R2 -:- Season's Greetings -:- Fri, Dec 28, 2001 at 20:39:25 (EST)

__ Dermot -:- Yes R2 you've convinced me -:- Sat, Dec 29, 2001 at 22:06:46 (EST)

__ __ PatC -:- The problem, Dermot, is that... -:- Sun, Dec 30, 2001 at 03:57:44 (EST)

__ Lou -:- ****ABSOLUTE BEST OF FORUM, R2******(nt) -:- Sat, Dec 29, 2001 at 17:29:58 (EST)

__ __ AJW -:- Is there an echo around here? -:- Sun, Dec 30, 2001 at 13:31:10 (EST)

__ __ Glou -:- **Absolutely stuck to your feet LARD!** [nt] -:- Sat, Dec 29, 2001 at 20:20:58 (EST)

__ __ Premie Ji Ananda Jagdeo Jr. the 3rd -:- Yea ! R2 ex-premie loosers make me sick too!! -:- Sat, Dec 29, 2001 at 18:26:32 (EST)

__ AJW -:- Yes R2. -:- Sat, Dec 29, 2001 at 09:57:27 (EST)

__ Lou -:- ******BEST OF FORUM******** -:- Sat, Dec 29, 2001 at 09:16:00 (EST)

__ __ AJW -:- Thanks Lou. -:- Sat, Dec 29, 2001 at 11:06:47 (EST)

__ such -:- [channeled] Real Translation: -:- Sat, Dec 29, 2001 at 05:39:38 (EST)

__ __ Ulf -:- great insigth, LOL. LOL. everyone read this , Nt -:- Sat, Dec 29, 2001 at 21:01:16 (EST)

__ __ PatC -:- ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT, Such [nt] -:- Sat, Dec 29, 2001 at 14:37:55 (EST)

__ Chuck S. -:- Your observations are lacking some depth... -:- Sat, Dec 29, 2001 at 04:26:14 (EST)

__ __ Inside Edition -:- Every premie should read this, Chuck -:- Sat, Dec 29, 2001 at 16:01:59 (EST)

__ __ AJW -:- On the nail Chuck. -:- Sat, Dec 29, 2001 at 10:46:07 (EST)

__ __ Maria -:- Re: Your observations are lacking some depth... -:- Sat, Dec 29, 2001 at 09:51:31 (EST)

__ hamzen -:- What Season Exactly? -:- Sat, Dec 29, 2001 at 00:22:11 (EST)

__ Jim Sander -:- R2:How about your name, for starters... -:- Fri, Dec 28, 2001 at 21:51:28 (EST)

__ __ janet -:- Re: R2:is probly richard the II -:- Fri, Dec 28, 2001 at 22:16:58 (EST)

__ __ __ Francesca -:- Good observation janet! [nt] -:- Sat, Dec 29, 2001 at 15:30:31 (EST)

__ __ __ Pat:C) -:- R2 Detour again - it's a troll [nt] -:- Sat, Dec 29, 2001 at 00:21:35 (EST)

__ __ __ __ such -:- R2Dtour trolling 4 O'Massa -:- Sat, Dec 29, 2001 at 05:51:51 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- R2Dtour = Turner (new incarnation) [nt] -:- Sat, Dec 29, 2001 at 14:39:13 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- What's that funny pink fat thing? -:- Sat, Dec 29, 2001 at 10:51:16 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- ''straight talking honest truthful?'' -:- Sat, Dec 29, 2001 at 03:01:57 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ You mean -:- straight talking honest truthful -:- Sun, Dec 30, 2001 at 00:13:13 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Mahatma Coat -:- Thank you, unknown Premie Ji -:- Sun, Dec 30, 2001 at 11:12:56 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Making copies of your own posts, Roupell???? -:- Sun, Dec 30, 2001 at 03:46:51 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SC -:- Of course Conlon - and yours -:- Mon, Dec 31, 2001 at 02:57:05 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Thanks for your beautiful satsang -:- Mon, Dec 31, 2001 at 03:53:46 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Hey Pat, Don't Blow Our Cover....Shush! [nt] -:- Sun, Dec 30, 2001 at 11:00:53 (EST)

__ Sir Dave -:- You sound like Charles Glasser -:- Fri, Dec 28, 2001 at 21:05:57 (EST)

Date: Fri, Dec 28, 2001 at 20:39:25 (EST)
From: R2
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Season's Greetings
Message:

Greetings all. Thought I’d drop by and do some holiday sharing with you all after having been away for some time.

You know, you can really tell a lot about a person by what they do. What they say tells you some things but actions really DO speak louder than words. So, it’s interesting watching the ex-premie “movement” evolve over the years. My thoughts below are based on observing many of you continuously come back to feed at the ex-premie forums with remarkable regularity and frequency over a number of years.

So here are some of the things I have noted about ex-premies from their actions:

1. You are not very happy. Whatever the reason and rationale, nobody is driven to grind an axe with the persistence that you do if they are happy. Nobody.

2. You have a need for community. You have found a group of people in ex-premies who share similar values, and who sometimes even support each other. Of course, to a large degree you are just as dysfunctional a group as you probably were as premies, but such is the down-side of community.

3. You are not very discerning. Generally, you follow that tried-and-true tribal tenet, “any enemy of my enemy is a friend of mine”. This is exemplified every day when anyone says something negative about Maharaji, no matter how outrageous and unfounded, it will be soundly supported by a chorus of “well said’s” and “****Best of Forum’s****”. The problem with this gem of a 'quality' of course is that the enemy of your enemy may just be the devil himself, and you wouldn’t be prepared to tell the difference.

4. You default to being a victim pretty quickly. A perennial victim is someone who has a hard time taking responsibility for the position in which they find themselves. You are outraged when confronted with the possibility that your premie beliefs were probably based on pure fantasy. But you’ve gotta ask, whose beliefs were they anyway? (Hint: If your answer is anyone other than yourself, then this trait definitely applies to you.)

5. You used to belong to a cult. I admit it. There was a group: mindset, set of norms, belief system, high, pressure to conform, etc. Things cult observers like to point out. And certainly the things you old-timers so readily point out you used to do. Yech! Makes me ill just thinking about it. Thank God that’s behind us, and continues to be cleaned up as we speak. Hey you never know, maybe you guys leaving helped somewhat in that regard.

6. You probably should never have become a premie. If there’s one thing you might fault Maharaji for, is allowing Knowledge to be given so indiscriminately. I mean, it’s not for everybody, really. Neither is crossing the South Pole on a sail board. Nor is becoming a crack commando in the Israeli military. I’d be a little pissed myself if I’d gotten into something I really wasn’t prepared for nor had the stamina to succeed at. I guess that’s why he became more hands-on with the dissemination of Knowledge.

7. You are not very tolerant. To each their own is a common saying. So I ask you, why do you think that because you so doubt Maharaji’s integrity today -- which by the way is based to a large part on the points of view of a small group of disgruntled people -- that everyone who comes out and supports Maharaji is either: stupid, dishonest, naïve, or just plain evil? And why do you revel in treating premies with contempt? Now, please resist falling back into trait #4 and saying something new-agey like, “I know it’s wrong, but as a victim it helps me when I express my anger”, or something equally as intolerant.

8. You sweat the small stuff. The nit-picky level of detail that you bemoan your years as premies is very telling in this regard. Chill! Life is too short. (Of course this could be related to #1.)

9. You are not very honest. This is the most telling trait that strikes me about ex-premies. Some of you were involved for 10, 20, 30 years and only now are saying you didn’t have such a good time, or that your experience was not very real. Sheesh, myself I am in it because it fulfills a very deep longing I have, which brings undeniable peace. If after one or two years of giving it a fair chance it hadn’t delivered on that, I would have been gone, pronto.

10. You have selective memory loss. Was there nothing of value you learned as a premie? I find that hard to believe for most of you. I remember listening to some of you at nightly satsang as you recounted your stories of personal growth. I used to admire you for taking up the challenge to walk “the razor’s edge” and not settle for a life of conformity. I revered the nobility of your striving for a higher clarity, a higher understanding, and a higher love. But now, now that you are in the autumn and late summer of your lives, when the pressure to conform is far greater, you have forgotten those noble stories, and you only see what you had to give up in order to grow. Such a shame. Guess that's why Peter Townsend wrote, 'Hope I die before I get old'.

Anyway, there's my top 10 random observations I have made of you folks over the years that I thought you’d find interesting. I know some of you are really trying to make sense out of it all, so perhaps this will help.

Happy New Year!

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Date: Sat, Dec 29, 2001 at 22:06:46 (EST)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: R2
Subject: Yes R2 you've convinced me
Message:

Cult apologists will go to any lengths to re-write our common history and air brush away the fact that Mr.Rawat was once portrayed (by himself, his mother, his brothers, his mahatmas and us suckers (you and me both) as a divine avatar empowered magically/mystically/divinely by his father.

Yeah, yeah we know he was just a kid and he grew up and 'evolved' and anyway it was only us exes who fell for the bullshit blah blah blah. People such as yourself never sang Arti and meant it, never kissed those feet thinking he was anything other than just a cool guy, a friend or whatever.You never fell for any of that bunkum .......you and your friend Maharaji know for a fact that it was just us exes who loaded all that stuff onto him not vice versa.

Your one cool guy. Wish I had your superior awareness.....maybe I'd find true happiness for once in my life, huh?

Dermot

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Date: Sun, Dec 30, 2001 at 03:57:44 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: The problem, Dermot, is that...
Message:

....we never got the secret fifth technique - you know - the tongue in cheek one.

Also, thanks for popping in and leaving one of your little gems. Hope you are well and happy.

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Date: Sat, Dec 29, 2001 at 17:29:58 (EST)
From: Lou
Email: None
To: R2
Subject: ****ABSOLUTE BEST OF FORUM, R2******(nt)
Message:

[nt]

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Date: Sun, Dec 30, 2001 at 13:31:10 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Lou
Subject: Is there an echo around here?
Message:

Must be a bozo then.

Yes I agree Lou. Pat's post is worthy of Best of Forum status. Who are you by the way? And why are you so concerned about the content of EPO?

Lou, have you ever considered that you may be in a cult, just like the Moonies or Hare Krishnas?

Anth Anth

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Date: Sat, Dec 29, 2001 at 20:20:58 (EST)
From: Glou
Email: None
To: Lou
Subject: **Absolutely stuck to your feet LARD!** [nt]
Message:

[nt]

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Date: Sat, Dec 29, 2001 at 18:26:32 (EST)
From: Premie Ji Ananda Jagdeo Jr. the 3rd
Email: None
To: Lou
Subject: Yea ! R2 ex-premie loosers make me sick too!!
Message:

snarl

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Date: Sat, Dec 29, 2001 at 09:57:27 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: R2
Subject: Yes R2.
Message:

What a short sighted analysis and generalisation. You assume that there is no life outside the cult, and therefore those who leave have no life.

Well, I'm sorry to disappoint you, but I am very happy R2- much happier than when I was pissing my life away thinking Captain Rawat was the Living Lord.

It's also wierd that you see a 'community' as being a group of cult members, and think that when we leave this group, it's necessary to join another one. The rest of the people on the planet consider their neighbors and people who live and work around them their community. But for you these people are of no importance are they?

It's also ironic that one who worships a materialistic, philandering, alcoholic as God, comes here and tells us we're 'not discerning'. Do me a favour. You're the toe kisser pal, not me.

And you're also the victim R2, not us. We've escaped from our abuser. You are still in his power.

'I should never have become a premie.' I agree with you there mate. It was all a big mistake.

You're also right when you say I'm not very tolerant. I don't tolerate bozos who expect me to hand over my dosh and worship them as God Almighty. And I'm also not very tolerant of cultheads who believe they have the answer to everything, and if only I joined their cult, I would too.

When you say we are dishonest, you should support this with evidence. I've posted hundreds of times here. Can you tell me when I've lied? When has Michael Dettmers or John McGregor lied? This is wishful thinking. The problem is, you can't accept the truth, therefore you think we must be lying. You're wrong pal.

Irony of ironies. You say we have selective memory loss. This is from a member of the cult that proclaimed the Lord had come with more power than ever before, and now denies that Rawat ever claimed he was such a thing.

Sorry mate, but you're living in a cult, and it has warped your understanding. He ain't the Lord. Knowledge isn't an experience of God within. You're clutching at straws. You should climb out of your dark little pit and breath the air.

Anth the unhappy, intolerant, sweaty, lying victim, in search of a community.

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Date: Sat, Dec 29, 2001 at 09:16:00 (EST)
From: Lou
Email: None
To: R2
Subject: ******BEST OF FORUM********
Message:

yep. that sums it up

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Date: Sat, Dec 29, 2001 at 11:06:47 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Lou
Subject: Thanks Lou.
Message:

I get a big thrill when one of my posts gets nominated.

Ha ha ha.

Anth the mistaken indemnity.

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Date: Sat, Dec 29, 2001 at 05:39:38 (EST)
From: such
Email: dean@johnmarshall_law.edu
To: R2
Subject: [channeled] Real Translation:
Message:

After 4-hours of meditative mea culpa samadhi, I have attained enlightenment and channeled the glorious shining blissful spirit of the above troll poster. Here is what he is Really saying:

Translation of R2Dtour:

'CAVEAT EMPTOR!! READ THE CULT LABEL FIRST BEFORE JOINING, YOU PATHETIC LOOSERS AND DUMMIES! SEE - YOU JOINED A CULT WITH HINDU AND GURU CONCEPTS YOU YOURSELVES CREATED AND THEN FORCED UPON GURU, er MAHARAJI -- THAT'S THE TICKET! THOSE WHO HAVE LEFT ARE LOOSERS, LIARS, AND WHINERS [sic NOT credible] -- THOSE WHO HAVE STAYED ARE THE MASTER RACE
[and credible]!! Got it? PERFECT LOGIC!

Pissings all. Thought I’d drop by and take a few smarmy sniper target practice shots at you all after having been away for some time, and just emulated my immaculately infallible perfect massa -- having downed this entire bottle of Glenfiddich after work today at my prestigious firm. care to see my glorious credentials listed again? No, oh well. whatever...

You know, you can really tell a lot about a person by what they do. What they say tells you some things but actions really DO speak louder than words. [Just look at maharaji!] or Take my boastful beautiful website, for instance. I am hot shit [even if those dumb broads don't think so; like, why else would I be posting here on a Friday night?! duh!], er back to - you loosers who never quite 'got it', and who never should have been given 'it', in the first place. So, it’s interesting watching the alleged premie slavedog Exodus “movement” [haha] evolve over the years. Mr. Mind's thoughts below are based on continuously coming back to feed as my dark alter-ego at the ex-premie forums with remarkable regularity and frequency over a number of years. [Even though I'm a fulfilled and realised enlightened premie apologist for maharaji, I just can't seem to get enough, so I come here, for some inexplicable reason...]

So here are some of the things I have noted about ex-premies from their actions:

1. You are not very happy, just like those community contactpersons who are taking prozac or the alcoholic instructors or all the elan vital organizers and active pwks who have quit in droves over the past year - all the thousands of pathetic loosers who just didn't seem to get it - all over the world. Whatever the reason and rationale, nobody is driven to grind an axe with the persistence that you do if they are happy. Nobody -- including my stupid whining clients, partners, secretaries, my nagging wife, my ungrateful brats, parents, etc., none of whom can stand my pompous asshole cult posturing and impeccable credentials. those total loosers! Boy, am I one lucky s.o.b.!

2. You have a need for community. hahaha [Who needs bleepin community when you have The Living Lord, a BMW, and a prestigious mid-town law office overlooking the plebians?!] You have found a group of people in ex-premies who share similar values of freedom and truth in advertising - [yech! makes me wanna barf], and who sometimes even support each other [yechy poo]. Of course, to a large degree you are almost as dysfunctional a group as premies, but such is the down-side of community. [you weak spineless, continuing co-dependents] But of course, you were obviously screwed-up premies, too. You're NOT credible. I AM!!! Maharaji is!! Jagdeo is!! Raja ji IS! Rennie Davis, Dettmers, Mishler, McGregor, Donner, and Blitzen WERE! [you traitors to the LIVING LORD - oops, I mean THE MASTER, THE LIVING MASTER, THE MASTER OF OUR TIME, BY HIS OWN GRACE.] On the contrary, I am so sickeningly functional, by comparison. That's why I am gloating now [gulp gulp - where's my other bottle? oh yeah, stashed in the right oak desk drawer in my walnut-paneled office with the leather chair. I RULE, you loosers! I am enlightened And successful - the epitome of the modern realised premie of the living lord! You blew it - you could have been one of the Chosen People! Not a leaf moves without the Master.]

3. You are not very discerning [you are dumber than that pathetic environmental protection agency lawyer who thought his client would prevail against my big polluting corporate golden goose - loved it!! we coached and greased the palms of that one defense expert witness, but good!!! hahaha that's the grace...]. Generally, you follow that tried-and-true tribal tenet, “any enemy of my enemy is a friend of mine”. [kinda like the USA and it allies in Afghanistan. hehehe yeah, I got that one from watching CNN, dudes. btw, God, do I love what Sharon's doing to those millions of bleepin' whiny displaced Palestinian Christian shiksas and A-rabs! You know what the Kabbala says after all: it is ok to steal from and kill the Gentiles and unbelievers! How I love the sweet smell of blessed napalm in the morning! If only I were young enough to enlist. hehehe Oh, well, maybe I'll send a tax-deductible donation and plant a tree over there -- in Gaza, hahaha] This is exemplified every day when anyone says something negative about Maharaji [you ungrateful former lapdogs], no matter how true and corroborated [yech], it will be soundly supported by a chorus of “well said’s” and “****Best of Forum’s****”. [poo poo poo] The problem with this gem of a 'quality' of course is that the enemy of your enemy may just be the devil himself, and you wouldn’t be prepared to tell the difference, just like I couldn't - and still can't - tell the difference, either, from so many years of playing devil's advocate and apologist myself [never leave room for doubt, after all] -- both personally [i.e. here and on another unmentionable site -- hehehe - you know which one -- haha] and professionally [I am sooooooo smooth -- wanna buy the 59th St. bridge? hahaha feelin groovy,,,]. And I don't know why my jealous colleagues call me the 'Snake Fake -- Ready to Bake'!

4. You default to being a victim pretty quickly [i.e. you lose - loosers]. A perennial victim is someone who has a hard time taking responsibility for the position in which they find themselves, even if they really were victimized. You are outraged when confronted with the possibility that your premie beliefs were probably based on pure fantasy - as spewed by the noble altruistic, charitable, saintly, godlike, ascetic, harmonious and loving Rawat Holy Family and passed along as doctrine by their holiness appointed instructors and their Holy Name publications, such as Who is Guru Maharaj ji? and Life With Knowledge - The Premie Guidebook, And it is Divine, Divine Times, and by Divine Light Mission, Visions International, Elan Vital, and the 10,000 sacred videos -- with more satsang of the living lord incarnate to come [how I long to suck his fat lil toes and lick his lotus feet -- rufff!! rufff!!!! rahr!!! arghh!!!! Bow!!!!! WOW!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh please pet me, massa. a bone? ruff ruff ruff ruff.....]. But you’ve gotta ask, whose beliefs were they anyway? (Hint: If your answer is anyone other than yourself, then this trait definitely applies to you.) Hey, like the stupid opposition yesterday - that girl who charged my client with rape had it coming, in my book. I mean, she voluntarily accepted the invitation of the minister to go back to his house for cookies and spiritual training. So what if he told her he was going to give her a junior knowledge session! She was probably making it up, anyway. My own clients Never NEVER lie! Just look at Maharaji. would he LIE to you? NO, he is perfect, after all, as he has told us so so many many times.]

5. You used to belong to a cult. I ADMIT IT! [but it was You -- Not poor innocent maharaji -- YOU young Westerners fed HIM with those Indian Hindu concepts of Perfect Master, the satguru, Krishna and his gopis, satsang, service, meditation, ashrams, mahatmas, holy water, arti, arti tray, toe-kissing, darshan envelopes, thrones, bowing to His picture, etc.] There was a group: mindset, set of norms, belief system, high, pressure to conform, etc. Things cult observers like to point out. And certainly the things you old-farts [ready for trash compactors and cremation ovens] so readily point out you used to do. Yech! Makes me ill just thinking about it. [ you guys make me wanna puke! Seasons Greetings, after all! Shalom, you fuckin worthless pieces of shit loosers -- ooops. sorry.] Thank God that’s behind us [by HIS Grace! incidentally, I can't wait for darshan again - just to bow down and kiss his precious and pure holy lotus feet], and continues to be cleaned up as we speak [I can hear the paper shredders in the other room right now, in fact!]. Hey you never know, maybe you guys leaving helped somewhat in that regard. [i.e. good riddance to bad rubbish -- you rotten veges - there but for the Grace of the Master go I... Now, everything's great -- ever since 144,000 of you loosers left -- right after Millenium '73!! Oh well, you missed those flying saucers. I actually levitated up to the mother ship, which had come to pay obeisance to the Lord of the Universe (according to the Holy Family)-- am I GOOD, or what!!! read my lips -- er, resume again!]

6. You probably should never have become a premie. [you were either too dumb, insincere, lazy, or just in your mind 24 hours a day.] If there’s one thing you might fault Maharaji for, is allowing Knowledge to be given so indiscriminately. I mean, it’s not for everybody, really. [especially you total loosers -- it's for the elite Alphas of the New World Order. In fact, Maharaji should have discriminated - yes, we need more discriminating minds, er segregation - you know, like the kinder and gentler version we have over on the West Bank and in Gaza. hahaha! Or like the Old antebellum South. Boy, those must have been the Good Old Days!] Neither is crossing the South Pole on a sail board, which is like my ultimate dream/fantasy. I mean, like when everyone crosses the South Pole on a sail board, there will be peace on earth. Nor is becoming a crack addict commando in the Israeli military. Blood will have blood!! Kill the infidels - Muslims, gentiles, and apostates! I’d be a little pissed myself if I’d gotten into something I really wasn’t prepared for nor had the stamina to succeed at. [aren't I GOOODDDDD GOD! I am so fucking superior - saved, holier than thou, there but for the grace - you total whining loosers]. I guess that’s why he became more hands-on with the insemination of er Knowledge with those young blonde premie women. Isn't Monica hot?!!! Boy, would I like to....

7. You are not very tolerant. [like me] To each their own is a common saying. So I ask you, why do you think that because you so doubt Maharaji’s unimpeachable integrity and perfection today -- which by the way is based to a large part on the points of view of a miniscule group of disgruntled people, such as reporters, attorneys, mental health professionals, nurses, professors, mothers, fathers, government officials, apostate ministers, homosexuals, bleeding heart liberals, whining victims, former looser ashram residents that he was saving from drugs, maharaji's ungrateful former personal manager, the organization's late Benedict Arnold president, former mahatmas and western instructors who never realised the knowledge because they got into their minds from doubting and thinking, his mother who lied and was into Hindu superstitions anyway, his jealous brothers who couldn't accept his divinity -- I mean he heard voices speaking to him, after all -- ya gotta believe!!! , and other not credible witnesses [and on stupid false government documents, photos that obviously were tampered with - but we'll sue you bastards for copyright infringement -- he never wore that crown!! - yacht and corporate registrations probably forged by ex-premies, and on the false testimony of his former personal staff, as well as hundreds of posting former devotees -- it's all Lies, Lies, Lies -- all maharaji ever kept for himself was his lil dog Checkers - do not believe your eyes - do NOT do NOT drive up Pacific Coast Highway to Trancas Canyon Road, up Anacapa View, and look at #23 - that is NOT a palace, but rather a 'dilapidated bungalow' -- you know, those dilapidated 28,000 sq ft Malibu bungalows that are not worthy of the living Lord, oops THE Master] and no credible eyewitnesses who knew him who were privileged enough to be x-rated PAMs -- that everyone who comes out and supports Maharaji is either: stupid, dishonest, naïve, or just plain evil? [well, let's eliminate evil. ok? I mean, 3 out of 4 ain't That bad, is it? And instructor Jagdeo was a lil altar boy at the lotus feet. [I can't wait to represent that case -- win or lose
---
the fees!!!!!] And why do you revel in treating premies with contempt? i.e. pretending to 'help' them exit [retch] this most blissful of Master-servant relationships. Now, please resist falling back into trait #4 and saying something new-agey like, “I know it’s wrong, but as a victim it helps me when I express my anger”, or something equally as intolerant. I mean, nobody has EVER seen maharaji angry or intolerant, have they?!!! He is the real victim! Those crying rape and abuse are the real abusers. Someone oughta look into Their backgrounds. And after all, there is NOTHING new agey about Knowledge, serving the satguru THE Living Master, pranaming at his holy lotus feet in Amaroo, chanting and dancing and worshipping his golden perfect body, I bow to you my Lord, etc. - No, that is NOT new-agey. It's been around a long, long time. As our unadulterated affidavits by the late spiritual chief justice and arbitrator Kabir clearly show: He wrote 'the true saint accepts riches and wealth from his devotees. If he is not accepting, soliciting or demanding Rolls Royces or Rolex watches or luxury jets, or extramarital nookie, then he is NOT a true saint or master!!!'

8. You sweat the small stuff [like the diversion of $100 million dollars, the ashrams, the assassination attempts and coverups the Holy Family ordered, the darshan cash envelopes, the planes, yachts, mansions, car collections, clever shell corporations, etc.] The nit-picky level of detail that you bemoan your years as premies is very telling in this regard. Chill! Life is too short. (Of course this could be related to #1, whatever that was -- gulp gulp- shit I'm down to Wild Turkey - oh, here's some Jim Beam - yes!)

9. You are not very honest. [I use that line all the time in court against the opposition's witnesses! gets the judge or jury wondering -- hahahaha!!] This is the most telling trait that strikes me about ex-premies. [You're ALL OF BUNCH OF STINKING LIARS - YOU WERE NOT THERE - YOU DID NOT EXIST - YOU DID NOT SEE OR HEAR OR WITNESS ANYTHING. IT WAS ALL A MIRAGE OF YOUR MINDS. GOT IT?!! Some of you were involved for 10, 20, 30 years and only now are saying you didn’t have such a good time, or that your experience was not very real. Sheesh, myself I am in it because it fulfills a very deep longing I have, which brings undeniable peace. If after one or two years of giving it a fair chance it hadn’t delivered on that, I would have been gone, pronto. + every good pwk knows deep inside that Maharaji is the Lord, anyway -- er The Living Master. I mean, you can NOT divorce the experience of observing your breath from the Master. You see, only HE gives the possibility of That Experience, That fulfillment, That understanding, That bliss, The grace and mercy of being able to participate and donate, and donate, and donate again, and donate more, and donate monthly, and donate automatically, and donate your estates, and keep on donating generously to pay attorneys from other prestigious law firms and - Finally - some clever public relations people now who can show the world and everyone how he has brought peace to the Middle East and Latin America and Africa and India and Pakistan, like maharaji said he would - I mean just inner peace, of course -- and the team strategists, dog trainers, security force and metal dectectors, directors of cult homeland security, gardeners, domestic servants, personal secretaries, mistress, book company, maharaji promotional media productions, maharaji's photographers, maharaji's jet crew, his personal valet/butler, HIS HIS HIS HIS HIS HIS etc. much of it donated by you ungrateful wretches, who naively think there should be some kind of accountability. Hey, get real, kiddies. This ain't Kansas. This is MAHARAJI'S WORLD!!! EVERYTHING IN IT IS HIS anyway, so give it up to him. you don't need it. he -- and we -- do!

10. You have selective memory loss. Was there nothing of value you learned as a premie? [like toe-kissing, bowing, scraping, acting humble, sucking phlegm, giving up your paychecks and relationships and careers to follow him around, having sex with him (as your trusted minister) if you were a cute young blonde babe, lying to people, smuggling money for him, aiding and abetting assassins -- as HE Ordered, or his role model on how to drive and how to comport oneself and file a vehicular manslaughter accident report properly and honestly like a true Master or saint, how to pay off people in hush-money settlements, and other spiritual stuff, etc etc etc. ] I find that hard to believe for most of you. I remember listening to some of you at nightly satsang [oops - the pre-video days never happened - it was all your imagination - you Westerners invented satsang, darshan, and other concepts you forced upon Maharaji] as you recounted your stories of personal growth. I used to admire you for taking up the challenge to walk “the razor’s edge” [which we'd like to run across your throats right now] and not settle for a life of conformity [like being a prestigious snake attorney . hahahaha] I revered the nobility of your striving for a higher clarity, a higher understanding, and a higher love. But now, now that you are in the autumn and late summer of your lives, when the pressure to conform is far greater [there Has NEVER Been Any pressure to conform in The Cult], you have forgotten those noble stories and fairy tales [remember the tall tales Maharaji and the Indian mahatmas used to tell? Maharaji learned those fables very young, while apprenticing in the family business ], and you only see what you had to give up in order to grow. Such a shame. Guess that's why Peter Townsend wrote, 'Hope I die before I get old'. [You total loosers!]

Anyway, there's my top 10 random observations I have made of you folks over the years that I thought you’d find interesting. I know some of you are really trying to make sense out of it all, so perhaps this will help. [because you're so stupid, and I, a true devotee of The Living Master, am so bleeping smart!!! I am saved!!! You apostates are damned to be rotten vegetables for ever leaving His shelter, HIS grace, HIS mercy, His monthly participation program, HIS next jet purchases, HIS organization, HIS ocean of bliss, by HIS GRACE, THE LIVING MASTER - as if there Ever were any others besides him and his self-proclaimed divine lineage and full powers this time - 'I have come with full powers' Guru Maharaj ji. You just didn't get it. There but for the grace of God go I...]

Happy New Year! [Piss, piss, shit, fart, vomit, spit, oink, oink, oink, oink]

I rest my case!

signed,

R2Dtour
HRH Richard II
Charles GAsser [i.e. sue your asser]
caca.org

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Date: Sat, Dec 29, 2001 at 21:01:16 (EST)
From: Ulf
Email: None
To: such
Subject: great insigth, LOL. LOL. everyone read this , Nt
Message:

ffff

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Date: Sat, Dec 29, 2001 at 14:37:55 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: such
Subject: ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT, Such [nt]
Message:

[nt]

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Date: Sat, Dec 29, 2001 at 04:26:14 (EST)
From: Chuck S.
Email: None
To: R2
Subject: Your observations are lacking some depth...
Message:

The very nature of this forum is about people who are disenchanted with Maharaji, and left, for a variety of reasons. Many people had painful experiences, or have since learned, from people they trust, a lot of things that were hidden from them while they were involved with Maharaji. For some, it feels like a painful divorce. So naturally, there are a lot negative views expressed here. Some people are more angry than others, some feel more hurt than others, some get over things much more quickly, but it's not exactly the same for everyone.

Premies often try and tar us all with one brush, saying we are all unhappy and angry and full of blame, mentally disturbed, yadda yadda. It often makes premies feel better to see us as defective somehow, so they won't have to look closely at what we are saying. When they come here, they look for that evidence, and find it hard to see much else, because the more we are like you, the more you might be like us. That makes premies feel uncomfortable.

Premies DO like to think of themselves as 'special' somehow; they are Maharaji's 'premies/students', they have his 'Knowledge/understanding'. They have something other people are lacking. They have a Master. They have Knowledge.

Since leaving the cult over a year ago, I've seen that premies, really, aren't any different than anyone else. Some of them are crazy and have mental problems. Some are very nice, loving people, some are nasty and hateful, some have successful careers, and would be considered by the societies they live in to be quite normal. Some have substance abuse problems, some don't, some are rich, some poor, some healthy, some not, etc. You get the idea.

Well, ditto the above for the exes too. Both premies and exes are part of the human race, with all that entails. The only difference between them is, some still believe that Maharaji is the souce of something special, and some have stopped believing that. How we deal with it is as diverse as we all are.

Myself, there are people I like and some I don't like, and some are premies and some are not. I didn't come here to join a group. We're very unsyncronized!

I worked through a lot of emotional stuff on this forum in the past year, and I've been helped a lot. I really don't talk much about Maharaji any more, because I now find the topic rather boring. I don't NEED to come here anymore. I have made some friends here though, and I talk to them here, and by email and sometimes meet them off-line. I don't talk so much here anymore, because I want to give new people the chance to have the same help I was offered.

Visiting this forum it's easy to get the idea that our lives revolve around hating Maharaji, because dissatisfaction with Maharaji IS the designated topic of this forum. That is what you see here. That is what people come here to talk about. You could wrongly conclude that we are therefore 'obsessed'. But there is more to us than what you see here! We have plenty of other things going on in our lives. When here, we discuss the forum topic, that's all.

Premies often think we are hateful because we critisize Maharaji, because Preimes don't DO that. But we aren't premies anymore, and to us he is nothing special, he's one of many human beings, only he has done a lot of things at the expense of others, that need to be scrutinized, so we can see the whole picture, not just the carefully edited part Maharaji wanted us to see and concentrate on. We are not afraid to do that.

Before you come here to inform us that we are dishonest, maybe you need to face a few things. Who is telling you not to doubt his purity? Who is saying he doesn't want to be asked questions? Not even by people who profess to love him and call him Master? Who is telling you that you need him, and can't be happy without him? Who is keeping secrets from you? Who is covering up things, collecting a lot of money to "spread Knowlege" but surrounding his finances with a impenetrable wall of secrecy? Who is hiding, and from what?

We aren't telling you not to look at this or not to look at that, we are willing to look at and scrutinize everything to do with Maharaji. That is what we do here. That is what we invite others, like you, to do. That is also what your Master is forbidding you to do, because he won't hold up to scrutiny. If this were all just misunderstandings, then he should be explaining it now. He could have explained it long ago. But he won't. He CAN'T. He's hiding.

Are you hiding, too? It can be painful to look at the truth sometimes. But I think it hurts more to have to be hiding from it. The truth needs no defense, it never has to hide, it always holds up to scrutiny. Lies can't do that. Give truth a chance.

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Date: Sat, Dec 29, 2001 at 16:01:59 (EST)
From: Inside Edition
Email: None
To: Chuck S.
Subject: Every premie should read this, Chuck
Message:

Well said, sir!

Thank you.

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Date: Sat, Dec 29, 2001 at 10:46:07 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Chuck S.
Subject: On the nail Chuck.
Message:

It's sad to see a premie with a parrot standing on his head, swearing on the life of his children that he's never been near a parrot in his life.

Anth wants a cracker.

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Date: Sat, Dec 29, 2001 at 09:51:31 (EST)
From: Maria
Email: None
To: Chuck S.
Subject: Re: Your observations are lacking some depth...
Message:

Actually let's be completely frank R2 this is all the usual premie justification for your dysfunction.

My experience so far, left a year ago, and am grateful for the explanations and the rationale expressed by the people on this site. When truth can be heard and spoken and people supported, unlike the shambles of EV where nothing but power tripping and conceptworld was allowed.

The most important thing now at the autumn of my life is my health, without which there is no life.

Living proof of the damage inculcated by this cult and the abusive mindset the fatboy has sucked us into has left me damaged. Please start to realise that body, mind and spirit are ALL CONNECTED UP.

Yesterday I saw the most excellent therapist who immediately spotted that my heart energy was misplaced and draining energy from my liver. As a genius of a man he was able to ask me what were the huge regrets that were pulling my liver energy away to my heart to compensate for the down heart energy. He in a flash spotted my deficiency, it has become a real thing in my body, he knew nothing of my guru dependency, had never heard of him, but recognised the damage this abusive justification was doing in my body straight away. And the damage it was doing to my heart and my system generally.

Yes,regrets that I had spent so long of my life justifying all this when at the autumn of my life there are no fruits to harvest with the EV/guru trip. Justification of concepts????

The gururubbish has actually damaged my own personal belief system and therefore the physical system. Get it.

So anyway, I just want to say this because after all the nice intellectual stuff is sorted through the physical damage that our bodies have suffered after years of justifying gubu’s abuse is very very real.

I would also suggest to anyone leaving that once the intellectual stuff has sorted through to get some advise and some physical work done on yourself as well.

What I couldn’t believe is that I never had any sort of relationship with wonderboy, just the abstract relationship, seemed so sort of nutty when I told the therapist, it was the organisation or even the concepts of the gururubbish, I was having the relationship with!!

So don’t try justifying why ex-premies are here or not here, just listen to yourself and know that the justification is your own misplaced defence mechanism to keep that greedy indian fed on YOUR ENERGY.

Fine if you want someone else to rule your life but don’t come here and justify to us what YOU think we’re all about. You have no idea whilst you’re still in the grips of the EV PROPAGANDA trip.

Give us a break and go away now and think about why you post here, maybe luck will drag you away to a more normal and sociable existence.

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Date: Sat, Dec 29, 2001 at 00:22:11 (EST)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: R2
Subject: What Season Exactly?
Message:

A tad arrogant & presumptuous, & peculiar holiday sharing.......!! Had a bad one did we?
Specially loved
that I thought you’d find interesting. I know some of you are really trying to make sense out of it all so perhaps this will help.
How sweet of you

1. Bad psychology.
Never heard of righteous anger, justice?
My experience of the exes I've met is that they enjoy life above the average, but it's a small sample size.
As for myself, it varies, when one of my closest mates nearly died in front of me earlier in the year, no I wasn't a happy bunny.
But then out dancing to this really deep dark uk underground garage in brixton the other week total joy.

2.Re community
I've found little sense of what I mean by community here, I've made a couple of good mates here, but it's hardly community like it is with the sound system I'm involved with, or my other mates.
You not into communicating with people then?

3.So silly it's not worth commenting on, but even if it was true it would be understandable, given posts like yours which display a stunning lack of sensityivity and awareness.

4.Is just stupid, if you're a premie you saying gm never affected your beliefs, get real.

5. Darshan this year, calling himself the perfect master this year, everything run through him, & that's not a cult, you're a joker if nothing else.
Did you kiss his feet this year by the way, do you do this with lots of people?

6.I got loads from the practice of k, that's why I left.
Re gm taking over, what it took him 30 years to work this out, he's a bright lad then obviously.
When that so assiduously fails, and he can no longer blame ev/premies, I wonder what you'll come up with.

7. One word to say here, Jagdeo

8. Again one word to say, jagdeo, but then maybe in your world paedophilia encouraged is a small thing.

9& 10, obviously you haven't read posts from a number of people here who got a lot from the practice, you also obviously forget the psycho pressure put on ashram premies for years by gm.

By the way, why, if your life is so precious, do YOU spend so much time here observing, that's seriously sad in your terms.

Now I'll bet you lack the courage to follow your post up, can almost guarantee it.

A D at best for that one, almost certainly could do better if not so infected with cult thinking.

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Date: Fri, Dec 28, 2001 at 21:51:28 (EST)
From: Jim Sander
Email: None
To: R2
Subject: R2:How about your name, for starters...
Message:

Dear R2:

Nice try, but the feel good piece you just posted is silly, filled with lots of hidden agendas, and just plain wrong in many instances.

If you would like to engage in an honest and sincere discussion of some of these issues, you could start by posting with your real name.
By doing this, it would be a step in the right direction for you and your credibility in this potential dialogue, which could be illuminating for everyone, your master included.

When people pull this 'hit and run' type of posting, it is quite obvious that they are hiding and also have something to hide.
Generally, they stay around for a few posts, and when the questions become too confronting, and some of their 'doubts' arise, or they can't answer simple, straight forward questions, they quickly vanish.

If you would like to really communicate, post your real name and I will be happy to begin a dialogue with you.
Either here on the forum, or through e-mails.
I'm sure there are at least a dozen others who would be glad to do so as well.

The ball's in your court, R2....

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Date: Fri, Dec 28, 2001 at 22:16:58 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Jim Sander
Subject: Re: R2:is probly richard the II
Message:

who posted here a while ago and had to add the II to his moniker to differentiate him from richard rogers.

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Date: Sat, Dec 29, 2001 at 15:30:31 (EST)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Good observation janet! [nt]
Message:

[nt]

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Date: Sat, Dec 29, 2001 at 00:21:35 (EST)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: R2 Detour again - it's a troll [nt]
Message:

[nt]

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Date: Sat, Dec 29, 2001 at 05:51:51 (EST)
From: such
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: R2Dtour trolling 4 O'Massa
Message:

pat, that's what I thought of, too, when I first saw R2's post and went offline to channel his real underlying message -- R2Dtour. then came back online and -- hahaha

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Date: Sat, Dec 29, 2001 at 14:39:13 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: such
Subject: R2Dtour = Turner (new incarnation) [nt]
Message:

[nt]

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Date: Sat, Dec 29, 2001 at 10:51:16 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: SC
Subject: What's that funny pink fat thing?
Message:

What's that funny pink fat thing on the floor? Is it a mutant pig, or a deflating childrens toy?

No. It's SC with his head stuck up his arse again.

Somebody get some butter and some rope. We'll have him out in no time.

Anth, trust me I'm a doctor.

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Date: Sat, Dec 29, 2001 at 03:01:57 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: SC
Subject: ''straight talking honest truthful?''
Message:

Sorry, I think I must have missed something. Do you mean that a cult apologist is not being deceitful when he posts anonymously to criticize a forum where most of the posters put their real names to their words?

No, don't answer. I see it. It's that old cult ethics again or lack of. It's fine to be deceitful. After all Balyouguesswhat is. It's only a game.

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Date: Sun, Dec 30, 2001 at 00:13:13 (EST)
From: You mean
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: straight talking honest truthful
Message:

people like this list of cheap plates?

Oh sure... they're such fine examples of you 'kind'

like say...mahatma coat
maharaji Confronted
wall fly
Inside edition
yea right
above all else

Yea, all great shining examples of honesty truth and light aren't they just.

Those six were discovered after 20 seconds worth of scanning, the real ugly trolls you support never ever use their own names and you bloody well know it .

Ah, but to live a lie you gotta believe a lie right?

he he

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Date: Sun, Dec 30, 2001 at 11:12:56 (EST)
From: Mahatma Coat
Email: None
To: You mean
Subject: Thank you, unknown Premie Ji
Message:

Yea, all great shining examples of honesty truth and light aren't they just.

Oh Premie Ji. You don't say who you are but are making Mahatma Ji so much happiness. You are saying that Mahatma Ji is shining example and that is all I ever wanted to be. You and I both know we are only mere dust at His Most Holy Lotus Feet. But if we can be useful in His prachar, then perhaps we will one day Come Home to Him or at least get tickets in first row.

If you are ever confused by nasty words of the Monmats who are posting here, please ask Mahatma Ji for help. I am not a troll but a real person and good friend of Richard who knows how to reach me.

Sing with Mahatma Ji now . . . 'We are one in the spirit, one in the Lord.'

Your brother,
Mahatma Coat

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Date: Sun, Dec 30, 2001 at 03:46:51 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: You mean
Subject: Making copies of your own posts, Roupell????
Message:

You posted this same message to me on LIG.

I give you the same answer. The aliases you mention are satirical aliases. We all know who posted them.

Do you think all ex-premie communication takes place here? There are four pw forums and many email groups. The forum is the tip of the iceberg. For every one person posting here there are many more in email contact with us.

Where else do you think many of us get our inspiration to keep going? Or the confidence to stand up to CAC attacks and anonymous cultweasels. It's because so many premies have been leaving in the past year since the KITs thingies and are emailing us.

The answer to the standard premie question about why we just don't walk and forget about it and leave rawat alone is because at least once a week I get another email from another premie who is freaked about turning into a rotting vegetable thanks to your immoral and irresponsible master. That's why. He has fucked with too may peoples' minds.

There's a lot more happening that you don't know about than what you see here - including letting each other into what satirical aliases we post under.:)

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Date: Mon, Dec 31, 2001 at 02:57:05 (EST)
From: SC
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Of course Conlon - and yours
Message:

Well folks, here's another classic Conlon foot straight into the Conlon mouth...

'Where else do you think many of us get our inspiration to keep going? Or the confidence to stand up to CAC attacks and anonymous cultweasels.'

Exactly Pat -, that's what we've been trying to tell you. You are in a coven.
You do not dare to LET GO of the crutches and stand on your own feet and trust your own experience like others who post here do.

We don't have any little behind the scenes Secret Seventeen club to shore up flagging confidence and receive 'inspiration' because we stand on our own feet and we get our inspiration from what we experience individually within ourselves.

You have just confirmed to the world Patrick, that you are a tightly knit CULT who are totally and completely co-dependent on each others support to remain convinced of your own position. In other words, on your OWN you are the same doubt and fear filled confused soul you always were and you haven't in fact 'moved on' at all. No wonder fear and uncertainty sit behind you like hungry shadows.

How long will these co-dependencies last?

Until you find a more convenient crutch to hang your delusions on.

or .......you keep walking on...

and accidentally trip over a rock with the words LOST HUMILITY inscribed on it.

It's a long walk bro....

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Date: Mon, Dec 31, 2001 at 03:53:46 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: SC
Subject: Thanks for your beautiful satsang
Message:

You don't know me and you know that you don't know me and you are simply making up nasty negative things about me in order to make yourself feel better for being in a silly Hindu cult. I forgive you.

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Date: Sun, Dec 30, 2001 at 11:00:53 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Hey Pat, Don't Blow Our Cover....Shush! [nt]
Message:

[nt]

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Date: Fri, Dec 28, 2001 at 21:05:57 (EST)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: R2
Subject: You sound like Charles Glasser
Message:

or whatever his name is, but I could be wrong. So Maharaji has become hands on with 'disseminating knowledge'. I guess that's why nobody gets it in the West these days.

It's available in Sainsbury's supermarkets for just less than £2 which is about $3. But I know what you mean. I wouldn't want to associate myself with this bunch of ingrates. They're all unhappy, whining losers unlike yourself who obviously has the stamina to succeed where all these retrograde people failed.

I guess some of us were born for success and the rest just have to pick up the crumbs.

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