Date: Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 00:52:01 (GMT) From: ExTex Email: None To: shp Subject: Continued Thread From Way Back Message:

You (shp) left off with this ps, below: ps I imagine you see a paradox in my support of both Nader and Maharaji....but your tone is conversational enough and you seem to be sure enough and secure enough in yourself that you don't have to attack me just because we disagree about the latter. I'll be looking for your e-mail or posting. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Well I am the one who brought up Ralph Nader, and I really don't want to get into a big heated political debate with my forum-mates...so maybe I opened a can of worms. (And YES I also support Nader and what he stands for.) But having said that, let me respond to your question. Actually I wouldn't use the word 'paradox' about you being able to support M and also Nader. What I would call it is a HEALTHY direction. In the former days when you were required to show up to formal satsang meetings every night...there was no time to be involved in much of anything other than M & his 'mission'. Of course this was very intentionally designed to keep premies from 'spacing-out', ie Being involved in the real world outside of the cult. For you and other devotees of Rawat to be involved with concerns and activities OUTSIDE of Rawatism is a mature and healthy thing because it will help you to get a better perspective on the cult,your relationship to it and yourself. (I don't feel you need to respond to this next stuff but please just give it some serious thought) As I have said..I was a practising devotee of GM for quite some time. When I began to lose confidence in the perfect master it did not happen over night. The indoctrination will not allow that. It also will not allow it to happen without a good deal of confusion, self-doubt, and fear! However, my experience was that these feelings were not right out front in my mind...no. They skirted around in the background because I couldn't allow them to just pop up and be center stage. I NEVER ALLOWED MYSELF THE OPPORTUNITY to discuss any of it with anyone! I certainly could not talk to my fellow premies about it. And not always because I might not have found a sympathetic ear! BUT MOSTLY because it was too hard to go against all of the satsang that I MYSELF HAD GIVEN FOR YEARS!! To begin to understand that I was wrong and had made way too much of a commitment to the whole damn thing was terrifying. This was just unthinkable even though I had profound doubts about the whole experience. IT IS CALLED (cliche) DENIAL! So what I did was start more and more getting involved in NON premie activities...with whatever rationalization I could muster up ...TO MYSELF. I started (gasp!) making contact with non premie friends. I started dropping the verbalizations about M&K out of my dialogue (INTERNAL & external)... I never made a big announcement to others nor did I even allow myself to dwell much on the fact that I was allowing myself to 'drift'. Time went by and I slowly got more involved in NON-PREMIE activities (read: the real world) for the majority of my time. I read non 'spiritual' oriented books (history, biographies, fiction, etc) and slowly reinvented myself, but NEVER EVER TALKED ABOUT MY PREMIE HISTORY! I realize now that I was totally embarrassed and ashamed of my being exploited. But in a totally pschizoid way I still 'felt' superior to others (a new wife, friends, workmates, etc) because I 'had a spiritual secret'. More cult indoctrination that would take YEARS and YEARS to nullify! THE POINT OF ALL THIS BLABBER IS THIS: You do not just up and one day go from being a practising devotee of Rawat and the next day go..AHA I quit! It is a long process that you mostly aren't aware of as it is happening. There is a tremendous amount of fear and insecurity built into the 'arrested developement' fostered by a cult. It can be painful and humiliating. It can make you furious.. at anything but Rawat. Most probably you will be drifting from the fold before you even know that is what you are doing. That's okay. Just take life a step at a time, do your meditation if you feel like it and try to see where YOU ARE NOT OPEN MINDED ANYMORE about other people and things. Get involved in things that you care about...where ever they may appear. Or take time to drop out of things and that means the cult too. So support Nader and The Greens, enjoy some live music, do whatever...IF RAWAT IS GOD ...He will understand....Remember that THAT THING is suppose to be the core of your very being....if that is so then YOU CANNOT MISPLACE IT! Don't worry, relax, take a deep breath and grab life by the throat and shake it!! And there is no reason to attack you or other premies that show up here EXCEPT OUT OF SHEER FRUSTRATION! Many of you keep trying to tell us about M and the 'experience of K'. This is maddeningly arrogant as we are ALL former premies!!! WE KNOW AS MUCH (OR MORE) AS ANY OTHER PREMIES! Some premies lie or make ridiculously huge rationalizations, justifications and excuses for blatantly bogus things. This does get old and at times tempers will flare...words will fly...not out of hate, but sheer frustration. I have no problem with agreeing to disagree, as long as lying and falsehoods are not being perpetrated. We are not perfect on this site but we seem to TRY TO KEEP THE COMPANY OF TRUTH. You are obviously not stupid and you seem to be a caring person with a conscience. You also try to be civil. I enjoy the discourse. As far as I am concerned you are welcome here, as long as you don't harangue us with cliched satsang that we all know by heart. You can believe what you like, of course. But this is an EX-premie forum. Peace and Wackiness to You.

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Date: Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 23:13:41 (GMT) From: shp Email: None To: ExTex Subject: Continued Thread From Way Back Message:

Hey ExTex, I just got a chance to check my e-mail from all weekend. Thank you for explaining how you feel. Although I don't presently agree with your point of view, I respect your right to your opinion and experience without my trying to put anything on it. I have a very busy week coming up and not the luxury of spending as much time here as I have recently. I haven't even read this whole thread yet. I catch your drift about engaging in and with life and always knew and agreed with that too. shp

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Date: Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 19:52:39 (GMT) From: Bin Liner Email: None To: ExTex Subject: Continued Thread From Way Back Message:

Thanks Tex, I enjoyed reading that.

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Date: Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 03:35:33 (GMT) From: Tex Email: None To: ExTex Subject: Really Red (ot) Message:

Hey guy, good to hear you, couldn’t figure out who you where, someone else put it together. I won’t out you, I was the guy who put up the beaded curtain. Alas, I can’t join the club, though reading here for several years I have faced some of the clutter.

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Date: Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 05:00:06 (GMT) From: ExTex Email: None To: Tex Subject: Really Red (ot) Message:

Bingo! Do I know you...or the 'someone else' who put it together? The beaded curtain clue was a bit vague...it has been a long time. Give me another clue.

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Date: Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 07:59:34 (GMT) From: ExTex Email: None To: Tex Subject: Tex are you out there? (OT) Message:

I am completely baffled as to who you are. The reference in your 'subject' narrows it some, but that just makes it more curious....as it is a reference to a post-premie time! I hope you post me another clue or two. You have really tweaked my curiousity...and it is driving me bats! Please post again. Thanks

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Date: Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 08:37:33 (GMT) From: Tex Email: None To: ExTex Subject: Tex are you out there? (OT) Message:

Well... the other was your premie house papa. Playing golf with him in the morn.

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Date: Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 09:25:26 (GMT) From: ExTex Email: None To: Tex Subject: Tex are you out there? (OT) Message:

If that is former 'Beeks' partner... Wow! GIVE HIM MY BEST REGARDS! Now who could you be? The Mars Man? A former police cadet? A saxophone player? A man with a truck company? Father of the 'Sky'? Hmmmm I'm stumped. Beaded curtain? Hmmm....

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Date: Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 18:06:46 (GMT) From: Tex Email: None To: ExTex Subject: Tex are you out there? (OT) Message:

You got it, 'The Beeks', not dennis,max,grevs,neils,or allen. I was 'The Exterminator', or the guy sleeping in the bed across the room. Anyway, I think I am taking up to much OT time here and if you want to talk in these forum formats, I would feel much safer in AG forum or the 'Lifes a Shoe' forum. I go by Wm or Mw.

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Date: Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 18:48:22 (GMT) From: ExTex Email: None To: ALL Subject: Does anyone know what..... (OT) Message:

...forums are being refered to by Tex in his last post? He's an old roommate from one of the premie houses I lived in. It has been a long long long time. I am curious. thanks for any info.

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Date: Mon, Oct 02, 2000 at 21:10:17 (GMT) From: ExTex Email: None To: ALL Subject: Disregard above question, sorry.(NT) Message:

nt

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Date: Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 02:22:40 (GMT) From: bill Email: None To: ExTex Subject: shp is a total waste of time. Message:

Hi ex tex, good post. part of the annoyance of shp is his LONG time here that was spent teaseing us with his bullshit. He wasted our time in a thousand ways. You are new to him and dont know that he is not honest or sincere. His ailment is more than the premie dilemma. He is one of those people that suck the life out of those that he lives with. Others have verbalized his condition very well. I cant do the job they did. I wont read him.

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Date: Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 23:16:09 (GMT) From: shp Email: None To: bill Subject: you're halfway home, bill. now stop commenting Message:

about me and you will be truly free. You're still talking to me only one step removed. Let go!

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Date: Mon, Oct 02, 2000 at 01:36:59 (GMT) From: bill Email: None To: shp Subject: I will assist those that you ensnare sometimes-nt Message:

;lrrg

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Date: Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 03:22:59 (GMT) From: ExTex Email: None To: bill Subject: If shp is a total waste of time.. Message:

Thanks for the warning. I admit that I am new here and there is a whole lot that I missed that might put perspective on things going on now. I have also seen the wankers who are either plants or insincere flaming arseholes who just are here to disrupt and annoy. (shroom, fer instance) I know you are sincere about your warning in this case and it is appreciated. But do not take offense if I say that I try to take everyone on their merits or lack of them that I experience and perceive myself. (perception is such a slippery slope sometimes, that I try to rely on my own...if possible). Also I believe that we should always allow people the room to grow and change....an asshole can learn and change....and it isn't very constructive or supportive to hold people to 'who they WERE', when they might be growing and changing. They might be TRYING but also trying to hold on to a shred of dignity as they see their errors. We all do that, and should be able to spot it in others (but it is kind of hard in cyberspace) Just think if we were forever judged on our past statements and actions? (I cringe in horror....I satsanged my parents, my sister, and all my friends into getting indoctrinated!!!) We have got to try to allow these curious premies who come here to have a shred of dignity...as M has already taken almost all of their self esteem. I've got nothing to lose. Being civil and giving someone the benefit of the doubt ain't no skin off my ass. If they are playing games...give 'em enough rope and they will hang themselves! Then 'FLAME-ON!!' Shredding time! And I think I can hold my own and give no quarter to die-hard arseholes. Thanks again, Bill.

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Date: Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 23:20:34 (GMT) From: shp Email: None To: ExTex Subject: If shp is a total waste of time.. Message:

To my sensibilities, yours is the way of a devotee of truth, whether you are with Maharaji or not, as described in how you treat others. -shp

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Date: Mon, Oct 02, 2000 at 01:35:19 (GMT) From: bill Email: None To: shp Subject: please dont post to me. Message:

at least I am being more real about those around me

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Date: Mon, Oct 02, 2000 at 12:26:08 (GMT) From: shp Email: None To: bill Subject: indulge me this once, bill Message:

We know each other, man. Back up in Hartford when I was bouncing around and you were part of the premie community. We were friends. I am not addressing you as a persuasion back to Maharaji. This is just between you and me. We both know he wants premies to leave folks alone about him if they don't want to hear it. But all you guys do is talk about him around here, so it's my input you don't like, not the fact that I am talking about him. In a Forum, a variety of ideas are presented. Right? And I assure you it is not my intention to 'save' anybody here and bring them 'back' or anything like that. We disagree, that's all there is to it. I don't claim the moral high ground here and I don't think you have the right to either. Our experience of/with Maharaji is different. Why do you have such an urgent need to demonize me? There are people who feel the same way about you as you feel about me and have stories to back them up too. But I try to tune all that out. I believe in one-to-one relationships being the truest level of human contact outside one's own self, and when you try to create a war between two sides of any issue, you end up with good hearted, well-meaning, hardworking fathers facing each other with guns on battlefields, having no personal gripes and having much in common, being manipulated into pawns of the agendas of others. It will never come to that with us I am pretty sure, but there sure is alot of cyerwar going on here and I see no need for it. I wish you and your family all the best, sandy

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Date: Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 04:50:54 (GMT) From: bill Email: None To: ExTex Subject: shp is a total waste of time.. Message:

I wouldnt call him an asshole. Just that so many people spent vast amounts of time with him here and he was leading us on. These days he has a different forum face but he will lead you on and not listen to what you say. You are resonable and sensible in your posts to him. If you find it is useful to stretch out on a subject using his post as a vehicle, that is one thing. At least you (and us that read you) can enjoy your expression. If you post for his benefit in any way, he is stealing your time. He is not interested. He has pretended way too much to many people here. He is abusive.

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Date: Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 02:00:37 (GMT) From: Rob Email: None To: ExTex Subject: *Very well put ExTex* Good reading for all. nt Message:

nt

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