Jim -:- My demand to Pia for a retraction -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 18:52:35 (GMT)

__ donner -:- My demand to Pia for a retraction -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 23:22:17 (GMT)

__ __ G -:- Here is a link to it-aint-so.org -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 03:40:04 (GMT)

__ __ __ Marianne -:- Immediate links to EV sites have disappeared -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 03:50:10 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Salam -:- Immediate links to EV sites have disappeared -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 12:09:47 (GMT)

__ __ Susan -:- yes, I found that ditty from lil Pia most insultin -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 02:17:47 (GMT)

__ __ Jim -:- Hi Mike -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 02:15:02 (GMT)

__ __ __ hi jim -:- Hi Mike -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 15:32:14 (GMT)

__ Dermot -:- I PROTEST MOST STRONGLY -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 20:24:57 (GMT)

__ Francesca -:- I'm with ya on that one, Jim -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 18:51:44 (GMT)

__ Marianne -:- I totally agree with you -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 03:13:14 (GMT)

__ Deborah -:- My demand to Pia for a retraction -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 23:38:08 (GMT)

__ __ Mr. Mind -:- Interesting point, Deborah -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 08:23:00 (GMT)

__ __ __ gerry -:- Mr Mind! -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 16:05:25 (GMT)

__ AJW -:- The whole site is an emmotional outburst. -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 21:19:14 (GMT)

__ __ Roberta Slack -:- PIA SAYS -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 21:29:40 (GMT)

__ Steve Quint -:- My demand to Pia for a retraction -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 20:06:40 (GMT)

__ CD -:- demands a plenty -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 19:16:21 (GMT)

__ __ Katie H -:- CD, can you set her straight re other errors? -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 19:29:56 (GMT)

__ __ __ CD -:- straight -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 19:49:26 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Katie H -:- I did it, CD -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 10:46:26 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ G -:- response@it-aint-so.org -:- Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 13:09:51 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Francesca -:- CD -- apples and oranges here -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 00:34:07 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Oh my gawd! CD as communications expert?????????? -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 19:59:04 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- Almost spilled wine on my keyboard...! -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 20:19:46 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ CD -:- Almost spilled wine -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 20:38:51 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie H -:- Uh, Chris, what I hope you are saying... -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 01:40:41 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Katie H -:- The warning against 'personal insults' WAS funny! -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 20:09:34 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Bin Liner -:- Hi Katie H , I read them (nt) -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 22:40:01 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Bin, you're a doll (that's my highest compliment) -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 01:37:11 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- The warning against 'personal insults' WAS funny! -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 20:19:13 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- That's what I thought - oh well...(nt) -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 20:33:27 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Katie H -:- straight -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 19:57:05 (GMT)

__ __ JohnT -:- Oh, I dunno, CD -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 19:25:07 (GMT)

__ __ Jim -:- Thanks for the PR lesson, Chris -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 19:22:17 (GMT)

__ __ __ CD -:- PR style -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 19:34:55 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Really, Chris? Where? -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 19:38:24 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ CD -:- Where? -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 19:59:26 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- So if someone used their website to publish lies.. -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 21:06:53 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ CD -:- So if someone used their website to publish lies.. -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 22:26:13 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Dermot -:- ughh whatever made u swim in that cesspit :) (nt) -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 22:36:00 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ CD -:- ughh whatever made u swim in that cesspit :) (nt) -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 22:46:00 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Dermot -:- Fair enough ...I guess (nt) -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 22:49:29 (GMT)

__ Katie H -:- Donner and Dettmers have grounds too -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 18:59:11 (GMT)

__ __ Jim -:- Oh sure they do -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 19:07:07 (GMT)

__ __ __ Will -:- Makes this forum even more addictive! -:- Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 00:04:25 (GMT)

__ __ __ Katie H -:- What really gets me -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 19:09:33 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- The march of the nobodies -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 19:38:35 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Katie H -:- I think it's funny, actually -:- Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 19:42:05 (GMT)

Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 18:52:35 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: My demand to Pia for a retraction Message:

Here's what I just sent Pia regarding her 'About the Critics' section on her web site, 'Say it ain't so, Maharaji!': Dear Pia: Your following article, under the heading 'About the Critics' is a wonderful example of a classic, paranoid response of a cult member to information which threatens his or her beliefs. No wonder you aren't interested in 'debating' these various points because, as you yourself probably know, your argument's worthless. There are such things as 'rogue functionaries' in organizations like DLM or EV, I guess. Apparently, Maharaji's own brother, Satpal, was just that in the final days before the family split. However, you would be hard-pressed to find any evidence at all that anyone else, before or after, ever flouted Maharaji's command and kept their positions regardless. It's an interesting theory, I guess. Unfortunately, there's not a single fact to support it. But I have an even more pointed complaint than that. Perhaps with some residual memory of the Chinese Cultural Revolution urging you on, you have chosen your own 'Gang of Four' to villify accordingly. These four, you say, have some secret, dark agenda they're advancing. You never say just what that agenda might be, other than fulfilling their own 'dark visions'. Not much of a conspiracy theory by any standard, I'm afraid. My immediate complaint, however, is more specific. You have included me amongst your Gang of Four, all of whom you say had 'positions of major responsibility in the organization.' You then opine that we four are criticizing Maharaji so as to distance ourselves from our own bad acts undertaken in those positions. This is to advise you that I, for one, never had any such position in either DLM or EV. I received Knowledge in April, 1974 at the age of 19. Weeks before Millenium '73 I was 'asked' to move into the Vancouver ashram. I did so and continued to live in various Canadian ashrams until Hans Jayanti in Toronto, later that year. At that point I moved out of the ashram only to return sometime the next spring. I was transferred a number of times over the next six or seven years and ultimately moved out again in the spring of '81. Other than bringing home a paycheck from menial jobs 'out in the world', the only positions of interest I ever had were managing publications for western Canada and being the treasurer of the Calgary community for a year or so. The first position consisted of receiving DLM propganda and dissemintating it every week or so to the three or four other centers in western Canada then. The latter meant doing the books for a medium-size cult community. Once, in Ottawa, I was the ashram 'housefather' but lost that service after I caught the Community Co-ordinator and Public Relations Officer fooling around. Beyond that, I did occasional pick-up WPC security duty, nothing special. I did have some continuing service at one point. I was one of the Premie Assistance on-site co-ordinators at the two Kissimee festivals. I was in charge of the main booth where freaked out premies, like Tim Gallwey I recall, dropped in for coffee through the middle of the night. Once I was actually considered for accounting service at IHQ but was ultimately passed-on. The feedback I got then was that I had too big a mouth, essentially. Couldn't be trusted to be a tight-lipped company man, I guess. So, Pia, your theory, at least regarding me, is a total bust. Not to mention insulting and defamatory. I hereby demand that you change your page immediately AND publish an apology or i will indeed take legal action against you. I will start by contacting your ISP and advise them accordingly. Believe me, I know what I'm talking about. I'm a lawyer by trade and will indeed follow through if you fail to deal with this matter properly. I've already had one premie's internet service cancelled for unfounded, defamatory comments. You're next unless you do something about this without delay. Beyond that, Pia, do you notice something here? See what's happening? You've made certain allegations based on certain assumptions you have about me. I've responded directly and we can now talk about this. It's called 'communication'. No one's perfect and I'm giving you the full benefit of the doubt that, mistaken as you are, you only wrote what you did in good faith. You were wrong but you didn't know it. Right? Why won't you open your site to real dialogue then? Just because Maharaji refuses to talk with his critics doesn't mean that you shouldn't either, does it? If you want your stie to have any persuasive power at all, you're going to have to drop your guard and actually talk with us. Think about it. In the meantime, though, you're going to have to come up with another theory as to why I, at least, am so critical of Maharaji. Maybe you'd like to argue that it's exactly because I wasn't a bigshot PAM ('Person Around Maharaji') that I'm so embittered. I only suggest that as a possibility; feel free to experiment. However, I'm serious about this. Anything you publish about me that is not accurate and which I find unfairly defamatory will prompt immediate action. This is the only warning you'll receive. Conduct yourself accordingly. For reference, here's your erroneous commentary: The source of most of the attacks on Maharaji and his work comes from a small group of former students led by several who had positions of major responsibility in the organization. Michael Dettmers, Michael Donner, Jim Heller, and Jean-Michel Kahn. All of these now claim that they were unwittingly working for a cult while in fact they were instrumental in forming and implementing the very organizational policies and practices they are now criticizing. We view their desire to spread rumors and false allegations against Maharaji and Elan Vital at best as a blatant avoidance of personal responsibility for their former actions and choices. At worst, it is the cruel revenge of frustrated ex-lovers. If there was a cult in those days, it existed in the minds of people like this fueled by an ambition to make Maharaji and his work conform to their own private visions.

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 23:22:17 (GMT) From: donner Email: None To: Jim Subject: My demand to Pia for a retraction Message:

hi ya'll just got back from wonderful trip to russia, cruised the volga river and waterways from st. petersburg to moscow...more later on that perhaps...what is all this shit anyways...hasn't this pia read my stuff, taking responsibility and spouting re: that very same topic...what did i miss and who is this pia and her/his site?/

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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 03:40:04 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: fearless leader Subject: Here is a link to it-aint-so.org Message:

Oh member of the evil gang of four, here is a link: . it-aint-so.org .

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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 03:50:10 (GMT) From: Marianne Email: None To: G Subject: Immediate links to EV sites have disappeared Message:

When this site first appeared, a box appeared with a way to immediately access EV and Captain Rawat's sites. It no longer appears. I wonder why? Marianne

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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 12:09:47 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Immediate links to EV sites have disappeared Message:

happened few days ago. I guess EV has pushed for this not to happen. The fact that this pop-up window appears when the site opens gives the impression that the pop-up is an add. Meaning:EV could be liable for legel action for supporting Pia's site. Seeing that our leader Jim is pissed off, not mentioning J-M and Donner and probably Dettmer, I think someone pulled the plug. Pia will most likely end up on her own, with the site dissappearing into absecurity like enjoying life. If I was Jim and the rest, I will not hesistate to sue this chick and ask for official explaination from EV. and may Alah be my witness.

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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 02:17:47 (GMT) From: Susan Email: None To: donner Subject: yes, I found that ditty from lil Pia most insultin Message:

If I were you and Dettmers, I would be so angry at that. The cult is blaming YOU??? for not taking responsibility? I have read very earnest honest things from both of you regretting your actions while in the cult, and they were not blaming in the least. Rawat, on the other hand has never taken one iota of responsibility, for anything. This makes me sick. He is the only one who has or had any real power in the cult. He can change any thing on a whim. He can fire anyone. The cult members have this bizarre thing going on in which he is somehow the poor victim of PAMs...what???? To this day he seems to hide behind the people around him who are there to absorb blame and responsibilty for all that goes wrong. GRRRR...... How is it that not a leaf moves without his grave ( yep then they would move) grace and at the same time he is the hapless victim of all these evil sycophants? Pia...it is so.

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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 02:15:02 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: donner Subject: Hi Mike Message:

Have a nice trip? Russia? Interesting. You like it? What's it like? Have you seen Pia's site yet? It's some crazy shit, you should check it out. You're in a Gang of Four which is kind of strange for all sorts of reasons. The main thing there, though, is the stuff she's got from Combat, the French magazine JM got to do a large expose on Maharaji. All hell broke loose after that. JM got tons of press, EV started freaking out, the French authorities jacked Maharaji up when he landed in Versailles. It's Springtime in Paris (for another few days, I guess). May a thousand flowers bloom.

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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 15:32:14 (GMT) From: hi jim Email: None To: Jim Subject: Hi Mike Message:

ya, russia is amazing..lots to tell, will pass my report to you when finished..river boat from st. petersberg to moscow...very interesting to say the least. just went to the site. in a strange way...her mention of dettmers, JM and I will probably backfire on her...folks in the cult are very sensitive to the heiarchy...up front seating and all that stuff as a symtom for example. i noticed there is nothing in her site from anyone just come on? or no one interesting in taking up her call to defend the master? later pal

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 20:24:57 (GMT) From: Dermot Email: None To: Pia Subject: I PROTEST MOST STRONGLY Message:

Pia My lawyers are at work right now working overtime on my behalf. I cannot believe that you would put out on a global web site that I am LED by the likes of Michael Dettmers, Michael Donner,Jim Heller and Jean Michel khan. Frankly, I've nevr been so INSULTED in my entire life. For you to think I would sink so low as be led by such a motely crew of misfits is LIBEL !!!!!! My lawyers will be making their first formal approch in the near future. Cheers Dermot PS Out of court settlements are always my preferred option especially if it means I make loads of lovely DOSH. What figure do you think you'd start at????

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 18:51:44 (GMT) From: Francesca Email: None To: Jim Subject: I'm with ya on that one, Jim Message:

Has anyone informed the Mikes about this site and the allegations? Perhaps they'd like to send her a message of their own. Instead of drowning in the river of Maya, these folks are drowning in a river of congnitive dissonance. Send out the men in white coats!!!! --f

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 03:13:14 (GMT) From: Marianne Email: None To: Jim Subject: I totally agree with you Message:

Jim, you were absolutely correct to write Pia and make the retraction demand, and threaten legal action if she did not correct it. And you now know, courtesy of CD, that she has acknowledged his email pointing out that she's wrong to include you as a cult mover and shaker, and is looking into it. Best to keep a daily eye on the site to see if and when she changes it. Who really is behind her site? We now know that enjoyinglife.org has a link to it. The tone of the entire site suggests that EV has sanctioned it. Even though it is false, being included in the Gang of Four (your description) is actually an honor. All those phone calls to Malibu and your articulate posts must be annoying Captain Rawat and the PAMs to the extreme, earning you this special, but undeserved, place in the Premie Hall of Infamy. This website is horribly misguided. When they make mistakes, there will be repercussions. This site comes from England, where the defamation laws are much more strict than the US. And, the loser (or looser, in premiespeak) pays the winner's court costs. Marianne

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 23:38:08 (GMT) From: Deborah Email: None To: Jim Subject: My demand to Pia for a retraction Message:

Jim, Why am I confused? Of Course you should be firing off a retraction Warning or Take Action Stance. This is some very small potatoes compared to what we are doing here. The pain, confusion, disorientation and psychological carthasis that I am currently undergoing prescribes your reaction. Why kind of a lawyer would you be if you did not use your professional sensibilities? And who the fuck is this CD? We should let his posts go UNANSWERED. There is no reason that they should contaminate these pages. It took me almost 30 minutes to read through this Propagandized Thread. Let's go back to Pia's Pornolized Propaganda Page. That was so much fun, Jim. I laughed so hard I was surprised Security didn't come up to investigate. Let's not give them so much power, it was so much fun to laugh with each other. This page is about US not them. They have their own Truth page. But then Why do they call it, 'It aint so'. Someone should call in a deprogrammed marketing consultant but I enjoy watching them self-destruct. It gives me more energy to heal! Cheers, Thanks for your recent hospitality.

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 08:23:00 (GMT) From: Mr. Mind Email: None To: Deborah Subject: Interesting point, Deborah Message:

''But then Why do they call it, 'It aint so'.'' Maybe this is a subconscious plea to You Know Who to come out personally and refute the multitude of charges against him. Like the famous quote from the little boy to Shoeless Joe Jackson, ''Say, it ain't so, Joe. Say it ain't so.'' (this is from the 1919 Chicago Blacksox scandal for you non-baseball historians).

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 16:05:25 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: Mr. Mind Subject: Mr Mind! Message:

Yes, the Blacksox baseball scandal. That's EXACTLY what I thought when I first heard the name of Pia's website. Say it aint so, Mr Rawat. Unfortunately, as was the case in 1919, it is INDEED so...

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 21:19:14 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Jim Subject: The whole site is an emmotional outburst. Message:

Hi Jim, Pia's whole site is a load of emmotional smoke, without any content, not to mention the facts she's got wrong. First, she has a dilema, like most premies. They are scared to read the Ex-premie sites and the forum, so they don't really know what's going on. One of my old premie friends stopped communicating with me after I published my journey, and then I found out she hadn't even read it. The second thing is, there is no substance whatsoever to her argument. She shouts, 'Lies. Hate.', but doesn't say what the lies and hate are. It's strange, because Pia is an intelligent, articulate woman, yet she can't see what a load of mindless, cult-bollocks she's produced. This is one of my big 'drips', when intelligent people start talking like idiots. Pia is armed with one of those charms made from feathers and beads, that medecine men give soldiers carrying spears, guaranteed to protect them against bullets. The charm is called 'Guru Maharaji's Grace'. It's a kinda magic. Take it easy, Anth, old friend of Pia.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 21:29:40 (GMT) From: Roberta Slack Email: None To: AJW Subject: PIA SAYS Message:

I have known Maharaji most of my life. I love and respect him, and I will no longer watch in silence while people publicly ridicule and threaten both him and others who support his work. Threats? Really? I say they know he is gone and cannot contemplate the idea of live without his grace as you said makes them desperate. Can you imagine a life without feet where to cry over? Sniff...Premies are willing to lie for ther master, dogs.. sleeping that is.zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz maharaji, you are a VERY bad person.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 20:06:40 (GMT) From: Steve Quint Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com To: Jim Subject: My demand to Pia for a retraction Message:

Jim: Nice to have you back. Hope you had a good rest. I feel like I need one as I've been reading every message posted here for eight months and the last few weeks have been very busy. Incredible how low these supporters of maharaji will go to defend their master. At worst, it is the cruel revenge of frustrated ex-lovers. If there was a cult in those days, it existed in the minds of people like this fueled by an ambition to make Maharaji and his work conform to their own private visions. How deluded can a person get without being hospitalized for mental illness? I think this would make a good scientific study. All The Best To You And Laurie Steve

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 19:16:21 (GMT) From: CD Email: None To: Jim Subject: demands a plenty Message:

I sent a message to Pia yesterday stating that the information about you being a former EV mucky muck was not true. I got a response indicating the info she posted would be checked. And, no, I am not afiliated with Pia's site. I read the same thing and knew it was incorrect. Now what is all your ranting about getting Pia's ISP to cut off service and such? You discredit your cause with your own quick mean spirited reactions and veiled threats such as: 'This is the only warning you'll receive'. Jim, you have made so many defamatory statements over the past years that it is truely amazing you would start throwing stones so early in the morning from your glass house. CD

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 19:29:56 (GMT) From: Katie H Email: None To: CD Subject: CD, can you set her straight re other errors? Message:

You've been hanging around here since Forum I, and you know what goes on here - the article about the 'four critics' is untrue.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 19:49:26 (GMT) From: CD Email: None To: Katie H Subject: straight Message:

>You've been hanging around here since Forum I, and you know what goes on here That is a BIG topic - g! A lot goes on! I can't imagine getting imbroiled trying to iron out the differences between these 2 sites (opposing forces). That would be something. If this site has credibility then the people who post here only need to maintain that credibility by the quality of the posts. Same thing with Pia's site. Do I think both sites will end up with misinformation mixed in with facts? YES You could certainly put together a well written statement regarding Pia's critics page expressing your viewpoint. Keep it short, stick to information that can be verified and don't add any personal insults. Communication is possible. CD

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 10:46:26 (GMT) From: Katie H Email: None To: CD Subject: I did it, CD Message:

I wrote a letter and sent it (I just 'submitted it; couldn't find an e-mail address - is there one?) I think it would meet your standards :). I hope this will help bring about some communication.

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Date: Tues, Jun 05, 2001 at 13:09:51 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: Katie H Subject: response@it-aint-so.org Message:

The email address is response@it-aint-so.org, it is contained in the HTML code for that page.

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 00:34:07 (GMT) From: Francesca Email: None To: CD Subject: CD -- apples and oranges here Message:

You said: Do I think both sites will end up with misinformation mixed in with facts? YES The key question is, where will the misinformation be presented? It is one thing to allow almost anyone to post almost anything they want on a Forum. It is another thing entirely to have the misinformation be in the key, or main portions, of a site, such as a statement of purpose or an introduction. I do not believe that EPO has any such misinformation in the main portions of its site, especially such grossly untrue information as Pia has on hers. And to your credit, that's why you told Pia she'd better get her facts straight, and I thank you for that. Best wishes, f

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 19:59:04 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: CD Subject: Oh my gawd! CD as communications expert?????????? Message:

This is the weirdest thing I've seen in a long time. Chris Dickey, the man who refuses to discuss anything in a straightforward manner (it's those damn words, don't you know), tutoring Katie in the art of effective communication. Chris, I admit that Katie's got a few things yet to learn. That's what we have Sandy on board for. But you, Chris? Please!

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 20:19:46 (GMT) From: Nigel Email: None To: Jim Subject: Almost spilled wine on my keyboard...! Message:

At this: Chris, I admit that Katie's got a few things yet to learn. That's what we have Sandy on board for. But you, Chris? Please! Good to have you back ;)

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 20:38:51 (GMT) From: CD Email: None To: Nigel Subject: Almost spilled wine Message:

Shucks, my well thought out chain of events fouled up at the last domino. If you stub your toe later today that will be OK.

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 01:40:41 (GMT) From: Katie H Email: None To: CD Subject: Uh, Chris, what I hope you are saying... Message:

...is that you didn't need warn me about not using personal insults in e-mail! Believe me, I know how to be diplomatic. Plus I have no axe to grind with premies in general - I WAS one. Take care, Katie

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 20:09:34 (GMT) From: Katie H Email: None To: Jim Subject: The warning against 'personal insults' WAS funny! Message:

As IF... Sheesh, does anyone even READ my posts?

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 22:40:01 (GMT) From: Bin Liner Email: None To: Katie H Subject: Hi Katie H , I read them (nt) Message:

l

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 01:37:11 (GMT) From: Katie Email: None To: Bin Liner Subject: Bin, you're a doll (that's my highest compliment) Message:

I was depressed about this and some other things, and your post made me feel a lot better. Thanks so much. Love, Katie

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 20:19:13 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Katie H Subject: The warning against 'personal insults' WAS funny! Message:

Sheesh, does anyone even READ my posts? Robyn?

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 20:33:27 (GMT) From: Katie Email: None To: Jim Subject: That's what I thought - oh well...(nt) Message:

nt

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 19:57:05 (GMT) From: Katie H Email: None To: CD Subject: straight Message:

Hey Chris - First of all, and one huge misconception that a lot of people have (I hope you already know this): the forum here is NOT same the site. Just about anyone can post just about anything on the forum - as you well know. Lots of stuff on the forum is speculative, or rumors, etc. - usually someone will point this out, but not always. We'd be happy to examine supposedly erroneous information on the site itself - should ANYONE care to point them out to us. I have said this a lot, and no premies have responded, although a couple of EX-premies have pointed out errors :). Yeah, I should probably write to Pia. And Chris, you don't know me very well if you think I would add personal insults! (Come on!) Pia sounds like a very angry person, not sure if she would care to communicate with me, though. Take care, Katie

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 19:25:07 (GMT) From: JohnT Email: None To: CD Subject: Oh, I dunno, CD Message:

Just 'cos she's got a nasty disease doesn't mean she should be allowed to spread it. What's 'mean-spirited' about standing up to a deluded Cult propagandist trying to spread her insanity?

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 19:22:17 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: CD Subject: Thanks for the PR lesson, Chris Message:

You're right. That was a little hasty of me. Do you think that if perhaps I apologize Pia will stop saying bad things about me? By the way, you must be making tons of money these days. How many classic axes have you bought recently? Eight? Why not set aside some of that money for some counselling? Just a thought.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 19:34:55 (GMT) From: CD Email: None To: Jim Subject: PR style Message:

>You're right. That was a little hasty of me. Do you think that if perhaps I apologize Pia will stop saying bad things about me? You certainly have the right to state your factual case in matters related to things written about you on the Internet. The style and tone of your PR approach expresses your character on the Internet. >Why not set aside some of that money for some counselling? Nah, I don't think so. But I could use some singing lessons and there is always the dentist waiting and worse. CD

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 19:38:24 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: CD Subject: Really, Chris? Where? Message:

You certainly have the right to state your factual case in matters related to things written about you on the Internet. Where can I state my case, Chris? Surely not in the feedback section on Pia's site, right? That's cult property -- closed shop.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 19:59:26 (GMT) From: CD Email: None To: Jim Subject: Where? Message:

>Where can I state my case Certainly, you can state your case right here. And you do so often with well written and clever postings. Apparently people who are interested in the ex vi Pia debate read this site. Maintain a distinguished character when dealing with the important stuff. Threats to write tattletale notes to Pia's ISP (because you are a lawyer) gives you the Internet persona of a low class snitch. CD

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 21:06:53 (GMT) From: Nigel Email: None To: CD Subject: So if someone used their website to publish lies.. Message:

..about you Chris, wouldn't you also request they remove them and apologise? And if they failed to do so, then what?

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 22:26:13 (GMT) From: CD Email: None To: Nigel Subject: So if someone used their website to publish lies.. Message:

>And if they failed to do so, then what? Sure, I would state my objections and try to communicate first. Then other measures might be required. Certainly also depends on exactly what is posted. Some things just aren't worth it. Experience with this site has taught me that. Are you thinking of putting up a web site. Be nice. Ha. Cheers, CD swam across the Ganges in 72

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 22:36:00 (GMT) From: Dermot Email: None To: CD Subject: ughh whatever made u swim in that cesspit :) (nt) Message:

zz

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 22:46:00 (GMT) From: CD Email: None To: Dermot Subject: ughh whatever made u swim in that cesspit :) (nt) Message:

I was young, from California and it was a small challenge to swim to the other shore. I'm glad I did it. Hey, if I can survive the Ganges ... CD

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 22:49:29 (GMT) From: Dermot Email: None To: CD Subject: Fair enough ...I guess (nt) Message:

zz

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 18:59:11 (GMT) From: Katie H Email: None To: Jim Subject: Donner and Dettmers have grounds too Message:

Should they choose to pursue it. By NO stretch of the imagination can either of them be said to have 'led' ANYTHING on this site. Both of them have just started posting on the forum within the last year - and their posts have been put onto the site. That's it. Guess this leaves J-M as the fall guy, since Brian and me are apparently insignificant because we were never responsible for ANYTHING in DLM/EV. Makes you see how premies still revere the DLM/EV power structure - and consider people who were involved in it to be 'more important'.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 19:07:07 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Katie H Subject: Oh sure they do Message:

I just thought it best to give Pia one discrete problem to deal with first. Mine's a very, very black and white error on her part. She's stuck and she knows it. By the way, if she only takes my name out of it but doesn't publish a retraction, I will indeed complain to her ISP.

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Date: Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 00:04:25 (GMT) From: Will Email: None To: Jim Subject: Makes this forum even more addictive! Message:

You know threads and posts like these make this forum even more addictive than it already is. Kick her ass Jim, and be sure to keep us informed. This place is better than TV or the movies. Am now lurking here more for entertainment than anything else.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 19:09:33 (GMT) From: Katie H Email: None To: Jim Subject: What really gets me Message:

Is that they had to give you a retroactive promotion because they couldn't believe that a relative nobody could rock Maharaji's world! Like I said, the hierarchy (ex-rated/PAMS/whatever) still exists.

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 19:38:35 (GMT) From: Sir Dave Email: None To: Katie H Subject: The march of the nobodies Message:

Just a few names come to mind: The anon vision guy, David Sterling, Jim Heller, Brian Something, Katie H, Anon, Joe W, Bill B, Mr Ex - all pretty much destroyed the myth that Maharaji had perpetrated for so long. Others came later but in a very real sense this has been the march of the nobodies. ('Nobodies' not meant in a derogatory sense, of course)

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Date: Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 19:42:05 (GMT) From: Katie H Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: I think it's funny, actually Message:

We make jokes about it sometimes (as in 'Who ARE these people??'). And don't forget Roger! Take care, Sir D - you've done a LOT. BTW, I remember your first posts on Usenet a long time ago! Love, Katie

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