Disculta -:- Incredible post from Life is Great -:- Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 19:12:13 (GMT)

__ bill -:- Would someone email this to charles......nt -:- Sat, Jul 07, 2001 at 14:50:30 (GMT)

__ Jim -:- The post is riddled with both gems and bullshit -:- Sat, Jul 07, 2001 at 02:52:48 (GMT)

__ __ PatC -:- New Age Newspeak 101 for Jim -:- Sat, Jul 07, 2001 at 08:06:27 (GMT)

__ __ such -:- agree somewhat-yer valid points. still potent (nt -:- Sat, Jul 07, 2001 at 07:36:45 (GMT)

__ Bin Liner -:- An arrow through the heart of darkness... -:- Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 23:30:10 (GMT)

__ Francesca -:- She's still believing the PR on this point though -:- Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 23:18:08 (GMT)

__ __ Katie -:- To tell you the truth, Francesca ... -:- Sat, Jul 07, 2001 at 01:28:31 (GMT)

__ __ __ Francesca -:- I think Lifes Great is pretty toxic -:- Sat, Jul 07, 2001 at 04:00:48 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Katie -:- I think Lifes Great is pretty toxic -:- Sat, Jul 07, 2001 at 15:58:46 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Francesca -:- I'm glad LG exists, no doubt -:- Sat, Jul 07, 2001 at 20:07:22 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- What a crock of shit, Katie! -:- Sat, Jul 07, 2001 at 17:22:35 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Stonor -:- I think Lifes Great is pretty toxic -:- Sat, Jul 07, 2001 at 05:49:01 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Francesca -:- As long as the topic has to be M and K -:- Sat, Jul 07, 2001 at 20:02:31 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Yes and no. -:- Sun, Jul 08, 2001 at 02:16:39 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Tell us why your opinion should matter -:- Sun, Jul 08, 2001 at 04:53:49 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Why should there be any need? And who is 'us'? -:- Sun, Jul 08, 2001 at 14:37:37 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Francesca -:- Stonor -- I'm glad to have you here -:- Sun, Jul 08, 2001 at 18:03:56 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Thanks Francesca. -:- Sun, Jul 08, 2001 at 22:42:50 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- And who is 'us'? See my post to you above re -:- Sun, Jul 08, 2001 at 17:55:33 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Try speaking for yourself sometime, Pat, ... -:- Sun, Jul 08, 2001 at 21:54:45 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ PatC -:- Lifes Great is toxic - like an overdose of sugar -:- Sat, Jul 07, 2001 at 05:00:32 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ such -:- saccharin+olestra!Warning:may cause analleakage(nt -:- Sat, Jul 07, 2001 at 07:42:14 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ nt -:- saccharin+olestra!Warning:may cause analleakage(nt -:- Sat, Jul 07, 2001 at 07:41:05 (GMT)

__ __ Deborah -:- My thoughts exactly... -:- Sat, Jul 07, 2001 at 00:03:56 (GMT)

__ __ __ Goodygoodygirl -:- Well not exactly . . . -:- Sun, Jul 08, 2001 at 20:03:04 (GMT)

__ Bingo, GoodyGoodyGirl -:- Incredible post from Life is Great--a MUST READ -:- Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 20:36:26 (GMT)

__ __ Monmot -:- The abv was from me...I screwed up the fields..nt -:- Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 20:38:28 (GMT)

__ Brian -:- Thank you GoodyGoody Girl -:- Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 20:30:45 (GMT)

__ __ Jean-Michel -:- Thank you GoodyGoody Girl ****Best of Forum**** -:- Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 22:04:11 (GMT)

__ __ __ Francesca -:- ***YES, this one's a RINGER***----------n/t -:- Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 23:55:37 (GMT)

__ Carl -:- Also, Prempal Rawat : READ THIS POST! -:- Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 19:57:13 (GMT)

__ suchabanana -:- some potent sections! Everyone,please read thread -:- Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 19:49:14 (GMT)

__ Disculta -:- Incredible post from Life is Great 91 more words -:- Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 19:20:49 (GMT)

__ __ Daisy -:- Incredible post from Life is Great 91 more words -:- Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 19:41:53 (GMT)

__ __ __ Forum Admin -:- *** ALL LINKS ARE ABOVE *** -:- Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 20:32:10 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Brian -:- [silent chuckles] nt -:- Sat, Jul 07, 2001 at 06:53:54 (GMT)

__ __ __ such -:- here's the link: cut 'n paste to address. (nt -:- Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 19:52:07 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ such -:- #P_1TWJ -:- Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 19:53:13 (GMT)

Date: Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 19:12:13 (GMT)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Incredible post from Life is Great
Message:

The other Katie just e-mailed me and referred me to this brilliant post on Life is Great by someone called 'the GoodyGoody Girl.' It's quite mind-blowing and very long. I highly recommend printing it out and learning it by heart;–)

Here it is:
What Happened Maharaji???

From my experience of old timers, even older than myself and I have had K for 22 years, I can see how those guys were really screwed up by the way the organisation was then, in the way that it treated people who were really, really inspired.

We have been through years of unlimited servitude and servility through years of being pushed around and destroyed on many levels.

To have believed that something was so pure and holy and good all these years and then suddenly find that its all pooh, not pure is a great shock to the system. Even now when I know that I am on the other side of devotion, when I see pictures of Maharaji my heart still wants to believe. Yet with M all my personal nightmares were starting to come true. It is almost as if M switched our whole consciousness around and we went into reverse psychology. Believe the psychologists then, what M did was to make our own humanness toxic to ourselves.

“Toxic” at this point is an appropriate description of what has happened to all those ex’s who are really angry and screaming and shouting on the “toxic” web-sites, for in fact, this is what M has created, through his mind manipulation of the masses. They have nowhere else to go.

My own feeling therefore is that I could be angry, my life too had spun out of my control, but far more constructive is my feeling to try and understand the damage.

We have to be clear and really zipped out and do some healing for ourselves. Without some positive movement we may well continue in stalemate. If what M has is power, and if that power has been in some way extended to the whole world, through us as channels. How responsible then are we for what we have in a society that is based on blame and lawlessness without contention. This is the way in which M has behaved in his belief that he is above and beyond reproach in this life.

Leading us into confusion by his revisionist structure. That is, he kept moving the goalposts so that we never knew where we really were. We were never good enough, we’d never get it, etc etc etc. My understanding so far leads me to believe that by denying our own feelings, in the light that we were supposed to be experiencing something else, “holy name, this experience” we in reality suppressed our emotional body. The consequences as we well know were the break up of so many marriages and relationships, time and time again. Not just because M encouraged us to believe that relationships were of no value, and that it was his treasure that we should be experiencing, but because on another level we were actually not allowed to experience our own true feelings about any given situation.

What does seem to be true is that we are here as human beings with a soul to reconnect with and recognise that soul. To deal with the issues that our soul has to deal with in this lifetime, and to follow our soul’s destiny. We did believe, to some greater or lesser extent, when M came along our soul recognised that its destiny was being shown to us through the K that M was giving us. Some deep part of ourselves knew that, wanted that.

Perhaps M's souls' issue is integrity.

Has M has manipulated this understanding for his own purposes? Followers were not told that the ashrams were closed because Mata Ji did take M to court, she won, and the ashram ordered to be closed, whereupon M created Elan Vital. Any information that is withheld from its followers in order to serve its own hierarchical purpose is deemed as a cult. We have to understand how misinformed we were. That deception has taken place time and time again.

So far not only was our emotional body being suppressed and channelled into M’s world, but our intellectual faculties were being derided constantly as well. In our misunderstanding we began to blame the world, M encouraged us to leave the world behind perhaps the knock on effect in the world has been truly enormous. Intellectually too, we were led to trivialise and adopt an approach that the world was another thing not to be trusted, we became insiders to some secret society of enlightened beings. What in fact we became were outsiders to society, in the same vein that ethnic minorities do not feel as if they fit in, or that drug addicts feel that they do not belong to the world. A state of being which in psychological terms is not producing integrated human behaviour. But even worse, we became outsiders in our own lives. Many P’s are still not integrated into the world, and having problems of dysfunction.

In a society that already runs high on blame, M encouraged us to blame. First and foremost ourselves for “never getting it right”, and then the world for “always getting it wrong.” So we did, we blamed our partners, parents, children and colleagues for not having this K, for not understanding that they needed a Master. We channelled a lot of very strong negative concepts back into the “world” on behalf of M, of course, and love and light and peace. Meanwhile we were never really there for the world, just for M.

Blame culture is destroying our society. The counterbalance to blame is credit, and that is precisely what M never gave us, credit. Always trivialization and denouncement of human values and achievements; ethical behaviour and codes of conduct were relinquished and the “anything goes” attitude became prevalent within the movement. We ceased to believe that Mankind’s history, and the culture of mankind had anything to do with the future; that we might be creating our own destiny that we were responsible human beings, responsible to each other and society as a whole. Coupled with the Thatcher/Reagan era of “there is no such thing as society” we were led all the way to destruction of moral and ethical behaviour within our communities and society as a whole.

In terms of our own personal relationships, what we are left with is not a community that is self-sufficient but a lot of distraught single people who have no way left of being able to interact with the opposite sex without in some way being seen to be “needy.” M created that neediness in us. By continuously suppressing our emotions, our emotional bodies craved emotional contact, when that occurred we were like starved beings who were suddenly let loose at a banquet.

Blame culture enables beings to empower the dysfunction of male/female relationships. People wanting love are deemed to be “needy” and everyone now is supposed to be self-sufficient and not needing to be coupled in the misconception that to be alone is the right way. How much of this resounds of M’s discourses about the way to true enlightenment.

The point that is missing is that men have always needed women to make concrete their ideas, men are creatures of ideas and women are creatures of nurturing. Therefore life has always worked by man being nurtured by women, allowing him to make concrete those ideas, whilst woman has been taken care of by and protected by man for being able to concretise those ideas through her nurture. Nothing new or strange there. A fair and fundamental exchange.

That quick aggressive response so normal in today’s society, is parallel to the quick aggressive response we so often felt and heard at the “lotus feet.” Directed at us was a huge amount of anger sometimes passive, but in order to cope we became more and more and more out of sync with our emotional bodies. Any normal human reaction would have been to get angry back at someone being angry with us, yet what we learnt was to be “nice” really nice, really, really nice. To all sorts of inappropriate situations, in my life I should have reacted differently, but instead had learnt to be “nice” because hey, surely this would lead people to think that we were in peace and love. By being nice my emotional body became completely unbalanced.

If we already had dysfunction to begin with, then the teachings of M amplified that, and what started as a minor groove, became a trench from which we could not see out of, from which we were fighting the world and ourselves. What we had lost at that point was a sense of ourselves.

We do have to function in this world, there is no question of it, as the ashrams were closed there was nowhere to retreat. We wanted to feel comfortable at the time with this dysfunction. As so many people had come out of the love and peace era and were still taking drugs it all seemed to fit together.

At some point I believe that M should have allowed us and K (which remember originally was called self-K) to become integrated in a more holistic and positive way, creating functional people, as in the beginning - the medical house, education house, etc. He had the gift of love and devotion from thousands of people that could have changed the world and yet he chose to conduct his teachings in a way that led to self-glorification and one would imagine self-gratification. He changed from Guru, to Master. We were no longer premies but students. We had been given no choice in his revisions of the movement.

For me the debate is not even about whether M is God or not, it is about the socio-cultural implications that his teachings have had on the lives of his followers, and the extent to which his teachings have been interpreted and misinterpreted and channelled out into society.

What we are experiencing now in socio-cultural terms is the alienation and outlawing of anything that appears to be a cult. This is what is happened in the French incident. Generally because cults have been seen to be destructive, (from Manson, to the cult in Switzerland and their belief in Haley Bopp.) The governments of the world, but in Europe at the moment in particular will not be allowing cults to exist.

In terms of free speech and non-destructive movements with benign intentions, this again poses the question of civil liberties being eroded once more in terms of further stringent control on any form of organisation. One gets this sense from looking at the web, its appears that there are many cult escapees, not just exes, but Jehovahs, Hare krisna’s etc etc etc. All complaining about mind control. Government would appear to promote the corporate identity of normality, hence globalisation, and what appears to be individuality is now an area of questionable debate.

As I recall the very essence of M’s teachings were originally about the individual. What happened. We now see the organisation running around with their clipboards, albeit metaphorical ones, trying to tell the rest of us how it is or should be. At what point did we lose all sense of our own interpretation to our lives, insofar as I now need someone to tell me how it is.

We always fail in the eyes of M, and therefore we have been diminished, sadly many P’s to a point of nothingness, I personally have known 3 P’s who suicided themselves over the years because they thought they couldn’t “get it.” Diminished, for in essence, what was a drip of K.

Even practising made our lives a distant thing. For many that disengagement and denial carries on, therefore making it easier to dismiss everything because hey, “it doesn’t matter it’s only the world.” Yes only the world but this made it even more difficult for us to live in it. Therefore the manipulation was twofold. First we suppressed our emotions by giving everything to M and K, thereby not identifying with what we really did feel and think about our actual reality or the situation that was going on at that point, in favour of making connections, with, to, or by M. Therefore it was a self-fulfilling prophecy our lives did turn upside down, nothing did work because we had not paid our lives any proper attention in the first place. It is what we created ourselves by not responding appropriately in the first place.

Steiner, the well known educationalist wrote as far back as the 20’s that if one were to distract one’s mind from the actual reality of a situation, then a solution would be able to manifest through the Universe. No original thinking there on the wonders of meditation. Jung wrote about synchronicity.

So instead of making healthy connections with situations in our lives, M deliberately disallowed any functional connections to be made, in fact setting out to make sure that nothing of any value lasted from one discourse to the next, therefore always disrupting the process of life itself.

It is an absolute necessity to make connections, personal, within connections of our own sense of ourselves, right through to connections with family, friends, community. Without family we cannot learn how moral behaviour works. Without love we are desperate human beings. It is still what the majority want, is love and be loved. Yet with misinterpretation in the modern world this has become sex. Without codes of behaviour learnt from within the family and that experience of love, then extended outwards, we have the model for society breaking down through lack of purpose, function, humanity.

Without connections we would live in an isolated world of sorrow and malaise, eventually leading to disease – dis-ease. At that point of un-ease we were told it was our fault yet again, M reminded us how incapable we were of getting it right. Yet again told to go inside more, yet again more isolation. Yet again pay our dues to our Master, then our un-ease would be filled with bliss. We never dealt with our un-ease. Neither did M.

M disempowered us time and time again, without his authority we were nothing. Perhaps through his own Indian ignorance, perhaps by not realising the complexity of the Western mind. The level of sophistication that the Western mind had already reached was not so easily dismissable.

M’s ultimate and most powerful weapon was in dismissing our mind and concepts. It is not possible to carry on living without judgement. You have to know how to cross the road, tie your bootlaces, find out how much the shopping costs. Man’s mind has been his greatest asset. Given a moral code of behaviour and ethics, Mankind has made enormous progress from the days of swinging a club and landing a bison. For sure, we understand that man’s mind can be used for evil intentions, but usually through lack. Lack of money, sense, understanding or dysfunction of some more serious kind.

What happened to honour, nobility, hope, courage, perseverance - the vital ingredients of crossing Antarctica, climbing Mount Everest, discovering penicillin, and what indeed is wrong with those aesthetic qualities in mankind. We now have dismissed so many positive human values in favour of greed, opportunity, triumph.

So the Grand Slam. Nothing we ever think is right, its only a concept and nothing we ever feel is true or valid or justifiable in the face of the great experience of K, or more recently should I say the Master. By now subjugated to his every word for guidance, how many of us acted and performed our lives through the mesh of M. His dictum being the only right dictum.

And now the nail that really hammered us into the coffin, the one about K being the Most Important Thing, for those of us old enough to remember that. So we grew up and nothing was more important. Not our minds, concepts, families, emotions, jobs, nothing. This is how he kept people hooked into his world. Ultimately, this is abuse, on a conscious or subconscious level that we plugged into for many years because we believed it was the most important thing. Catch 22.

Inevitably at times of death, ill health and poverty we never were given any straws to grasp that were tangible. Wishy-washy sayings stolen from the Gita that “even in your darkest hour I will always be there.” How far from the truth is that. M could have seen people individually, had smaller events, praised people more, validated their experience, really shared that love if that is what he had. Not much solace in a world by now full of tragic consequences. What happened to benevolence? M never expanded on the spirituality of our souls and allowed us to live in the world as fully integrated beings. Instead by pooh, poohing and trivialising this life, the world as we know it, untold damage to millions of life has been done through his small-minded and greedy way. By using his army of devotees to channel attitudes of lawlessness and unimportance to life in other forms, that were not to do with him and our breath. Attitudes were put out that are just not concurrent with normal human behaviour.

We have over-ridden queues, negated our family life, invalidated everything as mind, put out the wrong code of ethics on mass, to a globe absolutely ripe for a larger dose of darkness, but more cynical, it was all done under the guise of “love and light.”

What began with pushing down the boundaries of the Old Age in the 60’s, ended up with M destroying all the boundaries within ourselves and our lives to a point where many of us have been left without even being able to make a right decision. Slaves to a Master.

Empty, soulless shells that needed their Master to tell them what and how to do it. Hence the organisation. Is this really enlightenment? Did M himself become misguided. For most of us we have woken up and smelt the coffee. Looked at our lives and realised that indeed knowledge never gave us anything to do with our lives in the material world, but for some their material world was already in place, and yet for many their spiritual lives are no richer either. Because they are not experiencing love.

Many have been left unfulfilled, unhappy because of loneliness, debt, ill health. In fact, looking around and seeing that we are normal human beings like everybody else, that what makes us happy is the same as everybody else. LOVE. Solvency, health. The feeling of being loved and giving love and that is what is missing in M’s world now. That two-way exchange of love and energy does make us bigger in our lives. We grow then.

Given that I have a power as a human being to make changes through my own personal choices and understanding. It is vitally important to get it right in my life for me, and for the world as a whole. We are creating our lives, we are creating our future, creating our children’s future. To be exacting, getting the details right without harming myself, to get it right for the common good, to put my family first, to live my life with a set of values and moral ethics in place is right for me.

What I can do now is reintegrate my life. The world is in regression. Economically yes, perhaps socio-culturally as well. Regression is far more sinister than recession

To put my family first, to aid their survival; to stop blaming mother and thereafter all women for all the wrongs in my life. In essence to stop blame culture. M always taught us to blame the world for everything that was wrong, as if we weren’t a part of it.

To really stop and see that we have got the power of healing and good energies flowing through our lives. To stop accepting abuse, to stop and really intend to get the best for our lives, in a proper way, and by proxy that extending out into the planet.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jul 07, 2001 at 14:50:30 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: Would someone email this to charles......nt
Message:

dfghsfg

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Jul 07, 2001 at 02:52:48 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: The post is riddled with both gems and bullshit
Message:

From my experience of old timers, even older than myself and I have had K for 22 years, I can see how those guys were really screwed up by the way the organisation was then, in the way that it treated people who were really, really inspired.

Screwed, yes. Screwed up, no, not necessarily. Small point were it not for the fact that she picks up the theme later with that 'toxic' stuff.

We have been through years of unlimited servitude and servility through years of being pushed around and destroyed on many levels.

To have believed that something was so pure and holy and good all these years and then suddenly find that its all pooh, not pure is a great shock to the system. Even now when I know that I am on the other side of devotion, when I see pictures of Maharaji my heart still wants to believe. Yet with M all my personal nightmares were starting to come true. It is almost as if M switched our whole consciousness around and we went into reverse psychology. Believe the psychologists then, what M did was to make our own humanness toxic to ourselves.

“Toxic” at this point is an appropriate description of what has happened to all those ex’s who are really angry and screaming and shouting on the “toxic” web-sites, for in fact, this is what M has created, through his mind manipulation of the masses. They have nowhere else to go.

My own feeling therefore is that I could be angry, my life too had spun out of my control, but far more constructive is my feeling to try and understand the damage.

Anger here's natural AND constructive. Good, all-purpose cleaner.

We have to be clear and really zipped out and do some healing for ourselves. Without some positive movement we may well continue in stalemate. If what M has is power, and if that power has been in some way extended to the whole world, through us as channels. How responsible then are we for what we have in a society that is based on blame and lawlessness without contention. This is the way in which M has behaved in his belief that he is above and beyond reproach in this life.

The assumption that m has 'power' and her following concerns leave me cold. M has nothing we didn't give him. Nothing.

Leading us into confusion by his revisionist structure. That is, he kept moving the goalposts so that we never knew where we really were. We were never good enough, we’d never get it, etc etc etc. My understanding so far leads me to believe that by denying our own feelings, in the light that we were supposed to be experiencing something else, “holy name, this experience” we in reality suppressed our emotional body. The consequences as we well know were the break up of so many marriages and relationships, time and time again. Not just because M encouraged us to believe that relationships were of no value, and that it was his treasure that we should be experiencing, but because on another level we were actually not allowed to experience our own true feelings about any given situation.

Like so much of what she says, this is all agreeable to me until she gets into new agey ideas like 'emotional body'. Don't buy it, myyself, although I know many of you do.

What does seem to be true is that we are here as human beings with a soul to reconnect with and recognise that soul. To deal with the issues that our soul has to deal with in this lifetime, and to follow our soul’s destiny. We did believe, to some greater or lesser extent, when M came along our soul recognised that its destiny was being shown to us through the K that M was giving us. Some deep part of ourselves knew that, wanted that.

Yeah, right. You KNOW what I think of this stuff. Too new agey by far.

Perhaps M's souls' issue is integrity.

Perhaps he's a fallen angel.

Has M has manipulated this understanding for his own purposes? Followers were not told that the ashrams were closed because Mata Ji did take M to court, she won, and the ashram ordered to be closed, whereupon M created Elan Vital. Any information that is withheld from its followers in order to serve its own hierarchical purpose is deemed as a cult. We have to understand how misinformed we were. That deception has taken place time and time again.

She's got the history wrong. Ashrams were closed long after the legal fight in India.

So far not only was our emotional body being suppressed and channelled into M’s world, but our intellectual faculties were being derided constantly as well. In our misunderstanding we began to blame the world, M encouraged us to leave the world behind perhaps the knock on effect in the world has been truly enormous. Intellectually too, we were led to trivialise and adopt an approach that the world was another thing not to be trusted, we became insiders to some secret society of enlightened beings. What in fact we became were outsiders to society, in the same vein that ethnic minorities do not feel as if they fit in, or that drug addicts feel that they do not belong to the world. A state of being which in psychological terms is not producing integrated human behaviour. But even worse, we became outsiders in our own lives. Many P’s are still not integrated into the world, and having problems of dysfunction.

Not sure about this 'emotional body' and later 'dysfunction' stuff but we were definitely outsiders alright. However, it's not as if we were ever persecuted as such so I don't know how helpful the minorities analogy is. We were smug in our sense of superiority more than anything else.

In a society that already runs high on blame, M encouraged us to blame. First and foremost ourselves for “never getting it right”, and then the world for “always getting it wrong.” So we did, we blamed our partners, parents, children and colleagues for not having this K, for not understanding that they needed a Master. We channelled a lot of very strong negative concepts back into the “world” on behalf of M, of course, and love and light and peace. Meanwhile we were never really there for the world, just for M.

Alright.

Blame culture is destroying our society. The counterbalance to blame is credit, and that is precisely what M never gave us, credit. Always trivialization and denouncement of human values and achievements; ethical behaviour and codes of conduct were relinquished and the “anything goes” attitude became prevalent within the movement. We ceased to believe that Mankind’s history, and the culture of mankind had anything to do with the future; that we might be creating our own destiny that we were responsible human beings, responsible to each other and society as a whole. Coupled with the Thatcher/Reagan era of “there is no such thing as society” we were led all the way to destruction of moral and ethical behaviour within our communities and society as a whole.

Good and true except for the first sentence. What's 'blame culture' and how is it destroying our society? Sounds a little hokey to me. Likewise, what's with this 'there is no society' stuff?

In terms of our own personal relationships, what we are left with is not a community that is self-sufficient but a lot of distraught single people who have no way left of being able to interact with the opposite sex without in some way being seen to be “needy.” M created that neediness in us. By continuously suppressing our emotions, our emotional bodies craved emotional contact, when that occurred we were like starved beings who were suddenly let loose at a banquet.

I thought the whole point of attraction to the opposite sex IS neediness? We ARE needy. Nothing wrong with that. Denying it was the mindfuck.

Blame culture enables beings to empower the dysfunction of male/female relationships. People wanting love are deemed to be “needy” and everyone now is supposed to be self-sufficient and not needing to be coupled in the misconception that to be alone is the right way. How much of this resounds of M’s discourses about the way to true enlightenment.

The point that is missing is that men have always needed women to make concrete their ideas, men are creatures of ideas and women are creatures of nurturing. Therefore life has always worked by man being nurtured by women, allowing him to make concrete those ideas, whilst woman has been taken care of by and protected by man for being able to concretise those ideas through her nurture. Nothing new or strange there. A fair and fundamental exchange.

That quick aggressive response so normal in today’s society, is parallel to the quick aggressive response we so often felt and heard at the “lotus feet.” Directed at us was a huge amount of anger sometimes passive, but in order to cope we became more and more and more out of sync with our emotional bodies. Any normal human reaction would have been to get angry back at someone being angry with us, yet what we learnt was to be “nice” really nice, really, really nice. To all sorts of inappropriate situations, in my life I should have reacted differently, but instead had learnt to be “nice” because hey, surely this would lead people to think that we were in peace and love. By being nice my emotional body became completely unbalanced.

Agree that suppressed emotions can be bad; again, don't know about this 'emotional body' stuff. Where's it come from anyway?

If we already had dysfunction to begin with, then the teachings of M amplified that, and what started as a minor groove, became a trench from which we could not see out of, from which we were fighting the world and ourselves. What we had lost at that point was a sense of ourselves.

We do have to function in this world, there is no question of it, as the ashrams were closed there was nowhere to retreat. We wanted to feel comfortable at the time with this dysfunction. As so many people had come out of the love and peace era and were still taking drugs it all seemed to fit together.

At some point I believe that M should have allowed us and K (which remember originally was called self-K) to become integrated in a more holistic and positive way, creating functional people, as in the beginning - the medical house, education house, etc. He had the gift of love and devotion from thousands of people that could have changed the world and yet he chose to conduct his teachings in a way that led to self-glorification and one would imagine self-gratification. He changed from Guru, to Master. We were no longer premies but students. We had been given no choice in his revisions of the movement.

Not sure what she's talking about here except I must say that K, in its original form, was no more integratable in life, holistically or otherwise, than you'd expect a mind poison to be. And that's what k was, supposedly, the antidote to the mind. In any event, I don't buy any of it so I can't be too concerned about the lost opportunity of integrating K into the world for the benefit of all.

For me the debate is not even about whether M is God or not, it is about the socio-cultural implications that his teachings have had on the lives of his followers, and the extent to which his teachings have been interpreted and misinterpreted and channelled out into society.

Well, this is pretty vague. What is she saying? That m's teachings were good somehow but got corrupted in the interpretation? Hey, anyone that thinks that needs to go read Nas Yog Prakash a bit. It's a severe hindu human sacrifice trip, this K stuff. Either you buy into it or you don't but there aren't too many ways to slice it.

What we are experiencing now in socio-cultural terms is the alienation and outlawing of anything that appears to be a cult. This is what is happened in the French incident. Generally because cults have been seen to be destructive, (from Manson, to the cult in Switzerland and their belief in Haley Bopp.) The governments of the world, but in Europe at the moment in particular will not be allowing cults to exist.

That's a bit of a hasty conclusion, I'd say.

In terms of free speech and non-destructive movements with benign intentions, this again poses the question of civil liberties being eroded once more in terms of further stringent control on any form of organisation. One gets this sense from looking at the web, its appears that there are many cult escapees, not just exes, but Jehovahs, Hare krisna’s etc etc etc. All complaining about mind control. Government would appear to promote the corporate identity of normality, hence globalisation, and what appears to be individuality is now an area of questionable debate.

Sorry, but the more I read this post the more I think this woman's just a little confused. She's got it all mixed in there, the governmental conspiracy to promote 'corporate identity of normality' ... not sure what she's really concerned about here. Is she?

As I recall the very essence of M’s teachings were originally about the individual. What happened. We now see the organisation running around with their clipboards, albeit metaphorical ones, trying to tell the rest of us how it is or should be. At what point did we lose all sense of our own interpretation to our lives, insofar as I now need someone to tell me how it is.

Sorry, the very essence of m's teachings, as I recall, were the transcendence of the individual. But I agree that, any which way you cut it, it's fucked.

We always fail in the eyes of M, and therefore we have been diminished, sadly many P’s to a point of nothingness, I personally have known 3 P’s who suicided themselves over the years because they thought they couldn’t “get it.” Diminished, for in essence, what was a drip of K.

Even practising made our lives a distant thing. For many that disengagement and denial carries on, therefore making it easier to dismiss everything because hey, “it doesn’t matter it’s only the world.” Yes only the world but this made it even more difficult for us to live in it. Therefore the manipulation was twofold. First we suppressed our emotions by giving everything to M and K, thereby not identifying with what we really did feel and think about our actual reality or the situation that was going on at that point, in favour of making connections, with, to, or by M. Therefore it was a self-fulfilling prophecy our lives did turn upside down, nothing did work because we had not paid our lives any proper attention in the first place. It is what we created ourselves by not responding appropriately in the first place.

Agree with all that. Sad.

Steiner, the well known educationalist wrote as far back as the 20’s that if one were to distract one’s mind from the actual reality of a situation, then a solution would be able to manifest through the Universe. No original thinking there on the wonders of meditation. Jung wrote about synchronicity.

Imagine a dinner party with Steiner, Gurdjieff, Ouspensky and Jung. Yes, even Jung. Lots of hot air, fancy shmantzy words and ...what? Nothing? Maybe.

So instead of making healthy connections with situations in our lives, M deliberately disallowed any functional connections to be made, in fact setting out to make sure that nothing of any value lasted from one discourse to the next, therefore always disrupting the process of life itself.

It is an absolute necessity to make connections, personal, within connections of our own sense of ourselves, right through to connections with family, friends, community. Without family we cannot learn how moral behaviour works. Without love we are desperate human beings. It is still what the majority want, is love and be loved. Yet with misinterpretation in the modern world this has become sex. Without codes of behaviour learnt from within the family and that experience of love, then extended outwards, we have the model for society breaking down through lack of purpose, function, humanity.

I don't buy this slam against the modern world as the corruptor of love in favour of sex. Sounds romantic, though, I'll give her that.

The rest of the post is better, especially as she describes the real cost m exacted from us.

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Date: Sat, Jul 07, 2001 at 08:06:27 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: New Age Newspeak 101 for Jim
Message:

''Blame culture'' is the buzz phrase of boomer parents and teachers expressing their regret at having encouraged their brats to express their chagrin at not getting their own way all the time as envy, self-pity and resentment.

''Emotional body'' is a truly ugly expression mixing poetry and anatomy in the vernacular of therapists. It means all the thrills and tingles and feelings the body has when it responds to sensational (in the old meaning) and imaginary stimuli. Why poetry had to be anatomized I don't know. Perhaps it's because we're made out of meat.

As for the rest I don't know that's 102 stuff. The essay was a parson's egg.

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Date: Sat, Jul 07, 2001 at 07:36:45 (GMT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: agree somewhat-yer valid points. still potent (nt
Message:

nt

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Date: Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 23:30:10 (GMT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: An arrow through the heart of darkness...
Message:

...shot by an old trooper . Thanks for that one ggg.

Pat Dorrity

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Date: Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 23:18:08 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: She's still believing the PR on this point though
Message:

GoodyGoody Girl said:
“Toxic” at this point is an appropriate description of what has happened to all those ex’s who are really angry and screaming and shouting on the “toxic” web-sites, for in fact, this is what M has created, through his mind manipulation of the masses. They have nowhere else to go.

I think that some newly minted exes are getting some toxics out of there system, but to brand the entire Forum (what else could she be referring to besides FV and AG) toxic, she's obviously convinced herself this is a terrible place for a mind to waste.

Toxic websites? Hate club?

And she says that: They have nowhere else to go. as if coming to FV was a fate worse than death, a court of last resort. I know I am nitpicking, but everyone was getting a bit overenamored of the post. (Nitpicker: that's my JOB.)

I hope GoodyGoody Girl can quit listening to the PR and come on over to FV, but, truth be told she's doing a good job right where she is. If she gets too friendly with us, the 'Lifes a Foot' crowd will brand her as a member of the hate club, not worth listening to.

--f

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Date: Sat, Jul 07, 2001 at 01:28:31 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: To tell you the truth, Francesca ...
Message:

I have found this forum to be pretty toxic at times. I wish goodygoodygirl would post here too, but I didn't urge her to, because I know that some of the people here would object to at least some of the things she said in that post.

Anyway, I understand why she said that.

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Date: Sat, Jul 07, 2001 at 04:00:48 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: I think Lifes Great is pretty toxic
Message:

But different strokes for different folks. I'm glad it exists, however. Whenever I've lurked there I've heard such horrible things about FV that I've gotten pretty disgusted with it.

In broad brushing this a 'hate club,' they've created one of their own. Usually works that way, doesn't it?

I do like the idea of less personal attacks though.

bests, f

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Date: Sat, Jul 07, 2001 at 15:58:46 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: I think Lifes Great is pretty toxic
Message:

Well, at least half of the people posting there now are EX-premies :).

Seriously, I think some premies have fixed ideas about Forum 5 being a 'hate club' or 'hate group', and won't change them no matter what. But others do not, and are honest about their feelings about what they see here, and are willing to discuss them.

I generally don't read, or am not bothered by, the satsang over there. It IS a premie forum, after all. I AM glad that there is a place where premies can post what they think and feel and communicate with each other. They used to do it a bit on Forum5 (in a previous incarnation), but obviously that is not possible now.

Love to you, f -
Katie

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Date: Sat, Jul 07, 2001 at 20:07:22 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: I'm glad LG exists, no doubt
Message:

And you're right that there are more exes posting there than before. I also agree that we're not going to change their minds, and some of them (like Carlos) actually said some good things about the posters here along with his criticisms, so he obviously lurks enough.

And even Catweasel did not paint every poster on FV with a broad brush. The cross polination won't hurt.

I guess I'm just sick of the subject, but I'm glad Forum V is here, especially after reading Michael Dettmers post (above) that was posted by Nige. Even Dettmers did a 180 after he thought he'd 'moved on.' We never totally move on. Everything we ever did is a part of us, paradigm shifts, evolution and all that. I like Richard's analogy above of running off to join the circus (M & K) and ending up with a neat tattoo, and a story to tell.

Becoming a part of the whole thing was not the worst thing that could have happened to me, and at least the whole trip was out in the open then, not like now.

love, f

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Date: Sat, Jul 07, 2001 at 17:22:35 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: What a crock of shit, Katie!
Message:

I AM glad that there is a place where premies can post what they think and feel and communicate with each other. They used to do it a bit on Forum5 (in a previous incarnation), but obviously that is not possible now.

This is such bullshit. The only thing that's changed over time is that the case against m, evidence-wise, has gotten stronger. Former PAMs coming forward with stunning disclosure, m's cowardly lies in response, more quotes and archival stuff and all of the excellent analysis from the ever-increasing number of smart, thinking exes, has all made it that much harder for premies to 'represent' for m here.

It's ridiculous to see you wringing your hands for a time when there wasn't as much evidence and the premies could lie better accordingly. You make it sound as if we've cut off their honest expression somehow. That's crazy.

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Date: Sat, Jul 07, 2001 at 05:49:01 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: stonor21@hotmail.com
To: Francesca
Subject: I think Lifes Great is pretty toxic
Message:

I agree with both you and Katie ... remember that 'Certs' ad? There are parallels, but Francesca, LG used to be a place where we could work things out in relative private. It was really helpful for me to work out a misunderstanding there, and I know Katie knows exactly what I'm referring to. Recently it has become decidedly polarized, but before then, as PatC learned, it was mostly exes and non-anythings, and before then, who knows what. It's quite fascinating how fluid it all is, and how important each of our voices is in each context, even if it isn't apparent to us at the time.

And why is it always premies and ex-premies ... when do premies and exes become part of humanity in general again? Isn't that the point that Katie is trying to make at times? That is what is 'toxic' for me, this 'us' and 'them' stuff, and I think it is for most human beings, if they get a chance to think about it.

Much love to you Francesca, I've enjoyed reading your posts, and talking to you a couple of times. I've posted my email address above, in case you ever land in Montreal.

Anna

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Date: Sat, Jul 07, 2001 at 20:02:31 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: notinherent@yahoo.com
To: Stonor
Subject: As long as the topic has to be M and K
Message:

It will always be premie and expremie unforunately. Which is why I'll probably be spending a lot less time on this Forum. Kinda sicka the subject! I don't like the us and them, and I can socialize perfectly well with the few premies I still am very close to, but we don't get right in the middle of the K and M thing. Here or on Lifes Great, it's unavoidable, as that's the subject.

Thanks for the e-mail, mine's above as well.

love, f

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Date: Sun, Jul 08, 2001 at 02:16:39 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: Yes and no.
Message:

It wasn't always like this here. Last year there were a lot more interesting 'ot' threads, which is one reason why I got more involved than I might have. PatC mentioned when he 'broke free' that it was some of the OT stuff that helped him to do so. It's been sad for me to see a lot of the less 'narrow-minded' people leave over the last 6 - 8 months or so ... usually because they got sick of the high level of overt-aggression. It's sad to me because I really feel that a less intimidating atmosphere would be more conducive for many more to leave the cult, especially those who are already borderline. You could try doing more selective reading and posting, as I've generally been doing for the last 6 months. People used to post some great links here, too. I don't see much of that at all anymore.

Thanks for the e-mail! I don't have much time or money for travel since I started paying a mortgage etc., but you never know! And if you come across something interesting on the web, I'd love to hear about it!

Anna :)

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Date: Sun, Jul 08, 2001 at 04:53:49 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Tell us why your opinion should matter
Message:

You are not a premie. You never were a premie. You're not married to a premie. Your parents aren't premies. Your kids aren't premies. Why the fuck should anyoen give a shit about anything you say? What in the world are you even doing<> here?

Listen, what you're calling 'narrow-minded' some see as discriminating. There's a new age swamp in these here environs, Stonor. Some like to stay on the catwalk above it, some like to swim in it. The thread with miraclelurker proves that in spades.

If you're just looking for OT shit to talk about, go somewhere where those T's aren't so O or something. But don't start your stupid bullshit here all over again. This place is not for you in any sense of the word. None.

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Date: Sun, Jul 08, 2001 at 14:37:37 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Why should there be any need? And who is 'us'?
Message:

Did I mention your name Jim? Why do you take my post to Francesca so personally?

I'm not on trial here, Jim, but you've tried to put me into this 'mock turtle crap' soon after I first arrived. That's the one thing you seem to share with most premies - this particular form of 'xenophobia'. Remember Mike Fronke? Of course you do, but like many premies, you seem to have a selective memory, and to be quite adept at putting your own 'spin' on things.

Again, for the record and in case Francesca doesn't know ... blame it on Mili

Having fun with your private e-mail trashing of me? And don't you love that Mr. Bongo-List going bongo again? This particular discussion with you is over at my end, Mr. Advocate of Free Speech and Transparency. I have better things to do than re-hash this old shit ... don't you?

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Date: Sun, Jul 08, 2001 at 18:03:56 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Stonor -- I'm glad to have you here
Message:

Telling someone who isn't giving us 'satsang' that they don't belong here only reinforces the criticisms that premies have of us. And yes, I'm going to be very selective in my reading and posting. This endless debate, where personal ideas that people put on here get picked to threads is sickening me.

But people are coming from all sorts of orientations here, even the ones picking things apart. I get tired of it though. Sorry, Jim, but I do. These endless battles have me wanting to spend much less time here than I do.

Jim is right though in that, never having been a premie, the OT stuff would be of more interest to you, where you can just interact with the folks here. It's starting to interest me more as well. :-O) I'm sick of the main topic of FV, and that's no one's fault I suppose, because that's the purpose of the board.

love, f

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Date: Sun, Jul 08, 2001 at 22:42:50 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: Thanks Francesca.
Message:

At this point I am definitely more interested in the OT, but it wasn't that way at all at the beginning, and he still wasn't happy. Oh well. I was once told to just not read the posts of people I don't get along with, but just reading the 'Subjects' would often upset me, even if they weren't aimed at me, and especially if they were aimed at someone I knew and cared about. And I did try not to get involved in discussions I didn't know much about first hand, or when it didn't seem appropriate for a 'non-anything'.

Would write more, but I'm feeling a little burnt out right now. (Another big reason why I don't post as much as I used to! ;)

Hope we get to chat again sometime soon!

Big hug to you,

Anna

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Date: Sun, Jul 08, 2001 at 17:55:33 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: And who is 'us'? See my post to you above re
Message:

your relevance on FV.

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Date: Sun, Jul 08, 2001 at 21:54:45 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Try speaking for yourself sometime, Pat, ...
Message:

it's usually safer. And your personal opinion about my relevance here, even if shared with a handful of others, is of little relevance to me.

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Date: Sat, Jul 07, 2001 at 05:00:32 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: Lifes Great is toxic - like an overdose of sugar
Message:

I quite enjoy the anti-FV stuff. It's the ''my inner experience'' treacle I can't stomach.

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Date: Sat, Jul 07, 2001 at 07:42:14 (GMT)
From: such
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: saccharin+olestra!Warning:may cause analleakage(nt
Message:

nt

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Date: Sat, Jul 07, 2001 at 07:41:05 (GMT)
From: nt
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: saccharin+olestra!Warning:may cause analleakage(nt
Message:

nt

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Date: Sat, Jul 07, 2001 at 00:03:56 (GMT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: My thoughts exactly...
Message:

Yes, at first I thought it was a bongo letter but then it gathered steam and took off in some interesting directions.

Her hostility towards this forum could be real...the voices here are more humourous to us then to someone who has not yet come to terms. Perhaps she'll see us in a different light when the pain subsides. She has to heal for awhile.

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Date: Sun, Jul 08, 2001 at 20:03:04 (GMT)
From: Goodygoodygirl
Email: not provided
To: Deborah
Subject: Well not exactly . . .
Message:

How those that agreed got the point and those that didn't get it, just didn't get it.

Because they aren't capable of getting the bigger picture even when its presented to them.

And anyway Deborah, how can you assume to know whether I am ex, a pwk or alien, and since when DONT WE ALL need healing.

You're assuming just because I posted on Life's Great da da da . . .

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Date: Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 20:36:26 (GMT)
From: Bingo, GoodyGoodyGirl
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: Incredible post from Life is Great--a MUST READ
Message:

Last night I wandered into the nether regions of my Dish network, where I usually never go, and I saw displayed on the Guide the words 'Elan Vital.' I clicked on it, and discovered that I had just tuned into the beginning of Maharaji's talk in Portland. After getting over the shock of how much Maharaji looked like Chairman Mao (his hair was poofed out to the sides like Chairman Mao's used to be), and after a few moments of mental dithering about whether I really wanted to watch/listen to Maharaji, I decided to go for it and pay real attention with as much dispassion as I could muster.

GoodyGoodyGirl brilliantly articulates exactly what I was feeling, but which I couldn't quite yet articulate. I was intrigued by the subtle cues, the hand gestures, the coy smiles, the changes in the tone and timbre of his voice which Maharaji used to elicit a response from the crowd. The content of his discourse was devoid of meaning, with him going on about coffee, and the many forms it now comes in, and how coffee is now trendy.

He then segued into how the breath is not trendy, and how it never makes it to the 'list of bests' and how our breath is number one. I could go on dissecting what Maharaji said, but the real fascination for me was his cues and the audience's response to his cues. As I logged onto this train of thought, it felt like I was watching a performance of 'call and response', not unlike Pavlov's dog.

Even more fascinating, though, was exactly what GoodyGoodyGirl so clearly stated: that Maharaji presents the world to us in a manner that would make one not really want to have anything to do with it, and that the only thing worth pursuing is him (as Master). At its worst, he inverts reality, crippling us from taking ourselves and the 'world' seriously, particularly in regard to positive actions which would benefit us, personally and societally.

I could elaborate more, but I think Goody's cogent post says it all so eloquently.

(I'm still surprised, though, at how much he looked like Chairman Mao. Perhaps he's morphed into Maoraji?)

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Date: Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 20:38:28 (GMT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: Bingo, GoodyGoodyGirl
Subject: The abv was from me...I screwed up the fields..nt
Message:

m

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Date: Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 20:30:45 (GMT)
From: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: Disculta
Subject: Thank you GoodyGoody Girl
Message:

I had someone point your post out to me, but kept forgetting to read it when I was over on LG.

If you contact me and allow it, I would love to host it somewhere on EPO. There are people out there who feel or have felt what you've just shared with total strangers, but who have never seen it put into words as well as you just described it. I know that I'm one of them.

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Date: Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 22:04:11 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Thank you GoodyGoody Girl ****Best of Forum****
Message:

Don't worry, you'll be saved ......

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Date: Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 23:55:37 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: ***YES, this one's a RINGER***----------n/t
Message:

n/t

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Date: Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 19:57:13 (GMT)
From: Carl
Email: None
To: so-called Maharaji
Subject: Also, Prempal Rawat : READ THIS POST!
Message:

Is your conscience clear?

What are you going to do now?

C.

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Date: Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 19:49:14 (GMT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: some potent sections! Everyone,please read thread
Message:

POWERFUL EXCERPTS:

'In a society that already runs high on blame, M encouraged us to blame. First and foremost ourselves for “never getting it right”, and then the world for “always getting it wrong.” So we did, we blamed our partners, parents, children and colleagues for not having this K, for not understanding that they needed a Master. We channelled a lot of very strong negative concepts back into the “world” on behalf of M, of course, and love and light and peace. Meanwhile we were never really there for the world, just for M.

He had the gift of love and devotion from thousands of people that could have changed the world and yet he chose to conduct his teachings in a way that led to self-glorification and one would imagine self-gratification.

We always fail in the eyes of M, and therefore we have been diminished, sadly many P’s to a point of nothingness, I personally have known 3 P’s who suicided themselves over the years because they thought they couldn’t “get it.” Diminished, for in essence, what was a drip of K.

M disempowered us time and time again, without his authority we were nothing.

Nothing we ever think is right, its only a concept and nothing we ever feel is true or valid or justifiable in the face of the great experience of K, or more recently should I say the Master. By now subjugated to his every word for guidance, how many of us acted and performed our lives through the mesh of M. His dictum being the only right dictum.

What happened to benevolence? M never expanded on the spirituality of our souls and allowed us to live in the world as fully integrated beings. Instead by pooh, poohing and trivialising this life, the world as we know it, untold damage to millions of life has been done through his small-minded and greedy way.

We have over-ridden queues, negated our family life, invalidated everything as mind, put out the wrong code of ethics on mass, to a globe absolutely ripe for a larger dose of darkness, but more cynical, it was all done under the guise of “love and light.”
What began with pushing down the boundaries of the Old Age in the 60’s, ended up with M destroying all the boundaries within ourselves and our lives to a point where many of us have been left without even being able to make a right decision. Slaves to a Master.
Empty, soulless shells that needed their Master to tell them what and how to do it. Hence the organisation. Is this really enlightenment? Did M himself become misguided. For most of us we have woken up and smelt the coffee. Looked at our lives and realised that indeed knowledge never gave us anything to do with our lives in the material world, but for some their material world was already in place, and yet for many their spiritual lives are no richer either. Because they are not experiencing love.

LOVE. Solvency, health. The feeling of being loved and giving love and that is what is missing in M’s world now. That two-way exchange of love and energy does make us bigger in our lives. We grow then.

M always taught us to blame the world for everything that was wrong, as if we weren’t a part of it.
To really stop and see that we have got the power of healing and good energies flowing through our lives. To stop accepting abuse, to stop and really intend to get the best for our lives, in a proper way, and by proxy that extending out into the planet.

M told us we were individuals, and then proceeded to stop us having our own thoughts and growth. What we experienced was a lack of individuation. A child at age 3-5 experiences individuation from its mother. That is existing outside of her as an individual in its own right. M took us to a point of not allowing us to be ourselves, everything was satsang, service and meditation to him. For me now I have to grow up, separate, find out who I am. Experience my emotions, validate my experience, stop having spiritual concepts, but more spirituality, trust my instincts, make those connections, live life without fear and enjoy being human.'

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Date: Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 19:20:49 (GMT)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: Incredible post from Life is Great 91 more words
Message:

M told us we were individuals, and then proceeded to stop us having our own thoughts and growth. What we experienced was a lack of individuation. A child at age 3-5 experiences individuation from its mother. That is existing outside of her as an individual in its own right. M took us to a point of not allowing us to be ourselves, everything was satsang, service and meditation to him. For me now I have to grow up, separate, find out who I am. Experience my emotions, validate my experience, stop having spiritual concepts, but more spirituality, trust my instincts, make those connections, live life without fear and enjoy being human.

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Date: Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 19:41:53 (GMT)
From: Daisy
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: Incredible post from Life is Great 91 more words
Message:

Would you please post the address for Life's Great? I can't find it. Also the recent Charles site if you have it. Thanks.

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Date: Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 20:32:10 (GMT)
From: Forum Admin
Email: None
To: Daisy
Subject: *** ALL LINKS ARE ABOVE ***
Message:

Just click on 'Other Forums & Sites' at the top of this page and you'll find Lifes Great and more than you probably want.

Forum Admin

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Date: Sat, Jul 07, 2001 at 06:53:54 (GMT)
From: Brian
Email: None
To: Forum Admin
Subject: [silent chuckles] nt
Message:

x

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Date: Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 19:52:07 (GMT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Daisy
Subject: here's the link: cut 'n paste to address. (nt
Message:

http://www.hotboards.com/plus/plus.mirage?who=premieforum&all=yes

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Date: Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 19:53:13 (GMT)
From: such
Email: None
To: such
Subject: http://www.hotboards.com/plus/plus.mirage?who=prem
Message:

http://www.hotboards.com/plus/plus.mirage?who=premieforum&all=yes

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