Jim -:- May I reiterate this point? -:- Sat, Aug 11, 2001 at 16:17:41 (EDT)

__ Jim -:- Donner? Would you please ask Gary something? -:- Sat, Aug 11, 2001 at 21:47:13 (EDT)

__ __ JHB -:- Re: Donner? Would you please ask Gary something? -:- Sun, Aug 12, 2001 at 07:13:47 (EDT)

__ __ Jethro -:- Sometime last year -:- Sun, Aug 12, 2001 at 05:49:17 (EDT)

__ __ donner -:- Re: Donner? Would you please ask Gary something? -:- Sat, Aug 11, 2001 at 23:43:32 (EDT)

__ __ __ Francesca :C) -:- **BEST OF FORUM** and good thread -:- Sun, Aug 12, 2001 at 13:56:44 (EDT)

__ __ __ Jim -:- Thanks -:- Sun, Aug 12, 2001 at 00:08:45 (EDT)

__ __ __ donner -:- Re: Donner? Would you please ask Gary something? -:- Sat, Aug 11, 2001 at 23:51:01 (EDT)

__ __ __ __ Dave Punshon -:- donner, was gurucharanand.. -:- Sun, Aug 12, 2001 at 05:53:24 (EDT)

__ __ __ Mr D -:- Or do they? -:- Sat, Jul 14, 2001 at 09:24:56 (BST)

Date: Sat, Aug 11, 2001 at 16:17:41 (EDT) From: Jim Email: None To: All Subject: May I reiterate this point? Message:

I think this is important so I'll say it again. Maharaji most certainly compromised the security of premies and their children by dealing secretly with every Mahatma sex scandal as it arose. Rather than admit that these guys were just regular human beings and not to be trusted any more than anyone else, he lead us to believe that they were 'holy men' or 'saints'. Their mystique heightened like this, he could count on major support from them for his own mystique as Lord. This is obvious and borne out by the historical record. There is no denying it. So look at the kind of shit that happened? Trebinanand sexually assaulted a girl and Maharaji quietly slapped his wrist for it. Soon after, Trebinanand's sent back out on the road as Maharaji's 'saint' and, with all the undue trust and respect accruing to one of such lofty spiritual purity, he's free to roam again. No warnings, no nothing. So what does he do? Rapes a girl in Regina, Saskatchewan. She flips out, thinks that this means that Maharaji's 'married' her somehow, carves a circle in her forehead and is institutionalized. What sayest thou, premies?

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Date: Sat, Aug 11, 2001 at 21:47:13 (EDT) From: Jim Email: None To: Jim Subject: Donner? Would you please ask Gary something? Message:

In a discussion with Cosmic Traveller on LG I just realized something relevant to this issue of whether or not Maharaji compromised premies' safety by not only continuing to promulgate the mahatma myth when he knew that these guys were far from pure and were in fact capable of sexual predation but by even sending actual busted offenders back out on tour after only secretly dealing with their transgressions. I was talking about Tejeshwaranand, who, as I mentioned earlier, actually converted one of the Vancouver ashrams into his harem, seducing not one but several 'sisters' on the basis that sex with him was a step towards 'realizing Knowledge'. Then I seemed to remember that Tej was only sent to Vancouver and asked to stay there for a while after he'd done something 'wrong'. My memory's shaky on this but I seem to remember some whispered, dark secret that he'd gotten in trouble with some girl in the states, maybe knocked her up or something. Mike, could you ask Gary about this? What does he remember? And how about you yourself, Mike? I think you've spoken about this before but I can't remember just what you said. Was there not a policy to do major hush-hush damage control whenever a mahatma forgot his role as an ascetic renunciate who'd given his body, mind and soul to the living Lord? And if that's the case, surely Maharaji was behind this policy, wasn't he? In retrospect, therefore, would you not agree that Maharaji protected his image instead of his premies? It's like the tobacco companies suppressing scientific knowledge about the risks of smoking. Maharaji suppressed knowledge about the risks of trusting mahatmas. Clearly.

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Date: Sun, Aug 12, 2001 at 07:13:47 (EDT) From: JHB Email: None To: Jim Subject: Re: Donner? Would you please ask Gary something? Message:

Jim, Read Marcelo's journey - he doesn't mention the Mahatamas name but the story sounds the same. I don't know if knows anything more, but maybe he would be more forthcoming if you email him. In fact I'll email him. John.

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Date: Sun, Aug 12, 2001 at 05:49:17 (EDT) From: Jethro Email: None To: Jim Subject: Sometime last year Message:

there was a premie of bbj(satpal) posting here. I asked him what happened to Vedpraktanand, who was sent back to india circa 94/5 for sexual misconduct by m and later joined bbj's side. Anyway I asked this bbj-premie what happened to vedp and he answered that 'all is forgiven in the ashram'and that Vedp is now travelling India teaching the shastras(Hindu scritures). And that all the person had to say. The key words here are 'all is forgiven in the ashram'. Mahatmas etc can do no wrong. So if they do APPEAR to, it must something beyond our understanding(lila). Personally I believe that m and pams knew loads of stuff that he's not letting in about. With m's philosophy there is no conscience or 'values'. Talk about the blind leading the blind. jethro

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Date: Sat, Aug 11, 2001 at 23:43:32 (EDT) From: donner Email: None To: Jim Subject: Re: Donner? Would you please ask Gary something? Message:

jim, you are correct in the bottom line re whose interest m was protecting and interested in...alway, first and last himself in everthing he did/does..always. many of the mahatmas who where busted for sexual activities in the early days were during the time of the 'holy family' drama. m always perceive a risk that they would swing to mata ji or bbj or ? if he was too heavy on them...so often, they would be brought before m in denver or malibu or whereever and sat around for days or weeks and final got broungt before m and scolded, told to sit around some more and perhaps do 'meanial service' and usually sent back into the field. sometimes, in the extreme or usually if a second incident was reported they were sent to india and sampuranand was to deal with them...not sure what happened there. there was never much of a system to check up on the mahatmas and the culture was to give them the benefit of the doubt if there was one. the quality control was hopeless, training was non-existant. usually m himself would blame others as is his manner...blame mata ji for picking or sending them to the west...or the sisters in the west for being too loose and free...or anyone he could but take responsibility himself..often presenting himself as a victim in the holy family struggle and his hand were tied etc. so mch for the strong, commanding lord of lord....that was only his stage persona at best. there were many mahatmas involved in sexual misconduct...ted, parlokanand, rajaswaranand...many names the excape my senior brain...probably 10 at least...and of course a few western instructors...who he dealt with more swiftly usually...with more control...unless they were somehow his favorites of those who were 'politically' sensitive to some national situation...ie julien west due to her father abbry west...or like that. and certanly other significant misbehaviour...for example the spending on clothing by many of the better known instructors was tolerated and joked about...joan apter is a good example of one who could go through serious money while on tour...and the list goes on. no surprises here as the exploits of this travelling road show was well known...grumbled about locally, occasionally reported nationally and nothing really done..no standards set, no real training or re-training...all the instructor conferences were nothing but endless 'satsang' waiting for m to show up for an hour here and there to lecture us to be more devoted, to inspire more devotion..to demand more devotion etc. but, nothing new or revealing here really. typically, the instructors mostly modelled m...his clothing and spending, his tirads and demands like that.

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Date: Sun, Aug 12, 2001 at 13:56:44 (EDT) From: Francesca :C) Email: None To: donner Subject: **BEST OF FORUM** and good thread Message:

Thanks Mike and Jim: I've already seen several good things in this thread and will keep reading. This is the kind of stuff I come here for, not the endless bickering with trolls. Love, Francesca

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Date: Sun, Aug 12, 2001 at 00:08:45 (EDT) From: Jim Email: None To: donner Subject: Thanks Message:

Just got off my bike. 30 minutes today. Gave me a chance to read some more 'Cocksure' by Mordechai Richler. Yes, you're right, nothing new. What's important, though, is just this point that Maharaji knew these guys were fucking up sexually and never warned anyone. Can you imagine that scene in Vancouver with Tej? Have you ever asked Gary about it? If I'm right in my fleeting memory on this, Tej gets sent there after some sexual transgression. But somehow, maybe because Gary didn't really know, or maybe because he was ordered to stay mum about it or maybe just because we were so goddamned confused, Tej is allowed to set up this little 1,001 Arabian Nights scene. Ask Gary about Idene. She was one of the women. Married at the time to Mike Klapper, a doctor who, I understand, since made something of himself as a wholistic lecturer and writer, Idene was just your typical, 'householder' community premie. Until Tej got her, that is. On the pretense of seeing some great potential for immediate spiritual awakening in her, he 'took her under his wing', along with a few others, and, lo and behold, she quickly 'realized Knowledge'! The whole community sat rapt in satsang night after night as she described the miracle. Yes, she explained, she could finally see Maharaji in everything. Then, satsang over, Idene, Linda, Kathy, they'd all go back with mahatma ji to his ashram next door. Can you imagine? Me? I was so naive then I actually pranamed to mahatma ji himself a few times before heading off to work. No, really, I did. I was in my own 'Guru Maharaji's everywhere' phase, but playing it by the book. And all along, mahatma ji's pompous travelling mate, Garnet Dupuis, a real life Pepe Le Pieux if there ever was one, was sitting around waiting for his shirts to get ironed thinking that he, and not some ordinary chick from tne community, was supposed to be realizing Knowledge. Garnet was asked to give satsang every night as well, wasn't he? He was travelling with Mahatma Ji, wasn't he? Yes, but he wasn't fucking him, unfortunately. Now was he? It was during this time that we did that big program in Nelson. The ashram was that place that you and Gary took Laurie and me for dinner. Remember Gary's story about how Tej took a break from one of the three Knowledge sessions he gave that night, getting Gary to take his place showing light to people (over half saw Maharaji or other past Masters, i.e. people who never chose to be seen as leaders). Tej 'took rest' and knocked a sister up. Again, big secret. This was also the period when one very confused Dave Wener hung himself because, believe it or not, he was starting to have doubts about Maharaji's divinity. My point, anyway, is that it's impossible for anyone to say that Maharaji ever protected the premies. Impossible. Abi's case, while a particularly terrible one, is only one of many.

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Date: Sat, Aug 11, 2001 at 23:51:01 (EDT) From: donner Email: None To: donner Subject: Re: Donner? Would you please ask Gary something? Message:

and gurucharand of course..was sexually active

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Date: Sun, Aug 12, 2001 at 05:53:24 (EDT) From: Dave Punshon Email: None To: donner Subject: donner, was gurucharanand.. Message:

sexually active in the late 70s? He stayed with us at Acton quite alot around 78 and 79, and seemed to be living a celibate lifestyle....was he secretly bonking the sisters?

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Date: Sat, Jul 14, 2001 at 09:24:56 (BST) From: Mr D Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com To: Mr D Subject: Or do they? Message:

I dunno. Copyright 1997 Paradise Web Enahancements All Rights Reserved

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