Date: Mon, Oct 23, 2000 at 22:31:55 (GMT) From: Michael Dettmers Email: dettmers@gylanix.com To: Joe Subject: Another Question for Michael Dettmers..... Message:

Joe, I think I captured all of your questions. Did Maharaji really believe that darshan removed karma? Maharaji tended to dismiss accepted spiritual concepts like “karma” and “reincarnation” to name but two. His claim was that knowledge took you beyond all such concepts. I never heard him say that darshan removed karma. Did he talk about the benefits a devotee would receive from having darshan? He did say, always in the third person, that Maharaji’s darshan was the greatest gift that can be bestowed upon a devotee. Did he ever talk about the number of people who fainted in darshan, and whether that was real or not? His concern in this regard was that they be taken care of (i.e. don’t let them fall and hurt themselves). The darshan recovery room was created for this purpose. Did he talk about his experience while GIVING darshan? Not that I am aware of. Did Maharaji see darshan as a source of MONEY, and did he engage in the practice partly out of the need to raise money? I had many conversations with Maharaji about money, but I never heard him even suggest that he give darshan to raise money. Did Maharaji ever discuss festivals as also being a source of income? Maharaji pretty much left the organization of festivals to the organizers. I remember one incident in the late 70’s, when he got involved in reviewing the proposed budget for one of the large festivals. He got angry because the organizers (me included) simply added up all of the projected costs including his accommodation and transportation, and divided that number by the number of anticipated attendees in order to arrive at a registration fee. That fee turned out to be pretty high (I can’t remember how much it was) and he demanded that we find a way to lower it. Michael

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 01:39:36 (GMT) From: Jennifer Email: None To: Michael Dettmers Subject: Who is Michael Dettmers? Message:

Don't everyone laugh at once. Michael, I looked for your Journey, but there wasn't one. Your posts recently have been fascinating. More so if I could place you in context, I'm sure. Can you or anyone tell me in a sentence or two your connection to Maharaji and Elan Vital? Many thanks, Jennifer

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 03:35:29 (GMT) From: Susan Email: None To: Jennifer Subject: Who is Michael Dettmers? Message:

He was the Guru's sort of right hand man from the mid seventies to early eighties. His 'service' as I understand it was basically running the financial side of the guru's operations. But probably he ought to explain what he really did. I get the impression he was sort of the guru's strategist, financial advisor, and sort of tried to keep the operations solvent and legal.

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 15:00:30 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: Susan Subject: Who is Michael Dettmers? Can u say 'henchman' ??? Message:

sorry nt

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 06:02:27 (GMT) From: Scott T. Email: None To: Susan Subject: Who is Michael Dettmers? Message:

Susan: I thought Michael was the successor to Bob Mishler, but then as a bongo I didn't pay much attention to those things. It appears that at a certain point he simply became a fee-based consultant performing some of the duties you outlined. --Scott

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 09:04:57 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: Makes a good title for a book......nt Message:

nt

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 03:38:11 (GMT) From: Jennifer Email: None To: Susan Subject: Thanks, Susan-nt Message:

Thanks, Susan

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 03:21:47 (GMT) From: janet of venice Email: Jai_Choix@webtv.net To: Jennifer Subject: question not well answered. ask mike who he was Message:

jennifer, you're not getting a true answer here. your innocent question unfortunately triggered some other people's strong feelings and instead of giving you the answer you deserved, you got answers that left you no better off than you were before you asked. since Michael is reading these posts with us, why not ask him what he felt he was, and what he did in his years with Maharaji? He would be the best one to answer you--as well as himself--on this. It has been said, somewhere, that the true test of how well one understand's a subject can be gauged by how one answers a child's question about it. If one finds one cannot explain it to a small child, then one has not understood it well enough. since you were a child when all this was happening around you, this should be an excellent moment, for both you and michael, as well as the rest of us, to hear what michael finds he can tell you about his role in all this.

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 03:46:09 (GMT) From: Jennifer Email: None To: janet of venice Subject: question not well answered. ask mike who he was Message:

I did ask Mike, but also opened it up for everyone else, too, in case he wasn't here tonight. :) Take care, Jennifer

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 03:32:43 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: janet of venice Subject: Janet, please see post below to Tonette (nt) Message:

fffffff

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 03:55:46 (GMT) From: Janet Email: None To: Jim Subject: read it b4 i decided to post N E way, mr.fussy Message:

are you a virgo??   and did you remember to take that nice warm enema i prescribed you, the other day? you still show significant symptoms of irritability

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 04:02:41 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Janet Subject: Will you give it to me, nurse? Message:

Sorry, Laur. But what are you doing reading this stupid ol' cult page of mine anyway?

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 04:21:25 (GMT) From: janet Email: None To: Jim Subject: sure. you'll like my technique, too.(OT!) Message:

i don't use the bag. I invented a home colonic setup I've shown to all my roomates, over the years. all you need is six feet of half-inch, clear surgical vinyl tubing, a bathtub, and one of those detachable shampoo sprays they sell in the discount stores. there's nothing quite so releasing and comforting when the world has kept you from really relaxing and leting it all go. I recommend it. Really, Jim.I do. in fact, I'm overdue, myself... ******************************** oh--and what am i doing here? same thing you are. thanks for the arena. is IS ok to spar with the owner, isn't it?? you like it, doncha.

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 04:18:57 (GMT) From: Tonette Email: None To: Jim Subject: The nt post or the one Message:

about the enema? And what does that have to do with what I wrote to you? I can't remember mentioning an enema, except of course, if this is your way of telling me to perhaps...'blow it out my ass?' Your favorite admirer, Tonette. ps after all it is your forum.

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 03:09:21 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: Jennifer Subject: I missed the other posts too Message:

Don't feel bad. I knew who MD was from the old days but would not have known otherwise. I saw many recent posts referencing Michael's posts here earlier this year or late last year but I missed them all. May have been during my uh, break last summer/fall. And as usual I am too lazy to search the archives. Initially a few months ago I was very skeptical but the thing is he was very well known and I am thinking that those reading this site would have let Michael know someone was impersonating him (if someone was.) And I think it's worth considering his posts, for historical purposes if nothing else. EV has done enough to try to bury the past. And a lot of what he says resonates with what other PAPAMs have said. - someone here coined that phrase: People around People Around M If some of the newer people had been subject to this much doubt and scrutiny on posts would they have lasted here I wonder? oh well i'm grumpy. Been babysitting a toddler cutting molars.

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 03:17:54 (GMT) From: Jennifer Email: None To: Selene Subject: My son has pink eye Message:

so I can relate Thanks, Selene. So I guess Michael is a Pam then and not a personal trainer (LOL) That Jim Heller...what in the hell are we going to do with him, anyway? Good luck babysitting, girl! Jennifer

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 03:27:05 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: Jennifer Subject: well the toddler is easier than Jim Message:

because I have this sneaky suspicion Jim loves all the ruckus. oops. He is being very grumpy and hard to deal with but I feel so sorry for him. The baby I mean, not Jim. Yeah Michael was one of those running the business end of the show. Something most of us never even considered at the time. I mean we thought M was Lord. Why would he need management? Did you ever get a chance to read Soul Rush? and please excuse my (ahem) computer illerteracy but I am going to paste this: http://www.ex-premie.org/papers/soul_rush.htm To be honest I can't remember if Michael is mentioned anywhere in this but it does help to explain the transitional stages at the very start.

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 03:37:10 (GMT) From: Jennifer Email: None To: Selene Subject: Soul Rush Message:

Thanks Selene I have been meaning to get around to Soul Rush. Is Michael in the book Who is Guru Maharaji? That is sitting downstairs and I could look in there, too. Jenn

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 03:39:06 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: Jennifer Subject: ugh I can't remember that WIGMJ Message:

I had to opportunity to participate in viewing it heheh a while back but was too busy. I know some others have it around. Anyone? personally I doubt anyone was mentioned but M and anyone famous he influenced at the time. Just a guess.

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 03:34:40 (GMT) From: Marianne Email: None To: Selene Subject: Soul Rush Message:

Hi Selene. There is information about Michael Dettmers in Soul Rush. I recommend reading the entire posted portions to everyone. Marianne

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 03:36:41 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: Marianne Subject: I was very moved by her writing Message:

I agree Marianne everyone should read that. liked your post above too!

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 04:09:50 (GMT) From: janet Email: None To: Selene and all Subject: where do i go to read it? is it on the site? Message:

or are you referring to the paperback book by sofia?? (who, by the way, came on to me in the basement of the Shelter in Denver, once, in 1974, while we were doing laundry after Amherst, and I've regretted that i didnt take her up on it, for a lifetime, since! she was loads more fun than pipsqueak ever was!

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 04:13:40 (GMT) From: Marianne Email: None To: janet Subject: It's on the site Message:

Hi janet. Go to the DLM/EV papers, to the section where you can download the site. Then you'll see the entry for Soul Rush. It is Sophia's book. Full of enlightening info, especially now. Marianne

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 04:45:45 (GMT) From: janet Email: None To: Marianne Subject: It's on the site-i can't download w/ webtv!! Message:

we on webtv dont have removable storage like you guys on pc do. we can, however uncompress zipped files online. i wonder if i can read it online page by page, or chapter by chapter. i have done it with other books that have been serialized on other sites.

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 04:59:02 (GMT) From: selene Email: None To: janet Subject: it is not a book it is a URL Message:

right here on the site. Once again: OK OK I'll try the html! soul rush

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 05:06:33 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: again Subject: ok I am going to do this until it works Message:

you can delete all of it FA but I'm mad at myself here: Soul Rush

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 09:03:15 (GMT) From: janet Email: None To: Selene Subject: got it. read it. wrote to mike. see above.tx Message:

asdfghjkl;

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 04:13:08 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: janet Subject: sophia and amherst Message:

My old home town, sort of. I lived there a lot from age 12 on anyway. yeah the book was in paperback. Is it still in print? the url here on EPO has excerpts: http://www.ex-premie.org/papers/soul_rush.htm

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 04:24:52 (GMT) From: a0aji Email: None To: ne1 Subject: sophia and amherst Message:

http://www.ex-premie.org/papers/soul_rush.htm This book (hardcover) was in the New Britain Public Library (in Connecticut) when I lived nearby - many years ago. I read the whole thing back when I first found it.

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 04:28:51 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: a0aji Subject: who is ne l? just kidding Message:

It's my browser or the rain. Thanks. I'll look for the book. I was just in East Windsor. And points north in Masachusettes. It was beautiful but made me sad. These extremes in weather may suit my moods but they are getting old!

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 04:31:16 (GMT) From: a0aji Email: None To: Selene Subject: ne1==anyone its a mnemonic (nt) Message:

nt

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 04:16:31 (GMT) From: Marianne Email: None To: Selene Subject: It was in hardback too Message:

I left my copy on Anth's table in Paris...... How's the desert, Selene? Marianne

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 04:25:01 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: Marianne Subject: it's been raining for days Message:

everyone is disoriented. The sirens are ringing more often than ever in my hood because the streets are flooded an no one knows how to drive in weather. But I LOVE the rain. So it's still in print? I'll go look on Amazon.

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 03:41:00 (GMT) From: Marianne Email: None To: Selene Subject: Thanks, Selene -nt Message:

xxxxx

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 03:29:00 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: Jenn a ps Subject: oh and ps Message:

I *did* answer you as 'true' :) as I could!!

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 02:33:05 (GMT) From: Tonette Email: None To: Jennifer Subject: Michael is M's right hand man Message:

But Michael left Maharaji, at least that is how he tells it. Michael got Maharaji to where he is now. Michael gave lots of 'devotional' satsang. Got alot of people to do otherwise what their common sense told them was wacked. Michael was a real 'inspiration.' Now Michael gets red carpet treatment here. Why? Don't know. If you ask me, Michael was part of what was wrong with the whole scene circa 1975-1985. Michael has no regrets. He ended up with a great career. Although, by his oun accounts, Michael knew Maharaji was a fraud much sooner than when Michael stopped talking that 'Lord of the Universe' crap. But Michael is okay now because he comes here with the real truth that Michael knew a long, long, time ago. He's sharing it with us now. Isn't that great? Michael is absolved according to EPO. Michael did no wrong and is never to held accountable! Food for thought, Tonette

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 02:22:48 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Jennifer Subject: Michael Dettmers was m's personal trainer Message:

You know, Jennifer, sometimes even a coach needs a coach. Well, Dettmers is responsible for Maharaji's workout program. Where you been anyway?

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 03:07:06 (GMT) From: Jennifer Email: garfarboleets@hotmail.com To: Jim Subject: Michael can you fit me in? Message:

Hey, Jim, how's it going? I thought you read my journey. You told me how much you liked it, remember? I was a kid when all this happened and I had/have premie family members. I didn't keep up with the Pams...didn't even know who they were cause I was too young. Also, like you said this was a rinky-dink cult in the scheme of things. It's not like Michael was on the cover of People magazine or anything (was he?) No slight intended, Michael, that's probably for the best. I can tell Michael is getting treated with some celebrity so I figured he was a big wig around Maharaji. But specifically who he was, I didn't know. I could use a personal trainer, however. Michael what is your schedule looking like this week? :) Charmed as usual, Jim Jennifer

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 02:38:50 (GMT) From: Tonette Email: None To: Jim Subject: She asked a sincere question Message:

She honestly didn't know. Why insult her? Want to venture how many people/sensitive souls you have driven from here/hurt by your comments? Saying Dettmers was Maharaji's 'workout coach' really does not illuminate what Dettmers really was. Where has she been? Probably living her LIFE! Yeah but it's your forum, I forgot, Tonette

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 03:29:52 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Tonette Subject: Tonette? Shut up, will you please? Message:

That was a joke, Tonette. You know, like in JOKE? Christ!

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 03:59:52 (GMT) From: Tonette Email: None To: Jim Subject: Beats 'fuck off' anyday Jim Message:

But no, I thought you were serious. For real. Sorry I missed your joke. We definately have different senses of humor to say the least. You don't get my humor and I have a hard time reading yours. Sorry. Not much I can do about it. But shut up is rude too! (joke, as in hardeharharhar)

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 04:03:36 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Tonette Subject: Please see my post above to Janet (nt) Message:

ffffffff

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 04:20:30 (GMT) From: Tonette Email: None To: Jim Subject: Don't miss my post right there too! nt Message:

nt ffffffuuuuuuccccckk uuuuuuu

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 02:03:47 (GMT) From: Marianne Email: MarianneDB@aol.com To: Jennifer Subject: Hi Jennifer (ot) Message:

Jennifer: I've lost your email address. Could you send me an email? I met one of your sister's pals. Marianne

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Date: Tues, Oct 24, 2000 at 02:56:42 (GMT) From: Jennifer Email: garfarboleets@hotmail.com To: Marianne Subject: Hi Marianne (ot) Message:

Super, Marianne! She will be happy to hear it. How are you doing, anyway? Oh, you can tell me in e-mail. garfarboleets@hotmail.com Tis the season in retail,so if I don't get to my e-mail right away, give me a few days, Jennifer

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Date: Mon, Oct 23, 2000 at 23:01:44 (GMT) From: Rick Email: None To: Michael Dettmers Subject: Another Question for Michael Dettmers..... Message:

I distinctly remember maharaji explaining at a program how knowledge would remove karma. I think it was between 1979-1981. He might have used a story from the Hindu scriptures to make his point, but I can't remember that part for sure.

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Date: Mon, Oct 23, 2000 at 21:53:51 (GMT) From: Lotus Eater Email: None To: Joe Subject: If I had to sit in a chair and wonder whether the Message:

next person through was going to take a bite out of my toe instead of kissing it, I'd want at the minimum a good tranquilliser, and perhaps a joint to relieve the tedium of not allowing my mind to wander off the platform of certainty of my worthiness to receive such worship. I imagine he feels he deserves all that hard earned money. Ah, the life of a devotee, where one is worthless dust at the feet of ones beloved, what else to do but buy some mink lined socks for the Lord.

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