Michael Dettmers -:- My response to Jim Sander -:- Sun, Dec 16, 2001 at 22:25:08 (EST)

__ Jenny Byrne -:- Re: My response to Jim Sander -:- Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 20:07:29 (EST)

__ __ PatC -:- Hi, Jenny -:- Tues, Dec 18, 2001 at 03:52:04 (EST)

__ __ Joycee -:- Re: My response to Jim Sander -:- Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 21:13:26 (EST)

__ __ Lesley -:- you are now leaving Rawat World -:- Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 20:50:49 (EST)

__ a0aji (Chris Hafey) -:- nice post, Michael. [nt] -:- Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 15:10:44 (EST)

__ Cynthia -:- Thank you Michael... -:- Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 14:33:17 (EST)

__ Guest visitor -:- The moral compass of Dettmers….. -:- Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 14:29:59 (EST)

__ __ A fly on the wall :P -:- The gnarly butt kiss of Cptn. Rawat [nt] -:- Tues, Dec 18, 2001 at 01:15:41 (EST)

__ __ Nigel -:- Send in the clowns? [nt] -:- Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 16:40:53 (EST)

__ __ __ Clowny guest visitor -:- Re: Send in the clowns? -:- Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 18:03:48 (EST)

__ __ __ __ SC -:- He's their sacred cow (male version) -:- Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 21:36:19 (EST)

__ __ __ __ Deborah -:- We know WHY Maha does not respond, -:- Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 20:45:52 (EST)

__ __ Joe -:- Attacks by the desperate -:- Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 14:41:12 (EST)

__ __ gerry -:- Re: The moral compass of Dettmers….. -:- Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 14:36:08 (EST)

__ __ __ Cynthia -:- Ditto...what Gerry Said [nt] -:- Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 14:45:26 (EST)

__ __ __ Joe -:- Me too -:- Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 14:44:24 (EST)

__ __ __ __ Arthur L. -:- Re: Me too -:- Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 20:05:24 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Yes, actually -:- Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 23:22:15 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Arthur L. -:- Re: Yes, actually -:- Tues, Dec 18, 2001 at 02:50:43 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Put up or shut up -:- Tues, Dec 18, 2001 at 12:08:29 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SC -:- OK - he said this.... -:- Wed, Dec 19, 2001 at 01:01:35 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Andrea Eriksonn -:- YES! You are right... -:- Tues, Dec 18, 2001 at 05:36:08 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Slobadman Getoffofitch -:- bbrrr.... -:- Tues, Dec 18, 2001 at 09:31:33 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Andrea Eriksonn -:- I'm sorry... -:- Thurs, Dec 20, 2001 at 14:19:23 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- Great logic, Arthur! -:- Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 20:19:48 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- Thanks Roger, your post filled a much needed gap! [nt] -:- Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 22:23:55 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- We need a posse to catch this sly one (nt) -:- Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 22:42:00 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Arthur L. -:- Re: Great logic, Arthur! -:- Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 21:10:35 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- Don't get me on topic of self-reliance -:- Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 22:37:12 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Arthur L. -:- Re: Don't get me on topic of self-reliance -:- Tues, Dec 18, 2001 at 02:55:31 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- You're right! I'm going back to Maharaji -:- Tues, Dec 18, 2001 at 13:53:24 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- How to be self-reliant 101 -:- Tues, Dec 18, 2001 at 04:02:17 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ PatD -:- What if there is no master ? -:- Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 20:18:26 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Arthur L. -:- Re: What if there is no master ? -:- Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 21:15:45 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Arthur L. -:- Re: What if there is no master ? -:- Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 21:15:38 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatD -:- Say Hoorah. [nt] -:- Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 21:41:41 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Cult thinking is no thinking at all -:- Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 20:15:39 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Arthur L -:- Re: Cult thinking is no thinking at all -:- Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 21:35:43 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Mr. Hanky -:- Classic Cult Bowel Movement -:- Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 23:43:30 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Chuck S. -:- ****BEST OF FORUM**** |D ()) :p nt -:- Tues, Dec 18, 2001 at 16:03:25 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- Thank you, Mr. Hanky - Superb! (nt) -:- Tues, Dec 18, 2001 at 13:56:07 (EST)

__ __ __ __ PatC -:- Re: Me too, Joe and Gerry -:- Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 15:12:03 (EST)

__ Joe -:- The Power of Information... -:- Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 12:01:39 (EST)

__ __ Richard -:- Re: The Power of Information... -:- Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 13:10:57 (EST)

__ PatC -:- ...and another thank you, Michael D -:- Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 03:42:53 (EST)

__ Derek -:- Re: My response to Jim Sander -:- Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 02:49:25 (EST)

__ __ Jim Sander -:- Rsponse to Derek's response to JS -:- Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 11:59:42 (EST)

__ __ __ Cynthia -:- Great Post, JimS.... [nt] -:- Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 13:29:38 (EST)

__ __ jonathan -:- Re: My response to Jim Sander -:- Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 07:43:08 (EST)

__ __ janet -:- my top question -:- Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 04:47:48 (EST)

__ __ __ Harold -:- Re: my top question -:- Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 19:57:19 (EST)

__ __ PatC -:- Is that you Mr Harper? -:- Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 04:21:11 (EST)

__ __ __ Catweasel -:- Here is a tip for free PatC -:- Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 05:28:25 (EST)

__ __ __ __ PatC -:- Thanks for doing my job, CW -:- Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 15:50:21 (EST)

__ __ __ __ Joe -:- Are you DEREK HARPER? -:- Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 13:10:11 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ CW -:- PLAIN ENGLISH - Fiftieth time- NO! -:- Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 14:12:31 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Put down the vodka for a sec -:- Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 14:27:18 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ CW -:- Try Southern Spotted Rock Quoll? -:- Tues, Dec 18, 2001 at 00:24:07 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Try not being so provincial -:- Tues, Dec 18, 2001 at 12:12:55 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Blown In and gone now -:- Re: Put down the vodka for a sec -:- Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 20:12:19 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Thanks for the intelligent post -:- Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 23:33:55 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Yes, I admit, M's VERY good looking! -:- Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 20:17:21 (EST)

__ __ __ __ SC -:- watch it Cat -:- Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 08:06:49 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ Scorpio-II -:- STOP IT NOW SC -:- Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 13:28:08 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ SC -:- Sorry..please let this be a small token of...... -:- Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 21:26:48 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Mickey the Pharisee -:- Oh boy, Gnostic bullshit from SC! -:- Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 23:15:28 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SC -:- I am? Don't tell Phil Emmanuel that! -:- Tues, Dec 18, 2001 at 09:56:09 (EST)

__ __ __ Tim G -:- Re: Thanks Pat C -:- Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 05:08:33 (EST)

__ __ __ __ PatC -:- Top o' the morning to you, Tim -:- Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 13:39:06 (EST)

__ __ __ __ Francesca -:- Thanks Tim :) [nt] -:- Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 12:00:22 (EST)

__ JS -:- Many thanks, Michael...nt -:- Sun, Dec 16, 2001 at 22:42:13 (EST)

Date: Sun, Dec 16, 2001 at 22:25:08 (EST) From: Michael Dettmers Email: dettmers@gylanix.com To: All Subject: My response to Jim Sander Message:

Last week Jim Sander asked me the following questions: 'What did you go through in deciding to post? Can you describe some of the ‘inner dialogues’ you had within yourself in coming to the conclusions you did? How did you feel after you posted? What were some of the responses form people who read the forum? Did I ever have any doubts or fears about posting?' I did not easily come to the conclusion to post. In fact, I didn’t even know that EPO existed until I got a call out of the blue from Jim Heller a little less than two years ago. He politely (yes, he does know how to be polite) introduced himself and asked if I remembered him from the early days of DLM in Canada. I told him that I remembered his name and had a vague recollection of who he was, but that was it. He went on to ask if I had heard about EPO and if I was aware that it contained a scathing expose about me and my past involvement with Maharaji. I told him that I was not aware of EPO nor the expose so he informed me how to find the site, and said he would call me in a few days for my comments. Needless to say, I was quite shocked when I read what had been said about me, and I was especially offended by the lies and mis-information. Mostly, however, I had this sickening feeling in my stomach that my past connection with Maharaji was coming back to haunt me. I had hoped that I had put it behind me and had gotten on with my life (which I had). But here was a stark reminder that, in the age of the internet, my past could not so easily be swept under the carpet. When I next spoke with Jim, I focused on the lies and misrepresentations that had been written about me. Jim listened and acknowledged my concerns but re-directed the conversation towards Maharaji and my role in his organization. He wanted to know what I thought about Maharaji and, more specifically, if I would be willing to post about what I thought, experienced and witnessed while in his service. At that moment, I had no intention of posting or saying anything, and I told him so. Jim called me back a few weeks later to see if I had changed my mind. When I told him that I hadn’t, he said that I was making a mistake because so many people had been damaged by their involvement in M’s cult and that I was in a unique position to help undo some of the damage. It was after a few more of these conversations with Jim that I finally made my first posts on EPO. Anyone who read them will remember that I focused more on clarifying some of the lies and misrepresentations that had been made about me and, only in a circumspect manner, did I explain my reasons for leaving Maharaji, making a point not to criticize him. These posts did not go over well with most Forum readers and I was roundly criticized. Some good did come out of those initial posts, however. Jim put me in touch with other ex’s including Joe Whalen who, in the course of several conversations, encouraged me to speak out. Jim also asked if I was aware of the Jagdeo situation, which I was not, and asked if I would be willing to speak with Susan. I agreed, and Susan and I engaged in several e-mails and phone calls during the ensuing weeks. I was horrified to hear about Jagdeo’s behavior. I have a close personal friend who was sexually abused as a child by her father and I know the damage it caused and the courage, with the help of an experienced therapist, it took to undo the damage and reclaim her life. It was Susan’s story, and Élan Vital’s denials, that prompted me to write to Maharaji with an enclosed letter from Susan, informing him personally of the Jagdeo situation. His subsequent inaction and indifference to this matter triggered whatever unresolved anger and resentment I had suppressed in my efforts to put Maharaji behind me and get on with my life. I was outraged. This outrage was exacerbated by Élan Vital’s responses in the FAQ section of its website. I knew when I left that Maharaji had lost his moral compass. Now, as evidenced by Élan Vital’s FAQ’s, he wasn’t even acknowledging the genuine love and devotion that made him a wealthy man. Instead he was re-writing history in a way that mocked all of the people who had sincerely dedicated their lives to him. I was now determined to speak out, and I did. Since speaking out, I have received countless e-mails from ex-premies all over the world thanking me for doing so. For the most part, I have simply reported the facts as I personally witnessed and lived them, letting the facts speak for themselves. I have no regrets for having done so and I am gratified that, by speaking out, I have helped many people exit the cult. It has been a liberating experience and I thank all of the people whose efforts make EPO and this Forum possible.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 20:07:29 (EST) From: Jenny Byrne Email: None To: Michael Dettmers Subject: Re: My response to Jim Sander Message:

Michael Thankyou for all your posts. When I first read EPO, just over a year ago, they played a big part in my decision to leave the cult of Maharaji and Knowledge. I was impressed by both the factual and respectful tone of each, including this one. As well, there are the many others here whose posts helped in equal measure. Thanks again, Jenny Byrne

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Dec 18, 2001 at 03:52:04 (EST) From: PatC Email: None To: Jenny Byrne Subject: Hi, Jenny Message:

How nice to see you here. I hope you'll find some time to post a bit more. Warmest regards to you.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 21:13:26 (EST) From: Joycee Email: None To: Jenny Byrne Subject: Re: My response to Jim Sander Message:

Hey Jenny, Don't forget your essence!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 20:50:49 (EST) From: Lesley Email: None To: Jenny Byrne Subject: you are now leaving Rawat World Message:

Please place your tray in an upright position and fasten your seatbelt..... Hi Jenny, It is a big step to formally state that one has left Maharaji, I salute your courage; fun though, innit! love Lesley

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 15:10:44 (EST) From: a0aji (Chris Hafey) Email: chris@hafey.com To: Michael Dettmers Subject: nice post, Michael. [nt] Message:

[nt]

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 14:33:17 (EST) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Michael Dettmers Subject: Thank you Michael... Message:

...and pay no attention to the troll below :):) Best wishes for the Holiday Season.. Cynthia J. Gracie

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 14:29:59 (EST) From: Guest visitor Email: None To: Michael Dettmers Subject: The moral compass of Dettmers….. Message:

…is obviously going around and around. This is a study how exes manipulated one person to contribute to the Forums. First D praises M. Due to this exes blackmail him (drek et al) and treathens to reveal D. involvement with DLM to his business associates. Then D turns around and says almost the complete opposite of what he first said, and attack someone who (yet) never did anything wrong to him and reveals personal details of the private life one friend intimately told to another. Finally he turns out to be a full time ex. Reading and posting things that seem to have one objective: i.e. contribute in a smear campaign against one person. That D. posts may hurt a lot of people and creates sincere doubts about fundamental issues is no problem for him. For the most part, I have simply reported the facts as I personally witnessed and lived them, letting the facts speak for themselves. The problem is that facts / interpretation of facts / assumptions are in the eye of each person I am glad I never got to be your friend Dettmers.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Dec 18, 2001 at 01:15:41 (EST) From: A fly on the wall :P Email: None To: Guest visitor Subject: The gnarly butt kiss of Cptn. Rawat [nt] Message:

[nt]

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 16:40:53 (EST) From: Nigel Email: None To: Guest visitor Subject: Send in the clowns? [nt] Message:

[nt]

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 18:03:48 (EST) From: Clowny guest visitor Email: None To: Nigel Subject: Re: Send in the clowns? Message:

One post is for Dettmers. 5 people respond to my post. Not to what I say, (I think D understand), but in unison they attack more or less that I posted. To me it sounds a bit like a club/protective/supportive or even desperate. And believe me, I have no desperate feelings. And I am convinced M will not respond to any of you guys. Guess why? Bye,

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 21:36:19 (EST) From: SC Email: None To: Clowny guest visitor Subject: He's their sacred cow (male version) Message:

You can't stand on his hallowed turf mate. Ever! His dignity of speech is unique in this place. and... Don't dare ever even think about questioning anything uttered by the shri holy sacred one herself, or the entire mob will set upon you and cry death to the interloper!! She and Michael are all they've got. The ice is very thin on this side of the lake - they pretend to like it like that.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 20:45:52 (EST) From: Deborah Email: None To: Clowny guest visitor Subject: We know WHY Maha does not respond, Message:

the question remains, 'Do you?'

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 14:41:12 (EST) From: Joe Email: None To: Guest visitor Subject: Attacks by the desperate Message:

Why don't you just call Dettmers an 'apostate' or something equally bogus and ignorant? Sounds like the ridiculous thing those cretins who did the CAC-attack website said. That reflected brilliantly on Maharaji, BTW. Kind of smeared him way beyond what Dettmers might have said. Maharaji can be smeared because he is very smearable. If he was open about his life and what he's done, instead of x-rating people to hide his dirty deeds from the world, Dettmer's first-hand testimony wouldn't have had the impact it did, and it wouldn't have caused so many people to reconsider whether Maharaji is worthy of being their 'master.' Funny how neither you nor Maharaji have denied one thing Michael Dettmers has ever said,. Hence, you have no alternative but do what people who are losing an argument have done through history. You attack the person who communicated the facts you don't want to hear. What's really funny is your apparent inability to see how transparent and obvious you really are to everyone.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 14:36:08 (EST) From: gerry Email: None To: Guest visitor Subject: Re: The moral compass of Dettmers….. Message:

I too was a bit sceptical of Michael when he first started posting. In fact I was quite hard on him. I have grown to be in awe of his level headedness, his maturity and his sincerity. I have become a big fan of Michael's and I would be proud to consider him as a friend. The guy has more integrity in his big toe that Rawat ever had in his entire bloated, corpulent god-bod.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 14:45:26 (EST) From: Cynthia Email: None To: gerry Subject: Ditto...what Gerry Said [nt] Message:

[nt]

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 14:44:24 (EST) From: Joe Email: None To: gerry Subject: Me too Message:

I remember being really hard on Dettmers when he first arrived on the Forum. It wasn't like he was accepted with open arms -- he was questioned, criticized and attacked for being unwilling to say very much. For people to suggest that he was seduced and encouraged by ex-premies to post his observations on the Forum, is ludicrous. But that doesn't fit the fairy tale the premies want to spin out Michael Dettmers, and so it's deleted from the story. Again, Maharaji is free do deny anything Michael has said, but that hasn't happened.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 20:05:24 (EST) From: Arthur L. Email: None To: Joe Subject: Re: Me too Message:

If you can't imagine that M is genuine, then imagine a master who is, then ask yourself, do you think s/he would waste her/his time responding to critics? Criticism of any master, genuine or not, is constant, as this forum attests. The more genuine, the more the criticism. If a master kept responding to criticism, s/he wouldn't have time to be a master anymore.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 23:22:15 (EST) From: Joe Email: None To: Arthur L. Subject: Yes, actually Message:

Any genuine person, whether a master or not, who has integrity, takes responsibility for his or her actions and addresses criticisms. And you are just wrong about the 'constant' criticisms. His followers absolutely refuse to criticize him, only his ex-followers are willing to do so. Anybody who either does not receive, or does not listen to criticism becomes a tyrannical, twisted, perverted person, just like Maharaji has become.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Dec 18, 2001 at 02:50:43 (EST) From: Arthur L. Email: None To: Joe Subject: Re: Yes, actually Message:

It could be that in a way the criticisms are addressed, have always been, but what is being said isn't heard.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Dec 18, 2001 at 12:08:29 (EST) From: Joe Email: None To: Arthur L. Subject: Put up or shut up Message:

Please quote what Maharaji has said in response to criticisms, and blaming others, or blaming premies, doesn't count. Come on, you can do it. Think real hard. I will be waiting.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Dec 19, 2001 at 01:01:35 (EST) From: SC Email: None To: Joe Subject: OK - he said this.... Message:

fleas on an Elephant pal fleas on an Elephant

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Dec 18, 2001 at 05:36:08 (EST) From: Andrea Eriksonn Email: None To: Arthur L. Subject: YES! You are right... Message:

He HAS addressed critisism directed at Him, most definitly. But these horrible ex-students don't WANT to hear. Maharaji has said, once or twice, that He's been misunderstood by His critics (no need for details!), and He has said MANY times that we should all ''Leave no room for doubt in our minds'', and ''Never doubt the purity of The Master''. SHEESH! Are these ex-students thick, or what? And at recent gatherings, He has made it very clear that He does NOT want to be bothered with ANY questions. And that isn't anything new, Maharaji has made it clear many times that really, He just wants us to SHUT UP, to just SHUT UP and LISTEN! The only time we need speak is to express our gratitude, and to ask where we should mail our checks. As you say Arthur, these ex-students just CAN'T hear, Maharaji's excellent advice just can't be heard by them, because they are too busy filtering out the good. Be very careful of these ex-students, Arthur! They may look like harmless goldfish, but they have the teeth of JAWS. They once tricked me into writting a letter to The Master, asking about the Jagdeo cover-up and the hit-and-run in India. I later came to my senses and relised it was none of my damn business! That's His personal business, how dare I send a letter questioning HIM? Thank Goodness The Master doesn't actually read the mail we send Him! I was so relieved when I read that here, but of course, these ex-students made it sound like a bad thing, they always filter out the good. Who cares what happens to these people anyway? They make you feel sorry for them, and the next thing you know, your doubtmaker is working overtime and you start to feel like a webvan of rotting vegetables in the hot sun! And that is THEIR fault, they are SHARKS. Listen to The Master! And only the TRUE one, not those fake ones, like the Dali Lama, he actually welcomes questions and tells people to actually scrutinize anyone who claims to be a Master, so obviously he is just a fake with a lot of time on his hands who is just in it for the money. And don't read any of those self-help books either, they are also written by greedy fakes, give the money to Mahraji instead! Remember: NO ONE ELSE can teach you to notice your breath, and realise you are alive. NO ONE ELSE! Jai sat shit anand, - Andrea Eriksonn, Who is not in a cult, and is jsut a nice person who never leaves room for doubt in her mind, because it's dangerous to That Feeling, That Experience, and That Understanding.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Dec 18, 2001 at 09:31:33 (EST) From: Slobadman Getoffofitch Email: None To: Andrea Eriksonn Subject: bbrrr.... Message:

wotz de wedda lick in Frisco deeze daze?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, Dec 20, 2001 at 14:19:23 (EST) From: Andrea Eriksonn Email: None To: Slobadman Getoffofitch Subject: I'm sorry... Message:

... but I don't speak French! ())

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 20:19:48 (EST) From: Roger eDrek Email: None To: Arthur L. Subject: Great logic, Arthur! Message:

'Criticism of any master, genuine or not, is constant, as this forum attests. The more genuine, the more the criticism.' There it is folks! I can continue to worship Charlie Manson. Surely, he must be the One, even greater a Master than Maharaji. 'If a master kept responding to criticism, s/he wouldn't have time to be a master anymore.' But, Charlie has all the time in the world now.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 22:23:55 (EST) From: Deputy Dog Email: None To: Roger eDrek Subject: Thanks Roger, your post filled a much needed gap! [nt] Message:

[nt]

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 22:42:00 (EST) From: Roger eDrek Email: None To: Deputy Dog Subject: We need a posse to catch this sly one (nt) Message:

aesdf

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 21:10:35 (EST) From: Arthur L. Email: None To: Roger eDrek Subject: Re: Great logic, Arthur! Message:

But Roger, who or what do you want to worship? Why not throw away all conceptions of worship and depend on yourself? Perhaps if you did that when you got K, you might have enjoyed it and would still be enjoying it today.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 22:37:12 (EST) From: Roger eDrek Email: None To: Arthur L. Subject: Don't get me on topic of self-reliance Message:

Arthur, Again, you are really slick, pitching them fancy spitballs right into the sweet spot of the old cult programming batter's box. Keep it up and maybe you'll be able to change the tide of exiter's. Seriously, you are downright professional. Superb. Go right after those core guilt and failure responses. But, seriously, where did I (me) get those conceptions of 'worship'. Of course, it was the mahatamas and Mata Ji who brought all that simpleton Indian Bhakti stuff over. It was never Maharaji even as he sat on those thrones in his Krishna outfits. 'Depend on yourself?' Yes, Maharaji always promoted self-reliance. Who are you kidding here? Yourself? Sure, that sounds real good to premies, aspirants, and the general public, but you and I and everybody who ever was a premie knows it's so far from true that it's not even in this galaxy. Maharaji took the best years of our lives as he imprisoned us in a self-defeating non-motivated everything in this world and everything you could ever accomplish or want is Maya. Come on, Arthur and Joycee and all your other troll names. You have got to be kidding. How completely dishonest you are, Arthur.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Dec 18, 2001 at 02:55:31 (EST) From: Arthur L. Email: None To: Roger eDrek Subject: Re: Don't get me on topic of self-reliance Message:

Then forget about anyone else, now, Roger, and think for yourself. For what is there for you to rely on but your own self? And how do you get to the point of doing that?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Dec 18, 2001 at 13:53:24 (EST) From: Roger eDrek Email: None To: Arthur L. Subject: You're right! I'm going back to Maharaji Message:

Yes, I will again surrender my life, my mind, my body, and my soul to the Living Master. And through his words and deeds he will teeach me to understand This life that I have been given. Sorry, Arthur, but ever since I ran away from the Cult, only a few years ago after nearly 25 years, I've begun to feel so much more myself than the entire 25 years I was stuck in Maharaji's Wierd World of Knowledge. Arthur, I hope you are not serious here. You sound be very sincere, but for me Maharaji and his sick stupid worldview that he shoves down the throats of susceptible people is very dangerous and completely against the concept of self reliance. Sure, in a very pure practice it might very well be true, but Maharaji is not pure in the least. He is not the Lord of the Universe and is, instead, a deluded fraud.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Dec 18, 2001 at 04:02:17 (EST) From: PatC Email: None To: Arthur L. Subject: How to be self-reliant 101 Message:

Get rid of that monkey on your back called a master.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 20:18:26 (EST) From: PatD Email: None To: Arthur L. Subject: What if there is no master ? Message:

Just a bunch of grade one bullshit artists entirely devoid of scruple, who exploit the finer feelings of impressionable youth to line their own pockets. You're right ,expecting anyone like that to respond to criticism is just a joke.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 21:15:45 (EST) From: Arthur L. Email: None To: PatD Subject: Re: What if there is no master ? Message:

Say what?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 21:15:38 (EST) From: Arthur L. Email: None To: PatD Subject: Re: What if there is no master ? Message:

Say what?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 21:41:41 (EST) From: PatD Email: None To: Arthur L. Subject: Say Hoorah. [nt] Message:

[nt]

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 20:15:39 (EST) From: Jim Email: None To: Arthur L. Subject: Cult thinking is no thinking at all Message:

If you can't imagine that M is genuine, then imagine a master who is, then ask yourself, do you think s/he would waste her/his time responding to critics? First, you might as well be asking us to imagine a genuine unicorn. If there was a real unicorn in your front yard would he smell like a horse? Would he eat grass? Stupid questions, right? You bet they are! The notion of a genuine master is far from a given in these here waters. After all, we once followed the Perfect Master himself and, as we all know, he was a complete and utter fraud. Some of us here might still believe in the fantasy of masters but many of us don't. Criticism of any master, genuine or not, is constant, as this forum attests. Yes, what's your point? The more genuine, the more the criticism. What physics book did you get that formula from? See how stupid it looks? I guess by your reasoning, a master who was a complete and utter fraud would get NO criticism. Is that what you're saying? If a master kept responding to criticism, s/he wouldn't have time to be a master anymore. And who said THAT one? Your brain is slow as molasses, friend.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 21:35:43 (EST) From: Arthur L Email: None To: Jim Subject: Re: Cult thinking is no thinking at all Message:

Sorry you're so upset, Jim. Maybe you could think through it another way. What would you do if you were on a job, in a relationship, playing in a band, or just hanging out with friends, and no matter what you did, you got criticized? Would you stay in any one of those situations, or would you get up and walk away? At first, you might respond to your critics. You might even concede that they are right, or you might just feel so attacked that even if they were right, you still might not respond. If they weren't right and nothing you said would stop them from keeping it up, wouldn't you ignore them? Of course you would. It's pretty common wisdom, too, that in any endeavor that is open to the public, the more one tries to do something beyond what has been deemed acceptable, people howl. Maharaji has been criticized ever since he started, and before that he saw Shri Maharaji get criticized like crazy. Whether he's a fake or not, it's obvious that anyone in such a situation would learn to ignore the critics and continue on. Now, do you prefer feeling angry and critical most of your time, or would you rather be out doing something constructive? I know I've got lots of things lots worse than Maharaji that I could complain about: the current political situation, the bombings and killings, the destruction of our environment, this or that happening in my community, my town. And yet I know from experience that griping on about any of that hurts me more than it hurts anyone else, it doesn't accomplish a thing, and it only turns people away from me. Better to work towards positive feeling, towards healing, don't you think? I'm signing off now and won't be coming back, so I'll let you turn these thoughts in your mind on your own.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 23:43:30 (EST) From: Mr. Hanky Email: None To: Arthur L Subject: Classic Cult Bowel Movement Message:

I'm signing off now and won't be coming back, so I'll let you turn these thoughts in your mind on your own. I am utterly fascinated by the classic exit line of these turd-o-ramas who show up on the forum, smear their diarrhea on the living room walls (albeit oh so thoughtfully), and then say the above. 'Hi, listen to my satsang spoken in faux loving and dulcet tones, watch me pinch a loaf on the dining room table and, lest I forget, I won't be back. You are now free to talk amonst yourselves.' Don't sqeeze the Charmin on your way out, Arthur, Joycee et al. Btw, is Lovejoy your mentor in dump and run techniques?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Dec 18, 2001 at 16:03:25 (EST) From: Chuck S. Email: None To: Mr. Hanky Subject: ****BEST OF FORUM**** |D ()) :p nt Message:

[nt]

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Dec 18, 2001 at 13:56:07 (EST) From: Roger eDrek Email: None To: Mr. Hanky Subject: Thank you, Mr. Hanky - Superb! (nt) Message:

[nt]

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 15:12:03 (EST) From: PatC Email: None To: Joe Subject: Re: Me too, Joe and Gerry Message:

You are absolutely right about Michael D. Desperate is a good word, Joe. The other important point that you raised was the secrecy, lies and x-rating. If none of that had occurred I am sure none of us would be here today criticizing Rev Rawat. If he had been open and honest he probably would have been forgiven and forgotten - written off as one of our youthful mistakes.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 12:01:39 (EST) From: Joe Email: None To: Michael Dettmers Subject: The Power of Information... Message:

For the most part, I have simply reported the facts as I personally witnessed and lived them, letting the facts speak for themselves. Right, and that's what makes information is so powerful -- because it is what it is, and is very hard to ignore. Seeing, the number of people who were motivated to re-examine their involvement with Maharaji, wherever that led, by things you reported, as well as things John MacGregor and others reported, is testament to not only the power of information, but also that there are many, many fair minded people who are/were involved with Maharaji and do the right thing once they have the facts. Especially when the facts have been intentionally concealed from them for so long. Thanks, again Michael, and happy holidays! Joe

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 13:10:57 (EST) From: Richard Email: None To: Joe Subject: Re: The Power of Information... Message:

I agree, Joe. It is factual information from credible wintesses that indeed speaks for itself. And the facts speak loud enough to inform anyone wanting to know more about M & K. Michael, it was your sincere efforts to communicate to M on Susan's behalf that caused me to begin posting a year ago. Thanks again Michael and all the best to you. Richard

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 03:42:53 (EST) From: PatC Email: None To: Michael Dettmers Subject: ...and another thank you, Michael D Message:

Thank you for taking the time to write that. It is much appreciated. It was when you posted that I began to look at the forum again after dismissing it earlier as shrill gossip. Your writings confirmed Mishler's POV and I began to look at EPO in more depth. You said: ''I knew when I left that Maharaji had lost his moral compass. Now, as evidenced by Élan Vital’s FAQ’s, he wasn’t even acknowledging the genuine love and devotion that made him a wealthy man. Instead he was re-writing history in a way that mocked all of the people who had sincerely dedicated their lives to him. I was now determined to speak out, and I did.'' Well, you are writing real history as are many people here on the forum. It may not be the Fall of the Roman Empire but it is about a major part of our lives. Thanks again.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 02:49:25 (EST) From: Derek Email: ecovillager@hotmail.com To: Michael Dettmers Subject: Re: My response to Jim Sander Message:

We see what we want to see and believe what we want to believe, yet none of that removes what is true and what is not true. What we believe is relative. What is just is. If happiness, fulfillment and consciousness is not within us, then where is it? If tuning oneself through the simple techniques of Knowledge is not the way to go within, then what is? How much of her/his short life does an 'ex' spend tuning within, and how much time listening to and being reminded of its supreme importance by someone who offers more clarity about this than Maharaji? How much time, compared to all the time criticizing, complaining? These are questions for each of us to ask ourselves and not to try and answer to someone else. No one who is absorbed in the beauty is judging; only you can know if you are enjoying it, out of the ego, or the 'game,' as Leary and Ralph Metzer put it. We can be such excellent judges of others, can't we? Harder still not to judge, to let love in, and then to let ourselves not be judged.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 11:59:42 (EST) From: Jim Sander Email: None To: Derek Subject: Rsponse to Derek's response to JS Message:

Derek- I appreciate your thoughtful and courteous reply. Good questions posed in an appropriate way. I'll give my response appropriately and succinctly. D-If happiness, fulfillment and consciousness is not within us, then where is it? JS-Much of the greatest happiness and fulfillment comes from things outside myself. Things like raising a child, falling in love,helping others have a better life, contributing something to a cause larger than oneself, honoring your parents,engaging with society in positive ways,developing your talents to help others....I think the list is endless...and for me, although I DO like to go inside, and still do, I spend far more time doing the above mentioned things, rather than shutting everything out to 'go within'....I would not trade any of those things for more time to 'go within'....this, however, was specifically forbidden to premies by maharaji for well over a decade, while he secretly did everything he forbid, and anything but 'going within'...(I always wondered-if the experience of 'going within' was so great, why did he need to do so much other stuff, and why has he never talked about how much time he personally spent sitting in the simple practice he recommends everyone else do.) D-If tuning oneself through the simple techniques of knowledge is not the way to go within, then what is? JS-There are countless ways to 'go within', far too many to start listing here....but for starters, do you know any spiritual or religious path that DOESN'T say that the divine is within you, and offer some way to access it?...every church I have been to reminds us, just like M does, that your breath is important, the need for peace etc.....they ALL do.... For myself, I have FAR greater experiences through yoga, other meditations and involvement with a local church than I had for the last 20 years with m... D-How much of her/his short life does an ex spend tuning within, and how much time listening to and being reminded of its supreme importance by someone who offers more clarity about this than Maharaji? JS-Yes, Derek, I know, I used to feel the same way. However, since leaving the fold, I have found numerous teachers whose writings and message are FAR more inspiring than m's in persuading me to go within to get spiritual benefit....they are far more articulate and make far more sense as well... When I used to preview m's tapes for the programs in my community, I began to realize just how vapid they really were.... About 2/3-3/4 of his talk was about things that had nothing to do with 'going within'....his plane, his kids, simplistic answers to complex problems that just didn't work, bragging about his latest acquisition or achievement (or his kids),talking about the next tour, giving 'coded' words and messages designed to increase dependence on him, and also to respond to critics on epo and other sites while trying not to look like he is doing that, etc.... About one quarter of the talks would be about 'going within'....and by the way, I have now seen or heard 3 different people asking M if he 'goes within' each day for an hour or more with the simple techniques of knowledge, and each time he refuses to answer the question....why is that?....if he DID practice what he preaches (and yells at premies for not doing enough of), wouldn't he use that opportunity to proudly proclaim HIS practice, as a way of inspiring others to do the same?.....why not ask him next time you see him(what are the chances of that, really?) how much practice he has done in the last 30 years...while you are at it, ask him how many times he has humbly and simply listened to ANYONE in this world share (old terminology:listen to satsang) and how much participation (service) he has done for anyone outside his own material or spiritual interest? D-How much time, compared to all the time criticizing, complaining? JS-Good point. Yes, there is some criticizing and complaining that goes on epo, sometimes to the point of turning people off and being non-productive. Much of this is started by trolls, with exes jumping in and playing into their hands to get things off topic. Some of it might be people with nothing better to do at the moment. BUT, there is so much information here, and so many brilliant insights from so many great writers, that the site has become a valuable tool in telling premies and aspirants about the whole story around m. Let's not forget that there is knowledge, which is 4 relatively simple, benign meditation techniques. BUT, far more important (at least in m's perspective, and many of the premies) is the master himself. And people have EVERY right to know about that man, especially if his behaviour and perspective are as strange as they are reported when he is offstage. The warm fuzzy stage persona is good, but it is just that. It's also important to know what the man believes, does and lives the other 95% of his time. Does he 'walk the talk', or is he simply talking? (That's why I walked.) One recent example: A premie couple I know have a son who is dating a woman that he wants to marry. His fiance thinks the world of him, and he is indeed a fine young man. However, he wants to receive knowledge, and has taken her to videos, which she detests. Basically, she wants no part of it, and questions why he would want or need to do such a thing. Her parents know about maharaji from her, have perused the sites, both pro and con, and have told her to hold back from any commitment to the man, because he and his parents are in a cult. They know that he goes to videos regularly,is influenced by m's talks, and will eventually probably jet around the country a few times a year to see him and give money to him They see how this will influence her, and have told her to beware, and to hold bck until they know more. Real life. True story. Now how fair is this to this young man or his parents or the fiance? They are all fine people, but the master is quite questionable. Shouldn't there be some sort of dialog or explanation from the man who claims to be helping so many? Jim Sander (OK Derek, maybe I wasn't succint, but it was from the heart.)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 13:29:38 (EST) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Jim Sander Subject: Great Post, JimS.... [nt] Message:

[nt]

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 07:43:08 (EST) From: jonathan Email: jmc@peterson-ae.com To: Derek Subject: Re: My response to Jim Sander Message:

The bigger question is why do you feel a need to 'go within'? Could one not 'tune oneself' in other ways? Are there other ways, other than 'knowledge' to 'go within'? In pointless conversations with my partner, I question Maharaji's relevance. He inherited the techniques of 'knowledge' from his father, he acts in ways unbefitting to a spiritual leader, and he is only one of many gurus who teach similar methods. The point is people who practice these techniques may indeed benefit from them, but why is Maharaji to be revered for them? After all, if the 'happiness, fulfillment and consciousness' is really within you, then why do you sing the praises of Maharaji? True, he may have shown you a path, but have not your best teachers shown you a similar path? Why aren't you praising your first grade English teacher, who taught you how to read and write? How about your gym teacher, who showed you could run, throw a basketball, or catch a football? I'm not going to attempt to answer why premies need a 'Master.' But I believe each premie ought to ask themselves that question. The reason is simple: in the past, leaders who claimed to know the true path to enlightenment have often hurt their followers and/or enemies, sometimes irrevocably. Why did most Germans need Hitler after WWI? Why did followers need Jim Jones or David Karesh? My happiness, fulfillment and consciousness is within me, but I need others to experience it. If I was stranded on a island (re: movie Castaway) thoughts of inner peace and tranquility would be the last thing on my mind. How about you?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 04:47:48 (EST) From: janet Email: None To: Derek Subject: my top question Message:

if Knowledge is not the way to go within, then what is? booze? cigarettes? dope? flying? sex outside your marriage? money for nothing and your chicks for free? if it is what he says it is,then why doesn't maharaji himself do it ? How much of his short life does M spend tuning within? , and how much time listening to and being reminded of its supreme importance? how can someone who doesn't do it himself have anything worthwhile to tell anyone else? ...'by someone who offers more clarity about this than Maharaji?' well, given the facts and the truth, that would be just about anyone else on the planet--! , unless you want to consider him an example of supreme hypocrisy, someone NOT to emulate. (cue up Dire Straits, 'I want my MTV...') oh- and derek? i definitely do NOT see what i want to see.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 19:57:19 (EST) From: Harold Email: None To: janet Subject: Re: my top question Message:

Dear Janet, You know what someone else besides yourself experiences? Does it matter to you what they experience inside, or does it matter to you what you experience? Do you want to be in joy or do you want to be judging?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 04:21:11 (EST) From: PatC Email: None To: Derek Subject: Is that you Mr Harper? Message:

I was tempted to pick your post to pieces because we've snarled at each other for almost a year now but I won't. You've accused me of being nice one minute and nasty the next but haven't we both done that? All that shows me is that we are both flexible and willing to change. Fresh start? It's always better to learn to trust someone that you distrust than to immediately suspend all suspicion. So, I'll give you a break and just pick one of your sentences to pieces. You said: ''How much of her/his short life does an 'ex' spend tuning within, and how much time listening to and being reminded of its supreme importance by someone who offers more clarity about this than Maharaji?'' Sometimes I have thought you were being deliberately obtuse but I will give you the benefit of the doubt and opine instead that you are somewhat inarticulate. I don't see that so much as a flaw as a handicap. This sentence of yours is a bit preachy and silly in that it poses a question that is impossible to answer but is designed to instill puzzlement and doubt in its reader. How much time do YOU spend ''tuning within?'' That's more to the point. I know that I spend as much time doing that as I possibly can. Why wouldn't I? I would be silly not to. Of course I am assuming that you mean by that phrase ''to relax and enjoy the exquisiteness of being alive'' or something similar - ''being filled with awe at this sweet mystery of life.'' I agree with your implication that we don't spend enough time doing that but, hey, some of us have to work for a living. I'd love to stop and smell the roses all day long. Wouldn't you? It's the second part of the sentence that is either deliberately obtuse or naively inarticulate. Which is it? No one needs anyone to be reminded of the beauty of life unless they have alzheimers or attention deficit disorder. But I do understand that premies like to watch videos of Rev Rawat. He does seem to make them feel nice. So, instead of cloaking your meaning with pompous and preachy sounding words why not just come right out and say you are hooked on Rawat videos? There's nothing wrong with that. For god's sake some idiots are hooked on Madonna videos and no one judges them. Keep it simple and tell it like it really is instead of trying to make guru-devotion more palatable to westerners. It will always only appeal to a small minority. I won't criticize you if you just stick to the facts like Carlos. He loves Rawat and that's it for him and that's fine by me. It's when you get all heavy and weird about it that I begin to smell a rat. Why is it so complicated for you?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 05:28:25 (EST) From: Catweasel Email: None To: PatC Subject: Here is a tip for free PatC Message:

You may well have snared a live one there. It aint me.When are you ever going to learn that just because you THINK something it is not automatically legitimised. Derek? You should work that one Patsy. Check the IP and timezone . Get to work you little drone!!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 15:50:21 (EST) From: PatC Email: None To: Catweasel Subject: Thanks for doing my job, CW Message:

....as long as you don't expect me to return the favor and start doing your job keeping exes' posts for future CAC attacks. I guess I should take a leaf from you book and be more conscientious about FAing. ;)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 13:10:11 (EST) From: Joe Email: None To: Catweasel Subject: Are you DEREK HARPER? Message:

I would just like to know one way or the other. Can you just say that you ARE or ARE NOT, Derek Harper?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 14:12:31 (EST) From: CW Email: None To: Joe Subject: PLAIN ENGLISH - Fiftieth time- NO! Message:

How thick are you? NO!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 14:27:18 (EST) From: Joe Email: None To: CW Subject: Put down the vodka for a sec Message:

But thanks for the clarification. The last time I asked you this somebody responded as 'rock quail.' The next time you said "it is not me." This doubt might be due to your less-than-clear communication skills. Maybe you can be clearer orally, or via interpretive dance, and you might really believe Derek Harper is an 'it,' but there remained some doubt in my mind, and thanks again for the clarification. You might try more plain English. It might grow on you. As I said, I don't even know who Derek Harper is, and could care less.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Dec 18, 2001 at 00:24:07 (EST) From: CW Email: None To: Joe Subject: Try Southern Spotted Rock Quoll? Message:

Australia's native marsupial CAT? Duhhhhhhh!Cut the shit. You know when you are talking to me.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Dec 18, 2001 at 12:12:55 (EST) From: Joe Email: None To: CW Subject: Try not being so provincial Message:

Sorry, but not all of us are familiar with the slang and fauna of your isolated backwater. Joe, The ethnocentric American

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 20:12:19 (EST) From: Blown In and gone now Email: None To: Joe Subject: Re: Put down the vodka for a sec Message:

What a bunch of fucking idiots! It would be entertaining to read your drivel, if it wasn't so pathetic. Whoever this Maharaji dude is, he sure as hell can't be any worse than you all are, and at least he's got a nice looking mug. Get a life!!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 23:33:55 (EST) From: Joe Email: None To: Blown In and gone now Subject: Thanks for the intelligent post Message:

Can't agree M looks good, though. His eyes are literally just slits, he's short and fat, he has puffy eyes and lips, about 12 chins, a receeding hairline, and I could go on. He was once kinda cute, but those days are long past.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 20:17:21 (EST) From: Jim Email: None To: Blown In and gone now Subject: Yes, I admit, M's VERY good looking! Message:

What a bunch of fucking idiots! It would be entertaining to read your drivel, if it wasn't so pathetic. Whoever this Maharaji dude is, he sure as hell can't be any worse than you all are, and at least he's got a nice looking mug. Get a life!! --- choke!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 08:06:49 (EST) From: SC Email: None To: Catweasel Subject: watch it Cat Message:

After reading patie's post I realise you/we are now dealing with 'Statesman Conlon' if you please. The great message analist (someone who analyses I mean) who rents assunder our prim and primitive missives like the great god of consistent energetic warmth that he is. Statesman pat can toy with 'derek' like an old drinking buddy for days on end...then he starts leering over and invading the two foot barrier and the smelly lustful energy. It's both seducing and stupifying. Somehow, perhaps by grace or the inner guidance of our pure true Brahamin, one recoils instictively away. Pat loves to think he's dancing with us studs, we turn him on no end, but he actually believe it's happening! Hey Dreamonconlon... for a start.... THERE AIN'T NO DEREK ON THE END OF YOUR LINE!! it's an old boot and you know, it's beginning to look.... Like you just make people up in your imagination whether they're there or not.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 13:28:08 (EST) From: Scorpio-II Email: None To: SC Subject: STOP IT NOW SC Message:

From: Scorpio-II, Forum 7 Security TO: SC RE: Your Inappropriate Behavior on Forum 7 I informing you to quit the insults here, right now. You have no right to come in here to dish out insults to Pat Conlon or anyone else. You're skating on thin ice, SC. You are being hateful, hurtful, crass, and rude. If you need an outlet for your inexplicable bad behavior, go elsewhere. Sincerely, Scorpio-II, Forum 7 Security

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 21:26:48 (EST) From: SC Email: None To: Scorpio-II Subject: Sorry..please let this be a small token of...... Message:

My repentence... Many people have asked me who I am, and what I do. I would like to introduce myself. I am a light worker, a minister, and an Astrologer. I am a minister of the Asklepius Light Center in Byron bay Australia. Two friends, and myself, started this church in 1987 and we have been going strong ever since then. Our church is small, although our newsletter reaches 7000 or more people. We have published our newsletter since February of 1988, and I started writing my Planet Alert at that time. We have guest speakers at our church every Sunday and everyone is welcome. Our motto is FREEDOM. I have done years of research on the Bible, particularly the book of Revelations. I know many people reading this article have a religious back-ground. I have many angels around me who have helped me interpret this book. They are beautiful beings and I honor their presence. My desire is to help people understand what is going on right now. I believe that by understanding a situation it can remove the fear that goes with what is considered a negative situation. I believe in freedom! Freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and freedom to be the beautiful beings we were born to be. You shall know the truth, and the truth will set you free. I believe this truth is that we are all part of God. We all have a spark of light within us that can grow to a beautiful flame by understanding and unconditional love. I believe we are all one, and when we hurt another we are also hurting ourselves. I believe what we create will come back to us, and if we have created something negative it will come back in full force. If you don't like something - look within because the answers are always there. This is where God (or Christ) lives in each of us. We live on a beautiful planet. I've heard that Earth is one of the most beautiful planets in our universe. We are also the newest and the best - we are a great experiment. When we are through the great tribulation, we will be living in bodies of light on a different frequency Earth wher everyone lives in peace. The Earth has been a third dimension being for a long time. I understand she was created with a sixth dimension body. When our Earth was in the sixth dimension, she was truly a Garden of Eden. She fell and became a third dimension reality. Now she is on an ascension process to raise her frequency to again be the beautiful planet she was created to be. It appears very dark on Earth right now because everyone's fears have surfaced to be looked at and released. Fear is here in mass all over the world! Do you choose to live in fear? Now is the time your fears will surface. We're in what is considered the dark night of the soul. We are being given the opportunity to look at, and release, any fear that may be holding us back from manifesting our Christ consciousness - what an opportunity. A great light is coming which will dispel the darkness. This light is called the Photon Belt. Our Sun has already started it's journey into this light and is going through what is called a phase shift. All of the other planets in our solar system have gone through their change, or are going through their change. Our whole solar system is being lifted in vibration. This change started in 1987 on the planet Saturn. That plane literally burst into white light. Astronomers saw it as a white mist around that planet. Saturn no longer controls us unless we buy into old energy. Jupiter was next in line for it's change. In 1994 many comet fragments were pulled into that planet. This caused tremendous explosions on Jupiter, and changed the frequency of that planet. Mercury, Mars, and Venus were affected by the comet 76P that came through our solar system in the spring of 2000. An explosion happened in space at that time that could be viewed on the NASA photos. This picture showed the debris from that explosion going into our Sun. Then in June of this year something caused a tremendous dust storm on Mars. This storm went on for months. Earth is next in line to go through her great change. It's also decision time! Do you wish to move into the light, or stay with the dark? It's your choice. You have to be on a high enough frequency to experience this great light that is coming or you will leave your body. To reach this frequency all you have to do is face and release your fears. What an opportunity we have to clear away all of our fears now with the world situation the way it is. I think we should bless all of our world leaders for providing this great opportunity for us to look at our fears. We can still feel compassion for all the souls who chose to experience this great drama in a negative way. We can bless and honor them for what they are going through without becoming part of the drama. I don't believe that fighting solves anything. By fighting back we are setting up a vibration that will come back to us, and in the fast moving frequency we are now experiencing, this energy will come back very fast. It's harvest time, and what we have put out in the past is what we will now harvest. The whole world is also being given the opportunity to look at power and control issues. Saturn and Pluto are in exact opposition, and will remain that way until mid November. Saturn rules our controlling nature, and Pluto rules power. One of the last lessens that needs to be learned before moving into the light is to look at, and release, all power and control issues in your life. Right now we have a major battle going on in the world. We all created this great battle so we could have an opportunity to release these issues in our personal life. Once you have released your fears, and power and control issues, you will be free. Nothing will be able to hurt you, and you will be able to walk through fire without getting burned because you will have made room for love in your heart. It is also reward time for many who have held the light for so many years. Although it may not seem possible for that to happen right now with the energy that is manifesting on Earth - remember that you live in the reality that you choose to experience. If you choose the new reality of the new Earth you can be living in peace and happiness right now. Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the world. The meek are those who are gentle and kind, and express love daily. There is much power in unconditional love. Now, what are the planets doing? This full moon and the first couple of weeks in November will be very intense. Not only do we have the Saturn/Pluto opposition, Mars and Neptune will be making a conjunction. The exact conjunction of Mars and Neptune occurs on November 5, 2001. We are already feeling the effects from this conjunction with the Anthrax events that are occurring. Mars rules war, and Neptune rules drugs, chemicals, bacteria, viruses, allergy, diseases of all kinds, water, oceans, dikes or dams, ships, and deception. When Neptune is manifesting positively, it emits a very spiritual vibration. Neptune is in Aquarius which is an air sign, and this energy may manifest as air born illnesses. Mars will also be in Aquarius for a couple of months. The Sun will be on 8' Scorpio this full moon which occurs on October 31, at 9:41 PM-PST. Whenever a full moon happens on what is called a black hole, it is very powerful. A black hole is a doorway to a different dimension. The energy from this full moon will be felt over the entire Middle East area. This energy will be in effect for at least two weeks. This is a very challenging energy. Because Saturn and Pluto rule power and control issues, any misuse of power and authority at this time can have serious destructive consequences. Saturn has been making a conjunction to Uranus in the United States birth chart. This energy showed that a sudden change would occur in our country and either bring success, or reversal of fortune, according to past action. Isn't that exactly what has happened? Eclipses set up events that are triggered when a planet activates that degree. The solar eclipse on June 21, 2001 was on 1' Cancer. This particular degree affects woman, and stirs up wars. This degree also affects the Pacific Northwest, particularly our mountains. Pluto in Sagittarius will activate fiery, explosive, volcanic eruptions in various parts of the world. On October 23, the sun enters the sign of Scorpio which is ruled by Pluto. The Sun will than start it's journey over Israel, Egypt, Iran and Iraq. The planets will also activate the opposite side of the world during that time period which is the West Coast of the United States, and Mexico. When the Sun moves into Sagittarius, on November 21, it will start crossing over Afghanistan, Pakistan, and India. The exact conjunction of the Sun and Pluto will occur on December 6, 2001. With those countries already fighting, this in not a good energy. The next two months will be very challenging. The energy is building up for the winter solstice which is on December 21, at 11:22 AM- PST. The solstice represents the birth of light. This is a good time to have spiritual gatherings. You could light candles, meditate, send out good thoughts, or just have fun. Remember, this is when our solar system lines up with the galactic equator. May God bless you as we move through these challenging times. Written in love and light! By Seducer Cosmicus

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 23:15:28 (EST) From: Mickey the Pharisee Email: None To: SC Subject: Oh boy, Gnostic bullshit from SC! Message:

I know that you are the greatest writer and guitarist in all Australia and its environs, but I must correct a mistake in your snide little address to my friend Patrick: he 'rends assunder' not 'rents assunder.' 'Rents assunder' is either the past tense of rends, or it means that he hires and assunder, which I do not think is possible.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Dec 18, 2001 at 09:56:09 (EST) From: SC Email: None To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: I am? Don't tell Phil Emmanuel that! Message:

I don't know shit about you

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 05:08:33 (EST) From: Tim G Email: None To: PatC Subject: Re: Thanks Pat C Message:

Thanks Pat C So well put. This Derek guy is deeply programmed as I was once. The, probably unintended, arrogance of the premie shines through in the supposition that only they can appreciate life or 'tune within'. We were so highly brainwashed to believe that the techniques and the master were the one and only experience of God that it never occured to us that this might not only be untrue but a severely limiting view of life and love. This is a common syndrome to cults and many religions too. An old friend of mine was once asked what Knowledge was and replied 'I got it and you aint'. This attitude still persists in some quarters. Best Wishes Tim

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 13:39:06 (EST) From: PatC Email: None To: Tim G Subject: Top o' the morning to you, Tim Message:

You put it in a nutshell. I probably shouldn't have answered though as I wake up this morning to see that the cultweasels have hijacked this thread too. Oy vey and begorrah! Their arrogance knows no bounds. There but for the grace of EPO go you and I - fanatical cultists smug in their ignorance.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 12:00:22 (EST) From: Francesca Email: None To: Tim G Subject: Thanks Tim :) [nt] Message:

[nt]

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Dec 16, 2001 at 22:42:13 (EST) From: JS Email: None To: Michael Dettmers Subject: Many thanks, Michael...nt Message:

nt

Return to Index -:- Top of Index