Nigel -:- Arrested development (but released on bail) -:- Fri, Apr 06, 2001 at 23:54:35 (GMT)

__ Katie H -:- Another ***BEST OF FORUM*** to Nigel -:- Tues, Apr 10, 2001 at 12:02:33 (GMT)

__ __ Nigel -:- Ta, Katie, and others below.Good to let off steam! -:- Tues, Apr 10, 2001 at 16:58:21 (GMT)

__ Gail -:- Thanks for blowing my socks off, Nigel. (nt) -:- Mon, Apr 09, 2001 at 17:40:46 (GMT)

__ __ Nige -:- Hosiery removal all part of service ma'am nt;) -:- Tues, Apr 10, 2001 at 00:23:39 (GMT)

__ Joe -:- You're a very good man, Nigel -:- Sun, Apr 08, 2001 at 18:55:31 (GMT)

__ __ bill -:- That could be said about you too Joe...nt -:- Mon, Apr 09, 2001 at 12:50:38 (GMT)

__ bill -:- Arrested development (but released on bail) -:- Sun, Apr 08, 2001 at 04:39:11 (GMT)

__ Helen -:- Arrested development (but released on bail) -:- Sat, Apr 07, 2001 at 03:45:00 (GMT)

__ moldy warp -:- nige - OT -:- Sat, Apr 07, 2001 at 02:23:11 (GMT)

__ __ Nigel -:- mold - OT -:- Sat, Apr 07, 2001 at 08:21:07 (GMT)

__ __ __ moldy warp -:- Nige OT -:- Sat, Apr 07, 2001 at 11:43:39 (GMT)

__ Pat Conlon -:- Now, Nige, you know you don't envy New Age -:- Sat, Apr 07, 2001 at 01:14:02 (GMT)

__ __ moldy warp -:- Pat you agnostic ignoramous -:- Sat, Apr 07, 2001 at 01:23:50 (GMT)

__ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Moldy, you shameless flatterer -:- Sat, Apr 07, 2001 at 01:33:08 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ moldy warp -:- Moldy, you shameless flatterer -:- Sat, Apr 07, 2001 at 01:45:12 (GMT)

__ moldy warp -:- Nige - Chop that wood, carry water... -:- Sat, Apr 07, 2001 at 00:20:45 (GMT)

__ __ Nigel -:- Nige - Chop that wood, carry water... -:- Sat, Apr 07, 2001 at 00:47:17 (GMT)

__ __ __ moldy warp -:- Nige - Chop that wood, carry water... -:- Sat, Apr 07, 2001 at 01:19:39 (GMT)

__ Selene -:- Arrested development (but released on bail) -:- Sat, Apr 07, 2001 at 00:06:04 (GMT)

 

Date: Fri, Apr 06, 2001 at 23:54:35 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Everyone
Subject: Arrested development (but released on bail)
Message:

I don’t know whether anyone else can relate to this, but one of the more subtle effects of involvement with this mindwarp known as Knowledge was for me the retarded development of what you might call a ‘worldview’. Most people by the age of twenty-five or thirty tend to know where they stand on most things and could sum up their ‘outlook on life’; this needn’t be anything profound or well-worked-out, but more a case of knowing your own mind or (if you prefer) feelings about things.

Instead, Margie insisted I reject and fear the mental effluent my brainwaves, so there was not much chance of said self-knowledge happening whilst under the influence of his simplistic ‘mind-vs- maharaji’ model of the universe. Paradoxical, really, since Knowledge is supposed to be about knowledge of the ‘self’. Bollocks. It is about ignorance and denial of the self.

Most people hope for a practical, cohesive bedrock belief or philosophy they can refer to and apply to new situations. We might be programmed that way. Something that will hold true across all spheres of activity including the political, the moral, the spiritual, the personal, the scientific etc., including the day-to-day nitty-gritties such as health, drugs, diet and childcare. Prem Rawat is an authority on absolutes (to the extent that he has always been certain about his absolute authority…) So we listened to him. It was this need for certainty (mine, and no doubt, his, too) which brought me into the Knowledge trip but which the cult spectacularly failed to deliver. The worst thing being it took me ten years to realise it. Maharaji’s basic message – implicit or explicit – is once you have Knowledge, the other stuff doesn’t matter. Beautifully simple; simplistically ugly.

The premie solution is to listen first to Maharaji or at least other premies to see whether the Only One has pronounced on the matter in hand. Unfortunately, on many subjects (eg. morality) he said nothing beyond ‘the only sin is to know the truth and then go away from it’, or ‘what good are your principles if you’re going to die anyway?’ He certainly never mentioned the right thing to do after running over and killing a cyclist, for instance...

And when he HAS spoken out on other issues it was the most unadulterated bullshit (check out the ‘dead seeds’ argument for vegetarianism). More unfortunately still, he changed his mind on so many things over the years (astrology, karma, reincarnation, I am Superior Power in Flab but I never wanted to be a leader…) that anyone trying to take the guy seriously ends up dazed and confused - which, come to think of it, are the perfect attributes for the compliant signer of bank drafts, still seeking a place beyond that confusion.

Get your concepts blown on a regular basis and be shown, yet again, what an insignificant worm you are for wanting things to believe in in the first place...

As for the rest, well, forget the political. Crazy politicians are – like the rest of us – in their heads, looking after their careers, full of desires and ambitions, and political solutions won’t bring answers to any of the suffering in the world, will they? (nb: Some truth there, but politicians are not the same thing as a need for political action.)

No, ‘happiness is the practical solution. Everyone gets happy. That’s it… tee-hee-hee…’ was Prem’s giggling prescription for peace on earth - gleefully mistaking outcome for method, perhaps due to a surfeit of ice-cream and TV horror movies - alongside: ‘Peace isn’t the absence of war…’ [er, actually, Prem, that’s exactly what it is!]. And let’s not forget he actually promised to deliver peace within his lifetime. A yearor so back I was thinking of sending a few propagation pamphlets to the Kosovan refugees to let them know the good news about what’s surely gonna happen in what’s left of Prem’s giggling-with-happiness lifetime but, on balance, demurred… (The kids who watched their folks being murdered might not be ready)

And yes, I too want things to believe in. Why not? But I will choose, and have chosen what to believe in. Or maybe I have no choice, since I cannot believe in the unbelievable. When it comes down to it, that part of me that was being permanently suppressed and smothered while I was trying to live ‘in that place’ twenty-nine hours a day, is actually the only part of me I even care about – and which those few special people who care about me care about also…

The part of me that even thinks for itself, makes uncoerced choices, and can interact meaningfully with other people -– and I mean all other people, and not just other cult members. (And you only have to read the contributions of our premie guests on this forum to see the severe shortfall in basic social skills and critical thinking that will accrue from too long spent under a blanket or watching videos…)

Or the part of me that is as much a physical being as anything else. Do you remember that premie song that started: ‘You are not your body. You are not your mind…’?

Sorry, but mind and body - are exactly what you are. Hallelujah! Enjoy them – they are among the most wonderful things that evolved on this planet - alongside yeast, hops and the grape, of course.

So I have fudged together a new worldview in a freelance fusion of Darwinism, atheism, humanism, art and lit (remember when M banned books from ashrams?), Amnesty Internationalism, left-of-centre politics with a spoonful of non-mystical environmentalism thrown in… Shostokovich, Miles Davis, Van Morrison... [list of other musical favourites removed by forum good taste editor]... substitute your own.

No serious drugs except half a gallon of real ale or a nice bottle of red wine, and – of course – a sense of wonder, too much coffee and black sense of humour. But you don’t need to agree with or embrace any of that to reject the teachings of the guru. Find whatever suits you best, I say after first applying some honest, critical scrutiny. You’ll never regret it.

Sometimes I envy those exes with a strong new-age tendency, who carry on meditating without the guru and read their experience is some kind of spiritual merging with the universal juice – no particular worldview except rivers flowing back to ocean of infinity - that Margie was a signpost on the rocky road to... Hell, sometimes I envy CD, for his unshakeable belief in the benevolent playfulness of fookin infinity and the sheer mellow purpose and rightness of everything that is, was, and ever more shall be - oh… But then, again, I wouldn’t want to tell the folks in Kosovo that just at the moment. There’s too much pain in the world for such glibness.

Find something that will apply as much to others as to yourself, I reckon, and if you don’t feel embarrassed telling them about it, then it might be something worth telling them about.

Find something - better still, choose a few things to believe in before they choose you. The chances are, if you are an ex, that you came to Margie because you cared about things like the truth, the whole truth and nothing but… or else because you wanted to know love. Both are out there, in my experience - no guru or devotional commitment necessary. Go get ‘em…or at least enjoy the experience of being your own authority on what is best for you.

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Date: Tues, Apr 10, 2001 at 12:02:33 (GMT)
From: Katie H
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Another ***BEST OF FORUM*** to Nigel
Message:

Thanks - really great post. Marking it for J-M to collect.

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Date: Tues, Apr 10, 2001 at 16:58:21 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: Katie H
Subject: Ta, Katie, and others below.Good to let off steam!
Message:

nt

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Date: Mon, Apr 09, 2001 at 17:40:46 (GMT)
From: Gail
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Thanks for blowing my socks off, Nigel. (nt)
Message:

nt

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Date: Tues, Apr 10, 2001 at 00:23:39 (GMT)
From: Nige
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Gail
Subject: Hosiery removal all part of service ma'am nt;)
Message:

nt

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Date: Sun, Apr 08, 2001 at 18:55:31 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: You're a very good man, Nigel
Message:

Despite Maharaji, it seems to me like you have done pretty well, from what I can see, in developing an excellent and coherent basis of values and a sense of justice for yourself. And that post was just another example. It would be a great loss to all of us if those qualities of yours, as well as your sharp and humanistic intellect, were still glued shut in Maharaji's truncated philosophy. Thanks for being here, Nigel.

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Date: Mon, Apr 09, 2001 at 12:50:38 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: That could be said about you too Joe...nt
Message:

dsfhfsa

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Date: Sun, Apr 08, 2001 at 04:39:11 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Arrested development (but released on bail)
Message:

Hi Nigel,
Maybe keep this post handy and repost it when the newbies arrive off the magazine article.
As Jim would say, its a keeper.

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Date: Sat, Apr 07, 2001 at 03:45:00 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Arrested development (but released on bail)
Message:

So true. M is such a lightweight himself. Can you imagine him weighing in on the issue between the U.S. and China?
How naive were we to think that everything had a simple solution-stick your thumbs in your ears and so-hung it all away!

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Date: Sat, Apr 07, 2001 at 02:23:11 (GMT)
From: moldy warp
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: nige - OT
Message:

did you get my Email re swimming and walking - somuts up with post - got message it was not sent so I've sent it again x

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Date: Sat, Apr 07, 2001 at 08:21:07 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: moldy warp
Subject: mold - OT
Message:

No, not yet. Something strange going on with my mailbox...

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Date: Sat, Apr 07, 2001 at 11:43:39 (GMT)
From: moldy warp
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Nige OT
Message:

Youve definitely got an imp in yer mail box. Had 2 returned so I'll try again today

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Date: Sat, Apr 07, 2001 at 01:14:02 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Now, Nige, you know you don't envy New Age
Message:

dreamers and mystics. I loved your post. Everyday since cutting my umbilical cord to the urug I feel my intellect coming more alive.

How the fuck did I survive for 28 years being an intellectual cripple? All of a sudden it is no longer an effort to think straight. I never gave up on my intellect but there was a dissonance with what I had to stomach form the urug.

Of course, since finding out that not only did he fill our heads with nonsensical concepts but that he also deliberately teaches a perverted form of meditation, I have realized exactly what was wrong with me. He mind-fucked me.

Mostly it's nice to sink back into my true nature which is like a comfortable chair. No mental conflicts. No having to try to understand weird concepts or believe in anything. Not having to compare everything with the ''ultimate truth.''

I'm quite happy being an agnostic ignoramus who thinks life is fine without having to try to squeeze some spiritual claptrap into my protesting brain. I'd rather study botany or history.

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Date: Sat, Apr 07, 2001 at 01:23:50 (GMT)
From: moldy warp
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: Pat you agnostic ignoramous
Message:

You have more wisdom in your little toe than mind-fucker has in his entire (and it is pretty entire) body.
God- I love this forum!

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Date: Sat, Apr 07, 2001 at 01:33:08 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: moldy warp
Subject: Moldy, you shameless flatterer
Message:

How many exes have you fallen in love with just through their words here? Sometimes I start feeling like I'm in the same room with them. Their ''realness'' just is almost palpable.

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Date: Sat, Apr 07, 2001 at 01:45:12 (GMT)
From: moldy warp
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: Moldy, you shameless flatterer
Message:

Oh -you've got my number! Pat - you romantic poet you!
Beats trying to fall in love with Lard hands down!

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Date: Sat, Apr 07, 2001 at 00:20:45 (GMT)
From: moldy warp
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Nige - Chop that wood, carry water...
Message:

What's the sound of one hand clappin'- Enlightenment - don't know what it is.
Very special post...just taking it in x

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Date: Sat, Apr 07, 2001 at 00:47:17 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: moldy warp
Subject: Nige - Chop that wood, carry water...
Message:

You are much skilled in the arts of crypticism, moldio - but it sounded cool;)

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Date: Sat, Apr 07, 2001 at 01:19:39 (GMT)
From: moldy warp
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Nige - Chop that wood, carry water...
Message:

You know - Van the Man - Enlightenment - was having a philosophical moment courteousy of other bottle of Chilean red - oops - supposed to be saving that wasn't I? will go to chez tescos and get more supplies. BTW - your post - mental effluent bit - very very funny.

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Date: Sat, Apr 07, 2001 at 00:06:04 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Arrested development (but released on bail)
Message:

Of course I can relate. I said as much to Pete below and have said so often. Put a serious trauma/traumas from childhood that you don't deal with into the mix and out comes a mess after the bandaid of googooism goes away.

I cannot believe what spilled out since the lid blew off the pressure cooker 3 years ago, and also on a positive note the healing that has taken place once I stopped using M's platitudes as a balm.

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