JoAnn -:- Latvian Night -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 20:31:33 (GMT)

__ Deborh -:- Latvian Night--Wish I was there -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 00:24:14 (GMT)

__ Joe -:- Hey JoAnn -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 21:42:42 (GMT)

__ Wildflower -:- Latvian Night -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 13:52:37 (GMT)

__ Joy -:- Latvian Night -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 01:22:52 (GMT)

__ __ Disculta -:- Latvian Night -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 02:03:31 (GMT)

__ __ __ Marianne -:- Latvian Night -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 02:43:42 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Chuck Sprague -:- Latvian Night - no devotional ladder, indeed! -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 05:24:00 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Mercedes -:- Latvian Night - no devotional ladder, indeed! -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 20:38:50 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Great post, Chuck -- really nice (nt) -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 15:52:22 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Francesca -:- ***BEST OF FORUM**** Great post Chas!!! n/t -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 05:43:34 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Joy -:- Yes, Brilliant, Chuck! -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 06:03:35 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Chuck Sprague -:- I think you would have loved it, Joy... -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 07:51:45 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Helen -:- Latvian thoughts -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 21:40:43 (GMT)

__ Francesca -:- Love you JoAnn -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 20:47:27 (GMT)

__ PatC -:- JoAnn, I was so thrilled when I saw you -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 20:43:18 (GMT)

__ __ Deep Tongue -:- To Pia: Last night 24 members of the secret cabal -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 20:46:45 (GMT)

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 20:31:33 (GMT)
From: JoAnn
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Latvian Night
Message:

What a thoroughly enjoyable evening. Yes, ex-premies are full of love and delight. It was really great to see everyone. When I left the ashram, I used to go to 'programs' just to see people and walk away sad -- wondering what and who I was connected to. I left last night wishing this was a 3 day 'event.' Joe, you are simply the best community coordinator ever. Thank you Marianne for putting this together and inviting us to your lovely home. Billy and Mark, may I preside and give blessings on your 50th anniversary (You are the most delightful people.) Selene and EB, I didn't even get to talk to you. Your posts -- all of you who take the time and dare to look at THAT REALITY and speak THE TRUTH for those who either have no voice or whose voices have been taken truly do a service. Franny & Mark -- I just love you. What freedom, no one determines my reality. Yeah, for leaving room for doubt. Thank you one and all for coming out and not being anonymous. I missed the entire conversation on 3-way marriage -- want to know more about this when we vist your restaurant.

Love,
JoAnn

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 00:24:14 (GMT)
From: Deborh
Email: None
To: JoAnn
Subject: Latvian Night--Wish I was there
Message:

Oh you guys had a good time...I believe it. I used to throw some wicked parties myself and I still treasure those memories and other good times. Two years ago, when I peeked into the site to see what was going on, I dropped a message. Mark replied via my email, and told me how people we knew were doing and thanked me for one particular boat party I helped organize and host. Hi Billy--It's nice to hear that you and Mark are still a Hot Couple (20 yrs.) and that your love survived the Concept-Bomber impresses me tremendously.

Party on dudes!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 21:42:42 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: JoAnn
Subject: Hey JoAnn
Message:

So great to see you Saturday night. Yes, it really was a fun evening. I guess there were about 25 people there including a couple of spouses who were never premies. I agree with Chuck, the reason I got into the Maharaji cult was the premies. So many great people, who are even better once they toss-out the charlatan Guru.

Hey, sorry we lost you in the middle of San Francisco. Hope you made it to the Marina okay. And I really hope you chime in on this Forum whenever you feel like it. You have a lot to contribute.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 13:52:37 (GMT)
From: Wildflower
Email: None
To: JoAnn
Subject: Latvian Night
Message:

I loved connecting with you again. Keep on posting, and good luck finding an algebra class.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 01:22:52 (GMT)
From: Joy
Email: None
To: JoAnn
Subject: Latvian Night
Message:

Hi JoAnn. Glad you guys all had such a fun time last night. Long live Latvian nights!

I was thinking about what you said:

I left last night wishing this was a 3 day 'event.'

That made me laugh, but then I started thinking about it, and for me, and probably lots of others, part of what we're doing here on EPO is about community, and re-establishing a little of what we left behind when we left the Big M. We really lost a lot, on a lot of levels, especially those of us who were in the ashrams or doing full time service. I think it can be so hard for people to make the break when ALL or most of the people you know and are friends with are premies--how do you have any support to break out? And what do you fill that loss with, when other friendships don't quite measure up to the depth of the premie ones?

Sometimes I think that's why the Forum is so addictive, here in the isolating high-tech 21st century, we've created in a new way a bit of what was once so prominent in our lives, that supportive, warm and fun community. For me this was a much more real and fulfilling experience than any supposed relationship I had with the guru, even though we weren't focusing on that as our primary goal and thought he was the focus. I'm grateful (yes, grateful!) that it happened in spite of him, for those are the long-lasting and important memories I will take away from the whole experience, not the devotional nonsense. The friendships and people I've known and still know because of my involvement with M will stay with me throughout my life.

So party on Latvians, and who knows, it may just become a three-day event in future!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 02:03:31 (GMT)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: Joy
Subject: Latvian Night
Message:

Hey Joy and JoAnn!

Didn't want to mention your name below, JoAnn, because I thought you were very anon - and I missed a few other wonderful people as well - sorry!

It was great meeting you. Maybe you and Joy and I can do a 3-way sometime. E-MAIL! Not marriage! I'm still amazed at how at first I couldn't figure out who you and a few others were, and then as time went on, it all started coming back. Same with Monmot and Mark. And I just got an e-mail from someone who wasn't there but has met me via this site, and I couldn't think who on earth he was. Then, a few hours later, he popped back in. I'm having recovered cult memories and they're all good!

JoAnn, e-mail me (darlingwave@aol.com) any time you want to chat.

love Katie Darling

love Katie Darling

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 02:43:42 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: MarianneDB@aol.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Latvian Night
Message:

I agree with everything everyone has said about last night. It was a great evening. We have shared so much with each other here on the forum about the events in our lives that brought us to the cult, the good, bad and ugly of our time in it, the experiences and information that allowed us to free ourselves, and the lives we have struggled and succeeded in building in the aftermath. We've supported and encouraged each other publicly, in emails, and on the phone. Meeting each other in person has always been a joyful revelation to me. Trusting each other enough to make the leap into sharing time together, and finding out that your trust is rewarded, is a way of healing the ways in which the cult abused our trust.

I notice at each of these ex-premie evenings that we are all so different from each other. No need to behave in a certain way in order to claw our way up the premie-devotion ladder in order to get the opportunity to be abused by the Lord in person. No need to be anyone but who we are today, in our imperfect lives. What a weight off all of our shoulders!

No more drama around any future get togethers! It's simple and fun, and no one is required to attend.

Thanks to everyone who helped out, and brought food or drinks, etc. Rafael enjoyed himself thoroughly but he's getting to be an old hand at this Latvian Night stuff. It was an honor to me to share my home with each and every one of you. And no EV monitors, my house is NOT the international headquarters of EPO! Every once in a blue moon, someone takes a swipe at me on the forum about being a lawyer. Having all of you in my house allowed you to see how much my work and my clients mean to me. It was one way I could thank all of you for having extended your hands and hearts in friendship to me.

Lastly, I wish all of the premies who post here and call us hate-filled could have seen us last night. What a shock it would have been to them!

Much love, Marianne

P.S. So Chuck and Andy were talking about the three way marriage last night? Were they the only three way with us last night?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 05:24:00 (GMT)
From: Chuck Sprague
Email: bctanda@hotmail.com
To: Marianne
Subject: Latvian Night - no devotional ladder, indeed!
Message:

The thing I really noticed last night was something I have not felt for a long time.

When we got involved with the premie committee meetings last year, I wondered if I was going to feel that thing I felt that drew me to the premies, K and M in the first place. After many months of participation, I did not feel it. Not that the premies were monsterous, but everything was so controlled and stifled. If you suggested live music at an event, a church lady would give you a list of approved music recordings. If you persisted, you would calmly be given a list of all the reasons why that could not happen. This would be done ever so reasonably and politely. End of discussion.

Premies like Michelle seem to believe that Elan Vital is the problem behind all this. But I saw that these church ladies were attending, and even paying for, all sorts of trainings they were going to where they were taught all this stuff.

I saw the Atlanta seminar training video that Maharaji did himself, where he told people that the most dangerous time for anyone to talk about knowledge, was when they were feeling full of inspiration. That was when the drip became a damnburst for me. It was CULT in capital letters, and was also cold, sterile and dead.

Maharaji is training these people, and training other people to train people. He runs the show, dissent is not tolerated. The rot starts at the top.

That feeling I could not find last year, I found again last night. It was a feeling of love, in a community sense. I came to K and M through the hippy community, and they were friends to each other, not perfect, but there was not just love for the guru, but love for each other too. There were huge gatherings that would come to satsang. Many of these premies would say ''I'm only here for the good vibes, not the 'religion''. When live satsang stopped, and was replaced with videos, many people fell away very quickly. That is when many of us lost touch with each other.

It's made me think that satsang is not politically correct edited and controled videos, but perhaps is the fellowship of people striving to know the truth, ANY KIND of truth, not some dogma. People just striving to know what matters to them, and understand and be clear about it. And to enjoy EACH OTHER and be kind.

I think it was that fellowship that attracted me a lot in the first place, and was what I felt last night. Only it was even better than the old days, because there was no Belief System in the way. As you said Marianne, no devotional ladder in the way, and ''No need to be anyone but who we are today, in our imperfect lives. What a weight off all of our shoulders!''

Last year, I had asked myself, ''What happened to that love I used to feel?'' Now I know; WE were it. It came from us sharing it. Too bad for M. that he saw no value in it. Now he has sterile training seminars, boring videos, and gives K. to a handful of people via secret DVD, not even a human being. Then 90 percent of them drop out. Events may stop all together, and he will just beam his videos into peoples houses, so they won't have to talk to eachother, they can just love him, and send checks to ''support his work'' without question. NEVER question the purity of the Master.

I think you are right, Marianne, when you said:

''Lastly, I wish all of the premies who post here and call us hate-filled could have seen us last night. What a shock it would have been to them!'' Yes indeed!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 20:38:50 (GMT)
From: Mercedes
Email: None
To: Chuck Sprague
Subject: Latvian Night - no devotional ladder, indeed!
Message:

Thank you Chuck for your clarity and wisdom. I agree it was and is in us. We are it. I hope I get to participate in another Latvian Event and meet so many of you I know by reading your thoughts.

Mercedes (realizing how cold and calculated M's effort is)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 15:52:22 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Chuck Sprague
Subject: Great post, Chuck -- really nice (nt)
Message:

ffffff

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 05:43:34 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Chuck Sprague
Subject: ***BEST OF FORUM**** Great post Chas!!! n/t
Message:

n/t

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 06:03:35 (GMT)
From: Joy
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: Yes, Brilliant, Chuck!
Message:

I am so amazed that anybody even becomes interested in Knowledge or Maharaji anymore, what with the sterility in the way it's now presented. BORING.

I remember how loving and fun and open the vibe was back in 1972 when I received K. also. I loved the way people were dressed, hip and groovy, and they just seemed to be folks like me, somehow. I'll never forget the first satsang I heard, from someone whose name I didn't know, who would probably be considered a bongo today, but who was speaking from her personal experience, and it was really powerful.

What a control freak megalomaniac he is to stifle all that and tell everybody what to say and how to say it. Who can relate to church ladies in business suits? No wonder nobody sticks around. Maharaji should drop the corporate CEO image thing and retire back in India where he can play Lord of the Universe to his heart's content, which is what he really wants to do anyhow.

Very well put, Chuck!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 07:51:45 (GMT)
From: Chuck Sprague
Email: bctanda@hotmail.com
To: Joy
Subject: I think you would have loved it, Joy...
Message:

It was kind of intense, having so many exes in one place, and seeing so many familiar faces from the past all at once. I didn't get to talk to everyone, time seemed to pass quickly.

Yes, I remember the vibe in the Haight really was loving, fun and open, even though it was 1982. A kind of flower-child time warp? We also had ''Bongo'' premies giving satsang in the Haight. The words were often nonsense, but they would speak from their experience and feel high and just glow, they didn't care about being PC. The Haight people often distrusted authority, and did their own thing. They enjoyed feeling free of the shackles of any authority, even M's.

I think there was a sense of that last night too, as we were just folks getting together socially. With NO Goober vibes or devotional ladders, it felt very free and enjoyable. The Goober was hardly even mentioned, as we had so much else to talk about. It was more enjoyable than I could have imagined, and even Andy enjoyed it. I didn't think he would, since he got Knowledge ultra-lite, and was never closer than a 100 yards to Goober. But he really enjoyed the PEOPLE last night. Nice folks, I bet you would have loved it too.

I doubt most of the new premies stick around after finding out what the techniques are. As thoroughly modern PWK's like Michelle know, the techiniques are quite incidental; it's all about GOOBER, and if you aren't all excited about that, there is little else to hold you. He could sell a lot of his videos as a cure for insomnia. They sure made me sleepy.

I even have to wonder how popular he is in India. I think those crowds would come see any bigshot guru, especially when there's free food and clean water.

Being a meglomania control freak has got him what he has today. It will be interesting to see if he can keep it. I wouldn't like to be in his shoes. I'd rather get high with a little help from my friends, and be able to sleep at night.

I liked what you said in the thread above:

''I'm grateful (yes, grateful!) that it happened in spite of him, for those are the long-lasting and important memories I will take away from the whole experience, not the devotional nonsense. The friendships and people I've known and still know because of my involvement with M will stay with me throughout my life.''

After meeting so many of the exes last night, I can really understand that. We were in some fine company. Poor Goober, does he know what he's missing?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 21:40:43 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Chuck Sprague
Subject: Latvian thoughts
Message:

Having experienced several ex-premie get-togethers on the east coast, I feel qualified to say, Maharaji can't be a part of what you experienced the other night. Because he has lost touch with his humanity if he ever had any! So he is the big loser. Imagine the dynamics he engages in with other people, he can never really be himself and people around him can never be themselves (especially when M is always putting them down/ridiculing them). He's a 'VIP' who really is VERY INEPT PERSON/HUMAN BEING.

ENJOY!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 20:47:27 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: JoAnn
Subject: Love you JoAnn
Message:

And thanks for coming out -- on the forum and to the event. Let's stay in touch and keep this dialogue going on and off the forum. Many people (especially ashram premies or 'right in there' community premies) felt that they had lost a big chunk of their lives during those years of doing nothing else but SS&M. Some of us at least felt that we should have kept a few other balls in the air, or a few other eggs in the basket, to express it in cliche form.

Then we lost another big chunk of our lives by not staying in touch with people with whom we shared so much during those years -- many years for some of us. I don't know, either we felt that everyone else was still so into it we might get grossed out or (horror of horrors) come slinking back, or we weren't sure what we felt, and were off licking our wounds and trying to cultivate a view that did not include the guru.

However we have a shared experience, and present discussion can help unravel those little awful rooms of doubt we left in our minds -- FOR EVERYTHING BUT & K!!!! They are rooms with a view, and we need to let in the fresh air and light.

Love, Francesca (and Mark)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 20:43:18 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: JoAnn
Subject: JoAnn, I was so thrilled when I saw you
Message:

I had no idea you were coming. And, as I said to you, you still look like the beautiful young lass I knew 20 years ago.

PS I missed the conversation about the three-way marriage too. I was quite shocked when Chuck and Andy told me that they had been regaling the party with it while I was busy plotting the downfall of Goober with Mark and Roger.

Yeah right, no one even mentioned the Goober all night. The people there were all much more facinating that Pimple Rawat ever could be.

Hopefully I will have some time today to write my gossip column account of the social event. I will have to skip wrting my story for the society column about the Black and White Ball which was also taking place in SF last night.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 20:46:45 (GMT)
From: Deep Tongue
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: To Pia: Last night 24 members of the secret cabal
Message:

seeking to dethrone Rev Pimple Rawat, aka Balyouguesswhat, gathered in a secret meeting place known as the Angkor Borei Restaurant on Mission Street in the Latino Barrio in San Francisco.

I am letting you have the agenda because I know that you are doing such good work. First item discussed was how we were going to invest the millions in our campaign fund since the dotcom IPOs are no longer an option. A vote was taken and it was unanimously decided to send the money to Rev Rawat because he is actually doing the job of discrediting himself better than we could.

Second item was what we were going to do about the threat that your brilliant site represents. In the end a majority of the votes (with much dissension) decided to take up a collection for you so that you can buy more pics of The Lord of The Universe because the ones that you have on your site are sooo unflattering. They need to have the coarseness of his features airbrushed out. Your pics make him look to much like a greasy, greedy, egotistical, pompous, smug businessman from India.

Anyway, I just wanted to let you know what those evil ex-premies are doing because it is obvious that you are sincere and need all the allies you can get.

just having fun - PatC

Return to Index -:- Top of Index