Vicki -:- IRS -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 23:18:15 (EST)

__ cq -:- Important IRS info here -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 07:20:34 (EST)

__ __ Cynthia -:- Careful, Folks... -:- Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 10:10:54 (EST)

__ __ __ Francesca :~) -:- RIGHT ON, CYNTHIA -:- Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 14:17:44 (EST)

__ __ __ cq -:- Good point there, Cynthia -:- Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 12:44:04 (EST)

__ __ __ __ Francesca -:- AND CHRIS is right also -:- Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 14:19:15 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ cq -:- would like to make one thing very clear -:- Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 15:23:46 (EST)

__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- To be more specific... -:- Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 13:51:25 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ cq -:- and right you were to, too :) (nt) -:- Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 14:51:17 (EST)

__ __ Loaf -:- Q11 is a good one [nt] -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 11:28:25 (EST)

__ __ The Maharaji of Malibu -:- answers some tough ones-thanks CQ -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 08:59:02 (EST)

__ __ __ cq -:- LoL! Now answer this, M of M -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 14:38:08 (EST)

__ __ Occasional Poster -:- Re: Important IRS info here -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 08:46:35 (EST)

__ __ __ cq -:- Ask and it shall be given unto thee ... -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 14:14:08 (EST)

__ __ __ __ janet -:- i can't see PDF- can you -:- Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 04:47:32 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ cq -:- Re: i can't see PDF- can you -:- Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 12:53:11 (EST)

__ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Good show! Can Canadians participate -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 21:25:25 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ janet -:- of course--let's do it -:- Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 04:51:22 (EST)

__ __ janet -:- le's sue for the info -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 07:21:58 (EST)

__ __ __ cq -:- Sue? Apparently you just have to ask for it (nt) -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 08:00:11 (EST)

__ janet -:- not voluntarily, you mean. [nt] -:- Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 04:28:49 (EST)

Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 23:18:15 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: All
Subject: IRS
Message:

What happens if Mr. Rawat, Maharaji, the Speaker, actually got a conscience and apologized for the past thirty years' worth of gleefully accepting roughly a billion dollars under false pretenses? What would happen to Elan Vital's tax free status? What would happen to his tax rate if he admitted contributions destined for Elan Vital really supported him and his family?

The IRS wouldn't possibly want back taxes on all this would they? Elan Vital wouldn't have their church status cover blown, would they?

That's why he will never, ever apologize to anyone, Abi included, because he will never fork over his own fortune to the IRS or lose his personal cash cow, commonly known as Elan Vital.

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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 07:20:34 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: Important IRS info here
Message:

I've just discovered a document giving info to non-profit organisations, charities, churches etc (click here for extract).

It says quite clearly that even tax-exempt churches have to provide, to anyone who requests it, a copy of Form 1023.

EV's form would make interesting reading, because included in the info that the charity/church are required to give, we find the following:

Assets:

1 Cash
2 Accounts receivable, net
3 Inventories
4 Bonds and notes receivable (attach schedule)
5 Corporate stocks (attach schedule)
6 Mortgage loans (attach schedule)
7 Other investments (attach schedule)
8 Depreciable and depletable assets (attach schedule)
9 Land
10 Other assets (attach schedule)
11 Total assets (add lines 1 through 10)

Liabilities:

12 Accounts payable
13 Contributions, gifts, grants, etc., payable
14 Mortgages and notes payable (attach schedule)
15 Other liabilities (attach schedule)
16 Total liabilities (add lines 12 through 15)

Fund Balances or Net Assets:

17 Total fund balances or net assets
18 Total liabilities and fund balances or net assets (add line 16 and line 17)

(a blank copy of the full Form 1023 can be downloaded from the IRS main website).

The would-be 'church' also has to answer these questions: click here

How they ever got the IRS to classify them as a 'church' is beyond me!

I wonder what the penalty for tax-fraud is, in the US these days?

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Date: Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 10:10:54 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Careful, Folks...
Message:

Before you flood the place with requests, please read the last question at the bottom of this post. IT would be best, IMO, for only one person do make this request. Ah, there are always loopholes.

re. Complying with requests for information

What type of organization does this apply to?

It applies to every organization that has received an exempt determination from the IRS under any section of 501(c) or 501(d).

This includes churches that have established their exempt status. Even though they do not have to file Form 990 and thus do not have to make these forms available for inspection, they must still make the Form 1023 available for inspection, and make copies available if requested. It also applies to non-exempt private foundations and nonexempt charitable trusts described in Section 4947(a) that are subject to Section 6033 information reporting requirements.

Although the April, 1999 regulations putting these requirements into effect specifically exclude private foundations, the final regulations for private foundations were issued in January of 2000, effective March 13. In addition, the requirement that 3 years of 990-PF's must be furnished begins with the 2000 filing.

Where can someone come to inspect/get copies of the documents?

What if we have more than one office?

What if we do not have a regular office?

The documents must be made available for inspection at the organization's principal office, and (if the organization has more than one office) any regional or district offices, during regular business hours. A regional or district office is any office that has either full or part-time paid employees, whose aggregate number of weekly working hours is normally at least 120 (e.g. three full time employees or their part-time equivalents). However a site is not a regional ordistrict office if the only services provided are to further the exempt purposes of the organization (such as a day care center, clinic, etc.) and the site does not serve as an office for management staff, other than those involved solely in managing the exempt function activities at the site.

An organization with regional or district offices has 30 days from the date its informational return is filed with the IRS to provide copies to the regional or district offices.

The organization may have a representative in the room during the inspection. However, the person inspecting must be allowed to take notes freely, and if he/she has brought along a copier, to copy the document.

If the organization does not have a permanent office, or has limited office hours, it may comply with the public inspection requirements by making the documents available for inspection at a reasonable location, within a reasonable time period after receiving the request (within 2 weeks), and at a reasonable time of day. It may mail
copies of the requested documents in lieu of allowing an inspection, but may not charge the requester unless he/she consents to pay the charge.

How much can we charge if they want copies?

The organization can charge a reasonable fee, which the regulations define as no more than the fee charged by the IRS for providing copies. This currently is $1.00 for the first page, and $.15 for each additional page. In addition, it may charge the actual postage costs incurred in providing the copies.

The organization may require the individual to pay the fee before providing the copies. If payment is required before the copies are provided and the organization receives a written request, it must advise them of the amount due within seven (7) days from the date of receipt of the initial request. The organization must also respond to any questions from potential requesters concerning the fees for copying and postage of each document, with and without attachments, so that payment may be included with the request.

If prepayment is not required, consent from the requester must be obtained before the copies are provided if the charge for copying and postage will exceed $20.00.

The organization must accept any payment made by cash or money order; it may accept payment in another form. If the request is made in writing, an option to pay either by personal check or by credit card (one or the other) must be provided.

If the requester is advised as to what the fee is and they do not pay the fee within 30 days, or if they pay by check and the check does not clear, you may disregard the request.

Note: If the individual brings a copier to the inspection, he/she must be allowed to make copies directly, at no charge.

How soon do we need to provide copies of the requested documents?

Requests Made In Person. If the request is made in person at the principal, regional or district offices during regular business hours, copies of the documents should be provided on the day the request is made.

If there are unusual circumstances where fulfilling the request will place an unreasonable burden on the organization, copies must be provided no later than the next business day after the unusual circumstances cease to exist, or the fifth business day after the request, whichever occurs first. Unusual circumstances would include such occurrences as receipt of requests that exceed the organization's daily capacity to make copies, requests received shortly before the end of the business day that involve substantial copying, or requests received on a day that the managerial staff capable of fulfilling the request are involved in a special assignment.

A local agent may be retained to process requests made in person for copies of the documents. However, the agentmust be located within reasonable proximity of the office, the name, address and telephone number must be immediately provided to the requester, and the agent must timely furnish the copies.

Requests Made In Writing. An organization receiving a written request for a copy of its application or annual report(s) shall mail each copy within 30 days of receiving the request. However, if payment is required in advance, it must mail the copy within 30 days from the date it receives payment, as long as it has notified the requestor, within 7 days from the date it received the initial request, of its prepayment policy and the amount due.

If the requester consents, the document may be furnished by electronic mail; it will be considered to be furnished on the date the document is successfully transmitted.

A local agent may be retained to process written requests for copies. However, the agent is bound by the terms and conditions (including deadlines) that apply to the organization itself.

Exactly what part of the Exemption Application can someone inspect/ obtain copies?

The application for tax exemption must include any prescribed form (e.g. Form 1023 or Form 1024), all documents and statements filed as a part of the application or as part of any follow-up correspondence in support of the application, and any letters or documents issued by the IRS in regard to the application, including additional questions about the application.

If there is no prescribed form (for example, with an application for a group exemption), the application includes the application letter, copy of the articles of incorporation, bylaws, financial statements, statements describing the organization, its purpose and its activities, and statements showing the sources of the organization's income and the disposition thereof, and any other documents required by the IRS or submitted in support of the application.

Note that if an application is still pending with the IRS and an exempt status is not yet determined, nothing need be furnished. In addition, if there is a part of the application that the IRS is required to withhold from public inspection, the organization need not make that part of the application available.

We don't know where our Exemption Application is. What do we do?

If the application had been filed before July 15, 1987, and the organization did not have a copy of the application on July 15, 1987, it does not have to be made available.

However, if the application was filed on or after July 15, 1987, or if the organization had a copy available on that date, you must find the application.

What Informational Returns have to be provided?

What must be provided as part of the Return?

An exact copy, as filed with the IRS, of any federal informational return (Forms 990, 990-EZ, 990-PF, 990-BL, and (Form 1065) must be made available, including all schedules, attachments and supporting documents. This includes any amended return.

Except for private foundations, you may delete the name and address of any contributor (make sure they are on a separate schedule, easily redacted, so that the IRS does not inadvertently release this information). You also do not have to make available form 990-T (unrelated business taxable income), Schedule A of Form 990-BL, Schedule K-1 of Form 1065, Form 1120-POL, or 990-PF.

Each form must be made available for a period of three (3) years from the later of the date the return is required to be filed (plus extensions), or the date it is actually filed. Any amended return also must be made available for three (3) years from the date it is filed with the IRS.

What if the requester only wants part of the document?

If the requester clearly identifies the requested part or schedule, then that part must be furnished. The organization may not charge the requester for the entire Form 990 if only Schedule A is requested.

What if I think there is a harassment campaign against my organization?

If the IRS district director for the key district in which your organization's principal office is located determines that your organization is the subject of a harassment campaign (requests are part of an effort to disrupt the operations of your organization, rather than to collect information), and that compliance with these requests are not in the public interest, you are not required to provide copies. Facts supporting the finding of a harassment campaign would include a sudden increase in the number of requests, an extraordinary number of requests made through form letters or similarly worded correspondence, requests that contain language hostile to the organization, evidence that the organization has already provided the requested documents, and the like. If you believe that you may be the target of a harassment campaign, you should contact our office so we can assist you in determining what steps you may want to take, which may include applying for a determination that you are the subject of a harassment campaign, and suspending compliance.

It would be appropriate to keep a log of all requests, whether in person or written, so that if a harassment campaign is instituted against your organization, you will have evidence of the type and number of requests normally being received, and documentation of the increased burden.

You may disregard any request for copies of all or part of any document beyond two received within a 30 day period, or four received within a one year period, from the same individual or the same address, without a determination of harassment from the district director.

http://www.dreamwater.net/planetqwerty/info/non_prof.htm
[
Guidelines for Complying to Requests ]

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Date: Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 14:17:44 (EST)
From: Francesca :~)
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: RIGHT ON, CYNTHIA
Message:

Read her post, please. That is why I don't post this type of information on the Forum.

Francesca

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Date: Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 12:44:04 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Good point there, Cynthia
Message:

Good point there, Cynthia

For that self-same reason I've also, in a post below, given the link to the IRS website where anyone can download the document request form and return it (snail mail of course) to the IRS. If anyone's interested in following this up, the non-profit is ELAN VITAL, INC. and Forms 990 and 1023 are the two to ask for (they make a small charge for photocopying expenses)

No matter how many people ask for copies, I don't think the IRS can refuse. The info would be for a valid purpose - investigation into where the money we donated to Rawat/EV went, and we're certainly not out to 'harrass' the IRS!

Also, the info you link to is just an extract - the full document, for those that need it, can be found at http://www.runquist.com/article_IRSTrouble.htm

Best wishes,

Chris

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Date: Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 14:19:15 (EST)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: AND CHRIS is right also
Message:

The IRS is a public agency, and these are public records. Anyone can make a request to the IRS, and pay for the copies.

Francesca

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Date: Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 15:23:46 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: would like to make one thing very clear
Message:

I would like to make ONE thing very clear:

When I said 'we're certainly not out to harrass the IRS' (and I used that word without thinking - sorry folks, for 'we' read 'I'm') - that should NOT be taken as implying that anyone is out to harras EV either.

For all I know NOBODY has yet asked Elan Vital for these relevant public documents.

(thinks - if they had, wouldn't they have posted the results here?)

Which leads to the inevitable question - IN THE FOUR (or more?) YEARS THAT EPO AND ITS ASSOCIATED FORUMS HAVE EXISTED, HAS ANYONE asked Elan Vital for these documents?

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Date: Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 13:51:25 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: To be more specific...
Message:

Hi cq,

What I meant is not to flood Elan Vital with multiple requests because in my post above, it clearly states they can refuse examination of the reports based on the loophole I posted.

I don't think the IRS cares how many request IT gets.

Just wanted to clarify the point.

Best,
Cynthia

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Date: Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 14:51:17 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: and right you were to, too :) (nt)
Message:

and right you were to, too. :) (nt)

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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 11:28:25 (EST)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Q11 is a good one [nt]
Message:

[nt]

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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 08:59:02 (EST)
From: The Maharaji of Malibu
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: answers some tough ones-thanks CQ
Message:

Page 11 Form 1023 (Rev. 9-98)

Schedule A. Churches

1

Provide a brief history of the development of the organization, including the reasons for its formation.It was called DLM but now it's EV and soon it'll change again. It was formed by me pappy who slipped on a bar of soap and died before he could tell me why.

2

Does the organization have a written creed or statement of faith? Yes No-yes

If “Yes,” attach a copy. 'OH my Guru Maharaji, I dedicate my life to you...'

3

Does the organization require prospective members to renounce other

religious beliefs or their membership in other churches or religious orders

to become members? No Yes--No, err yes, it depends on who's asking and at what point they ask it

4

Does the organization have a formal code of doctrine and discipline for

its members? Yes No (see answer to # 3)

If “Yes,” describe.

5

Describe the form of worship and attach a schedule of worship services. Foot kissing ceremonies known as darshan where grattitude is expre$$ed

6

Are the services open to the public? No Yes

If “Yes,” describe how the organization publicizes its services and explain the criteria for admittance. see # 3

7

Explain how the organization attracts new members.very secret public programs

8

(a)

How many active members are currently enrolled in the church?
Don't know due to www.ex-premie.org
(b)

What is the average attendance at the worship services? that depends on what you mean by attendance

9

In addition to worship services, what other religious services (such as baptisms, weddings, funerals, etc.) does the organization conduct?worship of me pappy so I can talk about how I revere my Maharaji so my members can draw the implication about me-I SLICK, I SLICK

10

Does the organization have a school for the religious instruction of the

young? Yes No Yes, in the distant past but no longer due to child molestation issues

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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 14:38:08 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: The Maharaji of Malibu
Subject: LoL! Now answer this, M of M
Message:

The Great and Powerful Maharaji of Malibu has summoned his minions and complelled them, with great cunning and deviousness of heart, to find a way around the machinations of the dark mind of the Inquisitor Pecuniary, the slighty forgetful and inept (though in no way negligent ;)) IRS.

This 'Service' has asked the minions of M of M (known collectively as the E of V) to bear in mind the following:

QUOTE:

'The information submitted with Schedule A will be a
determining factor in granting the “church” status
requested by your organization. In completing the
schedule, consider the following points:

1. The organization’s activities in furtherance of its
beliefs must be exclusively religious, and

2. An organization will not qualify for exemption if it
has a substantial nonexempt purpose of serving the
private interests of its founder or the founder’s family.'

ENDQUOTE

Now tell, me Maharaji of Malibu, did you and your minions answer the IRS' questions honestly and truthfully?

If so, how come you claim that neither Knowledge nor Elan Vital is a religion?

Methinks the general public would think you be diddlin' the taxman. Whether the taxman will think it to be fraud ... well, ... we'll see ....

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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 08:46:35 (EST)
From: Occasional Poster
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Re: Important IRS info here
Message:

cq

Very interesting. In the various questions that are asked to gain exempt (church) status I see that the IRS asks applicants to consider:

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The information submitted with Schedule A will be a
determining factor in granting the “church” status
requested by your organization. In completing the
schedule, consider the following points:

1. The organization’s activities in furtherance of its
beliefs must be exclusively religious, and

2. An organization will not qualify for exemption if it
has a substantial nonexempt purpose of serving the
private interests of its founder or the founder’s family.

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Point 1. I was told by M that EV/DLM was NOT a religious organization. Things must have changed whilst I was not looking!

Point 2. Do we really have to comment on this?

Had a look at the various questions that require answers for gaining exempt status. The following stuck out and I would be very amused as to what actual answers DLM/EV gave!

5
Describe the form of worship and attach a schedule of worship services.

7
Explain how the organization attracts new members.

12
Describe the organization’s religious hierarchy or ecclesiastical government.

17
Will any funds or property of the organization be used by any officer, director,employee, minister, or pastor for his or her personal needs or convenience?

ho hum

Op

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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 14:14:08 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Occasional Poster
Subject: Ask and it shall be given unto thee ...
Message:

seek, and ye shall find. (thinks ... tell it to the IRS)

Anyway, pessimism aside, just click the link above for an Adobe Acrobat copy of Form 4506A (Rev. October 2001) 'Request for Public Inspection or Copy of Exempt or Political Organization IRS Form'

Then just follow the instructions on p2 (it's only a 2-page document) and ...

... oh yes, the document to ask for is Form 1023, for Elan Vital. You could also try asking for Form 990, even though (according to their last letter to me) the IRS claim to be unable to locate it.

And then - let's hear it for PUBLIC ACCOUNTABILITY! (after all, it's our own tax money that subsides these non-profits, isn't it?).

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f4506a.pdf - 22.0KB
[ Click here for IRS form 4506A ]

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Date: Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 04:47:32 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: i can't see PDF- can you
Message:

perhaps download it and cut copy and paste it here in regualr posting format? or as an html. GIF, or jpg format?
WEBTV can't deal with PDF format. we can, however see any webpage done in html code.

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Date: Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 12:53:11 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Re: i can't see PDF- can you
Message:

there's always one isn't there? ;)

As it happens, Janet, Adobe Acrobat files that are full of tables and fancy layout (as the IRS one is) are just about impossible to cut and paste. I've tried it, and the tables are ignored and the text merely floods onto the page with virtually no formatting whatsoever. Scanning the pages could be done, but I don't have access to a scanner at present.

Having said that, if anyone out there knows a way of translating pdf into .doc, .txt, or .html, I'd love to know.

So what options are there for you?

1. Get a local friend with a PC and printer to access the link for you and print it out.
2. Phone the IRS and ask to be sent a copy of Form 4506A, or
3. Just write a letter to EV requesting the forms (but bear in mind Cynthia's proviso/warning in her post above).

The next thing to do?

You guessed it.

Wait.

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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 21:25:25 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Good show! Can Canadians participate
Message:

I'd love to request that their books be opened.

Could people send letters informing the IRS that the donations were solicited illegally as the recipient is a cult leader who had people 'brainwashed' at time?

deb who is just wondering WHY this hasn't been done

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Date: Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 04:51:22 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: of course--let's do it
Message:

and the more requests they gat, from the more places, the more the curiosity is piqued.
this is the Bush Administration. They want money anywhere they can take it from. There's a war on, doncha kno.

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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 07:21:58 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: le's sue for the info
Message:

[nt]

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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 08:00:11 (EST)
From: cq
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Sue? Apparently you just have to ask for it (nt)
Message:

Sue? Apparently you just have to ask for it (nt)

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Date: Tues, Feb 05, 2002 at 04:28:49 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Vicki
Subject: not voluntarily, you mean. [nt]
Message:

[nt]

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