But any decent post takes me at least half an hour to write (and maybe years to think about!).

"Rawat's power is limited, far below the voltage level required to really make any positive mark in this world. He simply cannot be taken seriously in any arena other than the small personality cult that surrounds him. "

This comment is one of the reasons why I have started to post in this board. It is a serious demystification of the man. Renounce M & K and if something goes awry, the fear factor kicks in. It’s a bad tape loop, a loop that needs to be cut. I hope premies who read these posts understands this, and are not practicing for this reason. But I fear that fear and guilt are part of the subconscious reason that keeps people from allowing themselves to begin a questioning process.

My point I made was that I expected to be chastised by my old friend for giving up the religion, but this was hardly the case. Some things have become too glaring, even for the seriously devout to ignore. You would think if you made it thirty years, 3/5 of your life, you would make it all the way. But both of us have almost the same uncanny take. I was describing a Zen training session I attended. The sensei, was clear, powerful and humourous. I commented that he didn’t need to be worshipped and "didn’t need a Rolex." She cut me off and said "A Rolex?" (alluding to M’s large watch collection). We also both feel that the focus on "practice" or meditation is too weak. Both of us have embarked on different Mahayana Buddhist practices, both extremely rigourous in these areas (e.g. annual week long meditation sessions). But far and away we agreed on what was the thrust of my post - The philosophy of "enjoying life," spirituality as the Zen Buddhists might say "without character." Realization without action (regardless of what "Dirty Dog" might say, although he is so far off target is does not behoove a flame war response), failure to recognize that we are part of a closed system. There is no peace possible in alienation for this reason, and M’s strategy centers around making his message as inoffensive and bland as possible.

OT - Another reason I post to this board is that I think it's important to draw as many people into these discussion as possible, and I was happy that I saw a few new names in this thread. I am not here to tear down M, it's not in my power to do so. But this board, especially some of the excellent passages, clarified my thinking (that's discrimination for the premies on board) on this subject, and I would like my posts to do the same.