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Date: Fri, Jul 11, 1997 at 23:42:30
(EDT)
Poster: what maharaji said
Email: tom
To: Everyone
Subject: friday night dec. 7 96
Message:
When reading this keep in mind he is talking about
himself very directly. You may not be used to how
he talks about himself but it can sound like he is
talking about others but
this is the most revealing confession ever. The
most apologetic comment he evermade was in the late
80's and was ' I'll take the blame for what
happened til now'.
'just to stop, to stop this nonsense, this game,
this russian roulette you play with your head all
day long
Do you know what it is like to live in sewage?
I did not live in sewage but I got mighty close to
it.
I mean, ohhh, it's, horrible,horrible, the stench,
the dirt, the filth, EVERWHERE. It is horrible, and
believe me I know you are afraid of sewage, andyou
should be.
But, there is another kind of sewage that I know
of.
Because sewage, actually, left alone, can sort
itself out.
But the human sewage of the mind, there is no
bacteria
for it.
The sewage, can be thrown in the ocean,so far it is
not in giant quantities, if may be able to
perculate and filter itself out. But the human
sewage of the mind, there is no ocean that can take
that.
Human sewage can be thrown in rivers and it will
carry it away. But, the mental sewage, there is no
river that will carry it, there is no bacteria that
will eat it, there is no leach field that will
clean it.
And what is it? That anger, that fear, that doubt,
that darkness that the human being is constantly
plagued by,
and has placed himself in that place.
To doubt, to doubt where there can be clarity,
where there should be clarity, my god, talk about
the ultimate sin, here is one.
Where there should be clarity, where there should
be light, there resides darkness, now thats a
crime, where there should be joy, there is sadness,
where there should be clarity, there is doubt.
Where there should be love, there is hate, where
the person, should be embracing the moment called
now, the person is stuck in yesterday, Where the
person should be free, the person is caged,
imprisoned.
You know, the bars made out of metal can be cut.
And thus a prisoner can escape from a prison, but
the bars, of the anger, and the fear, and the
doubt, and the darkness,
there is no blade manmade that will cut it.
And it is the prison of the worst kind.
Where there should be conciousness and conciousness
has no place.
I'm talking about life, the promise, the
possibility in this garden to have spring
forever.
I'm talking about to be fulfilled and to know, not
just believe, you are fulfilled. Not somebody comes
along and says now you are happy, but to be happy
because you
ARE happy. Not because somebody comes along and
says now you dont have any doubts, but to not have
any
doubts because you are SATURATED with clarity.
This is how life should be, and this is how lifecan
be, and this is how life MUST be! And do you know
why?
Because we are human beings, We are alive, THESE
are the gifts that were given to us, by the very
thing that put us on the face of the earth.
I cannot ask you to do something that you cannot
do,
I cannot ask myself to something that I cannot
do,
But to accept the joy in my life has to my
priority.
That much, I know.
That much, I understand, I have nnnooooo problem
with that, none.
What will be will be. Can I be afraid? Oh yeah, I
can paint
a picture for myself that can be frightening.
There is a simple feeling in me that is perfect, It
is simple.
When I am in that one place within, I rest, I
become me, I become whole, I begin to be in awe of
life. My whole world becomes real and I begin to be
in awe of each breath I take within me
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Date: Sat, Jul 12, 1997 at 00:05:36
(EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: what maharaji said
Subject: Re: friday night dec. 7 96
Message:
Thanks Tom!
So those are my options, huh? Either be soooooo
saturated with clarity or suffocate in the
sewage of my doubts. Hmmmmm, can a I think about it
for a few days?
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Date: Sat, Jul 12, 1997 at 01:44:07
(EDT)
Poster: like you dont know
Email:
To: signs of life
Subject: Re: friday night dec. 7 96
Message:
When I first saw that video I felt it was his best
ever. seeing him as lord for so long, it's been a
real trip snapping out of it. It is frankly amazing
that the guy with the knowledge has had that much
of a cloud on his shoulders. If he can drop the
rest of it he can be of some use. I am presently
surrounded by aspirants and half-aspirants. I get
calls from premies and one even spent the night
last night cause they asked for a ride to the
airport to go see guess who in miami. I dont say
anything. What do I want? A full time job adjusting
peoples illusions? To what? Christianity? I'm glad
m is making human type sounds, in the program
before this one, he looked up the definition of
sincere,and it said 'without pretense or deciet'
and he said 'is it possible to live like that?' So
he definately was frank at the dec. event and the
event on the 8th, he talked about being angry
regularly, frequently, and how he has to stay in
the feeling or he becomes stupid. His words. As a
starry eyed gopi all the honesty finally started
crashing my delusions. I saw the videos about the
time I came across the website. I know that the
knowledge is of great value. In spite of whatever
stupid groups claim it is part of thier
'tradition'. If the god would play it's cards
right, a lot of the religions and thier stupifying
traditions could be left in history and womens
opression could be lessened. Dark zealotry and
caste systems could be dealt a fatal blow. Slavery
in moslem countries surely could go, but oh well!
The champion of knowledge is on a huge learning
curve and time is passing. I wish him well, and if
he hits a stride, I am sure that in the future,
well just look at whats-his name-jesus, 17 years of
his life just whoops! disappeared! I wonder why
they edited those 17 years out? Could he have been
on a screwy learning curve? God is involved, so you
can count on it. I have plenty of relatives that of
course think I'm nuts. He's really great, but that
guru trip, sheesh! What do I tell them? Oh. you
were right! your christianity is obviously the way
to god. or, he's not the lord, but the knowledge is
what you want. My friends at least know me and so
they want knowledge cause I feel it and they can
tell something is worth it. My -ahem- champion, has
to saddle up on the lifeforce and stay on the damn
thing till clarity does it's job. Is that possible?
I just started laughing, I wonder what the actual
perspective of the god power is. If I am going to
relate to it, besides just feeling it, it would be
nice to get a handle on what kind of character do
we have here? This conciousness must have some kind
of personality. Not just some distant bland power
or hideous strength. I think the real conciousness
might be cool. Not a religious dork, but an aware
power that likes to keep itself under wraps, but is
actually , well, like a boy scout! Trustworthy,
loyal, helpful,friendly, courteous,
kind,obediant?,cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and
relavent. I think the obediant part is why it keeps
itself under wraps, I am sure it is vulnerable to a
living being. But I wont mess with that. That is
too tricky and if I start to get close the power is
not without defenses and I'll find myself more
confused. Best of luck maharaji! what a life you
have! Saddle up.
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Date: Sat, Jul 12, 1997 at 10:52:24
(EDT)
Poster: Anon
Email:
To: what maharaji said
Subject: Re: friday night dec. 7 96
Message:
Forgive me if I am missing something but from
reading this Satsang (that you have quoted) I don t
find it conclusive that Maharaji is talking about
himself particularly more than usual. I fail to see
it as a revealing confession let alone the most
revealing confession .
Presumably you have quoted him verbatim - All I
derive from this is as follows, and I challenge
anyone to explain how they impute any other meaning
to his words. (The plain text is my precis of his
words and the parenthesis are my comments and the
Italics are of course, his original words)
just to stop, to stop this nonsense, this game,
this russian roulette you play with your head all
day long
We are playing a nonsensical game of Russian
Roulette with our heads. (Our predicament is more
serious than we may imagine!)
We should just stop it. (of course)
Do you know what it is like to live in sewage? I
did not live in sewage but I got mighty close to
it. I mean, ohhh, it's, horrible,horrible, the
stench, the dirt, the filth, EVERWHERE. It is
horrible, and believe me I know you are afraid of
sewage, and you should be. But, there is another
kind of sewage that I know of. Because sewage,
actually, left alone, can sort itself out. But the
human sewage of the mind, there is no bacteria for
it. The sewage, can be thrown in the ocean,so far
it is not in giant quantities, if may be able to
perculate and filter itself out. But the human
sewage of the mind, there is no ocean that can take
that. Human sewage can be thrown in rivers and it
will carry it away. But, the mental sewage, there
is no river that will carry it, there is no
bacteria that.will eat it, there is no leach field
that will clean it.
He did not live in sewage but has been close enough
to know it is unpleasant. (presumably this is the
bit that suggests to you that Maharaji is talking
about his own brush with the Mind- isn t it rather
a tenuous link between his words and such a
conclusion?)
Sewage is biodegradable.
Mental sewage is not.
(scary stuff, this mental sewage..again his tone
alone is probably enough to impress one that there
is truly something lurking within to be afraid
of)
And what is it? That anger, that fear, that
doubt, that darkness that the human being is
constantly plagued by, and has placed himself in
that place.
He describes mental sewage as a place of anger,
fear and doubt where human beings have put
themselves. (Arguably anger ,fear and doubt are
natural responses and defence mechanisms which thus
have their place as a valid and God given part of
our human nature- anyway is he saying he has no
anger, doubt and fear?)
To doubt, to doubt where there can be clarity,
where there should be clarity, my god, talk about
the ultimate sin, here is one.
Where there should be clarity, where there should
be light, there resides darkness, now that's a
crime, where there should be joy, there is sadness,
where there should be clarity, there is doubt.
Where there should be love, there is hate, where
the person, should be embracing the moment called
now, the person is stuck in yesterday, Where the
person should be free, the person is caged,
imprisoned.
It is a sin and a crime that ,where there should be
clarity, light, love, joy and living in the
present, there is doubt, darkness, hate, sadness
and living in the past instead.
(Again, are not doubt, hate and sadness natures
warning signals that something is wrong, and/or
symptoms of social disease? It is simplistic and
not particularily constructive to propose that
Maharaji s path of knowledge will wholly address
all these problems)
You know, the bars made out of metal can be cut.
And thus a prisoner can escape from a prison, but
the bars, of the anger, and the fear, and the
doubt, and the darkness, there is no blade manmade
that will cut it. And it is the prison of the worst
kind. Where there should be consciousness and
consciousness has no place.
Man cannot extricate himself from the dreadful
unconscious prison of his own fear and anger.
(My experience is that we do have tools to
extricate ourselves from our fears and psychoses;
sure we have a long way to go, but do Premies
really display such enlightened behaviour that
marks them as being freer than the average person
from such afflictions? I think not, and often it
would seem that they suffer more fear and anger and
arrested development than the average person)
I'm talking about life, the promise, the
possibility in this garden to have spring forever.
There can be an eternal spring in this garden of
life . (What evidence is there of this? The picture
on the front of the Jehovas Witness rag, The
Watchtower )
I'm talking about to be fulfiled and to know,
not just believe, you are fulfiled. Not somebody
comes along and says now you are happy, but to be
happy because you ARE happy. Not because somebody
comes along and says now you don't have any doubts,
but to not have any doubts because you are
SATURATED with clarity.
We can be fulfiled through certain knowledge and
not just through belief or because we are told that
we are happy.
(99.9 % of people naturally prefer to be certain
about things! It is general knowledge that beliefs
and suggestions are not replacements for subjective
experiences )
This is how life should be, and this is how life
can be, and this is how life MUST be! And do you
know why? Because we are human beings, We are
alive, THESE are the gifts that were given to us,
by the very thing that put us on the face of the
earth.
In our life we should and must be saturated with
clarity for this is our heritage as living human
beings.
(I agree that clarity is a possibility for us
humans but I have experienced from giving Maharajis
Knowledge a good try that sometimes the feeling of
being saturated with clarity are a rather juvenile
delusion.)
I cannot ask you to do something that you cannot
do, I cannot ask myself to something that I cannot
do,
Maharaji cannot ask us to do something that he can
t. Neither can he put impossible demands on
himself-
( I suppose Maharaji himself could easily give up
relationships with the opposite sex, drink, worldly
pursuits etc. and live in the ashram too? Just like
he asked me to do. Moreover I suppose he too could
happily sit and listen to 5 months of Videos as he
currently asks of aspirants)
But to accept the joy in my life has to my
priority. That much, I know. That much, I
understand, I have nnnooooo problem with that,
none.
(Unlike most people?) Maharaji wants joy in his
life as a priority.
He has no problem with this.
What will be will be. Can I be afraid? Oh yeah,
I can paint a picture for myself that can be
frightening.
He too can ( if he will ) paint a picture for
himself that is frightening. ( I suppose this is a
reference to the fact that we are all capable of
being unneccessarily afraid of certain situations
that arise in life)
There is a simple feeling in me that is perfect,
It is simple. When I am in that one place within, I
rest, I become me, I become whole, I begin to be in
awe of life. My whole world becomes real and I
begin to be in awe of each breath I take within me
When in the place within (that feels simple and
perfect) he becomes wholly himself, and is rested.
He starts to feel that life is awesome as a result.
Additionally, his entire world becomes real
(sweeping statement!) and breathing also becomes
awesome.
When you take away the confident tone, or feeling
with which Maharaji delivers his words one is left
with less substance.
Indeed, a lot of what he says is perfectly common
sense and of no great news to most people. His
over-emphasis on the obvious woes of mankind and
the accompanying suggestion that Knowledge alone is
the answer to our problems makes little sense to me
so far. This is in consideration of the observed
effect that he has had on myself and others. Whilst
I appreciate the benefits of Meditation, I sense
danger in it s teaching being the preserve of one
man who considers himself the sole Master of the
subject.
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Date: Sat, Jul 12, 1997 at 14:52:48
(EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Anon
Subject: Re: friday night dec. 7 96
Message:
I have to agree. Tom, you might be absolutely right
in suspecting Maharaji's comments say much about
his own self-appraisal but I have to agree with
Anon that the revelations are unintentional. Face
it, there's no way either Maharaji or any of his
apologists would ever admit what your commom sense
dictates is obvious. I'm with Anon in that regard.
Maharaji's criticising you and me, not
himself.
By the way, it's refreshing to see Maharaji use
a dictionary for a change. Last time I looked he'd
defined 'sincerity' as 'having no doubts'. When you
fuck with the language you fuck with the software.
N'est-ce pas?
So how come you guys aren't tuning in to the
newsgroup instead of this hoary old thing? The only
posts there so far are mine and some junk mail. But
you know Tom, you're not going to be able to change
your tag each time you log in. Does that stifle
your creativity a bit, you decidedly 'poetic'
ex-premie, you? Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah!
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Date: Sun, Jul 13, 1997 at 01:50:19
(EDT)
Poster: future target
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: friday night dec. 7 96
Message:
Actually, I think you are right. He cant let go of
the above us thing. You have been hitting on
something else that I think I am finally getting,
JW mentioned it very recently in respose to you. As
I have been discovering it in my life recently, I
am calling it self respect. I feel a thread.
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Date: Sun, Jul 13, 1997 at 08:46:04
(EDT)
Poster: groveling slug
Email:
To: Anon
Subject: Re: friday night dec. 7 96
Message:
Hi Anon
I think it's revealing of how much I valued a small
amount of perhaps humility. Would you consider
weighing in on the subject of self respect, or
whatever, in regardes to my self-respect labeled
post that is in another thread.
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