love my wife and progeny, go for walks, reunite with the sensual world and try like hell to make some money.

BTW
---
I received a mailing from Visions International today. The
cover: 'It's the amazing New Year's Inventory Sale!'

BARFOLA! I can't stand another minute of this. What's next phone solicitionas during the dinner hour?

Blissings,

Anandaji

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Date: Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 20:40:33 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Anandaji
Subject: Sounds good
Message:
I guess I joined the cult for the wrong reason - because I thought that the premies were very lovable and that neighborly love and community was important.

It's much more fun to enjoy living human beings rather than an abstract idea. Good luck and know that it just keeps getting better as you find your own self-confidence which was probably eroded by having a ''master.''

At least I know that mine was. I was living in a shell mostly because of being ashamed of Rawat. I don't have any answers and don't want any but I'm free. It's great anough to just be alive.

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Date: Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 15:00:39 (EST)
From: Pauline Premie
Email: None
To: All
Subject: I am still here.....
Message:
Don't you love Maharaji's new website? It's so neato cool, and I can spend hours just chasing those little boxes around. Maharaji just loves us so much to give us fun things like that to fill our otherwise empty lives, while we are waiting for the next event.

But I did get a little depressed, er, I mean confused, when I saw that the premies are so unsynchronized that they are letting all those websites fall into wreck and ruin. I mean, they were so great in responding to all the hateful and confused ex-premies. I know that Pia tragically died, but those premies said they would carry on with It Ain't So, but now, oh my god, it's a SEX SITE!!! How horrible. This world is just so crazy and confused to do something like that. Probably Jim Heller is behind it. I mean, I heard he went over to France and got Maharaji in trouble or something. So hateful.

And I have to assume that the Andersen twins had some kind of family emergency or something to let their Please Consider This website disappear overnight. Maybe Erika's daughter got arrested again or something, or maybe David smashed his finger with a piano lid, who knows? It must have been something terrible and I wish them the best.

Whatever happened to Charles Glasser Jr, an attorney at some highbrow New York law firm? His Truth About Maharaji site just isn't what it used to be. It really put you ex-premies in your place, but now, it's all toned down, and you can't even tell who did it. It's still beautiful, though. What happened to Charles? He must be preoccupied with other things right now. He won't return my emails. He say's I'm a bongo. Bitch.

I guess it's now up to premies like me to set the record straight and answer the false allegations, now that everyone else has disappeared or spaced out.

I have to admit that I was one of the people who posted as 'SC' for a couple of years. I had no idea there were TWELVE of us! Wow! That took more synchronization than I thought! It was kind of fun, and very synchronized, don't you think?

One of the people who posted as 'SC' is a 'super-premie' who actually hangs around Maharji, so he is more enlightened than most of us. I am so envious of him. I heard Maharaji regularly visits his house to personally pick up large checks. Isn't it great that Maharaji is just so loving? I, on the other hand, got thrown off the residence grounds and told never to return after I leaned on one of Maharaji's cars at the delapidated residence. It must be because I am not surrendered enough, but I pray some day I will be. I'm sure it's not because I only donated $43.96 last year, because I was broke and living in the trunk of my car. I'm also sure that has nothing to do with the fact that I have never been closer than the 126th row at events. It's just a coincidence, I know.

But I wanted to say that any connection between me and anyone else who posts on this forum is completely coincidental, untrue, false, and anyone who thinks I am connected in any way to any miserable ex-premie, lacks that understanding, and certainly is not having the experience of that love.

I guess maybe Pat remembers me from my days in the ashram, I mean from my days in the shelter protecting me from death and destruction caused by the dangerous 'drug culture', which existed from 1971, but ended in 1983, when, by the grace of the world's most selfless pilot, by the grace he who does not even own the $30 million Gulfstream IV jet he flies, Maharaji closed them down because they were no longer necessary to protect us.

But in response to some of the ex's allegations, I was going through some old Divine Times the other day, just to find more proof that Maharaji has not changed his message one iota from when he arrived here in 1971.

For example, printed in the April, 1980 edition of the Divine Times, a publication of the very un-cult-like Elan Vital, is an except of a speech the Speaker who never claimed to be God not even once, gave in Hialeah, Florida, at DECA, where followers of Maharaji were participating in a synchronized fashion to convert a Boeing 707 jetliner for Maharaji's use, but which he did NOT own. It was owned by a separate corporation, even the gold toilet. Here is what he said:

But I mean the devotee's prayer to Guru Maharaj Ji always is, 'Oh Guru Maharaj Ji, you are all-powerful, you are all merciful. Save me. Give me that help that I need in my life.'

You have to have that understanding in order to see what Maharaji (who, by his supreme love, eliminated the 'Guru' in his name a mere 15 or so years after her arrived in the West (in no time, really)), is saying.

Nothing in that statement would indicate to anyone that Maharaji was claiming to be God or a Savior, or a Supreme Being, and nothing even suggests that his followers should pray to him. It's just confused ex-premies who would ever say such nonsense.

Now that Maharaji has eliminated the words 'guru' and 'devotee,' all those cultural misunderstandings, which Western followers may have gotten because they we are nothing more than putrid swamp gas, have been eliminated.

So, be warned ex-premies. Even though SC has disappeared somewhere into the Australian outback, I am still here, and I'm not about to let you slimeballs get away with saying untruths about my 'master' who is the 'speaker' and also a great pilot and watch collector who has made some successful investments in his time. Why, I bet he was so smart and so successful that he bought Microsoft when it was $7 and that's why he has that yacht and Daya has a restaurant.

Pauline

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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 08:51:04 (EST)
From: GMJ
Email: None
To: Pauline Premie
Subject: Paula, what you doing after the video tonight? nt
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 06:42:34 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Pauline Premie
Subject: LOL (nt)
Message:
You're funny Pauline.
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Date: Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 14:40:10 (EST)
From: The Maharaji of Malibu's
Email: None
To: All
Subject: paid ACTORS for Propogation
Message:
It would be very, very interesting to be able to debrief these actors who were used to show the culties how to Spread this K in the KIT brainwashing.

For instance, someone in the cult had to give them some info about M and K. What were they told by this high ranking cult official?

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Date: Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 13:18:50 (EST)
From: Pullaver
Email: None
To: The Maharaji of Malibu's
Subject: Re: paid ACTORS for Propogation
Message:
Someone's got to provide work for Cheech and Chong and Phylis Diller.
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Date: Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 00:26:04 (EST)
From: Chris
Email: None
To: The Maharaji of Malibu's
Subject: IT WAS SCRIPTED
Message:
Sorry folks, but this is a fast train in the wrong direction. I sorely need to and must clarify:

I don't know that these hired actors WEREN'T pwk's or aspirants.

I can say, tho, that the script was very introductory in nature, meaning they were not saying 'I went to see the Perfect Master on the weekend' - which is a deceiving, slightly less than honest cult recruitment tactic

It was the same basic script repeated about 6 times with only a few variations in the LINES DELIVERED each time. And very minor variations at that, which to me, says the whole thing is really groping

Introducing the possibility of K has been reduced to the art of delivering lines.....

Chris

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Date: Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 00:48:38 (EST)
From: Chris
Email: None
To: Chris
Subject: IT WAS SCRIPTED
Message:
Sorry folks, but this is a fast train in the wrong direction. I sorely
need to and must clarify:

I don't know that these hired actors WEREN'T pwk's or aspirants.

I can say, tho, that the script was very introductory in nature, meaning they were not saying 'I went to see the Perfect Master on the weekend' - which is a deceiving, slightly less than honest cult recruitment tactic

It was the same basic script repeated about 6 times with only a few
variations in the LINES DELIVERED each time. And very minor variations
at that, which to me, says the whole thing is really groping

Introducing the possibility of K has been reduced to the art of
delivering lines.....

Chris

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Date: Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 18:44:49 (EST)
From: Suzie
Email: None
To: The Maharaji of Malibu's
Subject: Re: paid ACTORS for Propogation
Message:
What I think is weird is that they used paid actors at all. Whatever happened to the whole idea that knowledge is supposed to shine from the inside out and be visible to people? How come Maharaji couldn't trust his own students to talk about knowledge?

This must be in line with his decision that premies weren't capable of giving satsang anymore (except maybe a select few who were properly indoctrinated). I suppose those actors were just given a script to read that Maharaji (probably not) or somebody at Dudly Dorite Productions wrote and which was given to them. So, they might not have been told much about the whole K & M.

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Date: Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 21:36:42 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Suzie
Subject: Shining...
Message:
Hello Suzie,

I'm glad to meet you here. What you said got me to thinking...:

What I think is weird is that they used paid actors at all. Whatever happened to the whole idea that knowledge is supposed to shine from the inside out and be visible to people? How come Maharaji couldn't trust his own students to talk about knowledge?

Well, the sorry truth is that there is no ''Maharaji or Knowledge.'' It's a fraud and a hoax and maharaji is a conman.

Everything that maharaji has done over the past 30 years has been an evolution/revisionism...call it what you want. The thing that brought me to knowledge/maharaji was the community of premies, who, as it turns out, as we meet new exes, who have seen the light, halleluya, maharajism is a cult. And thank whatever in the universe of people who have courage to explain it year after year, to debunk it: Maharajism: cult. No doubts.

I'm one of those folks here on the forum who tells people they are in a cult, or were in a cult. That negates everything that he as the LOTU, Master, Perfect Master, now a mere human being who wants to now lead a life to his own liking, ''it's time for me,'' which he has lived since he stepped foot on the western hemisphere, he, is the one who makes no sense. He is the culprit. The pranster mortal bad guy.

Learning to understand his nonscience (sic on me) is: fun, educational, confrontational, irresistable, argumentative and begging to criticised, and plainly pathetic.

I am so happy to hear (read really) new voices here on the forum. You, Suzie, have good questions. You probably have tremendous answers, too.

Welcome aboard the ship, the one that doesn't sink())())())())

Best,
Cynthia J. Gracie
Vermont USA

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Date: Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 19:49:19 (EST)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Suzie
Subject: I Suspect
Message:
that any PAM who could be trusted to publically represent the boss would be so transparently Gaa Gaa and Gushy over the Goober so as to be totally unbelievable by the savvy public of today. It is a different world today, people are much more informed and unbridled devotion towards a guru is not going to play well.

I also suspect that he would be hard pressed to find anyone close to him who can still muster up the true shining heartfelt message after being exposed to the cult workings from the inside out.

A professional actor with no background to draw on other than the script he is directed by and paid to deliver can be depended on to do it better.

It has gotten easier today to fake devotion by an unadultereated actor than it is for a real premie around maharaji to believably subject and override his emotions with a torrent of passionate platitudes. I am giving credit to the innate ability here for everyone PAM's included to detect and call bullshit.

I know that some can get in pretty deep but I honestly believe that there is still a place of courage and truth inside that haunts them.

I may be overly optomistic on this point but it can only be denied for so long, and m can't have that sort of thing showing up in his presentations, so why risk it.

It is a sad state of affairs the cult is in today. Premies have been taken out of the propagation loop at all levels. It just proves the point that there is really no need for premies at all other than to send in money and worship the Boss.

Leave the rest to the DVD player and the expensive PR firm and watch how m continues to shoot himself in the lotus feet.

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Date: Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 06:16:35 (EST)
From: Mirror
Email: mirror@universalmail.com
To: Brian Smith
Subject: Re: I Suspect
Message:
that any PAM who could be trusted to publically represent the boss would be so transparently Gaa Gaa and Gushy over the Goober so as to be totally unbelievable by the savvy public of today. It is a different world today, people are much more informed and unbridled devotion towards a guru is not going to play well.


---

I fully agree... I'd like to quote two dear cyber friends regarding this issue (a buddhist and a nondualist, both have nothing to do with M. whatsoever).

These days the method is changing. The entire topology of teaching has spread everywhere, much too quickly for the guru model. That model will never catch up. Instead of the message proceeding one-to-many (guru to disciples), the topology is now many-to-many, and it cannot be stopped. It's gaining momentum all the time. These days, the message is transmitted via friendship and the benefits of technology. People are saying the same things on the telephone and e-mail that previous generations had to drop everything and journey afar to hear.
-Gregory Goode

It is so funny how easily people accept that an Adi Da or Osho or Gurdjieff or Krishnamurti is/was awakened or realized and how the prospect of ones neighbor or informal correspondent being awakened or realized is so threatening, so unthinkable for most of us. Of all our self-images, the one called 'Seeker' is the most tenacious, as if the prospect of losing this identity was tantamount to death itself -- and the acceptance that someone we actually know has shed that comfortable label for well and good seems to be the Seeker-ego's worst nightmare.
-Bruce Morgen

Love,
Mirror
[ Page Link ]

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Date: Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 06:53:28 (EST)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Mirror
Subject: Re: I Suspect this as well
Message:
It is quite threatening to acknowledge ones friends or mainly oneself as an equal opportunity awakener isn't it.

The truth is if enlightenment or awakening is possible (for lack of a better term) it is possible for everyone everywhere not just a few exalted pedestal sitters to be fawned over by the masses of committed seekers complacent in that comfort zone.

And yes it is possible to awaken, beyond separating myself from GMJ and the cult, I also had an unexpected shift of consciousness last year. I acknowledge what you are saying and I recognize where you are coming from.

Thank you Mira,

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Date: Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 05:04:06 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Maharaji gives up on the internet
Message:
Well almost (in my opinion). I had the following exchange with David Roupell on LG:-

Posted: Thurs, Jan 03, 2002 at 16:55:34 (EST)
Original: Tues, Jan 01, 2002 at 20:14:14 (EST)
Posted by: JHB
Recipient: DR
Email Address: Not Provided
Browser Type: Mozilla/4.72 [en] (Win98; I)

Subject: what did Maharaji say?

Message:

David,

Have you noticed that almost all the pro-Maharaji websites are either disappearing or slimming down. CAC and It-aint-so disappeared. Thetruthaboutmaharaji, elanvital.org, and Maharaji's site are all shadows of their former selves, and now you're telling us that generally, there's a wind down feeling. Now sychronicity's one thing, but this looks like agya to me.

So, David, what did Maharaji say about using the internet?

John.

David responded:-

Posted: Thurs, Jan 03, 2002 at 20:32:38 (EST)
Original: Thurs, Jan 03, 2002 at 16:55:34 (EST)
Posted by: DR
Recipient: JHB
Email Address: Not Provided
Browser Type: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Mac_PowerPC)

Subject: I'm sorry John

Message:

But I keep my communications with M private these days. I used to tell everyone everything so they'd think I had a real tight scene going with him. Since it has become genuinely tight, there's no more flag waving to do. He's never asked me to NOT tell people about things, but ever since he 'joined' my family by becoming honourary godfather to one of my daughters, we keep it simple and personal.

If there's seven or more people around when he's waxing lyrical then I usually share it. The last informal time I was with him there was only five in the vicinity so...

But you're absolutely right about the internet. Soon there will basically be ex-premie.org and its little satellite sites and ex-premie.org and its little satellite sites and ex-premie.org and its little satellite sites and ex-premie.org and its little satellite sites.

Oh well, guess we'll all be happy - you won't have to **** with the premie cult anymore and we won't have to **** with the ex-premie cult anymore...

and my response:-

Posted: Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 04:49:07 (EST)
Original: Thurs, Jan 03, 2002 at 20:32:38 (EST)
Posted by: JHB
Recipient: DR
Email Address: Not Provided
Browser Type: Mozilla/4.72 [en] (Win98; I)

Subject: So it was agya then

Message:

Thanks David for the info. I for one am happy that Maharaji has given up on the internet. Ex-premies' dominance on the internet basically means no new premies where the internet is widely available, and as Maharaji isn't interested in poorer countries, he's decided just to milk the remaining premies until they're dead or dry (or see the light!).

Good luck with your 'Godfather', and ask yourself, what are the chances of you being in his inner circle if you were poor.

John.

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Date: Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 14:59:06 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: That's not all he's giving up.
Message:
Hi John,

The Captain is in a bad way. He's turning into a paranoid recluse. Did you know that people receive knowledge via a DVD nowadays?

The cult is crumbling. Members are leaving. New members soon sniff 'cult' and don't stick around. The cult is also have an immense problem with presenting themselves.

It's not so difficult to sell 'knowledge' as some techniques to give you mental peace, but there's a problem.

It's like, you buy a box of Cornflakes and find there's a big cockroach inside. How do you sell the Captain? Nobody wants to worship anyone else, let alone line up and kiss their feet, but he won't go away. They have to shove the 'Master' in somewhere. Ugh. Who wants to surrender their life, discrimination and cash to the cognac swilling, philandering, materialistic pal of a paedophile?

It just doesn't wash anymore. It's not even fashionable to have a guru, like it was thirty years ago. It's a bum trip, and you don't need a degree in Religion or Psychology to spot a trip to bullshitville, designed to relieve you of your cash.

Which comes to the final piece of glass in the salad- the frantic need for cash, to support his delusions of grandeur and extravagances.

Make no doubt about it. The Captain is well on his way down the tubes.

Anth, it was all a dream.

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Date: Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 08:48:49 (EST)
From: Mr Muggins
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Where can I join?
Message:
re:Who wants to surrender their life, discrimination and cash to the cognac swilling, philandering, materialistic pal of a paedophile?
Sounds like a good deal, where do I sign?
LOL :) - or it would be funny if it wasn't so tragic.
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Date: Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 18:28:02 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Well said Anth
Message:
When you talk to premies, the hard part for them is Maharaji. They don't know how to explain him. They say they are grateful to him, but otherwise it's hard to explain how he fits in. He 'reminds' them, seems to be the most common statement, but one would think that if you had something wonderful to experience, you wouldn't need to be reminded all the time.

That is the big problem. Nothing wrong with a meditation practice, but then Maharaji has to figure out how he doesn't become irrelevent. So, we get lots of shucking and jiving on that score.

If it was just 'knowledge' you wouldn't have a problem selling it. It's 'Maharaji' that the premies have a problem selling. Plus, Maharaji keeps telling them to be sure not to do it wrong, and yet there is no 'right' way to do it. It's a big mess, and so most premies don't do propagation at all.

I spoke to a PAM some time ago, who has recently become an ex, and this person mentioned that another PAM who is very much a robot in following the cult line, and who has been discussed on this Forum numerous times, NEVER tells anyone about Maharaji or knowledge. Something wrong there. DRIP.

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Date: Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 13:52:03 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Typical Maharaji
Message:
He never has a 'plan' about anything. First he ridiculed the internet and told premies to stay away from it. Then, he went in the opposite direction and tried to counteract EPO through internet sites; when that didn't work he apparently gave agya for premies to attack EPO via the internet. Then he reverses course again. It's so typical of his immature style. It really is the behaviour, and attention span, of a child.

So, does this mean that enjoyinglife.org will soon be gone as well? What WILL Janice Wilson and Ivette do? Will they provide counseling and rehab for them, or will they have to go cold turkey?

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Date: Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 05:49:37 (EST)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: He can't control it
Message:
So he will not condone it. He is a control freak, and in order for M to perpetrate his myth he has to control every aspect of his flimsy little premise so that nothing disturbs his version of his story.

So now m has turned his focus to what he knows he can control most which is his diminishing die hard hangers on who still believe his fairy tale and support his lifestyle. I am sure the initiative to avoid the internet will make its way into the cult fabric ASAP if m is serious about this.

The seeds of destruction are already well sown by the Master Gardener himself anyway, all that is left in his garden are the old rotting vegetables which have been recycled and composted so many times they are now festering and feeding on themselves for inspiration.

When confronted by any opposing light of truth the cult cannot stand up to the scrutiny so the only alternative is to withdraw and sequester up in a secret (invitational only) dingy little corner of the cult compost pile and rot away.

Gives a whole new meaning to the rotting vegetable concept doesn't it?

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Date: Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 05:38:54 (EST)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Re: Maharaji gives up on the internet
Message:
Hi John,

It's obvious that prem has issued agya(or whatever the modern version is). Also don't forget that there aren't that many premies left, considering the majority 'practise knowledge' as much as the public here in the UK attend a Christian church(eeer I think it is 2%).

Either way whether there are premies on the net or not, the information already available on the net is enough to compensate for the lies told to aspirants during their 'going through the process'.

Hope all is well in Latvia,
happy new year to you8 and your mom,

Jethro

PS itis interesting that m has become godfather to dr's kid. This must confirm that m approves of SCs posts on the net.
Anyway as rajnish once said 'Knowledge of God is only for the rich, the poor are too busy surviving'.

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Date: Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 08:26:55 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: Did Rajneesh really say this?
Message:
Anyway as rajnish once said 'Knowledge of God is only for the rich, the poor are too busy surviving'.

It sort of makes sense once you accept that the desire for God is simply the desire for a hedonistic, masturbatory, inner experience.

John.

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Date: Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 08:54:33 (EST)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Re: Did Rajneesh really say this?
Message:
No idea if he said it or not. It was told to me by an 'old' sanyassi (equivalent to premie in osho-land). He was with osho from the beginning of his reign.
We were comparing notes when I told him about the dinners m had(still has??) and premies can pay a sum of money in order to get close. It was then that sanyassi friend told me about what rajneesh said.
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Date: Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 12:29:12 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: Re: Did Rajneesh really say this?
Message:
Sounds just like him.

http://www.otoons.0catch.com/L/oshomad.htm
[ check this link for a wacko Osho quote ]
[ Graphic Link ]

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Date: Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 13:55:38 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Rajneesh has little balls...
Message:
...that trail after the cursor instead of little squares like Jaba the Hutguru. The cartoon was quite funny too.
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Date: Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 21:46:17 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: All the Gurus Are Mad...
Message:
That's what I have to say, and I stand by it.

I noticed the cursor thingy too, Pat, too funny...too sad...

Cynthia, much better, trying to find an unfrozen place to dig and bury.:(:) Things are on ice. Christ on a christmas cookie!

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Date: Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 03:19:58 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Can't you freeze Miles........(OT)
Message:
....till the Spring thaw? Is it practical to put the body in a deep snow bank where scavengers can't get it or perhaps it will keep a wild animal alive through winter?

I was just thinking that the last thing anybody needs is a guru, let alone Jaba the Hutguru. How can you ever truly be completely at peace, alone, quiet and by yourself when you have an invisible friend inside your head or heart or whatever other organ the guru lodges himself? Impossible. What a scam.

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Date: Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 14:24:40 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Re: Can't you freeze Miles........(OT)
Message:
Hi Pat,

Miles is safely in deep freeze outside where predators can't get to him. (For other readers, Miles is my cat who died a couple of days ago).=(=(

I scouted out a few places for the burial with no luck. but Tom said he can easily dig a hole in frozen ground with a pic-ax and a shovel, so in a day or so, Miles will be in his final resting place soon, (Tom's been busy working).

Sounds macabre, but better than my sister's suggestion that we cremate him in the fire pit. I told her, no thanks, cremations require extreme heat and I don't want to see his skeleton in the embers!

As you can tell, I'm doing much better now about the whole thing.

Spring thaw? No one in Vermont knows when the spring thaw will occur. And sometimes we get a 4 to 6 foot frost level by May! Thanks for caring, Pat.

Love,
Cyn

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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 10:13:25 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Re: Can't you freeze Miles........(OT)
Message:
Cynthia,
A longtime friend of mine, who single handedly shook up the city animal shelter and got the director sent to parking lot duty fulltime for crimes against animals, buried her father's favorite cat in a beautiful, large plant container and put a rose bush on top.

By the way, our family pigeon just died. We had the priveledge of living with him for ten years. Some neighborhood children rescued him from a bridge being demolished. He was about an inch and a half tall. The vet said he would never make it.

Gerber's baby food, cereal not meat (I didn't know his species was vegan) and a pediatric eye dropper along side my then young daughter's small fingers, plumped him out quite nicely. He imprinted to us and no joke, would fly up to our bedroom window when it was time to come in for the night. I then found out he had been spending his days down at the local elementary school where one of the teachers would open the window and let him come into the classroom. The principal ordered him expelled.

Luckily, he found a mate shortly after. He brought her home to show us, and one day perched outside on the living room window, looking in to find me, with dried grass in his mouth. They were nesting and parents to be. Pidgeons mate for life.

There was a horrible rucus one night out on the rebuilt bridge and the next morning he flew home and landed on my husband's arm, who was outside with his morning coffee. The poor little guy was shaking and in shock. The vet said if the eggs had survived, it was obvious his mate had not, he would have stayed and hatched and raised the babies alone. So we brought him in and had to move him to California when we left Iowa.

He was without a doubt, one of the most intelligent little creatures I've ever had the good fortune to know. I have a picure of him escaping his upstairs perch, navigating the stairwell, and landing on my visiting mother-in-laws head, who was cooking in the kitchen! I'll tell you one thing, he was a lot smarter than Maharaji, understood parenting and being faithful to his mate.

My condolences in the passing of your cat. They become such amazing friends in this life.

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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 14:21:49 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: Lovely story. Thanks, Vicki.....(OT) [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 15:52:48 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Re: Cat People
Message:
Cynthia,
It's sad to lose a pal as dear a pet can be. We lost both of our 18 year old bachelor brother Zen trained guard cats in 2001. A difficult loss but they left us with a greater capacity to love. And, unlike a certain other 'lover', they are not imaginary and they do respond when you talk to them.
Richard
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Date: Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 11:59:12 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: To Richard and Vicki OT
Message:
Richard,

Thanks for your condolences...I lost two cats in six months this year. Clara ran away soon after we moved--into the woods. It's hard when you don't know what happens to them.

We don't have kids so we are very attached to our little four-legged ones. They are royalty in our home.

Miles was 9-1/2 and a beautiful guy with big blue eyes--named after Miles Davis. As a kitten he came crawling out of a woodpile in eastern Vermont. A siamese look-a-like, but with heft and part of a mixed litter. I'm just glad we didn't have to put him down, he was at home.

We still have Nina, a youngster at 3, who is the smartest cat Tom and I have ever known. We rescued her from PetSmart, which doesn't sell cats or dogs, but provides the local animal shelter with space for adoptions. She picked Tom, actually, it was love at first sight and he wouldn't leave the store until I agreed to take her home. He followed me around the store rationalizing how 3 cats are okay, blah, blah, so I agreed. She's a beauty, too. She plays fetch, but only when the whim strikes her, and she seems to like being the Queen of the Gracie house.

A lot of people don't realize that losing a pet can be as difficult as losing a person, they are part of the family. And for us, tears flowed that first day, but we're now getting used to having one cat, Nina, and I'd be willing to bet that come spring, she's have a new companion, even though Tom and I both keep saying ''no more.''

They are unconditional lovers, definitely not imaginary, and in Miles's case, he talked to us regularly and often. He was a gem.

Thanks again,
Love,
Cynthia

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Date: Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 03:41:40 (EST)
From: VKP
Email: V_k_P@webtv.net
To: All
Subject: Urgent Search-->
Message:
Can anyone please help me. I am looking for anyone that can provide general information about step neices father named:
DANIEL

aka:Maxwell-(stage name-> former Comedian traveled USA and abroad)
Beck->
(jewish orthodox given last name)

aka:PROFIT ->
(renamed Profit by Mharaji ?).

Born I believe in New York to imigrant Austrian Jewish faith parents (father: taxi driver);
eventually in hos 20's, lived in Miami area , say in the 20'3 or earlie mid 30's, eletrocuted at home in water and had a Near Death / Crossing Over / Resurection, at / near parents home;
has siblings Lyla (NY) and Stan(Florida); lived abroad followng the 'M' as well as in Colorado, and (90's) in L.A-Sherman Oaks California area, Arizona, Las Vegas Nevada where he passed on (98-99) survived by 1 child to common law / mother Lavonna - Lonnie - Von. Any old friends , pals, buddies, family members, friends of friends, attorney, ex- 1st wife, other children survived, ex or present followers. This info is for genalogy history / literature - major class only!
Any help would be most appreciated.
VKP

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Date: Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 04:12:42 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: VKP
Subject: i knew danny profit
Message:
the last time i saw him he was very sick with worsening diabetes complications. he was at a public program at the santa monica civic center at night with his daughter. she was 11 at the time. i remeber it because we stayed behind for an hour to talk to him while he sat in the car at the curb and his daughter(?) did martial arts sparring for fun with my then-boyfriend 'dragon'. i suppose i should not be surprised to learn that he finally passed; his body was obviously going, on him.

what exactly are you trying to learn about him? is there an inheritance issue under dispute or some similar bloodline issue at stake since his death?
you apparently know far more about him than i ever did. i knew him in gainesville, denver, new york and los angeles, saw him in miami but didnt interact there.
what kind of info is it you are trying to gather??

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Date: Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 23:33:54 (EST)
From: VKP
Email: V_k_P@webtv.net
To: janet
Subject: Re: i knew danny profit
Message:
the last time i saw him he was very sick with worsening diabetes complications. he was at a public program at the santa monica civic center at night with his daughter. she was 11 at the time. i remeber it because we stayed behind for an hour to talk to him while he sat in the car at the curb and his daughter(?) did martial arts sparring for fun with my then-boyfriend 'dragon'. i suppose i should not be surprised to learn that he finally passed; his body was obviously going, on him.

what exactly are you trying to learn about him? is there an inheritance issue under dispute or some similar bloodline issue at stake since his death?
you apparently know far more about him than i ever did. i knew him in gainesville, denver, new york and los angeles, saw him in miami but didnt interact there.
what kind of info is it you are trying to gather??


---

Hi Janet, I am looking to contact ex-premiers for conversation, that new him or knew of him in L.A. area as well. I am not a member but interested in other general info. I recently found out that he was a former member. If you can help please feel free to email me.
Thank you for posting.
VKP

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Date: Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 17:49:04 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: VKP
Subject: I knew Danny Profit
Message:
Hi, I just got back to the forum and couldn't help resist answering this post.

i was a friend of Danny Profit in Miami. He used to be a stand-up comic before he retired as a cultist. He met Maha on the Merv Griffin Show. He was in the 'green room' at the time. Profit had many funny expressions and jokes. Yes, of course, he would use the same ones over and over again but that's what a comic does, he practices his craft.

Asked why he called himself Profit, he said, 'It's better to be a profit than a loss'

One of his favoritef funnies was to say he wanted to ask Maha,

"Now that I have a Perfect Master, how about a Perfect Mistress?"

I loved Danny. He was King of the Bongos and very loveable. Tiring and grating at times, but all in all, a whole lot of fun. He was even comical looking with his pregnant-like belly and false teeth.

He was also a lot older than most of us premies. I was in my mid-twenties and he was 50, when he met a young premie and fell in love and had a child. Quite the character.

And lots of stories of celebritites he met in his day. He was quite the comedian amongst us premies.

Sorry to hear that he passed away a few years ago. i thought of asking about him.

deborah

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Date: Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 15:23:50 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: VKP
Subject: There was a premie 'Danny Profit'
Message:
I recall a premie (follower of Maharaji) by that name in the 70s or early 80s. I don't recall much else; maybe because the name was a little unique is why I recall it. Sorry, I have no details, but others may remember him.

Are you saying Danny died in 1998 or 1999?

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Date: Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 15:49:19 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: Danny Profit
Message:
I also remember a very funny and very live wire Danny Profit. I can't say for absolute certainty, but I recall meeting him for the first time in Montrose, CO during the first big Maharaji festival in the US. I did not know Danny personally but always knew him to be full of fun.
Richard
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Date: Thurs, Jan 03, 2002 at 23:45:01 (EST)
From: Elizabeth
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Note To Janet
Message:
janet
maybe i should have made this real by calling you but here i was in my local store and i just had to play and read a letter that was pissy and not to me!I would like to state that being an ex cult member myself nameless for n ow i resent sugar coated attempts to tell the truth!!i found then h ere but not by you. Sir Heller and i use the word with a huge smirk on my face,you are an idiot . sorry to state that and leave but do that i must by jan jan talk to ewe soon-the sheep
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Date: Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 14:24:31 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Elizabeth
Subject: Now why would you say something like that?
Message:
janet
maybe i should have made this real by calling you but here i was in my local store and i just had to play and read a letter that was pissy and not to me!I would like to state that being an ex cult member myself nameless for n ow i resent sugar coated attempts to tell the truth!!i found then h ere but not by you. Sir Heller and i use the word with a huge smirk on my face,you are an idiot . sorry to state that and leave but do that i must by jan jan talk to ewe soon-the sheep


---

Elizabeth,

What are you talking about?

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Date: Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 15:02:07 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Elizabeth
Subject: Elizabeth.
Message:
Elizabeth,

Why don't you send Janet an email. This site is for slagging off the Captain, not each other.

Anth the sugar coated.

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Date: Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 01:13:31 (EST)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Elizabeth
Subject: Re: Note To Janet
Message:
That's a good post, Elizabeth. I wish there were more like it. I'd read more often if there were.
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Date: Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 05:51:05 (EST)
From: Elizabeth
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Re: Note To Janet
Message:
thank you i have thought to write this to jan before but did not and since i was the member of a cult myself i really do honor rhe truth of those who dare speak it
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Date: Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 01:25:28 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Help me here Sir,
Message:
Are you joking?

Tonette

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Date: Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 05:53:06 (EST)
From: Ellizabeth
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: Re: Help me here Sir,
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 06:56:25 (EST)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: Note the reference to sheep
Message:
She's obviously a Kiwi.

Tonette, I do enjoy these mysterious posts and hope Elizabeth posts again. That notwithstanding, I do have a rather dry sense of humour sometimes.

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Date: Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 05:56:42 (EST)
From: Elizabeth
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Re: Note the reference to sheep
Message:
not a kiwi a magenta sheep
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Date: Thurs, Jan 03, 2002 at 23:58:40 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Elizabeth
Subject: Are you drunk or something?
Message:
Janet is not an idiot. And your post is taking up valuable forum space. It doesn't even make sense.
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Date: Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 05:56:59 (EST)
From: Elliizabeth
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: Re: Are you drunk or something?
Message:
i did not say that janet is a idiot she is not you cannot read i said or wrote that heller is give us all a break and learn how to read
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Date: Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 23:01:47 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Elliizabeth
Subject: Whatever, you are not making any sense to me
Message:
But welcome to the forum anyway.

Fondly, Tonette

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Date: Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 01:15:12 (EST)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: You're right there
Message:
Janet's not an idiot.
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Date: Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 03:54:13 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: It's Janet's friend who has...
Message:
....posted once before. I think she was in a cult of some sort too UFOs or born-again or something.
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Date: Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 06:03:16 (EST)
From: Elizabeth
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Re: It's Janet's friend who has...
Message:
please make it worthy of a response i guess yoou like the acid sweetness read non truth that all culties get
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Date: Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 05:31:58 (EST)
From: CW
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Hullo your majesty...
Message:
....posted once before. I think she was in a cult of some sort too UFOs or born-again or something.


---

No Pat ,she is just a Kiwi. They do seem to have come from outer space.But for those of us who understand the translation it is as she says'a pisser'

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Date: Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 15:08:47 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: Hey Derek.
Message:
I hear Amaroo is going on the market later this year. Got any more info for us?

Anth with a pal who's seen the books.

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Date: Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 13:21:54 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: Yes, you lowly peasant
Message:
If you say so since you've been a forumite for longer than I have. So she's an oldtimer from NZ? And has an even crazier sense of humor than you? I thought janet had a friend in LA called Elizabeth whom she once told us about. I hate not being right all the time.
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Date: Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 06:07:45 (EST)
From: Elizabeth
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Re: Yes, you lowly peasant
Message:
iam that Elizabeth.
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Date: Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 04:51:11 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: sigh..ok-i'll explain
Message:
point one--no, elizabeth is not a kiwi. she's an outspoken aquarius with an irrepressible urge to tell people what she thinks of them if they strike her the wrong way. she's utterly respectful and deferential if she's imprressed with their intelligence, wit, sensitivity or spirituality.
this post has to be read out loud, so that the cadences of spoken english emerge. it does not scan if simply read silently as literature. she's a voracious reader but her writing follows her verbal speech, not the written word.
the letter is correctly interpreted as a pisser. it is Jim Heller she is lampooning, not me. She facetiously refers to him as 'Sir'. She has read something in the forum threads that Jim wrote and has taken difference of opinion to it. I can't tell you what posting. I have not read them all yet and she has not told me off forum what this refers to.
She was in a different cult, herself, years ago, and it was a Christian variety. I will let her tell you which one if she so chooses. She still has some enduring taboos that they stuck her with from that time, of which she's very aware, and we talk often about the persistence of such irrational superstitions and biZarre fears that take root, despite plenty of life experience and self determination since leaving. Invite her to speak about these. Maybe you all can help her to break them and be free of them once again, same as we help our fellows exiting here to dispel the ridiculous programmed beliefs that were foisted on all of us in our strange little enclave.

UFO's were never a part of her cultification.

it may help to copy and paste her text and punctuate it for yourself, so that her meanings become more discernible.

she has bipolar disroder, which is well managed with faithful medication, so that her moods today range no further afield than from bubbly mischief to sober reflection. this, down from previously reckless, ill advised wild sprees, to profoundly debilitating depressions.

to those of you who may be familiar with the symtom spectrum of bipolar disorder, one of the hallmarks of the manic phase is 'flight of ideas' and 'labile speech'. she still has vestiges of this in communication, so her post may be reread ,with this personality trait in mind. for those of you with inquisitive and restless minds, who can easily follow such fast moving thinking, her way of appearing in writing may not be all that hard to decipher.

hope that helps you all to make sense of her post.

oh--and no , she was not drunk. she has been in recovery for two years straight now, sober, clean, not gone into a hospitalization nor yielded to any acts of self injury. took her two year cake this past october. she's doing it. she's rising out of a place none of us would ever have wanted to survive from, and she's doing it in the face of incredible resistance, betrayal of trust, shock, rudeness, usury and ignorance, every day of her life.

i think she felt rather than address anyone here directly, that she would just address her post to me since she knows me. she was apparently in a store where they had net access and she couldn't resist logging on, coming here, reading a bit, and then putting up a post, figuring I'd see it.

think of her as a lurker who decides to peek out and tease, once in a great while.
you know it takes nerve to step out and make yourself visible here at first. I think she's really shy and wants to be encouraged to come out and speak more. this is her way of daring the fear and darting back behind the curtain to see what happens next.

she'll be really thrilled to see that you like her style, sir dave. she knows a welcome when she sees one.
and you know aquarians--they love the quirky and unusual, and you have to too, to be a friend to them. she'll be delighted at your ability to spot the interesting and different and hail it over to your table.

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Date: Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 06:19:02 (EST)
From: ELIZABETH
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Re: sigh..ok-i'll explain
Message:
i thank you very much janet for standing up for me. there seem to be people here who do not like truth. i do.
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Date: Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 10:18:53 (EST)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: ELIZABETH
Subject: Hey Elizabeth
Message:
Just in case you didn't know about it already, there's my forum (linked above) which caters for all ideas and people. You might like to post on there sometime.
[ The ANYTHING GOES forum ]
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Date: Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 06:19:00 (EST)
From: ELIZABETH
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Re: sigh..ok-i'll explain
Message:
i thank you very much janet for standing up for me. there seem to be people here who do not like truth. i do.
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