Ex-Premie Forum 7 Archive
From: Feb 04, 2002 To: Feb 10, 2002 Page: 2 of: 5


Cynthia -:- Anybody got a good Polish joke?... -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 23:47:37 (EST)
__ Ben Lurking -:- Re: Not Polish Bu Good Osama Joke -:- Sat, Feb 09, 2002 at 10:52:18 (EST)
__ __ Cynthia -:- LOLOLOLOL....! -:- Sat, Feb 09, 2002 at 11:17:57 (EST)
__ Ben Lurking -:- Re: Anybody got a good Polish joke?.. -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 10:35:21 (EST)
__ PatC -:- Ten foot pole -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 05:30:07 (EST)
__ __ Richard -:- Green Side Up -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 13:53:47 (EST)
__ __ __ Gina...Oh, and Richard, -:- I have a cousin NAMED Bubba! (nt) -:- Sat, Feb 09, 2002 at 14:54:45 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Richard -:- Re: I have a cousin NAMED Bubba! (nt) -:- Sat, Feb 09, 2002 at 19:35:22 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Gina -:- Re: Bubba...(WAY OT!) -:- Sat, Feb 09, 2002 at 21:39:11 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Richard -:- Oh Sistah Lil' Gina, where art thou? (mega OT)? -:- Sat, Feb 09, 2002 at 21:45:06 (EST)
__ __ __ Gina -:- Richard...Hey, southern boy...did you hear... -:- Sat, Feb 09, 2002 at 11:03:25 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Richard -:- Re: Hey, southern boy... (Totally OT) -:- Sat, Feb 09, 2002 at 13:38:35 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Gina -:- Atta boy, Richard!!!... (Totally OT) -:- Sat, Feb 09, 2002 at 14:23:37 (EST)
__ __ __ Ben Lurking -:- Re: Green Side Up - Emabarassing Moments -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 15:08:55 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Richard -:- Another Embarassing Moment -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 16:52:28 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Barbara -:- More Embarassing Moments -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 15:32:13 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Oh Barbara... -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 15:53:38 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Barbara -:- Yes, or else I'd've been chilling on the slab :) [nt] -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 15:57:06 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Carl -:- Another morgue story -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 15:40:14 (EST)
__ __ __ Barbara -:- How about the 18 Poles who went to the movies -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 14:31:29 (EST)
__ __ __ __ janet -:- Re:polish and proving it... -:- Sat, Feb 09, 2002 at 05:24:37 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Polish kamikaze -:- flew 48 successful missions. -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 21:43:33 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Polish sub w/screen door -:- Don't Laugh! It keeps the fish out [nt] -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 21:49:32 (EST)
__ JHB -:- What happened below -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 02:22:05 (EST)
__ __ Jim -:- We're building a foundation for a new way of being -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 11:16:47 (EST)
__ __ __ JHB -:- We can do it - we have the mammals -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 17:06:29 (EST)
__ Marshall -:- racism sucks -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 02:19:10 (EST)
__ __ OTS -:- I Should Have Said... -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 10:30:57 (EST)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- Thanks OTS...;) -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 15:52:27 (EST)
__ __ Yes -:- Sheldon did that to me... [nt] -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 10:21:12 (EST)
__ __ Lil Darlin -:- My Mother Always Taught Me -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 10:21:00 (EST)
__ __ Allen Leibowitz -:- Pres., NYHJMA -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 10:12:11 (EST)
__ StevieJi -:- How can you tell the bride at a Polish -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 00:49:07 (EST)
__ Dermot -:- No....some Irish though -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 00:34:37 (EST)
__ __ Dermot -:- Bejeezus....even more:) -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 00:42:45 (EST)
__ __ __ cq -:- the Irishman who wanted to go waterskiing? - -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 12:09:33 (EST)
__ Ed -:- Did you hear the one about the Polish hitman? -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 23:59:07 (EST)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Peirogi and golombki... -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 15:50:25 (EST)
__ __ __ Barbara -:- What are peirogi and golombki? -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 21:29:38 (EST)
__ __ __ __ PatC -:- Peirogi and golombki? Don't laugh! -:- Sat, Feb 09, 2002 at 03:48:14 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Out of the mouths of babes... -:- Sat, Feb 09, 2002 at 14:17:42 (EST)
__ __ Or -:- Did you hear the one about the Polish actress? -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 02:36:36 (EST)
__ __ Or the Polish dog -:- which chased parked cars? NT -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 00:25:28 (EST)
__ __ __ Or the Polish ice fisherman -:- who brought home 6 blocks of ice? (nt) -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 15:17:59 (EST)
__ __ __ __ And his son broke his leg raking leaves -:- By falling out of the tree (nt) -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 15:21:03 (EST)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- Thanks for the jokes... -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 11:51:36 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Marshall -:- Re: Thanks for the jokes... -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 13:13:28 (EST)

Jim -:- Is this guy even MORE banal? -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 20:33:23 (EST)
__ Dermot -:- Why be a Bank Manager -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 22:38:01 (EST)
__ __ Dermot -:- Btw,no offence Dep Dog :) [nt] -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 00:54:02 (EST)
__ Deputy Dog =) -:- How about this one Jim! -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 21:28:54 (EST)
__ __ Jim -:- Re: How about this one Jim! -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 21:39:06 (EST)
__ __ __ Deputy Dog =) -:- Re: How about this one Jim! -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 09:54:14 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Francesca :~) -:- 'But I would not feel so all alone ... -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 15:13:03 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Wow! What a groovy paradox! -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 20:25:48 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Chuck Ling -:- Re: Wow! What a groovy paradox! -:- Sat, Feb 09, 2002 at 18:30:26 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Francesca :~) -:- Groovy pair'a ducks -:- Sat, Feb 09, 2002 at 00:56:56 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Re: Groovy pair'a ducks -:- Sat, Feb 09, 2002 at 03:51:11 (EST)
__ __ __ __ PatC -:- Poochie, you can leave god in... -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 14:35:45 (EST)
__ gerry -:- Probably not... -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 20:58:24 (EST)
__ __ Brian Smith -:- I take issue with everything this guy said [nt] -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 04:54:55 (EST)

JHB -:- New Journeys Entries on EPO -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 19:23:44 (EST)
__ PatC -:- Yes, I blame you ex-premies... -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 15:20:39 (EST)
__ wolfie -:- leonhard cohen -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 02:51:17 (EST)

la-ex -:- are the HK's declaring bankruptcy? -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 17:43:31 (EST)
__ Salon.com -:- Here's a link to the story... -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 15:51:52 (EST)
__ __ cq -:- Here's another one, with discussion board -:- Sat, Feb 09, 2002 at 09:14:13 (EST)
__ Cynthia -:- I'm no legal mind... -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 13:44:29 (EST)
__ Walter Cronkite -:- Re: are the HK's declaring bankruptcy? -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 17:44:41 (EST)

Larkin -:- Brand new poem: 'Don't!' -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 14:54:19 (EST)
__ Kelly -:- Probably your best work LarkinDon't!' -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 12:07:51 (EST)
__ PatC -:- Who's Billy Joel? -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 04:26:26 (EST)
__ Deborah -:- ***Don't miss this post*** -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 21:02:15 (EST)
__ JohnT -:- You're in good form, Larkin -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 15:59:17 (EST)
__ __ Larkin -:- Small, but perfectly formed... -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 16:42:25 (EST)
__ cq -:- Never trust a Guru til you've studied his CV -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 15:26:25 (EST)
__ __ I'm dumb -:- wot's a CV? -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 19:22:14 (EST)
__ __ __ Deborah -:- Curriculum Vitae -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 19:41:41 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Same in the U.S. ... -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 23:12:33 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Every syllable worth a few more bucks -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 04:30:53 (EST)
__ __ Larkin -:- Thanks, but.. -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 15:36:17 (EST)
__ __ __ cq -:- Re: Thanks, but.. -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 15:41:27 (EST)
__ Cynthia -:- Bravo! Larkin! -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 15:20:24 (EST)
__ __ Larkin -:- Love life? -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 16:36:04 (EST)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- Re: Love life? -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 23:10:51 (EST)

Gregg -:- The Empty-Calorie Satguru -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 13:11:25 (EST)
__ Joe -:- Erika's Says He's the BEST -- care to comment?????? -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 19:45:37 (EST)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Erika's Metaphor... -:- Sat, Feb 09, 2002 at 19:02:53 (EST)
__ __ Suedoula -:- Re: Erika's Says He's the BEST -- care to comment? -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 11:28:36 (EST)
__ __ Brian Smith -:- Where is the teaching ??????? -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 04:31:46 (EST)
__ __ __ Steve Mueller -:- Excellent points, Brian, hear here -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 07:07:42 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Marshall -:- Forget Jesus -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 12:59:30 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- Turning the other cheek -:- Sat, Feb 09, 2002 at 19:44:56 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Steve Mueller -:- Nope, no plans to forget Jesus -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 16:43:47 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Sulla -:- That's your right... -:- Sat, Feb 09, 2002 at 11:57:52 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Jesus was nuts (and that's being optimistic) -:- Sun, Feb 10, 2002 at 00:06:19 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Steve Mueller -:- Re: Jesus was nuts (and that's being optimistic) -:- Sun, Feb 10, 2002 at 01:12:18 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Who -:- Sun, Feb 10, 2002 at 01:54:30 (EST)
__ Jethro -:- excuse me nit-picking -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 18:43:01 (EST)
__ __ Brian Smith -:- Just like the line in the song -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 03:12:56 (EST)
__ __ __ Jethro -:- and premies don't see revisionism? -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 03:48:51 (EST)
__ Brian Smith -:- Excellent Obsevation Gregg -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 18:17:35 (EST)
__ Francesca :) -:- ***BEST OF FORUM!!!** -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 15:44:53 (EST)
__ PatC -:- Dildo Rimpoche's an idiot -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 15:33:24 (EST)
__ __ c -:- Yeah - an idiot. And M's a MASTER! (nt) -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 15:43:36 (EST)
__ Carl -:- Thank you for this post! -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 14:31:29 (EST)
__ __ cq -:- Seconded! -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 15:32:54 (EST)
__ __ __ Steve Mueller -:- Thirded! The Emotion is Passed -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 00:09:40 (EST)
__ JHB -:- M: A Poor Meditation Teacher -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 13:32:43 (EST)
__ __ cq -:- Re: M: A PISS-Poor Meditation Teacher -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 14:10:39 (EST)
__ __ __ WAIT AND SEE -:- Re: M: A PISS-Poor Meditation Teacher -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 00:08:46 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Deborah -:- What video is that? [nt] -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 20:25:49 (EST)
__ __ __ Lesley -:- Mr Rawat, an inept and ignorant meditation teacher -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 16:20:13 (EST)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- My First Grade Teacher... -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 15:52:45 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Marshall -:- Re: My First Grade Teacher... -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 16:30:09 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- I don't post for sympathy... -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 12:20:45 (EST)
__ __ __ __ cq -:- she sounds like a person with discrimination -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 16:26:30 (EST)
__ __ __ Gregg -:- You're one funny dude, cq. (nt) -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 15:11:28 (EST)

Livia -:- Michael Dettmers -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 12:47:41 (EST)
__ Michael Dettmers -:- Not true -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 07:57:47 (EST)
__ __ Livia -:- Re: Not true -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 08:56:51 (EST)
__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Something abour Danielle -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 09:05:52 (EST)
__ Deborah -:- Not going to happen -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 17:59:00 (EST)
__ JHB -:- I can't find Danielle's post -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 13:18:17 (EST)
__ __ Livia -:- Re: I can't find Danielle's post -:- Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 03:43:52 (EST)
__ Joe -:- Re: Michael Dettmers -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 13:09:35 (EST)


Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 23:47:37 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Anybody got a good Polish joke?...
Message:
I'm dead serious. Because I would laugh really hard. I am 100% Polish. I am an American citizen, but I am from 100% Polish stock. I love it. I also don't take offense at Polish jokes. I love Polish jokes. I laugh at Polish jokes. Why? Because I can laugh at myself and the truth behind the jokes. OTS did not intentionally make a racist slur. That ridiculous.

What happened down below?

Why?

Fuck PC. OTS made a good post and you all ruined it by getting into a godamned argument about Jews, anti-semetics, and totally lost the heart of the thread.

You want to have some credibility? Then have some restraint about your personal interpretations about one, that's one, that's one: SENTENCE!

That whole thread should be hung up in the ex-premie hall of infamy.

If anyone is owed an apology, it's Sheldon Jaffee or however your spell his name. Don't forget, he was in the cult too.

I knew Sheldon, he was a huge pain in my ass, but I just busted his ass in return and we got along just fine. At the time I knew him, when I needed him, believe me, he assisted. All for a fake cause, but nevertheless he helped me--and we worked together. Now whether he's a Jew, a Polack, a Black, Brown, Yellow, a Native American an Puerto Rican, French, British, Danish, German was besides the point.

Ya want to persecute someone, persecute ME!

I broke the law in Maharaji's name plenty of times. I didn't rip jewelry from people's necks, but I probably commited felonies. Fuckin' Shit, Godamm it!

Now knock it off or take it to AG or the Chitchat room.

We have more serious business to conduct here.

I told you early in the day to drop it, but Nooooo, you all have to prove your stupid petty points.

I'm pissed.

And if anyone tells me to lighten up one more time, you'll hear my scream across the POND.

Reassess your priorities, folks.

Sincerely,
Cynthia J. Gracie
Vermont, USA

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Date: Sat, Feb 09, 2002 at 10:52:18 (EST)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Re: Not Polish Bu Good Osama Joke
Message:
Subject:Gone to glory

After getting nailed by a Daisy Cutter bomb blast at Tora Bora, Osama
makes his way to the pearly gates.

There, he is greeted by George Washington. 'How dare you attack the
nation I helped conceive!' yells Washington, slapping Osama in the face.

Patrick Henry comes up from behind. 'You wanted to end the Americans'
liberty, so they gave you death!' Henry punches Osama in the nose.

James Madison comes up next and says, 'This is why I allowed the Federal
government to provide for the common defense!' He drops a large weight
on Osama's knee.

Osama is subject to similar beatings from John Randolph of Roanoke,
James Monroe, and sixty-five other people who have the same love for
liberty and America.

As he writhes on the ground, Thomas Jefferson picks him up to hurl him
back toward the gate where he is to be judged.

As Osama awaits his journey to his final very hot destination, he
screams, 'This is not what I was promised!'

An angel replies, 'I told you there would be seventy-two Virginians
waiting for you. What did you think I said?'

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Date: Sat, Feb 09, 2002 at 11:17:57 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Ben Lurking
Subject: LOLOLOLOL....!
Message:
Virginians! Good one.
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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 10:35:21 (EST)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Re: Anybody got a good Polish joke?..
Message:
This is not really a joke but more a statement from some Polish workers in chicago that worked for a freing of mine when they were discussing the lack of productivity of Polish workers (15-20 years ago), his statement was the government pretends to pays us so we pretend to work.
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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 05:30:07 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Ten foot pole
Message:
I mean I shouldn't touch this post with one of those.

But yes, the flap about OTS's Shylock Redux thingy was a storm in a teacup.

Did you hear about the Polish kielbasa that converted to Judaism?

It had to be circumcised and weighed only half of what it did before.

Okay, it's an esoteric gay joke about the size of Polish sausages. I warned you. :C)

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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 13:53:47 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Green Side Up
Message:
This is my favorite ethnic joke. Being a Southern boy, I tell it as a joke on ignorant bubbas (rednecks) but feel free to insert your ethnic slur of choice where I put Bubbas.

Green Side Up

A proud new homeowner was finishing up details with the contractor. It was time for her to select paint colors so as they went in to the living room, the contractor asked 'So what color have you chosen?' She replied 'Hmmm, a nice mossy green would be nice.' The contractor jots down some notes. He then excuses himself, walks over to the window and yells out 'Hey, green side up.' His method amuses the homeowner but on they go.

Next they go into the dining area and she says, 'A little lighter green, say a celery.' Again the contractor makes notes, excuses himself, walks over to the window and yells 'Hey, green side up.'

Getting the hang of it now, the homeowner heads for the bedroom where she says 'Oh, this definitely has to be a lovely shade of peach.' As before, the contractor makes notes, excuses himself, walks over to the window and yells 'Hey, green side up.' The owner is flabbergasted and says 'I just said peach and you yelled out green side up like the other two rooms. Didn't you hear me? I said peach.'

The contractor looks puzzled for a moment then says 'No lady, I've written down all your paint choices. It's just that I've got some Bubbas out there laying sod and I have to keep reminding them - green side up.'

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Date: Sat, Feb 09, 2002 at 14:54:45 (EST)
From: Gina...Oh, and Richard,
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: I have a cousin NAMED Bubba! (nt)
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Feb 09, 2002 at 19:35:22 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Gina...Oh, and Richard,
Subject: Re: I have a cousin NAMED Bubba! (nt)
Message:
I always assumed 'Bubba' was a southernism for 'brother' not an actual name.
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Date: Sat, Feb 09, 2002 at 21:39:11 (EST)
From: Gina
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Re: Bubba...(WAY OT!)
Message:
Yeah, you're right, but in my cousin's case it's his middle name, actually they spelled it 'Bubber,' and no one has ever called him by his first name Eric since the day he was born. My own mother, Virginia, has been known as 'Sistah' since the day she was born! I'm not talking about rednecks either, but just real old southern families. With lots of 'Bigs' and 'Littles' in our family names, like my grandmother Virginia was 'Big Gina' and I, yet another Virginia, (Virginia V...I'm from a matriarchal Southern family) am 'Lil' Gina.' Just old-school Southern!

Sorry to take up the thread space with more OT stuff...I don't mean to be a jackass here, it's just good to talk to another Southerner here for a minute!

Thanks, Richard!
Gina

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Date: Sat, Feb 09, 2002 at 21:45:06 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: richard@rogers-graphics.com
To: Gina
Subject: Oh Sistah Lil' Gina, where art thou? (mega OT)?
Message:
Hey gal, gimme a shout on that there email thang, 'kay?

Bubba Richard, who was a good ol' boy before being a good ol' boy was cool (if it ever was)

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Date: Sat, Feb 09, 2002 at 11:03:25 (EST)
From: Gina
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Richard...Hey, southern boy...did you hear...
Message:
that the Alabama governor's mansion burned down last night?
Yep, all the way down to the axles.

(That's funny if you're not from Alabama.)

And do you know what's the last thing a redneck says before he dies?
"Hey, watch this!"

(That's funny if you're not a redneck.)

Hope you're not a redneck from Alabama.
From a fellow southerner, Gina.

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Date: Sat, Feb 09, 2002 at 13:38:35 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Gina
Subject: Re: Hey, southern boy... (Totally OT)
Message:
LOL, Gina.

No I'm not from 'Bama. Tallahassee is as close to deep south as I got. Close enough, but I have to say, when I hear a woman speak in a Southern accent, I'm hypnotized.

Love them 'neck jokes. Here's some good 'uns fer y'all.

What do a divorce in Alabama, a tornado in Kansas, and a hurricane in Florida have in common?
Somebody's fixin' to lose them a trailer.

Did you hear about the Alabama redneck who passed away and left his entire estate in trust for his beloved widow? She can't touch it till she's thirteen.

Emily Sue passed away and Bubba called 911. The 911 operator told Bubba that she would send someone out right away. 'Where do you live?' asked the operator. Bubba replied, 'At the end of Eucalyptus Drive.' The operator asked, 'Can you spell that for me?' There was a long pause and finally Bubba said, 'How 'bout if I drag her over to Oak Street and you pick her up there?'

How do you know when you're staying in a Kentucky hotel?
When you call the front desk and say 'I've gotta leak in my sink' and the person at the front desk says 'go ahead.'

How can you tell if a Texas redneck is married?
There is dried chewing tobacco on both sides of his pickup truck.

Did you hear that they have raised the minimum drinking age in Tennessee to 38?
It seems they want to keep alcohol out of the high schools!

What do they call reruns of 'Hee Haw' in Mississippi?
A documentary.

How many rednecks does it take eat a 'possum?
Two. One to eat, and one to watch out for traffic.

Why did God invent armadillos?
So that Texas rednecks can have 'possum on the halfshell.

Where was the toothbrush invented?
Arkansas. If it was invented anywhere else it would have been called a teethbrush.

An Arkansas State trooper pulls over a pickup truck on I-40. He says to the driver, 'Got any ID?' The driver asks, 'Bout what?'

Did you hear about the $3,000,000 Tennessee State Lottery?
The winner gets $3 a year for a million years.

Did you hear that the governor's mansion in Little Rock, Arkansas, burned down?
Yep. Pert' near took out the whole trailer park.

A new law recently passed in Mississippi: When a couple gets divorced, they're still legally brother and sister.

What's the best thing to ever come out of Arkansas?
I-40.

Two Mississippians are walking down different ends of a street toward each other, and one is carrying a sack. When they meet, one says, 'Hey, Tommy Ray, what'cha got in th' bag?'
'Jus' some chickens.'
'If I guesses how many they are, can I have one?'
'Shoot, ya guesses right and I'll give you both of them.'
'Okay. Ummmmm . . . five?'

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Date: Sat, Feb 09, 2002 at 14:23:37 (EST)
From: Gina
Email: all-yall@mindspring.com
To: Richard
Subject: Atta boy, Richard!!!... (Totally OT)
Message:
Thanks, Richard, those are some good ones!
Hey, Tallahassee counts...if you're from a part of a state known as 'The Panhandle' that sho-nuff counts as southern!
Here in Georgia, every one of those jokes is an Alabama joke...and over in Alabama those are all Georgia jokes. I don't know, just an age-old Alabama/Georgia thang!

Do you know what happens when you play a country song backwards?
Well, ya git outta prison, yer wife comes back, yer trailer ain't been repossessed, yer truck starts back up, and yer dawg ain't dead no more.

And this was on a blues singer's tombstone:
'Well, I didn't wake up this mawnin'...'

And speakin' of Southern accents:
When I was 19 (1971) I went up to Boston to spend a few days with some Atlanta friends who were going to Harvard. It was February and the weather was nasty, rainy, old slushy snow everywhere. On the way to one of their classes, we got in a noisy elevator packed with people, and I said loudly (drawled, although I didn't realize I had such a drawl!), 'DAMMIT, y'all, Ah'm SO tired of all this RAIYN!' This complete HUSH fell over the elevator! All these people just stared at me like I was an alien! Hey, maybe they were hypnotized! My friends shushed me (they didn't have drawls like mine...they were 'Yankee' Atlantans) and I nearly FELL OUT of the elevator laughing!

Take care, southern boy!
Gina, born and raised in Georgia, can't help it I'm southern down to the DNA, y'all

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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 15:08:55 (EST)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Re: Green Side Up - Emabarassing Moments
Message:
About 17 years ago I was in Baltimore for some training, we walked out of the building at lunch time and they were laying sod out front so like a smart ass I said don't forget to put the green side up. We got in the car and my host informed me that the landscape company hired mentally challenged individuals and it was a productive job training program - talk about feeling bad -
Ben
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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 16:52:28 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Ben Lurking
Subject: Another Embarassing Moment
Message:
Speaking of inadvertant racial slurs. When I was a boy, growing up in the US south, my younger brother was the subject of my torment. One day, as we were leaving the grocery store behind my mom and the black gentleman carrying the groceries (read bag boy in the vernacular of the day). My brother was goofing around so, in a loud voice, I called out to him 'Hey you crazy goon!' To my horror, what actually came out of my mouth instead was 'Hey you coon!' The man carrying the groceries wheeled around and gave me a stare I'll never forget. I tried to explain but what was said was heard and felt. Maybe my inner redneck was longing to get out but he got the whippin' he deserved.
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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 15:32:13 (EST)
From: Barbara
Email: None
To: Ben Lurking
Subject: More Embarassing Moments
Message:
When I was a kid, around 9 or 10, I once answered the phone: 'Joe's morgue, you kill 'em, we chill 'em, you stab 'em, we slab 'em.' On the phone was my grandmother calling to tell my parents that my grandfather had just died. Talk about seriously bad timing... :)
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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 15:53:38 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Barbara
Subject: Oh Barbara...
Message:
at least you were a kid.:)
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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 15:57:06 (EST)
From: Barbara
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Yes, or else I'd've been chilling on the slab :) [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 15:40:14 (EST)
From: Carl
Email: None
To: Barbara
Subject: Another morgue story
Message:
There was a mortician in town whose phone number was one digit away from an auto repair business.

It was only after many months of shocked silences and abrupt phone disconnects that the auto repair place figured it out. They answered the phone as 'body shop'.

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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 14:31:29 (EST)
From: Barbara
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: How about the 18 Poles who went to the movies
Message:
The movie was rated NC-17, under 17 not allowed.

My chiropractor is Polish, and once he made a blunder, turned to me and said, 'Polish and proving it.'

+)

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Date: Sat, Feb 09, 2002 at 05:24:37 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Barbara
Subject: Re:polish and proving it...
Message:
This is both a polish joke and a real life embarassing moment i witnessed. I guess you could say I lived it vicariously.
The name of the perpetrator is concealed to protect his Polish ancestry : )

Back in the late 70's, before DLM/EV moved the offices to Miami, I was with my son's father in the Kittredge building with our baby son in arms, visiting Rance Barela for some reason, one afternoon.
Rance's office was a crowded storeroom on the second floor of the K building, a desk by the door of a cell otherwise crammed with ancient dusty boxes, lit by a single lamp on the desk, and covered by a suspended ceiling with 2x3 ft acoustic pressboard panels set into a light aluminum gridwork overhead.
Rance left the room for a few minutes to deliver something upstairs, so we stepped into the room and shut the door to await his return.
in the space behind the door, hanging from the ceiling framing was one of those rattan basketwork chairs that hung by a chain. Rance apparently had bought or received it during work hours and had stuck it there until he could take it home at the end of the day.
My kid's father, whose maternal side of the family is Polish, spied it hanging there and in complete 'make yourself comfortable' delight, promptly walked over and sat himself it, expecting, no doubt, to enjoy a nice relaxing swing in it.

I was dismayed, astounded-- and too slow in reacting.
His weight on the chain, hooked over the lightly wired suspended grid, brought the entire ceiling down on our heads, liberating decades of dust and grit and grime, all over the boxes and Rance's desk. The basket chair, with its egg -shaped contours, hit the floor, ass first and then sent my son's father bowling over among the boxes, a shocked prisoner, while I watched in horrible awkwardness. The air was practically opaque.
And before he could get up, Rance returned and opened the door, effectively jamming the chair and its occupant into the corner behind the door!

yup. Polish and proving it, every day.

[ thankfully, Rance took it well, didn't seem upset at all by it. The chair didn't break-- and neither did we.]

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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 21:43:33 (EST)
From: Polish kamikaze
Email: None
To: Barbara
Subject: flew 48 successful missions.
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 21:49:32 (EST)
From: Polish sub w/screen door
Email: None
To: Polish kamikaze
Subject: Don't Laugh! It keeps the fish out [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 02:22:05 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: What happened below
Message:
Cynthia,

OTS wrote a great post, but we all agree that knowledge isn't free so there was nothing to argue about there, so we had to find something else to argue about, and we did:-)

I know a good Russian joke but it needs to be spoken as it involves a bit of singing. During the Russian occupation of Latvia many of the Russians who were forcably transferred here weren't the brightest in the class (but then Stalin had already wiped out the brightest in Russia), so Latvians have Russian jokes instead of Polish or Irish jokes.

Lighten up (I'm listening!):-)

John.

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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 11:16:47 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: We're building a foundation for a new way of being
Message:
I like to think it's important for us to work these problems out here and now for once and for all so that generations ahead of us will know not war but will live in peace and stuff like that. :)
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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 17:06:29 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: We can do it - we have the mammals
Message:
The lion will lie down with the lamb, and people will point to the forum archives (when I get round to putting them online) as the scriptures that saved the world from certain annihilation. Yes, we can solve all problems through rational debate.

John the dialectic

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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 02:19:10 (EST)
From: Marshall
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: racism sucks
Message:
You are really blowing it here Cynthia.
I'm glad you can laugh at yourself, and that you can find the humor in polish jokes, but thats not what this is about.
Also OTS otherwise brilliant post wasn't 'ruined' by honestly pointing out a blatantly inappropriate and insulting slur, intentional or not.
I don't know where you get the idea that YOU get to decide who has or doesn't have 'credibility around here' according to your narrow judgements.
Who died and made you king?

'My wife, and many other women during the early 70s in the ashrams and the communities, had their jewelry taken from them by this hunchback Jewish premie merchant on the East Coast who would just rip it off the girls and laugh and laugh and re-sell it for cash for the local coffers.'

This is terrible that this guy Sheldon would do this,but
is this really entirely true though? with no exageration?
Did Sheldon literally RIP the jewelry right off their necks? Is that what is being said?
It sounds like it and this is really sickening and horrible.
However describing this terrible person as jewish is insulting and racist, sorry.
I can laugh at jewish jokes too Cynthia but that's different isn't it?

Like, What's the difference between judo and karate?

Karate is a martial art and judo(jew dough) is what you make bagels out of.

'hunchback Jewish premie merchant'
That would be like ugly, stupid, Pollock idiot, retard.

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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 10:30:57 (EST)
From: OTS
Email: None
To: Marshall
Subject: I Should Have Said...
Message:
NEW YORK JEW! Cheers. Stupid me. I guess I do just lack common sense and decency. Pity. But seriously, folks.... Thanks for all the opinions. They ALL have some worth. (Note to Lil Darlin, did you have to drag your mother-in-law into this?)

I just have to say, however, that I love Sheldon. And I am sorry his name was dragged into this. I love him unconditionally and have for a long time, because he's my friend, gave respect and got respect. I am very proud of his ability to use his intelligence and get an education and law degree after leaving his monastic lifestyle (though he had a weird thing for almonds). Sorry, Bro. I forgave his jangling jumbling a long time ago.

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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 15:52:27 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: OTS
Subject: Thanks OTS...;)
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 10:21:12 (EST)
From: Yes
Email: None
To: Marshall
Subject: Sheldon did that to me... [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 10:21:00 (EST)
From: Lil Darlin
Email: None
To: Marshall
Subject: My Mother Always Taught Me
Message:
My mother always taught me not to be mean -- did yours OTS?

Re: Sheldon the Jewish American

Sometimes it slips out -- those nasty un-PC slurs. Why? A variety of reasons, I’m sure. Recently, I was describing someone to a client and I said: “You, know, she’s a New York Jew.” My client actually lightly slapped me on the wrist. She, being a Texas Jew. Then I said, “Well, I mean, you know, she’s [the N.Y. Jew] honest and direct.” Unfortunate slip -- me being a New Yorker myself -- you know, insensitive and brute at times.

Anyway, about OTS’ misspeak -- a theory: Maybe OTS blames his childhood religious upbringing on his debacle with Maharaji. OTS chose him as his Messiah? and look how that turned out. A lot of little Jewish boys and girls especially in the 50’s and 60’s had a Messiah complex -- you know Christmas trees, Christmas gifts, the little Lord Jesus.

Here’s the thing: As I was saying to someone the other day, to quote Roseanne Rosanna Dana: “It’s always something.” We are all a little mean and we are all a little self-destructive. The sooner we accept it in ourselves, the sooner we accept it in others or vice versa. Not a huge deal. Maybe a little deal. However, when these behaviors go to extremes, that’s when you get problems -- addiction, brainwashing, wars, suicides, genocide, expensive lawsuits, etc., etc.

BTW, I did feel the description of Sheldon was mean, not the Jewish part, but the description of his postural stature. I have a particular affection for that tragic Notre Dame character.

We’re all so human. I love it! and I love you(z).

Take it light.

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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 10:12:11 (EST)
From: Allen Leibowitz
Email: None
To: Marshall
Subject: Pres., NYHJMA
Message:
Hey, Al Leibowitz here for the New York Humpback Jewish Merchants Association. And I just wanna say to all a youz: Hey, fugeddaboutit. I've hoid a lot woise. No, offense taken. But what a thread down there, holy matzah brie.
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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 00:49:07 (EST)
From: StevieJi
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: How can you tell the bride at a Polish
Message:
wedding? She's the one with the braided armpits.

My sister Claire has a ton of em (Polish jokes). She lives in eastern Wisconsin and her husband goes deer-hunting with his Polish-descendant friends in Stevens Point, a sort of unofficial Polish 'capital' city in Wisconsin. Will pass em on to you when I get em (better, I'll put em out on one of the OT sites).

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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 00:34:37 (EST)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: No....some Irish though
Message:

[ Irish Jokes ]
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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 00:42:45 (EST)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: Bejeezus....even more:)
Message:

[ some more ]
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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 12:09:33 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: the Irishman who wanted to go waterskiing? -
Message:
... the Irishman who wanted to go waterskiing -

but couldn't find a lake with a slope on it.

Or the one who bought a black and white dog, 'cos he thought the license would be cheaper.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 23:59:07 (EST)
From: Ed
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Did you hear the one about the Polish hitman?
Message:
He tried to blow up a car and burnt his lips !

Ed, who just finished eating pierogi and golombki.(sorry i couldn't make that line across the L)

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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 15:50:25 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Ed
Subject: Peirogi and golombki...
Message:
Oh those wonderful rich Polish foods.
Thank gawd my mother passed them all on to us before she lost her memory--what a cook!

Thanks

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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 21:29:38 (EST)
From: Barbara
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: What are peirogi and golombki?
Message:
They sound like an Italian comedy team. :)
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Date: Sat, Feb 09, 2002 at 03:48:14 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Barbara
Subject: Peirogi and golombki? Don't laugh!
Message:
I want the recipes.

And I'm serious.

I think a recipe or two would make this forum even more appetizing.

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Date: Sat, Feb 09, 2002 at 14:17:42 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Out of the mouths of babes...
Message:
This is a true story from one of my sisters who has a very funny and precocious 3-1/2 year old daughter: She (my sister) sent this to me a few months ago (no names to protect the innocent):

My little girl was 'flipping' through the channels with the remote yesterday when she happened upon a movie about Mary Magdeline and Jesus...she stopped 'flipping' and starting watching intently with much interest.

Later in the evening, she didn't want to be in her own bed, so she climbed in next to me and my husband and hugged and kissed me. She then passionately 'kissed' me and said, 'That's how Jesus kissed Mary.' I asked her, 'Mary, who?' She says, 'Mary, Magna Doodle!' I burst out laughing...

For those of you who don't know, a Magna Doodle is a sort of writing board with magnets--use the black pieces to make the 'doodle' and then erases, etc....

Also, to Pat: I try to get those Polish recipes to you. A pinch of this, a dash of that....all of my sisters have the recipes written down...I'll work on it...it's worth it!

Love,
Cynthia, who started a monster OT joke thread and I hope Gerry isn't getting mad....:)

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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 02:36:36 (EST)
From: Or
Email: None
To: Ed
Subject: Did you hear the one about the Polish actress?
Message:
She slept with the screenwriter to get a job.
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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 00:25:28 (EST)
From: Or the Polish dog
Email: None
To: Ed
Subject: which chased parked cars? NT
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 15:17:59 (EST)
From: Or the Polish ice fisherman
Email: None
To: Or the Polish dog
Subject: who brought home 6 blocks of ice? (nt)
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 15:21:03 (EST)
From: And his son broke his leg raking leaves
Email: None
To: Or the Polish ice fisherman
Subject: By falling out of the tree (nt)
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 11:51:36 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Or the Polish dog
Subject: Thanks for the jokes...
Message:
To Everybody,

I apologize for the tone in my post because this forum isn't mine. I get frustrated sometimes when things deteriorate into fights and arguments. Scared, too. I would have been wiser not to say anything; instead I had a fit.

When I started reading all about Sheldon Jaffee and saw pictures and everything about him all laid out there I thought the discussion went way beyond an argument about racism. It got very, very personal about one person who has nothing to do with this forum. I saw red.

Then I posted. I know better than that, yet I did push that post button. I sort of wanted to distract everybody from the fight. I know that's not my job. I know I'm not queen or king of anything. Especially not of PC.

I was quite nervous about even looking at the forum today, it's been a long time since I've gone off, popped my cork, puked on everybody.

Forgive me my rant, please.

And seriously, thank you for the jokes.

Did you hear about the Polish guys who started a car-pool?
They all met at work.

Cynthia

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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 13:13:28 (EST)
From: Marshall
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Re: Thanks for the jokes...
Message:
Hi Cynthia,
I'm sorry too.
I kind of jumped in and spread lighter fluid onto the coals.

For some reason I am kind of a self appointed vigilante against racism and anti-semitism among my peers. Just the other day, in fact, I had a row with a friend over a similar situation, and wound up glad that I had brought it up.
This forum is a good place to hash some of these things out, as long as things don't stray too far from the original purpose.
Bye Marshall

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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 20:33:23 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Is this guy even MORE banal?
Message:
Laughing Indian guru packs in the crowds

NEW DELHI (Reuters)

- There's a wintry nip to the air but the crowd sitting on the hard ground only has eyes for a laughing, white-robed man on stage -- India's newest spiritual phenomenon in the land of gods and godmen.

The perpetually smiling guru who styles himself as His Holiness Sri Sri Ravishankar, is packing in crowds across India with his tension-busting breathing technique and 'don't worry, be happy' recipe for living.

Ravishankar, dubbed 'the fastest growing guru in the marketplace of happiness' by news magazine India Today has also carried his feel-good message to stressed-out world leaders at the prestigious Annual World Economic Forum.

Some of his sayings may seem cringe-making, like 'Make the divine your Valentine,' or nonsensical: 'I can put a toffee on your tongue, I can't make you taste it', or basic: 'Take life as it is.'

You'll want to write those down somewhere, Dog.

But his 'Art of Living Movement' has cut a swathe through India's chattering classes as well as among celebrities and politicians -- the vice-president is just one of Ravishankar's fans.

The movement, whose followers greet each other hand over heart saying 'I belong to you' -- signifying their common humanity -- boasts followers in 106 countries and says at least 1.5 million people in India have done its course.

At the heart of the movement is a yogic breathing technique which Ravishankar says aims to bring breathing into line with the 'deep rhythms of the universe.'

Once you're in harmony with the universe, so the theory goes, you will be able to ignore life's little -- and big -- troubles as you realize you are just part of the cosmos.

Practice of the breathing technique leads to lower stress, greater energy and happiness, the movement says.

Many of the group's followers pay fervent tribute to Ravishankar, saying he has transformed their lives.

'He's brought me joy. You feel like kicking off your shoes and jumping. You love him,' says a beaming New Delhi devotee, Radhika Hoon. 'He has given me unconditional love.'

At his sprawling 30-acre ashram near the southern city of Bangalore, it's considered a privilege to wash the celibate guru's clothes and cook his food.

NURTURES CHILD IN PEOPLE

Ravishankar, says he seeks to nurture the child in everyone, saying growing up is what complicates people.

Following his own advice, the 45-year-old guru whose jet black hair betrays no gray strands refuses to grow up himself, insisting: 'I am still a child.'

The guru founded his group in 1982 but it has only taken off in India in the past few years.

Sociologists say Ravishankar's messages about finding happiness have struck a chord among many of India's westernized urban elite, alienated from their traditional spiritual supports and sometimes far from their families.

'He serves the needs of the modern urban middle-classes who've lost most of their community links,' says New Delhi sociologist Ashish Nandy. 'They've lost touch with their priest and have been left with a totally desiccated text-bookish faith.'

Ravishankar -- whose brown eyes peer coquettishly from under a white scarf he often wears -- is the latest in a long line of gurus who have shot to prominence in India and beyond.

In the 1960s, Maharish Mahesh Yogi famously taught the Beatles how to meditate and has since spawned a huge international empire teaching 'transcendental meditation.'

Then there was Bhagwan Rajneesh who later changed his name to Osho, famed for his radical ideas on free sex and fleet of 93 Rolls Royces.

There is also Satya Sai Baba, based in Bangalore, who has a loyal and large following throughout India, whose specialty is producing pricey baubles out of thin air.

According to the lore surrounding Ravishankar, he showed a prodigious ability to master the Hindu scriptures -- at the age of four the Bhagavad Gita or Song of the Lord, the holiest Hindu text, was his best friend. And he insisted on offering his food first to his favorite deity.

NOT A BANK MANAGER

After he finished school, his parents tried to get him to become a bank manager but he decide on a spiritual path.

Ravishankar stresses service as a virtue and his followers also take his message to prisons and rehabilitation centers, leading the inmates in chanting and singing.

At Asia's largest prison, Tihar Jail in Delhi, India's toughest and meanest -- murderers, kidnappers and extortioners -- do his breathing courses on the institution's sunbaked lawns, led by some of the city's social elite who sit swaying and smiling in immaculate white robes.

Jail superintendent G. Sudhakar said the course made the prisoners 'more responsible, more respectful, more polite.'

Several of New Delhi's hard-boiled police officers have also done the course at the inspiration of New Delhi's reform-minded police joint commissioner, Kiran Bedi.

For the well-off, Ravishankar's message is reassuring: you don't have to give away all your worldly goods to achieve spiritual happiness.

'If you're poor, it's your responsibility,' he said at a recent rally, telling people to 'stand on your own two feet.'

Hindu religious and political leaders like Mahatma Gandhi have traditionally stressed the virtues of asceticism, saying it plays a key part in spirituality.

Part of Sri Sri Ravishankar's appeal is his reassurance to people that 'they don't have to walk the harsh traditional ways to be pious,' said Nandy.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 22:38:01 (EST)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Why be a Bank Manager
Message:
when you can be a Banality Master.....less hassle, more money.

Your comment to Dog was hilarious Jim.

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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 00:54:02 (EST)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: Btw,no offence Dep Dog :) [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 21:28:54 (EST)
From: Deputy Dog =)
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: How about this one Jim!
Message:
How can you think and
hit at the same time?
-- Yogi Berra
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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 21:39:06 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog =)
Subject: Re: How about this one Jim!
Message:
That one's okay.

Mind you, as Jesus of Nazareth, Judea said, 'It takes two to tango'.

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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 09:54:14 (EST)
From: Deputy Dog =)
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: How about this one Jim!
Message:
It just dawned on me that the folks in England, OZ, Europe ect. might not get the Yogi Berra quote, so here's another.

'People say that what we're all seeking is a meaning for life....I think that what we're really seeking is an experience of being alive, so that our life experiences on the purely physical plane will have resonance within our innermost being and reality, so that we can actually feel the rapture of being alive.'
-- Joseph Campbell

BTW PatC and I agree on what meditation is. In his reply to me PatC said, and I quote:

You said: 'When I meditate I feel better. I feel smarter, I feel safer, I feel better, and I feel more like me. It has an intuitive validity. I can't deny my experience. Basically all people want to do is to feel good. When we feel good we are more likely to be an asset on this planet than a liability. C'est tout.'

I could not agree more with you. Taking a little time out for myself everyday to relax the tensions in my mind and body works wonders for me and I've been doing it for over 30 years. But enjoying my breath and smelling the roses and feeling nice ain't god and not everybody does that through meditation. Everyone's got their own way.

Okay PatC, we'll leave god out of it. Everyone's got their own way.

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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 15:13:03 (EST)
From: Francesca :~)
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog =)
Subject: 'But I would not feel so all alone ...
Message:
... everybody must get stoned.'
--Bob Dylan

Anway Dog, I'll join the quote fest so you won't feel so all alone. Someone in Seattle (not an ex or a premie) sent these to me today:

The poetic
'This existence of ours is as transient as autumn clouds.
To watch the birth and death of beings is like looking at
the movements of a dance. A lifetime is like a flash of
lightning in the sky, rushing by, like a torrent down a
steep mountain.'
-The words of Buddha, quoted by
Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche

The practical -- so much for Rawat's promise/theory that we would find the purpose of our lives:
'The whole idea of meditation is to develop an entirely different way of dealing with things, where you have no purpose at all. In fact, meditation is dealing with the question of whether or not there is such a thing as purpose. One is not on the way somewhere. Or rather, one is on the way and is also at the destination, at the same time.'
- from Meditation in Action by Chögyam Trungpa, Rinpoche

Bests ta ya, Dog. I really loved your post/epiphany that happened after you read Mike Finch's breakdown of the different types of premies. Different strokes and all that.

Francesca

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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 20:25:48 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Francesca :~)
Subject: Wow! What a groovy paradox!
Message:
...One is on the way and is also at the destination, at the same time

-- yawn

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Date: Sat, Feb 09, 2002 at 18:30:26 (EST)
From: Chuck Ling
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Wow! What a groovy paradox!
Message:
...One is on the way and is also at the destination, at the same time

-- yawn


---

As opposed to Jim Heller, who is obviously unaware of both.

And smarter than Buddha.

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Date: Sat, Feb 09, 2002 at 00:56:56 (EST)
From: Francesca :~)
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Groovy pair'a ducks
Message:
One is on this page and in one's chair at the same time

'I'm in your mind!'

---
Jim Carrey, playing Charlie Manson on 'In Living Color'

-- bong!

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Date: Sat, Feb 09, 2002 at 03:51:11 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Francesca :~)
Subject: Re: Groovy pair'a ducks
Message:
Hey guys, give Guru Dildo a break! English is his second language. Isn't it? I hope......................
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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 14:35:45 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog =)
Subject: Poochie, you can leave god in...
Message:
...if you are comfortable using words that are impossible to explain to someone else. I certainly haven't ruled god out completely. It's just as hard to prove the non-existence of god as it is to prove her existence.

But, yeah, I'll stick with describing meditation as a mental health exercise that enables me to slow down and take it easy enough to smell the roses which are sufficiently magical and miraculous for me. The world is beautiful enough. I don't need anymore.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 20:58:24 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Probably not...
Message:
But there is some new material on ELK that is stunning in it's banality. I'll leave Janice to you Jim, since she's a favorite of yours.

Stojan Svet: Three powerful issues
From Postojna, Slovenia

Thirst,
fulfilment,
and gratitude
are my favorite issues...
But these issues and some others
have to be re-discovered
and felt
through
this breath
by the self...
Issue number four is the number
of my master's techniques
which always steer me back to issue number one
which as you already know resides
within my sweet grateful heart...

How 'bout them apples? This guy needs to go number two badly, I suspect.

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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 04:54:55 (EST)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: I take issue with everything this guy said [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 19:23:44 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: epowebmaster@yahoo.co.uk
To: All
Subject: New Journeys Entries on EPO
Message:
David M and 'Kontrary' have submitted their journeys. If anyone else wishes to tell their story, here's the place to do so.

'A bunch of lonesome and very quarrelsome heroes
were smoking out along the open road;
the night was very dark and thick between them,
each man beneath his ordinary load.
'I'd like to tell my story,'
said one of them so young and bold,
'I'd like to tell my story,
before I turn into gold.'

You know, I think Leonard Cohen has had more influence on my thinking and has given me more enjoyment than Prempal Rawat.

John.

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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 15:20:39 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Yes, I blame you ex-premies...
Message:
.....for sucking me into a cult. :C)

Like David M said: ''It wasn't Maharaj Ji at first, it was the people...''

Yes, you guys were so damn sweet and I just got sucked into the cult by your love and enthusiasm. It's all your fault! ;)

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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 02:51:17 (EST)
From: wolfie
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: leonhard cohen
Message:
.....I try to forget and I don't remember what .....ciao wolfie
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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 17:43:31 (EST)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: All
Subject: are the HK's declaring bankruptcy?
Message:
I heard a very short blurb on TV this afternoon that the Hare Krishna organization has officialy declared bankruptcy, in response to the $400 million dollar law suit against them from former students.
The former students claim that they were abused in many ways by some of the HK 'teachers', especially the children.

Has anyone else heard this?

Doesn't it seem that the maharaja of malibu would be strategizing about how to dissolve EV, while still taking in the donations, in order to stay away from any potential law suit, esp. regarding his involvement with jagdeo?

Any legal minds care to speculate on how this applies to m?

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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 15:51:52 (EST)
From: Salon.com
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Here's a link to the story...
Message:
The HK's are indeed filing bankruptcy in order to force the litigants to drop their lawsuit. I hope they don't, because extracting bucks is not the only resolution to that type of lawsuit. A guilty verdict would do wonders for the victims of their pernicious and predatory acts.
[ HK Bankruptcy ]
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Date: Sat, Feb 09, 2002 at 09:14:13 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Salon.com
Subject: Here's another one, with discussion board
Message:
International Society for Krishna Consciousness & Child Abuse (english)
by Ferganoid 8:50am Fri Feb 8 '02 (Modified on 10:03am Fri Feb 8 '02)

While the converts swayed and jingled and proselytised, back at the gurukula, the sect's boarding
schools set up inside its ashrams, vile abuse was being practised on the same converts' children.

It is a religious sect with deep roots in Hinduism, a sect that celebrates divine love and surrender to the divine will. It is the sect
that enthralled George Harrison when he was still a Beatle, and counted him among its most loyal devotees until the day he
died. At his cremation in December, two of his fellow believers sat either side of the corpse, chanting.

But the International Society for Krishna Consciousness - better known as the Hare Krishna Movement - also has a dark and
violent past that has come back to haunt it. Financial ruin is now on the cards for the Hare Krishnas. In New York yesterday,
the organisation's communications director, Anuttama Dasa, announced that the movement was headed for bankruptcy and
was seeking protection from its creditors. Later this month the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, or Iskcon as it
calls itself, will file for what is known as Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection.

In June 2000, the organisation was hit with a $400m (£283) lawsuit alleging sexual and emotional abuse on a huge scale.
Leaders of the sect say that the amount of compensation sought is far greater than the value of all the Hare Krishna temples in
the United States put together.

Even if they were to fight and win, says Mr Dasa, the legal costs could bankrupt them anyway. Mr Dasa said he hoped that the
Hare Krishna communities would be able to establish a substantial fund 'to help any young persons who may have been
abused'.

The Hare Krishna folk are among the most readily ridiculed of oriental sects: processing in a long, ragged, wobbly crocodile
along major shopping arteries such as Oxford Street, eyes half closed in ecstasy, brows encrusted with holy ash, tiny cymbals
chiming, saffron dhoties swaying from side to side. But, behind the facade of blissful piety and vegetarianism, terrible deeds
have been taking place, year after year.

The Hare Krishna Movement is the cult of the Hindu god Krishna, who is depicted as a young boy stealing butter in his
mother's kitchen, as a youth beguiling his herd of cows with the music of his flute. Yet it was the children of the Krishna
devotees who suffered, as the organisation itself has frankly admitted. Sexual abuse, physical and mental torture, systematic
terrorisation of children as young as three - these were routine practices in many of the sect's boarding schools.

But even in the early 1970s, Hare Krishna was in conflict. On the outside all was bliss and devotion and harmony, but while the
converts swayed and jingled and proselytised, back at the gurukula, the sect's boarding schools set up inside its ashrams, vile
abuse was being practised on the same converts' children. According to a professor of sociology at Middlebury College in
Vermont, E Burke Rochford Jr, who has made an extensive study of the problem, abuse at the sect's schools, including sexual
abuse and violence, was widespread throughout the lifetime of such schools.

Estimates, he says, range from '20 per cent of all students ... suffering some form of abuse to as many as 75 per cent of the
boys enrolled at the Vrindavan India gurukula having been sexually molested during the late 1970s and early 1980s.' According
the suit filed in Dallas, Texas, in June 2000 by 44 former students at the schools, children were beaten, raped and forced to
stand for hours in darkened cupboards. Some, the suit alleged, were scrubbed with wire wool until they bled and deprived of
medical care when sick with malaria, hepatitis or broken bones. One plaintiff, Greg Luczyk, recalled being beaten five times
every day with wooden boards while attending one of the schools in India.

The Dallas school, the first to be set up, in 1971, was closed down by the authorities in 1976, and right across the sect's
empire - it claims 300 temples in 71 countries, and 10,000 temple-based members worldwide - all the ashram-based schools
were closed down by 1986, bringing to a close one of the ugliest chapters of religious hypocrisy of recent times.

The sect has not attempted to deny that things went badly wrong at its schools. Anuttama Dasa, the communications director,
commented when the suit was originally filed: 'If the events alleged in this suit did occur, we regret that they did.' A director of
the organisation, Dhira Govinda, said: 'There is no doubt that many children did suffer while under the care of the
organisation.'

But why did it happen? Why, in a community dedicated to spiritual elevation, should children be tortured and raped? The key
reason, according to Professor Rochford, was that devotees of the sect were supposed to put spiritual practice first. 'Marriage
and family life came to symbolise spiritual failure,' he said, 'and children a sexual product of that failure.' The children who
were the victims of this pseudo-monastic stigmatisation have now some hope of getting at least a modicum of financial
compensation, which will of course do nothing to restore their blasted childhoods.
[ Indymedia article plus discussion board ]

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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 13:44:29 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: I'm no legal mind...
Message:
la-ex,

I didn't watch the news yesterday so I didn't hear about the bankruptcy, but I did watch a documentary a while ago about the many abuses in that cult--especially against children.

Cult bankruptcy equals no restituion money for the abused? Litigation stopped in it's tracks? As I said I'm no legal mind.

I did watch part of the Enron hearings on C-Span though, unbelievable. If I had a buck for every time one of those Enron board members said ''I don't recall,'' or ''not in my recollection,'' I'd be rich.

Best,
Cynthia

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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 17:44:41 (EST)
From: Walter Cronkite
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Re: are the HK's declaring bankruptcy?
Message:
Yes, I heard about this on CNN today.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 14:54:19 (EST)
From: Larkin
Email: larkin@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: All
Subject: Brand new poem: 'Don't!'
Message:
Don't!

Don’t accept a gift horse ‘til you’ve checked its dentistry
Don’t sit under the apple tree with anyone else but me
Don’t make big decisions when you’re stressed, depressed or drunk..
And don’t believe in miracles, ‘til you’re sure it’s not all bunk
Don’t go changing just to please me, Billy Joel said
(Since when I’ve never changed at all, but stayed the same instead.)
And here’s one extra warning to secure your mental health:
Don’t you take my good advice..
Just work it out..
Think it out..
Sort it all out….for yourself.

Don’t go reading self-help books – they help their authors most
And don’t believe in Holy Father, Mother, Son or Ghost
Don’t smoke, don’t drink, don’t laugh, don’t **** - stay well clear of fun
It’s sure to kill you soonest, yea - before you’ve e’en begun..
(No, scotch those last sad comments – they’re for antisocial freaks
But get pissed, get laid, squander all and clamber every peak)
And here’s one extra warning to preserve your mental health:
Don’t you take my good advice..
Just sort it out..
Think it out..
Work it all out….for yourself.

Don’t jump to conclusions ‘til you’re sure it’s done and dusted
And don’t say ‘guilty’ to the cops the moment you get busted
Don’t burn bridges, burn your boats or any kind of arson
And please remember ‘p’s’ and ‘q’s’ when talking to the parson
Don’t do anything out of fear – just do it out of love
And always pull the other way when push comes ‘round to shove
And here’s an extra warning to ensure your mental health:
Don’t accept no good advice..
Just sort it out..
Work it out..
Think it all out….for yourself.

Don’t ever trust a guru ‘til you’ve studied his CV
And ne’er forget that good ideas will usually come for free..
’Don’t wear sandals, can’t afford scandals’, Bobby Zee once said
(Perhaps too many psychoactive chemicals in his head?)
Don’t treat constipation ‘til you’ve found the right utensil
- I hear the bunged-up Maths Prof works it all out with a pencil..
But here’s my final warning to protect your mental health:
Don’t just swallow ‘good advice’..
But sort it out..
Think it out..
Live it all out….for yourself.

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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 12:07:51 (EST)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: Larkin
Subject: Probably your best work LarkinDon't!'
Message:
But...arson and parson... Hmmmmm!
apart from that a masterpiece...geddit?
love Kelly
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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 04:26:26 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Larkin
Subject: Who's Billy Joel?
Message:
Do I smell the missus' Geordie vowels in there somewhere, ee by gum, lad?
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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 21:02:15 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Larkin
Subject: ***Don't miss this post***
Message:
Hi Larkin,

Real nice stuff, I hope you didn't lose too much of your poems.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 15:59:17 (EST)
From: JohnT
Email: jtucker@cafonline.org
To: Larkin
Subject: You're in good form, Larkin
Message:
Those Larkin rhythms go down a treat. But when do the Collected Works go online? I can offer www.poetsroads.demon.co.uk/larkin if that would expedite things.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 16:42:25 (EST)
From: Larkin
Email: None
To: JohnT
Subject: Small, but perfectly formed...
Message:
Ta, John. Following a virus attack I accidentally killed the Larkin page whilst decontaminating. Chuck S saved an earlier incomplete version, which has helped..I have the originals all on disc somewhere, I think, but it might take a bit longer to get them properly indexed and online. Thanks for the offer, but webspace is not the problem - time is. But I'd be happy to set-up mutual links between ex-cultster poetry pages later, if you are into that.

Larkin
Never a poet...

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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 15:26:25 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Larkin
Subject: Never trust a Guru til you've studied his CV
Message:
Never trust a Guru til you've studied his CV - nice one, Nigel! (nt)
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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 19:22:14 (EST)
From: I'm dumb
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: wot's a CV?
Message:
it's me, janet. is 'CV' a briticism or is it a widely understood term?
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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 19:41:41 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: I'm dumb
Subject: Curriculum Vitae
Message:
It is the Euro equivalent of a resume. But a CV really should include more than a resume. We use that term inter-changeably w/resume here in Victoria.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 23:12:33 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: Same in the U.S. ...
Message:
Curriculum Vitae is a puffed up word for resume.

Usually used by those who have a long, long, long resume.:)

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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 04:30:53 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Every syllable worth a few more bucks
Message:
Curriculum vitae has more syllables than resume. Add some bucks.

In the restaurant trade - the more syllables the better and if it's in French, it's worth even more.

When's it's in Latin in the macho-macho-man world it's worth a lot more. :C)

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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 15:36:17 (EST)
From: Larkin
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Thanks, but..
Message:
Who's Nigel?
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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 15:41:27 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Larkin
Subject: Re: Thanks, but..
Message:
ooops ... omigod ... I mean ...yeah, who's Nigel?

There was this cat and this bag, see ....

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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 15:20:24 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Larkin
Subject: Bravo! Larkin!
Message:
a really, really, really good one,

Love,
Cynth, hey, how's your love life goin'? b)

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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 16:36:04 (EST)
From: Larkin
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Love life?
Message:
'Yes, yes, yes...!'
(I'll leave you to guess..)
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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 23:10:51 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Larkin
Subject: Re: Love life?
Message:
Larkin,

Guess? Guess? Guess you forgot you told me!

Larkin, your secret is safe with me

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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 13:11:25 (EST)
From: Gregg
Email: binduesque@yahoo.com
To: All
Subject: The Empty-Calorie Satguru
Message:
When Prem Pal Rawat was just a little tyke of a Guru, he used to explain the concept of a Master to Westerners a bit uncomfortable with the concept in the following manner:

'If you want to learn math, you go to a math master' (I am quoting inaccurately from memory here, but you get the idea. Part of the disingenuousness is the borrowing of the British usage of 'master' for 'teacher.') If you want to learn tennis, you go to a tennis master. So if you want to learn about perfection, you go to a Perfect Master, one who has mastered perfection.'

So here's the question I would ask open-minded premies (an oxymoron, by definition): does Maharaji speak as one who has mastered meditation? Does he show any evidence of having spent any time on the meditation cushion? Or, if he doesn't need to actually 'meditate,' being the Master and all that, does he often give out useful advice on meditation to help his students through the process?

I mean, forget about all the dirt on the EPO site. Pretend that ex-premies made up all this stuff about his drinking, his womanizing, his abusive tirades and so forth. Pretend that he never said he was Lord of the Universe. Pretend that acid-addled sari-lovers were the creators of the cult once known as Divine Light Mission, and things are all better now.

Just ask yourself this question: Is Maharaji, judging by his words alone, a competent teacher of meditation?

Here are some instructions from a recently dead Buddhist teacher to contrast with the meandering metaphors of Maha: (with apologies to y'all anti-breath fetishers out there)

Maha Ati

by H.H. Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche

'The everyday practice is simply to develop a complete acceptance and openness to all situations and emotions, and to all people, experiencing everything totally without mental reservations and blockages, so that one never withdraws or centralizes into oneself.

'When performing the meditation practice one should develop the feeling of opening oneself completely to the whole universe with absolute simplicity and nakedness of mind, ridding oneself of all protecting barriers.

'Don't mentally split into two when meditating, one part of the mind watching the other like a cat watching a mouse.

'There should be no feeling of striving to reach some exalted goal or higher state; this simply produces something conditional or artificial that will act as an obstruction to the free flow of the mind. One should never think of oneself as 'sinful' or worthless, but as naturally pure and perfect, lacking nothing.

'When performing meditation practice one should think of it as just a natural function of everyday living, like eating or breathing, not as a special, formal event to be undertaken with great seriousness and solemnity. One must realize that to meditate is to pass beyond effort, beyond practice, beyond aims and goals, and beyond the dualism of bondage and liberation.

'Meditation is always perfect, so there is no need to correct anything. Since everything that arises is simply the play of the mind, there are no 'bad' meditation sessions and no need to judge thoughts as good or evil. Therefore, one should not sit down to meditate with various hopes or fears about the outcome; one just does it, with no self-conscious feeling of 'I am meditating,' and without attempting to control or force the mind, and without trying to become peaceful.

'If one finds that one is going astray in any of these ways, one should stop meditating and simply rest and relax for a while before resuming.

'If, either during or after meditation, one has experiences that one interprets as results, they should not be made into anything special; recognize that they are just phenomena and simply observe them. Above all, do not attempt to recreate them as this opposes the natural spontaneity of the mind.

'Simply plunge straight into meditation at this very moment with your whole mind, and be free from hesitation, boredom, or excitement.

'When meditating it is traditional and best, if possible, to sit cross-legged with the back erect but not rigid. However, it is most important to feel comfortable, so it is better to sit in a chair if sitting cross-legged is painful.

'Do not make the mistake of deliberately trying to force these experiences to recur, for to do so is to betray the naturalness and spontaneity of reality .'

Is there anything in the literature of EV to compare with these words? And i don't mean to specifically compare Prem Pal with Dilgo. You could find similar meditation instructions by the thousands in any New Age bookstore. Every meditation teacher has something to say about how to meditate.

Is there any Guru out there who has less to say about how to meditate than Maharaji? I can't think of one.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 19:45:37 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Gregg
Subject: Erika's Says He's the BEST -- care to comment??????
Message:
Gregg and everyone:

Below is a cult apologist (Erika Andersen) view of why one needs a Master, particularly Maharaji. This used to be on her 'Please Consider This' website until it bit the dust. If you can once again endure Erika's simplistic, painful, metaphors (this one was SO bad that she asked permission), this is her explanation for why Maharaji is such a great teacher/master.

Care to Comment?

Who Needs A Teacher??

A number of Maharaji's critics, I find, don't have a problem with Knowledge itself; many of them note that they still practice it and derive benefit from doing so. Their problem, they say, is with the way Maharaji has 'brainwashed' his students into thinking that he has anything to do with the process. They encourage his students to free themselves from their 'dependence' on him, claiming that they don't need him in order to experience Knowledge.

Permit me a metaphor, if you will. Let's say you have always wanted to sing, but don't know if you can. Then you meet a master vocal coach who sees your potential and coaxes it out of you; she teaches you the basics of vocal production and shows you that you actually have a beautiful voice.

What would you do then? Say thanks after that first, revelatory lesson and be on your way? Or would you choose to study with her for as long as she cared to teach you taking advantage of her mastery in order to learn how to use your gift?

Your decision would depend, in large part, on how much you valued your ability to sing, and how much you wanted to develop your talent. If you just wanted to sing in the shower, you probably wouldn't see much benefit in having a teacher. But if you really wanted to take full advantage of your natural talent to become an excellent singer you probably would jump at the chance to learn from that teacher.

Your decision, of course, would also depend on whether or not you trusted the teacher. If you believed she had just somehow stumbled into showing you your gift, but was incapable of developing it in you, odds are you wouldn't want to continue the student/teacher relationship with her.

Ultimately, your decision about whether to work with the teacher would depend on whether or not you wanted to be a student. Some people, I know, want to achieve their goals on their own, without help from anyone else. For these people, receiving guidance from a teacher feels unnecessary, disempowering, or overly constraining.

Let's say, though, that you do want to improve your singing, you do trust the teacher, and you do feel comfortable being in the role of student. What, then, can a good teacher offer?

Part of my work as a management consultant involves helping people learn. In this capacity, I've seen that learning to do something new involves cycling through the following phases: 1) Awareness; 2) Motivation; 3) Skills; and 4) New Behaviors. And it's not just a one-time cycle. Ongoing learning is an ever-deepening spiral of these four phases. A really great teacher helps you keep moving through these phases as deeply as you want to go.

Staying with our singing metaphor, here's what those four phases of learning might look like. Once your natural gift has been uncovered, your teacher helps keep you aware of that gift. She reminds you what you're capable of, so the awareness of your potential doesn't get lost in the day-to-day, and so you don't lose heart. Next, she sparks your motivation by reminding you how wonderful it feels to sing, having you listen to beautiful singing (perhaps her own singing), or showing you how your effort is paying off by pointing out improvements. Then, she offers new skills: tips, guidelines, tools and support for developing your abilities. Finally, she provides low-risk opportunities in the learning environment to practice these new behaviors, to make sure they're firmly established.

And the next lesson? The same but deeper: your new behaviors will have yielded a heightened awareness and motivation, upon which your teacher will help you build by offering additional skills, producing more new behaviors that is, even more beautiful singing. And so on. That's why people who sing at the Met still have vocal coaches: they recognize that the process of learning if you have a capable teacher is infinite.

So my response to those who say I don't need Maharaji is this: you're right. In the very strictest sense of the word, I don't 'need' him. I've already been shown the gift of Knowledge, and theoretically I could continue, on my own, to practice it for the rest of my life. That, however, seems to me a less sure and more difficult road to follow. As in our singing example, I do want to take full advantage of the gift, I do trust Maharaji to help me, and I am willing to be a student. I want to explore as deeply as possible the beauty I've been shown, and I feel confident that continuing to embrace Maharaji as my teacher will help me do that far better than I could on my own.

For almost thirty years, Maharaji has consistently reminded me that joy exists within me (awareness); inspired me to take advantage of it (motivation); provided tools, guidelines and tips for practicing (skills); and offered focused opportunities to try them out (new behaviors). He is, in my experience, a master teacher the best teacher by far, of any kind, I've ever had.

And then there is another, equally important reason that I am Maharaji's student, one more subtle yet equally powerful. Beyond the logic (I want to learn, he wants to teach, I trust him to do so), there is the relationship that has grown between us over the years. When someone really helps you, in any way, the natural impulse is to feel grateful. Gratitude, freely offered, is a delight to both giver and receiver: I feel enormous gratitude to Maharaji. And when two people work together as student and teacher, especially over a long period of time, a deep affection and appreciation develops in each for the other. My relationship with Maharaji, and the joy and satisfaction it brings, has become for me an intrinsic part of the process of Knowledge.

In the final analysis, whether or not I 'need' Maharaji in some absolute sense is irrelevant to me. Because I value the gift he showed me, because I trust him to teach, because I am willing to learn and because of the love I have for him and he for me. I continue to accept his offer to be my teacher. From my point of view, my decision has paid tremendous dividends: I've found his help, and his presence in my life, inexpressibly valuable.

Erika Andersen
October 07, 2001

What is missing from this picture? Right, what does M have to do with it, besides 'reminding' her, I guess, to breathe?

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Date: Sat, Feb 09, 2002 at 19:02:53 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Erika's Metaphor...
Message:
Hi Joe, I'll give it a try:

Erika is in bold:

Permit me a metaphor, if you will. Let's say you have always wanted to sing, but don't know if you can. Then you meet a master vocal coach who sees your potential and coaxes it out of you; she teaches you the basics of vocal production and shows you that you actually have a beautiful voice.

There is something wrong with this metaphor. First, I don't know anyone with a gifted voice who aleady doesn't know it. Anyone can take singing lessons or hire a master vocal coach. A vocal coach cannot ''coax'' a gift. The gift of vocal cords, a sense of music or natural talent is a random thing, probably part genetic, part environmental, because not everyone has the ability to sing beautifully or have perfect pitch. A vocal coach can do nothing but teach techniques which someone can then practice, sometimes with dreadful results. Those vocal cords and the ability to produce human sounds from a human instrument has got to be random. It's not universal. Same with maharaji and knowledge.

What would you do then? Say thanks after that first, revelatory lesson and be on your way? Or would you choose to study with her for as long as she cared to teach you taking advantage of her mastery in order to learn how to use your gift?

It depends on what the vocal coach tells you about your voice. First of all, the master vocal coach is charging you money for his/her ability to teach. If that coach is a good one, then you pay and say thank you, and the coach says thank you in return. Quite different from m. That vocal coach makes an assessment of the singer i.e., does this student have a real talent that begs development or does this person just like to sing and wants to learn some techniques to help him/her gain some control over their diaphram and gain ability to vocalize?

Your decision would depend, in large part, on how much you valued your ability to sing, and how much you wanted to develop your talent. If you just wanted to sing in the shower, you probably wouldn't see much benefit in having a teacher. But if you really wanted to take full advantage of your natural talent to become an excellent singer you probably would jump at the chance to learn from that teacher.

Wrong again. This assumes that everyone has a natural talent to sing. It's simply not true. I think everyone can 'sing,' but there are those individuals who have what is called a so-called ''gift.'' It is a genetically inherited set of vocal cords, and perhaps having lived in an environment where singing and listening to music has developed a true love for music. The gifted/trained singer send chills up the spine of the listener and there are those who simply like to sing. Big difference.

Your decision, of course, would also depend on whether or not you trusted the teacher. If you believed she had just somehow stumbled into showing you your gift, but was incapable of developing it in you, odds are you wouldn't want to continue the student/teacher relationship with her.

Again, this assumes that everyone has ''the gift of singing.'' The trust part in this metaphor is incorrect. If you find a lousy vocal coach you fire them. You don't shower them with money because they falsely tell you you have a gift. There is a small need for trust. When one searches for a vocal coach it's neccessary to know that person has credentials to even be teaching you. Again, the vocal coach, if qualified, is charging you for the classes.

Okay, when I was nineteen I decided it time to find a vocal coach. I knew of one very excellent teacher, actually a husband and wife team. The husband was the vocal coach, the wife played the piano, but also had a beautiful voice, as did their daughter--that's how I knew them, through their daughter in school.

I thought I had a pretty good voice because it's the one thing I always did from early childhood. People always said, Cynthia, you have a gift. So I made an appointment--this was about the time I left home and was on my own and free to make my own decisions. They said, bring some sheet music of something you want to sing. I brought the sheet music from the musical 'West Side Story'' and planned to sing ''I Feel Pretty,' which is much more difficult than I thought.

So, the wife started playing from the sheet music and I started singing. The vocal coach listened through the entire piece. Then there was silence. I was terrified. The vocal coach said to me, well, the thing is this: ''Some people have a natural gift and some people just like to sing. You sing as if I have been teaching you for two years--you need to learn technique, but you have a beautiful voice. Some people walk in here and want to learn how to have a gift and they don't have it and I can't give it to them. I can only teach them techniques. They can come to me for twenty years and the only thing they will gain is technique, not talent, nor gift. You have a gift.

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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 11:28:36 (EST)
From: Suedoula
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: Erika's Says He's the BEST -- care to comment?
Message:
All of that would make sense if what M said had any substance to it. I am surprised and embarrassed to realize, that what I once listened to with such rapt attention and felt was so profound, now sounds like so much drivel.

Erika's own analogy works against her. A real teacher will bring you to deeper levels of understanding what he teaches. M's message -- if you can actually distill a message out of what he says, has been the same since day one. Not very enlightening, many times contradictory and most times repetitive.

Best to all,
Susan

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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 04:31:46 (EST)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Where is the teaching ???????
Message:
For that matter where is the love? Where is the guidance? Where is the the consistant reminder. You mean that part where he often tells us more than once to constantly remember our breath, how profound.

What sort of training on meditation has M has ever conducted with any of his students one that substantiated a real lesson of the subject matter that he has supposedly perfectly mastered?

I haven't heard of one yet, that fiasco in Atlanta was about how to get more people in the cult and berate those in attendance for not doing it right. What kind of guidance has he ever really really offered anyone? For Chrissake, he won't even let you ask him any questions.

What about this Love, if you call those emotionally charged blurtings out across a hall full of hundreds of others an honest expression of love you can keep it. And when m responds back at those events, I love you too, well shit, what would you expect him to say. Looking out over that crowd to him every head represents a dollar sign something that he obviously Loves very much.

Telling them that he loves them back is just protecting his best interests, he doesn't even know who he is talking to in many of those little emotional exchanges anyway, how can that be real love between two people.

Maybe Erika was privvy to a few warm fuzzy intimate little get togethers but she paid the price to be there, and it wasn't because she was the most devoted either. She paved the way to his heart and door with greenbacks.

This is what Erika says about teaching .....

I've seen that learning to do something new involves cycling through the following phases: 1) Awareness; 2) Motivation; 3) Skills; and 4) New Behaviors. And it's not just a one-time cycle. Ongoing learning is an ever-deepening spiral of these four phases. A really great teacher helps you keep moving through these phases as deeply as you want to go.

Teaching by Erika's desciption involves a lesson plan and instructions rendered by someone who assists you directly in learning the subject matter at hand. What we got with M's program clearly does not stack up to the slightest resemblence of student teacher relationship by her own accounting.

Can you imagine in the real world of learning where there would be a case of anyone paying ongoing tuition to someone who tells them to just go off and study by themselves. And that accompanied by a lesson plan with instructions like these: Come back and see me from time to time, but just don't ask questions and don't doubt that you are learning from me and remember to keep doing this for the rest of your life. It's a joke, and one that isn't funny.

Premies, if you are out there, get over it, magical thinking is not an honest and true expression of love, learning or guidance. There is nothing to be learned in the meditation techniques that you cannot find out for yourself.

If you want to learn something learn the lesson of self reliance and choose yourself to be your own teacher.

Get on with your lives, while you still have time, too much of life has passed already, the time has come to finally grow up.

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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 07:07:42 (EST)
From: Steve Mueller
Email: None
To: Brian Smith
Subject: Excellent points, Brian, hear here
Message:
You know, comparing M's buttsang's to Jesus's stuff, he comes up pretty empty, pretty shallow. 'By their fruits ye shall know them'. What kind of fruit has M gotten out of K? Not much that anybody else would want or would want to emulate, from what I can see. Jesus talked about loving your neighbor, turning the cheek, giving of yourself, etc. M said just the opposite. How many times did M say words to the effect of '(agressively) going for it, GRAB(!) for the gusto'. I definitely remember him saying: GRAB many times in the last several years. Which implies: COMPETING, pushing other out of your way, climbing over them to get the best places to sit, the choicest service, the most of his attention, etc. The essence of a philosophy of TAKING. Jesus was all about GIVING, not taking. Big difference.
If you don't walk the walk, you can't talk the talk. In spite of his efforts to hide his basic selfishness and self-absorbtion and his pretending to be some kind of great teacher, the bottom line is that whether you look at what he says or (worse) what he does, how he lives, the bottom line is that he is certainly no one I'd ever want to fashion my life after.

Thanks for good points, Brian.

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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 12:59:30 (EST)
From: Marshall
Email: None
To: Steve Mueller
Subject: Forget Jesus
Message:
Steve,
I think Jesus isn't someone you want to get mixed up with either(IMHO).
'Turn the other cheek'? I hate that, it is so weak and ineffective.(IMHO)

Maharaji is an imbecile, but 'go for the gusto' isn't the worst plan, as long as no one else is hurt in the process, that is.

Competition, like it or not is unavoidable(evolution?)look around you,
sports, contests, awards, etc.

Maharaji sends out a split message.
'The world is terrible, go hide/Go for the gusto'
What an idiot.

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Date: Sat, Feb 09, 2002 at 19:44:56 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Marshall
Subject: Turning the other cheek
Message:
Turning the other cheek allows for the possibility of reconciliation between you and your adversary, and is a good tactic in many conflicts. Of course, sometimes there's a real danger to yourself in a conflict and a more defensive strategy is required. Other times, the only defense is attack.

Wisdom is knowing which approach will lead to the desired result, which is the cessation of conflict.

John.

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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 16:43:47 (EST)
From: Steve Mueller
Email: None
To: Marshall
Subject: Nope, no plans to forget Jesus
Message:
You're entitled to your opinion, but I treasure wisdom (from Jesus - not from Christianity - just the man himself) that works wherever I find it. If it costs me nothing and helps put me in touch with my heart, what's the harm? I'm not particularly pushing Jesus or anything like that but occasionally I do enjoy drawing from his wisdom, that's all.

Happy exing, Marshall.

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Date: Sat, Feb 09, 2002 at 11:57:52 (EST)
From: Sulla
Email: None
To: Steve Mueller
Subject: That's your right...
Message:
There is this web site 'From Jesus to Christ', very interesting. I'll send it, but not now because I'm running out of time.It kind of shocked me at first but then I realized that Jesus wasn't the one who hid anything because for him everything was clear, divine or not as some people try to prove.
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Date: Sun, Feb 10, 2002 at 00:06:19 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Sulla
Subject: Jesus was nuts (and that's being optimistic)
Message:
Jesus was either God Incarnate, a fraud or deluded, just like M. Well the first option's obviously out. So that leaves fraud or delusion. I tend to think the latter based on the historical record, flimsy as it is. Okay, fine, then here's a guy who thinks he's the 'Messiah'. Sorry, Jesus, hate to tell you, there IS no Messiah. You're just another human being, dude. End of story.
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Date: Sun, Feb 10, 2002 at 01:12:18 (EST)
From: Steve Mueller
Email: mistyqm@mn.mediaone.net
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Jesus was nuts (and that's being optimistic)
Message:
After I posted the 'Nope ..' post I realized that I needed to use more prudence about referencing such potentially hot-button words as: 'Jesus'. Many people of many religious faiths received K. Many of them never subscribed to any of the Christian varieties. So, for them, one who is considered to be the founder or spiritual leader of a faith or religion other than the one they grew up with likely means nothing special to them. One of the principals I'm trying to incorporate in my posts is to try to use language that will avoid upsetting such people, those raised under a religious heritage different than my own. So, to you Sulla, and especially to you, Jim, I apologize if you feel I insulted your own strongly-held religious beliefs. I certainly did not mean to. And I most DEFINITELY am NOT pushing any kind of religion.

I thought I had clarified things by saying that my only purpose in quoting or referencing 'that man' was that some of that things 'that man' said resonated with my own experiences of truth. That's all I was trying to say. Nothing more.

You know, I don't play favorites. If another supposedly spiritual teacher said something of value that also mirrored my own experience of truth, I certainly would have or will quote them also.

Also, you know, I wasn't around 2000 years ago. I wasn't there when 'that man' walked the earth so I don't know anything more about him than you do. All I do know about 'that man' is what I have read in certain books. But, I have experienced life and I (think I) have learned a thing or two about its deeper truths. One of the most important and fundamental lessons worth learning about life is that real, true, unconditional, impartial love is the most powerful thing that there is. It is so powerful that it has the capacity of overcoming all barriers and healing all divisions separating peoples. I have realized this totally. You can believe what you want to but nothing you can say will ever make me change that statement. There are other things I have learned, but this is by far the most important thing I have ever learned.

So, I hope you will understand the gist of what I'm saying here. Also, keep in mind that we are dealing with concepts here. Concepts are limited. Even if two people say they agree on the words used to express a concept, even so, there will likely be subtle differences of what that concept means to each of them that will differ from what it means to the other one.

One thing I try to do when reading posts is to listen with my heart as well as my head. I find that helps me to understand the gist or basic feeling of what the person is trying to say. It helps to stop me from going out on a tangent to take a person to task for something relatively minor or from applying an overly narrow interpretation to their post. It also supports their healing. Often I don't agree with everything someone says but I recognize that, as long as it is not a big deal, just the action of my hearing them out WITHOUT overly nitpicking them is performing the service of facilitating their healing, of helping them recover from M. Understand that M has really really hurt a bunch of people in a very bad way. Most of us are in far greater need of supportive nurturing by each other than we are of being excessively corrected.

There are two very very beautiful exes who used to post here recently but who have been absent for awhile. I strongly suspect that they just could not handle the unnecessary slings and arrows on F7 and probably said to themselves, to hell with F7 and exes.

Let's help each other. Let's try not to imitate or emulate M's contempt and hatred.

The Beatles said it best: 'All you need is Love, Love; Love is all you need.'

Peace, guys and I wish you continued happy exing.

Love,

Steve

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Date: Sun, Feb 10, 2002 at 01:54:30 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Steve Mueller
Subject: Who
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 18:43:01 (EST)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Gregg
Subject: excuse me nit-picking
Message:
'If you want to learn math, you go to a math master.If you want to learn tennis, you go to a tennis master. So if you want to learn about perfection, you go to a Perfect Master, one who has mastered perfection.'

By prem's logic he should be called a Perfection Master.
A perfect master is master who is perfect. Which he IS saying these days( and never forget that purity of The Master).

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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 03:12:56 (EST)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: Just like the line in the song
Message:
Who is Guy Maharaji
Who is the master of prefection
That s the question you must ask,
The answer you must know

It went in on to talk about, watch who will be feeding all the people
and a whole lot of other ideological shit that never came to pass

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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 03:48:51 (EST)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Brian Smith
Subject: and premies don't see revisionism?
Message:
talk about the blind leading the blind.

I've just watched some other recent videos (Nottingham 30th aniversary and THE training video.)

I just can't believe all the wanking going on(sorry there is no other word).

The revisionism is soooooooo clear.

Well premies , here we are again......saying nothing....just having a great big spiritual wank together.

pardon the rant

jethro

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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 18:17:35 (EST)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Gregg
Subject: Excellent Obsevation Gregg
Message:
Your points here stand alone as valid representation of the fraud and farce that is GMJ and his mission.

The simple and quite obvious arguement that M never taught us anything about the subject matter that he supposably is master of is quite revealing towards what he is really up to.

He is weaving a web of dependancy on him alone, setting himself up as an avatar, a savior of mankind with the real focus being on him alone. The meditation is just the bait and is secondary to the core of his real purpose which is to hook you into this notion that he is your salvation and that only by believing in him alone can one find happiness in this life.

A bhakti yoga guru and devotee relationship reeking of religious overtures ala christian salvation no less.

To that end he poses an even worse example of an avatar, a savior, as much he drops the ball as a useful master or teacher he really falls short in the role of an avatar.

Anyone who has spent any extended time around him in close proximity will tell you as much. That is, if they can get the ju ju beans out of their eyes and get honest, and several PAMS (premies around maharaji) here have already done just that.

This notion of savior and m's representation of it provokes a whole new inquiry and subject matter for another strong post.

You have given us much to think about with this simple but brilliant observation that makes it so exceedingly obvious that M never lived up to the role of teacher/master.

The only thing he excelled at was to give us ample lip service about the importance of just believing in him unconditionally with no questions or doubts.

Like Pat C stated below, and I concur; you Gregg, have taught me more about meditation in and through this one post of yours than I ever heard or learned from my 3 decade involvment with m and the cult.

Thanks

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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 15:44:53 (EST)
From: Francesca :)
Email: None
To: Gregg
Subject: ***BEST OF FORUM!!!**
Message:
Thanks, Gregg!

Whether people that post here meditate or not, Maharaji poses himself as a master of meditation, and this was a very concise, cogent and practical set of instructions from someone who seems to have actually meditated.

Many premies, especially fence sitters, think they are leaving meditation when they leave Rawat. They may choose to leave meditation, but that's up to them. Plus what does it take to go back to meditation? The next breath? Or the next milisecond of perception?

Premies, wake up.

==f

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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 15:33:24 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Gregg
Subject: Dildo Rimpoche's an idiot
Message:
I bet he was not financially successful while alive and probably died a poor man.

Now if he had wanted to be a successful master like Rev Rawat, he would have said that meditation reveals god, that the meditation was secret and that he was the only one who could reveal, that no one could be saved without the master and he would have not gone into such detail but simply shown the techs and then kept people waiting around for 30 years wanting to learn more. Now that's the way to be a financially successful guru. :C)

Thanks, Gregg, as a fellow meditator, I learned more in 15 minutes from your post than I did in the 27 years I listened to Rawat.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 15:43:36 (EST)
From: c
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Yeah - an idiot. And M's a MASTER! (nt)
Message:
Yeah - an idiot. And M's a MASTER! (nt)
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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 14:31:29 (EST)
From: Carl
Email: None
To: Gregg
Subject: Thank you for this post!
Message:
I knew people sent to the doctor for having given themselves eye damage in trying too hard to 'meditate' on the light.

Not to mention the anguish at trying to 'realize oneness' with God when the whole shebang was about a fundamental duality, how Transcendently Divine M was and how small and utterly worthless were the stupid and sinful premies.

I'd venture that thousands were psychologically traumatized in the attempt to negotiate all that cognitive dissonance.

Talk about duality! Talk about concepts! M world was chockful of conflicting concepts. If one were to actually realize God (whatever that could mean), one would see that M was an impediment.

Your references here were refreshing, clear and simple. As it should have been all along these last thirty years!

Regards,
Carl

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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 15:32:54 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Carl
Subject: Seconded!
Message:
and, Carl, you know the real reasons M changed the techniques to the current 'Knowledge-lite' version? (well, I say 'real reasons' - maybe he had another motive, but I'm pretty sure his insurance adviser would have recommended the change):

1. the 'light' technique had caused at least one poor premie meditator to end up with a detached retina.

2. the 'nectar' technique could easily cause death if the tongue was swallowed while inhaling.

The 'new' techniques, of course, are not what his father, Shri Hans, taught.

Perhaps they were too 'Hindu' for today's premies?

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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 00:09:40 (EST)
From: Steve Mueller
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Thirded! The Emotion is Passed
Message:
Gregg, I can't thank you enough! Thank you, thank you, thank you so much! I have to admit that my own meditating lately has been a bit difficult (being so intertwined with 29 years of M). A prayer of mine lately has been to improve or even change my approach in a way that would help me shed any trace of M in my practice. The simple and practical things talked about here, the meditation pointers that are given feel like they will go a long way to answering that prayer.

(To what address do I mail the check to pay for your spiritual guidance? What? You say spiritual gifts cannot be sold? What if I call it an unsolicited donation to help you spread the word? Amounts to the same thing, you say? Hmm. I guess that makes sense. Guess it didn't make sense to M, huh? Well, thanks a bunch for the freebie, Gregg.)

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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 13:32:43 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Gregg
Subject: M: A Poor Meditation Teacher
Message:
I totally agree. When I first started to doubt Maharaji after reading EPO, I quickly realised something I'd always known but never faced up to, and that is that Maharaji is a very poor meditation teacher. All his teaching is at the introductory level. It's quite clear that when we meditate we have differing experiences, and some guidance about how we deal with these experiences would be useful. Unfortunately for Maharaji, this would require him actually knowing something, or even caring, about his students, like other teachers.

No, definitely 0/10 for teaching skills.

John.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 14:10:39 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Re: M: A PISS-Poor Meditation Teacher
Message:
Remarkable how a man like Mr Rawat, who in all probability meditates about as often as the Pope celebrates Hannukah, sets himself up to be an authority on the subject of revealing meditation techniques to the general public.

Not only that, he has the sheer nerve to call himself a 'Master'. Now, what kind of teacher (let alone 'master') has less experience of his particular subject than even his students? A pretty piss-poor teacher. Which is what Rawat evidently is.

And as for 'philosopher' ... Well!!! Don't premies realise that the guy is SO minor league? Nah, they evidently prefer to ignore the real philosophers and stick with the one they mistook for a real teacher back in the early days.

What a waste.

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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 00:08:46 (EST)
From: WAIT AND SEE
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Re: M: A PISS-Poor Meditation Teacher
Message:
I watch a video today that when we make the transcript is going to make a fool of him. He is totally full of bulshit.

Obviously he snatched my brains because I cannot stand listening him today.

Such a proud, ignorant, mean ass he is.

silvia

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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 20:25:49 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: WAIT AND SEE
Subject: What video is that? [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 16:20:13 (EST)
From: Lesley
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Mr Rawat, an inept and ignorant meditation teacher
Message:
Who claims to offer the gift of self knowledge, or knowledge of god as he styled it in the past, and then gives you four techniques of meditation, and whose teachings on the subject of meditation is limited to duration of sessions and the placement of your fingers.

I would also like to add, just to please myself, that every so often I would look at a photograph of Mr Rawat's face, and he looked like a toad, a speckled ugly toad, a disgusting toad. Manfully I would struggle to erase the thought from my mind, and not turn in revulsion from him. Lesley, you dear darling girl, thanks for having that thought.

Personally I don't think meditation has anything to do with self knowledge, and has some deleterious side effects. My phrase for it is 'emotional flatlining'. Sure, I can imagine there are times and places where it would be very useful to know how to meditate, not that I like it anymore, but, imo, it is not a goal in itself, and certainly not to be pursued at the expense of taking the emotional sparkle out of one's own little existence. There is enough pain inherent in the process of living a life, no need to add a straightjacket, she said with a wicked smile....

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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 15:52:45 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: My First Grade Teacher...
Message:
I was reminiscing just the other night with my husband about my first grade teacher, Mrs. Smolinski.

She was an older teacher with gray hair, and probably near to retirement. She is the most gentle, kind, and intelligent teacher I ever had. She knew I was having a hard time at home, but was helpless--those were the dark ages.

I was a child at risk, I had pulled out all of my eyelashes and she called my Mom to find out what was going on. A real courageous act in the 1950's.

The only time I could be alone with my Mommy was during the day and school was always so hard for me.

One day I felt as if I was imploding or exploding--I didn't know those words then, I just knew I had to get out of that school. I couldn't stay in the classroom, I wanted, I needed, to be with my Mom.

So I wrote a little note to Mrs. Smolinski, walked up to her desk. The note ''I have sore throat.'' She smiled kindly and nodded to me and said, ''Wait a little while to see how you feel.'' Less than five minutes later I wrote another note ''My head hurts.'' She said, okay, wait a little while and see how you feel. Less than five minutes after that, I wrote a note ''My stomach hurts, very, very bad.'' Mrs. Smolinsky looked at me with her kind eyes and gentle spirit and said, okay, I think you need to go home. She sent me to the nurse who called my Mom who picked me up from school.

I was so fond of her, felt so protected by her, even though she was helpless to do anything for me during those days of denial of child abuse.

Flash forward:

When I returned to the cult in 1997 or so, I wrote Maharaji a long letter telling him of what had happened to me in my life as a child and the difficult time I had in adulthood trying to heal from abuse. Did he answer me? Never.

He is not a teacher in any way. He is a self-indulgent child in his forties.

Even when I was in Mrs. Smolinski's class she was able to teach me things. The stuff that 1st graders learn. But what I remember the most was her love for children, for me, and her understanding that while she couldn't solve my problems at home, she certainly could give me a break to be with my Mother when I needed it.

Wherever you are, if there is a heaven, Mrs. Smolinski, I know you are there.

Cynthia

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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 16:30:09 (EST)
From: Marshall
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Re: My First Grade Teacher...
Message:
Hi Cynthia,
That is so sad that you were abused as a child. I'm sorry that happened to you and hope you are in a fulfilling life right now.
I feel lucky that the worst abuse I recieved as a child was being dragged around the country to see the guru, and being neglected and abandoned(sp?), in a way, for the sake of the Guru. That was bad enough, but I know it could always have been worse.
I'm glad you at least escaped the personality cult trap of GMJ's.
Take care of yourself, Bye
Marshall
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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 12:20:45 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Marshall
Subject: I don't post for sympathy...
Message:
Hi Marshall,

I don't post for sympathy, the abuse is part of what made me who I am. I made that post because I wanted to point out that my first grade teacher showed me more love and compassion than maharaji ever did. That maharaji didn't care about those children who were abused by Jagdeo. Some master, eh?

Also, I don't qualify my childhood abuse, i.e., I don't compare it to anyone elses. All child abuse is bad.

I'm just glad that we aren't in the dark ages anymore, that teachers must report at risk children now. One of the things I love about Vermont is that there's literally an army of people here who work contantly and have dedicated their lives to stopping ALL abuse of children.

Not some, all. Pretty amazing...it makes me proud to know them.

Best,
Cynthia

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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 16:26:30 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: she sounds like a person with discrimination
Message:
- wish my own memories of my childhood teachers were as positive.

You know, when M finally wakes up to the fact that he is NOT the 'master' he claims to be, I wonder if he'll feel a bit like that character Buzz Lightyear in 'Toy Story' -

Remember the bit where Buzz and Woody get captured by the psycho kid next door, whose sister then finds Buzz and plays with him for a while.

Buzz Lighyear, dressed up in a frilly hat, taking tea with the dollies, and thinking he's 'Mrs Nesbitt'.

Cue major identity crisis!

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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 15:11:28 (EST)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: You're one funny dude, cq. (nt)
Message:
x
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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 12:47:41 (EST)
From: Livia
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Michael Dettmers
Message:
Does anybody know what has happened to Mike Dettmers? I saw a post by someone called Danielle over on Life is Great to the effect that he has recently retracted a lot of what he said. Does anyone know if this is true? He certainly hasn't posted a word here for ages.

With love, Livia

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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 07:57:47 (EST)
From: Michael Dettmers
Email: dettmers@gylanix.com
To: Livia
Subject: Not true
Message:
Dear Livia,

This is the first I’ve heard about Danielle’s post on Life’s Great. I haven’t seen it, but if she says that I have retracted a lot of what I have said on the Forum, she is mistaken. I retract nothing and stand by everything I have said. Hope that’s clear. As for my posting, as Joe said below, I do monitor the Forum and will continue to post when I am moved to do so.

Michael

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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 08:56:51 (EST)
From: Livia
Email: None
To: Michael Dettmers
Subject: Re: Not true
Message:
Dear Michael,

Thanks for that. I think I'll go over to Life Is Great now and call Danielle with a post, as she needs to know this. She also needs someone to suggest to her that it's just plain wrong to give out false and misleading information - especially when there are hundreds if not thousands of vulnerable, confused premies reading.

With very best wishes, Livia

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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 09:05:52 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Livia
Subject: Something abour Danielle
Message:
She's a French troll, linked to the CAC attacks. No need to discuss with her.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 17:59:00 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Livia
Subject: Not going to happen
Message:
Everything Michael has said has already been backed by others. That is Premie spin. It's interesting to witness their priorities.

Danielle also thought Dermot was Michael Dettmers. She ranted to him with erroneous allegations that MD never said. Danielle is a bit confused. She is primarily upset over the issues going down in France.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 13:18:17 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Livia
Subject: I can't find Danielle's post
Message:
Could you point it out? Unfortunately one of Danielle's idiocyncracies is not putting her name in the 'Your name' field. Another is her apparant disassociation from the consensus view of reality. Ask J-M about her behaviour on the French forum.

John.

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Date: Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 03:43:52 (EST)
From: Livia
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Re: I can't find Danielle's post
Message:
Sorry, John, I can't point it out as it was about 3 weeks ago and I think it's dropped off the end of the page there. I agree with you that she seems confused, but I had noticed that Michael hadn't posted here for a while, and was wondering if perhaps Danielle knew something we don't know. But I think you're probably right. Thanks.

Livia

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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 13:09:35 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Livia
Subject: Re: Michael Dettmers
Message:
Michael Dettmers is doing very well -- I think extremely well, and I believe he monitors the Forum when he can and comments when he feels it is appropriate.

He has retracted NOTHING of what he has said, and with a great deal of integrity, has given important information, standing behind it using his own name. Whoever said that on Lifes Great is a liar.

I think many people who have gotten out of the cult have really appreciated what Michael has had to say over the past couple of years.

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