PatC -:- I had Movie Star darshan last night (long post) -:- Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 09:46:12 (GMT)

__ Deborah -:- Movie Star Darshan stories continues... -:- Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 23:22:06 (GMT)

__ __ PatC -:- Movie Star Darshan stories - more, more -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 00:41:37 (GMT)

__ Brian Smith -:- I had Movie Star darshan last night (long post) -:- Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 18:55:40 (GMT)

__ __ Francesca -:- ****GREAT POST BRIAN***** worth reading!!! -:- Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 05:03:06 (GMT)

__ __ Someone who knows -:- Drummer in Fab T-Birds is Fran Christina not -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 04:04:09 (GMT)

__ __ __ Brian Smith -:- The Drummer in Fab T-Birds is now Fran Christina -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 08:36:18 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Brian Smith -:- correction/ -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 08:59:39 (GMT)

__ __ Chuck Sprague -:- I know what you mean, but isn't it involuntary?... -:- Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 22:15:23 (GMT)

__ __ __ Francesca -:- Andy is SO cool! n/t -:- Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 05:06:25 (GMT)

__ __ __ Someone who knows -:- It's not 'Boss' Skaggs but Bozz Skaggs and he is -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 04:39:02 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Chuck Sprague -:- Correct Spelling = Good Darshan. Thanks ;) NT -:- Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 00:26:09 (GMT)

__ __ __ Bin Liner -:- The Illusion of Celebrity -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 00:08:11 (GMT)

__ __ __ Peter Howie -:- Very involuntary - for a while -:- Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 23:47:42 (GMT)

__ Carl -:- Learned and projected aura = emporer's clothes /nt -:- Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 11:47:21 (GMT)

__ Steve Quint -:- By The Way, That's Better Than Doggie Darshan -:- Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 11:33:12 (GMT)

__ __ Steve Quint -:- Mick -:- Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 16:11:09 (GMT)

__ __ Steve Quint -:- And -:- Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 12:07:10 (GMT)

__ Steve Quint -:- I had Movie Star darshan last night (long post) -:- Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 11:25:42 (GMT)

__ __ PatC -:- Rock stars, queens and coming out of the closet -:- Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 18:18:19 (GMT)

__ __ __ Carl -:- Amen, brother, Amen to that !!! BTW - - - -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 01:18:46 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ PatC -:- Hunks aren't my type. I'm a snob. -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 07:53:59 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Carl -:- I hear you -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 11:36:59 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- A hunk a hunk of burnin love -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 18:36:07 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ such -:- da Godfather's wife used 2 ask me 2 sing that! (nt -:- Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 20:57:03 (GMT)

Date: Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 09:46:12 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: I had Movie Star darshan last night (long post)
Message:

In a thread below Nigel analysed the psychological aspects of darshan. Chuck added his two cents about celebrity darshan and recounted the time he got a contact high from Robin Williams. I was there too but I didn't get the ''shaktipat a la Mork'' because I didn't really know who he was not being a Yank.

That got me to thinking about name recognition and darshan. Before I got K I was living with a friend of mine (who also did not have K) in Golders Green in north London. He came home one day and told me how he had met this girl at the tube station and she had invited him home. He thought it was for sex. When they got to her house, she asked him to wait in the living room and went upstairs. While he sat waiting a little Indian teenager walked in and said Hi and sat down in a chair near the window.

The two of them sat in silence for a while. My friend was not the type to make small talk and neither was he uneasy with the kid because his wife was Indian (like me, they also had to escape South Africa in the sixties because of politics.) The girl came back and threw herself on the floor in front of the kid and kissed his feet. The little Indian kid was Guru Maharaji.

I asked my friend if he had gotten a contact high from the guru and he said no. I pressed further because all my other friends were getting K and I did not like what I had heard about him but could not ignore him. ''Did you feel anything?'' I asked.

''No, what should I have felt?'' he answered.

He did not know that little Rawat was the Lord of the Universe and therefore did not see that. Even Balyouguesswhat himself has said as much when he told the story about talking with his neighbor across the fence. ''He doesn't have darshan. He just sees me as his friendly neighbor,'' Rev Rawat once recounted.

Rev Rawat is the only celebrity whose feet I have ever kissed. I've met others. I catered George Lucas' daughter's birthday in Marin and was tongue-tied when he came into the kitchen to thank me (and pay me.) It was 1980 and Star Wars still held a special place in my heart. I was awed and he was so unpretentious and friendly.

I've had any minor celebrities in the restaurant. Because of my libertarian friends I've had famous political writers and academics. In the opera world I have hosted the family reunion of a famous soprano and fed a host of other singers and musicians. In the culinary world I have entertained many a famous chef come to steal my recipes.

And, because it's a veggie joint, I've had famous animal rights activists, ''sustainable growth proponents'' and also plenty of New Age pundits and swamis. I've also met Governor ''Moonbeam'' Brown and Tom Hayden. The only one from who I got a contact high was the diva. She was the only one whom I admired, that I was in awe of. The others' accomplishments did not impress me.

So, for me, there have to be at least two aspects to darshan: name recognition and admiration. With Rawat I got a real good dose. Wasn't his family name GOD? He might as well have been called Prempal God. And who does not admire GOD?

Tonight in the restaurant, two quite ordinary young women arrived after the usual early Sunday rush. They had a reservation for 8pm. The first two hours had been a conveyor belt operation of feeding families with squealing rug-rats as is usual for Sunday. I had not seen the two women arrive because I was taking a tea break at my desk in the wine cellar and looking at FV on my computer when Andy came down to get some wine.

Andy was hunting so I asked what he was looking for. He answered that he was looking for our most expensive and oldest wine, a Plaisir de Merle cabernet sauvignon from Paarl. He added that he was surprised that two such ordinary young women would order a bottle of wine that cost ten times what one would expect them to buy. I rejoindered that they may be off-duty waiters at a fancy restaurant and had a taste for la dolce vita. They had assured him that price was no object.

Chuck took their dinner order and wondered if they had been in before because one woman's face was familiar. No new customers came after nine and I came up from the cellar to close down. Most of the customers started leaving.

At ten Andy came to me with a credit card and said, ''Isn't this a movie star?'' I took a look and answered, ''Yes, let me go and see.''

I went into the dining room and found myself shouting very loudly: ''Oh my god! Yes it is!'' The movie star and her lady friend were by now the only customers left so I gushed as only a fag can about how happy I was to see her and how much I enjoyed her movies and that I knew that she was a brainy person eventhough some of her parts were not much better than trailer trash and that I was a snob and didn't really like movie people.

She was upset by that so I had to backtrack and use a bit of tactful charm but I soon realized that she was feeling no pain and seemed tickled that I was so tactless. We talked for the next hour about her being a vegan and animal rights activist, joked about sleeping her way to the top, girl-talked about astrology, yoga, Brendan Frasier, Kenneth Branagh, adopting special needs dogs (I have five and she has six) Doris Day, another dog nut (she owns an elegant dog hotel just south of SF in Carmel), and her new boyfriend who is the first one not to mind dog hair in the bed.

I'm not saying her name because she comes up to SF regularly and has promised to send all her pals and become a regular and I need to be able to look her in the face without feeling that I have betrayed her confidence. Then they left and we closed up and came home and talked about it.

Chuck, who had been unimpressed by her before he knew who it was (she was looking pretty funky with no make and dressed in jeans and a sweater and obviously had a bad hair day) now got some movie star darshan as she walked past him to leave and he could hardly look at her. Suddenly, with name recognition, she became a princess, Hollywood royalty.

I thought to myself that I had not gotten celebrity darshan but I had. I realized that I was feeling very alert and full of energy. It could have been because she told me that she could not believe that I was old as I said I was - flattery will do that to me. But there was no getting away from it: she was a celebrity whom I admired.

Rev Rawat did once say, as is pointed out in another thread here somehwere, that darshan worked because we thought it would. Yes, what bigger celebrity can you get than GOD and who more to admire? When I stopped seeing him as god the shaktipat no longer worked.

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Date: Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 23:22:06 (GMT)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Movie Star Darshan stories continues...
Message:

I've had lots of Movie Star Darshan. I lived a few apartment buildings away from a restaurant called HUGO's (Santa Monica Blvd. & Kings Rd)and had quite a number of my encounters there.

One evening (15 yrs. ago) I walked into Hugo's and requested a window seat. As the waiter sat me down, I noticed that the handsome gentleman sitting at the next window seat was Dick Smothers. I instinctively went over to him and announced that I was happy to have the opportunity to see him and told him that 'I evolved as a result of the Smothers Brothers shows'. He laughed whole heartedly and told me that was the most interesting advance he ever received and invited me to join him for dinner. I accepted and was treated to a little prashad as well.

Funny thing was, one week before that evening I went with the munchies to the restaurant at the end of the night and saw Tommy Smothers there with a young female assistant hamming it up. As I stood talking to the manager abut deserts togo Tommy came up and opened his arms and announced 'It's my birthday' so I gave him a big hug.

I almost got run over by a limosine with Bruce Willis in it. (This story is very similar experience I had with a limosine transporting Maharaji). As I walked in the alley of the Bodie Tree NewAge store I heard a car peeling. I jumped to side and a limosine came to a sudden stop. I thought 'Fuck You idiot' and went with my hands on my hips, stopped in front of the car, leaned over and glared at the chauffeur - my curious eyes glanced into the backseat and caught a childlike smirk - it was Bruce. He looked like a kid with his hands caught in the cookie jar and this made me smile. I went from pissed to blissed. I got out of the way and the limo gave me a little toot.

I have more movie star darshan if you want to hear. Funny posts today...shit you guys give me a laugh.

Movie Star Darshan :}

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 00:41:37 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: Movie Star Darshan stories - more, more
Message:

Sometimes FV sounds like the founding fathers sweating over the constitution and the next its like People magazine.

I want to hear more but only of you also tell us if they gave good shaktipat. Whose shaktipat was the biggest, the best, the nicest etc.

I can't stand Mr Willis (well I don't know him, but his public persona puts me off) and that smirk of his is too much like the one I want so badly to wipe off the Shrub's smug mug. But I would probably get good shaktipat off Bruce because he's sexy in a naughty way bordering on being repulsive. It looks as if he enjoys ''doin' rude'' as the Jamaicans say.

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Date: Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 18:55:40 (GMT)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: I had Movie Star darshan last night (long post)
Message:

Good analogy of how we can easily get caught up in the subjected reality of other's fame and fortune, (darshan, stardom, celebrity presence)

I had a similiar experience myself recently, I was at a local jam session here recently and I joined a group of musicians on stage for a set. I just walked into the place and the host said grab your instrument and go up now, as a Bass player it is important to work closely with the drummer and set the rythym and groove. I immediately was impressed with the level of this drummers playing even though I did not recognize him.

We were back there yukking it up, high fiveing each other and carrying on as if we were long lost brothers having the absolute best of times.

As I got down off stage one of the local musicians approached me and I said 'Hey are you going to jam with this group they are great' he looked at me apprehensively and said NO WAY, these guys are out of my league, these are the big boys, I couldn't hang with them but YOU did great. I would be afraid to get on stage with the Fabulous Thunderbirds, hearing that I nearly fell off of my feet.

Here came drummer Jimi Bott to thank me only this time knowing who he was, he suddenly was larger than life and what a minute ago was a kinship of musical spirit was now entrenched and corrupted in this notion of celebrity.

I just could not be myself in the same natural way as before and I found myself behaving ackwardly and fumbling for clever words.

This is good example of how we mindfuck ourselves with information and concepts about people who's reputation and accomplishments proceed the reality of who they really are.

Just folks like you and me, unless of course you yourself choose to change the dynamic of the relationship by inserting your concept of awe, stardom, spirituality etc.

I took myself right out of the honest experience and expression I just had prior to and put myself into this inauthentic and subserviant conceptualized version of what I now thought, subjected to awe.

I learned a lot from that encounter

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Date: Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 05:03:06 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Brian Smith
Subject: ****GREAT POST BRIAN***** worth reading!!!
Message:

And I totally agree. It's bullshit.

I grew up in a wealthy town and there were movie stars, business execs and all sorts of people successful in a worldly sense. When I was a child, and maybe still today, Fairfield County in Connecticut was the wealthiest county in the US.

Then I went to work in Beverly Hills when I lived in LA, where I not only saw movie stars but sometimes Rawat out shopping in his motor home. I knew the movie star darshan was unreal, even though it was sometimes a hoot, but didn't see through the Rawat thing.

But what a striking story about the change, once the concept came in of WHO the guy was. I'm sure it would have been hard to be natural if you'd known who the guy was. I know I'd have done the same thing.

Good insights there.

love, f

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 04:04:09 (GMT)
From: Someone who knows
Email: None
To: Brian Smith
Subject: Drummer in Fab T-Birds is Fran Christina not
Message:

Jimmi Bott. Their original drummer back in the '70s was Mike Buck. In fact since Jimmy Vaughan left the band, Kim Wilson the great harmonica player/vocalist/front man filled the void with the likes of Duke Robillard (ex- Roomfull of Blues guitarist) and Kid Ramos and within the last year has been touring eponymously as the Kim Wilson Blues Band. So no wonder you didn't feel any darshan . . .
(a blues fan)

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 08:36:18 (GMT)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Someone who knows
Subject: The Drummer in Fab T-Birds is now Fran Christina
Message:

who also blows a mean harmonica (harp) sings great as well and adds good back-up vocals. Richard Innes who came over from the Hollywood Fats Band was also on board as drummer for a while. As you know over the past 25 years there have been many changes and musicians in the T-Birds and Jimmi Bott was the drummer at the time of the incident I recounted here.

Jimmi Bott is currently busy with other projects and occasionaly shows up in the Jim Wallace Band and is producing a CD for his father and Wallace.

Kid Ramos a real rocker on guitar, adds an entirely new dimension to the group, he pushes the edge and takes the band to a level beyond the blues.

The only original T-bird left is Kim Wilson so on the strength of his name and reputation you could easily tour a band. Why not?

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 08:59:39 (GMT)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Brian Smith
Subject: correction/
Message:

It's late and I just proof read my post too late, wallace is the harp player not fran, I somehow got out of sequence with my thoughts and with fran back on board you have two original birds in the band.

I am going to bed, goodnight

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Date: Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 22:15:23 (GMT)
From: Chuck Sprague
Email: bctanda@hotmail.com
To: Brian Smith
Subject: I know what you mean, but isn't it involuntary?...
Message:

Hi Brian.

With the movie star last night, I had discussed the menu with her and her friend, chatted a bit, like I would with any customer. It was only when she went to pay the bill, and we saw her name, that the penny dropped.

Suddenly, I was seeing her differently, and I HATED that. Intelectually, I knew better. She was still the same person I had been talking to earlier. But now I was having this 'darshan' experience from her, similar to what I described about Robin Williams in a post below on Nigel's thread ''Euphoria and the Darshan Rush'', which has just gone into the Inactive Index.

The celebrity Darshan experience seems INVOLUNTARY to me. Why? I don't consider myself a groupie, I don't gush over movie stars, yet I have this involuntary feeling.

When I first came to SF, my first job was a bank Teller. At the branch I worked at, one of the customers was Boss Scaggs. You probably have heard of him Brian, I think he's a famous Jazz musician.

I had heard of the name before, but I had never seen his picture or seen or heard him perform, that I was aware of. So he was not a celebrity to me.

The bank staff would gush over him, and fuss over him, (which he loved of course), but to me he was just this old hippy guy with a pony tail and a nice bank balance. A nice enough guy. But the bank staff would keep saying, ''Don't you KNOW who he IS''? I could feel the energy from THEIR enthusiasm, but the guy himself did nothing for me. No darshan. Because he was not a celebrity to ME.

When I first saw M, it was right after recieveing K, and only three months after first hearing about him. The celebrity darshan I got from him was really quite small. I hadn't seen much of him, and I was more curious than anything else.

Six years later, when I accidently breached his security barrier and ran into him by chance in an elevator lobby, the celebrity darshan experience was much stronger. By then, I had been seeing him on stage and on videos, and listening to him on audio cassetes for years. He was an established celebrity in my mind. If I had attributed god-like, LOTU qualities to him as well, I'm sure my experience would have been much stronger.

I want to know WHY this happens? Interestingly enough, Andy says he got no darshan experience from the movie star last night, it made no difference to him at all. He said he has never had any kind of experinece from meeting a celebrity. Intellectually I agree with him, but on an emotional level, something involuntary seems to happen. Why?

Any thoughts on this, anyone?

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Date: Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 05:06:25 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Chuck Sprague
Subject: Andy is SO cool! n/t
Message:

n/t

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 04:39:02 (GMT)
From: Someone who knows
Email: None
To: Chuck Sprague
Subject: It's not 'Boss' Skaggs but Bozz Skaggs and he is
Message:

not a jazzer, but more of a roots/pop kinda guy. So, without knowing his True Name how could you possibly be darshanned????
(thought I knew the Boss once tho)

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Date: Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 00:26:09 (GMT)
From: Chuck Sprague
Email: bctanda@hotmail.com
To: Someone who knows
Subject: Correct Spelling = Good Darshan. Thanks ;) NT
Message:

nt

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 00:08:11 (GMT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: Pat /Brian /Chuck
Subject: The Illusion of Celebrity
Message:

Great posts guys & way too much food for thought to digest let alone respond to adequately .

I think that meeting a celebrity can blow your social fusebox because you suddenly realise that you know lots of stuff about a perfect stranger . You can't get into a normal conversation & build up a picture you know it already , & you also know that the picture although probably broadly accurate is certainly skewed on various points , but which ones etc . I mean saying something normal like 'where're you from' , you know that already .Mindfuck.

The power celebrities have is ersatz , manufactured by others , that must make THEIR social relations a nightmare .

Some years ago the work I was doing brought me into contact with individuals who have real power , power through their direct decisions to affect the lives of thousands & through their advice to those even more powerful than themselves , millions .

I got a great rush from talking ,
being privy on occasion to 'the real story' & finding out what they thought . A different sort of darshan , possibly like that of the x-rated premies .

Thing is these guys despised all celebrities but were perfectly prepared to use them (& anyone else ) in the interest of getting the job done . Indeed they seemed to think that celebrities were only created for that very purpose .

As to the job that needs doing : keeping the whole magic circus up & running at a time when it's clear that no-one really knows how the whole edifice hangs together . But they know that's always been the case so what's the difference .

Hold onto good manners & the rule of law , know how to eat a peach with a knife & fork , know you're capable of being a total motherfucker if left unrestrained & get on with ruling the hoi-polloi .

Rawat has recently floated into the view of the French wing of the global ruling class as a potential problem : darshan won't wing it there .

He farted in the wrong restaurant :Pat Dorrity

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Date: Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 23:47:42 (GMT)
From: Peter Howie
Email: None
To: Chuck Sprague
Subject: Very involuntary - for a while
Message:

My take on this stuff is that the response takes about a nano-second. And it is all about making inferences based on filtered data. And these inferences are effectively instantaneous.

For instance - in Australia when the media has a story about aborigines (read people that lived here for 50,000 years before the British colonization) that is marginally negative - they will also put up a picture of a drunken aboriginal street bum - or of a person that certainly looks like one. As soon as the pictre is sighted BOOM - aborigines a drunks, can't look after themselves and need help is the instant inference - though now my inference is 'Useless media outlets purveying negative stereotypes'.

Another example would be in Britian where they had a big public outing of the names and addresses of convicted pedaephiles - and some poor bigger whose name was similar to a convited chap got his house stoned, and got hospitalised. Now the people there were full of hatred immediately for this person and it wasn't even him. Yet the hatred was real.

Another example that has been seen here - someone sees Maharaj ji at a distance and feels real bliss - and when that person comes closer they find it is a servant/brother/someone with a decent tan and build. Instant response.

The 'Ladder of Inference' is a useful lookup with an internet search. Peter Senge popularised it recently.

On the upside this instant inferential process lets us lead an OK life by not having to experience everything as brand new. There are many if not most things that we can accept for what they are and leave it at that. e.g. The light has changed to red. I and others will be stopping. If not an accident will ensue. e.g. I am wanted and liked.

By thinking back through the infernetial process - what conclusions have I based that belief on, what assumptions have I based those conclusions on, what meaning of which data have I chosen to belive, and what other meaning could I come to and what other data could I pay attention to certainly is the cognitive way of unravelling.

Like ingrained stereotyping processes such as racism - they take ages to get rid of. I was recently in our city centre and there was a large group (about 40) of african american service personel from a docked US aircraft-carrier mucking around and singing and dancing in a cirlce. They seemed to be having a great old time. However I noticed that MY responses where along the lines of 'They look dangerous', 'Is this all getting a bit rowdy'. I noticed that they all looked like they could have been crooks in a hollywood movie. I couldn't shake the feeling that as I looked at them I kept imagining them as about to start fights or go on a rampage. Now Australia is very white and at times very racist. Mostly I see few aboriginal people or any people of dark colour. Heaps of paler asian and mid-eastern complexions. So most of my response is based on the highly selvetive and biased US based hollywood style movies. My bet is that those guys felt like they were in 'Hicksville' and I sure felt like a hick.

Cheers for now

Peter Howie

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Date: Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 11:47:21 (GMT)
From: Carl
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Learned and projected aura = emporer's clothes /nt
Message:

yowza

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Date: Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 11:33:12 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: PatC
Subject: By The Way, That's Better Than Doggie Darshan
Message:

I've been hanging out with Shania Twain and Bryan Adams lately and I had a smoke with Mick Jagger a few months ago. He was with Sting at the time.

Steve

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Date: Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 16:11:09 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Steve Quint
Subject: Mick
Message:

Mick talked about two things - owning a studio in North Vancouver and about the time he worked on the song '2000 Light Years From Home'. I'm listening to it now. Here are the lyrics.

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Date: Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 12:07:10 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Steve Quint
Subject: And
Message:

I shook hands with Charles Prince Of Wales when he was in Canada a few months ago. I saw his parents from a distance of twenty five feet and we waved.

Steve

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Date: Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 11:25:42 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: PatC
Subject: I had Movie Star darshan last night (long post)
Message:

Fuck you, Pat.

By the way, a lady I met at the pub Saturday insisted I confess that I was gay. I finally did, so I guess I've come out of the closet.

Love Ya, Ya Shmuck,

Steve

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Date: Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 18:18:19 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: pdconlon@yahoo.com
To: Steve Quint
Subject: Rock stars, queens and coming out of the closet
Message:

I don't think I'd get shaktipat from rock stars and royalty as I don't stand in awe of their schtick.

I still haven't figured out when you're joking, Steve. Have you?

If you're serious, I wish you all the best. Coming out of the closet is the best thing you can do for your mental health. Lies and secrets are sure way to end up feeling alienated and isolated from the human race. I got out of the cult because it felt like another closet.

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 01:18:46 (GMT)
From: Carl
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Amen, brother, Amen to that !!! BTW - - -
Message:

Can you imagine the real discrimination and inner struggle necessary for getting free of the cult if M was a real hunk, I mean, a drop-dead gorgeous, buff and chiseled, studly specimen of male pulchritude?

That 'test' is one we've been mercifully spared!

LoL,

Carl

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 07:53:59 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Carl
Subject: Hunks aren't my type. I'm a snob.
Message:

And Rawat just does not have class. If he'd been a decent solid citizen type without all the puffed-up ego, greed and pomposity; if he'd been a sensible, modest, democratic guy with a mind open to learning and growing and being part of the human race instead of some show-off silly, lower class nouveau riche, uneducated piece of Hindu trash from Hardwar - yes then I might still be stuck in the guru trip. I'm glad he was a useless piece of opportunistic detritus. It cured me of the guru mystique.

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 11:36:59 (GMT)
From: Carl
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: I hear you
Message:

Although I was going for humor with that M-as-a-hunk thought experiment, I do hear you loud and clear concerning what are the truly attractive (or truly revealing) human qualities of the inner character as manifest in actions and attitude.

M shouldn't forget that once having placed himself in the public arena as 'greater than God', he will naturally invite critical curiosity (at the very least) into his decision-making and the nature of his organization, and his 'product'. Not to mention his personal qualities.

So now it's all about ahow business, getting paying butts into seats, pushing expensive trinkets to a manipulated marketplace, and extorting an emotional dependency based on cosmic regret and fear.

This is sad, sick stuff. What next?

Best wishes,
Carl

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 18:36:07 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Carl
Subject: A hunk a hunk of burnin love
Message:

He is not hot - not even warm. He is a cold and calculating phony. I think in the first ten years his youthful enthusiasm came over as love but basically he's always been a selfish asshole.

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Date: Tues, Jun 26, 2001 at 20:57:03 (GMT)
From: such
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: da Godfather's wife used 2 ask me 2 sing that! (nt
Message:

nt

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