Ex-Premie Forum 7 Archive
From: Feb 04, 2002 To: Feb 10, 2002 Page: 5 of: 5


Sir Dave -:- I said could be an hallucination, Jim -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 11:43:37 (EST)
__ Jim -:- Fact is, you said both -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 20:14:26 (EST)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Okay, I tell you mine... -:- Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 08:57:41 (EST)
__ __ __ Jim -:- PBS Series on the Brain (and PTSD) -:- Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 11:50:42 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- I watched it Jim... -:- Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 13:18:37 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- HyaCynth -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 19:50:14 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Re: HyaCynth -:- Sun, Feb 10, 2002 at 01:46:19 (EST)
__ __ __ Livia -:- Re: Okay, I tell you mine... -:- Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 10:02:04 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Deputy Dog =) -:- Re: Okay, I tell you mine... -:- Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 13:51:41 (EST)
__ __ __ __ cq -:- an experience resembling this? -:- Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 13:31:25 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ ChrisP -:- Re: an experience resembling this? -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 12:28:02 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- Re: an experience resembling this? -:- Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 14:20:18 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- YOU and iconoclast, Dep? since when? -:- Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 14:49:00 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- a PS to Deputy Dog, (and all other toast-lovers) -:- Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 15:35:05 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Deputy is not a Maha gurupie anymore, cq -:- Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 15:32:32 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- he came pretty quietly, didn't he? -:- Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 16:11:50 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Jesus in drag -:- Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 16:40:55 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- I loved both sites...!! -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 12:09:44 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- Sorry PatC, really not funny -:- Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 23:02:37 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Sulla -:- For some but may not be appropriate here... -:- Sat, Feb 09, 2002 at 13:02:13 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- he wasn't the only one crucified, Dep -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 07:46:43 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog =) -:- Thnaks cq -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 09:07:23 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- Thnaks for what? Ms Acharya S is no flake -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 13:02:28 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ The Father, The Son & The Holy Ghost -:- Life of Brian, indeed! (nt) -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 00:12:37 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog =) -:- Re: Life of Brian, indeed! (nt) -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 00:23:12 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog =) -:- Soory PatC, thought this was from you! [nt] -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 00:47:32 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Sorry, Dog, that was not me -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 04:41:38 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pullaverlooza -:- Dog Doo -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 11:02:15 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- Re: Sorry, Dog, that was not me -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 11:24:43 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pullaver -:- Poochie Poo -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 12:23:44 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- Pull, why read 'drivel?' [nt] -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 12:28:02 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog =) -:- PatC what it all boils down to is... -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 09:22:29 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Dog , for once I agree with you -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 13:32:35 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Hey Dog... -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 12:15:12 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- What about the Life of Pullallover? [nt] -:- Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 00:32:58 (EST)

NET -:- Premie Jan Mourer's POEMS -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 11:08:39 (EST)
__ Nigel -:- These are copyrighted? -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 17:20:47 (EST)

What? -:- I found this-CACa -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 10:59:51 (EST)

Question -:- What is this? -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 10:53:21 (EST)
__ Livia -:- Re: What is this? -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 11:27:57 (EST)
__ __ cq -:- There's a VERY strange 'Jim' post -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 12:38:52 (EST)
__ __ __ Deputy Dog =) -:- Funny, K de-hypnotized me! [nt] -:- Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 23:17:12 (EST)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Not that strange -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 15:32:45 (EST)

janet -:- RICHARD THIS IS TOO GOOD TO PASS UP! -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 07:48:46 (EST)
__ Richard -:- Sorry janet, I don't do cruel -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 12:25:15 (EST)
__ __ janet -:- what's cruel?? it's fashion, dollink -:- Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 04:38:50 (EST)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- Janet, why don't you do it? -:- Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 09:01:00 (EST)

janet -:- OT_for mike finch-truth in jest -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 04:26:37 (EST)
__ Mike Finch -:- Re: OT_for mike finch-truth in jest -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 08:51:28 (EST)

Vicki -:- IRS -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 23:18:15 (EST)
__ cq -:- Important IRS info here -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 07:20:34 (EST)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Careful, Folks... -:- Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 10:10:54 (EST)
__ __ __ Francesca :~) -:- RIGHT ON, CYNTHIA -:- Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 14:17:44 (EST)
__ __ __ cq -:- Good point there, Cynthia -:- Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 12:44:04 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Francesca -:- AND CHRIS is right also -:- Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 14:19:15 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ cq -:- would like to make one thing very clear -:- Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 15:23:46 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- To be more specific... -:- Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 13:51:25 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ cq -:- and right you were to, too :) (nt) -:- Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 14:51:17 (EST)
__ __ Loaf -:- Q11 is a good one [nt] -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 11:28:25 (EST)
__ __ The Maharaji of Malibu -:- answers some tough ones-thanks CQ -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 08:59:02 (EST)
__ __ __ cq -:- LoL! Now answer this, M of M -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 14:38:08 (EST)
__ __ Occasional Poster -:- Re: Important IRS info here -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 08:46:35 (EST)
__ __ __ cq -:- Ask and it shall be given unto thee ... -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 14:14:08 (EST)
__ __ __ __ janet -:- i can't see PDF- can you -:- Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 04:47:32 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ cq -:- Re: i can't see PDF- can you -:- Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 12:53:11 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Good show! Can Canadians participate -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 21:25:25 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ janet -:- of course--let's do it -:- Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 04:51:22 (EST)
__ __ janet -:- le's sue for the info -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 07:21:58 (EST)
__ __ __ cq -:- Sue? Apparently you just have to ask for it (nt) -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 08:00:11 (EST)
__ janet -:- not voluntarily, you mean. [nt] -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 04:28:49 (EST)

Jennifer -:- Perspective from Normaltown -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 21:58:32 (EST)
__ Joe -:- Hi Jennifer -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 13:28:35 (EST)
__ Marianne -:- Hi there Jennifer -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 23:24:04 (EST)
__ __ Jennifer -:- Re: Hi there Jennifer -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 09:11:52 (EST)
__ PatC -:- Re: Perspective from Normaltown -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 22:27:57 (EST)
__ __ Jennifer -:- Re: Perspective from Normaltown -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 09:16:25 (EST)

Julia -:- I'm new here, haters -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 21:08:37 (EST)
__ Jennifer -:- Re: I'm new here, haters -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 21:16:22 (EST)
__ Jim -:- Is this really you, Dermot? -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 21:11:43 (EST)
__ __ Dermot -:- Re: Is this really you, Dermot? -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 21:47:49 (EST)
__ __ __ Andrea Eriksonn -:- DARN! -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 14:35:33 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Go ahead, Andrea, spank me! LOL [nt] -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 17:03:40 (EST)
__ __ Jilly Munchbutt -:- My parents, Bob and Dot Munchbutt -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 21:30:55 (EST)
__ __ __ Dermot -:- Glad someone got it Pat:) [nt] -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 21:50:39 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Jilly -:- Thanks, Julia :C) [nt] -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 21:51:47 (EST)

EBay Alert -:- Who is Guru Maharaj ji? -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 20:17:17 (EST)
__ Ebay Alert -:- There is now...... -:- Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 09:03:43 (EST)
__ Joe -:- I bought a copy on E-Bay -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 12:31:08 (EST)
__ __ Marianne -:- The book -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 17:37:35 (EST)
__ janet -:- well hell-answer the guy! -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 04:34:43 (EST)
__ Jennifer -:- Well, I still have my old copy -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 21:11:25 (EST)
__ __ Dermot -:- Krishnamurti -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 22:04:58 (EST)
__ __ __ Jennifer -:- thanks for the Krishnamurti info -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 09:22:41 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Dermot -:- Ha...good one Jennifer -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 12:51:54 (EST)

EBay -:- -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 20:10:25 (EST)

Joe -:- Passages Spin -- comments, please -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 12:50:17 (EST)
__ janet -:- OK, I confess. I did. -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 07:20:41 (EST)
__ __ Suedoula -:- Re: OK, I confess. I did. -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 18:47:58 (EST)
__ __ Vicki -:- Re: OK, I confess. I did. -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 09:08:52 (EST)
__ bill--but I shunned my mom for 17 years -:- for good reason, dont you get it? -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 23:23:54 (EST)
__ Peter Howie -:- And I remember -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 21:48:11 (EST)
__ __ Jethro -:- Re: And I remember -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 01:12:26 (EST)
__ __ Bai Ji -:- Hi Peter... -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 21:53:04 (EST)
__ __ __ PatC -:- Re: Hi Peter... -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 22:19:26 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Bai Ji -:- Ta Pat..X...(nt) -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 00:40:32 (EST)
__ Barbara -:- Sartorial Saffronization -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 17:44:05 (EST)
__ __ Francesca :~) -:- I had more sedate clothes than nuns -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 00:35:10 (EST)
__ __ __ Barbara -:- Drowning, Not Waving -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 01:45:00 (EST)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Barbara, great post... -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 18:19:58 (EST)
__ __ __ janet -:- didn't I TELL you so?? -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 04:51:32 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Re: didn't I TELL you so?? -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 11:01:52 (EST)
__ __ __ __ janet -:- here-look what I mean! -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 05:01:04 (EST)
__ __ __ PatC -:- Interesting website - worth a look -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 21:45:39 (EST)
__ __ __ Barbara -:- Jeez, they look like the cast of a Navy Musical +) [nt] -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 21:01:51 (EST)
__ Francesca :~) -:- They loved that form of dedication -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 17:17:21 (EST)
__ Richard -:- Religious trappings -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 14:19:16 (EST)
__ __ Joe -:- Good point.... -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 14:41:16 (EST)
__ __ __ Joy -:- Saris?? Huh? -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 02:13:28 (EST)
__ AJW -:- It's another smokescreen. -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 14:13:49 (EST)
__ __ Joe -:- Internal propaganda? -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 14:17:29 (EST)
__ cq -:- Sandy Collier's Spin -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 14:06:34 (EST)
__ Suedoula -:- Re: Passages Spin -- comments, please -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 14:05:27 (EST)
__ __ salsa -:- good post! ARTI -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 17:26:11 (EST)
__ __ Deborah -:- ***BEST of FORUM*** -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 15:39:12 (EST)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- YUP***BEST of FORUM*** Suedoula [nt] -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 15:43:51 (EST)
__ __ Jim -:- Actually -- honestly -- there IS a point there -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 14:49:58 (EST)
__ __ __ Francesca :~) -:- Vastly superior, RIGHT ON, JIM -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 17:25:01 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Joy -:- Re: Vastly superior, RIGHT ON, JIM -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 02:32:28 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Francesca -:- the high horse -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 14:30:38 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Re: the high horse -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 19:01:15 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Re: Vastly superior, RIGHT ON, JIM -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 18:27:34 (EST)
__ __ __ Vicki -:- Re: Actually -- honestly -- there IS a point there -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 15:17:04 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Maharaji claimed he never read... -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 15:28:49 (EST)
__ Nigel -:- attached? - repulsed more like... -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 13:57:38 (EST)
__ Cynthia -:- Re: Passages Spin -- comments, please -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 13:48:30 (EST)
__ Jim -:- I don't see anything wrong with it -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 13:45:13 (EST)
__ __ janet -:- hey jim-a dhoti is just a sari -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 05:24:00 (EST)
__ __ Joe -:- Saris were too unflattering... -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 13:57:50 (EST)
__ __ __ PatC -:- The secret of saris.... -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 15:04:49 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Green Papaya -:- The secret of fitting in... -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 15:49:58 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Skin like an elephant's knee? -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 16:10:10 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Suedoula -:- You gotta admit . . . -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 19:10:32 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- I love Edith Prickly! [nt] -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 19:22:55 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Barbara -:- Who's Edith Prickly? -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 21:16:36 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Edith Prickly? Like Edna Everidge? -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 21:50:02 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Suedoula -:- Re: Edith Prickly? Like Edna Everidge? -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 22:16:33 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Edith Prickley and SCTV -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 22:39:56 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Green Papaya -:- Life in the Melanoma Lane -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 16:23:25 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatD -:- Re: Life in the Melanoma Lane -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 20:17:32 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Vicki -:- Stratford-Upon-Avon?? -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 23:25:56 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatD -:- Re: Stratford-Upon-Avon? -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 12:41:53 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Green Papaya -:- Re: Life in the Melanoma Lane -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 21:13:27 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatD -:- Thanks for the explanation -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 12:46:41 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Life on Collins Ave. circa 1979...Gawd...! -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 22:56:48 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Life in the Fats Lane -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 21:58:23 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Green Papaya -:- Beef Thingies -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 01:51:03 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Vicki -:- Okay, that does it..... -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 16:19:49 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- We'll have an Inidan Latvian Lunch for Cynthia -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 16:23:34 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Brian Smith -:- Yummy, sounds delicious Pat -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 08:14:44 (EST)


Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 11:43:37 (EST)
From: Sir Dave
Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
To: All
Subject: I said could be an hallucination, Jim
Message:
However, my ''manifestation'' seemed totally real at that time. More real than all the programs I'd ever been to or darshan's I'd ever had.

It affected me profoundly and kept me being a premie for another few years. Yes, it really did feel like an instant communication with God and it did feel like a curtain had been lifted and an obvious fact was staring me in the face - the fact that I had an unbroken relationship with God.

That's how it seemed and that's how it felt. However, I accept that it could have been an hallucination or my mind playing tricks with me. The thing is, how does one come to terms with such an experience and still be an ex-premie?

You see, part of me believes that it was real and another part thinks it could be something else. The fact is, I don't know for sure and therefore have to come to terms with it in two ways - both as a skeptic and also as a non-skeptic.

The skeptic in me says that I was somehow (and I can't fathom how) mistaken, while the non-skeptic has come to terms with it by saying that I did not see Mr Rawat but a manifestation of God dressed up as Maharaji.

It's easy for people to pour scorn on this but I'm the one who has had to live with this manifestation all these years. And I am not an atheist and cannot pretend to have ever been one, at most I'm agnostic, so I have had to find my own way to come to terms with what I experienced.

By the way, there was more that I experienced at that time but there's no need for me to relate that here.

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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 20:14:26 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Fact is, you said both
Message:
Dave,

The post I was responding to was this:

[You're right -- I saw God] and I did see God, dressed up as Maharaji. At the time of my own Manifestation of Maharaji/God, there was a huge and rapid communication between He and me that was akin to telepathy, only much deeper. Now I know this is going to sound corny but here's what it left me feeling;

''There has never been a time when you and I have not existed.''

Sound familiar?

In that moment I saw an eternal relationship without beginning and without end, between me and Him. It was as if the curtains had been parted and the obvious fact was staring me in the face. So I don't consider it was an hallucination although I don't mind if other people think it was.

in which you explicitly reject the possibility that you were hallucinating.

What I hadn't done first was read your post before that where, amongst other things, you said:

The only explanation I've come up with is that yes, ''something'' did manifest in front of me and it may have been God. I consider it was God, appearing to me in the form that I'd most easily reckognise. Maharaji was hundreds of miles away in Marbella at the time so it definitely wasn't Mr Rawat.

On the other hand, it may have been an hallucination. But there a fine line is drawn. Where does an hallucination end and a manifestation of some power begin. Of course, this is assuming that there are such things.

in which you do seem to be allowing for that option.

So which is it?

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Date: Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 08:57:41 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Okay, I tell you mine...
Message:
Hi Dave and Jim

At the Kissimmee festival where m was bare chested except for pearls and was on a cart being pulled by the initiators I was standing next to one of the roads as he came by. He glanced into my eyes very briefly and I fell to ground and weeped and moaned while I felt myself revert into a baby or a small child. I felt like a baby crying for it's mother--it was that type of crying. It affected me so deeply I just ''knew'' m was the lord.

What do I think happened at that point now that I'm able to examine it? I had dissociated while having a PSTD flashback of dying inside for my real mom's love and attention.

That experience always plagued me after exiting. All that feeling and crying, and dissociation, along with the mass worshipping going on during that particular event pushed me into a flashback. Not the same type of experience of seeing m appear, which I also think is an hallucination, but powerful nontheless.

Weird stuff happens to people who worship a god-in-a-bod.

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Date: Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 11:50:42 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: PBS Series on the Brain (and PTSD)
Message:
Cynthia,

Last night we saw the aduult brain segment of the PBS series on the brain (see link). One of the things they explained was PTSD and how it's an imbalanced phsyical reaction (excessive signalling from the amygdulla (sp?) at the centre of the brain which has evolved to sense danger and then send emergency adrenalin through the body, then through the rest of the brain, getting to the cerebral cortex where you then associate the fear reaction with whatever you're thinking of. Interesting stuff.

I just took a look at the History of the Brain part of the website. Amazing how much we've learned this past century particularly. Funny, when you look at the parade of characters over the eons who've contributed to our knowledge of self -- what else can you call it? -- there's not a single spiritual master among them. I guess that just shows how much bias there is in the academy or something. :)
[ PBS Brain Series ]

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Date: Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 13:18:37 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I watched it Jim...
Message:
Hi Jim,

Although I've missed the previous airings of 'The Brain,' this one in particular was spot on as the Brits say.

Tom and I just kept looking at eachother saying, yes, yes, and yes.

Your comment about knowledge of self and no masters, but scientists is very true. The study of the brain interests me very much because it is so complex and while so much has been discovered, there is yet so much to be learned--by the scientists.

I felt so bad for the first guy they showed who had the stroke which caused him to lose consciousness of his emotions. That poor wife. I hope she's getting some..err..never mind.:)

Cynth

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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 19:50:14 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: HyaCynth
Message:
Bet you never heard that one before, eh?

Yeah, I just can't get enough of this stuff. And yes it does make a mockery of 'spiritual' knowledge in which, quite frankly, there's no 'there' there.

The guy who lost his emotion? You mean the guy whose doctor told the wife to hold a funeral for him? Yeah, absolutely tragic.

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Date: Sun, Feb 10, 2002 at 01:46:19 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: HyaCynth
Message:
Bet you I never have. I used to think that forsythia bushes, that bloom pretty yellos flowers, the first in the spring were really forcynthia.

I like Hyacynth a lot, thanks.

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Date: Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 10:02:04 (EST)
From: Livia
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Re: Okay, I tell you mine...
Message:
And what about this utterly bizarre but very real experience? Around '74 or '75 I was at my parents' house meditating when suddenly it felt as if a screen had been switched on inside my head. There was an enormous sense of anticipation: I somehow knew something was about to happen. Then - a fantastic Buddhist type mandala appeared inside my head, made up of intensely luminous, vivid colours. It was divided into sections with a fantastical sort of design in each section. The designs were all 'alive' and moving. In the middle was a centrepiece and to my absolute amazement, Micky Mouse and Donald Duck appeared within it, in staggering technicolour detail. Donald Duck was holding a sort of placard that said something of huge significance. I was so stunned that this was happening to me that I stopped meditating and opened my eyes, and of course it was gone and I couldn't get back to it. And I immediately forgot what the 'placard' said. I've never been able to remember it.

Having said all that, I didn't then decide that Micky Mouse and Donald Duck were to be worshipped! God only knows what sort of gopi I would have become if it had been Maharaji in the centre of that mandala!

Has anybody else had an experience resembling this and can anyone shed any light on it?

With love, Livia

PS This was a genuine experience - please don't all leap in and make fun of me, although I expect you'll be tempted to! After all, Micky Mouse????!!! I know, I know!!!

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Date: Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 13:51:41 (EST)
From: Deputy Dog =)
Email: None
To: Livia
Subject: Re: Okay, I tell you mine...
Message:
Livia,

IMO we usually deal with our experiences by judging. Anything that doesn’t fit in with our mental model of how things should be, we reject as weird, crazy, insane etc. The 'judge' keeps our cognitive point of view from blowing up.

I read that 40% of the population of the United States has had a mystical experience, where they saw through the veil. 85% said it was the greatest experience of their life but they wouldn’t want to have it again. Why? Because it upset their apple cart.

It’s frightening to spend your whole life creating an I-dentity and finding out that that’s not who you are. Most people would prefer to stay down in one little corner of life where they can play it safe and look good. Me too.

But what is God must be beyond the concept of God, must be beyond form. That's why I'm becoming increasingly interested in Buddhism where these experiences are dismissed as 'makyo' or illusions. Zen is the unsymbolization of the world.

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Date: Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 13:31:25 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Livia
Subject: an experience resembling this?
Message:

[ You've never heard of Messiah Mickey then? ]
[ Graphic Link ]
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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 12:28:02 (EST)
From: ChrisP
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Re: an experience resembling this?
Message:
this pic just kills me! I can just picture Mickey shimmying his hips away to the Mickey Mouse song oblivious to his reality

an experience resembling that? aye, in the sense I've had a real cartoon character and happy-faced kid for a master!

Cheers,

ChrisP

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Date: Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 14:20:18 (EST)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Re: an experience resembling this?
Message:
Whoa, I guess I'm not as much as an iconoclast as I thought. I find this offensive.

FA please remove this.

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Date: Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 14:49:00 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: YOU and iconoclast, Dep? since when?
Message:
I find your faith in the Maha to be offensive, but do I ask your posts to be deleted? No. Ask yourself why.

'A man who never changes his opinion is as standing water, and breeds reptiles of the mind'.
- William Blake

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Date: Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 15:35:05 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: a PS to Deputy Dog, (and all other toast-lovers)
Message:
you do love toast, don't you Dep?
[ you might like this ]
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Date: Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 15:32:32 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Deputy is not a Maha gurupie anymore, cq
Message:
But it seems that he doesn't like the idea of the crucified Mickey so here's a nicer one for him.

Hey, Poochie, glad you're going zen. :C)
[ Dancing Jesus ]

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Date: Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 16:11:50 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: he came pretty quietly, didn't he?
Message:
Deputy to who, now?
[ A bone from the master's table ]
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Date: Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 16:40:55 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Jesus in drag
Message:
Don't be so hard on Poochie, cq. I like his sense of humor. I hope he likes mine.
[ Jesus in drag ]
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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 12:09:44 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: I loved both sites...!!
Message:
If ya can't make fun of Jesus, well, Jesus H. Christ!

I loved the dancing ones and I really liked the virtual colorform, dress up Jesus too.

Too funny for words.

Keep 'em coming.

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Date: Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 23:02:37 (EST)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Sorry PatC, really not funny
Message:
First off there is nothing funny about crucifixion, and second there is nothing funny about Jesus of Nazareth being crucufied. IMO Jesus was who he said he was, the Son, a form of the Father made manifest on earth, and the Christ, the consciousness out of which form is manifested.

There was Jesus the man and Christ the consciousness, the love, or the Living Spirit. As a Buddhist, I realize that people can come to the Christ other than through the form of Jesus.

Call me an old fuddy duddy if you wish but I find this kind of stuff vulgar. I just can't find anything funny about someone suffocating to death with nails through his wrists and heels.

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Date: Sat, Feb 09, 2002 at 13:02:13 (EST)
From: Sulla
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: For some but may not be appropriate here...
Message:
Yes you are right, I respected Jesus not only because I come from a Catholic family, and I think this may also be inappropiate but I can't help to remember, here between friends, this joke about it. Being crucified, one of the thieves told jesus that if he was God to break free from the nail on one of his hands, and after doing so the other theif requested the same thing of his other hand. Jesus broke free of the other nail and...Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!! ( He fell forward).

When you tell the joke while you say Ahhhhhhhhh! you pretend that you're falling forward.

PS:SIMFL

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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 07:46:43 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: he wasn't the only one crucified, Dep
Message:
crucifixion was a method of execution used very widely in those days. Remember the scene at the end of Spartacus?

How about a deal? I'll respect your right to believe what you've been told about JC, if you'll respect my right to believe what I've found out about the origins of Xtianity - i.e. that there is NO historical evidence that the human being called Jesus (or Issa) ever actually existed, but that his story was a concoction of myths and folk-wisdom from many sources that had passed down, often via word-of-mouth over generations before the year 0 A.D.

http://www.truthbeknown.com/ for more on this.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 09:07:23 (EST)
From: Deputy Dog =)
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Thnaks cq
Message:
I know that crucifixion was a common method of execution in the Roman empire. Despite the fact that it would be a horrible way to die, the image has particular significance for me, as it was the way Jesus of Nazareth was executed. Sorry, but I find the crucifed Mickey Mouse gross.

Checked out the site and the book by Acharya S with all the astrological signs on the cover. The author is described as a Scholar, Visionary and I think they should have also added Flake.

You can believe whatever you want about Christianity, astrology, alien space craft, whatever. I believe that we have all we need to know God in this lifetime.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 13:02:28 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog =)
Subject: Thnaks for what? Ms Acharya S is no flake
Message:
You think this woman is a flake, Dep? Well, you can't tell just by looks, admittedly. How about judging her by her writings? Such as:

'Around the world over the centuries, much has been written about religion, its meaning, its relevance and contribution to humanity. In the West particularly, sizable tomes have been composed speculating upon the nature and historical background of the main character of Western religions, Jesus Christ. Many have tried to dig into the precious few clues as to Jesus's identity and come up with a biographical sketch that either bolsters faith or reveals a more human side of this godman to which we can all relate. Obviously, considering the time and energy spent on them, the subjects of Christianity and its legendary founder are very important to the Western mind and culture.

The Controversy
Despite all of this literature continuously being cranked out and the significance of the issue, in the public at large there is a serious lack of formal and broad education regarding religion and mythology, and most individuals are highly uninformed in this area. Concerning the issue of Christianity, for example, the majority of people are taught in most schools and churches that Jesus Christ was an actual historical figure and that the only controversy regarding him is that some people accept him as the Son of God and the Messiah, while others do not. However, whereas this is the raging debate most evident in this field today, it is not the most important. Shocking as it may seem to the general populace, the most enduring and profound controversy in this subject is whether or not a person named Jesus Christ ever really existed.

Although this debate may not be evident from publications readily found in popular bookstores, when one examines this issue closely, one will find a tremendous volume of literature that demonstrates, logically and intelligently, time and again that Jesus Christ is a mythological character along the same lines as the Greek, Roman, Egyptian, Sumerian, Phoenician, Indian or other godmen, who are all presently accepted as myths rather than historical figures. Delving deeply into this large body of work, one uncovers evidence that the Jesus character is based upon much older myths and heroes from around the globe. One discovers that this story is not, therefore, a historical representation of a Jewish rebel carpenter who had physical incarnation in the Levant 2,000 years ago. In other words, it has been demonstrated continually for centuries that this character, Jesus Christ, was invented and did not depict a real person who was either the 'son of God' or was 'evemeristically' made into a superhuman by enthusiastic followers.'

Full article at http://www.truthbeknown.com/origins.htm
[ Graphic Link ]

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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 00:12:37 (EST)
From: The Father, The Son & The Holy Ghost
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Life of Brian, indeed! (nt)
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 00:23:12 (EST)
From: Deputy Dog =)
Email: None
To: The Father, The Son & The Holy Ghost
Subject: Re: Life of Brian, indeed! (nt)
Message:
Didn't much care for the crucifixion scene at the end, even though they were tied on the crosses, not nailed. And remember, the film was about the life of Brian not Jesus. They went to the wrong manger, remember? Or were you asleep by then?
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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 00:47:32 (EST)
From: Deputy Dog =)
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog =)
Subject: Soory PatC, thought this was from you! [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 04:41:38 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog =)
Subject: Sorry, Dog, that was not me
Message:
But JC was just another crazed cult leader.

Didn't you love the way Jesus told Judas to mind his own business when he was annointing Magdalene with some expensive oil which could have been sold and given to the poor (as Judas suggested?)

Jesus basically told Judas: ''Screw the homeless and the sick and the destitute. The poor will always be with you but I won't.''

Just another god in a bod scam, Dep. There are no masters or saints or living avatars. They all a bunch of nuts and conmen.

''Give away all your money and come follow me. Just give your shekels to Judas over there. He collects the donations for the poor, nudge, nudge, wink, wink. That way I don't have to saw my fingers to the bone being a carpenter but can go with the flow baby and drift around screwing whores. Groovy.''

I was not making fun out of crucifixion. I posted a pic of Rev Jesus doing the boogie and another where you could dress the holy messiah in all sorts of drag. It's called irreverent iconoclasm something which you think you have but lack.

There are no sacred human beings. We all have to crap and are all mortal. Unless of course you believe JC is sitting in heaven in his mortal body. I wonder how many face-lifts he's had so far to try to keep up with all those immortal angels without wrinkles and liver spots?

Religion is a bunch of superstitious baloney. That's why I got suckered by Rev Rawat. He also said religion was crap and that his scam was not a religion. He was right. It was a money-making scam posing as a religion.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 11:02:15 (EST)
From: Pullaverlooza
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Dog Doo
Message:
Pat, you're wasting your precious breath on poochie. After all his righteous indignation about Mickey on the cross he now (below) just says it all boils down to the fact that meditation makes him feel good, smarter, etc. Notice he talks of Jesus of Nazareth in case you get him confused with Jesus of Milwaukee. Let sleeping dogs lie Pat.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 11:24:43 (EST)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Pullaverlooza
Subject: Re: Sorry, Dog, that was not me
Message:
Pat, you're wasting your precious breath on poochie. After all his righteous indignation about Mickey on the cross he now (below) just says it all boils down to the fact that meditation makes him feel good, smarter, etc. What happened to his argument concerning the cross? Notice he talks of Jesus of Nazareth in case you get him confused with Jesus of Milwaukee. Let sleeping dogs lie Pat.


---

I found the image of Mickey Mouse on a cross vulgar, and if you have a problem with that too bad. And it really doesn't have much to do with my experience of meditation does it, unless you use the image of crucifixion as a metaphor for crucifying the false self. There was an argument concerning the cross? I guess we missed it.

I spoke of Jesus of Nazareth (the physical body) to distinguish this entity from Jesus the Christ (the Eternal Spirit), to better make my point about the difference between the two.

Jesus said, 'No man comes to the Father but through me.' And a lot of violence has been done by mixing up the man and the consciousness. As I said before, people can meet with the Christ other than through the form of Jesus.

So I hope that makes sense to you 'Runamock Junior.' And if PatC wants to continue communicating with me please allow him. Again I would ask you to stop reading my posts.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 12:23:44 (EST)
From: Pullaver
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Poochie Poo
Message:
I found the image of Mickey Mouse on a cross vulgar, and if you have a problem with that too bad. And it really doesn't have much to do with my experience of meditation does it, My point entirely, so why did you make your experience of meditation the thrust of your responding post?

I spoke of Jesus of Nazareth (the physical body) to distinguish this entity from Jesus the Christ (the Eternal Spirit), to better make my point about the difference between the two. Well, I'm glad you pointed that out 'cuz who knew?

Jesus said, 'No man comes to the Father but through me.' And a lot of violence has been done by mixing up the man and the consciousness.
Kinda like people mixing up Prem Pal Rawat with Maharaji, eh? As I said before, people can meet with the Christ other than through the form of Jesus.

So I hope that makes sense to you 'Runamock Junior.' And if PatC wants to continue communicating with me please allow him. Again I would ask you to stop reading my posts. I will remind you that this is a public forum and and anyone can expect to be engaged or responded to concerning their beliefs regardless of whom you are speaking with. This ain't no private e-mail discussion. I'll make you a deal: you stop writing drivel and I'll stop responding.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 12:28:02 (EST)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Pullaver
Subject: Pull, why read 'drivel?' [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 09:22:29 (EST)
From: Deputy Dog =)
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: PatC what it all boils down to is...
Message:
when I meditate I feel better. I feel smarter, I feel safer, I feel better, and I feel more like me. It has an intuitive validity. I can't deny my experience. Basically all people want to do is to feel good. When we feel good we are more likely to be an asset on this planet than a liability. C'est tout.

There are a lot of better and easier ways to make money than religion. Ask Bill Gates, Paul McCartney, Arisotle Onassis, Donald Trump.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 13:32:35 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog =)
Subject: Dog , for once I agree with you
Message:
You said: ''When I meditate I feel better. I feel smarter, I feel safer, I feel better, and I feel more like me. It has an intuitive validity. I can't deny my experience. Basically all people want to do is to feel good. When we feel good we are more likely to be an asset on this planet than a liability. C'est tout.''

I could not agree more with you. Taking a little time out for myself everyday to relax the tensions in my mind and body works wonders for me and I've been doing it for over 30 years. But enjoying my breath and smelling the roses and feeling nice ain't god and not everybody does that through meditation. Everyone's got their own way.

You also said: ''There are a lot of better and easier ways to make money than religion. Ask Bill Gates, Paul McCartney, Arisotle Onassis, Donald Trump.''

My god, I even agree with you on this. The difference of course between the guys you mention and Rev Jesus, Rev Krishna, Rev Rawat, Rev Fallwell and the other god-brokers is that the latter are basically a talentless bunch of idiots and the former actually had a real product to sell.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 12:15:12 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog =)
Subject: Hey Dog...
Message:
There are a lot of better and easier ways to make money than religion. Ask Bill Gates, Paul McCartney, Arisotle Onassis, Donald Trump.

I have a suspicion that Gates, McCartney, Trump, (don't know about Onassis) worked quite hard in the early days of their careers and made their money that way.

Religions? Easy Money, whether mainstream or cult.

My opinion, and I stand by it.

Cynthia

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Date: Thurs, Feb 07, 2002 at 00:32:58 (EST)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog =)
Subject: What about the Life of Pullallover? [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 11:08:39 (EST)
From: NET
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Premie Jan Mourer's POEMS
Message:
http://www.home.zonnet.nl/panteltje/jan/tmam.txt

Registered Copyright (c) 1997 Jan Mourer

This file is posted here with permission of the copyright owner. No part
may be used or reproduced in any form or by any means, stored in a database
or retrieval system, linked or reproduced electronically, without prior
written permission of the copyright owner except in the case of brief
quotations embodied in critical articles and reviews.
Making copies of this information for any purpose other than for personal
use is a violation of copyright laws.

The Master and me
By me

How I ever got along I do not know.
Its easy to fool yourself that you are all right.
Or maybe it is not.
Now that I feel you again, now that you uplift me, give me hope again,
maybe its for the money, maybe its for me, maybe its just to be able to
sing your glory:
How amazing is my Saviour, although I cannot say my, should say
You.
Your love is lifting me, yes its lifting me higher and higher and higher.
Think thats from a song, but anyway its true.
Nothing can sing the glory of sat guru, of my Guru Maharaj Ji.
Nothing, none has saved me like You, nothing can do that ever.
In the short life that is given to me as a human, running around on this
planet, experiencing things, happiness, sadness, love, love and happiness
are your gift to me.
Why? why me? I do not know.
Maybe There is no need to know, maybe there is no reason,
maybe it is just what I always wanted, longed for, would trade anything for,
please give me your love, although I am ashamed to say that I really am
unable to give much in return , since even the longing and the clarity to
see that that is what I need, is given.
So is this life.
Many people seek for pleasure in their actions, but it is only to be found
in the power of Your love saving me, I find that time and time again.
O creator of love, remover of darkness, bringer of consciousness and light,
glory to you that you came and took the trouble to notice this human being
and bestow upon this human being the gift of your knowledge.
What a bad pupil I am, I learn so slow, that what I already must have known
since I was born.
Thank you for peace, love and devotion, for compassion, hope and purpose,
for direction and all I have learned from you.
Maybe this is the end of this story, but then You are the master and you go
on and on and on in my life, manifesting as my only true home, true depth,
inner self.
Planets may come comets may come, sun may rise, sun may set, but your love
keeps lifting me above myself and yes, maybe I will never be famous in the
world, but you my master, Guru Maharaj Ji, savior of millions, you will be and
are remembered at least by me right now.
Oh my Lord, I do not know what to say, there is no way I can write your
glory,
but even trying makes me happy, you, thank you.

2.
I know you said 'You and me a are a perfect couple as long as you are not
there'
This is true, Let it be You if I speak, let it be You if I write, let it be
You if I feel.
You who are giving me hope you who are brighting my day, of all the saints
remembered today,
you are the life one, you are the one I can come to hoping crying for love,
your love, that within the darkest moment changes everything into day, makes
everything OK.
The life within me you reveal, your meditation makes me focus on that, when
my mind is scattered all around, you bring me back to the simplicity that
shows me it is only you in this divine moment saving me, giving me hope,
making me attentive to your peace, movement inside of me.
Where does this go, where does this lead, I do not know but lead me, make
me follow, cause its so nice its so beautiful where you lead me, where you
are, its heaven on earth within me, within you.

Now, in this divine moment, you save me, uplift me,
now is the moment I have:
Tomorrow may never come, yesterday is not here anymore, but Now is your
moment now is your love, now is your prophecy, now is the fulfilling of
your destiny, now is your sweet smell, now is when the future is created.
The roads to now are so long the roads from now I do not know, but I am
asking I need to stay with you in this now, as this is the only place where
experience is happening.

Surprise you are, is your help, is the power of your name that brightens
this day.
Electric light may shine around me, your love shines within me and like the
suns that rises, you are an angel that uplifts me into the sky of experience
taking me above the clouds of confusion into the universe of open heart.

3.
Since there is no end, since it continuous and continuous, we play again the
game of joy, the game of uplifting, surprising enough, in spite of what I do,
in spite of the food I eat, in spite of the time of day, you take me deeper
and deeper.
This may never be read, it may be read by everyone or only a few,
the experience of being saved, of that power coming in my heart again and
again is one that cannot be described, but describing it is at least an
attempt to, at least an effort or maybe rather a hope, a prayer to go
further, to go higher, to experience more the growing of your power in my
heart.
On and on it goes, like the tides of the ocean, like the stream of a river,
on and on it goes and takes me on its journey, to a destiny somewhere in
paradise, where I trust it takes me, a trust coming from the feeling that
this is right, that this is the way to go, that this is the ship I want to
be on, that this is the plane to board and fly away, like a bird in the
sky, carried by to power of the wind, of nature, to a destiny only God
knows, where He is waiting and watching, every moment, every day for that
bird to come and fly home to him, where I go, no ending on this continuous
journey across the ocean of love above the illusions of life into the reality
of your love.
And bliss.

4.
Speechless, rereading, where are we going, what am I doing, so beautiful
what you are giving me, this experience, this fulfillment, this nice time
bestowed upon me, by your mercy, for me to enjoy, for me to bathe in, for me
to rejoice, for me to rise above myself, to come to rest in the fulfilling
of my highest, even undreamed hopes of being a human in love with your beauty,
thank you for showing for showing yourself to me, of all people, you giver of
life you selector from millions, billions, that it was me that received,
that was awakened to your glory, oh thank you for your kindness, your time,
it took so long to show me, it is so nice to see, love you for letting me
play in your wonderful universe of understanding where reality is inside
and peace prevails among me.

5.
Shorter and shorter, but never quite running out of words in describing the
glory of the gift you gave me are giving me, bringing me inside, deeper in
the heart of me, of you.
Grateful am I who receiving your gift enjoy uplift and smile as time as a
witness my heart as a homecoming the day comes to an end in this
wonderful moment where I can sing your glory pressing keys on this
machine for no other purpose as to please myself and you in me so to more
feel the power of your name, in an illusion perhaps, that I am doing
something, although I know that all doing in this is yours, since you are
the power, that I have to surrender to to let go to the beauty, that must
have been intended by the creators of humans to experience so they can be
happy so I can love and live and experience the true essence the true heart
that is constantly given expanding smiling in true bliss, singing the glory of
your name of the greatness of my Guru Maharaj Ji, of his divine gift to me.
More than words, more than sentences that can be read in this moment is the
experience of being saved of getting closer to the heart without ending like
a river, stream going on and on until total happiness make me smile and
thank you for your grace you are giving me you guidance and shelter that
learned me to recognize what is real my heart and chose you among the only
choice you, in the heart.

6.
Scriptures have been written , and I have seen, no more or no less is this
a report of the glory revealed by the master in my heart.
What can be said than all the scriptures cannot compare to the uplifting
experience of the name that you have shown me, is showing me itself the
power you are, you are giving me in my heart.
Love is the reward, maybe the carrier of that expanding consciousness, that
takes me closer and closer to reality, to the now.
Only can I pray : please take me closer, let me go deeper, cause every
moment in this life, of this human, life that is short as a flash, experience
this moment so for me it happens, you in my heart.
Am I asking should I be writing or meditating but cannot be silent want to
witness the beauty shown by my master, given to many in the heart.
No am not tired, it seems tired is not conscious, stay with the carrier with
the Savior, praise the creator who gave me this moment filled with your
bliss.

7.
A day has passed did not want to loose you to anything, can only rely on
only hope for you to carry me to show me how to proceed with this life to
come closer to you.
All of the sudden, light is within me. it is You shining again and again
through the clouds coming into my life.
Now it is all right, getting better, enjoying the peace of the moment in this
bliss.
Winter and summer, time is proceeding coming home to my heart.
Always this motion, the most beautiful motion, silently moving within to
within me, the joy in my heart.
Bringer of bliss of happiness, of hope of light of fulfillment, thank you
for this moment where you and I meet, here in the heart.
Peace and peace, no words can describe the thing thats happening that you
are giving, on and on like the stars are shining here in the heart.
I pray please come closer, take charge and concur, take my heart.
Lifting me higher, giving me hope and fulfillment, strengthen my trust so
nice it is to be carried by you on this wave thats coming to me in the
heart.
The only thing I care for, the only value, is you who are saving my heart.
Yes I am grateful, it is unbelievable that someone like you came, to save
the people, millions and many who I am one of begging you for more of your
peace in my heart.
Oh creator thank you for sending my Guru Maharaj Ji so I can love you in my
heart.
Bliss.

8.
Respect and peace, openness and peace, deeper and deeper do you carry me,
to the road inwards, high above the mountains of life, above this human
being into the sun thats always shining above the clouds of illusion, to
warm up the peace bestowed upon me by your name in my heart.
Can only be grateful for the love you are giving, need it so much, just to
remember, on and on coming home to myself in this exquisite moment of
happiness where you are creating that love in my heart.
How can it be that love and respect are so easily given, without even
verbally asking just showered upon me, it is a grace a miracle happening in
my happy heart.

9.
Dancing around and around higher and higher in my heart singing to you for
you love your love keeps lifting me, keeps right on lifting me higher and
higher and higher.
Happy nice to be able to sing your glory at the end of this day, the suns is
down, but the sun in my heart shines with a different light, warmer and
higher and brighter on and on like the universes song.
Fulfillment you give so nice to be able to sing your glory, the sound of the
key presses makes me happy.
Deeper it goes, into the self, where all is that is, where day is where you are
where I am.
Smiling experiencing the depth, the going deeper each breath, given by the
creator, for this life, to remember the power to remember home, you.
Brighten my day, my life my moment this wonderful moment that is going
deeper and love me you do.
Stronger than expected, fierce and respectful peaceful and open taking me
home.
In this moment given, yours is the moment, breathing for love given by you.
Oh my lord deeper is you deeper is your name than what I can dream of, than
what man can know.
No words for this I know, it is stronger, taken me deeper closer to you.
O world know my master, he who can give you depth in your lives and closer
to yourself and respect.
Opening the heart to the love of the Lord is my master for me and can be for
you.
So great is that power, that darkness disappears and light shines all
around in the eye of the heart in me for you.

10.
Never ending moving inwards towards the heart is my masters name for me.
Again and again more than I imagine doing it better is he taken me to peace
in my heart respect for the heart and You.

11.
Today, trying to be, trying to find a way to serve, yes again singing your
glory, yet again singing your praise, this brightening moment of love and
joy in this moment we unite in peace and harmony respect and higher and
deeper in the heart.
Its a underlying flow towards completeness always moving within the heart
within me, going on in spite of feelings and longings desires and carrying
me higher and deeper in the heart.
Peace and glory love and hope You are given, my teacher in the heart.

12.
Here in my corner where I hide, praying, hoping you come will keep on coming
in me.
Thank you for being thankful, for lifting me, for letting me go deeper, for
peace, and consciousness, for love and hope and bliss.
Food tastes so nice in your name, peace is such a nice feeling that what more
could I wish than more.
Always the same, time is the changing factor, really I do not know about
these things other than You.
Guru Maharaj Ji, lifter of me, lover of peace of bliss, great are You who
helps humans come to their hearts.
Glad I am writing respectful is He who is saving me now.
Hi hi along it goes like a train, a volcanic eruption, the lava is melting
and streaming along like the love from your heart.
There is a further there is a future perhaps, but for sure is the bliss in
the moment thats now.
Deeper than deep than the ocean is the heart revealed by the power that you
are showing to men and me.
Oh my creator, please let me be conscious, let me be attentive for the glory
you are revealing within this human, within my heart.

13.
Rain is falling, I am here remembering You, in me, in my heart, there is
this deeper uplifting peace coming over me, writing this, all alone in this
place higher to You.
Oh my Lord how nice it is to be able to turn inside ANYTIME of the day or
night thanks to your meditation, your name.
Attention focused on the only reality, the only depth, truth in my heart.
Your love keeps showing me on and on on this path in this path in the self in
the heart the unfolding destiny of bliss and fulfillment and light.

14.
Quiet and peaceful, light and depth, homecoming name that carries me across
the waves of the ocean of life within life itself.
Need not be dreaming as the most beautiful dream, the reality of the
Saviour is here in the heart.
You must be the suns power, although not visible from here, visible in the
heart, happiness given, hope revived, ongoing uplifting love from within.
Can I ever describe the master who walks the earth, giving knowledge to
millions, gave it to me, so I need not suffer, can be happy within my own
heart.
Glory Creator who send Guru Maharaj Ji, to solve the riddle, to show an
example, for each human, especially me to live in my heart.

15.
Warmer, deeper. late at night, again we meet inside.
Grateful, like a beautiful flower is the love you are revealing in my heart.
Happiness. growing greater stronger I hope for more respect in this moment
smiling for your gift to me in my heart.
Deeper it goes, deeper it is , where I find me and You in this moment of
bliss in You.
Peace let it carry let it grow overtake me and create the love I so much
need to be peacefully happy in this moment a present from You.
Brighter and deeper, happy and glad, fulfilled and at peace
am I filled by the creator, that power that name who is revealing the
dwelling place in the heart.
Higher and higher, never an ending always further is the love you are given
to me in my life, in my heart.
Shine a bright light shining brightly expanding around and around within me
coming home to myself is You.
Ongoing motion of respect and joy of love and devotion of anything you can
wish for is the secret opening in my heart.
Yes it is glory yes it is beautifully, nothing can thank my master for showing
me that this is what I want thats this is my me.

16.
On and on no end to the glory of the name revealing itself in the heart.
Please remember that only that power is saving is blissing me in my heart.
For all those who want it there is my master, beg him for knowledge for
this in your heart.
Great is the glory great is the Master who reveals the true secret essence
in peace in the heart.

17.
Oh my lord, builder of bridges, creator of joy of love and peace in the
heart.
Here words run short, even spell checkers, computers will fail to find the
expression to sing the glory of being saved by that power in this moment
opening the heart.

18.
Today the day, there can be no betrayal, there can be no taking chances,
must be true at any price to the love within, never ever regretted for even
a second the actions I took to be with you to be only with you in this life
that I have.
Now is so peaceful, it is so valuable, its is all that I have.

19.
Higher and higher lifted you are there in me, thank you for showing me again
and again the peace depth and joy and quietness in me.
No words can describe the experience given, happening, coming home in the heart.
Brighter and happier breath for breath, respectful are Yon power saving me
in the heart.
Deeper and fulfilled, deeper and earnest, real and uplifting is name coming
home in my heart.

20.
Thank you for letting me experience You again today, been so many places,
gone so far seen so many people, but only You saving me has made every
moment of this day worth while. And serving You.
Creator of smiles, creator of Glory thank you for this moment of peace in
my heart.
Happiness, uplifting love beauty You Guru Maharaj Ji, most wonderful being,
thank you for You, for helping me find me and You in me, for showing me the
road to the depth of the paradise in my heart.
Devotion, thank You for deeper and hope opening heart.
Peace bliss.

21.
The world is so strong, let me be more attentive to your peace, deeper
experience within lifting and fulfilling me higher.
Maybe this is the best I can do, study this world, what could I invent and
even then would it let me be with you more?
In this short time given maybe the best thing to do is just be happy, like
the butterfly in its time given as a flying creature, enjoy every moment
that creator remembers me remembering You.
Open and free, there is the road out of this limitations that I have as a
human into towards the hope and respect for the glory of life.
Help me find and not divert again and again from this path this mainstream,
this only stream, towards the light in my given time.
Part of all perhaps, but conscious I am for the love created by You in my
heart.

22.
You are there deeper in the heart, like a snail going into its house it
carries, going into the heart of You of me.
High in respect and beauty is He who follows this stream into the heart.
Bliss and happiness are the surrounding joy is the dwelling place in the
heart of the heart.
Guru Maharaj Ji, savior of people, thank you for giving me this chance again
and again to be with You to be happy in my life within my breath my heart.
Heal the wounds inflicted by me and this world, so I may become one,
united with me within my heart.
Thank You for being here for being someone I can give to, devote to, with
all my heart.
Since there are no limits, since there is no border, great is the glory of
Guru Maharaj Ji, who saving me and many others travels the earth giving
knowledge of their heart to all these people, who can experience the glory
and love of being saved and peace within.

23.
What do I know of the future, it is not happening, You are happening now in
me in my heart.
Drinking from the fountain, from the source, great is the love created by
that power, by the name in my heart.
Grateful I must say, gratefulness given, thank to the name the glory of
completeness in the heart.
Love for that creator of space and enlightenment in the opening heart.
Higher and higher, praise the Master, uplifter of millions, great is your
glory, thank you for you in my heart.
Hope is given respect is bestowed upon this human for no reason it seems
other then You in my heart.
Bliss and glory rejoice for that creator is saving and saving me in my heart.

24.
Father of day, Father of night, Father who changes the darkness to light
(stolen from Bob Dylan), thank You for giving me thankfulness.
Oh my Lord, peace creator, (but Dylan got it from You?) higher You take me
higher I go is your depth peace fulfillment happiness in me great amazement,
peace and content quietness and smile then You.
Humble I stand, great are You in this moment of bliss of hope and happiness
in this opening heart.
Deeper it goes to the source to the heart to You by You within You is You.
No its no riddle, there is no separation the power that carries and opens
the heart is the fulfillment is the creator, was shown by my Master to be
all that I want.

25.
Imagine a palace with rooms expanding on your slightest wish, if ever
hopeless, comfort and relief is immediately created, imagine this and greater
is the name in the heart.
Imagine a light that lights up everything, like the sun rising, but greater
then this is the deeper brightening light in the heart.
Wish for a feeling so nice and its given the wish it seems given as well as
its fulfillment, so is the way of the power the name within the happy
heart.
Cannot describe the power the greatness the highness, but its nice trying
to write the glory of the uplifting peaceful heart.
Hope respect opening are You the heart of this human of this creature, who
in this moment amazingly enjoys love in the heart.
Thank You for showing me thank You for coming Guru Maharaj Ji, thank you for
all thank God for your presence, since none seems to know or to care other
then You you are showing the pearl the saintly beauty of the knowledge of the
soul in my heart.

26.
Saved again, thank you, I am so weak, but You are so strong,
great is your name giving me relief in this moment.
No game I play, no thing I do, its only your name that takes me deeper further,
in peace and harmony and happiness and joy and respect.
High in this place below where I love and hope for more love, praying
please save me again, always, uplift and peace me (?) but for sure I would
appreciate if you do and you do and you make me appreciate You and life and
the day and this day and You.
On and on the motion of motions the tide of tides, of consciousness expanding
into the deepening heart of you.
Words are mere words, love is a feeling a fulfillment a contentness in the
heart, created by your power, in the heart where peace is found at the deeper
parts of the love and You.

27.
Tired, brighter peace deeper powerful love You are showering on me respect
hope love for that power that is constantly saving bringing me home inwards
to me in this moment so full of bliss and joy.

28.
Deeper majestic, who am I to even try respect You give me, higher You take
me, out of the darkness into the peaceful grateful moving within
brightening heart.
Hope is created, peace is created, depth is created by the name of the Lord,
shown by the Master the lover of the soul.
Oh my Guru Maharaj Ji, thank You for this moment and all the others, I
remember Your glory and have peace in my heart.
As longing desire for food, so is the longing for the deepening heart build
in the body of every creature like me, just to need, want to experience
that respectful loving peace in the depth of the heart.
This wonderful process this uplifting experience this fulfilling
homecoming depth love in the heart.
Glory Creator bliss hope and depth are You in my heart.

29.
Closer to me, higher peaceful it takes me, relief, thank God for the name
that carries me on and on towards the inner destination in the heart of me.
Stronger hope revived, bowing down to that glorious power to You.
Love is created deeper it goes into the heart where peace silently shows.
Coming into reality, like the past was an illusion, coming into this
moment like new here looking at all things around me, that where here
before but less noticed, now here opening I am.

30.
Fulfillment love is given by that power by that expanding consciousness,
by love opening the heart.
Important to focus, to realize that this is the source of happiness, that
this is where fulfillment comes from, from within this power, shown by that
Master, that no outer thing can match or even give this experience, the
experience itself is the fulfillment the love in the heart.
To be more specific: the ice melting the sun shining in the heart is the
feeling generated by Your name the divine power, peace in the heart.
Remember the force, the name always as then there is happiness and joy
generated within the body within the heart.
For every creature for every person, there is this opportunity to go to my
Master and ask for His knowledge, practice His meditation and understand the
importance the beauty the need for the name in the heart.
Love for this Master my Guru Maharaj Ji, who has shown me and millions, the
essence of happiness, the true glory the power the name in the heart.

31.
Silent respectful love is growing in the heart, the masters work, the name
revealed, flying home to the source in the depth of the soul where sun shines
its uplifting light and fulfillment flowers.
The garden of Eden deeper within the heart of men, like a pearl in an
oyster, waiting to be discovered by the one who dives deep in the ocean of
love.
Nothing can be done expect praying for more for that depth, where I go.
Praise to the Master, the revealer of the secret the hidden name in the
heart.
Respectful night is falling, but in the life of the ones with knowledge
where the name plays its divine game is peace and glory and love for the
Master who is shining a brighter light in their lives then the sun in the
summer of the earth.
Breathing for more like a prayer unspoken am I going deeper in the
experience of that love of the ever expanding awareness of truth of the
reality within.
Seen from within is the world so much brighter, uplifting name thank You
for saving me in this lovely moment of bliss.

32.
Saved again, deeper home, in me love beyond confusion, blissful awakening
to the reality of the Now. Coming into the presence of me, of You where all
is happening respect love devotion uplifting in the thirsty longing heart.
Peace greatness and devotion, ongoing stream of glory deeper higher fulfilling
strong power home in the heart.
Rest and peace high and fulfilled brighter peace satisfaction in the happy
heart.
Longing for more love and experience always moving inwards is the name for
me.
Peace and harmony., love and happiness is given by the name the power the
force taking me home in my heart.
Great is the revealer, thank You Guru Maharaj Ji for letting me see, showing
me what I need and can choose.
Please let me always remember that glory so satisfaction can always be
here in my heart.
Happiness is opening heart.

33.
Effortless, coming to myself, being taken by that stream that You revealed
in my heart.
To a happier place, a happiness that is different from the cartoons and
plays in this world, a happiness,
that comes from within me, from that power, opening up space in me to see,
love and be satisfied with me, with my existence.
How great it is how nice it is to be uplifted and relax in that power that
so gently heals all pain all sorrow into a light so beautiful so
fulfilling that no more can I wish then to experience this, this joy in the
heart.

34.
If I was a bird, one day I would find I could fly.
Being a human, one day I found I could fly into the depth of the heart of
me.
You showed me where to look how to look, you showed me that I have a choice
to be with that love that power within the heart.
Happy am I who floating on wings of love into the home of the heart is lifted
above the world above the clouds to fly in the sun warming my soul and
experience depth.
Hope is given bowing to that power happy me knowing that name, You.
Peace is given, fortunate me knowing You knowing the name of God.

35.
In this struggle for existence love is given to this human, love that makes
live livable, hope that makes life surprisingly fulfilling and peaceful,
thanks to that power creator of awareness in the heart.
Love, more greater is where it takes me on its journey to the depth of the
heart.
Serious thing it is to realize that this is the happy road to the inner to
me.
Love and respect for Guru Maharaj Ji, love that goes higher and melts
the mind and quiets the heart.
Oh high sunshine within me, oh lovely glorious creator, how pleasant it is
to be carried by you in this wonderful peace in my heart.
More and more deeper peace is created is creating a resting place for the
heart.
Love and fulfillment, love and hope, given by that power that opens the
heart.
Awaken destiny here in this moment a gift from the heavens who send the
Master who revealed the secret in my heart.
Uplifting glory please let me be asking carry me with you to within where I
belong exists peace in my heart.

36.
Amazed, You are saving me again, again again.
Deeper it goes, peace is in the heart, So great is Your love thank for
letting me experience it again and again, please let all the people know,
please let them know, they need it so much, devotion to You, oh Guru Maharaj
Ji will for sure change that darkness into a deepening light.
Stronger love it grows higher it takes me more love.
Smile, content warm beauty light peace wonder hope home into the heart.
Fulfilled carried within. Everything done with You is good.
Amazed, melting the ice are You, so powerful moving towards within always
active always creating awareness bringing me into the presence peace
creator.
Satisfaction creator, love creator, thank You for revealing Yourself to me
bright light You are lover of my soul.
Happy I am to be within You within Your ship Your power carrying me to the
open heart.

37.
Surprise deeper into me, deeper into me normal, bliss, happy.

38.
Deeper happy singing Your glory again thank you for this day, and every day
with You it is so glorious, so nice to feel You to be saved by You, to love
You.
No more wishes can I have expect to go deeper and always be with You, lover
oh lover of me of my heart.
Happiness is a deeper going into the heart, into that creating power that
creates the space for me to see, feel, hear, smell and love.
Peace home open hearing You, the Master within the Master following Him.
Amazed, great new world of bliss revealed in me, making everything all right,
everything so bright, praying for more receiving more then I knew or could
even imagine there is.
Here You are again, here I type words, sentences all there is is praises to
You, my Guru Maharaj Ji, giver of faith, giver of hope of such a beautiful
life, moment after moment of this short life I have filled with Your love,
devotion, oh creator of happy people, great is Your glory Guru Maharaj Ji,
great is Your gift.

39.
Precious time, remembering You, nothing can match the depth of You, the
relief created by You the peace revealed by You in the heart.
Hungry for more more love more experience more happiness more bliss, given
it is,
thank You.

40.
Uplifter, my heart sings a song for You,
A song of love and harmony.
A song to say respect is so generously given by You.
A song to love You, love You, love You more.
Oh my lord, please take me bliss me, love me, I NEED Your love,
please speed Your love, to me.
Wonderful lover, great are You,
giving me all this peace.

41.
Deeper within always deeper, my Lord takes me home to me.
Higher then the stars, above me my Lord takes me to me.
Happier then imaginable, his name takes me to peace.
Brighter then the sun His love takes me to paradise now.
Wider then the ocean is His heart in me.
Like climbing a stair, walking up in the sky of experience and devotion.
Each breath carrying me higher deeper to fulfillment.
Waking up from the sleep to reality now and here.
Sunshine within, love shine within, respect shine within.
You are giving, creating the ultimate satisfaction me.

42.
Peace deep higher peace bliss happiness deeper rising peace taste smell
brighter light patience fulfillment deeper peace home.

43.
The world around me may change, satisfaction is within me, peace, deeper
going within, deeper in me, higher, peaceful, deeper, bowing down to that
power, Your name, awakening to the glory to happiness within me, bliss.
Great are You Guru Maharaj Ji, who gave me and many this wonderful secret to
focus on what is real in a human, this essence of bliss.
Higher, no waiting on and on words are written describing the glory, the
love in the heart.
Love You Creator, love given to me by You in my heart.
Coming into this moment popping up here, in this new world, where everything
is brighter more present.
Opening heart, jewel of God, source of joy love is your home.
Thank You Creator, for letting me know, for showing me the name within.
Thank You for understanding the importance of this power, the highest a
human can understand and know.
Praise to the Master, savior off millions, praise to the Master who let me
know.
Deeper again on and on brighter again, peace in my heart.
Smiling.

44.
Coming together with me, You in me.
Respectful love flowing within my heart great is Your glory, great is Your
grace, lifting me out of this limitations that I have into the heaven of light
where I can love You.
Peace more and more intense, real homecoming You are higher then me.
Taking me there, to the hight of You where I see, feel peace am amazed and
fulfilled by the name You revealed.
Satisfaction so much again and again every moment turning my attention to
that power.
Blissful it is to be carried by You.

45.
Happiness coming to myself within me.
Love coming to myself in my heart.
Respect coming to myself in the heart of me.
Light coming to myself in You.
Higher satisfaction in the heart.
More there is like a river flowing carrying water to the ocean, so are You
carrying love to the heart.
Spring of glory devotion, please carry me with You.
Fulfilled prayer are you happiness in my heart and bliss.

46.
Grabbing this keyboard because I think I could write, but need to be close
to You in my heart.
Peace, the little focus I have is supplemented by Your power
to become a precious uplifting grateful moment of love.
Here in my hideaway, world passing by, listening to the masters voice in my
heart.
Powerful silence, peace within.
I need Your love, please shower it on me feed it in me, let it grow greater
respect no fear of death.
Standing by Your love more love.
Higher You take me, Your name takes me above the clouds into the bright sun
of the new day within.

47.
Higher it goes more is given, stronger it gets, grateful praises to You.
Happiness, bliss, created in my heart, thank You.
Amazed, happiness so easily given, thank You my Lord for You.

Time goes by, its like a bomb, one day life will end and time will go on.
But precious is the time spend remembering experiencing love in the heart.
It will never come back, but is only now, where the heart opens and
everything is all right.
Bad weather, storms, rain, in the heart where there is love and devotion for
You, the sun always shines and the experiences rain upon me.
Better then rain of gold coins (which may hit you hard) is this rain of
beautiful depth grace coming to me.

Like a rose flowering, opening coming into bloom, so is the name unfolding
the wings of the butterfly of the heart so it opens toward the shine of Your
love and beauty my Lord.
Deeper love You create deeper happiness You create, in You I find me, thank
You Guru Maharaj Ji.

48.
Deeper within, transcending across borders of unknown.
Closer to You it goes, bliss and happiness implied.
Higher love and deeper higher respect is given.
Coming home each breath I am going to You.
Taken to You in the heart.
Fulfilled, filled with happiness and joy.
Glad to be.
Majestic is the experience high above me looking at me, going into me.
Peace.
Bliss.

49.
Great is Your depth higher I go into the heart.
Great is Your love, Your gratefulness, deeper I go into the heart.
Great is Your hope, respectful I go into the heart.
Waking me up to now in the heart the depth of me.
Devotion so lovely happiness given so easily.
More like a continuing series, more into the heart of me.
Lover of my soul praise to You Guru Maharaj Ji.
Deeper You take me going further into the heart.
Bliss.

50.
Deeper, how deep is Your love? I do not know,
there is no end I can see to peace to coming into the presence of this
existence.
Great is Your love, deeper is Your love.
Respect You give, deeper peace happiness, bliss.
More.

51.
Bliss.
Higher OK.

52.
Trying can I feel You?
Do I feel You?
How strong is that faith I have?
Peace, lighter.
Respect opening heart, more presence? yes brighter deeper it goes.
Peace faith connecting left to right deeper uncertainty changed to bliss.
Deeper, brighter? deeper go by experience fresh air sleep gone,
light confusion changing into respect brighter, letting go to the heart.
Happier, peace.
More into the presence, closer to You it goes.
Yes You are taking me, like a saw Your name cuts trough the mind and opens up
the heart.
More into the presence You take me, thank You, nice.
Peace coming to me, peace in my heart, more peace.
Bliss.

53.
Should I stay or should I go? love is right here.
Respect is in the heart.
Deeper it goes, brighter it gets.
Higher and more fulfilled it becomes.
Peace hope love You give.
Taking me above me, peace fulfilled, happy.
Bliss

By the grace of God I have seen You again, Maharaj Ji, feeling You again.
rejoice, love.

Peace love You give music you create, oh Lord, oh source of love,
oh God, Saviour of me, go on, go on!

Oh, by the way, try http://www.maharaji.org
for more about the one who reveals the self.

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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 17:20:47 (EST)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: NET
Subject: These are copyrighted?
Message:
Like putting a padlock on a dog-turd.
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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 10:59:51 (EST)
From: What?
Email: None
To: All
Subject: I found this-CACa
Message:
CACa

http://gurumaharajji.com/let_it_be.htm

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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 10:53:21 (EST)
From: Question
Email: None
To: All
Subject: What is this?
Message:
guru maharaji

http://gurumaharajji.com/index.htm

I never saw this site before.

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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 11:27:57 (EST)
From: Livia
Email: None
To: Question
Subject: Re: What is this?
Message:
I do not get this at all. It appears at first to be a pro-Maharaji site, but as you scroll down, it then appears to be an ex-premie thing! After all, the first bit satisfies all the criteria for a cult - no doubt about it. The spelling - Maharajji with 2 j's makes me think it's an anti site, but with premies being generally less erudite than exes IMHO, the reverse could easily be the case!

Any answers?

With love, Livia

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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 12:38:52 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Livia
Subject: There's a VERY strange 'Jim' post
Message:
and there's also a working link back to THIS forum!

Odd kind of spoof, if that's what it is.

http://gurumaharajji.com/believe.htm
[ click here for post attributed to Jim ]

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Date: Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 23:17:12 (EST)
From: Deputy Dog =)
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Funny, K de-hypnotized me! [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 15:32:45 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Not that strange
Message:
That was just me doing a bit of the guru voodoo siren song shtick.

Obviously an ex site but by whom?

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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 07:48:46 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: All
Subject: RICHARD THIS IS TOO GOOD TO PASS UP!
Message:
<'b>Could you imagine Mata Ji in some lime-green lycra stretch pants? She would have looked like a walking avocado or a green mango.'

Oh Richard, you gotta get out your tools and do this one! This is just too funny.
Take some old pictures of MataJI and make paper dolls out of them, with a complete wardrobe of nauseating fashions that women are wearing today and have worn since 1971.
think of the range!
hotpants. power suits. dayglo running gear. punk. lycra leggings and Miami glitz! rollerblades! skateboards!
Roseanne Barr miniskirts! sweatsuits!
polyester pantsuits!
Bag Lady.

oh. god, get on it right away! this one needs doing so badly....it is TIME, friends. it is time to BUST a concept.

it is time to slaughter a Sacred Cow.
we have been timid and deferential too long. she was just another grating mother-in-law, when you take away all the window dressing.
that's ALL she ever was. she's fair game. they're only CLOTHES.

paper dolls we can cut out and dress,

or just put up the images of the outfits on her, on a webpage.

oh god, I can't can't wait.

housemum has the Guru Puja Special of 73. that oughta have enough useable pictures to work from.

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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 12:25:15 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Sorry janet, I don't do cruel
Message:
You've painted an amazing vision (pun intended) of Mata Ji does South Beach. Thanks for your confidence in my Photoshop skills but that kind of ridicule aint my cuppa chai. The facts speak loud enough for themselves without embellishment. Case in point follows.

Speaking of Mata Ji, I'm recalling the time on Key Biscayne at the first US Holi in 1974. I was taking photos for Divine Times so I had access to behind the scenes. As I was reloading my camera, a travel trailer door banged open and out flew GMJ. He literally ran past me and, as I was in his path, he said 'Excuse me, Mata Ji is chasing me.' He really sounded scared and the door banged open again and there stood Mata Ji with her entire face covered in scarlet Holi powder. GMJ must have shoved her face in it. She stood there holding a bowl of colored powder shreiking 'Maharaji, come here!' She wanted to get even but he yelled back 'No, Mata ji, no!' A bit of Holy Family lila not seen by many, I'm sure.

Earlier on that trip, I had heard about M's liasons with Marolyn so I put 2 and 2 together and realized the lahdu must have hit the fan. It was the big'ning of the family split.

Richard the touched but not retouched

(The 2 post below with " * " as sender were duplicates of my post deleted by me.)

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Date: Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 04:38:50 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: what's cruel?? it's fashion, dollink
Message:
Richard....
could letting Mataji wear the fun and liberating fashions that she was forbidden to don while having to maintain her role as the Holy Mother, be cruel?

could it be any crueler than seeing all the women who DO wear those styles with that kind of body inside them?

And I speak here of myself at nearly 50. I now have the selfsame silhouette as she had then, and , yes, I know what cruelty is, believe me.

Ahhh, too bad. I didn't think of it as cruel. I thought of it more as popping a bubble, freeing our myths about her, and helping ourselves realize that she was just a woman, and I thought we could give ourselves and her some long desired freedom..

you know--she completely missed the era of abandoning the strict indian dress code for the freedom of western fashion. Why not let her have some of the Women's Liberation freedom she neer got to experience?

Like I said--it need not be cruel. I trust your artistic instincts! Pretty please? Just one or two examples? To help us all break out of the prison of the myth?

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Date: Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 09:01:00 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Janet, why don't you do it?
Message:
Janet, if you really want to do it, there must be some way you could borrow computer equipment, or rent time on one like at a computer store like Staples.

I think it's kind of a waste of time, but go for it!

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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 04:26:37 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: All
Subject: OT_for mike finch-truth in jest
Message:

---
-

A stunningly simple Solution to keeping your windows users' upgrades current effortlessly

it's so obvious, I can't believe they don't actually put it into action.
Maybe you can, in your position, in your little corner of the world.
Gotta begin someplace....
[ A truth hidden in jest. ]

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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 08:51:28 (EST)
From: Mike Finch
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Re: OT_for mike finch-truth in jest
Message:
Thanks Janet.

Amusing, and I'll pass the link on to various work colleagues.

Take care

-- Mike

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 23:18:15 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: All
Subject: IRS
Message:
What happens if Mr. Rawat, Maharaji, the Speaker, actually got a conscience and apologized for the past thirty years' worth of gleefully accepting roughly a billion dollars under false pretenses? What would happen to Elan Vital's tax free status? What would happen to his tax rate if he admitted contributions destined for Elan Vital really supported him and his family?

The IRS wouldn't possibly want back taxes on all this would they? Elan Vital wouldn't have their church status cover blown, would they?

That's why he will never, ever apologize to anyone, Abi included, because he will never fork over his own fortune to the IRS or lose his personal cash cow, commonly known as Elan Vital.

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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 07:20:34 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: Important IRS info here
Message:
I've just discovered a document giving info to non-profit organisations, charities, churches etc (click here for extract).

It says quite clearly that even tax-exempt churches have to provide, to anyone who requests it, a copy of Form 1023.

EV's form would make interesting reading, because included in the info that the charity/church are required to give, we find the following:

Assets:

1 Cash
2 Accounts receivable, net
3 Inventories
4 Bonds and notes receivable (attach schedule)
5 Corporate stocks (attach schedule)
6 Mortgage loans (attach schedule)
7 Other investments (attach schedule)
8 Depreciable and depletable assets (attach schedule)
9 Land
10 Other assets (attach schedule)
11 Total assets (add lines 1 through 10)

Liabilities:

12 Accounts payable
13 Contributions, gifts, grants, etc., payable
14 Mortgages and notes payable (attach schedule)
15 Other liabilities (attach schedule)
16 Total liabilities (add lines 12 through 15)

Fund Balances or Net Assets:

17 Total fund balances or net assets
18 Total liabilities and fund balances or net assets (add line 16 and line 17)

(a blank copy of the full Form 1023 can be downloaded from the IRS main website).

The would-be 'church' also has to answer these questions: click here

How they ever got the IRS to classify them as a 'church' is beyond me!

I wonder what the penalty for tax-fraud is, in the US these days?

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Date: Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 10:10:54 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Careful, Folks...
Message:
Before you flood the place with requests, please read the last question at the bottom of this post. IT would be best, IMO, for only one person do make this request. Ah, there are always loopholes.

re. Complying with requests for information

What type of organization does this apply to?

It applies to every organization that has received an exempt determination from the IRS under any section of 501(c) or 501(d).

This includes churches that have established their exempt status. Even though they do not have to file Form 990 and thus do not have to make these forms available for inspection, they must still make the Form 1023 available for inspection, and make copies available if requested. It also applies to non-exempt private foundations and nonexempt charitable trusts described in Section 4947(a) that are subject to Section 6033 information reporting requirements.

Although the April, 1999 regulations putting these requirements into effect specifically exclude private foundations, the final regulations for private foundations were issued in January of 2000, effective March 13. In addition, the requirement that 3 years of 990-PF's must be furnished begins with the 2000 filing.

Where can someone come to inspect/get copies of the documents?

What if we have more than one office?

What if we do not have a regular office?

The documents must be made available for inspection at the organization's principal office, and (if the organization has more than one office) any regional or district offices, during regular business hours. A regional or district office is any office that has either full or part-time paid employees, whose aggregate number of weekly working hours is normally at least 120 (e.g. three full time employees or their part-time equivalents). However a site is not a regional ordistrict office if the only services provided are to further the exempt purposes of the organization (such as a day care center, clinic, etc.) and the site does not serve as an office for management staff, other than those involved solely in managing the exempt function activities at the site.

An organization with regional or district offices has 30 days from the date its informational return is filed with the IRS to provide copies to the regional or district offices.

The organization may have a representative in the room during the inspection. However, the person inspecting must be allowed to take notes freely, and if he/she has brought along a copier, to copy the document.

If the organization does not have a permanent office, or has limited office hours, it may comply with the public inspection requirements by making the documents available for inspection at a reasonable location, within a reasonable time period after receiving the request (within 2 weeks), and at a reasonable time of day. It may mail
copies of the requested documents in lieu of allowing an inspection, but may not charge the requester unless he/she consents to pay the charge.

How much can we charge if they want copies?

The organization can charge a reasonable fee, which the regulations define as no more than the fee charged by the IRS for providing copies. This currently is $1.00 for the first page, and $.15 for each additional page. In addition, it may charge the actual postage costs incurred in providing the copies.

The organization may require the individual to pay the fee before providing the copies. If payment is required before the copies are provided and the organization receives a written request, it must advise them of the amount due within seven (7) days from the date of receipt of the initial request. The organization must also respond to any questions from potential requesters concerning the fees for copying and postage of each document, with and without attachments, so that payment may be included with the request.

If prepayment is not required, consent from the requester must be obtained before the copies are provided if the charge for copying and postage will exceed $20.00.

The organization must accept any payment made by cash or money order; it may accept payment in another form. If the request is made in writing, an option to pay either by personal check or by credit card (one or the other) must be provided.

If the requester is advised as to what the fee is and they do not pay the fee within 30 days, or if they pay by check and the check does not clear, you may disregard the request.

Note: If the individual brings a copier to the inspection, he/she must be allowed to make copies directly, at no charge.

How soon do we need to provide copies of the requested documents?

Requests Made In Person. If the request is made in person at the principal, regional or district offices during regular business hours, copies of the documents should be provided on the day the request is made.

If there are unusual circumstances where fulfilling the request will place an unreasonable burden on the organization, copies must be provided no later than the next business day after the unusual circumstances cease to exist, or the fifth business day after the request, whichever occurs first. Unusual circumstances would include such occurrences as receipt of requests that exceed the organization's daily capacity to make copies, requests received shortly before the end of the business day that involve substantial copying, or requests received on a day that the managerial staff capable of fulfilling the request are involved in a special assignment.

A local agent may be retained to process requests made in person for copies of the documents. However, the agentmust be located within reasonable proximity of the office, the name, address and telephone number must be immediately provided to the requester, and the agent must timely furnish the copies.

Requests Made In Writing. An organization receiving a written request for a copy of its application or annual report(s) shall mail each copy within 30 days of receiving the request. However, if payment is required in advance, it must mail the copy within 30 days from the date it receives payment, as long as it has notified the requestor, within 7 days from the date it received the initial request, of its prepayment policy and the amount due.

If the requester consents, the document may be furnished by electronic mail; it will be considered to be furnished on the date the document is successfully transmitted.

A local agent may be retained to process written requests for copies. However, the agent is bound by the terms and conditions (including deadlines) that apply to the organization itself.

Exactly what part of the Exemption Application can someone inspect/ obtain copies?

The application for tax exemption must include any prescribed form (e.g. Form 1023 or Form 1024), all documents and statements filed as a part of the application or as part of any follow-up correspondence in support of the application, and any letters or documents issued by the IRS in regard to the application, including additional questions about the application.

If there is no prescribed form (for example, with an application for a group exemption), the application includes the application letter, copy of the articles of incorporation, bylaws, financial statements, statements describing the organization, its purpose and its activities, and statements showing the sources of the organization's income and the disposition thereof, and any other documents required by the IRS or submitted in support of the application.

Note that if an application is still pending with the IRS and an exempt status is not yet determined, nothing need be furnished. In addition, if there is a part of the application that the IRS is required to withhold from public inspection, the organization need not make that part of the application available.

We don't know where our Exemption Application is. What do we do?

If the application had been filed before July 15, 1987, and the organization did not have a copy of the application on July 15, 1987, it does not have to be made available.

However, if the application was filed on or after July 15, 1987, or if the organization had a copy available on that date, you must find the application.

What Informational Returns have to be provided?

What must be provided as part of the Return?

An exact copy, as filed with the IRS, of any federal informational return (Forms 990, 990-EZ, 990-PF, 990-BL, and (Form 1065) must be made available, including all schedules, attachments and supporting documents. This includes any amended return.

Except for private foundations, you may delete the name and address of any contributor (make sure they are on a separate schedule, easily redacted, so that the IRS does not inadvertently release this information). You also do not have to make available form 990-T (unrelated business taxable income), Schedule A of Form 990-BL, Schedule K-1 of Form 1065, Form 1120-POL, or 990-PF.

Each form must be made available for a period of three (3) years from the later of the date the return is required to be filed (plus extensions), or the date it is actually filed. Any amended return also must be made available for three (3) years from the date it is filed with the IRS.

What if the requester only wants part of the document?

If the requester clearly identifies the requested part or schedule, then that part must be furnished. The organization may not charge the requester for the entire Form 990 if only Schedule A is requested.

What if I think there is a harassment campaign against my organization?

If the IRS district director for the key district in which your organization's principal office is located determines that your organization is the subject of a harassment campaign (requests are part of an effort to disrupt the operations of your organization, rather than to collect information), and that compliance with these requests are not in the public interest, you are not required to provide copies. Facts supporting the finding of a harassment campaign would include a sudden increase in the number of requests, an extraordinary number of requests made through form letters or similarly worded correspondence, requests that contain language hostile to the organization, evidence that the organization has already provided the requested documents, and the like. If you believe that you may be the target of a harassment campaign, you should contact our office so we can assist you in determining what steps you may want to take, which may include applying for a determination that you are the subject of a harassment campaign, and suspending compliance.

It would be appropriate to keep a log of all requests, whether in person or written, so that if a harassment campaign is instituted against your organization, you will have evidence of the type and number of requests normally being received, and documentation of the increased burden.

You may disregard any request for copies of all or part of any document beyond two received within a 30 day period, or four received within a one year period, from the same individual or the same address, without a determination of harassment from the district director.

http://www.dreamwater.net/planetqwerty/info/non_prof.htm
[ Guidelines for Complying to Requests ]

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Date: Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 14:17:44 (EST)
From: Francesca :~)
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: RIGHT ON, CYNTHIA
Message:
Read her post, please. That is why I don't post this type of information on the Forum.

Francesca

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Date: Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 12:44:04 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Good point there, Cynthia
Message:
Good point there, Cynthia

For that self-same reason I've also, in a post below, given the link to the IRS website where anyone can download the document request form and return it (snail mail of course) to the IRS. If anyone's interested in following this up, the non-profit is ELAN VITAL, INC. and Forms 990 and 1023 are the two to ask for (they make a small charge for photocopying expenses)

No matter how many people ask for copies, I don't think the IRS can refuse. The info would be for a valid purpose - investigation into where the money we donated to Rawat/EV went, and we're certainly not out to 'harrass' the IRS!

Also, the info you link to is just an extract - the full document, for those that need it, can be found at http://www.runquist.com/article_IRSTrouble.htm

Best wishes,

Chris

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Date: Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 14:19:15 (EST)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: AND CHRIS is right also
Message:
The IRS is a public agency, and these are public records. Anyone can make a request to the IRS, and pay for the copies.

Francesca

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Date: Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 15:23:46 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: would like to make one thing very clear
Message:
I would like to make ONE thing very clear:

When I said 'we're certainly not out to harrass the IRS' (and I used that word without thinking - sorry folks, for 'we' read 'I'm') - that should NOT be taken as implying that anyone is out to harras EV either.

For all I know NOBODY has yet asked Elan Vital for these relevant public documents.

(thinks - if they had, wouldn't they have posted the results here?)

Which leads to the inevitable question - IN THE FOUR (or more?) YEARS THAT EPO AND ITS ASSOCIATED FORUMS HAVE EXISTED, HAS ANYONE asked Elan Vital for these documents?

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Date: Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 13:51:25 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: To be more specific...
Message:
Hi cq,

What I meant is not to flood Elan Vital with multiple requests because in my post above, it clearly states they can refuse examination of the reports based on the loophole I posted.

I don't think the IRS cares how many request IT gets.

Just wanted to clarify the point.

Best,
Cynthia

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Date: Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 14:51:17 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: and right you were to, too :) (nt)
Message:
and right you were to, too. :) (nt)
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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 11:28:25 (EST)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Q11 is a good one [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 08:59:02 (EST)
From: The Maharaji of Malibu
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: answers some tough ones-thanks CQ
Message:
Page 11 Form 1023 (Rev. 9-98)

Schedule A. Churches

1

Provide a brief history of the development of the organization, including the reasons for its formation.It was called DLM but now it's EV and soon it'll change again. It was formed by me pappy who slipped on a bar of soap and died before he could tell me why.

2

Does the organization have a written creed or statement of faith? Yes No-yes

If “Yes,” attach a copy. 'OH my Guru Maharaji, I dedicate my life to you...'

3

Does the organization require prospective members to renounce other

religious beliefs or their membership in other churches or religious orders

to become members? No Yes--No, err yes, it depends on who's asking and at what point they ask it

4

Does the organization have a formal code of doctrine and discipline for

its members? Yes No (see answer to # 3)

If “Yes,” describe.

5

Describe the form of worship and attach a schedule of worship services. Foot kissing ceremonies known as darshan where grattitude is expre$$ed

6

Are the services open to the public? No Yes

If “Yes,” describe how the organization publicizes its services and explain the criteria for admittance. see # 3

7

Explain how the organization attracts new members.very secret public programs

8

(a)

How many active members are currently enrolled in the church?
Don't know due to www.ex-premie.org
(b)

What is the average attendance at the worship services? that depends on what you mean by attendance

9

In addition to worship services, what other religious services (such as baptisms, weddings, funerals, etc.) does the organization conduct?worship of me pappy so I can talk about how I revere my Maharaji so my members can draw the implication about me-I SLICK, I SLICK

10

Does the organization have a school for the religious instruction of the

young? Yes No Yes, in the distant past but no longer due to child molestation issues

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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 14:38:08 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: The Maharaji of Malibu
Subject: LoL! Now answer this, M of M
Message:
The Great and Powerful Maharaji of Malibu has summoned his minions and complelled them, with great cunning and deviousness of heart, to find a way around the machinations of the dark mind of the Inquisitor Pecuniary, the slighty forgetful and inept (though in no way negligent ;)) IRS.

This 'Service' has asked the minions of M of M (known collectively as the E of V) to bear in mind the following:

QUOTE:

'The information submitted with Schedule A will be a
determining factor in granting the “church” status
requested by your organization. In completing the
schedule, consider the following points:

1. The organization’s activities in furtherance of its
beliefs must be exclusively religious, and

2. An organization will not qualify for exemption if it
has a substantial nonexempt purpose of serving the
private interests of its founder or the founder’s family.'

ENDQUOTE

Now tell, me Maharaji of Malibu, did you and your minions answer the IRS' questions honestly and truthfully?

If so, how come you claim that neither Knowledge nor Elan Vital is a religion?

Methinks the general public would think you be diddlin' the taxman. Whether the taxman will think it to be fraud ... well, ... we'll see ....

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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 08:46:35 (EST)
From: Occasional Poster
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Re: Important IRS info here
Message:
cq

Very interesting. In the various questions that are asked to gain exempt (church) status I see that the IRS asks applicants to consider:

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---
-
The information submitted with Schedule A will be a
determining factor in granting the “church” status
requested by your organization. In completing the
schedule, consider the following points:

1. The organization’s activities in furtherance of its
beliefs must be exclusively religious, and

2. An organization will not qualify for exemption if it
has a substantial nonexempt purpose of serving the
private interests of its founder or the founder’s family.

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---
-

Point 1. I was told by M that EV/DLM was NOT a religious organization. Things must have changed whilst I was not looking!

Point 2. Do we really have to comment on this?

Had a look at the various questions that require answers for gaining exempt status. The following stuck out and I would be very amused as to what actual answers DLM/EV gave!

5
Describe the form of worship and attach a schedule of worship services.

7
Explain how the organization attracts new members.

12
Describe the organization’s religious hierarchy or ecclesiastical government.

17
Will any funds or property of the organization be used by any officer, director,employee, minister, or pastor for his or her personal needs or convenience?

ho hum

Op

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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 14:14:08 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Occasional Poster
Subject: Ask and it shall be given unto thee ...
Message:
seek, and ye shall find. (thinks ... tell it to the IRS)

Anyway, pessimism aside, just click the link above for an Adobe Acrobat copy of Form 4506A (Rev. October 2001) 'Request for Public Inspection or Copy of Exempt or Political Organization IRS Form'

Then just follow the instructions on p2 (it's only a 2-page document) and ...

... oh yes, the document to ask for is Form 1023, for Elan Vital. You could also try asking for Form 990, even though (according to their last letter to me) the IRS claim to be unable to locate it.

And then - let's hear it for PUBLIC ACCOUNTABILITY! (after all, it's our own tax money that subsides these non-profits, isn't it?).

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f4506a.pdf - 22.0KB
[ Click here for IRS form 4506A ]

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Date: Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 04:47:32 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: i can't see PDF- can you
Message:
perhaps download it and cut copy and paste it here in regualr posting format? or as an html. GIF, or jpg format?
WEBTV can't deal with PDF format. we can, however see any webpage done in html code.
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Date: Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 12:53:11 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Re: i can't see PDF- can you
Message:
there's always one isn't there? ;)

As it happens, Janet, Adobe Acrobat files that are full of tables and fancy layout (as the IRS one is) are just about impossible to cut and paste. I've tried it, and the tables are ignored and the text merely floods onto the page with virtually no formatting whatsoever. Scanning the pages could be done, but I don't have access to a scanner at present.

Having said that, if anyone out there knows a way of translating pdf into .doc, .txt, or .html, I'd love to know.

So what options are there for you?

1. Get a local friend with a PC and printer to access the link for you and print it out.
2. Phone the IRS and ask to be sent a copy of Form 4506A, or
3. Just write a letter to EV requesting the forms (but bear in mind Cynthia's proviso/warning in her post above).

The next thing to do?

You guessed it.

Wait.

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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 21:25:25 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Good show! Can Canadians participate
Message:
I'd love to request that their books be opened.

Could people send letters informing the IRS that the donations were solicited illegally as the recipient is a cult leader who had people 'brainwashed' at time?

deb who is just wondering WHY this hasn't been done

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Date: Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 04:51:22 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: of course--let's do it
Message:
and the more requests they gat, from the more places, the more the curiosity is piqued.
this is the Bush Administration. They want money anywhere they can take it from. There's a war on, doncha kno.
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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 07:21:58 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: le's sue for the info
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 08:00:11 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Sue? Apparently you just have to ask for it (nt)
Message:
Sue? Apparently you just have to ask for it (nt)
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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 04:28:49 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: not voluntarily, you mean. [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 21:58:32 (EST)
From: Jennifer
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Perspective from Normaltown
Message:
I'm hanging out with two of my best friends around here who were also children in the 70's. They have recently discovered Krishnamurti and they gave me one of his books to read. So I'm reading it and I start to notice very subtle likenesses to things I've heard before (and some not so subtle similarities.)

Next, I'm trying to explain to my friends why I don't care for some of the points Krishnamurti is making. I'm going point by point and trying to explain which things I disagree with and why.

They are starting to get annoyed and don't understand why I don't think this 'new' message is the most revolutionary thing I have ever heard. One friend tells me that it's 'amazing that this guy wrote these things down in the 40's.' I tell him that the Indian guru culture has been saying similar things for thousands of years. 'How do you know?' he asks.

I tell them the things I've heard before and again them challenge me to tell them how I know this. Suddenly I feel like a CIA agent who has lost his cover.

Relunctantly, after much hemming and hawing, I take out my copy of 'Lord of The Universe' on VHS and hand it over along with my copy of Who is Guru Maharaji(and Katie, yes, I even loaned them Be Here Now, just to drive the point home.) They look at me like I'm crazy and I feel like the guy who is busted for having illegal weapons in his home.

Never loaned anyone anything that came back so quickly. They are completely freaked out that I had ever been involved in anything 'like this'. You would think I had the plague. It's so obvious to people with normal childhoods that cult involvement is something that is not right on a fundamental level.

One of my friends says that Maharaji 'is a special kind of evil' to use basic human desires and seeming truths for his hook. This is the same guy calling Krishnamurti 'revolutionary'. He still can see the wrongness in Maharaji.

I don't come here often anymore. I don't think about Maharaji or premies much anymore. I live in the present which includes a successful business, good health and children.

It's just that every so often that ugly head of the past rises up to remind me of the weirdness that was. In those times, I feel the need to come here and remember, even breifly, that all of this really did happen.

It's good to know that at least here, I don't have to loan out any reading material or get strange looks. You lived the weirdness, too.

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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 13:28:35 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Jennifer
Subject: Hi Jennifer
Message:
How are you?

I think being reminded of the weirdness from time to time is a good thing. If nothing else, it can make you appreciate freedom from the weirdness more.

It was so great meeting you God, over a year ago was it? BTW, Kevin and I took a great trip up to the Northwest part of your state and had a great time, although it was a bit cold, and we were reminded that we were in the congressional districts of two different, very unsavory and insane, congressmen. :)

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 23:24:04 (EST)
From: Marianne
Email: MarianneDB@aol.com
To: Jennifer
Subject: Hi there Jennifer
Message:
Hi there Jennifer. How are you? For some reason, you popped into my mind last night. You are THAT Jennifer, aren't you? Hope all is well with you and your family. Give my best to your sister too.

Much love, Marianne

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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 09:11:52 (EST)
From: Jennifer
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Re: Hi there Jennifer
Message:
Yes, I think I am THAT Jennifer. Har! har!
Good to hear from you.
Love,
Jennifer
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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 22:27:57 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Jennifer
Subject: Re: Perspective from Normaltown
Message:
Well, I'm glad you popped in. I thoroughly enjoyed reading your post.

The best thing about Krishnamurthi is that he is deceased. The worst is that he wrote ''At the Feet of the Master'' which was plagiarized for our cult's version.

''....waiting to catch his orders in the very midst of the fight.''

Holy Hinduism! Holy gurujism! Holy baloney!

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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 09:16:25 (EST)
From: Jennifer
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Re: Perspective from Normaltown
Message:
PatC

I'm laughing at your last line. Love it :)

Thank you very much for this post! It sounds like At The Feet Of The Master is something my friends need to read.

They are really into the fact that K denounced the guru trip and that he said that people need to find their own path and not follow one religion. (I can dig that, but I don't think you have to read Krishnamurti or anyone else to come to that conclusion for yourself.)

I'll pass the name of that book along to them.

Thanks again,
Jennifer

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 21:08:37 (EST)
From: Julia
Email: None
To: All
Subject: I'm new here, haters
Message:
Was just surfing around and accidentally came upon EPO and this forum. I must say, when I was a premie, I fully understood that Arti, Krishna costumes/crowns,intensely heavy and abusive satsang such as the Kissimees 'two faced hypocrites'blurb,ashrams,exhortations to totally surrender to Maharaji and a whole bunch of other stuff was purely tongue in cheek larking around. So sad you guys laid it on Maharji as a serious trip.You should be ashamed of yourself.

As I say, I'm new here (well apart from 16 other aliases I've used from time to time)and I just can't stomach the anger, bitterness and negativity. I've therefore decided to move on and forget all about Maharji but not to indulge in such life defeating antics as reading and posting on a public forum.
I'd recommend everyone to stop reading and posting too.

With much love and good wishes

Julie.

otherwise known as Dermot:)

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 21:16:22 (EST)
From: Jennifer
Email: None
To: Julia
Subject: Re: I'm new here, haters
Message:
If you have used 16 aliases here, you've spent a lot of time in 'life defeating antics such as reading and posting on a public forum.'

Who are you trying to convince when you say that Maharaji's Lord of the Universe act was tongue and cheek larking around? Everyone here who was around in the 70's knows better. Honestly--how dishonest and revisionist can you get? You should be ashamed of yourself.

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 21:11:43 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Julia
Subject: Is this really you, Dermot?
Message:
Was just surfing around and accidentally came upon EPO and this forum. I must say, when I was a premie, I fully understood that Arti, Krishna costumes/crowns,Arti,intensely heavy and abusive satsang such as the Kissimee 'two faced hypocrites'blurb,ashrams,exhortations to totally surrender to Maharaji and a whole bunch of other stuff was purelytongue in cheek larking around. So sad you guys laid it on Maharji as a serious trip.You should be ashamed of yourself.

As I say, I'm new here (well apart from 16 other aliases I've used from time to time)and I just can't stomach the anger, bitterness and negativity. I've therefore decided to move on and forget all about Maharji but not to indulge in such life defeating antics as reading and posting on a public forum.
I'd recommend everyone to stop reading and posting too.

With much love and good wishes

Julie.

otherwise known as Dermot:)


---

What's going on?

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 21:47:49 (EST)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Is this really you, Dermot?
Message:
Duhh, someone as clever and quick witted as your good self can on occasions be so slow on the uptake:)

Just a spoof of some posts below.....Jude?

Now you've gone and spoilt it!!

Dermot

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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 14:35:33 (EST)
From: Andrea Eriksonn
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: DARN!
Message:
I thought I found a soul-mate in this LOTU forsaken place, someone with That Feeling, That Understanding, about That Place. Someone who appreciates You-Know-Who, giving You-Know-What.

Now it turns out to be just that naughty ex-student ''Dermot'' person, spoofing a sincere premie. Such a CRUEL hoax! You ex-students are so ungrateful, always filtering out the good, when you could be filtering out the bad instead, and be in That Experience, That Bliss, That Joy, be One With The Dancing Heart, Yadda Yadda Yadda, instead.

Andrea Eriksonn,
Who is very grateful to have The Master to warn her about the very real dangers of brain-farts. NO ONE ELSE on earth does that! Not even that boring old Jesus person did that, there is NOTHING in the bible about brain-farts. That just goes to show how special and unique Maharaji really is. You should be grateful, but you're ALL naughty instead. :|

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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 17:03:40 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Andrea Eriksonn
Subject: Go ahead, Andrea, spank me! LOL [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 21:30:55 (EST)
From: Jilly Munchbutt
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: My parents, Bob and Dot Munchbutt
Message:
Hi Julia,

So nice to read your sensible words here instead of the whining all the time. My mom and dad have been premies since 1971 and they have always understood what you said so I can fully agree with you when you say:

''I fully understood that Arti, Krishna costumes/crowns, Arti, intensely heavy and abusive satsang such as the Kissimee 'two faced hypocrites' blurb, ashrams, exhortations to totally surrender to Maharaji and a whole bunch of other stuff was purely tongue in cheek larking around....'' etc

Thanks for your positivity,

Jilly Munchbutt the junior church-lady

You may regret posting a spoof as Julia, Dermot. I for one will probably not let you forget.;)

Pat:C)

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 21:50:39 (EST)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Jilly Munchbutt
Subject: Glad someone got it Pat:) [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 21:51:47 (EST)
From: Jilly
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: Thanks, Julia :C) [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 20:17:17 (EST)
From: EBay Alert
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Who is Guru Maharaj ji?
Message:
There are two of these books posted on Ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1509596445

and

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1509261352

One seller describes it thusly: Move over Krishnamurti! Here came boy wonder Maharaj Ji, founder of Divine Light Mission, master to thousands of premies. He's still around, too, now in his forties and perhaps a little less flamboyant; he calls himself Maharaji, his organization 'Elan Vital.' This was his authorized biography, which now serves as a walk down memory lane for aficionadoes of Seventies counterculture spirituality, and an essential document for your Guru Archives.

The other asks: What ever happened to This Guru??? Do you know...If so I would find it interesting to know!!!

One is selling for .99 the other for 4.50. Currently there are no bidders for either. A total of 9 and 11 people have viewed the auctions. One was me, one a friend and 7-9 were probably just some poor lost soul, or some premies doing their duty (same thing).

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Date: Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 09:03:43 (EST)
From: Ebay Alert
Email: None
To: EBay Alert
Subject: There is now......
Message:
24 and 21 hits on these sites. I figure a few regular ex's checked it out, and probably a handful of Lurkers. Great place to market your guru paraphanalia.
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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 12:31:08 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: EBay Alert
Subject: I bought a copy on E-Bay
Message:
I think it came with three other books and I got the lot for $4. I considered it a historical artifact that I needed for my collection.
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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 17:37:35 (EST)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: The book
Message:
That book will be an interesting contrast with the Passages video. Are any of the same people in both -- like Tim Gallwey?

Marianne

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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 04:34:43 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: EBay Alert
Subject: well hell-answer the guy!
Message:
send him the links to EPO! the more who know, the merrier.
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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 21:11:25 (EST)
From: Jennifer
Email: None
To: EBay Alert
Subject: Well, I still have my old copy
Message:
Well, I still have my old copy, so no need to spring for .99 cents. 4.50 is definately a rip off for that old thing.

Hey, everyone! How have you all been? I haven't been around much. I sold my business and now I'm franchising other businesses. Keeps me busy.

Marianne, if you are reading this, my sister recently shut down one of the largest courthouses in the USA over jury selection in her death penalty case. The judges were tampering with the jury pool, so she made a motion to dismiss all of the juries. The courthouse hasn't operated in weeks. You may have heard about it!

Speaking of Krishnamurti, a good friend of mine is really into him now. Everyone assures me that I don't need to worry, since Krishnamurti denounced his guru status. Any thoughts on this?

Best wishes,
Jennifer

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 22:04:58 (EST)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Jennifer
Subject: Krishnamurti
Message:
famously said 'drop all your gurus like hot potatos' but in effect carried on being a guru under a different guise.

He did declare his version of 'Divine light Mission' (the Order of the Star?) defunct whilst giving a discourse at a festival gathering in Holland in front of thousands of his followers who looked upon him as the 'Saviour'.

I quite liked his school ethos though used by his Education Trust or whatever.Reading him is like trying to pin down a zen koan really. His best book in my opinion was his collection of talks to children where he stopped trying to be so elusive and intellectual.

Lived right into his 90's. Vegetarian all his life, 2 hrs hatha yoga per day along with regular long walks.Some say, behinfd the scenes he wa vainer than he let on and was meticulous about hiding his baldness by combing his hair right across his bald head:)

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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 09:22:41 (EST)
From: Jennifer
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: thanks for the Krishnamurti info
Message:
Dermot,

Thanks for that information which I will pass along. Sorry I mis-read you as Julie below under the 'haters' thread. Haven't been here for awhile, so wouldn't have access to any private jokes. (I am extremely gullible in any case, hence my being here in the first place...)

Jennifer

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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 12:51:54 (EST)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Jennifer
Subject: Ha...good one Jennifer
Message:
"I am extremely gullible in any case, hence my being here in the first place"

Aren't (weren't) we all....

Cheers

Dermot

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 20:10:25 (EST)
From: EBay
Email: None
To: All
Subject:
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 12:50:17 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: kevjo@mindspring.com
To: All
Subject: Passages Spin -- comments, please
Message:
Following is a verbatim transcript of a section of the video Passages -- A Master's Journey, except I summarized Glen Whittaker's long-winded and absurd story about people being turned off by saris.

Anyhow, I wanted to get comments on what people think about this. First, any comments on using 'saris' (especially referring to THE LATE 1970s) as an example of what Maharaji had to work so hard to eliminate as Indian traditions?

Second, referring especially to Tim Gallwey's comments, does anyone know even ONE person, just ONE, who left Maharaji because they were so attached to the ashrams and other "Indian traditions," and hence they preferred them to Maharaji and when he (supposedly) got rid of them they left for that reason? And does anyone know of even ONE person, who left Maharaji because he or she preferred the 'Maharaji religion' (ashrams and saris, I guess), which is what the video says happened?

Does anyone besides me find Gallwey's condescending lecture on this subject offensive to people who no longer follow Maharaji?

Here is the transcript:

Narrator: By the end of the 1970s, Maharaji had successfully introduced knowledge into a number of countries. But he was becoming increasingly aware of the need to separate knowledge from its Indian cultural packaging. Too many things that are simply a part of Indian culture were considered, incorrectly, by Westerners to be an integral part of what Maharaji was offering.

Sandy Collier: We brought a lot of Indian attachments with us, you know, that since knowledge came from India, that somehow we had to adapt some of the Indian things, like our Western culture wasn't good enough.

Bobby Hendry: The mahatmas came to give knowledge and it was a way of spreading knowledge. The ashrams then, I found, were a way to discipline your life to practice knowledge. Unfortunately, we held on to the Indianness (sic) of it instead of the real practice of knowledge and incorporating that properly into our lives. [Did Bobby Hendry ever actually live in an ashram, BTW?]

Glen Whittaker: [Glen tells the story of going to speak before the a young conservatives club (invited by his cousin), and that people were interested, but when they showed up to hear more, they were put off by 'the white sari brigade."

Linda Pascotto: I was never very attracted to all the Indian things. So, when I came to hear him speak and I saw these women wearing saris, I thought oh, I don't want to wear a sari. Do I have to do that to listen to him and be in his company and receive knowledge? Because I didn't want to do that.

Ron Geaves: From day one he resisted attempts to create a religion around him. It seems to me that throughout his life whenever we have attempted to build any box around him, he's always broken out of it and when he does there are those who prefer to be in the box.

Narrator: For some people the changes that needed to take place were confronting. They had become attached to a lifestyle they associated with Maharaji and knowledge that was based on Indian tradition.

Linda Pascotto: I had friends who lived in the ashram who stopped practicing when the ashrams closed, they felt betrayed, abandoned... [Hard edit, Linda is cut off mid-sentence]

Tim Gallwey: He [Maharaji] undertook the challenge to get rid of the fluff, the conceptions that might have attracted people, that in fact some people loved more than they loved the real thing and that left people with a choice. Do I love my quote 'religion,' my 'Maharaji religion,' or do I love my actual recognition, my actual understanding of what I am seeing and experiencing. And some people said, 'no, I'll take my religion, thank you very much (laughing), and some said this is real enough that I'm gonna stick with it.

________________________

Comments, please. Anybody know anyone, ANYONE, for which that's true? Ever heard of anyone who was so "attached" to a lifestyle that was based on "Indian tradition" that they left because M didn't want them to live it anymore? Does anyone else who was a premie for more than 15 minutes find this idea insane? I mean, I suppose it's technically possible that there was such a person, but I sure never heard of it.

Also, note that Linda Pascotto's comment is meant to imply that people felt betrayed BECAUSE they loved the ashrams and wanted to stay in one, and stopped practicing because M closed them and they were hurt because they loved them so much. Absurd?

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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 07:20:41 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: OK, I confess. I did.
Message:
I was plenty dismayed when I got the news that 'all that Indian Stuff' was passé, right after I got out of the hosital in 1982.
Let me recap how I remember learning it all....
Ok. It starts in 1967 with the Beatles becoming students of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. The Sgt. Pepper's album, with the cosmic new understandings being told in music, worldwide. Totally kidnapped me away from my materialistic upbringing and pushed me toward a completely different idea of what life was about.
1970, I'm out of highschool and on college campus and I take my first LSD at 17. Have a major realization of how psychologically bound I had been to my familys expectations for me, and I forsake those overnight. AM stunned to find out the enormity of the world's peril from ecological damage, in the seminar I am there to attend.
Drop out and fail the course in overwhelm.
Return home in tie dye and barefoot bellbottoms and spend a year in despair, battling my father at every turn over what is right and what is wrong.
Go back to college a year later and try again, make effortless A's at political science and comparitive Religion courses, meet Benjamin Black Elk, get alientated from going to class at all.
Make Gay Radical friends. Women's Movement friends.
Get dared into beginning TM by a gay male pal who pays my way. TM drives a widening wedge between my classes and my waning care about making grades when the world is in such bad shape.
Drop out of college before i can flunk out during finals. Don't go home.
Sink into deep despond about the world and my place in it. 'What do I want to grow up to be' is a question nearly meaningless in the face of what I have come to understand.
Have unexplainable experiences in TM that no one will help me with. Get disgusted and leave it, hoping to get better answers with someone else.
Seen posters of maharaji around, but avoided the people cause they seemed too happy-happy- happy, and I'm profoundly depressed because I know the world is gonna crash if something doesn't stop it the right way.
Life gets bleak. Family can't understand what's wrong with me. Ultimatum comes down: get happy or move out.

Meet premies in NYC. SEE first up close photo of Maharaji. Lock eyes with photo and know he Knows whatever it is I'm desperate to find.
Don't go home. Decide to stay until I find out what this thing is.
Indian trip? I never asked for that. I had been with TM and left, disgusted. Guru? the word was funny. overused. I just wanted a Viable Answer to what I knew we were facing, if we didn't stop the juggernaut of global destruction in time.

It was in joining the premies in my wait for Knowledge that I started to absorb all this following Indian custom and assertion.

PRanam and surrender before the throne.
take off your shoes inside the ashram.
don't taste your food while cooking.
meditate before you eat.
seek holy company.
listen to satsang, not chit chat.
disattach yourself from the things the world pursues for illusory fulfillment.
stop eating meat, fish or eggs.
start cleansing and fasting and purifying your body--it's your temple. God lives within you. Make it a fit place for God to abide with you.

I started reading Back To Eden and parting ways with western medical thought. it was the holy thing to do. Let God heal you. Western doctors just manipulate the body like it was a 'thing'. They don't understand the life force. Only God heals you.

I aped these customs uncertainly, going alone, learning how to do them, being told at every point that there was a apiritual reason why to do it, and not what I had done for 20 years in my family and culture of origin.
I had to admit, I liked the strange new habits.
I liked the silence of the ashram. I liked the difference in holy company. I really didn't see a thing 'out there' in the world that I was missing. The world at that time was a truly depressing, dirty place. Watergate. Gerald Ford. Gas Lines.
Recession. Unemployment. Disco. Yuck.
The non-premies I met in the course of a day were so unbelievably dull, small, working for such dead end goals, wasting their irreplaceable hours on such pointless labors.
collating papers. making and losing money. status games. fashion show offs. sex showoffs. Bars. strip clubs. office buildings. factories. drinking. imaginary gains, imaginary achievements, all going nowhere.
I was so relieved to have the world of Maharaji to wrap around myself, to protect me from all of that meaninglessness, all that darkness that was pushing the planet toward premature ruination.

My conscience was clear. I was doing every last thing I could possibly do to be part of the solution, not the problem.
You never heard premies screaming at each other in arguments, like you would hear worldly people doing, out in the streets. You never saw a premie punch another one,physically hurt another one, beat one, cut one, slap one, hit one, kick one, make another one bleed.
No. Premies were always so self controlled and conscientious about all that they did.
I was so thankful that there was service to do. It was a far better way to elude the grip of unwanted attention than 'sorry, thursday night is the night I wash my hair', or,'I can't, I have to go see my mother, she's sick', etc. I didn't have to lie, I could be in-your-face-blazing, and say ' Bye now.I'm gonna go do service' and leave the creep gaping in the dust, staring after me, without a comeback.
It truly was a Shelter and a refuge, and damned right, I was grateful to my soul to know I had it.

I listened to maharaji's satsang and it made acute sense, that if the world was in trouble, in danger of destroying itself, that again and again the Creater had to come, Himself, to save it from doing so to itself.
That's exactly what I had deduced, myself, during the hopelessly vast spectre my professors had made us to understand, in my political science and ecological crisis seminar. I had seen the face of the enemy, and it was Us, and we didn't have the knowledge, the will or the intent to stop ourselves. No one human being could do it. No well meaning Group of human beings could do it.
I wanted to save the world. And i had come to the realization that I couldn't.

so yeah, damned right, I listened , and joined. And I did everything I could conceive of, and everything I was told, to alter/altar my life to live the way I was schooled was the Holy way to be.

India had the long Spiritual Leg. They had made a science of self purification, of mastering the inner abilities, of renouncing all the things that were driving the First World to destruction. No one in the western culture was doing that. No religion I had ever studied or heard of had ever bothered to make what you ate a significant act for the good of the planet.
catholics didnt eat meat on fridays. big whoop. the other 6 days you could kill all the cows you wanted to. real dedicated, that. the jews separated meat from milk. did that make a stone's worth of difference to the ecology? muslims didn't touch pork. that ain't gonna stave off global warming!!
but here were premies, reading Diet for a small planet, and tutoring each other in herbal medicine and massage and recycling and eating and growing organically. That was clearly what the entire world had to do, to turn back from the abyss.
The rituals made sense. The peculiarly premie practices were good for the earth!-- and for me, myself. Furniture looked ridicuous anymore. Couches, chairs, TV, radio, movies, it all looked so wasteful and overblown, when all that money and labor should have been going into saving the planet. We didn't hurt or use animals. That was the way it should be.
The 'Maharaji Religion ' was the right way to be. Damned straight, I wanted it! Damned straight, I wanted the whole world to get it, too. It was clearly what we had to all do to head off destroying the world with our rapacious appetites for pointless things and pastimes.

When DUO came out, I felt ill. It was all wrong. It was a step back towards all that was wrong with the world. The one day I tried to go to the DUO offices in Denver and do some typing as Service, I got heartsick and went home and blacked out. That night, my mother had a stroke and went into a coma from which she never awoke. 14 days later. she fianlly gave up the ghost and died, brain damaged beyond all help.
I went into a black nosedive, beond all reach. For the 'year of spacing out'--1976--I was a colorless, lost entity. I looked around me and despaired at all the premies, sexing, drinking, smoking, working, marrying, dating, meat eating--and ached to die and leave the world. The only thing that brought me out of it was the resurgence in Devotion that came back in 1977. It was a terrible year, and so was every year after that, but I wasn't craving endlessly to die, any more.
I had my Maharaji Religion to identify myself by.

And then in 1978, I got pregnant by a premie brother.
The whole world changed overnight.
PRemies suddenly weren't my refuge and my friends anymore. I was shocked at how selfish and uncaring they were. Doors slammed in my face. I was stunningly alone. No one cared.
Though I clung to trying to be counted in the group, they didn't show any sign of wantng to include me for anything.
It got worse and worse. My immediate priorities and theirs were moving farther and farther apart. I was torn at every new decision. Go to a festival or get an address? Travel or stay put? Stay in or sit it out? Pay the rent, or airline tickets to Miami?

I wanted to just settle out and get ready for the baby. But no, Maharaji's world wanted me to chase, chase chase. Spend, spend spend.
I started to get angry. I joined this thing because I was distinctly told that this was the only was to keep this world from going to destroy itself. Now you tell me that the renewal of life, a baby on its way to being born here, isn't important?
Wait a minute. That's wrong.
This was supposed to be about understanding the preciousness of life.
God doesn't NEED your worship! It's YOU, who need to value the gift of LIFE. THAT'S why he needs to manifest and remind you! It isn't about HIM needing something! He doesn't need anything. YOU need something.
AND NO, PREM PAL, IT ISNT TO BE REMINDED TO GIVE YOU THING NUMBER ONE! REMEMBER--?? THIS ISNT ABOUT YOU. YOU DON'T NEED A DAMNED THING! SO SIT DOWN.

and as i got more isolated with my new little son, and the barest necessities to give him a secure home weren't remotely being understood by premies or Maharaji--[although I could see that HIS kids were certainly getting more than enough of everything], I grew desolate, and indignant, and alienated by what I saw.
If I brought the child to Satsang, I was sent out of the hall. If i couldnt get a babysitter, I couldn't go to satsang.
I was becoming a freak in the only community I had ever found.
And when I finally went home to th family i had left five years since , praying that they would help me, they stunned me by taking the baby and locking me up in a mental hospital for a year!

so now I was in no man's land. The doctors, my family nor the courts would never believe I was sane if I talked about my beliefs and my Religion, so I had to hide it, my community had betrayed me, my family had betrayed me, my Manifestaion of God Come Down To Save The Planet had betrayed me, and I could not win, no matter what direction I looked in.
No premies came to visit me in the hospital. Where were all those lovely programs we used to do, going to see the nursing homes and institutions in the World Welfare Organization? Where were they now? Gone to worshipping Maharaji only. Fuck spreading peace and caring to your fellow man, to the rest of the Creation. Fuck no--it's the 80's, baby. Ronald Reagan is President and Money is King. Compassion is a dirty word, now. Greed is the Style now. Get all you can. Look out for Number ONE. The Seventies are over, kid.

And when I finally did get out of the hospital, what do I find, but the ashrams are closing.
He's spitting us all back out into the very World, that Materialistic, nasty, uncaring, dog-eat-dog that he siren-songed us to forsake, for his supposed Holy Shelter, so eloquently and persuasively, just a few years ago.

Yeah, Tim--damned straight, I wanted he Religion! Damned straight, I got pissed that he reneged on the deal and turned us out! I was Real Clear on what was good and right about being a Premie, and no way in hell am I gonna live your new Lie and take up with all the shit I left when I listened to you in the beginning.
You have lost your way, and you have led all those who stay with you, right back into the same Wrong that you beckoned us to leave when you first arrived here.

My son grew up without me. My family wouldn't give him back when I got out. So I endured the 80's-- and the 90's-- without getting to be the Mother that God made me [you for damned sure didn't], without any of the religious community that had contained all the things I realized we had to do as a Race, to head off destroying our planet, without any help from you or your minions who dumbly aped whatever they saw you do [that you did with their money, but that left them none to do it too--funny how that works]
and when you gelivered me the supreme slap in the face that day in Sanat Monica by ditching us with the DVD and couldn't even stick around to meditate with us,
that did it.
Screw you. You don't want what I want. You're part of the problem, I aint going down with you. Your jet is feeding Global Warming and pollutes the atmosphere. Your profligate waste could feed the starving of Afghanistan. Your fucking yacht serves no one, period. The petroleum drilled for your jet fuel also fuels the engines of corruption, graft and war that sets the Middle East against the George Bushes of the world, and you crave to be accepted by them as a peer.

You are losing your religion, my man, but I have not lost mine, and you will not fool me into letting go of it because you have deluded your own soul into telling your believers that it's what life is for.

I will see you at your Life Judgement, and I will testify against you. Be sure of it.

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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 18:47:58 (EST)
From: Suedoula
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Re: OK, I confess. I did.
Message:
Oh Janet,

I am so sorry to hear how hard life was for you.

Makes me realize what a perfect target market so many of us were. There we were looking for something more and that unnamed thing we were all looking for made us all the more vulnerable. We were willing to give our lives to the one who promised it to us. And our lives were taken at such a cost.

How could this be a positive experience when so many of us were left with nothing (or at least next to nothing?)

Many of us were young (younger, at least) and naive enough to believe that in the end, we would come out of the whole process with something , too. How could we have known that all we would do was build ol' fat boy an Empire.

We were all so loving towards each other as long as we all fit into the mold. Not fitting into the mold was dangerous. Admitting we didn't fit into the mold was subversive. We were supportive of each other within the framework of what was laid out for us. After all, the point was to do as M told us and not to question.

In the end, we were left with nothing. That is why I am so at a loss for words when I hear premies continue to talk about that 'Experience' that keeps them around and tied to the lardass feet. I've noticed that not one of them can truly say what the experience it is they are having. They think it is because it so 'vast.' I think it's because there is nothing there.

My only saving grace was leaving the Ashram a year or so before M booted everyone out. I still had nothing and nothing going for me but at least it was on my terms.

Thanks for sharing your story.

Warmly,
Susan

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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 09:08:52 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Re: OK, I confess. I did.
Message:
Janet,
I'm sorry to hear things were so very difficult for you. How did yo and your son manage to come to terms with the forced separation?

It seems this cult damages no matter how they slice and dice it, no matter which spin is put on it. Maharaji changed course so many times and always the central thing was 'Surrender' no matter what was being required, which kept anyone from asking questions.

You obviously have a high IQ. What are you doing with it these days? I've had to study a great deal about the needs of the gifted, and one thing I know, sometimes a high intelligence can become an albatross instead of a gift. If you want any info or links, I'd be happy to dig them up for you.

Who knew Maharaji was out having a Marlborough during the big unveiling at Santa Monica, showcasing the knowledge CD? And he said we were special cuz we were the first mass to see it!

Be well
-Vicki

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 23:23:54 (EST)
From: bill--but I shunned my mom for 17 years
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: for good reason, dont you get it?
Message:
Fits right in with the self criticism practice they got at the KIT
training and the special intensive events rawat put on as told by John Mac Gregor.

The liar whittiker is reffering I suppose to the first wave of folks in 1971 who wore white in England. Briefly.
glen was among them.

I figure they are also referring to his mom. It is a tough one trying to explain away his shunning his mom for 17 years till she finally died. His kids didnt get to meet 'grandma'.

They try to cover the intense cruelty of rawat's actions by blameing
his victims.

timmy galway said 'Do I love my quote 'religion,' my 'Maharaji religion,' or do I love my actual recognition, my actual understanding of what I am seeing and experiencing.'
what the hell is this moron talking about anyway?
WHAT recognition-WHAT understanding-and what is he seeing?

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 21:48:11 (EST)
From: Peter Howie
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: And I remember
Message:
Hi again,

I remember a line being repeated many timew even by MJ.

The West has one leg to short - the spiritual leg and the other doing fine. The east (India) has a different leg to short - the material leg - the spiritual one is doing fine. repeated many times. Direct implication that what goes on in India is OK and definitely better than what goes on for spirituality in the West.

I was quite effected by that line. The line itself can't stand up to much real scrutiny - but I wasn't into doing that. It just seemed like a good line at the time.

Cheers

Peter

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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 01:12:26 (EST)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Peter Howie
Subject: Re: And I remember
Message:
'The West has one leg to short ...'

I think he copied that off of Swami Satchitanand who said something almost identical at Woodstock in 1969. It's in the Woodstock movie.

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 21:53:04 (EST)
From: Bai Ji
Email: None
To: Peter Howie
Subject: Hi Peter...
Message:
Could you post me you email address?
I'd like to write you.
If not here, maybe through Pat C
X Bai
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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 22:19:26 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: pdconlon@hotmail.com
To: Bai Ji
Subject: Re: Hi Peter...
Message:
Bai Ji is my email pal, Peter. She's from your neck of the woods. If you want you are welcome to use me to exchange email addresses.
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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 00:40:32 (EST)
From: Bai Ji
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Ta Pat..X...(nt)
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 17:44:05 (EST)
From: Barbara
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Sartorial Saffronization
Message:
If anything, sartorial-wise, would have run me off the cliff, it was those polyester skirts and jackets we got post-Millennium (I guess the finance people who brokered the deal figured those clothes would be better on Mars, our air-lifted destination after M '73).

I remember wearing one of those forest green poly long skirts, a poly suit jacket (which made ya sweat like a farm animal), with the outfit splendidly finished off with baby's first summer tan earth shoes. One day I looked down and all I could see was this vast expanse of pilled green with my feet looking like Mickey Mouse poking out from under a tent. That was it for me. I never wore any of that crap ever again...too much pride and vanity on my part, sins or no. A poly sari would've been better any day of the week. ;)

I started wearing mid-calf skirts with normal shoes, and soon thereafter I began to see less and less of those poly monstrosities. Talk about POLYmorphous perversity.

I'm surprised no one's floated the idea that we all left because we didn't have a pestilent and cadaver ridden river in which to bathe.

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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 00:35:10 (EST)
From: Francesca :~)
Email: None
To: Barbara
Subject: I had more sedate clothes than nuns
Message:
I remember that I went to visit my sister at her Catholic college when we were into the long skirts and the hair pulled back. The nuns at her college were wearing much shorter skirts than I was and less severe hairstyles.

I remember that at Millenium all the ashram premies had to go into this huge concrete room and pick out one of each thing in their size. I got this practically floor length grey wool jumper (that's not a sweater in the US, it's an overdress with no arms that you wear shirts under) with buttons all down the front.

When I was in Atlanta I was going to temp jobs dressed like that. With some goofy shoes I looked like a cult member fer sure. No one was dressing up like that. It was not normal.

Mata Ji sure didn't know how to dress. The prude cult.

:) Francesca

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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 01:45:00 (EST)
From: Barbara
Email: None
To: Francesca :~)
Subject: Drowning, Not Waving
Message:
In my community, the ashram housemother set the trends for the entire community. One day we all went to the beach and we had to swim with all our clothes on. No bathing suits were allowed and, luckily, no one drowned. Good thing we weren't in Nice.

I remember that clothing free-for-all, Francesca. I guess you nabbed that luvverly jumper before I got to it.

+)

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 18:19:58 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Barbara
Subject: Barbara, great post...
Message:
Sartorial Saffronizaion. An illiteration with a punch.

When I read your post it reminded me of another cult, the Scientologists, and a website I found recently by ex-cult folks.

Get a load of these uniforms! Scroll all the way down the page. It would be funny if it wasn't so dangerous.

Fondly,
Cynthia

http://www.xenu.net/archive/photoalbum/
[ Ex-Scientology Photo Page ]

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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 04:51:32 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: didn't I TELL you so??
Message:
remember my post about a week back, about the Scientologists taking over Hollywood Boulevard , with their pseudo uniforms? I was not kidding or exaggerating. You gotta see them out in force to understand it. Brownshirts, SS, Hitler Youth, you name it. Gives me the creeps.
Like I said in my post, I have street-urchin young friends who like to heckle the uniformed Scientologists by abruptly saluting in formation at them, all in unison, with their spiked, purple hair and studs and body piercings and torn leather, by thumping their chests loudly with their fists and giving the stiff-arm nazi salute, and crying as one 'HAIL, C-ORG!...HAIL, C-ORG!' as the drones and clones stride by them, down the sidewalk amidst the turistas and the homeless.
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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 11:01:52 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Re: didn't I TELL you so??
Message:
Yup, I remember your post about scientologists. I never knew they wore military uniforms--I thought they just work the same type of suits. I don't think you'd see Tom Cruise or John Travolta in an outfit like that--out for L. Ron!

Good for those street urchins for saluting them with nazi gestures.

Weird and dangerous group. The anti-site is quite bold considering the amount of backlash ''deserters'' receive.

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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 05:01:04 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: here-look what I mean!
Message:
The ones in the blue shirts are all over Hollywood Boulevard in phalanxes, every damned day!

They look like this

[ They look like this ]
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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 21:45:39 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Interesting website - worth a look
Message:
Thanks for the link, Cynthia. I'm going to keep an eye on it to see if it gets hacked and for news of any cult attacks on their exes.

I actually left the cult because of bad haircuts and second-hand suits from the Salvation Army. I wish I could have worn a sari instead.

I loved Barbara's line: ''I'm surprised no one's floated the idea that we all left because we didn't have a pestilent and cadaver ridden river in which to bathe.''

I doubt if Whitewash Whittaker will take the suggestion seriously but then you never know.
[ Ex-Scientologists Website ]

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 21:01:51 (EST)
From: Barbara
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Jeez, they look like the cast of a Navy Musical +) [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 17:17:21 (EST)
From: Francesca :~)
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: They loved that form of dedication
Message:
Joe,

If anyone still loved the ashram when they closed, it was because they were living in the 'stable' from which M picked his instructors, and unless you were on the PAM track, the only way to get close was to be an instructor.

So for those who wanted to totally dedicate their lives to M, they were no longer going to be 'special' doing it. That's one thing I can think of.

The sari thing is absurd. The only people who wore saris came from India, except for Maharaji's own wife. I was around from 1973 to 1985, and NO premie that I knew wore a sari -- it was never even a fad amongst the wanna be's. Maharaji was always very modern and wore suits. It was he who liked to be quaint and camp it up Indian style, along with his crown and the famous wobble dance.

'I wish I could shimmy like my sister Kate
she shakes it just like jelly, on a plate'
-- traditional blues tune

Sari you guys, we were there. The most anyone did was wear those Indian whites, some of the guys, you know the kurta and pants thing. But hippies were ALREADY wearing that stuff before they ever heard of M.

As I said in my post below on the Michael Nouri video/DVD, the only people who believe this stuff are premies. All the old press articles and the accompanying photos bear out what the premies looked like. Anyone who was around that Kittredge building and some of the other premie enterprises can tell you that suits were the way to do business, not kurtas.

LOLs,

Francesca

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 14:19:16 (EST)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Religious trappings
Message:
Sure, that's the party line. It was all those concept crazed Indians that forced us (and M by the sound of it) to take on the trappings and create a religion. NOT!

Many ex's that I've spoken to say the same thing: 'Oh, yeah we really projected a lot of stuff on M.' Well, I felt the same way and was really glad when I went back to see M for a K review in the mid-90's and got the idea all the trappings were behind us. Then the rude awakening at Long Beach where the big D of devotion was what it was obviously still about.

I'll have to play devil's advocate here. There was one premie around the mid-80's who told me he missed the ceremony and ritual of Maharajism. He therefore took up a similar guru-devotee relationship with another teacher. The person he revered was Swift Deer. He was part Native-American shaman and part Irish Viet Nam vet. Swift Deer had quite a following among the Miami premies at that time. His 'events' consisted of ritual gatherings including smoking a peace pipe filled with tobacco and marijuana. He did a very special (read expensive) ceremony called the Kadoshka (sp?) wherein he and his wife would have everyone disrobe. Those two would then come around the room and inspect the participants genitals and declare what type they had. A man would be told he had a 'tipili' meaning tipi pole shaped organ, etc. Woman were 'diagnosed' as having a 'tiger lilly', etc. I'm absolutely not making this up. I could name notable names but would not want to embarrass anyone. Needless to say, in such a 'revealing' environment, marriages were broken up and worse.

There are several other notable ex's, including one highly visible SAM (security around maharaji) who fell for the Mafu scam, similar to Ramtha. Mafu was touted to be a several thousand year old being. Again, they flocked to her seeking the ritrual and religion abandoned by M. Brian S, her group was in Portland. Ever heard of her?

These examples are certainly extreme and not at all representative of the thousand who have left M&K. I just couldn't resist pointing out how one bizarre religion can encourage others. Having said that, I'm certain that virtually all of those seeking other religions were also very disappointed with M's lack of integrity and sought another teacher they could trust.

Richard, was sohung but now I'm tipili

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 14:41:16 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Good point....
Message:
You would think that if what Tim Gallwey and Ron Geaves were saying had any validity, then premies would have left the Maharaji cult, and looked for another, more religious or Hindu/traditional, trip to follow so they could continue the 'Indian tradition lifestyle' they just loved so much, that they rejected Maharaji when he supposedly dropped them. I suppose there exists somebody who did this like you mention, but I sure never heard of it.

And the other point is that the Hindu rituals are still happening, both darshan and arti being prime examples.

The other logical disconnect in Gallwey's spin is that Maharaji, himself, like Cynthia said, was the major instigator of the Hindu rituals. It wasn't like they existed at the beginning and he gradually got rid of them, because the historical truth is that things like Krishna outfits, darshan, Arti, Holi, etc., actually INCREASED in frequency until the 80s. Maharaji was laying the Hindu rituals in ever increasing helpings on us (maybe not saris, though :)), rather than vice versa, and in a fashion the direct opposite of someone who was trying to 'separate' knowledge from 'Indian cultural traditions.'

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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 02:13:28 (EST)
From: Joy
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Saris?? Huh?
Message:
What is all this nonsense about saris? I never once saw a Western 'sister' in any of the ashrams wear a sari, from 1973-1982 (my years of servitude). Only ones who wore saris were the Indian mahatmas, whose native clothing it was anyhow. Oh, and Durgle Ji up onstage in Amherst, 1974, looking very glam with diamonds etc. I think Claudia adopted it a bit also, for the stage, but you got the idea for them it was just sort of dressing up and they probably changed back into their usual kit the minute they were offstage. It certainly didn't inspire any of us to wear saris.

I wonder when Linda Pascotto received Knowledge, what year? Where were these saris being worn? Certainly not in my neck of the woods (London/Denver). Now I could understand if people were put off by the uniformity of the awful duds from the 'clothes closet' in the Kittredge building around 1975, everybody walking around wearing the same ugly blazers and floor-length wool skirts etc. Ugh. Give me a sari any day! I think Linda must've been thinking of the Krishnas or a different cult. We may have been a cult, but saris certainly weren't mandatory!

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 14:13:49 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: It's another smokescreen.
Message:
Hi Joe,

I think this 'blame Hinduism' spin is just another smokescreen. The nub of Rawat's trip is that he's the 'Living Perfect Master', just like Jesus, Buddha, Krishna and Mohammed. And on that level, nothing has changed.

The latest cult publications still refer to this status, albeit obliquely. The premies around Rawat believe this, as do most of the remaining old-timers.

You're dead right to expose the new revisionist cult line on the 70s. It's yet another attempt at damage limitation. They're coming up with new explanations of themselves ten to the dozen. But at the core of the cult is the Captain, still sitting on his throne waiting for the opportunity to get his Krishna crown out again. (Maybe he still wears it in his living room.)

And he still surrounds himself with people who would go out and tell the world he was Peter Pan, and could fly, if that's what he asked them to do.

It's a bankrupt, discredited personality cult, with a morally bankrupt, confused person at the head, heading for another type of bankruptcy.

Yes Joe, it's absurd.

Anth, still likes curry.

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 14:17:29 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Internal propaganda?
Message:
It seems that the video was put together as propaganda for the premies, most of whom probably have had some misgivings about what happened over the years. This gives a very simplistic rationale, from the high priests of the cult, no less. The ones who were around at the very beginning, have had knowledge the longest, and who are also willing to blame themselves and the other premies for all the problems.

Linda Pascotto told me that the video was not intended to have any contrary views because it was put together for people, 'who enjoy knowledge.' I asked her why she might think that 'people who enjoy knowledge' would be less interested in historical accuracy, but she didn't respond.

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 14:06:34 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Sandy Collier's Spin
Message:
So Sandy 'spin-doctor' Collier says 'We brought a lot of Indian attachments with us, you know, that since knowledge came from India, that somehow we had to adapt some of the Indian things ...'

er, Sandy, the 'Indian attachments' wouldn't include things like ... Krishna Crowns, ... celebrations of the Hindu festival 'Holi', ... full-frontal pranams ... the concept of 'lotus feet', etc. etc. would they?

We were the ones who brought that to the West, were we?

PS
Joe - next time you've got the Passages vid on your player, check out the scene where the anonymous narrator (as were all the interviewees, which says something in itself, but I digress) - where the narrator starts speaking, right near the beginning of the film.

There's a few shots (in black & white) of an early 70s demonstration, yeah? Now, look at the writing on the placard that one of the demonstrators is holding.

Got it?

Feel free to share it with the Forum?

Like Kelly said about them using the music to Arti (played almost subliminally on solo guitar at the end of the film) - is someone taking the piss or what?!

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 14:05:27 (EST)
From: Suedoula
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: Passages Spin -- comments, please
Message:
Are they trying to say that we were out there looking for an Hindu religion to follow? Then we could trot out our saris and arti trays and altars, start cooking indian food, move into ashrams, live a renunciate lifestyle and express our devotion by kissing someone's feet? That we even had a clue what 'maya' was and were looking for a way to get beyond it? And Maharaji came along and conveniently filled our need for a master to worship? Not how I remember it. Sorry, I NEVER heard M say NOT to do any of those things.

Wait, there was that darshan line when I distinctly remember him saying 'Stop kissing my feet! Who do you think I am, the Lord or something?' No, I must have imagined that. Then there was the time where he said 'Take this knowledge, go home and practice it, be happy and you never have to come and see me or kiss my feet or give me any of your money so I can buy myself expensive things ever again. Just leave a thank you note at the door when you go.' Hmmm, wait, don't think he said that either.

My fave part is how he resisted all the attempts at creating a religion from day one. The Krishna crown -- oh I bet he was fighting tooth and nail on that one, too. 'I won't wear that crown, I won't. Those people out there might think I am God or something. And I refuse to dance. No way.'

I think I just realized that poking yourself in the eyes for long periods of time can cause delusion and amnesia.

Best to all,
Susan

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 17:26:11 (EST)
From: salsa
Email: None
To: Suedoula
Subject: good post! ARTI
Message:
In India today people still sing arti to maharaji, and yes, he hasn't stop them from doing it each time, with the ghee candles too.

You are my father, you are my mother....you are the Supreme Power in Person, I bow down at your feet... MASTER. Oh yeah, we made it all up. Many of us went literally nuts trying to fit him in our lives and now he wants to make us look like lunatics; what a farce!

Who is writing the tell all book? ())

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 15:39:12 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Suedoula
Subject: ***BEST of FORUM***
Message:
Yes, girl, you deserve it on this one.

It just doesn't get any deeper, does it?

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 15:43:51 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: YUP***BEST of FORUM*** Suedoula [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 14:49:58 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Suedoula
Subject: Actually -- honestly -- there IS a point there
Message:
You know, being serious now, I think that there is a bit of a point to be made that many premies were indeed looking for an Indian guru trip or were, at least, a bit enchanted with the prospect and flirting with the idea. 'A real life guru of your own!' -- kind of thinking. This is only relevant in the early seventies, mind you, a few short years after even Sammy Davis Jr. and all those other 'hipsters' wore their Nehru jackets and beads on Johnny Carson, after normal, stupid kids riding the trend of the day camped out in the pages of Be Here Now ('the Guru will come to you when you're ready'). I know I, personally, wanted something like that.

HOWEVER, what these guys don't mention is that, as soon as we fell prey to Maharaji's siren song, we quickly dropped all that stuff. Maharaji, we understood, was so much the 'real thing' we could relax all that silly guru stuff. Ater all, it was never really us anyway, just another vain attempt to find the truth within us.

Afterwards, it was as if we could have our cake and eat it too. Maharaji, the Lord of all Lords, transcended the east from whence he came. He didn't need that tradition. Like everything else in this universe (and any others, by the way), he created it. All the same, that tradition was rich in the grace of small, proto-Maharaji's, guys like Jesus, Krishna, Guru This, Swami That. Thus, we were welcome to dip into the writings of guys like Nanak, Ramakrishna, Kabir, just like Maharaji, his Holy Family and the Mahatmas did, for prophecy, confirming scripture and inspiration. But we weren't bound by it and didn't need it. Maharaji was always very clear on that score and thus so were we.

The main thing is that I never knew a single premie who didn't seem to understand this. So if Maharaji wanted to get Indian with us, say play a little Holi or something, that was fine. But we weren't dependent on it. Our myth was all about how vastly superior we were to such trappings, however relevant.

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 17:25:01 (EST)
From: Francesca :~)
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Vastly superior, RIGHT ON, JIM
Message:
In fact, that 'vastly superior' stuff exists to this day. I know of an active premie that seems to relish every opportunity to poke at my mother's 'religion' because in their 'vastly superior' mind, they don't need that 'religion' stuff. What the premies are doing, is, uh, so vastly superior to all that. No scriptures, no rituals.

I mean, all you need is a pile'o dough, some time off work for programs, and a satellite dish. Yeah, baby.

--f

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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 02:32:28 (EST)
From: Joy
Email: None
To: Francesca :~)
Subject: Re: Vastly superior, RIGHT ON, JIM
Message:
Hi Fran. I think feeling 'vastly superior' and special and different was what being a premie (or in any cult) is all about. You can't accept that you're the same as every other joe blow on the planet, you have to somehow be above them and look down on them in a supposedly spiritual manner to build up your spiritual ego. It's pathetic, really. No ordinary religion for us, thank you, we need a living Lord in person to worship and adore and buy yachts and planes for. I think Maharaji feeds off people's insecurities and needs to feel one-up on their fellow humans, it supports his whole trip.

I remember when I got out having an overwhelming feeling that I wanted to be 'normal' (whatever that is!). But just to get down off the high horse and be like everybody else for once, it's such a relief. To not have to feel 'different' and superior from the rest of the human race, there's a lot of stress involved in that after awhile, despite its initial attractions.

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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 14:30:38 (EST)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Joy
Subject: the high horse
Message:
Joy,

I remember a break that came for me around 1975. I had been a file clerk for three years, and it occured to me that I should learn to type instead of resisting being an office drone. I really liked my fellow employees, and even as a cult member they tolerated me and we discussed our views. I told them I wanted to be without attachments, and several lusty ladies told me that desire was where it was at for them.

It suddenly occured to me one day that it had taken me three years to see that I was just like everyone else. We all wanted the same things -- to be happy, etc. I fit in just fine. When I was young, I fancied myself special because I was a tortured musician/artist. Then the premie myth continued the same.

Of course, in 1977 the music started to be turned up again and pretty soon I was vastly superior again. I once again had that 'understanding' about 'that place' and 'that love' and 'that peace.'

Love,

Francesca

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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 19:01:15 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: Re: the high horse
Message:
Francesca,

Ditto on the musician high horse thing. It was my only service in Hartford from when I was an aspirant until I got dumped in Miami Beach--four years.

I had a really bizarre dream about m last night, but I'm not ready to post it. It includes my singing, takes place in the 70s when his children are young, and my house is over-run by rodents!

More later, gotta go.
Love,
Cynthia

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 18:27:34 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Francesca :~)
Subject: Re: Vastly superior, RIGHT ON, JIM
Message:
Plus, tailored Armani suits, $20,000US dresses, any car imaginable, (just have a ''fundraiser''), the very top of the line make up, a large allowance for impulsive shopping sprees, and

A very special, handmade, container for your KRISNA CROWN.

I agree, Vastly Superior Indeed.

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 15:17:04 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Actually -- honestly -- there IS a point there
Message:
Good points, Jim. And just why does he still, to this day, quote Indian saints and poets, if he's trying to get away from Indian influences? He always wants his cake and to eat it too, although
he did make fun of birthday cakes at Long Beach and called them a waste of resources. Now that was funny, inlight of his boat and jet.
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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 15:28:49 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: Maharaji claimed he never read...
Message:
the Gita, or any of those Indian texts which he so often quoted in the past and still quotes.

He said (paraphrased) I never read that, it's just what I was told.

The freak.

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 13:57:38 (EST)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Joe
Subject: attached? - repulsed more like...
Message:
For a super-devotional era (late 70's) aspirant and then premie, I got interested in spite of the Bhakti bullshit, not because of it. I became involved because K was the one Truth and Guji the one-and-only provider of said product - and for that reason alone.

I was at that time well past my teenage hippy phase and much more into an urban punk-type attitude musically and culturally. So my first sight of charnamrit, first singing of Arti, first hearing of the need to 'love', 'devote' and 'surrender to' Maharaji were anathema, not to say a profound embarrassment.

Ok, for those reasons alone, getting rid of them was probably a smart move, propagation-wise in the West, but to pretend the initial attraction for any of us was the curry flavour is so wrong as to be outrageous.

Even then, we were jokingly and disparagingly referring to our 'rites and rituals' - and so were the initiators, and M too, I think. We all knew from the outset, that the trappings were just trappings. (M was already giving satsang in Western business suits and we liked that.)

Because we secretly knew the whole trip was an inner journey - a unique connection with (call him what you like) - the Lord of Creation, the primary source, the living incarnation etc.

If these pathetic revisionists are remotely concerned about the historical truth, they could maybe mention the elephant in the cult's living room. That they will not, or can not, merely demonstrates the elephant is still in that room.

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 13:48:30 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: Passages Spin -- comments, please
Message:
Well, Joe,

The answer to your question is NO, no, no. The only women who wore saris that I know of in goomraji's world of ashrams or in the community were Indian women. And of course, Marolyn Rawat and Claudia Rawat!!

During the 70s the one who wore the most Indian clothes was Maharaji! Krishan pants, crowns, malas, shoeless feet on a pillow set upon large platforms, at large festivals named by him as: Guru Puja, Hans Jayanti, Holi, etc.

I don't remember m ever sitting up on the stage and saying STOP! when we screamed Bolei Shri.....at the top of our lungs, nor when Charanand cut his album of devotional songs which he sang at the festivals on stage swinging his arm and clicking his fingers to the beat with bliss all over his face, dressed in what? Indian clothing.

I don't think I want to see that video after all. Plus, I will go one step further than you and say that these people weren't 'spinning' they were lying!

I'll take a barf bag, too.

Cynthia
P.S. My transcription is coming along well. Not too much longer, but definitely, it is worth the wait!!

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 13:45:13 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: I don't see anything wrong with it
Message:
The fact is, Joe, I never wanted to wear a sari myself. So she's got a bit of a point there, don't you think?
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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 05:24:00 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: hey jim-a dhoti is just a sari
Message:
wrapped and tucked a different way. don't you know that? hey, when you're simple and renounced and don't lust for the things of this world, a plain bolt of cotton fabric is all you could need to cover yourself. you couldn't tell a sari from a dhoti when they're fresh out of the dryer.
so you soulda worn a sari. you just would have left the end tucked at your waist, not wrapped around your head and shoulders.
that's what Rajeswar and jagdeo did when they were relaxing at 1560 Race. I know-I did their laundry and cooked with them.
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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 13:57:50 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Saris were too unflattering...
Message:
Well, I though saris made people look fat, so I was against them from the beginning. I mean, look at Mataji.

I'm fairly certain that all the women, and a few of the men, I knew who were premies had a closet full of saris and were livid when the directive came down, I think in 1979, in the late, late, 70s, that they weren't supposed to wear them anymore. They left in droves. Maharaji had to stare at the ocean for weeks, to figure out how to deal with the difficult sari problem, as this remarkable historical documentary video shows.

Only people like Linda Pascotto, Glen Whittaker and Tim Gallwey, who were so connected with their 'experience' survived the sari ban. Yes, it was very difficult for people. :)

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 15:04:49 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: The secret of saris....
Message:
Yes, Joe, they make svelte ladies look fat but they also make fat ladies look....well...like they're wearing a sari. They cover a multitude of sins and big butts but not double chins.

Could you imagine Mata Ji in some lime-green lycra stretch pants? She would have looked like an avocado or a green mango.

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 15:49:58 (EST)
From: Green Papaya
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: The secret of fitting in...
Message:
Could you imagine Mata Ji in some lime-green lycra stretch pants? She would have looked ike an avocado or a green mango.

Yeah, but in Miami she would've fit right in, 'specially if she wore one of those damned Jiffy Pop hats and, if she caught enough rays, she would've looked like an elephant's knee like all the other grey panthers down there.

Wolfie's, dairy bars and cafe cubano...that's all I remember from Miami. })

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 16:10:10 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Green Papaya
Subject: Skin like an elephant's knee?
Message:
To complete her Miami Bitch outfit she would have had to have her hair in a bouffant all puffed up to hide the bald spots and dyed blue or even pink and also wear a halter top showing all the liver spots on her tits while you sat trying to eat your pastrami sandwich at Wolfie's.

I think I am starting to prefer saris. :C)

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 19:10:32 (EST)
From: Suedoula
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: You gotta admit . . .
Message:
she did wear a mean pair of glasses. Edith Prickly would have been proud.

;)

Susan

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 19:22:55 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Suedoula
Subject: I love Edith Prickly! [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 21:16:36 (EST)
From: Barbara
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Who's Edith Prickly?
Message:
Who's Edith Prickly? Great name, whoever she is.
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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 21:50:02 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Barbara
Subject: Edith Prickly? Like Edna Everidge?
Message:
Mata Ji wore those pointy glasses with little jewels in the points just like Dane Edna does.

And yes: Who is Edith Prickly, Suedoula?

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 22:16:33 (EST)
From: Suedoula
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Re: Edith Prickly? Like Edna Everidge?
Message:
Edith Prickly was a leopard skin clad personna of Andrea Martin from Second City TV. Edith, if I recall correctly, was a tv producer and wore the same little pointy jeweled glasses as did Dame Edna and Mata Ji only she was much less rotund.

Best,
Susan

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 22:39:56 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Suedoula
Subject: Edith Prickley and SCTV
Message:
Edith Prickly was hilarious click on the link, she's in the upper left corner. Check out Yosh and Stand Shmenge of Luetonia polka stars ''Cabbage Rolls adn Coffee, mmm, mmm, good!''

John Candy
Martin Short
Eugene Levy
Joe Flaherty
Andrea Martin
Rick Moranis
Catherine O'Hara
Harold Ramis

When they were young. The most funny late night comedy show ever. It was side splitting funny.

http://sctv.org/cast.htm
[ SCTV So Funny It's Scary ]

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 16:23:25 (EST)
From: Green Papaya
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Life in the Melanoma Lane
Message:
You betcha, skin like an elephant's knee, and so brown it's almost purple. I guess that's why those Jiffy Pop hats were so popular--for those bad hair days when it was too much trouble to cover the bald spots, and you're late to meet your buddettes at the Dairy Bar.

Btw, what does one eat at a Dairy Bar?

Waitress: What can I get you, Miss?

Elephant's Knee Lady: Oh, you called me Miss. I'll remember you in my will. Let's see...I'll have a bowl of half yogurt, half lowfat cottage cheese. A side of sour cream sprinkled with brown sugar (gotta watch my health, dontcha know?). And for dessert, I'll have a quart of vanilla ice cream, with hotfudge and tons of whipped cream, none of that Cool Whip crap. Got any nuts?

Waitress: Oh, you want the Death Wish Special... (and sotto voce to her co-worker): Call 911 and tell them to get here in 'bout half an hour.

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 20:17:32 (EST)
From: PatD
Email: None
To: Green Papaya
Subject: Re: Life in the Melanoma Lane
Message:
What's a Jiffy Pop hat?

I've just looked in a book I have called 'Divided by a Common Language',but there's no mention.

The restaurant where my wife works is full of decrepit old colonials & actors(ditto).

We often have a laugh....in the nicest possible way of course,(& sometimes not)over their foibles.

The occasional American guests seem to have a problem with 'Rissholes' on the menu. Can't say I blame them.

I like your sense of humour.

Pat Dorrity : Stratford-upon-Avon,England.

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 23:25:56 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: PatD
Subject: Stratford-Upon-Avon??
Message:
Geeze, you lucky risshole! By the way, what's a risshole?

I had a glorious time in Stratford-Upon-Avon as a wondering college student. Lived in a little B&B after staying at the White Swan. Swiped my room key because I loved the swan logo so much, but sent it back out of guilt with an apology. This was even pre-k. In turn, they sent me an ink drawing of the hotel. God, I loved that place!

What a charming town!

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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 12:41:53 (EST)
From: PatD
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: Re: Stratford-Upon-Avon?
Message:
Hi Vicki

I'm glad you liked S-u-A. I sometimes feel sorry for the visitors,especially in bad weather,& wonder if they're being ripped off by the tourist industry. We don't live in the town,but in a little village about 5 miles away & have been there for 5 yrs.

The bar of the White Swan is my favourite.

PatC defines rissole below. The 'h' was my little joke. I think you might call them 'patties'.

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 21:13:27 (EST)
From: Green Papaya
Email: None
To: PatD
Subject: Re: Life in the Melanoma Lane
Message:
A Jiffy Pop hat is a name I made up. I used to walk down Collins Ave and see these seniors strolling along with these hats that look like baseball hats, only someone put an air hose in the cap part. So they ended up with these mega puffed up looking heads. I once told a friend of mine, as we were walking down the street looking at an senior duo wearing matching jogging suits, his was baby blue velour, hers pink, topped off with these Jiffy Pop hats, that she had permission to kill me if she ever saw me in one of those outfits.

Jiffy Pop in the States is a food item sold in stores. It's a pan covered in swirled aluminum with a handle. You hold pan over the flame on a stove, and as the popcorn pops the swirled aluminum covering the pan expands into this large silver-looking dome. Hence, Jiffy Pop hats.

What on earth is Risshole? Doesn't sound very appetizing...(how American of me). ;)

Green Papaya, formerly of Miami (thank f***ing god)), now on the Left Coast.

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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 12:46:41 (EST)
From: PatD
Email: None
To: Green Papaya
Subject: Thanks for the explanation
Message:
Yeah , I can visualize them now. Pretty grotesque.

A rissole is a pattie.

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 22:56:48 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Green Papaya
Subject: Life on Collins Ave. circa 1979...Gawd...!
Message:
Whenever I walked down Collins Ave. without exception I would see some old person fall down. I shit you not. It was so frequent, if I was with someone we would laugh so hard. It was bizarre. I often would find very old folks stranded on a curb calling out for help to cross the side street and would practically carry them across. It's was sad, but very funny. My comic relief in bondage())())())

The only nice thing I remember about Collins Ave., at the Broadripple was walking the beaches on the rare occasion I got back there before night when warm tropical air would blow through and over me. A rare stolen moment from slavery service. Once the town had huge earthmovers and were pushing mountains of sand from the ocean to the beach. A treasure trove of sea shells. Too many to take even one.

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 21:58:23 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Green Papaya
Subject: Life in the Fats Lane
Message:
Of course I forgot the rows of hotel verandas filled with deck chairs on which the Miami Bitches sat gossiping all dressed in shocking pink bikinis, bulging ballons of elephant's knee flesh dangling amid the Art Deco.

You asked: ''What on earth is Risshole?''

Actually rissole but PatD's spelling was funnier. It's a meatball, burger, salisbury steak thingy.

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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 01:51:03 (EST)
From: Green Papaya
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Beef Thingies
Message:
I don't think I'd want to eat any meat described as a thingy. ;) It sounds like Brit Spam or Mad Cow Brains.

Here's a ditty from my deformative years which seems to fit this discussion:

Great big globs of greasy, grimy gopher guts
Mutilated monkey's meat
Chopped up dirty birdie's feet
Swiiiimmmmming in pink lemonade.

Think I'll go hurl now, I've made myself sick.

+)

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 16:19:49 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Okay, that does it.....
Message:
Now I have to go out and buy another outfit for the much anticipated Latvian lunch. You guys are so mean. Do you know how long it took me to find these green stretch lycras and Jiffy Pop hat?

-Vicki, who wore a sari once, just once, but they made me do it or I couldn't stay at the birthday party

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 16:23:34 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: We'll have an Inidan Latvian Lunch for Cynthia
Message:
We can all wear saris and I'll cook an Indian feast for Cynthia. Yummy. Now that has made my mouth water. Must have lunch - fried curried potatoes, fresh chapatis and mango chutney. Have fun.
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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 08:14:44 (EST)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Yummy, sounds delicious Pat
Message:
I am on the way, you will see me soon. I will email you



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