Jim: Why remain
Ex: To tell you the truth, I don't know
exactly why I want to keep anonymous for the moment. It's a
mixed feeling. It's true that I still get something from
whatever I have been feeling through K for 25 years. I
imagine it will take time for me to find a new balance. I'm
concerned about the kind of reaction that most of the people
I know in that small world of K will have, and that might
make me feel more lonely than I feel now. They will probably
be afraid of talking to me.
Some of these people were friends of mine before I had K,
some of them became friends after. They know more or less
what my feeling is regarding all this, and we get to talk
about it from time to time, which never happened before for
any of them. I think it will have some results, even though
it might take some time.
It took me more than a year between the moment I started to
really question all this and the moment I started feeling
what I feel. When you start thinking and talking about
things you did not dare to bring to your consciousness
before, because you felt you were crazy or the only one to
think like that with whatever guilt feelings you had towards
M, something starts to happen consciously.
There has already been one result: one of my friends to whom
I gave a copy of Bob Mishler's interview plus some
interesting pages that I found on your site, and some
conversations with him, helped him to resign: he was a key
member of EV. He does not question at all what he is feeling
inside of him and keeps meditating, but he understood that
he was involved in something that has nothing spiritual at
all, that was harmful for him and his family, and that M and
many people around him have a double language.
Jim: I don't have to tell you
how invaluable your help is. I DO want to thank you,
however, for writing with candor, style and "humor". Like
they say, living well is the best revenge. A number of other
former devotees who had high status in the organization have
just turned their back on it all and "that's that." I've
communicated with a couple who just don't want to be
bothered. THEY'VE seen enough at close quarters to know how
misguided our devotion was. THEY'RE clear on Maharaji's
duplicity. What's it to them if others flounder in his ocean
of misinformation? I think that kind of indifference is
wrong and commend you again for taking the high road.
Ex: I think I can understand the people who
don't want to talk about all this. As long as they won't
realize that it feels better to talk about it than not doing
it, they won't. They might never evolve from that point.
What could maybe help them is that they can see somewhere
that people like you and me express and dare to write and
say openly what they also know and think. Getting in touch
with people like them could also help. I think it will
happen after some time.
Jim: So what all can be done? I
wonder if you know other disillusioned initiators and if
you'd consider encouraging their participation if you
haven't already? Every voice seems to make a difference. In
the meantime, I really enjoyed your latest about the early
stages of entrapment.
Ex: It is very likely that some other
ex-instructors have turned away. I know some who did a long
time ago, they also had to go through a psychotherapy for
some years. Maybe you could ask openly for cooperation of
ex-instructors/initiators, saying that you already have
some. We will make a club .... We could also get to
elaborate something more detailed together: I'm not sure
that I'm totally neutral and exhaustive in what I say.
Working with other people who went through the same thing
could probably be more efficient. Maybe you could make some
kind of private conference on your web-site to openly
discuss some topics. It would be up to you do decide who
cooperates with whom .... maybe you have some ideas of your
own. You could also ask for cooperation of ex-instructors,
as some might visit your site.
Jim: When was the last time you
had contact with Maharaji? Yesterday? Ten years ago? What
was that like?
Ex: The last things I know for sure about M is
now some months old: he had a private conference in Amaroo
last winter with all the big shots of EV, and I heard that
he was very upset with them, like he often is privately with
organizers. I think he holds them responsible for his own
personal and financial problems, and the for fact that K is
not spread like he thinks it should be in his megalomaniac
dreams. I have never attended a meeting or a conference with
him where he shows he's happy, except when he has a dinner
or a party immediately after a conference - he is then
transformed by all the love that people express to him - and
when he is drunk.
During that one week conference in Amaroo there were two
professionals organizing some kind of a group dynamic work
done. I've already been through that kind of group dynamic,
maybe you have too. The final result was that he felt (and
they probably also did) that all of them were more or less
serious jerks, and that they should all receive
psychotherapy! I am laughing when I think about it. They may
well have decided to have psychotherapy. What will be the
result? I don't know. Raja ji went (still going, I don't
know) to a psychoanalyst for a while. He even had to go to a
second one (at the same time) to speak about what he spoke
with the first one. He's still M's ambassador. How sincere,
I don't know.
Jim: Do you think he believes
any of his own bullshit? Do you think you have any sort of
solid read of his personality? Whatever, I'm all ears.
Ex: He does practice meditation. Maybe he
didn't 20 years ago, and when he was a teenager. He is
absolutely convinced of his godly/divine nature and powers.
He certainly gave darshan
(toe-kissing) to everybody in Amaroo, which showed that his
Assistant was lying when she said in that Australian
that the personality cult had ended. But he has a big
problem, because he understands that as soon as people get
close to him for a while, they see through all the
His valet is homosexual (M sometimes made jokes about it),
and I am convinced that's why he has been with him for so
long: he is completely in love with him. Same thing with
people close to him all the time. He probably has problems
with normal/regular/standard married people. Most of the
people around him, as far as I know, are quite strange, even
though some of them have very good social positions and are
very rich. His devotees have a crazy love for him as long as
they are not too close.
He also has a problem, because there are some times where he
has to be with people that have nothing to do with what he
thinks he is: trainings for his flying license, meetings for
parents at school, etc. a few things that he can't avoid. It
is very difficult for him to behave normally, and he looks
very shy in these occasions.
He also has to face the fact that even premies don't behave
the way he would like them to behave. If they behave as if
he's God, lots of crazy things happen And if they behave
like knowledge was some kind of philosophy, then that
devotion he expects tends to disappear, and he doesn't feel
the expression of love he expects.
He gets his instructors to talk to premies and explain how
to behave the way he expects them to behave: to have
devotion, but keep it in their heart. To behave as if it was
a philosophy. Then he gives them some rare occasions for
darshan, like recently, so that premies feel that the door
is not closed: he calls this 'longing'. Or he let them know
that if they want to express their devotion, they can write
him and/or send him a gift (preferably a check).
All these consequences are very frustrating for him. I
imagine he uses meditation to go beyond that frustration:
after all this is what meditation can be used for - escaping
your problems. He also feels a lot of frustration because he
can't achieve his megalomaniac dreams (lack of money, and
help, because sane premies able to work with him are not
that common - if they exist at all!).
The cost of operating his Gulf Stream 4 is enormous. He
didn't pay in cash. He paid part of it with whatever he got
from the selling of the previous jet (Challenger), and he
has loans for whatever is left. As he doesn't get monthly
enough money from Elan Vital Foundation, they have to borrow
even more money, and it's an endless gap. It might very turn
to a disaster, because the guys in charge of finance are not
realistic at all and don't dare to say that something is
impossible. He didn't tour during the first months of 97
because of lack of money.
He also has other very costly projects that he might start,
or already started; land in US and in Europe, sending his
videos via satellite to local EVs, Knowledge Centers in many
countries. I imagine that the difficulties involved in
implementing his dreams create even more frustration for
him. As he keeps saying and giving details about what his
dream are, organizers around him try to involve groups of
premies in these crazy projects, which of course lead to
lots of problems.
I don't think he could lead groups of premies to suicide
like what happened with some fanatic groups. I would rather
think that he would retire or appear less and less if he has
to face too much difficulties. He could very well stay in
his residence in Delhi or in Amaroo, which he does from time
to time, for a longer periods, waiting for money or problems
to be solved by some devoted persons.
When there was a money shortage in the beginning of 97, he
retired for about a month to Amaroo: some lucky people got
to see him there, but that was all he did. Last year he did
the same in Delhi. Sometimes he doesn't move from Malibu.
Premies call this a 'Lila'. He preserves his image this way,
and when things go better, he shows up as if nothing had
My feeling is that he could be a potential suicide risk
himself. This is probably why he eats and drinks so much.
Reaction to stress can be of two kinds: creative activities
directed towards life but also destructive activities turned
to death. If things go really bad for him, I think he would
probably increase this negative trend. It's difficult to
Jim: I'd love to hear all and
everything you've got to tell. Big stuff, little stuff. What
was it like thinking you were a finger on the hand of God?
Do you still believe in God at all?
Ex: This is a big issue, and everybody seem to
fall in that trap, Big M being the first one! As an
instructor, initiator, whatever, I have been confronted with
those feelings right from the beginning. At first, during
the instructor's trainings you feel very grateful for all
this special care from M, and all the good and blissful
feelings you can feel ('experience') in his presence during
the one week 'training', and during conferences, etc.
You don't question that feeling too much at that time. M
also says plenty of things about it. If you listen to what
he says, you can really be persuaded that something like
'grace' really exists. This is not true. These feelings have
nothing to do with him, nor with God or any divine
When you go back to your community after your training, and
you become one of M's instructors, premies start to change
their attitude towards you. Many of them start having a
respect and a reverence they did not have before and that
they don't have in their normal relationships. And you
automatically respond to that game. In India people bow down
in front of you, and they may even kiss your feet. That
happened to me quite a few time.
These kind of exchanges makes you feel very good, of course.
This is a normal reaction for any animal, and a human being
is a very sophisticated one! If you pet your dog, your cat
or your cow, they will have a special attitude towards you
because they 'feel' something for you. The more you take
care of them, the more they usually respond to it. Many
times the pets get completly enslaved in that relationship.
Maybe that's why so many people have pets. It's a wonderful
feeling, this beautiful 'exchange'. And you and your pet may
be trapped in that relationship. The more you'll pet your
cat, the more he will be loving towards you, and that can be
an endless game. It is the same way with human beings,
except that it is much more sophisticated.
But M's teaching tells you that the affection and the
respect that people show you is grace, that it belongs to
him, and that you have to turn it back to him. So you don't
play with what does not belong to you. You are in a place
where you can be a medium for that exchange, and you're not
supposed to think more about it. You don't question it.
Because it feels good to be loved, to be respected, to be
taken care of, and to enjoy all the advantages of the
position that you have.
All human beings get to experience feelings of sympathy,
appreciation, gratefulness, and so forth; often for the
people taking care of then as children, or for people around
them as they grow older. You will sometimes have deeper
emotions, such as when you fall in love, or when something
very important happens for you, etc. This is very simple and
basic psychology, everybody usually has enough common sense
to understand these feelings.
But there are some situations where you might lose your
common sense. I guess this has happened to everyone: you
fall in love, and you love that person so much that
everything about them is wonderful. This is exactly what M
is expecting from you and it is what people will feel when
they are with you.
This feeling is what some premies will try to find and to
protect with a position in Maharaji's organization. I was
lucky enough not to be trapped too much in this, because I
already had a high position in society, and I knew what it
was like to be respected. It always made me laugh somehow
and I never took it too seriously. My parents were also in
high social positions, and I know the whole story about it,
all the games, I please you and you please me, etc. I've
never liked these games too much. It keeps you away from the
simple human relationships I appreciate the most. I had the
chance to understand that when I was young.
I understand people playing these games very well. M is one
of them, for obvious reasons. Everybody would like to be
worshipped! He found a good job, he applies a well known old
Indian recipe. According to Scott, there are about 30 gurus
playing that particular game these days and they makes a
good living. And as an instructor or a premie in a 'high'
position in Maharaji's organization, you can become part of