Jim Sander (posted by FA) -:- Open letters to EV/Chapel Hill/Durham NC community -:- Sat, Mar 31, 2001 at 20:31:31 (GMT)

__ Jim Sander (posted by FA) -:- Open letter to Chapel Hill/Durham NC community -:- Sat, Mar 31, 2001 at 20:35:05 (GMT)

__ __ Jim Sander (posted by FA) -:- First Letter to Elan Vital -:- Sat, Mar 31, 2001 at 20:45:03 (GMT)

__ __ __ Jim Sander (posted by FA) -:- Elan Vital's Reply -:- Sat, Mar 31, 2001 at 20:49:32 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Joe -:- Excellent -- agree should be permanent on site -:- Mon, Apr 02, 2001 at 20:18:54 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Nigel -:- Brilliant, Jim! EV evasions = tacit admission? nt -:- Sun, Apr 01, 2001 at 16:46:56 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ janet -:- Elan Vital's Reply -:- Sun, Apr 01, 2001 at 11:32:33 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Mark -:- Elan Vital's Reply -:- Sun, Apr 01, 2001 at 09:24:03 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Michael Dettmers -:- Great work Jim (nt) -:- Sun, Apr 01, 2001 at 04:30:44 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Dear Kathie Thomas -:- Sun, Apr 01, 2001 at 03:49:07 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Sandy -:- This reads like a letter from my Congressman -:- Sat, Mar 31, 2001 at 23:41:28 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Jim Sander (posted by FA) -:- Second Letter to Elan Vital -:- Sat, Mar 31, 2001 at 20:56:48 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Respect Jim. -:- Sun, Apr 01, 2001 at 11:26:32 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Richard -:- Excellent JS! - I'm curious, when you ran into.. -:- Mon, Apr 02, 2001 at 04:51:55 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Kelly -:- Thanks Jim Sander, great letters, wonderful work. -:- Sun, Apr 01, 2001 at 09:49:16 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ scottc. -:- Second Letter to Elan Vital -:- Sun, Apr 01, 2001 at 03:50:04 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- I second that scott - thank you Jim Sander -:- Sun, Apr 01, 2001 at 05:32:43 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Gary E. -:- Letters to Chapel Hill Community and EV -:- Sun, Apr 01, 2001 at 04:33:57 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Connie -:- Thank you, Jim, powerful, honest letters -:- Sun, Apr 01, 2001 at 01:06:20 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Brian Smith -:- This is some of the best info that has ever been -:- Sun, Apr 01, 2001 at 00:08:05 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- Second Letter to Elan Vital -:- Sat, Mar 31, 2001 at 22:25:35 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Brian -:- EV's lack of denial of 'allegations' -:- Sat, Mar 31, 2001 at 21:52:14 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Alan Fenstermacher -:- EV's lack of denial of 'allegations' -:- Sat, Mar 31, 2001 at 23:28:58 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie H -:- I agree, Alan -:- Sat, Mar 31, 2001 at 23:45:36 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Form letter - 1000s got the same one NT -:- Sun, Apr 01, 2001 at 00:56:00 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Brian -:- Duping the duped -:- Sun, Apr 01, 2001 at 01:57:10 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie H -:- Did you get one, Pat? (nt) -:- Sun, Apr 01, 2001 at 01:01:51 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon - I wish you -:- No, I did not have the patience to write to them -:- Sun, Apr 01, 2001 at 02:19:41 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- If I write to EV will they... -:- Sun, Apr 01, 2001 at 11:37:36 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Oh Anth, you always catch my syntax errors -:- Sun, Apr 01, 2001 at 18:41:47 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ aoaji -:- Oh Anth, you always catch my syntax errors -:- Sun, Apr 01, 2001 at 19:06:24 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Nice song - My sad guru looks like 'Divine' -:- Sun, Apr 01, 2001 at 23:35:53 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Kelly -:- Oh Anth, you always catch my syntax errors -:- Sun, Apr 01, 2001 at 19:50:38 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ a0aji -:- Oh Anth, you always catch my syntax errors -:- Mon, Apr 02, 2001 at 04:58:22 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie H. -:- Thanks -:- Sun, Apr 01, 2001 at 02:24:06 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Oops. sorry Katie the ''I wish you...' -:- Sun, Apr 01, 2001 at 05:24:44 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Absolutely wonderful work, Jim! -:- Sat, Mar 31, 2001 at 21:08:34 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Forum Admin -:- Thank you, Jim, and *** Best Of *** -:- Sat, Mar 31, 2001 at 21:00:14 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Francesca -:- Good call, FA -- I third the motion n/t -:- Sun, Apr 01, 2001 at 06:50:42 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Mark -:- Good call, FA ! First page stuff !(nt) -:- Sun, Apr 01, 2001 at 09:35:20 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Helen -:- Thank you, Jim, and *** Best Of *** -:- Sat, Mar 31, 2001 at 22:14:24 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie H. -:- Definitely 'best of', IMHO, and -:- Sat, Mar 31, 2001 at 22:49:17 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- and so say all of us!(us silent majority types) nt -:- Tues, Apr 03, 2001 at 18:15:23 (GMT)

Date: Sat, Mar 31, 2001 at 20:31:31 (GMT) From: Jim Sander (posted by FA) Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Open letters to EV/Chapel Hill/Durham NC community Message:

Jim has asked me to post the following exchange he has had with EV, and his open letter to his community. The first is an introduction from Jim. Forum Admin. --------------------------------------------------- Hello- My name is Jim Sander and I live in the Chapel Hill area of NC. I am sending these letters out today because my conscience compels me to. Four letters are included: The first two were sent out on Jan.1, 2001-one to the local community, and one to EV. The third letter is a reply from EV on Feb. 5, in response to my first letter. The fourth is my second letter to EV. They have not responded in any way to it, after numerous phone calls and e-mails. It is because of this evasiveness, that I send these out today. In my opinion, the word 'consciousness' has been used for a long time, while at times taking a back seat to the word 'conscience'. I think that 'conscience' should be included in the dialogue as well. Clearly, something is wrong here. Something is very wrong, and it needs to be addressed in an honest, ethical and timely manner. Both sides need to reflect, take a deep breath, and then begin some sort of process to sort out the truth. I believe if this does not happen soon, things will only get worse, and that is not something that I personally want to see. Clearly, maharaji and ev have many questions to answer. I suggest that the critics pose all their questions and criticisms in a civil manner, and that maharaji himself address them, face to face with representatives of the critics, and videotape the session. Visions should make it widely available, so that everyone can finally know the truth, and begin the process to set some of this discord behind them. I have been told by people from both sides that this is extremely unlikely, yet I believe that anything short of a full accounting will not work, and may actually make the situation far worse. This is obviously happening now. The time for honest and bold actions is here. Can we all do what is necessary, so that some sort of reconciliation and healing can possibly take place? Sincerely, Jim Sander Chapel Hill, NC

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Date: Sat, Mar 31, 2001 at 20:35:05 (GMT) From: Jim Sander (posted by FA) Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Open letter to Chapel Hill/Durham NC community Message:

Dear friends: I hope this holiday season finds you in good health and good spirits as well. I am writing this letter to you today, not because it is easy, but because I feel it necessary to do so. We all share a common involvement with maharaji and the organizations around him. I feel that because of this, it is important to know who and what we are representing. The purpose of this letter is to address some of the many allegations about maharaji that have been made recently. Most, but not all, have been made on the internet. These statements have the potential to be embarrassing and damaging to any of us. It is for this reason that I am writing to you. I will no longer be hosting the videos at my house as a result of what I have discovered. For years I have suspected that many things were withheld from us, and I am now quite sure of it. For myself, I cannot afford to have my name, reputation or standing in the larger community be potentially damaged by my personally sponsoring and encouraging these events in my home. While I am not telling anyone else in the community what to do in this regard, I do strongly recommend that all of us simply find out the truth and accept it. I originally was going to send this letter to only the people who have come to my house for videos. On second thought, I realized that most of you have been to my house at least once, so I have decided to send it to everyone in the community. You may already know some of these things in the letter to EV, or like me, be totally new to all of them. This may be disturbing to discover, but I feel that we have both a need and a right to know these facts, as they may directly or indirectly affect our daily lives. My personal opinion is that we should always know the truth about the things we are involved in, rather than live in denial. While not always comfortable or easy, I feel that it is ultimately the best way to live. Finally, please don’t shoot the messenger (me). I know most of you quite well, or to some degree at least, and generally have warm feelings about you and most of the dealings we have had over the years. A hug, or a hello would be fine when we run across each other publicly, rather than an icy stare (this winter’s cold enough already). If you want to communicate further, I am always available and genuinely appreciate everyone’s friendship. I urge all of you to reflect on these things deeply and deliberately, and follow the dictates of your own conscience. Sincerely, Jim Sander

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Date: Sat, Mar 31, 2001 at 20:45:03 (GMT) From: Jim Sander (posted by FA) Email: None To: Everyone Subject: First Letter to Elan Vital Message:

To whom it may concern at elan vital: I am writing to you in regard to some of the many allegations that have been made about maharaji’s work and personal life on the internet. As you know, most of the sites that contain questions or criticisms of maharaji were shut down by him and the ev attorneys for a few days, but were quickly online again. My questions to you revolve around allegations made there, and how these allegations affect us, the long time supporters of maharaji. I have been involved with maharaji’s work for over 28 years, in many ways both large and small, in different communities,ashrams,cities and countries since 1972. I started one community in 1974 that grew to over 15 people. Most of those people are still active today. Over a dozen people have received knowledge from my initial introduction of knowledge to them. I have led aspirant teams in a large city, been to almost every program and festival that has ever happened in the US, and contributed, through donations and work-efforts, hundreds of thousands of dollars to his work. I have worked for almost 20 years in 2 companies that were owned or operated by maharaji. Locally, I started the effort to find a hall and finance it through monthly donations from local premies. I state these things not to brag, but simply to tell you a bit about the length and extent of my involvement. I have become increasingly disturbed by these reports, especially since they come from people that I have known personally for decades and would categorize as honest and reliable sources. I have listened carefully to their stories and believe what they are relating is accurate and true; namely that there is a 'shadow' side to the maharaji/knowledge story that very few people know. This is not made public, and is in fact covered up. The more I hear, the more I believe that we all should know whether or not these stories are true. I have always believed that the moral and ethical dimension in one’s life should play an important and integral part in their spiritual life. I don’t think that one can progress on any path without a strong moral compass. In other words, one must 'walk the talk', especially a teacher, who is generally regarded as an example or model for students. If what I read is true, and I increasingly believe it is, maharaji’s life and behavior do not seem to reflect the life of peace, harmony, tranquility or fulfillment that he has always said would result from practicing knowledge and following him. I would like to know if the following things that are alleged about maharaji are true: 1-for years he has had a severe drinking problem and is addicted to cigarettes as well. In the words of one top aide, close to him for over 10 years, maharaji was either 'inebriated or out and out drunk' for an average of 5 days per week, for years and years. This was not a periodic episode, but something that has gone on for years. This has also been reported by other followers who lived in close proximity and served him for years. 2-he has had numerous affairs with female followers. One of the aides who procured women for him has spoken quite candidly about this. Many have been used and hurt, at least one has had an abortion(s). 3-he has had a full time mistress for about the last 15 years. Does this accurately reflect the videos we have been sent from visions that have portrayed him as a 'family man'? 4-he supplied drugs and alcohol (the X-materials, as he called them) for parties in the 1970’s and 1980’s. He would encourage and participate in their use. While publicly lecturing against these things, he actually received civic awards commending him on helping young people escape the dangers of the drug culture. Premies were carefully screened (X-rated, his term) before being allowed to participate, and were required to pledge to never talk about it to anyone. He pressured all less favored premies to surrender their lives to him in the ashram in an environment that strictly forbid these activities. 5-he has a watch collection that is worth millions of dollars. 6-he has dozens of expensive cars around the world, worth millions of dollars. 7-he has an 8 million dollar yacht on the east coast (this is in addition to the 20 million dollar mansion and 25 million dollar GV jet that most people know about). Is this for propagation? Do our donations finance this? If so, do premies know about it? 8-he states on his website that he has never presented himself as the 'perfect master' or a 'messianic figure' nor wanted to be worshipped as such, even though numerous written periodicals and photographs remain from the early years that flatly contradict this. These are available to view on the internet, and create a huge credibility gap between what he said then and what he says now. How do we deal with these obvious discrepancies that he has created? He recently blamed the 'concepts' about him on the mahatmas and original Indian devotees, but it was maharaji who gave the discourses that contained these concepts. Once again, one can see on the internet statements such as 'satguru forgives sins', 'just give me the reigns and let me rule (the world)', 'the highest manifestation of god is guru', 'guru is greater than god', 'guru maharaji comes, or god comes into this world..'etc. etc. He made these statements. He now claims on his website that he never made statements that reflect these beliefs. Shouldn’t he explain this? I can’t. Can you? 9-he has hidden anything about the mahatma jagdeo/sexual abuse incident.. In particular, did he know that jagdeo had sexually abused children, and did nothing to stop him? It is alleged that he knew about this in the US in the 1970’s, and as a result of his deliberate inaction, it happened again in England, with far more serious consequences to the children. These children are now grown adults and are speaking out about this. I have heard their stories. I believe they are telling the truth. This is particularly disturbing to me, as I have worked with abused children for 7 years as a special educator and counselor, and know full well the devastating effects that these actions have on children. They never fully recover, are scarred for life, and their predators generally don’t change. I have previously written you about this, informing you of the disturbing circumstantial evidence in the jagdeo situation that I personally knew of from involvement in the Unity School program in the summer of 1977 and 1978. I have talked with one person who did security around jagdeo in that period, and his account adds credibility to the story. Unfortunately, you have not responded in any way since I contacted you well over a month ago. This disappoints me greatly, and I wonder if your intent is to find the truth and have justice served, or is it to stall, cover up and protect maharaji? I remember many of these children. I have watched them grow up and I remain long time friends with some of their parents, who respected me as their child’s teacher, and entrusted their child with me and the other Unity school educators. There are numerous other incidents, such as the recent letter from fakiranannd concerning his assault on Pat Halley and who ordered it. Michael Dettmers reports about the 'hit and run' incident in India, the procurement of women for maharaji, and his unhappiness in general. These stories, if true, present a very different and unsavory picture of life around maharaji. I would like to know if any or all of these statements are true. I believe that maharaji and ev owe a response to the thousands of people all over the world who have sacrificed many aspects of their lives to contribute to his work. Don’t we have a right to know if our time, energy, love and money are being used to finance activities such as these? Do we have the moral right to bring new people into this, without telling them these things, that if true, they will likely find offensive, immoral and unacceptable behavior in someone who would be their master? If these allegations are true, do you see how you (the organizational people representing maharaji) are being used to 'set up' the very people (those of us with knowledge) that you want to be the base of support and contributions for the future? And we, in turn, are being used to 'set up' the new people? If supporters, such as myself, and other people in various communities around the country, go out into their communities and actively recruit people into this (propagation), and then find out from these new people we have brought in, that these allegations are true, how angry will we be? How angry and deceived will the new people feel? How embarrassing will this be for all of us? Won’t we all feel manipulated? What if someone’s community standing or employment suffers from this? I have heard Yorum Weiss and David Mankoff on phone feeds asking people with knowledge to donate stocks, tax free, to maharaji, as well as ask their corporate employers to donate 'matching funds' to elan vital, because it is a charitable entity. What would these corporate employers think about their employees request once they saw some of the things on these sites? What would they do? A few years ago I asked maharaji at his home in Malibu if there was anything I could do for him. He replied that I could show the new satellite feeds as they became available in peoples homes. I was excited about the opportunity, as I agreed with him that it was time for the message to go into people’s living rooms and out of the community halls, which in my opinion, were not always the best place to bring new people to. I eagerly returned home and within a few months was hosting video feeds, with at times up to 28 people in my home. People came to this warm, friendly environment and many of them personally told me that they and the people they brought would not go to the community hall or a hotel, but felt comfortable here. Over a dozen new people came to these satellite feeds. I have invited neighbors, friends and business associates to these events. I now feel that I have been used and manipulated. Would anyone who has heard these allegations want to ever become involved in any way with a teacher or group like this? One of the new people has seen the EPO site and asked me about it. What do you think he thinks about me? Could a teacher (although I don’t teach anymore, there are 3 in this community) be fired or sued if they told a student about maharaji, brought them to videos and encouraged them to receive knowledge? In my opinion, there is one obvious solution to all of this. Maharaji needs to address these allegations that are made about him. If they are untrue, we need to confront those who have made them, and have them explain them or retract them. If they are true, he needs to explain them, so that we don’t get hurt. An honest response, although painful and potentially embarrassing, would actually help him in the long run. I feel that most people believe that 'honesty is the best policy', and would respect his honesty far more than stories that distort, conceal or deny. Hasn’t the clinton/lewinsky scandal taught us all this much? We now stand at a crossroads. The path of honesty can help thousands of sincere people, while the path of dishonesty can turn those same thousands against you. Which path will you choose to take? Do you believe that we deserve to know the truth about the man we have served for so long? Do you understand the moral bind we are all in if we don’t know the truth? I ask you to be honest and forthright in your response. If you don’t know the answers to these questions, I request you to simply ask maharaji and then report the answers directly on your website and through the satellite transmissions. Sincerely, Jim Sander

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Date: Sat, Mar 31, 2001 at 20:49:32 (GMT) From: Jim Sander (posted by FA) Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Elan Vital's Reply Message:

5 February 2001 Dear Jim, I do apologize for replying so late to your letter. Elan Vital knows of the allegations made on the anti Maharaji websites. We understand your distress resulting from those allegations and how reading such things can be confusing. However, as an organization EV has to first consider the source and motive of the allegations and criticisms before it can decide whether it is appropriate to respond. Elan Vital also respects the right to freedom of speech as well as the right that all individuals have to come to their own conclusions. Maharaji has passionately and with commitment made his gift of Knowledge and inspiration available to people from all walks of life. He does this freely and asks people to judge it by their experience. Confusing allegations and stories about Maharaji have been around since the day he arrived in the West and even before that when he travelled in India. It will always be a person's option to weigh the stories and their relevance with their own personal first hand experience, and see what feels most right. The option to practice Knowledge or stop has always been and remains an individual decision. In Maharaji's lifelong effort to make his gift available, he has done so always displaying integrity and a quest to make it ever more understandable and obtainable. Helping make Maharaji's message known has been and will continue to be a great honor for Elan Vital. Thank you, Jim. Sincerely, Kathie Thomas, Director Elan Vital

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Date: Mon, Apr 02, 2001 at 20:18:54 (GMT) From: Joe Email: None To: Jim Sander (posted by FA) Subject: Excellent -- agree should be permanent on site Message:

You cover very well what I think would occur to many premies about why all that stuff is important. Kathie Thomas: how can she possibly live with herself and write crap like that. I'm not surprised; she is reportedly the person who wrote the Elan Vital FAQs which is cognitive dissonance taken to astronomical levels. Excellent work. Thanks much.

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Date: Sun, Apr 01, 2001 at 16:46:56 (GMT) From: Nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: Jim Sander (posted by FA) Subject: Brilliant, Jim! EV evasions = tacit admission? nt Message:

nt

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Date: Sun, Apr 01, 2001 at 11:32:33 (GMT) From: janet Email: None To: Jim Sander (posted by FA) Subject: Elan Vital's Reply Message:

my rebuttal to Kathie Thomas: >'Elan Vital knows of the allegations...' excuse me Katie, but these are not allegations. These are firsthand eyewitness reports, from individuals who were hand picked by Maharaji himself, who walked beside him, drove with him, spent long hours with him in private, working with him on his projects, listening to his wishes, satisfactorily executing his orders and answering to him personally. These are individuals whom he entrusted with his most precious possession: his net worth: and who never betrayed that trust, not from the day they assumed his confidence until the day they resigned. These are individuals who came to him without preconceptions, who listened to Satsang, who met the conditions necessary to be bestowed the Knowledge, who met the conditions necessary to enter the Ashram, who practiced every aspect of it that he recommended, faithfully, through years of service and participation. There is nothing to allege, when one was directly involved. It is tantamount to interrogating someone as to whether they exist, and when they reply 'yes, i do', you retort 'so you allege'. These are not 'allegations', Kathie. They are the truth, plain, simple, factual and personal accounts. '... made on the anti Maharaji websites.' excuse me again. The original website, the first one, was not, as you mistakenly characterize it, anti maharaji. I believe the original site was the newsgroup alt.cult.maharaji, which, although I am sure you cannot help reacting to the presence of the visible 'cult' in the title, does not refer to maharaji as a cult. the 'cult.' in the title is standard internet abbreviation for 'alternative culture', a designation contained on hundreds if not thousands of groups, so titled, where humanity the world over can gather in virtual association and converse about whatever subject they have in common. That said, I would think you would now feel quite foolish, realizing that the first appearance on the net of a place to speak of Maharaji was in fact neutral, not 'anti'. The site you doubtless would like to indicate as 'anti-Maharaji next, would be that titled 'ex-premie .org'. In the true history of its existence, this site was not published for purposes of defaming or 'exposing' Maharaji. It was an effort by one human being who had been a member to offer a place where others who had been members, to come and socialize, as onetime membership in this experience is not exactly familiar to the general public and is tedious to explain to the average person on the street( or on the screen). Thus, providing a place where old friends, and once close associates from the membership years, could find familiar company on the internet, was appreciated by those who had lost track of friends they missed once they left the group. I am sorry to burst your bubble, but they were interested in one another, NOT in Maharaji. Hence, your characterization of the purpose of the site as 'anti' -Maharaji is rather paranoid or inflated by your imagination. It carries the same flavor as the mind of a woman home with her boyfriend who, when he pauses to take a phone call from another woman he knows from work , turns to him and accuses him of [take your pick:] having an affair with her/accusing him of no longer being in love with his present company/being certain they were talking about her behind her back--when in fact they were talking about the job. ' We understand your distress...' that is doubtful, since you, and indeed, we, ourselves, when we considered ourselves devoted members, specifically denied any form of distress, and attempted to determinedly supress any such feelings with redoubled efforts to meditate, surrender, get satsang, get darshan, and not listen to our minds. '...resulting from those allegations [dealt with above] and how reading such things can be confusing...' Excuse me again: No one characterized these revelations as 'confusing', Kathie. Their substance is quite clear. They are not allegations, they are facts, witnessed in the first person, and there is no question about what happened, and about what Maharaji in fact, did. You are being disingenuous, about interpreting the rhetorical presentation of exposure, as if it were expressive of naivete and seeking guidance. No one here is confused at all. Perhaps the confusion exists for you. .... 'However, as an organization, EV has to first consider the source...' very well.The source is a wide range of individuals who had no preconceptions, attended satsang, met the conditions to receive Knowledge, practiced it exactly as guided to, served Maharaji, had Darshan, devoted themselves to his work, and yes, Kathie, had the experience. In other words, we are you, in another skin. So as far as considering the source, can you impugn the personal reports of such Knowledgeable individuals who served Maharaji as closely as did Michael Dettmers, Michael Donner, Jean-Michel, Anth, and Rollins? Did they serve him any less rigorously than you yourself do? ...' and motive of the allegations and criticisms...' the motives of the allegations and criticisms, you say. the motive of the criticisms... If you are duty bound to examine motives, then that would be a matter of ethics, would it not? Yet you profess not to comprehend the matters of ethical conscience expressed in Mr. Sanders' own letter. Again, this is disingenuous. If you understand the need to examine motives, surely you can turn the same strong light upon yourself! What do you believe the motives are? surely they could not be articulated any more clearly than they are in Mr. Sanders' letter! ...' before it can decide whether it is appropriate to respond....' 'it'? Pardon me. 'It'????? An 'it' is a thing, without a voice, a mind, a heart, volition. The wind is an 'it'. A rock is an 'it'. Water is an 'it'. You, however, at Elan Vital are human beings. You are nothing else, are you not? You cannot say 'we'? you are not human beings, with conscience, ethical awareness, without any sense of responsibility to the public? 'Elan Vital also respects the right to freedom of speech as well as the right that all individuals have to come to their own conclusions.' If so, then perhaps you would like to explain the efforts that were made to wipe the websites off the internet. ' Maharaji has passionately and with commitment made his gift of Knowledge and inspiration available to people from all walks of life.' well, let us take those item by item. 'Passionately':does this refer to his raising his voice and berating, humiliating, ridiculing and abusing the belief his followers evidence in serving him? 'Committment': would this refer to the promised lifetime shelter of the ashrams, which he abruptly dissolved without warning, or providence for those who had given their trust and lives to him? Would it refer to his comment some time ago that 'maybe he needed to go out and get himself a whole new bunch of premies and let all the old ones go'? Is that what you mean when you refer to 'Committment'? Or perhaps you are citing his declaration that 'he had come to establish a thousand years of Peace'? He said that 'very soon, the whole world would know who is Guru Maharaji'. He said that 30 years ago, when he was 14. But today he insists he said no such thing. Is that the Committment you refer to? 'People from all walks of life': well, maybe not all walks. In fact, the manual today is very specific about not giving Knowledge to people from all walks. It is very vivd aboutb excluding those who cannot meet the delineated descriptions, made plain in the aspirant manual, meaning, those who do not have sizeable and steady incomes to donate, those who have shown signs of disability or psychiatric handicap, those who cannot afford satellite subscriptions to Dishnet and Visions broadcasts, and especially not those who ask probing questions, regarding Maharaji's character and motives. 'He does this freely...' !!!Surely you can't be in earnest!!! You are well aware of the costs of attending Amaroo, of subscribing to Dishnet and to Visions, of the hours lost from work, the registration costs of announced programs, the issuance of the Smart Cards! This is precisely why aspirants are screened for income and the destitute discouraged from pursuing their interest. Nothing about Knowledge is free! You cannot receive it unless you invest enormous amounts of time, energy, belief, and money! ...'and asks people to judge it by their experience.' Kathie!! What on earth do you think we are doing??? if he asks us to judge it by our experience, what on earth do you think we are basing our entire inquiry upon? Our Experience is exactly what this all because of! WE each and all HAD experience with him! People who have no experience with him would not be so motivated! If you want to really get technical about it, we are only doing what he asked us to do, which was to come, try it, have our experience, and then tell the world about it!! How can you find anything wrong in that? Isn't that exactly what you at Elan Vital do? Isn't that your whole reason for existing? Aren't we doing exactly the same thing? 'Confusing allegations and stories about Maharaji have been around since the day he arrived in the West, and even before that, when he travelled in India.' Yes, and how much of that confusion has been deliberately promulgated by Majaraji himself, to mislead, conceal, prevaricate, and to set people against each other? According to our eyewitnesses, we can identify reams of such intentional acts, which were knowingly set in motion by Maharaji himself, and remain in force as we speak. You, yourself are a party to this. 'It will always be a person's option to weigh the stories...' indeed it will. And thank whatever forces that created us that we have that ability! ...' and their relevance...' ...' with their own personal first hand experience, and see what feels most right.' and this is what we are doing here, and what Mr.Sanders is doing by issuing his open letter to his community and his letter to you. Ethical decisions are about doing what is right. '... The option to practice Knowledge or stop has always been and remains an individual decision.' I would like to call your attention to the phrase 'to practice Knowledge' Let us think on this a while. The question was asked during the Watergate hearings, 'What did the President know, and when did he know it?' This frames the ethics of what one does, when one has knowledge, and what does when one comes into it. One can come into knowledge of something and make a decision to conceal it. Or to allow it to go on. Or to make it public. 'To practice knowledge' takes on some unexpected meanings, then. The premies at the residence who were X-rated had knowledge they were called upon to practice. The practice of that knowledge was to participate in what went on at the residence, in the form of drinking and drug taking and sexual procurement, and while they knew, to not let anyone know who was not there. and yes, Kathie, one always does have the option whether to continue in the practice of that knowledge, or not. We have opted to stop, to not to practice that kind of knowledge, out of conscience, integrity and committment. 'In Maharaji's lifelong effort to make his gift available,...' what is his gift, exactly? These techniques are not exclusively his. They are millennia old. They are no more remarkable than children showing one another they can fold their tongues or bend their thumbs back double jointed. Is this a gift? Is the first person who shows you what sex is, giving you a gift? Is a person who swears you to lifelong secrecy giving you a gift? Is a person who forbids you to speak about the ostensibly most beautiful thing you ever experienced, giving you a gift? A gift is something given without asking anything back in return. It's a spontaneous gesture. A gift does not require a subsequent lifetime of imposed silence, or the repeated prodding to be grateful for it. You don't have to do anything to earn it or merit it. This does not in any way remotely describe what a person encounters when crossing paths with receiving Knowledge! It is not given; it is witheld. Conditions are imposed, both before and after. Once one receives it, one never hears the end of it. Fears are insinuated into it. 'gift' could not be farther from the truth. Maharaji does not give any gift. ...' he has done so always displaying integrity...' [refer to the comments regarding his displays of 'committment' and 'confusion' ...' and a quest to make it ever more understandable...' may I call your attention to the famous line in the Tao Te Ching? to wit, 'Those who speak of it cannot not know; Those who know of it cannot speak. The Tao/Way that can be spoken is not the true Tao/Way' here, by definition, we have something which ostensibly cannot be spoken or spoken about, yet Maharaji--and you, for him, attempt to portray him as nobley devoting himself to doing exactly that. It is clear, thus, that By definition, he is doomed to fail, he is on a fool's errand, and, that whatever it is he DOES speak of, he cannot be speaking in the True Way. I believe that american saying adequately apples, then: 'Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach'. ...' and obtainable.'... [refer to my comments above, regarding the officially dictated screening out of undesirable aspirants] 'Helping make Maharaji's message known has been and will continue to be a great honor for Elan Vital.' Well, you are welcome to place yourselves in the service of someone on a fool's errand. He is wasting your time and the world's nobly portraying himself as speaking about something he never can, and by association, you are, as well. A fool and his money are soon parted. I suppose it is a good thing that what money he takes in is of zero use, until he puts it back into the general economy, by spending it, thus releasing it back to the rest of the human race, where it can be used and of real benefit to those who need it. How many gold toilets does anyone need, after all?

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Date: Sun, Apr 01, 2001 at 09:24:03 (GMT) From: Mark Email: None To: Jim Sander (posted by FA) Subject: Elan Vital's Reply Message:

These are the letters to hand out at the next international gathering in Europe or the US; or better yet, to leaflet from a low flying airplane as The 'Lord' gathers his disciples around him at Ivory Rock, to reinforce his dependency hypnosis! What a heroic logical sincere dude you are. Worth 10,000 artful dodgers, with or without the Krishna costume.

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Date: Sun, Apr 01, 2001 at 04:30:44 (GMT) From: Michael Dettmers Email: dettmers@gylanix.com To: Jim Sander (posted by FA) Subject: Great work Jim (nt) Message:

nt

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Date: Sun, Apr 01, 2001 at 03:49:07 (GMT) From: Marianne Email: None To: Jim Sander (posted by FA) Subject: Dear Kathie Thomas Message:

Dear Kathie Thomas, Reading letters such as the one you wrote(after many hand wringing sessions with innumerable others) makes me hope that SOMEONE sues the fecking shit out of Elan Vital. This letter is highly offensive to all those who have suffered at the hands of Captain Rawat, the cult, and those who run it. I suspect you will one day regret having put your name to that letter. Marianne

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Date: Sat, Mar 31, 2001 at 23:41:28 (GMT) From: Sandy Email: None To: Jim Sander (posted by FA) Subject: This reads like a letter from my Congressman Message:

I would ask something specific and I would get a form letter and a newsletter back and an appeal to vote for him. It's always disappointing (especially with these players) to witness someone doing this to protect themselves legally, as if the simple truthful answers to the questions would not be protection enough. Sandy

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Date: Sat, Mar 31, 2001 at 20:56:48 (GMT) From: Jim Sander (posted by FA) Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Second Letter to Elan Vital Message:

Dear Kathie Thomas, I thank you for your response to my first letter. However, I do have to ask: do you realize that you did not answer any of my questions? Was that intentional, or do you intend to answer the specific questions that I posed? Would you please, in your response to this second letter, indicate if your intention is to 1) engage in a real dialogue about these issues, or 2) be evasive , give me the 'party line', and ultimately not answer them. I am quite serious, Kathy, and I feel that these issues are of the utmost importance. In regard to these issues and allegations, you state that EV must consider the sources and their motives. The sources of these allegations are people, just like us, who served tirelessly and selflessly for many, many years. These are people who served in high positions around maharaji (instructors, community coordinators, personal advisors and organizational leaders) and were chosen because of their integrity and honest desire to serve him. Their motive now is to tell the truth about maharaji: in many instances their conscience is a large factor, as in the case where Michael Dettmers apologized to the former ashram residents for the calloused way they were treated and summarily dismissed by maharaji. They have also stated that they want to prevent anyone in the future from being treated the way they were in the past. They also think it is important for people to know the man they will be involved with for the rest of their life, before they make any commitment to that man. Additionally, there are huge discrepancies in maharaji’s words and deeds, and they would like answers to them. Aren’t these honest and honorable motives? Isn’t there room to have a dialogue about these questions? Do you see how it can potentially help everyone, including maharaji himself, and his students that he claims to care about? As you can see, these stories come from people who supported maharaji. They are not from long time detractors such as the Arya Samaj who opposed him and his father in India, and these are not crazy stories like the 'jewel thief' or 'watch smuggler' stories from the early 1970’s. These are real stories from real people, who saw first hand what they report. And what they report is disturbing because it contradicts so much of what maharaji has preached for decades. The reason it is important to know if these stories are true, is because of the central role that maharaji plays in knowledge. We all know that an aspirant does not get four techniques of meditation and walk away to pursue their own enlightenment. Maharaji plays the most central and dominant role, and it is for that reason that people have a right to know if these things are true. Whether they realize it or not, when a person receives knowledge they are signing up for a lifetime dependency relationship wrapped in devotional love for maharaji. This is hinted at, but not advertised broadly at first. Shouldn’t people know what this man is like in all aspects of his life before they enter into a devotional love relationship with him? What will they think when they start down this new found path, and then realize that the man off stage is very different from the man on stage? What harm have I done to someone if I lead them to a teacher who acts in hypocritical ways or has a drinking problem, and I choose to not tell him about it? Premies say they don’t think about these things, but I do. I realize that what I may be doing in the name of helping people may ultimately be hurting them and myself as well. This is why the truth and a sense of ethics are so important. Shouldn’t they know if he 'walks the talk'? Or does he feel that he, as their teacher, is above a dialogue such as this? How can he ever expect to keep his students if he won’t engage in a real and meaningful dialogue with them from time to time? This one sided presentation that he puts on causes a lot of people to not trust the man or the process. For instance, when he has a 'Q&A' session, he picks before hand which questions he wants to answer. Generally, the questions are either silly or 'softball' questions with obvious answers. Many people, such as myself, have real questions, and get no answers. Do you understand what I am talking about? Can you imagine any middle aged person allowing their young son or daughter to get involved with maharaji, with all of these allegations swirling around him, coming from real people who were long time followers? I can’t. When he avoids answering the questions, it only makes him look like he is hiding something. Why doesn’t he come out and address the issues? If he has nothing to hide it would only make him look stronger, and his critics weaker. Do you think that your evasive answers are going to satisfy new people? Why should anyone take a chance on a man with so much baggage, who never levels with his followers of up to 30 years? Do you ever think about things like that? Let me give you a recent example from my life. A woman I know quite well has asked me many times about meditation. She knows I do it, and feels that she could benefit from some sort of meditation. She also knows about the scandals around maharaji. She finally asked me what I thought she should do, and I told her that while I could recommend meditation to her, I could not recommend maharaji to her, primarily because of all of the unanswered questions surrounding him. She has subsequently learned a meditation from someone at the local university. She thanked me for my candid talks with her about the benefits of meditation, and also praised me for having the ethical consideration of not bringing her into maharaji and knowledge. She said that she feels bad for the pwk who have to deal with all of maharaji’s baggage, in addition to having him remain so distant and evasive. She wanted to know how people could still be devoted to a man who refuses to level with them. It seemed very strange and dysfunctional to her. Her last comment was this: she was glad she got into meditation, and was so glad that it wasn’t maharaji. She also thanked me for having the integrity to not attempt to bring her into the knowledge process. Does this story tell you anything? Another thing that astounds me is that you never once mention any interest in the jagdeo situation, after I specifically mentioned it in the first letter. Once again, I will pose the same question: is your intent to find the truth and have justice served, or is it to stall, cover up and protect maharaji? Wouldn’t you want to know what I have to contribute, so that the process of finding the truth can be furthered? Finally, the things that bother me the most are not the scandals of drugs, alcohol and affairs, but the 'revisionist history' that goes on at maharaji’s websites. Does he really believe that he can clear the past by rewriting it or pretending it did not happen? His version of events strains the imagination and is an insult to all of the thousands who gave so much to him and his work in the 1970’s. I am sure maharaji is deeply embarrassed by much of what he said and did during that era: none of his grandiose predictions ever came true, and so few people remain today, in such a sterile form. The original enthusiasm and vibrancy are gone, and the lifeless packaged format leaves many people wondering what happened. However, he could garner our respect far more by speaking honestly about the past rather than 're-inventing' himself, and the versions of history that he puts forth. It really is insulting to people like myself who gave so much and were given so much bad advice and direction by maharaji, to have him pretend that those things did not happen the way they did. I will be addressing these issues in particular in a subsequent letter to EV. I will also be addressing the issue of ethics and morality: the lack of ethics in this organization has hurt the work very badly, yet no one seems to talk about it. This lack of ethics has eroded trust in most of the people who have been involved, and the results are quite obvious. For some reason this is never talked about, and I wonder why. Kathie, I will assume that you are an honest person. I believe that like myself and many others, you are a good person caught in a bad situation. My hunch is that you know that a lot of this is true, but because it is difficult to wrestle with, and being in your position of loyalty to maharaji, you find a rational for not dealing with it. This ultimately hurts you, as his avoidance of the truth becomes yours as well. His denial becomes your denial. I believe that you are caught in the same situation as those people who served President Clinton: good, loyal people who were caught in a bad situation and had to compromise their ethics to 'serve the boss'. Do you see how maharaji’s evasiveness affects his work, and his students lives as well. Please reflect deeply on these things and respond from your heart. I’d like to know what you, Kathie Thomas, really feel, not a repetition of the 'party line' that seems so prevalent these days. If you are participating in the covering up of scandalous information, it will eventually takes it toll on your life as well. I don’t believe that ethics are an option, or a 'concept' to be gotten over. If you are 'covering' for him, you will eventually regret it. I think that people like Michael Dettmers can tell you a lot about this. I respect his forthright posts on the EPO, and sense that he wants to tell the truth, and sincerely wishes that maharaji would do the same. Have you ever talked to Michael? I have, for hours and hours, and I believe him. If the stories about Randy Prouty are true (the jagdeo sexual abuse situation, and the hit and run coverup in India), how do you think he feels? Ultimately we all have to grapple with issues like these, and while they are not always easy, it is very important that we deal with them. How we deal with them tells a lot about us, and affects our life as well. I believe that the conscience is there for a reason, and if you ignore it, you do so at your own peril. I am a seeker of truth, not a religious party member. I cannot serve someone who knowingly deviates from the truth. When faced with following the 'party line' or finding the truth, I will choose the truth. Have you thought about what you will do? I submit these questions, along with the original questions from the first letter to you again. I sincerely request you to give me specific answers to each question, not evasive non-answers to them. Thank you, Kathie. Sincerely, Jim Sander

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Date: Sun, Apr 01, 2001 at 11:26:32 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Jim Sander (posted by FA) Subject: Respect Jim. Message:

Jim, A big 'Thank You' for having the balls to write those excellent letters, and then sharing them with us. I think you asked those questions on behalf of lots of premies, who are beginning to question their commitment to the Captain and cult at the moment. The cult are cagey about putting anything in print about the Captain that may tarnish his image as Perfect Master or our time. They even dodge one of their own questions on their website- 'Does Maharaji have an expensive lifestyle?' or something. Asking them straight questions, like you did Jim, can be viewed as pyschologically sadistic. They can do nothing but wriggle and squirm. It's so easy to push the buttons. They are in retreat at the moment, like the German army in 1943. You can expect no sense, reason, moral perspective, honesty, straight dealing or decent human behaviour from them. What a fob-off that reply is. It's an insult to anybody's intelligence. I imagine you are now classed as 'totally confused and freaked out.', so they don't have to acknowledge you as an equal any longer. It's worse than those 'roboemails' you get when you sign up for a free website or something. In dealing with your serious, heartfelt concerns they show as much sensitiviy as a rock through the living room window. Have you had a couple of premie pals invite you out for dinner and a 'chat' yet? By the way Jim, have we communicated previously by email, when you had a different identity? Take care, and thanks again Anth still a fool in America. (It's 1.30 here).

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Date: Mon, Apr 02, 2001 at 04:51:55 (GMT) From: Richard Email: None To: Jim Sander Subject: Excellent JS! - I'm curious, when you ran into.. Message:

.. people from your community, did you get the hugs you asked for or the icy stares? Excellent work - your questions represent the ultimate koan for anyone involved with M or K.

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Date: Sun, Apr 01, 2001 at 09:49:16 (GMT) From: Kelly Email: None To: Jim Sander (posted by FA) Subject: Thanks Jim Sander, great letters, wonderful work. Message:

Have you by any chance sent a similar letter to M mimself? You have expressed our concerns so accurately and eloquently, that I think he should get one direct, or at least a copy of these. I think it is particularly telling that Kathy Thomas does not take the opportunity to ask you about any additional information you may have about Jagdeo. What a total deriliction of duty. Her response is a disgrace. I have printed your letters out, there are a few people I intend to show them to! Thanks again Kelly

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Date: Sun, Apr 01, 2001 at 03:50:04 (GMT) From: scottc. Email: None To: Jim Sander (posted by FA) Subject: Second Letter to Elan Vital Message:

Jim; Thankyou for expressing so eloquently and respectfully the deep concerns and questions that have escaped my own ability and patience to articulate.It is my greatest wish at this time that the issues put forth in your letters are addressed in real and non-evasive manner. I stuck between holding my breath and not....After nearly 29 years of nearly unquestioning dedication to M. and his work I am face to face with the contradiction that you have so patiently and diligently laid out. thanks for your moxy and integrity...it's an inspiring model.

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Date: Sun, Apr 01, 2001 at 05:32:43 (GMT) From: Pat Conlon Email: None To: scottc. Subject: I second that scott - thank you Jim Sander Message:

A year ago I started writing a similar letter but as you said I too lacked the ''ability and patience to articulate'' it. Also, after the stonewalling that I got from the local instructor and EV honchos, I did not have any faith that it would be answered. Jim has done us all a great service to have taken such pains to put it into words. I long ago lost patience and ended up frustrated and not in a very nice mood. I'm glad that you got to see a sane approach to it, scott, instead of my crazy Irish volatility. I'm glad that there are cooler heads than mine for you to read here.

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Date: Sun, Apr 01, 2001 at 04:33:57 (GMT) From: Gary E. Email: E.@magma.ca To: Jim Sander Subject: Letters to Chapel Hill Community and EV Message:

Ditto Scottc's reply. You are a person of utmost sincerity, integrity and courage - a helluva lot more than can be said of Kathy Thomas. Thanks for so eloquently and elegantly confronting the hypocrisy.

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Date: Sun, Apr 01, 2001 at 01:06:20 (GMT) From: Connie Email: None To: Jim Sander (posted by FA) Subject: Thank you, Jim, powerful, honest letters Message:

Your three letters, struck chords loudly in me, with each sentence you wrote. I admire your integrity, honesty and forthrightness. EV's response was, as always, saying nothing of substance or answering your very valid and disturbing questions. When I read posts like yours, your courage uplifts me, then when I read EV's reply, I feel dragged down into the dark, evasive side of the cult again, my disillusionment and heartbreak concerning maharaji (and EV to some extent) wells up, and I am left thinking how lucky I am to have let my moral and 'spiritual' compass demand answers to the questions I had and the inconsistencies I saw. Take care.

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Date: Sun, Apr 01, 2001 at 00:08:05 (GMT) From: Brian Smith Email: None To: Jim Sander (posted by FA) Subject: This is some of the best info that has ever been Message:

been posted here on FV. One of the most genuine, sincere and above board attempts to get to the truth of the cult and M. Truly a well thought out and magnificient effort on your part Jim S. Plus, A real insight to the mindset of the artful dodgers back at EV. Talk about Spin Doctor, As Sandy noted, Kathie Thomas could carve out a fabulous career on capital hill serving one of our nations most slippery political leaders. Her evasive non-response is a direct reflection on the MO of her boss and is one of the biggest arguments itself in favor of bailing out of this corrupt and deluded cult.

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Date: Sat, Mar 31, 2001 at 22:25:35 (GMT) From: Susan Email: None To: Jim Sander (posted by FA) Subject: Second Letter to Elan Vital Message:

5 February 2001 ( EV must always use the cool people way of writing the date ) Dear Jim, I do apologize for replying so late to your letter. ( I had to conference and coordinate and syncronize my obfuscitation with many PAMs) Elan Vital knows of the allegations made on the anti Maharaji websites. We understand your distress resulting from those allegations and how reading such things can be confusing. ( to a person listening to his mind such as yourself, we are not confused by it, we don't give a shit) However, as an organization EV has to first consider the source and motive of the allegations and criticisms before it can decide whether it is appropriate to respond. ( people who don't like us could not possibly have anything legitimate to say, if they were worth listening to, they would be spouting satsangspeak like us ) Elan Vital also respects the right to freedom of speech as well as the right that all individuals have to come to their own conclusions. ( we say this because it sounds good and they do have a right to be wrong and go to hell if they so choose) Maharaji has passionately and with commitment made his gift of Knowledge and inspiration available to people from all walks of life. He does this freely and asks people to judge it by their experience. ( And if he got damn rich in the proccess fuck you Jim for pointing it out) Confusing allegations and stories about Maharaji have been around since the day he arrived in the West and even before that when he travelled in India. ( the fact that he and his family have always been snake oil salesman does not disturb us.) It will always be a person's option to weigh the stories and their relevance with their own personal first hand experience, and see what feels most right. The option to practice Knowledge or stop has always been and remains an individual decision. ( if you don't like it, fuck off and leave and stop bothering us ) In Maharaji's lifelong effort to make his gift available, he has done so always displaying integrity and a quest to make it ever more understandable and obtainable. ( this sounds good too...lets talk about his integrity????? huhhhh???? wasn't that letter about his lack of it????) Helping make Maharaji's message known has been and will continue to be a great honor for Elan Vital. ( see gmj we love you , and it will alwasy be an honor to serve you and would be even if you were a mass murderer, nothing, nothing , will ever stop our devotion, we have the EXPERIENCE ) Thank you, Jim. ( Fuck you Jim) Sincerely, ( Fuck off) Kathie Thomas, Director Elan Vital ( latest person Rawat can blame when his lawyers chew him out )

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Date: Sat, Mar 31, 2001 at 21:52:14 (GMT) From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Jim Sander (posted by FA) Subject: EV's lack of denial of 'allegations' Message:

I find it fascinating that EV reps like Katie Thomas continue to tap-dance away from questions rather than respond with out-right denials. The people involved are refusing to go on record as having denied what there are too many others to substantiate - the 'allegations' made about Rawat online. Is this some sort of 'half-integrity' that prevents them from at least trying to protect him via lies? It's also apparent to me that the responders to these sorts of questions are hesitant to zig when they know full-well that Rawat may choose to zag tomorrow. Why they would want to unconditionally throw their life-long support behind him - regardless of what he chooses to do, and all the while allowing for his possible behavioral changes - is beyond me. Bill Clinton's staff denied the charges leveled against him because they were kept in the dark as to the truth of the charges - although they all felt foolish when he came out and admitted his guilt after being boxed in by the DNA facts. Yet EV's people don't seem to have an actual ignorance of the facts that would allow them to even offer denials. I have to wonder what sort of inner rationale Katie Thomas and others can have to allow them to continue to support Rawat when it's obvious that they are too aware of the truth about him to deny the facts.

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Date: Sat, Mar 31, 2001 at 23:28:58 (GMT) From: Alan Fenstermacher Email: alan@woodcon.com To: Brian Subject: EV's lack of denial of 'allegations' Message:

Brian, Do you think she may believe she answered all his questions with the 'and see what feels most right.' She is defacto saying if you believe your experience with m is true then you should believe the allegations false. Definetly in denial. Jim is sincerly asking questions and they might as well have said meditate brother and saved the paper. A-

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Date: Sat, Mar 31, 2001 at 23:45:36 (GMT) From: Katie H Email: None To: Alan Fenstermacher Subject: I agree, Alan Message:

(although it is hard to get used to calling you Alan - Ben Lurking was a great alias) Seems like she is saying that if it feels good to meditate, then why worry about anything else - like other people getting hurt? It also sounds like a typical form letter, in that it takes several paragraphs to say virtually nothing. I'd be very angry if I got this kind of letter in response to some serious questions.

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Date: Sun, Apr 01, 2001 at 00:56:00 (GMT) From: Pat Conlon Email: None To: Katie H Subject: Form letter - 1000s got the same one NT Message:

k

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Date: Sun, Apr 01, 2001 at 01:57:10 (GMT) From: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Pat Conlon Subject: Duping the duped Message:

If that's the case then there are now an awful lot of premies out there who see that the time that they spent writing for answers to their questions was met as with a reply as impersonal as junk mail. Wouldn't surprise me, though. EV and Rawat ALWAYS do the absolute worst thing possible at every 'crisis'. Why stop shooting themselves in the foot now?

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Date: Sun, Apr 01, 2001 at 01:01:51 (GMT) From: Katie H Email: None To: Pat Conlon Subject: Did you get one, Pat? (nt) Message:

nt

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Date: Sun, Apr 01, 2001 at 02:19:41 (GMT) From: Pat Conlon - I wish you Email: None To: Katie H Subject: No, I did not have the patience to write to them Message:

But, after I told one of the local PWKs about the yacht, he wrote to EV and got one.

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Date: Sun, Apr 01, 2001 at 11:37:36 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Pat Conlon - I wish you Subject: If I write to EV will they... Message:

Hi Pat, If I write to EV do you think I'll get a yacht too? It must have been a good letter. When they asked for a response to their FAQs, on their website, I sent a letter to them. But I didn't get a reply. I think we are on some sort of contaminated list Pat. If they send us an email, our black, hate-filled, vibrations, may somehow wriggle back up the phone line, via Yahoo.com, and spoil their meditation. Yeah, Patrick, for we are the accursed who have spat in the face of the Lord, and will need a brand new-all badder-chamber of Hell, worse than anything ever, built by Satans contractors, especially for us. Anth, who could have been a contender.

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Date: Sun, Apr 01, 2001 at 18:41:47 (GMT) From: Pat Conlon Email: None To: AJW Subject: Oh Anth, you always catch my syntax errors Message:

What a hoot. Actually they just sent him a small plastic replica of a yacht. Now he keeps his stash in it. I'm thinking of writing to them about the Krishna crown. Wonder if they'll send it? Loved the old Hindu drag.

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Date: Sun, Apr 01, 2001 at 19:06:24 (GMT) From: aoaji Email: None To: Pat Conlon Subject: Oh Anth, you always catch my syntax errors Message:

In your shining crown and coat You still can't even play a note My sad guru looks like 'Divine' Now I have found my bald spot again.. Bald spot again! Bald spot again! Bald spot again; Bald spot again - With the downpour of the Holi paint My five hundred dollar suit is ruined and stained.

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Date: Sun, Apr 01, 2001 at 23:35:53 (GMT) From: Pat Conlon Email: None To: aoaji Subject: Nice song - My sad guru looks like 'Divine' Message:

I wish he would still wear the Hindu drag though.

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Date: Sun, Apr 01, 2001 at 19:50:38 (GMT) From: Kelly Email: None To: aoaji Subject: Oh Anth, you always catch my syntax errors Message:

aoaji, i think I love you! but I don't even know your name! yeah, but i think i love you....etc

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Date: Mon, Apr 02, 2001 at 04:58:22 (GMT) From: a0aji Email: None To: Kelly Subject: Oh Anth, you always catch my syntax errors Message:

Hey, we can work with that. It's Chris.

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Date: Sun, Apr 01, 2001 at 02:24:06 (GMT) From: Katie H. Email: None To: Pat Conlon - I wish you Subject: Thanks Message:

It would be interesting to see it if you did (although I guess you would already have shown it to us!) What is the 'I wish you...'? Katie, your fellow Taurus (when is your birthday, BTW?)

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Date: Sun, Apr 01, 2001 at 05:24:44 (GMT) From: Pat Conlon Email: None To: Katie H. Subject: Oops. sorry Katie the ''I wish you...' Message: