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Premies & Ex-Followers Discussing the Techniques Part 2 Part 1: That Beautiful Place.

The following is an excerpt of different threads over the Knowledge Techniques' issue, between Ex-Followers and Premies on the Ex-premie.org Forum. Posted: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 07:18:27 (EDT) Original: NA Posted by: grrlzone Recipient: All Subject: the secret and sacred techniques Message: Since I left the techniques now seem very strange. It took me a while to figure out that the sounds I heard during 'music' had more to do with the blood ciculating in my head than tuning into some inner cosmic harmony, and that the light I saw was just the product of a slight pressure on my retina. But nectar? Taste buds tasting themselves? Mucous? Holy Name was really hyperventilating, no wonder I felt light-headed and airy. I recall some premies talking about seeing a thousand suns, the Great Hamster walking through a wood toward them, blue tunnels, the universe, listening to celestial sounds, overflowing with nectar, even levitating. How do we explain those strange things? Group hypnosis? A desire to out pious the pious? Lots of premies would boast about their meditation experiences. Did they make it up in order to get some cred? All those snoring blankets sliding down the wall... Posted: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 15:33:26 (EDT) Original: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 07:18:27 (EDT) Posted by: JW Recipient: grrlzone Subject: Re: the secret and sacred techniques Message: I know some people attribute positive things to meditation and I don't doubt it might benefit some people. But the meditation Maharaji advocated was not really for the purpose of having a nice 'experience.' [To this day I HATE the use of that meaningless word.] It was for the purpose of keeping you from thinking objectively about the belief system he was selling, about who the hell Maharaji is, and to give the whole thing an aura of spirituality, something very attractive to many of us westerners, especially back in the 70s. In those days, remember, we were supposed to meditate constantly [it was a commandment], both nectar and 'holy name' and most of us certainly resorted to it when our rationality and values broke through to the surface pointing out the hypocrisy and contradictions of Maharaji and his cult. If that didn't work, we were instructed just to repress our doubts pursuant to his other commandment to leave no room for doubt in your mind. This is what was so damaging about it, and why I don't do the four techniques that I received in the knowledge sesseion, because they are, to me, associated with mind control, authoritarianism, mindless devotion, and repression of my own better judgment. If meditation were as enjoyable as some people claim, they would do it a lot more than they do. Maharaji just uses meditation as the hook to get people to think there is something special being 'disseminated.' But really, it's just the outward bait in his 'anti-mind' and 'worship me' religion. Posted: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 17:39:49 (EDT) Original: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 15:33:26 (EDT) Posted by: grrlzone Recipient: JW Subject: Re: the secret and sacred techniques Message: And how a 'nice experience' can involve forcing ones tongue into an unnatural position is beyond me anyway. It hurt. I heard that some premies actually cut themselves to facilitate nectar. I was given special K when I was only 13. I had to meditate an hour before school and an hour before I went to sleep. I did that for five years. I'd even meditate on the bus to school, hyperventilate during class, whenever I could. Yes, it's all about stilling the mind and preventing critical thought. They even gave out 'little knowledge' to kids in the seventies. It was just the eyeball pressing one. We did that in primary school. Would spend hours pushing our eyes back and talking about the light we saw. We'd tell each other that when we grew up we wanted to be premies, not brain-surgeons (or is there a metaphorical connection..), not doctors or lawyers, but brainwashed slaves. I recall marathon meditation weekends where lots of premies would fart and hyperventilate under their blankets for up to five hours. I found it really hard to sit still for so long and I kept wanting to go to the toilet but felt that Mr Mind was just trying to distract me from the Experience (of having a full bladder and young limbs that should have been running about in the clean air outside...) And those bits of wood we had to lean on. How very very freaky. Mine became a strange fetish object. I'd wrap it up in my devotional blue blanket after every hour long session, say a few words of thanks to Satguru and then catch the bus to school and learn all about Hitler... Posted: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 11:20:46 (EDT) Original: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 07:18:27 (EDT) Posted by: Susan Recipient: grrlzone Subject: Re: the secret and sacred techniques Message: I think they did make them up. When I recieved K I hung out with a group of people who claimed to Astral Travel and visit eachother during meditation. I wondered why I was so unholy that all I did was fall asleep. Sometimes when I am stressed I still find myself with my tongue up behind my uvula. I get mad when this happens. I always wondered why they changed from hard eyeball pressing to light just touch your eyes. I am guessing Posted: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 17:43:06 (EDT) Original: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 11:20:46 (EDT) Posted by: grrlzone Recipient: Susan Subject: Re: the secret and sacred techniques Message: Hi Susan! I too sometimes find my tongue wondering down the back of my throat. I wa always a bit concerned with the profile this gave me though. Made me look as though I had a premature double-chin . Maybe it was finally my vanity that stopped me doing that all the time. Long live female vanity! Posted: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 11:14:32 (EDT) Original: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 07:18:27 (EDT) Posted by: Way Recipient: grrlzone Subject: Re: the secret and sacred techniques Message: A big taboo in premieland is talking about one's own inner experience of Knowledge. Other taboos were often broken, but generally the premies I knew did in fact keep quiet about their own experiences of meditation. Occasionally a premie in our ashram would praise her experience, which seemed like bragging, and occasionally a certain other premie would publicly lament his personal lacking of experience, which would prove fruitless and embarassing. (Our ashram was initially co-ed). In retrospect, of course, it is obvious that if premies routinely and honestly compared experiences, the myth of Knowledge would be threatened and people would have realized that not much divine bliss was going on under the meditation blankets. Premies do definitely have a positive experience, but it is based much more on factors other than the four meditation techniques. The feeling of community is very powerful and comforting. The experience of satsang, ( i.e. sitting together and listening intently as one person speaks from their own experience) is likewise very powerful and comforting. Religious ritual, such as arti, again is comforting. As are festivals, doing selfless acts of service, depending on an authority figure, expressing acts of devotion to God and Truth, etc. I think the basic feeling is a sence of peace and harmony that manifests as a calm mind and open heart, specifically a tangible but mysterious feeling in the chest of 'love.' I remember the first time I had an inkling that premies generally had difficulty with meditation. In Tucson, Maharaji said something to the effect 'I bet a lot of you would like to know the secret of meditation.' There was a huge response of agreement. I slowly discovered that premies in fact were generally lousy meditators. Since I myself had practiced meditations of various sorts before receiving Knowledge, I never related to the techniques as religiously as most ashramites. I noticed from what people would say that most premies approached meditation as an effort to have a certain experience. Quite the opposite approach is necessary in which a person sits and allows quietness to happen, to gain a feeling of acceptance. Acceptance of what is at that moment, no goals in sight. Chasing a preconceived phenonemon of any sort is counter productive. Maharaji as a meditation teacher is not worth his weight in dogshit. Light does glow inside. Love does reign over fear. One's separate self does dissolve into Self. But Maharaji's four postures of 15 minutes each, as he prescribes them, put people on a wild goose chase. I sometimes likened it to going to a carnival, jumping on the divine music ride for awhile, rushing over to the inner light ride, and so on. And ending up disappointed. Completely the wrong idea. In fact, spectacular experiences, when they do happen, are problematic. Openly comparing meditation experiences here as exes is a good way to deprogram from Knowledge, but it is still a bad idea for anyone who still engages in any type of inner practice, since nothing could be more individual and private. Posted: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 17:50:45 (EDT) Original: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 11:14:32 (EDT) Posted by: grrlzone Recipient: Way Subject: Re: the secret and sacred techniques Message: Only 15 min! So 90s. But I agree that it met peoples needs for community. I think you're spot on about all of that. For me though I'd read 'calm mind' as 'brinwashed into obediance mind'. And I'd rather experience some calm by walking in a wood or watching my darling sleep. The whole thing was far too introverted. Posted: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 17:15:42 (EDT) Original: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 11:14:32 (EDT) Posted by: Grace Recipient: Way Subject: Experiences of Knowledge Message: K techniques have worked well for meditation for me, and as has been discussed here before, I go along with those of you who believe it is a biochemical/brain wiring thing that makes the most difference. The techniques do not seem to work for everyone, no matter how hard they seem to try. I was very surprised the first time I was told by an old-timer (still an avid devotee, a 'lifer') that his experiences of meditation were almost nil. For him, Knowledge was just the whole trip/trappings. Then there are those who have told me about how strong their experiences are and I know both of the parties are equally as devoted, so the difference must be in the brain. I think some of us just lucked out on the meditation-related neurotransmitter lotto. Posted: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 17:59:19 (EDT) Original: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 17:15:42 (EDT) Posted by: grrlzone Recipient: Grace Subject: Re: Experiences of Knowledge Message: For me, and I suspect for many others, I can't seperate the techniques from the Hamster. Also there was a lot of very heavy stuff associated with K. I heard many stories about ex-premies who had revealed K and suddenly been run over by a bus the next week and so on. Instant karma, man... It wasn't until I was about 21 that I finally, and with the help of some wine and pot, told some friends about the techniques. I was scared at the time and wondered for a while afterward if something really bad was going to happen to me. There was something rather too heavy about the context in which these techniques were passed on. And as we now know they are very common in India, and not a secret anymore. I 'initiated' an old friend of mine electronically a couple of years ago. He'd also grown up with premies and he just couldn't believe how mad it all was. We laughed ourselves silly. Posted: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 14:15:32 (EDT) Original: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 11:14:32 (EDT) Posted by: Lee Recipient: Way Subject: Re: the secret and sacred techniques Message: Hello Way I thought your post was very interesting. I always kept pretty quiet about my experiences of meditation because I had a lot of problems with it. I only really ever enjoyed Holy Name - the other three I really struggled with. It used to piss me off when premies would talk about their light experiences - made me feel like there was something wrong with me or that I hadn't been revealed the technique properly in the knowledge session. By the way, I was a bit confused by something you said - In fact, spectacular experiences, when they do happen, are problematic - what did you mean? Do you still meditate these days? I can't anymore - for the moment, I feel there are too many associations with maharaji that I would just rather not have. Thank you for sharing your views. Lee Posted: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 17:57:04 (EDT) Original: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 14:15:32 (EDT) Posted by: Way Recipient: Lee Subject: To Lee Message: Hello Lee, I remember you from some of your past posts (it's hard to keep track, but eventually one forms an impression). I now consider Rawat a great thief. It's ironic, really. He creates an environment where people can explore and express their inate thirst for higher truth. And then, as we attempt to quench this thirst via Maharaji and Knowledge, we associate all our inate experiences with his face, his name, his words. (Not any different from other paths and religions with their respective images and dogmas). But after we reject Rawat, we find that the established associations will not go away. The road to our own higher self seems tainted and linked irrevocably to the old ways. We cannot proceed. A great theft has occured. This act of thievery is the reason behind the great anger felt by many exes. Several current premies have come on-line here and have been unable to understand this anger which they find excessive. But I do not find it excessive. In fact, Rawat's crime is horrendously hurtful and I personally think that exes should do more to expose the fraud before more people are victims. At least we have this forum which is available to the public. When an ex-premie is unable to enjoy an association with their own higher self, they remain a victim of Rawat. I am not saying that Jim and Jerry and JW and Roger and Anth etc should all believe in God and start meditating again, but rather that we all should be able to differentiate between what is uniquely Rawat's folly and what remains our own relationship to truth. To answer your question, I myself do meditate, but I do not use any of the techniques of Knowledge. The only thing I seek within is that power that is above me. I approach only so far as I am able to leave behind my own individual will. That is what I mean by spectacular experiences of meditation being problematic - I don't mean that thay are necessarily good or bad but just that they are really not the point and our progress stalls if we seek them. And even when they come, they can be deceptive. The point, instead, is learning to love. There is something that we want, when we are born, when we are on our death beds, and perpetually inbetween. And it is above us. This is the point. And there is no other valid reason for meditation. (Stress relief is a side effect). Progress in meditation proceeds exactly opposite to the way progress is made achieving our goals in the material world. Exactly, diametrically opposite. Jesus expressed this idea many times, 'the first shall be last,' etc. etc. And, to be fair, Rawat also frequently teaches this idea, but he then attempts to realize this ideal in the material world and this is a great error. He only ends up subjugating his followers in pitiful ways. All cults fail (such as the one in Austria that you mentioned below) when they attempt to bring the inner ideals into play in the material world, where they definitely do not apply. For instance, free love is fine spiritually, but physically there are a few complications, right? In the same way, surrender to the higher power is the true way of the Tao, interiorly, but surrender to fatguru, physically, sure as hell ain't. Similarly, waiting upon grace interiorly is all we can do, but waiting for grace to fill your pocketbook with hard cash is generally ineffective. On and on. We who made the mistake of following a guru must work to reclaim our inherent power to find truth within ourselves. Posted: Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 03:49:22 (EDT) Original: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 17:57:04 (EDT) Posted by: Lee Recipient: Way Subject: Re: To Way Message: Dear Way Thank you. You have outlined something there which I haven't been able to formulate for myself - the ideals of the spiritual world do not belong in the material world and vice versa. You have comforted me somehow with your words. I've got my own personal 'House of Drek' on my hard drive - it's a folder called ex-premie stuff and it's going in there! I owe you a pint. Cheers till then. Lee Posted: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 11:52:38 (EDT) Original: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 11:14:32 (EDT) Posted by: Marianne Recipient: grrlzone Subject: Re: the secret and sacred techniques Message: Hi there grrlzone! Welcome to the Forum. As far as the meditation is concerned, I actually had a good experience with it. I never saw anyone in the light or anything like that, never tasted nectar. But the discipline of meditation and the quieting of my mind was a positive thing for me while it lasted. And yes, lots of premies fell asleep under those blankets because many of us were sleep deprived as part of our service to the Lord. You'll likely get lots of responses from ex's about their reactions to meditation because our experiences were all different. I read the post below in which you said that you had been raped by a mahatma. Grrlzone, my heart goes out to you. There are many who post here who suffered abuse at the hands of the cult and its agents, but sexual abuse by the mahatmas has to be the worst betrayal any of us could experience. The ex's who post here are very concerned and sympathetic to this problem and some of us are attempting to do something about it. We are a supportive community which cares about how the cult affected all of us, but especially about those who were deprived of their childhoods by the guru's designated saints. I see in a thread below that your first posts here met with a rather frigid reception. I am sorry that happened. Sometimes that happens here before people get to know you, and sometimes it happens even after people get to know you. It is unfortunate that this sometimes happens between the ex's. Hopefully, that whole exchange will not be replicated with anyone else. I hope that you will continue your contributions to the forum because I suspect you have a great deal to tell us and that we have a great deal to learn from you. The premies will probably attack you one time or another. It comes with the territory and their need to defend M's fading and beseiged empire. Again, welcome. Take care, Marianne Posted: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 18:10:39 (EDT) Original: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 11:52:38 (EDT) Posted by: grrlzone Recipient: Marianne Subject: Re: the secret and sacred techniques Message: Marianne, thanks so much for your warm welcome. I feel OK about the fight I had with Joey. I figure he's got a hot temper and is pretty wounded. But I really can't abide that sort of language. No excuse. Thanks for your support. I'm finding this formum very cathartic. There is so much still there that needs to be chased out of those dark places. take care Posted: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 20:20:22 (EDT) Original: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 18:10:39 (EDT) Posted by: Katie Recipient: grrlzone Subject: Another welcome to grrlzone Message: Hi grrlzone - I just wanted to echo Marianne's welcome to the forum. If my guess is right, you and I have communicated via e-mail in the past (I do have a new e-mail address now, BTW). Anyway, glad you're here and posting. Love, Katie (GRRLZ RULE!) Posted: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 18:10:39 (EDT) Original: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 11:52:38 (EDT) Posted by: grrlzone Recipient: Marianne Subject: Re: the secret and sacred techniques Message: Marianne, thanks so much for your warm welcome. I feel OK about the fight I had with Joey. I figure he's got a hot temper and is pretty wounded. But I really can't abide that sort of language. No excuse. Thanks for your support. I'm finding this formum very cathartic. There is so much still there that needs to be chased out of those dark places. take care Posted: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 12:13:26 (EDT) Original: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 11:52:38 (EDT) Posted by: Larkin Recipient: Marianne Subject: Nursery Crimes Message: Margie, Margie, man in chargie How does your Grace still flow? With waterfalls And trinket stalls And paedophiles all in a row, row, row With paedophiles all in a row. Posted: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 17:15:40 (EDT) Original: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 12:13:26 (EDT) Posted by: grrlzone - Recipient: Larkin Subject: Emily Dickinson Message: Larkin - my life is - a loaded gun - come any closer - into my point- blank- range- and you will see - your destiny Posted: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 17:21:22 (EDT) Original: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 17:15:40 (EDT) Posted by: Larkin Recipient: grrlzone - Subject: Re: Emily Dickinson Message: Didn't quite understand your reply, but I hope I haven't given any offence, grrlzone. The rhyme was directed entirely at Maharaji, and the paedophile reference was to the growing number of abuse cases that seem to have happened within DLM/EV. Sorry if I gave any other impression. Posted: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 18:04:30 (EDT) Original: Thurs, Oct 14, 1999 at 17:21:22 (EDT) Posted by: grrlzone Recipient: Larkin Subject: Re: Emily Dickinson Message: The loaded gun has been withdrawn. Confused you with ex-poet who irritates me. Not sure who is and isn't on side yet. Thought maybe you were having a go at Marianne. Just woke up. Yawn, stretch, growl.