Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 04:38:02 (GMT) From: Mike Fronke Email: None To: Everyone Subject: No, I didn't waste my time here. I said my piece. Message:

Don't want to rehash anything. I won't be visiting here any longer. Hope someone benefitted from my visits here. Maybe we'll see some of you at a future event. If not, take good care of yourselves. I wish you all good luck on your future endeavors. Just as long as they don't bring problems to my teacher. It's time to move along now. Shroomananda bids you adieu.

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 19:07:10 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: Mike Fronke Subject: 'Just as long as they don't bring problems to my-' Message:

have you ever considered the idea, Shroomanchew, that your 'teacher' has been sheltered from problems by his faithful premies far too long to benefit him? The guy has, some day, got to face up to the kind of real life that the rest of us lead. . . PS I wonder how many problems you've given him to think about? . .

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 14:00:39 (GMT) From: hal Email: None To: Mike Fronke Subject: No, I didn't waste my time here. I said my piece. Message:

All the best to you Mike. I know you profess that you enjoy the scene at present but if you ever need to break free then I'm fairly confident that even those here who have engaged in heated dispute with you, including myself,will be available to support you. Namaste, Steve

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Date: Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 05:10:33 (GMT) From: ExTex Email: None To: Mike Subject: Ditto...w/some o dem luv vibes! (nt) Message:

nt

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 05:03:01 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Mike Fronke Subject: Do you know how alone you really are? Message:

Reading your farewell, Mike, made me a little sad. No, honestly. It dawned on me that, when it comes right down to it, you've got one one to really talk to. You can't talk with us without keeping up this ridiculous guard -- the one that makes people so readily despise you here, all we see is this shield of willfull disregard for all of the nuance of our shared experience. It's as if you've stripped away ever last harmonic of a tone, all the subtle variances, and are simply uttering one constant, uninteresting pitch. But you hvae to do that because you can't possibly afford to open up here. You know that, we know that, everyone knows that. But then here's the thing -- you can't very well talk with premies either! You can't get into any deep conversations, like really trying to put your cards on the table and discuss yourself, life, etc., because there are just too many doubt traps and too many woefully untethered,loose ends in the 'Maharaji Saga' (before your time, at least, he used to riff forever on that word, 'Saga'. Even then I kind of found it a bit wanting but it was always stupid.) You guys can't talk openly with each other anymore than you can with us! And so you adopt an attitude that adapts to that kind of avoidance. It's not so hard because it's not as if most people go around talking philosphically that much these days anyway. But the problem is that you do think philosophically -- in a weird, twisted cult way -- all the time. That's what all that guru shit's about. But you just can't talk with each other openly about it. Can you? So, maybe you guys are more ghostlike than I'd earlier imagined. Honestly, what do you think? Huh, Mike?

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 17:29:31 (GMT) From: Roger eDrek Email: drek@oz.net To: Jim Subject: Excellent point, Jim. And I was there recently. Message:

Indeed! I stuck with the cult for way too many years and only left recently in 1997 or so. From the beginning to the end there was the avoidance of being openly too human and sharing your personal joys and woes with other premies. Oh, it was sort of ok to share joy or woe with premies, but it always had to be reformatted into cult-speak where the source of joy came from Knowledge and Maharaji and woes came from the MIND. Yes, one becomes very isolated because eventually your entire being is saturated with this stunted world view that Maharaji imparts along with four simple meditation techniques. And, don't let me forget to mention that the Knowledge (the four meditation techniques) are FREE! Maharaji never charges a penny for his Knowledge. Nope, nothing. However the real cost is when the premie absorbs Maharaji's stunted world view and everything and I do mean everything is seen in terms of joy comes from Maharaji and trouble comes from the MIND. And this is how Maharaji enslaves people. This brainwashing is the sick and evil side of Maharaji's FREE Knowledge. And it would appear that Premie communities are being dissolved and dissipated as the cult moves towards satellite broadcasts. And Maharaji would prefer that premies don't socialize with each other. In fact, at a program in the 90's Maharaji pretty much discouraged people from socializing at programs by saying that such should not be the purpose of the events. Rather the purpose of the events should be to focus only on Maharaji. And it was around this time when videos of beach scenes and mountain streams with a voice over of Maharaji reading his most profound poetry first started appearing. It was so hokey with Maharaji reading his crappy lame-o poetry in his best cognac and cigarette tempered and whispered voice. As a seasoned premie who was obviously fatally flawed and not a true believer I was squirming in my seat with embarrassment that someone would publicly present something so awful. But it didn't matter to Maharaji because he would use the time that premies were watching these poetry readings to make his escape from the hall. Anyway, I think that Jim is correct in saying that Mike and many premies are alone and don't have anyone to talk to in a manner that really revs them up devotionally. Such heavy 70's and 80's devotional discourse is pretty much forbidden in the new kinder and gentler world of Maharaji where he is no longer God. For me the local video scenes, and especially the Introductory Videos, were completely devoid of any real substantive human feeling. The atmosphere was dry and completely stifled as everyone tried to adhere to the very carefully crafted program that was coming from Maharaji and Elan Vital. And we had some of those internal documents from Elan Vital that dictated how things should be. It's no wonder why Elan Vital had their lawyers to go after the ex-premies to get those documents off of the Internet. Finally, premies are all dressed up with nowhere to go. Such a pity. No wonder they come here to the Ex-Premie Forum where they can openly express themselves. There is Enjoying Life with Knowledge (ELK) where carefully screened and vouched for premies can submit a poem or an expression providing that such is acceptable within the guidelines. And, of course, the ELK editors might change the words, meaning, and content, but they have their reasons. No talk of Guru is greater than God going on there, no sir. Do they even talk about God on ELK? So, what is a good old fashioned premie to do except come here and satsang us to death. Whoa, I'm feeling sorry for these people. That's completely pathetic. Look at what Maharaji is doing to these people! It's sick.

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Date: Sun, Sep 17, 2000 at 19:22:01 (GMT) From: Tonette Email: None To: Roger eDrek Subject: So true, premies have become autistic! nt Message:

nt

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 19:55:02 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: Roger eDrek Subject: Jean-Michel *** BEST OF*** !!!(nt) ps, thanks Roj Message:

dghgf

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 07:58:46 (GMT) From: Tonette Email: None To: Jim Subject: That is so sad Message:

but incrediably perceptive and so very true. Maybe you should switch fields and go into counseling.

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 04:43:18 (GMT) From: Rob Email: None To: Mike Fronke Subject: Oh by the way, Message:

I was just kidding about emailing your stuff to EV, so you can relax. Good job they don't read the forum, though, eh? I think we all benefitted in some way, if only to be thankful we have freed ourselves from the mindset you appear to be in. Seriously though, I wish you God speed and may you ultimately find the Truth you obviously crave.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 23:36:33 (GMT) From: Jerry Email: None To: Rob Subject: What a bullshit artist! Message:

He'll say fucking anything, won't he? Thanks, Rob. That was precious. Shroom talking about how he finally has a place to spend his precious time (not here, of course), speaks volumes of where this fucker is at. Not a bone of sincerity in him. Shroom... fuck you.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 06:21:17 (GMT) From: Shroomananda Email: None To: Rob Subject: Do you want me to give the FA my address and Message:

phone number too? That way you can get them from the FA and publish them here. Okay, Rob, you've had your fun. You've outed me. I could care less. You want to waste your time some more? I thought you had some morals. Oh well. I should have known better. Yes, my name is Mike Fronke. I live in San Diego. I am a person who has received Knowledge from Maharaji. I practice it and I listen to him. I'd post my picture but I don't have a scanner. Any of you exes who are posting anonymously want to come out with your real names? Be sure to tell Rob or the FA so that he can publish them. Or better yet, do it yourself. You'll feel much better. Of course, you could always give Maharaji another listen. Or practice Knowledge. That would be an even better use of your time. You really are a small-minded person, aren't you, Rob? But that's OK. I meet people like you all the time. Even if you found out where I live, I can deal with someone like you. Shroomananda is dead. Rob killed him. This is his last post. Satisfied, Rob? Want to come to his funeral, Rob? Just tell me the time and the place, and I'll be there with his body. You can bring some flowers. So that you can pay him your respects. And I can pay mine to you. I'd suggest some pansies, Rob. They kind of fit your style.

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 04:27:28 (GMT) From: Rob Email: None To: Shroomananda Subject: I think you scored an own goal there, pal. NT Message:

nt

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 00:19:46 (GMT) From: Internet Phone Search Email: None To: Shroomananda Subject: Is that the San Diego branch of the Shrooms? Message:

It's so nice to meet you in person.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 13:56:18 (GMT) From: Yves' siamese brother Email: None To: Shroomananda Subject: How come Miss Piggy is still here? Message:

I thought you said you had left. I see you were wrong when you said that. As everyone know, 'Right is right and left is wrong.' Right?

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 08:05:25 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Mike Fronke Subject: Question Mike Message:

Hi Mike, It's not so hard to use your real name is it? Well done. I don't know if you noticed, but when you posted as Shroomananda you indicated that you posted here because you liked to discuss your master and his 'knowledge' I asked you a question, but you didn't reply, so I thought I'd ask again. Here's my original post. Hi Shroo, I've not had much chance to look in on the forum recently, but I couldn't help but notice your post claiming you like discussing your master and his 'gift'. I've not been following your posts, but my experience tells me you'll dodge the question, but what the hell, I'm an eternal optimist (you have to be to follow Maharaji as long as I did). Anyway, here's your starter for ten points. I've got a book published by Divine Light Mission, called 'Eternal is He, Eternal is His Knowledge'. In the back of the book are lots of Indian poems, supposedly written by 'Saints'. One of them, describing the 'Perfect Master' goes something like this: 'I found the greatest of fortunes when I met my Satguru. All my troubles disappeared from mind. He has set me free from the bondage of life and death, and saved me from the cycle of rebirth.' Something about his lotus feet that I can't remember, then... 'Truly his importance is greater than God.' What I'd like to know Shroo', is what do you think of the poem, particularly the last line. I'll gladly answer any of your questions in return. Anth (still stuck in the cycle of birth and death)

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 11:11:50 (GMT) From: Mike Fronke Email: None To: AJW Subject: Answer to Anth Message:

Since you've asked so nicely, I'll answer. First of all, what do I know about God? I don't know about God. I don't know who I am, let alone God. In the scriptures, doesn't it say that God is infinite, beyond our mind, etc.? Are we talking about an infinite spirit that is eternal and that is everywhere including within me? All I know is that I was looking for something. I wanted to know the fundamental questions about life. Who was I? Who was God? What was life all about? I was not looking for a teacher or a 'Satguru'. I just wanted to know. But right before I heard about Maharaji, I sort of gave up. I told myself that I guess you never find out. You just make the best of it. Try to live a good life. Meet a nice woman, settle down, have a family and then when you're all done you die and then you find out. I did get into astrology right before Knowledge. It made sense that if God existed, he wouldn't just give you one shot and then poof, either heaven or hell. Why were people born blind or disabled? Why did some people live in poverty all their lives? Karma made sense to me. So I was determined to do the best I could with my life and maybe God would grace me. I didn't really want a teacher. I thought that I could do it myself. Anyway, to make a long story short, I heard about Maharaji, decided to investigate if only to eliminate him as a possibility, and when I finally was told I could receive Knowledge, I was prepared either way. If the Knowledge was real, then I had my answer. If not, then I could move along. I really had nothing to lose one way or another. I really didn't feel anything about Maharaji, good or bad. I did have a few pretty incredible experiences while I was aspiring but I withheld judgement until I received Knowledge. That was the test for me. All I really know is that before Knowledge, I didn't know what life was all about. After Knowledge, it really didn't seem important to know what life was about. I felt peace. I saw light within me. I was totally prepared to move on if Knowledge didn't work for me. But it did. I still don't know who God is. I don't know who Maharaji is. I don't know who I am. But I feel something now and I don't feel like I'm missing anything. I love to listen to him. While going home from my first satsang event where I had seen a video of Maharaji, I told myself that that guy knows something. That hasn't changed for me. He knows something. Is he greater than God? Beats me. Is he Satguru? I don't know. That's what I find so hard to understand with many I've seen here. Why would anyone believe that he is the 'Lord of the Universe' in the first place? How could you and the others here even judge that? To me, he showed me something peaceful, loving and joyous within me. Isn't it just a concept to say that he is the Lord or Knowledge takes me to God? Maybe it does, but how can a finite, mortal being know one way or the other about God or who is greater than God or who the Master is? It says that by their fruits you will know them. Knowledge is the fruit. It is either peaceful or it's not. You either enjoy it or you don't.

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 08:15:36 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Mike Fronke Subject: Thanks Mike Message:

Hi Mike, Thanks for your thoughtful and honest answer. I'm surprised you had the courage to address my question directly too. Most premies dodge them. So, from what you say in the last paragraph, the bit where you actually answer what I asked, you wrote, 'Is he greater than God? Beats me. Is he Satguru? I don't know.' Mike, what you're saying to me here, sounds like you believe that this bloke in Malibu, with a private jet, who tried to close all our websites down a few weeks ago, may be greater than the Creator of the Universe. How do you think that sounds to a sane, objective, normal person, or even to a psychiatrist? In the first paragraph you say you don't know who you are. Then you tell me maybe you still believe some of the stuff about Guru is Greater than God, and Satguru and all that. Obviously, if you're a premie, these subjects have some importance in your life. Just like they did, and still do in my life. So Mike, why don't you do yourself a favour? Why don't you just think about things objectively for a few minutes? Because there is a perspective, where everything makes sense. Try looking at our situation from this perspective. Shit, you can always go back to the old one if you don't like it. But I suspect that in your heart you know the truth already- which is that nobody ever goes back, once they've seen it all fit into place. It's time to look at things a fresh Mike. Life will still be there. You’ll just see things a bit differently. It’s a breath of fresh air, honest. sincerely, anth ginn

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 18:55:32 (GMT) From: Scott T. Email: None To: Mike Fronke Subject: If a hole became a molehill. Message:

So, you wanted to know the fundamental questions about life. Who you were? Who was God? What was life all about? And then you met your teacher, your Guru Maharaji. And in answer to AJW's question you begin by responding: 'I don't know about God. I don't know who I am, let alone God.' Priceless.

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 04:33:54 (GMT) From: Rob Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: Dave, this is one for your new page. NT Message:

nt

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 17:31:18 (GMT) From: Nigel Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk To: Mike Fronke Subject: Amnesia Message:

Why would anyone believe that he is the 'Lord of the Universe' in the first place? How could you and the others here even judge that? OUR LORD IS THE MAKER OF ALL THINGS CREATED HE KEEPS THEM AND BRINGS THEM BACK HOME TO HIS WORD OUR LORD'S THE SUPERIOR POWER IN PERSON I BOW DOWN BEFORE SUCH A WONDERFUL LORD... Straight answers, Shroom: Did you used to sing this song..? If so, was it: - several times? - one thousand times? - maybe every night, year in, year out for a decade or more between the end of satsang and prostrating yourself before his picture? (1) Did you believe what you were singing? (2) Would you feel happy singing it again if The Maharaji advised it would be good for your practice of The Knowledge? Posing a simple question to you is a bit like trying to shovel wet spagetti up a wild-cat's arse (not that you'd want to...) But guess there's no harm in trying: it is the things you fail to answer which, for me, are the most instructive.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 20:00:42 (GMT) From: Mike Fronke Email: None To: Nigel Subject: I never sang that song, Nigel. Message:

I received Knowledge on May 2, 1982 in a Los Angeles ashram. I did try to sing along on several occasions in Miami at a big event but I didn't know the words. My point is that even if I believe that Maharaji is the Lord and he showed me God within myself, does that make it a fact? Can anyone know one way or the other? If God appeared to me, what would he look like? If he had a face and a voice, how would I know he was God? If he was just a big white gob of energy, how would I know? To me, it boils down to devotion. How much do I love my creator? Before Knowledge, I loved God but in a kind of vague way. After Knowledge, my love has increased. It is more focused. It is more grateful. It is more peaceful. Do I know God? No. But I do feel much love for Him. I attribute that to Knowledge and to Maharaji. He awakened my thirst. And helped me to quench it. And continues to do so.

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 20:02:29 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: Mike Fronke Subject: WHO are you trying to devote yourself to, Mike? Message:

. . Would the (real) Lord of the Universe (if such a creature exists) want you to humiliate yourself at the feet of the like of Mr Rawat? If so, WHY? . . .

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 16:09:09 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Mike Fronke Subject: U could say the exact same thing about a labotomy Message:

This is particulary rich, Fronke: All I really know is that before Knowledge, I didn't know what life was all about. After Knowledge, it really didn't seem important to know what life was about.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 15:28:42 (GMT) From: Way Email: None To: Mike Fronke Subject: To Mike Fronke Message:

Mike, I have followed your posts here. To be frank, I was nearly always disgusted by your posts as Shroom. There was a basic dishonesty to them. It was combat, not communication. Your post above, about the outing of your name, is still very combative against Rob, and still very Shroom-like. But this one. This one is a little different. There's very little to object to here, in your answer to Anth's question. People want answers, naturally enough. People want comforting, naturally enough. People must grapple, some way or another, with the hardships of human life. We learn, eventually, to give up. What else can we do? We can't make life different than the way it is. Reality always wins. No exceptions. So we accept. Eventually. But the battle is not yet done. We can accept grudgingly and bitterly, or we can accept peacefully. Not till we accept peacefully is the work done. You say of all this yourself in your post. And I concur. But I must defer my agreement in regard to the need for a teacher. The true maturity is never found in life, as long as we give credit for our own connection to our inner truth to some other human being. This is not the way of life. This is not the hard reality of life that every person must learn to accept. This is not the true surrender. A teacher always remains a crutch, a third party, a stranger outside our door. We can never pranam to that stranger and keep hold of our own integrity at the same time. To reach him, we must leave our true home, our own life. The human guru takes on too much. Too much power over other people's lives. He makes mistakes, he is bound to make those mistakes, and his foolish followers will suffer the consequences. This has happened with Mr. Rawat, and his premies. But even more, the human guru is bound to fall, because he has arrived where he should not be. And this too will happen with Mr. Rawat. It is a sad mistake that premies make, when they say 'Maharaji showed me...' Mr. Rawat has nothing to show. It is not by his grace that a human being attains peace within and peace without. It is by the inherent grace built in to this life, built there by God or by nature, whichever term you prefer. It is there within you. Rawat neither put it there nor revealed it. Rawat does only two things: he teaches four meditation techniques, and then he takes the credit. By only obection to you, Mike, is that you give him that credit. You say he knows something. I say he doesn't know enough, he doesn't know how to live this life honestly, something we all must do.

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 08:15:25 (GMT) From: Tonette Email: None To: Way Subject: That was an incrediable post nt Message:

nt

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 15:14:48 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: Mike Fronke Subject: You're still a Shrew... Message:

Why would anyone believe that he is the 'Lord of the Universe' in the first place? How could you and the others here even judge that? To me, he showed me something peaceful, loving and joyous within me. I You fucking, fucking douchebag. How many times did YOU sing 'The lord of the universe has come to us this day?' Well maybe never. That was before your time. But the rest of us sure sang it enough. It was one of the cult staples. As far as the peaceful, loving joy inside, you sure don't seem to demonstrate it here. You're a liar and fraud just like your master. I'm glad Rob outed your silly ass...

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 11:26:18 (GMT) From: salam Email: None To: Mike Fronke Subject: I must say that I do have more respect Message:

for anyone that posts under his real name. Not everyone post anonymously on this forum. p.s. by the way, where is the funeral and what sort of flowers did shroom like?

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 08:18:26 (GMT) From: Tonette Email: None To: salam Subject: I say once a shroom always a shroom nt Message:

nt

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 17:25:16 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: Tonette Subject: You mean he is a Mike Shroomji?..nt Message:

nt

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 06:49:02 (GMT) From: Tonette Email: None To: Shroomananda Subject: Promises, promises...yeah right , see you're still Message:

here

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 06:29:00 (GMT) From: ExTex Email: None To: Shroomananda Subject: Do you want me to give the FA my address and Message:

Wait a minute, let me get some champagne....and a box of kleenex for you. My Pogues tapes are great to dance to! This could be wild. Oh and my real name is Lee Harvey Oswald, aka Alex Hidell! Whooo-hooo!

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 06:01:53 (GMT) From: Tonette Email: None To: Rob Subject: Oh that's FUNNY!!!! Message:

Where do you find this stuff? Do you think Shroom is busy trying to find an exit therapist? That is, counseling for his untimely divorce from this forum. BTY thanks for defending me from that guy. He gave me the creeps.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 05:24:36 (GMT) From: baby schroom Email: None To: Rob Subject: are you wasting your time here? Message:

wasting my time ? it's my time..now isn't it.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 06:02:37 (GMT) From: ExTex Email: None To: baby schroom Subject: are you wasting your time here? Message:

Like brother, you are so in your mind. haven't you realised that time is just a CONCEPT? Can YOU really have time? Only the Lord Of The Entire Universe has time. HE has it on his top-of-the-line ROLEX WATCH!

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 05:54:55 (GMT) From: Your ass is yours Email: None To: baby schroom Subject: so why do not you sit on a hot pocker..nt Message:

nt

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 07:00:12 (GMT) From: baby schroom Email: None To: Your ass is yours Subject: so why do not you sit on a hot pocker..nt Message:

what a hot pocker ?

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 05:38:43 (GMT) From: Scott T. Email: None To: baby schroom Subject: so why do not you sit on a hot pocker..nt Message:

Baby: I think he meaans a 'Hot Pocket,' which is a convenience food you heat in a microwave. They're pretty good, but not after they've been sat on.

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