Date: Sun, Oct 22, 2000 at 01:33:43 (GMT) From: La-ex Email: None To: Michael Dettmers Subject: A few questions for Michael Dettmers Message:

Michael-I have a number of questions for you...here's a few... A few years ago a premie named Danny Blood came through a community on the east coast and ended up staying for almost a year. Supposedly he was at the residence for a long time in the 70's and early 80's and was told by m that he wanted him to 'friends' with m, rather than a 'devotee'. He told us many stories about smoking dope and drinking heavily with m late into the night, and actually carrying m up to his bedroom a number of times because he was so wasted. He also told stories about some of m's 'tests'. He claimed that one time he was in the garage with m, and m told him to drink some gasoline from a gas container. He drank some, but didn't swallow it,until m slapped him on the back and he had to swallow. He claimed that the gas turned into nectar, at which point m asked him why he didn't have more faith. I asked him 'do you think m had put a sweet liquid in the container instead of gas, or was it really some sort of miracle, as he believed?'. He thought it was a miracle. I heard of bal bhagwan ji doing similar things at the Long Island residence in the early 70's, but those were practiacl jokes aimed at playing head games with premies. They were fairly mild, and bbj commented on how gullible premies were. Do you believe that maharaji has, or ever had a serious drinking or drug problem at any time? Did you ever witness any tests, or miracles such as the above story? Finally, this is just asking for an opinion, but why do you think that maharaji is posting such obvious revisions of the past? He has to know that so many people know for a fact that he is lying, covering up and deceiving so many. The only thing I can believe is that he and the people around him must be making a calculated decision to lie about the past, and figure that it will piss some people off (who they will lose), but that the 'true believers' will still hang in there with him. With a newly revised past, he is free to 'trawl' for new converts as a 'master' with a 'gift', but not the messianic figure he told tens of thousands he was. I think this must be his strategy, and I also think that he is vastly under-estimating the power of the internet. The whole world is a couple of mouse clicks away from seeing how deceptive he is...how can he pursue such a stupid stategy? Just wondering what you think the reasoning is behind his bizarre moves... Thank you for your posts, and having the guts to do so... La-ex

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Date: Mon, Oct 23, 2000 at 03:30:03 (GMT) From: Michael Dettmers Email: dettmers@gylanix.com To: La-ex Subject: A few questions for Michael Dettmers Message:

La-ex, Here are my answers to your questions: Do you believe that maharaji has, or ever had a serious drinking or drug problem at any time? Yes, I believe he had (has?) a serious drinking problem and I told him so, not out of judgment but out of love and concern. Did you ever witness any tests, or miracles such as the above story? No. Finally, this is just asking for an opinion, but why do you think that maharaji is posting such obvious revisions of the past? To answer this question, I think we have to look at the whole Maharaji phenomenon in context. As I said in an earlier post, he was indoctrinated into an absolute belief system since birth and witnessed first-hand how that system worked at the feet of his father who groomed him to take his place. Thus, when he was eight years old, he already had an embodied identity and a mission in life. How many other eight year olds do you know who were in a similar situation? I certainly don’t. And, he got off to a great start. By the age of 12 he had left India and in just a few short years established a global organization with thousands of people all over the world who dropped everything to dedicate their lives to him. Like it or not, that is real power. He must have felt invincible. That much power and influence over others, however, brought with it a tremendous responsibility because the people he attracted entrusted their hearts and souls to his care. It’s one thing to play with the spoils of power and, as a young person, he had no trouble with that side of the equation. To deal with the other side, however, takes character and maturity which he lacked. I can only assume (since he never discussed it with me) that in time it must have dawned on him that he was not up to the task, that he was not the person he was led to believe he was and that he had led others to believe he was. This inner conflict may account for his drinking problem. Whether or not that is the case is beside the point. The fact is that he failed to assume the responsibility that came with his invitation and our acceptance to surrender our lives to him, and that irresponsibility has been amply demonstrated by the way he handled the ashram situation and the Jagdeo situation, to point out just two examples. One way to deal with this dilemma is to pretend that it never happened, hence his extensive revisionism of the past. Will it work? Time will tell but I doubt it. Too many people got hurt because he failed to honor his part of the bargain. If he wants to change the deal and move on, in my opinion, he must first undo what he did. He owes those who still care whether through anger, grief, sadness, or whatever, an apology and an explanation. It must be sincere and he should be prepared to make amends for the consequences of his actions. Michael

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Date: Mon, Oct 23, 2000 at 21:40:36 (GMT) From: Scott T. Email: None To: Michael Dettmers Subject: The 'Little Princes.' Message:

Michael: If he wants to change the deal and move on, in my opinion, he must first undo what he did. He owes those who still care whether through anger, grief, sadness, or whatever, an apology and an explanation. It must be sincere and he should be prepared to make amends for the consequences of his actions. If he were able to acquire the maturity to do that after reaching 40 it truly would be a miracle. Reminds me of some chimpanzee studies I saw documented awhile ago. The group is led by a female 'queen' and a sort of 'royal family.' The young male offspring of the queen are treated like princes, and get into the habit of demanding and receiving special treatment, including sexual favors. The females in the group are, however, attracted to males of low status from other groups, and as a rule in order to work their way up through the hierarchy males have to leave one group and join another. If the queen dies all of the former royal family fall in status, and have to join this group changing procedure. The 'young princes' never seem to get the hang of this re-socialization process, and often end up as outcasts or are killed because they don't know how to behave appropriately around others. --Scott

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Date: Mon, Oct 23, 2000 at 18:37:58 (GMT) From: Nigel Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk To: Michael Dettmers Subject: Great analysis Michael - Thanks. (nt) Message:

nt

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Date: Mon, Oct 23, 2000 at 18:09:15 (GMT) From: Joe Email: None To: Michael Dettmers Subject: Maharaji's Drinking Problem Message:

Michael: I know Mishler said Maharaji had a drinking problem back in the mid-70s, and I was told by people around Maharaji in the mid-80s that he continued to have one then. As a premie myself, I never had any idea about this. I was told that his drink of choice was exprensive, imported, cognac. When you say Maharaji had a drinking problem, how did that manifest? He he get drunk all the time, did his personality change when he drank? Did Maharaji drink during programs? To you knowledge, did he ever drink before going on-stage, etc.? As I said, I had not idea about any of this as a premie, either this, or that fact that Maharaji smoked dope. I'm sure as an ashram premie I wouldn't have believed it if someone told me, unless it was someone who actually was around Maharaji and saw it, and then I'm sure I would have tried to rationalize it in some way. But I'm also sure it would have been a major DRIP in my belief system, and I am positive it would have changed my view of the ashram lifestyle. I'm positive I wouldn't have stayed in the ashram as long as I did had I known these things. It's also very helpful to know that now, in putting all that period into perspective, even though I left the Maharaji cult a long time ago. Indeed, we mimicked Maharaji whenever we could. People wore the cologne he liked, took up tennis when we heard he did, got interested in planes because we knew he was, ate foods he said he liked, mimicked phrases he used, and wore clothes that he tossed as some kind of divine gift. To have known that he had a drinking problem and smoked dope would have had a big impact. But I think even more than this, knowing that he really wasn't interested in our welfare would have been even more significant. Joe

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 03:44:51 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Joe Subject: Look who's talking about a drinking problem! Message:

exprensive, imported, cognac, Joe?

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Date: Mon, Oct 23, 2000 at 04:59:54 (GMT) From: The Eye of the storm Email: None To: Michael Dettmers Subject: A few questions for Michael Dettmers Message:

Michael Try this. M has never reversed his teachings regarding Knowledge or the master. (And as you may remember,when last down south of the equator there is nothing finer than a credit card and a quality marble surface. TooT TooT!!!)All aboard!!. I didn't bother me.

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Date: Mon, Oct 23, 2000 at 14:38:24 (GMT) From: Joe Email: None To: The Eye of the storm Subject: That's ridiculous -- MANY 'reversals' Message:

Dear Eye: I question if you have actually been around Maharaji and his cult, or maybe you have been deluded by Maharaji or have deluded yourself, because the following statement of yours is just plain false and thousands of people will testify that it is: Try this. M has never reversed his teachings regarding Knolwedge or the master. Just as an example of Maharaji's more blatant 'reversals', but an absolutely fundamental one, from about 1976 to 1985, Maharaji preached that the purpose of life, was devotion to the perfect master, which just happened to be him. This was a major reversal from what he had been saying before (that the purpose of a human life was to experience and realize knowledge through practicing it) and apparently what he has been saying for the past number of years which is a direct reversal from the two earlier positions (that devotion is no longer the center of the purpose of one's existence, that there is no 'realization' just an experience and some gratitude.) Again, these are not just packaging changes, as the Elan Vital website falsely claims, they are fundamental to what Maharaji was and is preaching. As another example, when I was a premie from 1873 - 1983, Maharaji had 5 commandments which his devotees were supposed to follow and which were also an essential part of the practice of knowledge, and Maharaji has quietly abandoned all of them, including: CONSTANTLY MEDITATE: the preaching was you should try to meditate 24/7, and now, I think Maharaji suggests meditating an hour a day or something. NEVER LEAVE ROOM FOR DOUBT IN YOUR MIND: This commandment, the essence of a cult, was that you should repress all doubts. He has also abandoned this one. Also remember that a premie was supposed to attend 'satsang' everyday and premies were also to GIVE satsang. This is another major 'reversal.' These are just a few of the major reversals and changes Maharaji has made to knowledge as well as the role of the master. There are many, many more that can be used as examples, unless you are too cult-programmed to recognize them.

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 08:23:11 (GMT) From: Ground Zero Email: None To: Joe Subject: That's ridiculous -- Nil 'reversals' Message:

Been around since 1971. I repeat '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' Never reversed his teachings regarding K or the Master' :) :) :) :) :) :) . Peripheral and interpreted. Try walking a mile in my shoes. You just don't know. Not interested in your cult blues. Not interested in your bitchin and fightin. What a fool believes.....he sees

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 16:27:59 (GMT) From: Joe Email: None To: Ground Zero Subject: There are none so blind as will not see.. Message:

Isn't that how the phrase goes? I think that applies here, in your case. Good luck.

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Date: Wed, Oct 25, 2000 at 02:13:58 (GMT) From: A Pamela Email: None To: Joe Subject: There are none so blind as will not see..Ditto!(nt Message:

sgbhjgmryj,

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Date: Mon, Oct 23, 2000 at 17:20:29 (GMT) From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: Joe Subject: 1873? Man, you ARE an old timer!! nt Message:

I know, it's a typo, but I just couldn't help it.

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Date: Mon, Oct 23, 2000 at 17:57:23 (GMT) From: Joe Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: Yes, going on 150, I'm getting up there :) (nt) Message:

nt

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Date: Wed, Oct 25, 2000 at 03:54:40 (GMT) From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: Joe Subject: But you look Marvelous!! :) (nt) Message:

Well, you do for being 150!

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Date: Mon, Oct 23, 2000 at 14:47:55 (GMT) From: Susan Email: None To: Joe Subject: great post Joe (nt) Message:

nt

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Date: Sun, Oct 22, 2000 at 18:41:54 (GMT) From: carol Email: None To: La-ex Subject: The entrance to his website would scare many away! Message:

Or else make nagative impression!

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Date: Sun, Oct 22, 2000 at 18:16:37 (GMT) From: a0aji Email: None To: La-ex Subject: A few questions for Michael Dettmers Message:

I just have to say that second-hand accounts of people drinking gasoline that turns into nectar are less than worthless -- that's the very stuph that was circulated as 'evidence' the first time around. I never saw anything remotely divine -- never. The best I could do was one night I saw a meteorite -- fantastic, but brief. I found out a long time later that hundreds of people on the east cost of US saw it too; it is regularly mentioned now in programs about meteorites. Of the whack stories I heard that seemed first-hand accounts, I did not trust the teller.

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Date: Sun, Oct 22, 2000 at 09:57:12 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: La-ex Subject: God actually MADE the Net to denounce such frauds! Message:

Rawat didn't start this turn last year ! He did in the mid-80s ! Nobody would even think of DARING contradict the Lord at that time ! That was His Lila, and he was bending his devotees' mind because that was some sort of divine plan, to make him acceptable for the western society. And everybody (himself included) believed that was what was necessary for him to be recognized. The Internet is something that he never imagined, even though he was omniscient ........ I guess if there really is a God, He made the Internet possible to renounce such frauds !!! haha

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