Peg -:- How did I believe those lies. -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 09:38:22 (EST)

__ PatC -:- Excellent, Peg -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 14:35:28 (EST)

__ Vicki -:- Some of you were smarter. -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 12:13:00 (EST)

__ Jim -:- Great post ........ but -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 11:57:38 (EST)

__ __ Peg -:- Re: Great post ........ but -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 04:10:31 (EST)

__ __ Deborah -:- Hi Jim, I agree with you [nt] -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 18:18:48 (EST)

__ __ Joe -:- Lied to premies v. Premie liars/Inner Circle -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 12:27:57 (EST)

__ __ __ Inside Edition -:- Re: Lied to premies v. Premie liars/Inner Circle -:- Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 00:34:16 (EST)

__ magiclara -:- Marvelous Peg absolutly marvelous nt -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 11:43:30 (EST)

__ JHB -:- Great Post, Peg, all 3 times! -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 11:27:37 (EST)

__ __ Peg -:- Thanks John first time i've copied in. [nt] -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 14:44:07 (EST)

__ michael donner -:- wonderful post, nt -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 11:04:16 (EST)

__ ExP -:- Re: How did I believe those lies. -:- Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 10:21:41 (EST)

Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 09:38:22 (EST)
From: Peg
Email: None
To: All
Subject: How did I believe those lies.
Message:

I have been wondering more and more how I managed to live with all the weird and inconsistent beliefs I subscribed to so recently. I was a liar in so many ways when I was a premie. I was a liar in that I never questioned the party line.

I was there in the days when he openly said guru is greater than god, give me the reins of your life etc.

In those early days it was easy to believe for me I think it's possible he even believed it himself.. It was easy to believe because it was reinforced constantly by gopi-chat in the day, large pictures on every wall, a huge investment in that almost everything I did was either to get closer to m inside or to serve his holey mission, topped off with 3hrs of mutual brainwashing and an hour or two of exhausted nodding under a blanket every night. In those days I wouldn't call myself a liar just brainwashed and deluded. And I can forgive myself for that.. I was young and vulnerable and a bit above myself. One of the chosen few with a mission to bring peace to the world was something to be.

But in 1975 I left that factory farm environment and had my first real doubts. This is where I first started to lie to myself.

And when the mutual brainwashing was halted I thought we were lucky, I had recognized that some of my fellow devotees would bullshit a bit and surely it would be so beneficial just to hear the pure words of the master and look at his glorious form. (I know, I know!)

But slowly I grew up and began to mix in the wider world (before my kids went to school I don't think I knew anyone that wasn't a premie). I remember well in about 1984 wanting to ask Maharaji if he was the only way. I could see the same belief in followers of other religions and cults. I never asked him.. I used to write an affirmation…. 'I am now ready to fearlessly examine my relation with Maharaji' Well I may have been ready!!! Here the lying escalated. I hardly talked about Maharaji after this, not even to my children. (the mother's instinct won through). I adjusted my beliefs gradually to enable me to continue to be a premie.

Lie number one; I continued to persuade myself I loved Maharaji. I left the ashram in 1975, I had fallen in love with a real person, people like Saphalanand were smoking dope and such with some of the ashram premies. This was in London. I was in what Glen W called a non-satsang ashram there was more room to think and desire than in the previous ashrams I'd been in. There was some indecision about whether we would both leave but I left anyway and remember saying 'I don't belong here I don't love Maharaji anymore.' I went to Edinburgh, a place I had loved before K, I visited the ashram there and being an outsider for the first time in years saw a really depressed and unfriendly group of people, they didn't talk to each other. The next year for me was very hard emotionally, I was in a right state but blamed it on leaving the ashram and my own and my new partners (he did leave) failings. Surrounded by premies and satsang, I did not pursue my doubts but drowned them in SS&M and as much D as we could afford.

Lie number two. I continued to tell myself, secretly inside, that Maharaji was in some way divine. This was a lie because, if I had truly followed through and examined the doubt about 'only way' I would have probably ended up realizing more. The lie was that I just told myself it would all be made clear at the right time M was my divine enlightened master and knew best. I let this question rest. It made me feel uncomfortable whenever I met a devotee of Rajneesh or Babaji or a spiritual Christian, I never met them with a similar devotional fervor which, looking back was because I didn't honestly believe it anymore, I was lying.

Lie number three; I continued to pay lip service to Knowledge as the manifestation of God within. Since 1979 I had my third child and stopped regular meditation. I realised that what I had always thought was nectar was in fact the discharge of electricity between gold and mercury in my mouth. Nothing had really changed in my meditation since I first started practicing….I did often enjoy it when I did it, and occasionally experienced lovely out of body floating sensations and euphoria, but NOTHING that I could remotely say with any sort of certainty was an experience of god within (whatever that may be) or was nearly as mind blowing as LSD. It did not necessarily make anything better for me when I did it, although I worried about becoming a rotting cabbage at first. Then in the eighties I tried rebirthing (a breathing technique) and had a much more powerful and reliable experience with this. I justified it by saying that rebirthing cleared the way for the experience of knowledge… but I didn't even practice those famous techniques. I would tend to attribute any good feeling to my sporadic practicing of the knowledge and being a (sshh!) devotee of the perfect master. This was not rational and did me no good at all. I was lying.

There are probably loads more and there is definitely the one about his beautiful form.( I always wished he had nice eyes and why was he so fat.) I just wanted to have a go at working things out on paper like people do here,. Quite enjoyed it but it took me sooo long!

Peg

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 14:35:28 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Peg
Subject: Excellent, Peg
Message:

Perhaps that's the story for many of us non-ashram fringe premies who flirted with our minds. I sure know that I forced myself to love the gooroo against my instincts right from the get go. Mostly I faked my faith in him and hyped up my devotion out of fear, guilt and superstition.

JHB said something below about those long term doubts probably making it easier to finally leave. They just kept getting louder and louder until I could no longer ignore them. I think the final straw was when rawat put up his revisionist website. It became obvious that he was the liar.

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 12:13:00 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: Peg
Subject: Some of you were smarter.
Message:

Okay, a lot of you were smarter. I can't believe I never saw through any of this. Honestly, if it weren't for EPO I'd still be trying to suffer through videos and broadcasts and events, and never have known
how sweet it really is to feel my life again, free of the shackles of practicing knowledge and devotion to one who is the ultimate lie, the ultimate living lie.

No matter how impatient you feel about yourself, it can never ever compare to the lies that we were force fed. You strike me as an incredibly honest person. Maybe that's why this seems so glaringly obvious to you now. I guess we all need kindness towards ourselves. We gave it to Maharaji and he didn't deserve it.

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 11:57:38 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Peg
Subject: Great post ........ but
Message:

Peg,

The only caveat I have about calling that self-deception 'lying' was that we were set up specifically to doubt our own bullshit-detector. Yes, we all lied about the Emperor's New Clothes but we'd accepted a directive of No Doubt / Self-Doubt that made it impossible for us to even listen to ourselves. So 'lying' seems a little harsh to me. Somehow, though, the game's changed to a point where I think it is a fair term for what premies do now as they try to cope with the truth about M as it's surfaced. And no, I'm not just saying that because I'm now on the comfortable side of that moral quagmire. I just think that the game's evolved to that level where protecting M now, in the face of all the evidence against him, much of if coming from M himself of course, is indeed indefensible lying.

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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 04:10:31 (EST)
From: Peg
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Great post ........ but
Message:

Jim, looking at my post again I agree it is perhaps a bit harsh. I do think I was dishonest, but in a way that is very common to all people and as you say, understandable in the way we were programmed.

It seems so transparently obviously a useless cult to me now and I can see the points which could have lead me to leave so much earlier.

I am not saying my life was wasted, by the way. Just the old wisdom in hindsight I suppose.

peg

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 18:18:48 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Hi Jim, I agree with you [nt]
Message:

[nt]

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 12:27:57 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: Kevjo@mindspring.com
To: Jim
Subject: Lied to premies v. Premie liars/Inner Circle
Message:

Jim, agreed that it is a lot harder to lie to oneself these days, but I also think there is a division among premies. There are the premie 'average-Joes' who I think are the ones leaving in droves these days, partly because they can no longer afford to be in that very expensive cult, and then there are the 'inner circle' crowd. The people from the Passages video were mostly from that crowd.

Plus, it was very clear Passages was for the purpose of indoctrinating the existing, plebian, premies into the re-write of history that Maharaji wants to put out, mouthed by the inner circle gang.

Inside Edition, down below, said the following, which I think is very true and very important, especially when we think about who did CAC, who hacked the EPO site, and who might do just about anything to protect Maharaji's big ass.

The Malibu inner circle (Gallway, Pascotto brothers, Bonthous, etc) as well as the UK branch (Whittaker, Collier, Greaves, etc)
obviously will say and do ANYTHING to please their Lord. How can there be anything wrong with divine deception if you are following direct agya? If they don't, they risk their ultimate nightmare - pissing off the Lord, and being banished. Just ask Bonthous what that feels like!

This is also, in my opinion, what makes them all so incredibly dangerous.

I think this is very perceptive, and very true.

BTW -- great post Peg. It's that kind of analysis that sets you free.

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Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 00:34:16 (EST)
From: Inside Edition
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: Lied to premies v. Premie liars/Inner Circle
Message:

Thanks, Joe.
I have a difficult time remembering the PAM's perspective, having been out of Rawat's grasp for some time. It really is like speaking with aliens to talk to these guys. They are the closest disciples of the living lord, and anything and everything is totally justified in his service. That is quite dangerous, to say the least.

I really get a kick out of the fact that the big-shot PAMs get copied on all the posts here that mention them by name by the official EV monitor (unless that has been discontinued by recent budget cuts, but I doubt it).
I am sure you also know that you won't hear from Mrs. Pascotto in response to your letter; premies who are known to post here are considered automatically out-of-the-club.

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 11:43:30 (EST)
From: magiclara
Email: None
To: Peg
Subject: Marvelous Peg absolutly marvelous nt
Message:

t

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 11:27:37 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Peg
Subject: Great Post, Peg, all 3 times!
Message:

Great post. I was also lying to myself for so long, and I think I knew it, which was why it was realtively easy for me to exit. The main feeling was one of relief that I don't have to lie anymore or believe such rubbish.

BTW, I removed the two extra copies of your post:-)

John the Forum Elf assistant number 2 (part-time)

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 14:44:07 (EST)
From: Peg
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Thanks John first time i've copied in. [nt]
Message:

[nt]

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 11:04:16 (EST)
From: michael donner
Email: None
To: Peg
Subject: wonderful post, nt
Message:

nt

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Date: Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 10:21:41 (EST)
From: ExP
Email: None
To: Peg
Subject: Re: How did I believe those lies.
Message:

Peg

Beautiful post. I was especially caught by the words, as below, as it reinforces the constant need to love oneself and not doubt one's own thoughts.

---
-
And I can forgive myself for that.. I was young and vulnerable and a bit above myself. One of the chosen few with a mission to bring peace to the world was something to be.

---
-

You may wish to edit your message - large chunks seems to be repeated.

Love
ExP

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